Openly Homosexual Southern Gospel "Stars"
thetrumpetofthelord
known (alleged) openly homosexual southern gospel "stars" to be
reported about and promoted in their southern GOSPEL music newspaper
and on their Singing News radio charts?
Should Christian's boycott and protest against (alleged)openly
homosexual southern gospel stars? Should they try and stop them from
being invited to events?Churches?Ask that they not be regularly
written about in the Singing News Magazine?
Will pastors not speak up against Christians going to events where an
(allegedly)openly homosexual southern gospel "star" is on the program
or just might even be the headlighter?Shoudl an artist who cannot or
does not wish to give up the homosexual lifestyle be allowed to remain
in mainstream sg music?
CJB
same time? If it's open, there's no need for allegations, it is a fact. If
it's alleged, it is not proven conclusively one way or the other.
CJB
thetrumpetofthelord <trumpeto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71c9fa99.02063...@posting.google.com...
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KJCSmith1
>same time?
Hey you took my question...oh well...LOL
>If it's open, there's no need for allegations, it is a fact. If
>it's alleged, it is not proven conclusively one way or the other.
>
>CJB
Okay, I know the last couple of days I have been on an emtional rollercoaster,
but I keep finding my self lately agreeing with you alot....is the twilight
zone???
Kathy
CJB
foot in this NG. I don't think we're that far apart in our opinions on most
things. We've just clashed on a few "hot-button" issues. Some of that is
due to my writing style. I tend to be much less tactful and much more curt
when I write than I am in person.
CJB
KJCSmith1 <kjcs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020630171334...@mb-mi.aol.com...
ruth
|
With God, ALL things are possible. Mark
10:27
|
THE Old Man
start a smear campaign and gossip???"
CJB
lawsuit.
CJB
thetrumpetofthelord <trumpeto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71c9fa99.02063...@posting.google.com...
thetrumpetofthelord
> How can a person be openly homosexual and be alledgedly homosexual at the
> same time? If it's open, there's no need for allegations, it is a fact. If
> it's alleged, it is not proven conclusively one way or the other.
Re:
I often put the word "Allegedly" in things to keep from being sued.
Those who are in the know in sgm know if there is an openly gay sgm
star with his name and music plastered all over southern gospel music
and Singing News.
I hope you will understand why I asked the question the way that I
did.
Mikey Schmidt
***
CJB
Deanshafer
this was a news group to promote SG music.
I don't know who this guy is talking about and I frankly don't care. If we
spent as much time building up the body of Christ, as some people do tearing it
down, we would be a lot better off.
Before you write this stuff, ask yourself if Jesus would click 'send.'
What ever this "alledged" person is doing, writing about it is tearing down the
body of Christ. Jesus will handle it. He's a big Boy and can take care of
himself. If this person is living in sin, then Jesus will remove him. Doesn't
the bible say, "Your sin will find you out?"
As a member of the body of Christ it is our job, if we see a brother or sister
in sin, to bring them back to the fold. It is our job to restore the saint we
see in sin, not condemn him or her.
Let's cut this stuff out and get back to the job of winning souls. This stuff
is nothing but gossip and murmuring and that's a sin in my bible.
Homosexuality is no greater sin than any other. The bible says sin is sin.
There are no great sins or little sins. Sin is sin. But, we are called to
love the sinner and not condemn them. Jesus never condemn a sinner, so who are
we to condemn them.
Before I would believe any SG artist is homosexual, I'd want to hear him or her
say it.
It's sad that we live in such an age of slander. Our politicians are masters
at it and have taught the society well.
Trumpetofthelord is doing nothing for the body of Christ but tearing it down.
He is not a servant of the Lord, but a worker of iniquity. He's a troller, out
to keep desention stirred up and to keep us from the winning of soul. I
suggest we click the ignore button.
I'd love to see some reports about how many souls are being one. I got one
Sunday morning.
The E-Mail Traveler,
Dean
"Money talks, chocolate sings."
David Bruce Murray
"Deanshafer" <deans...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020701002927...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> Trumpetofthelord is doing nothing for the body of Christ but tearing it
down.
> He is not a servant of the Lord, but a worker of iniquity. He's a
troller, out
> to keep desention stirred up and to keep us from the winning of soul. I
> suggest we click the ignore button.
Write on, Dean. You are on target with everything you said. As a nation, we
have a policy of not negotiating with terrorists, for good reason. As a
newsgroup citizen, it's just as fruitless to feed a troller. I'll be more
than happy to send killfile instructions to anyone who uses Outlook Express.
PS. I spelled "right" as "write" on purpose.
--
David Bruce Murray / dmurray...@rfci.net
www.musicscribe.com / www.rfci.net/dbmurray
www.mp3.com/ssq / www.mp3.com/virtualvirtuoso
--- Making hay while the sun shines ---
THE Old Man
> I hope you will understand why I asked the question the way that I
> did.
> Mikey Schmidt
NO! I don't. If you are gonna sling mud and start/spread rumors and gossip
you should be straight enough to name names. If you're not then you should
keep your mouth shut!
Just Allan
Allan.
Paul Slopak Jr.
closet in SG to declare their homosexuality. This is as bad as the New York
Post declaring that the NY Mets have one homosexual player on the team We
make accusations and we think about the ones who act gay or walk gay, etc.
and then we speculate.
This topic is better off killed unless we have definite proof. Why
speculate?
I know of at least two that many of us would put on the top of the list but
we could be dead wrong. Lets drop it.
Norm Brown
Yaderp
James 3:1
1 John 5
and some are considered an "abomination" to God while others are not
included in that list.
Just my thinking on it, you understand.
--
Yaderp
Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.
Deanshafer <deans...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020701002927...@mb-fw.aol.com...
Tony Rush
repeatedly raked over the coals by Dr. Schmidt for my crude and
"hateful" remarks about Jake Hess or Howard Goodman. We've debated
over and over about those evil SGM artists who choose to pay their
bills in a capitalistic manner. We've even lambasted those greedy SGM
sharks who have buses they don't need.
But, it's ok to speculate about which SGM artists are homosexual?
Dr. Schmidt, I'm trying.....maybe I'll figure it all out soon. ;)
Tony
wvhu...@cognisurf.com
this was a news group to promote SG music.
HE WAS BANNED FROM OTHER SGM LISTS FOR THE SAME THING.
wvhu...@cognisurf.com
NAME ONE. If you can prove one, great. If you slander, watch for a
lawsuit.
THE ONLY WAY THAT HE CAN KNOW FOR SURE 100% AND PROVE THAT THEY ARE THAT WAY
IS TO HAVE COMMITTED THE ACT WITH THEM. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. ANYTHING ELSE
IS GOSSIP
TommyDale
> lawsuit.
>
> CJB
Good one! Of course, the only way he could PROVE it is by FIRST HAND
experience. Uh-oh! I don't think he wants to go there!
CJB
CJB
Yaderp <Yad...@go.com> wrote in message
news:afq0t8$97eh$1...@news3.infoave.net...
Kevin Hayes
You are such a hypocrite. When a news story was recently published making
homosexual allegations about a certain band leader from Liberty University,
a former friend of yours at that, you were the first in line to defend this
person. Kinda ruined your friends career didn't it. Now you're the one
making the allegations, "casting stones" for no other reason than to
discredit this person and to ruin this persons career. Does jealousy
motivate you? Although I certainly don't agree with the homosexual
lifestyle, I think your actions are just as deplorable.
"thetrumpetofthelord" <trumpeto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71c9fa99.02063...@posting.google.com...
thetrumpetofthelord
Re:
I could name one right now, and this person is so odvious that I bet
most sgm insiders know who I am thinking of, but I am not going to
publish his name,I have heard that he is not afraid to make his
homosexuality known publically , but where and when he might have made
any statements I am not sure of.I am not mentioning his name because
I do not wish to got to court, it is so boring and I have no money to
lose and if I did get sued my wife would kill me.
I'm sure that you will understand, but the best that I can tell one of
sgm stars homosexuality is so openly known even I know about it and I
never met the guy.
Mikey
***
THE Old Man
Apologies, but the debil made me doit.
Tony Rush
Re:
I could name one right now, and this person is so odvious that I bet
most sgm insiders know who I am thinking of, but I am not going to
publish his name,I have heard that he is not afraid to make his
homosexuality known publically , but where and when he might have made
any statements I am not sure of.I am not mentioning his name because
I do not wish to got to court, it is so boring and I have no money to
lose and if I did get sued my wife would kill me.
I'm sure that you will understand, but the best that I can tell one of
sgm stars homosexuality is so openly known even I know about it and I
never met the guy.
Mikey
REPLY: HEARSAY, HEARSAY, HEARSAY, HEARSAY
Dr. Schmidt, think about what you're saying. Do you honestly believe
that any SGM performer would be able to keep his income/job/revenue if
he openly professed to be a homosexual? The fact that you would
believe such a ridiculous story is cause for concern.
And before you twist my words out of context, I'm not disputing that
there are homosexuals in SGM. But, "openly professing homosexuals".
Please.
"even you know about it and never met the guy". And this was because
he openly professed it? Yeah. Right. :)
Tony Rush
Yaderp
so long?
--
Yaderp
Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.
Tony Rush <to...@therushs.net> wrote in message
news:b0293ff3.02070...@posting.google.com...
Rick Ryan
I've heard his own record company president name him as a fag.
You guys kill me. Trying to cover for these queers in the name of "the body
of Christ" is pathetic. When Jesus found thieves in the temple he didn't
quietly go away and say "we shouldn't drive them out because it would make
the unbelievers see our problems." No, he got a whip and drove them away, by
force. I'd say that "naming names" and boycotting media, concerts, etc. to
weed out the fags is the least we can do.
As for this argument about non-christians seeing us having these "unholy"
discussions, hogwash. No offense intended, but I'll win more people to
Christ by being open and honest with them than any of this "holier than
thou" pretense will ever get. We're not saved by works, we're saved by
grace. Come on guys, get real and let's try and help root out the evil
that's so permeated the SG industry for far too long.
"thetrumpetofthelord" <trumpeto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:71c9fa99.02070...@posting.google.com...
KJCSmith1
>
>Apologies, but the debil made me doit.
>
LOL....no apologies necessary, I needed a laugh today.
Clarence Grigsby
him a "fag". Rick has also told us that this same record company
president is basically evil incarnate. So tell us, Rick, if what you say
about this person is true, why should we believe what he says about Kirk
Talley or anyone else?
http://community.webtv.net/ClarenceGrigsby/CLARENCEGRIGSBYS
http://community.webtv.net/ClarenceGrigsby/THEGRIGSBYGALLERY
Norman Graham
"Rick Ryan" <rick...@datrixnet.com> wrote in message
news:ywoU8.245509$_j6.12...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> "I've heard his own record company president name him as a fag."
>
reference to Ryan's
gossip was made in 1999 by the same Rick Ryan. The purpose of that post was
not to discuss gays but to attack the lifestyle of the record company
president whom Mr. Ryan now quotes as a reliable source.
Here's a portion of that earlier 1999 posting by Ryan.
"As far as I know the (record) label in question hasn't paid a single
royalty in who knows how long. The man in charge is a known boozer who used
to go on whiskey binges all the time. He's also a womanizer that's screwed
around on his past two wives. I've been on a road trip with him when he was
staying in the hotel with a young single girl, they weren't in the
room praying, while his wife was back home."
That's a great source for your gossip on gays Ryan. That earlier post and
your latest one
indicate you really enjoy spreading manure around.
KJCSmith1
>Talley or anyone else?
>
Personally, the only person I would believe on this subject is Kirk Talley
CJB
Chaplain, Mikey was referring to. He didn't say that Mr. White was right or
wrong.
2. Rick has been above board in this group, and has consistently stated
his disgust with certain aspects of the SG music industry. I don't think he
needs to be flamed for asking a question.
3. I think Kathy's post has some merit.
CJB
Clarence Grigsby <Clarenc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11025-3D2...@storefull-2135.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Rick Ryan
I have not made any assertions here. I questioned the original poster of who
he was talking about. Try READING my posts before you flame me, please.
As for Kirk, Chris White made the assertion I mentioned about 16 yrs ago.
This was before Talley was signed to his label. White is a scumbag that has
no business in SG either (my opinion), but I suspect that what he said was
right in this case. Have you even ever been around Talley, except to gherm
around his product table at a concert asking if he remembered you fifteen
years ago when you waved at him as he got in his car?
The intention of my statement was towards the chickens in this newsgroup
that wanna talk dirt but refuse to name names. My comment stands. Faggots
have no place in gospel music. NONE. If you see evil, you should do
everything in your power to root it out. You should never turn a blind eye
just because it doesn't affect you, personally.
"Norman Graham" <ngra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:ERqU8.65143$op.64...@read2.cgocable.net...
Rick Ryan
and comprehend what they're reading.
"CJB" <belle...@citynet.net> wrote in message
news:3d225...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Rick Ryan
"KJCSmith1" <kjcs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020702194936...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Rick Ryan
"Clarence Grigsby" <Clarenc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11025-3D2...@storefull-2135.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Norman Graham
> I have not made any assertions here. I questioned the original poster of
who
> he was talking about. Try READING my posts before you flame me, please.
>
what I wrote flaming. . I simply brought up what you posted in 1999 so this
newsgroup would understand the background of the situation. In my view
naming someone and asking if he is gay or a bigot
or an ex-convict is as bad a stating it because it still spreads malicious
gossip. Mikey Schmidt already stated he was not going to name an individual
so your question to him served no purpose other than to put someone down
without any justification. To make it worse, your suspicions on someone's
lifestyle is based on the words of someone whom you said cannot be trusted.
This will be my final post on this topic.
KJCSmith1
Why would I do that?? Very simple I have known Kirk for many years, and I
would trust his word over someone's (like yours) that I don't know.
SuthrnGosplLover
Music being homosexual. And the nerve of Rick Ryan to publicly bash Kirk
Talley makes me enraged.
Unless he has a black and white photo, he should never insinuate negative
things about anyone. Just because Talley never remarried, doesn't mean he is
gay, in my opinion, it means he is SMART!
There are lots of single men and women in the gospel music industry that have
to endure such crap as this just because they have chosen to remain single or
single again. Many are much bigger stars than Kirk Talley. I will still
support and believe in Kirk Talleys ministry. I have seen him communicate to
audiences in such a way, that only someone with a deep committed walk with
Christ could do. There are very few singers/communicators who can reach an
audience in southern gospel like he can.
I choose to believe that Rick Ryan's accusation is just a continuation to his
obvious dislike for Chris White, because Chris married his (Rick's) former
sister-in-law. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Kirk Talley, if you are getting these postings, whether you are subscribed or
someone sends you all of these, I am sure you are upset about this. But, KEEP
SINGING AND WRITING. I FOR ONE BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU DO.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING RICK RYAN SAYS.
Rick Ryan
with anything, he needs to see HIS RECORD COMPANY PRESIDENT. That is the
source of the statement. Some of you guys really should get your head out of
the sand. It's funny that you'd be dissing me over this. At least I have the
guts to use my real name when posting, coward.
And as for my "sour grapes", Chris White didn't marry my former
sister-in-law, innocently. He seduced then committed adultery with my former
sister-in-law. Then after he managed to bust up her family and steal her
away, he married her. Pretty christian stuff, ain't it? Whether you believe
it or not, I'm over the sour grapes. But now I refuse to sit by quietly with
these vermin that leach off the gospel. They need to be taken out of it and
get their lives right before attempting to "minister".
FWIW, if you guys will go back to my original response, you'll notice that
the purpose was to tell the poster to speak up. My whole point in this
(apparently useless) exercise is to tell you people to quit covering up for
evil behavior, just because it's "ministry" or it's somebody you've been a
fan of for a while. Let's get real for once.
You can close your eyes again, if you so choose.
"SuthrnGosplLover" <suthrngo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020703202626...@mb-ml.aol.com...
THE Old Man
THE Old Man
THE Old Man
I didn't mean the "art" work to look like something else.
My apologies.
dd
"THE Old Man" <dda...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:sjQU8.236$cA6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Just Allan
wrote:
>And as for my "sour grapes", Chris White didn't marry my former
>sister-in-law, innocently. He seduced then committed adultery with my former
>sister-in-law. Then after he managed to bust up her family and steal her
>away, he married her. Pretty christian stuff, ain't it? Whether you believe
>it or not, I'm over the sour grapes. But now I refuse to sit by quietly with
>these vermin that leach off the gospel. They need to be taken out of it and
>get their lives right before attempting to "minister".
Sadly, he will also get his. Of all the people I've known - or heard
of - that cheated and then married the one they cheated WITH... They
all eventually found that person later cheats on THEM.
It really is true - you reap what you sow.
Allan.
Rick Ryan
What's the point? (shakes head)
<G>
"THE Old Man" <dda...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:sjQU8.236$cA6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
G and B and J
gospel. I won't say any names either because I don't think anyone needs the
gore-y details!
"Norman Graham" <ngra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FfFU8.81210$Yt.33...@read1.cgocable.net...
Dr. Wayne Rowen lll
want to make money dude man they do not care if their singing news
magazine is filled with queers soon they will have southern gospel he
shes runnin around dude because money motivates the singing news they
publish groups who feed them money that is why southern gospel greats
like mikey schmidt and georgia never get mentioned because the singing
news will accept gays because they give them money these gay dudes
will remain southern gospel stars while the best artists like mikey
schmidt and georgia remain unmentioned dudes they did a big concert in
old town stone mountain ga to over a thousand people and the singing
news was not there to report it dudes that singing news is queer lovin
money mongerers
wayne rowen
suthrngo...@aol.com (SuthrnGosplLover) wrote in message news:<20020703202626...@mb-ml.aol.com>...
Rick Ryan
LOL
"Dr. Wayne Rowen lll" <kingjames1611...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:11fa6014.02070...@posting.google.com...
THE Old Man
"G and B and J" <gbob...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0PkV8.52386$N8.58...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> We all know that there are plenty of different kinds of people even in
> gospel. I won't say any names either because I don't think anyone needs
the
> gore-y details!
>
>
>
pointing but would it assume you are naming someone named GORE?
ruth
|
With God, ALL things are possible. Mark
10:27
|
Dr. Wayne Rowen lll
AND GEORGIA THEY HAVE NO STANDARDS THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY THAT IS
WHY THEIR PAGES ARE FILLED WITH DRUNKARDS DRUG USER DUDES AND HOMOS
WHO ALL PRETEND TO SERVE JESUS BUT THEY ARE MONEY HUNGRY FAKES
how was that ms lady dude
wayne rowen
"Rick Ryan" <rick...@datrixnet.com> wrote in message news:<P3qV8.135964$Ca2.7...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...
Tony Rush
> THE SINGING NEWS IS BIASED AGAINST GROUPS LIKE THE TRUMPET OF THE LORD
> AND GEORGIA THEY HAVE NO STANDARDS THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY THAT IS
> WHY THEIR PAGES ARE FILLED WITH DRUNKARDS DRUG USER DUDES AND HOMOS
> WHO ALL PRETEND TO SERVE JESUS BUT THEY ARE MONEY HUNGRY FAKES
> how was that ms lady dude
> wayne rowen
>
No, they're just biased against groups that have no business being in
a national magazine.
If you're going to make libelous claims, which groups are you claiming
are drunkards, drug users and homosexuals?
What exactly is a money-hungry fake?
Tony
garydw
ruth
Dr. Wayne Rowen lll
my thing but i will try harder to be proper gramatical ms ruthie lady
dad is the one who got all the smarts, and my brothers roddy and
kevin, i got to fix cars good
wayne rowen
Ruthfro...@webtv.net (ruth) wrote in message news:<4955-3D2...@storefull-2334.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> I apoligize, Wayne, for not being more specific. I meant using proper
> capitalization and punctuation. Using all caps just indicates shouting. =
>
>
>
> Group: alt.music.gospel.southern Date: Sat, Jul 6, 2002, 7:44am (CDT-2)
> From: kingjames1611...@yahoo.com (Dr.=A0Wayne=A0Rowen=A0lll)
> THE SINGING NEWS IS BIASED AGAINST GROUPS LIKE THE TRUMPET OF THE LORD
> AND GEORGIA THEY HAVE NO STANDARDS THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY THAT IS
> WHY THEIR PAGES ARE FILLED WITH DRUNKARDS DRUG USER DUDES AND HOMOS WHO
> ALL PRETEND TO SERVE JESUS BUT THEY ARE MONEY HUNGRY FAKES how was that
> ms lady dude
> wayne rowen
>
>
> --
thetrumpetofthelord
> kingjames1611...@yahoo.com (Dr. Wayne Rowen lll) wrote in message news:<11fa6014.02070...@posting.google.com>...
> > THE SINGING NEWS IS BIASED AGAINST GROUPS LIKE THE TRUMPET OF THE LORD
> > AND GEORGIA THEY HAVE NO STANDARDS THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY THAT IS
> > WHY THEIR PAGES ARE FILLED WITH DRUNKARDS DRUG USER DUDES AND HOMOS
> > WHO ALL PRETEND TO SERVE JESUS BUT THEY ARE MONEY HUNGRY FAKES
> > how was that ms lady dude
> > wayne rowen
> >
>
> No, they're just biased against groups that have no business being in
> a national magazine.
Re:
Funny how someone like me who performed to as many as 11,000 + people
( Gwinnett County Courthouse , Thanksgiving Day, for the Gwinnett
County Historic Society) at one time last year,Was on the lead story
for FOX 5 in Atlanta and TV 46 C.B.S. News in Atlanta,and was
interviewd by Steven K Helling of People Magazine and Elliot Kirshner
of 60 Minutes 2 , I was even mentioned on the front page of over 40
major newspapers last year including being mentioned in a Beth Warren
story on the front page of the Atlanta Journal, but yet you hint that
the Trumpet of the Lord is not be "worthy" of being "mentioned" in the
Singing News (which has about 1/10000th of the circulation of the
Atlanta Journal) which you call a "national magazine".
Danny Jones allegedly claims that he does not run stories about the
Trumpet of the Lord because he alleges that he never gets them and
that the Trumpet of the Lord allegedly has no fans,"( after over 250
concerts to date we have never been mentioned in the Singing News that
I am aware of) we run stories about groups who have fans". He also
claims that" buying adds and spending money of the Singing News does
not influence an artists presence in the Singing News"( ouch, the way
groups court the Singing News),and that the "Singing News does report
the news" yet when the Trumpet of the Lord made national news last
year in our public support of 4 time Olympic Gold Metalist Olga Korbut
and the Belarus -American Childrens Health Foundation I contacted Mr.
Jones and spoke to him myself and Mr. Jones declined to run a story
about the Trumpet of the Lord's public support of Olga.The Singing
News (so called) also allegedly declined to run a "NEWS" story about
the Kingsmen breakup.
I was a guest on the Jim Moss Good News Today show on GMT about two
months ago
( I was blessed to have played 6 songs on GMT), yet you STILL did not
hear a mention of me in the Singing News.20 years of ministering to
churches , we work hard to serve the Lord, not as pleasing MEN, but
GOD who trieth our hearts.
The point is that I do not believe that a group should have to "court"
the Singing News to make its press, but then again, I am not in charge
of what is put into the Singing News.
God Bless you all.
Rev.Michael Schmidt
www.trumpetofthelord.com
***
***
Dave Lee
>I was even mentioned on the front page of over 40
>major newspapers last year including being mentioned in a Beth Warren
>story on the front page of the...
I tell you, I read the Boston Glode and the New York Times, as well as others,
and I'm sure I would have noticed your name in one of them
KJCSmith1
>( Gwinnett County Courthouse , Thanksgiving Day, for the Gwinnett
>County Historic Society) at one time last year,Was on the lead story
>for FOX 5 in Atlanta and TV 46 C.B.S. News in Atlanta,and was interviewd by
Steven K Helling of People Magazine and Elliot Kirshner of 60 Minutes 2 , I
was even mentioned on the front page of over 40
major newspapers last year
>including being mentioned in a Beth Warren
>story on the front page of the Atlanta Journal, but yet you hint that
>the Trumpet of the Lord is not be "worthy" of being "mentioned" in the
WHOPEEEEEEEEEEEEE are we supose to be impressed.
> I am not in charge
>of what is put into the Singing News
Thank goodness, Frankly listening to you toot your own horn on the newsgroup is
quite enough....actually more than enough
Hank Gillette
wrote:
> Actually there are differences in sins.
>
> James 3:1
> 1 John 5
>
> and some are considered an "abomination" to God while others are not
> included in that list.
>
> Just my thinking on it, you understand.
One thing you wouldn't want to be: a woman in pants eating lobster.
--
Hank Gillette
ruth
Hank Gillette
Ruthfro...@webtv.net (ruth) wrote:
> It may just be a being a blond problem, but I don't get it? What is the
> problem with a woman in pants eating lobster?
>
Both eating shellfish and a woman wearing men's clothing are described
as abominations in the Old Testament. I was joking that doing both at
once would be abomination squared. And if those pants happened to be a
wool-cotton blend, watch out (mixed fibers in clothing, though not
described as abomination, was prohibited).
--
Hank Gillette
THE Old Man
"pants eating lobster. "--
Hank Gillette
Interesting. I've heard of man eating tigers but never a pants eating lobster.:-)dd
The Great Pumpkin
reluctantly, to address this "homosexual" business.
This is my first post. It seems that I have really decided to jump
into the fire, what say?
Who am I? 50 years old, married 30 years, 3 sons 27, 21, 16 (none
gay), college degree in specialized management, employed in the public
sector, previously in the private sector. Attended a technical
institution in the Atlanta area, later spent a short, horrible time in
a very liberal school of theology. Pastor of a a small independent
pentecostal church for a few years in the mid-seventies, later an
associate minister at a large denominational pentecostal church for
about 6 years, then holding no pastoral position for a while,
returning to associate ministerial position with another independent
pentecostal church. I have now returned to an associate ministerial
position in the original church that I pastored in the mid-seventies.
Very happy!
Now the commentary:
First of all, it is reprehensible for any so-called Christian to use
the term "faggot", which is a pejorative and is equivalent to the use
of the "N" word referring to African-Americans. I don't like the
homosexual community's subversion of the word "gay" for their
sexuality, but it's a done deal. Nonetheless, the use of faggot,
particularly in the way it has been used in this discussion, does not
represent a Godly view of a sinner. It seems to reflect more on the
users personal prejudices, which themselves arise from a sinful
nature, than from a concerned and loving spirit.
Secondly, I've known a good many homosexual men and lesbian women,
because in the businesses and agencies I've worked for, these people
are not screened out as candidates for employment. Most of these
people were not openly gay or activists; in fact, it surprised me to
find that some of them were gay when I was told. The fact is, all of
you probably know gay people in your work associations and even your
church associations, but you just don't know they are gay.
Third, I agree with the poster who said that not all sin is equal. To
be graphic, I think rape is worse in God's eyes than shoplifting.
After all, look at the comparative penalties in the old testament.
Many years ago, I knew a wonderful Christian young man. Eventually, he
embraced a homosexual lifestyle, which was tragic. But his family
disowned him. I went to them and reminded them that he was the same
wonderful young man that they had always known and that he hadn't
changed at all. They just knew something about him they hadn't known
before, that all of the wonderful things he was were still true, and
that his sexuality was only a part of what he was. Again, tragically,
he embraced and lives in a homosexual culture and is out of
fellowship. But his family repented of their rejection of him and
there is loving contact between them, which I think is important.
Many, no most, of the homosexuals I know are kind, gentle, loving
people. There is a considerable strain of promiscuity which is scary,
both naturally and spiritually, and more than one of them has died of
AIDS, which is also tragic. But I find it easier and more fulfilling
to look at these people as people, who are homosexual, rather than as
"queers" who happen to be in my sphere of associations. Every single
solitary one of them knows about my Christianity and knows that I view
homosexual behavior as a sin, but they also know that I care for their
souls and they respect that, really respect it. I feel that somehow I
must have done something right. They even come to me for counsel from
time to time even though they know I'm going to tell them the Truth.
I've seen a few gay-themed movies that present well the suffering that
gay people experience within a "faggot"-hating culture. It is a real
experience to sit in a theater with a group of gay men and begin to
understand somewhat how they feel regarding how they are treated.
Their activism seems more understandable when you begin to understand
the suffering.
I expect I'll suffer the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"
here, but I've never met a gay man who didn't wish he was straight,
not when you got right down to it. Even the more activists wish they
could have led a normal heterosexual life for their own sake and the
sake of their families, and many of them wish they could have had
their own children. I do not believe that gay people consciously
choose their sexuality, any more than I did. I didn't wake up one
morning and say, "Well, do I want to be gay or straight? Do I want to
have sexual feelings for men or for women?" I just found myself
attracted to women. You guys know what I mean. I don't know whether
homosexuality is genetic or environmental. Whatever it is, it is an
aberration, as Paul says, "Nature itself teaches you..."
As far as SGM artists who may or may not be gay: I also believe that
it was reprehensible to name the particular artist as possibly gay or
to repeat any rumors. This is gossip which the scriptures forbid and
it is cruel. Suppose that he is wired homosexual but he has chosen to
live a celibate Christian life. I think he is to be commended.
I'm reminded of the words of the great Christian Adela Rogers St.
Johns, talking about her alcoholic father, "Knowing men as she did,
Pearl Morton was able to show to me not a flaw, not a sin, not a
weakness, but a man's battle against his besetting enemy, baffling,
cunning, powerful. A temptation against which we must unite to protect
him. Above all, as a danger -- a danger, under which we must live,
against which we must watch."
Isn't that magnificent.
Not that it wasn't a sin or weakness, but that it held the character
of an enemy to be fought, by the sinner and by his Christian friends
helping him. So if the artist who was named is gay, I'm with him. My
prayers are with him that he continue to overcome (and what is
overcoming anyway if there's nothing to overcome?). Have any of YOU
who use the word "faggot" ever had to overcome the temptation to
homosexual behavior, that sin, that weakness, that ENEMY?
As far as me, I know a SGM artist who is gay. How do I know? I was
visiting a co-worker at his home. The co-worker is a young man who was
raised a Christian and who I sincerely believe is saved, but who is
struggling with his homosexuality and who came to me for counsel and
prayer. He is what they call "in the closet" which means that no one
in his family or associations knows about him. I saw some CD's by a
certain artist (not the one earlier named in these posts) and my
colleague began to tell me how he and this attended the same church as
youngsters and recently seen each other again. They hadn't seen each
other since their teen years, when they were somewhat friends. This
artist opened up to my friend about his own sexuality, because he came
to suspect that my friend was also struggling with some of the same
things. My co-worker, rather indiscreetly I thought, let me read some
of the email exchanges between him and this artist. After what I read,
there's no doubt. This is a name all of you would know. For him I
pray, because I know the battle he is fighting against his enemy. Both
of these young men are. But I would never, ever, ever name him or even
hint at his identity, age or anything else that would lead to
speculation. I have no, no, none, no interest, would find no
satisfaction, in telling his secret. What would be the point, except
to be the bearer of a juicy tidbit.
I am proud of these two for not giving in to their desires and living
in the homosexual world. I pray that I'm as victorious, or at least
that I fight as hard against my sins.
The Great Pumpkin
garydw
"The Great Pumpkin" <thefriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:debed0c1.02070...@posting.google.com...
Hank Gillette
"garydw" <no.spam...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
> You sound like a person I would enjoy calling a friend.
>
What Gary said.
--
Hank Gillette
Bolster
"Hank Gillette" <hankgi...@yahoo.com> wrote
> "garydw" <no.spam...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > You sound like a person I would enjoy calling a friend.
> >
>
> What Gary said.
And thank you for:
1. Not top posting
2. Not quoting a 9k message to add one sentence
Yaderp
--
Yaderp
Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.
Just Allan
Great Pumpkin) wrote:
>First of all, it is reprehensible for any so-called Christian to use
>the term "faggot", which is a pejorative and is equivalent to the use
>of the "N" word referring to African-Americans.
Negro? It's just a shortened form of the word, negroid isn't it? Or
maybe you meant the other version... Anyway, if it's "negro", that's
no more offensive than "caucasian".
>Secondly, I've known a good many homosexual men and lesbian women,
>because in the businesses and agencies I've worked for, these people
>are not screened out as candidates for employment. Most of these
>people were not openly gay or activists; in fact, it surprised me to
>find that some of them were gay when I was told. The fact is, all of
>you probably know gay people in your work associations and even your
>church associations, but you just don't know they are gay.
I'd suggest there's something wrong with these churches, if that's the
case. If a homosexual can sit in church year after year, and not feel
uncomfortable about their homosexuality enough to either leave or
change, sorry - that church is well and truly dead. Time to move on.
How sad the members of a church could know so little about each other
and be so detached from each other as to not know if others were
homosexual. That's not a church - that's a social group.
>Many years ago, I knew a wonderful Christian young man. Eventually, he
>embraced a homosexual lifestyle, which was tragic. But his family
>disowned him. I went to them and reminded them that he was the same
>wonderful young man that they had always known and that he hadn't
>changed at all. They just knew something about him they hadn't known
>before, that all of the wonderful things he was were still true, and
>that his sexuality was only a part of what he was. Again, tragically,
>he embraced and lives in a homosexual culture and is out of
>fellowship. But his family repented of their rejection of him and
>there is loving contact between them, which I think is important.
How sad. Their acceptance of his sin means he will probably never
turn from it. There are several instances in the Bible where people
are left to their own devices in the hope they will see their error
and return to a righteous stand. By the way, I agree there is a
difference in the level of sin. Jesus Himself speaking to Pilot,
referred to Judas as "having the greater sin". However, the final
punishment for all sin will be the same. And since homosexuality is a
sin - it's a ticket into the lake of fire.
>I've seen a few gay-themed movies that present well the suffering that
>gay people experience within a "faggot"-hating culture. It is a real
>experience to sit in a theater with a group of gay men and begin to
>understand somewhat how they feel regarding how they are treated.
>Their activism seems more understandable when you begin to understand
>the suffering.
These aren't movies - they're propaganda. Every minority group in the
world has these. What they choose to ignore is, just why does it seem
the entire world is against us? Usually the answer is because they
really ARE in wrong. Any supposed suffering is something they chose
to be a part of, by their choice of lifestyle. Change the lifestyle,
the suffering ends. Simple. Sounds heartless? Not at all. In fact,
let's turn it around on myself...
I was once an atheist. I didn't take drugs, etc. But I'd made a
simple choice not to be a Christian. By my own decision I was heading
to hell. By my own choice I was an enemy of Christ and I suffered the
consequences of that lifestyle. Broken relationships, etc. It's
called the wages of sin. I chose to be outside of God's protection.
So do homosexuals. The results of all our unholy lifestyles are the
very means God uses to turn us back to Him. One day I changed my
"choice". The same with homosexuals. They can also choose not to
live that life. When they make that change, they'll no longer be
receiving sin's wages.
>I expect I'll suffer the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"
>here, but I've never met a gay man who didn't wish he was straight,
>not when you got right down to it.
Sorry - but this is utter rubbish. What they wish for is for their
own rejection & persecution to end - and for their lifestyle to become
acceptable - not that they wish their lifestyle would turn to normal.
>Even the more activists wish they
>could have led a normal heterosexual life for their own sake and the
>sake of their families, and many of them wish they could have had
>their own children.
God help us. No... God help them.
>I do not believe that gay people consciously
>choose their sexuality, any more than I did. I didn't wake up one
>morning and say, "Well, do I want to be gay or straight? Do I want to
>have sexual feelings for men or for women?" I just found myself
>attracted to women. You guys know what I mean. I don't know whether
>homosexuality is genetic or environmental. Whatever it is, it is an
>aberration, as Paul says, "Nature itself teaches you..."
My goodness. No I don't know what you mean. You say you don't
believe it's a conscious choice in the first paragraph - and quote the
Bible stating the choice is even against the very nature of creation
in the last. It IS a conscious choice. Maybe some people are just so
dull in their thinking, that they're not aware of it. There are no
"born homosexuals". The Bible terms it, "burned in their lust one for
another". Even the very word homoSEXUAL states it clearly. A sexual
lusting for the same sex. David loved Saul's son. But they weren't
homosexuals.
"Attraction" is NOT the same as "lust". A man can be attracted to a
woman on a friendship level and also to another man the same way.
However, once you add the homosexual "act" to the friendship, it not
based on friendship, it is based on lust. Else we'd have a bunch of
gay people running around who weren't really gay at all, because they
never had sex with each other. Being gay means you HAVE SEX with the
SAME SEX. Not that you are attracted to the same sex. If it did,
we'd ALL be guilty of being gay at times.
If we shouldn't feel uncomfortable around homosexuals just because of
their sexual preference - what about those who enjoy the sexual
company of animals? If someone into beastiality was "kind, gentle,
loving person", why not form frequent friendships with them too. Hey
- invite them for dinner and let them bring doris the goat along.
After all, we had the homosexual over last week and his pal. Does the
idea of paling around with the animal guy make us cringe, but not the
homosexuals? What about the brother who has regular intercourse with
his sister? His TWO sisters? Mother and son? They're all
abominations - and no one is worse or better than the others. To
prefer one is to be a defender of them all.
I'm not saying I think we should burn all gays at the stake. But
neither should we seek out their regular fellowship. Tell them what
they need to know and let them come to church and get their lives
straightened out. If they show no interest, move on and check back
later. When they come in, then they can have all the fellowship they
like. Over the years there have been several EXhomosexuals in our
church. They were glad to be free from their dark and worthless
existance. If we'd all pussyfooted around the issue instead of
telling them what they needed to hear, they'd still be out there
contemplating suicide, changing partners every few weeks, catching
aids...
>As far as SGM artists who may or may not be gay: I also believe that
>it was reprehensible to name the particular artist as possibly gay or
>to repeat any rumors. This is gossip which the scriptures forbid and
>it is cruel. Suppose that he is wired homosexual but he has chosen to
>live a celibate Christian life. I think he is to be commended.
Rubbish. No one is "wired homosexual". No more than someone is wired
incestuous, or with a preference for animals, gum boots or letter
boxes. People rewire themselves according to their unnatural lusts.
And an unnatural lust is created when they think on it and turn it
over in their minds until it becomes a lust they simply must fulfill.
As a matter of fact, to "chose to live a celebate life" is direct
proof of that fact. If it wasn't possible to rewire one's self, it
wouldn't be possible to live a celebate life, since after all he can't
help it - he's "just wired that way".
Secondly, a house doesn't "wire" itself for electricity. It's done by
plan & purpose by an electrician. The only "electrician" that could
"wire" us at birth is God. God however is not the author of
confusion. He doesn't tell us homosexuality is a sin, then create
someone with those desires. This would make Him a perverted sadist,
not a loving Father. So anyone claiming such rot is a dispicable
liar, spreading a doctrine of devils.
>Not that it wasn't a sin or weakness, but that it held the character
>of an enemy to be fought, by the sinner and by his Christian friends
>helping him.
Yes. But that's someone who wanted to change. Patting homosexuals
(or any other sinner) on the head, telling them, "it's ok, it's not
your fault - you're just wired that way" helps no one. In fact it
condemns them to a prison they cannot escape, since after all - even
the christians agree I'm just born that way. So even God is against
me!
>So if the artist who was named is gay, I'm with him. My
>prayers are with him that he continue to overcome (and what is
>overcoming anyway if there's nothing to overcome?). Have any of YOU
>who use the word "faggot" ever had to overcome the temptation to
>homosexual behavior, that sin, that weakness, that ENEMY?
Personally, I don't agree with the use of the word either.
>As far as me, I know a SGM artist who is gay. How do I know? I was
>visiting a co-worker at his home. The co-worker is a young man who was
>raised a Christian and who I sincerely believe is saved, but who is
>struggling with his homosexuality and who came to me for counsel and
>prayer. He is what they call "in the closet" which means that no one
>in his family or associations knows about him.
This is the kind of wishy-washy christianity that makes me sick. If
you are a christian murderer - that is, you like murder, you continue
to murder people - and make no effort to stop murdering - you are not
saved. People can try and twist the words in the Bible around as much
as they like, but it remains fact. Until you turn away from your sin,
you are choosing to be the prisoner of it. If someone is a practicing
homosexual, they are not saved. Period.
Homosexuality is a sin. Incest between a mother and son/stepson is
sin. Paul mentions this in 1 Corinthians 5 and says to put away from
among them that wicked person. Not to forgive him, not to understand
him, but to put him away from them. He also says not to company with
fornicators and if any man THAT IS CALLED A BROTHER be such, not to
even eat with him. NO FELLOWSHIP. Paul even ask incredulously, God
judges those outside the church, but don't you know it's your
responsibility to judge those within your own congregation? Put away
that wicked man from among yourselves!
>This
>artist opened up to my friend about his own sexuality, because he came
>to suspect that my friend was also struggling with some of the same
>things. My co-worker, rather indiscreetly I thought, let me read some
>of the email exchanges between him and this artist.
They need to talk to their individual ministry, instead of sharing
secret emails in the closet. If they can't trust their ministry, they
need to find a church where they can.
>I am proud of these two for not giving in to their desires and living
>in the homosexual world. I pray that I'm as victorious, or at least
>that I fight as hard against my sins.
>
>The Great Pumpkin
The biggest concern here is, you make it sound like they still have
homosexual desires, but just don't give in to them. That's good - for
a start. However these are the first steps of a spiritual babe in
Christ. If years later this has still not been overcome, something is
seriously wrong. I know some EXhomosexuals. They are not still
stuggling with homosexual desires years later. They don't feel the
need to dwell on their lusts and problems, sharing them with other
homosexuals instead of their pastor.
Allan.
Yaderp
homosexuality as an unconscious or genetic pre-disposition is to suggest He
has created us flawed which in turn is an unequivocal indictment of God,
Jehovah, as being the same.
1 John 4:17 says (speaking of Jesus)
"As He is so are we, but in this world."
To accept it among Christians here is to accuse God and Jesus of being the
same for we are a reflection of them.
Of course, and as always, my opinion only - which I do not compel anyone to
respect or believe.
thetrumpetofthelord
> Mikey,
> You are such a hypocrite. When a news story was recently published making
> homosexual allegations about a certain band leader from Liberty University,
> a former friend of yours
***
Re:
ERIC LOVETT
***
at that, you were the first in line to defend this
> person. Kinda ruined your friends career didn't it.
***
The National Inquirer printed a story that alleged that Eric Lovett
was involved in a homosexual relationship with a member of his praise
band. The National Inquirer was unable to name even one source who
would go public stating that they knew for sure that the allegation
about Eric Lovett was true.Eric Lovett had a girlfriend at this time,
and so did the alleged band member.
Both Eric Lovett and Dr. Danny Lovett publically denied these
allegations .
Eric Lovett in public said that the allegations were false.I believe
him. The National Inquirer had no source for their allegation, none ,
they also failed to print my letter to the editor that I sent to
them.These rumours were started from my understanding simply because
one student falsely claimed that he saw Eric Lovett's sports car at a
gay bar.
***
Now you're the one
> making the allegations, "casting stones" for no other reason than to
> discredit this person and to ruin this persons career.
***
Although I could give you the exact names of alleged homosexual sgm
stars, I have chosen not to, and unlike the false accusations that
have been made against Eric Lovett, I have good reason to believe that
there are sgm stars involved in active homosexual lifestyles.
***
Does jealousy
> motivate you? Although I certainly don't agree with the homosexual
> lifestyle, I think your actions are just as deplorable.
***
Why?
I am not jealous of these homosexual sgm stars in any way ,none of the
Christian trumpet players are among these homosexuals, I feel sorry
for them because they lead a double life without victory over their
sin of homosexuality and because their fans who believe that they are
the strong Christians that they appear to be while on the stage are
supporting people who are living in sin and perhaps are not even
saved.This is one of the problems that bothers me about this
"buisiness" , many of the sucsessful buisiness sgm stars live a double
life drinking, doing drugs, smoking, cussing, having affairs, I am not
saying that I am perfect, I sometimes have a little problem with anger
and I eat too much, etc., but I would never be any different on the
stage than off a stage , maybe I am wrong, but I learned a long time
ago that SOME sgm stars are leading double lives and I don't think I
ever grew to accept it.
"For me to live is Christ"
Mikey
www.trumpetofthelord.com
***
>
> "thetrumpetofthelord" <trumpeto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:71c9fa99.02063...@posting.google.com...
> > Should Danny Janes , Jerry Kirksey and the "Singing News" allow well
> > known (alleged) openly homosexual southern gospel "stars" to be
> > reported about and promoted in their southern GOSPEL music newspaper
> > and on their Singing News radio charts?
> > Should Christian's boycott and protest against (alleged)openly
> > homosexual southern gospel stars? Should they try and stop them from
> > being invited to events?Churches?Ask that they not be regularly
> > written about in the Singing News Magazine?
> > Will pastors not speak up against Christians going to events where an
> > (allegedly)openly homosexual southern gospel "star" is on the program
> > or just might even be the headlighter?Shoudl an artist who cannot or
> > does not wish to give up the homosexual lifestyle be allowed to remain
> > in mainstream sg music?
thetrumpetofthelord
Re:
Great Pumpkin you proved my point
Some SGM stars are living in the active homosexual lifestyle, this can
not be denied.
***
How do I know? I was
> visiting a co-worker at his home. The co-worker is a young man who was
> raised a Christian and who I sincerely believe is saved, but who is
> struggling with his homosexuality and who came to me for counsel and
> prayer.
Some people believe that a homosexual according to the Bible is not
saved, others believe that they can be saved an be living a homosexual
lifestyle.
***
He is what they call "in the closet" which means that no one
> in his family or associations knows about him. I saw some CD's by a
> certain artist (not the one earlier named in these posts) and my
> colleague began to tell me how he and this attended the same church as
> youngsters and recently seen each other again. They hadn't seen each
> other since their teen years, when they were somewhat friends. This
> artist opened up to my friend about his own sexuality, because he came
> to suspect that my friend was also struggling with some of the same
> things. My co-worker, rather indiscreetly I thought, let me read some
> of the email exchanges between him and this artist. After what I read,
> there's no doubt. This is a name all of you would know. For him I
> pray, because I know the battle he is fighting against his enemy. Both
> of these young men are. But I would never, ever, ever name him or even
> hint at his identity, age or anything else that would lead to
> speculation. I have no, no, none, no interest, would find no
> satisfaction, in telling his secret. What would be the point, except
> to be the bearer of a juicy tidbit.
Nor would I.I only mentioned Eric Lovett because it was mentioned in
a major publication.
***
***
>
> I am proud of these two for not giving in to their desires and living
> in the homosexual world.
***
If they commit homosexual acts, they are living in the homosexual
world, if they confess it as sin and stop, then they are doing what is
right and biblical.
***
thetrumpetofthelord
Niether of those two newspapers interviewed me for the story.
Mikey
thetrumpetofthelord
Lets ask you Tony, based on your experience of being on the road, do
you believe that there are ANY southern gospel stars who areor have
ever :
( a simple yes or no will do please):
Have ever or are Drunking while on the road ?
Use or have used illegal drugs while on the road?
Are or have been actively involved in homosexual activity?
Have ever been involved in having affairs or sex outside of marriage
while on the road ?
Are only in the buisiness to make money?
The Great Pumpkin
up. Actually, I still do but I'm not sure I'll need them.
Blessed are the merciful.... you know how the rest goes.
XENIA PRINCESSWARRIOR
but I agree with you 100%.
Wes
Wes
"The Great Pumpkin" <thefriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:debed0c1.02070...@posting.google.com...
THE Old Man
Allen states well my feelings and if it came to a vote I don't see where
there would be any hanging chads ... Allen would win as he is on the right
side, IMHO.
dd
Tony Rush
I'm sorry...I'm going to have to side with Just Allan on this
one.
There are way too many Christians making excuses available
to homosexuals who are "struggling" with their "lifestyle".
My position is this: if you're "struggling" with pornography,
the solution is fairly simple: don't buy any.
I didn't say it was "easy"....I said the solution was "simple".
If this person (SGM artist or not) is talking to another
homosexual, I don't consider that to be a "struggle" against
the sin.
He should completely cut himself off from others who are
homosexual and seek professional Christian counseling from
someone who will tell him what the Bible says about it.
It's a sin and the choice not to indulge in it is also a
choice. If it's a "difficult" one then I think that person
might need to consider the fact that his desires haven't
been changed by the Holy Spirit.
No, I agree that all this talk of "working it out",
"struggling with it" and "fighting against the sin" makes
the whole thing sound like a process that has to be
completed in order to gain victory. And using such
phrases gives homosexuals more excuses to use for
why they aren't making immediate changes and instead
are "talking about it" with others who are "struggling".
Please. They should quit their whining and make a decision.
Will it take drastic measures? Sure.
Will it require them to make hard decisions? Sure.
Will they have to evict some people and thoughts from their lives?
Absolutely.
Victory is gained by trusting in Jesus and turning your back on sin.
Not by talking to other people who don't have their problem figured
out either. That's the blind leading the blind.
Want a different life? Make a decision to change. But, don't go
through the motions and talk about what you "want" or what you're
"battling with".
To paraphrase Nike, "Just don't do it."
Tony
Rick Ryan
Since, obviously, a good portion of your post is aimed at me, I will
respond.
So let's summarize here:
1) You don't like the term "faggot"
You call someone that's un-saved a "sinner". I call someone that's a
homosexual a "faggot". To an atheist, you (as a christian) would be just as
guilty of using an offensive term for their choice of lifestyle and belief.
For you to question the sincerity of my christianity because I use the term
"faggot" is offensive to me. BTW, I too, take strong offense at the "N"
word. Blacks are born that color, homosexuals are not.
2) From the overall tone of your posts, you seem to be quite liberal and one
who subscribes to the "I have no choice" argument so favored by homosexuals
(your words-" Suppose that he is wired homosexual "). You also strike me as
condoning known homosexual artists/ministers to stay in the biz as long as
they are celibate. You even call it "commendable" which I find shocking,
given your background as a minister yourself. If a priest is found to be a
homosexual or pedophile, would you agree for them to remain in their
ministry? What if the priest hasn't fondled a little boy for at least five
years? What if they tell you they're not active?
I take a different stance in this area. First of all, let's be real here.
These homosexual artists/ministers are (probably) not living in celibacy.
No, I don't have pictures (nor do I want them) but my opinion remains the
same that homosexuals SHOULD NOT be in a position of christian ministry,
period. Homosexuality is not, in my opinion, the way a person is "wired". It
is a choice. It is a SIN. It's a terrible shame when someone falls prey to
the spirit of homosexuality and I strongly support ministry to help restore
these individuals and to expel this vile spirit from them. I do not condone
"looking the other way" or "giving a pass" to any homosexual that stands on
a christian platform to "minister". They should receive ministry, not
attempt to give it. As a side note, I also abhor homosexuals because their
lifestyle transmits disease and is a hazard to the population in general. I
won't go into gory details but after studying the subject have found the
average lifespan of a homosexual is mid-40s. I've personally lost a good
friend (who was heterosexual) to AIDS because some homo decided he wanted to
give blood. Homosexuality is a health hazard to more than just homosexuals.
3) You think names should not be used - "> As far as SGM artists who may or
may not be gay: I also believe that
> it was reprehensible to name the particular artist as possibly gay or > to
repeat any rumors. "
Jesus named names. He called well-respected religious leaders "serpents" and
"sons of vipers". This was based on his opinion and assessment of those
people. According to your argument, Jesus himself would be found
"reprehensible". I will choose His example over your opinion, any day of the
week.
Perhaps I'm a simpleton, but my raising taught me to call things like I see
them. It also taught me to not remain in silence when I see something wrong
going on. My whole challenge in this post is to speak up and quit giving
these homosexuals a pass in SG, just because of their popularity, and I've
been lambasted for it. I hold the same opinion of those living in other
types of sin; adultery, drugs, theft, etc. If you are living in sin you
shouldn't be attempting to minister. You should be ministered to and
restored.
Obviously we will have to agree to disagree.
"The Great Pumpkin" <thefriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:debed0c1.02070...@posting.google.com...
thetrumpetofthelord
> "Deanshafer" <deans...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020701002927...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> I wish the trumpetofthelord would take this crap some place else. I thought
> this was a news group to promote SG music.
>
>
> HE WAS BANNED FROM OTHER SGM LISTS FOR THE SAME THING.
***
Re:
Censored, but not banned.
A well known D.J. who has a sgm list censored my posts warning people
not to do buisiness with Austin Taylor , Austin Taylor Promotions and
Cabin Creek Records .When he did this I chose to no longer be a part
of the list.
Cabin Creek Records and Austin Taylor /( Ethan Alexander) stole
$2050.00 plus two master copys of two c.d. projects from the Trumpet
of the Lord.Our efforts to warn people about Austin Taylor forced him
to sell Cabin Creek Records on July 1, 2002.
Mikey Schmidt
***
CJB
observations to add:
1. I want everyone to note a very important fact. The Pumpkin talked
about how he felt, Allan talked about what the Bible says. See, I might
feel that God is wrong, but that doesn't make God wrong. If the Bible says
it, you can lay it down as fact, whether or not you feel the same way or
not.
2. Too many people try to make a god in their image, when the God of the
Bible tells us to be "conformed to the image of His Son." We're the ones
that need to conform; we should never conform (distort) God to be what we
want him to be.
3. Thank you, Allan, for defending the Truth. At times on this NG, I've
felt pretty lonely on Biblical issues. You've done a better, more thorough
job than I would have.
CJB
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
thetrumpetofthelord
> > I hope you will understand why I asked the question the way that I
> > did.
> > Mikey Schmidt
>
> NO! I don't. If you are gonna sling mud and start/spread rumors and gossip
> you should be straight enough to name names. If you're not then you should
> keep your mouth shut!
***
I disagree Don.
Sir, I am focusing on the problem and not the individuals. I could
name names, but that might land me into court.Even if I was right how
could I prove it in court? No thanks, for those who are in the know of
current sgm it is easy to know who I am thinking about, and there
might be several others who are living false lives that I don't even
know about. People come up to me and say things all the time, I bet
many of the claims that they make are true, but perhaps not all of
them, one thing is for sure, there are several sgm stars who are not
living godly lifestyles who make it to the big shows because they are
promoted well, not because they live godly lives , many of them just
might even be lost.
With all of the things that are going on, one thing that we need to do
is to pray for these people, pray that they will repent and turn from
their sins and live for the Lord, not their careers.I have someone who
I know who was a Christian artist who has compromised his standards to
further his career. I have E-mailed him and asked him if Jesus is # 1
in his life.He failed to reply to my question. He was once a strong
Christian artist ,but because after two Christian C.D.'s he felt that
going the secular route would help his career he has compromised to
the point where God is not the head of his life at all. He even
participated in a broadway show that has blastphamy in it, all to
further his career.That is the Capitalistic way, do what is best for
your career, but it is not what I believe that God wants for us to
do.I played and lived for the world, and its father, and it never
satisfied, only playing for Jesus can fill my soul with joy , big time
or small time, I am happiest when I am playing and living for Jesus.
Mikey Schmidt
www.trumpetofthelord.com
***
garydw
find some terms to describe you that are derogatory and call you by them.
As for you not liking gay's, well then you might want to find a place where
you can start your own country, because gay people are here, and here to
stay, and they are a part of your every day life.
"Rick Ryan" <rick...@datrixnet.com> wrote in message
news:WU3X8.27423$Bt1.1...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
M. Elden Gaines
news:1gjoiu8j8ntfsnkh5...@4ax.com.......
>
> Allan.
I must say, I'm impressed. I read the whole sordid thread, thought about
posting, remembered past flame sessions and not only decided against it, but
considered, very seriously, just dropping out of the group altogether. Kind
of a "last straw" thing.
Then I saw Allan's response. It was extremely well done. He answered every
point, he was compassionate, yet truthful, Biblical and concise. But I
shuddered when I started to think about reading the replies. Boy was I
surprised!! I'm sure some negative responses will come, BUT, the ones posted
so far raised my eyebrows some. Of course, I'm sure there are quite a number
in the group who have kill-filed Allan and myself for past transgressions in
defending God's Word, so the responses may not be overwhelming.
The "pumpkin", though well-meaning (aren't most liberals?), is surely
leaning to his own understanding and not looking to the Word. He relies on
what he feels and what he believes, not what God says, as pointed out by
CJB.
It would be wonderful if there were more dialogues like this one, rather
than some of the diatribes in the past.
I have also been surprised by the number of pro-KJV statements of the past
few days.
Good comments, good writing, great interaction.
Elden
garydw
clear commandment.
Judge Not.............
"Tony Rush" <to...@therushs.net> wrote in message
news:b0293ff3.02071...@posting.google.com...
CJB
an apology.
CJB
garydw <no.spam...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3d2d0...@nopics.sjc...
CJB
CJB
Tony Rush <to...@therushs.net> wrote in message
news:b0293ff3.02071...@posting.google.com...
CJB
> Good comments, good writing, great interaction.
> Elden
I've thoroughly enjoyed the NG lately. One thing that's helped me is to
give the things I've read some time to sink in, for the most part.
CJB
M. Elden Gaines
> clear commandment.
>
> Judge Not.............
>
Nice job of Scripture twisting. Chapter and verse, please. God did not make
the homosexual the way he (or she) is. AND, if you're going to (mis)quote
Scripture, please keep it in context and consider all that God has to say on
a subject. The Word says:
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
A former president put it this way, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of
the kitchen." God does not say, unequivocally "Don't judge, but rather,
"Make sure you are ready to stand the same judgement! He also says:
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the
world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that
pertain to this life?
Judgment of spiritual things is something God expects of us.
We are solemnly warned against leaning to our own understanding, relying on
what feels right, as opposed to what God says.
Elden
CJB
CJB
M. Elden Gaines <mga...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kz7X8.65535$CJ2.7...@twister.neo.rr.com...
Joe Rouse
> clear commandment.
>
> Judge Not.............
>
Okay, I can't lurk any longer....
If you believe God made the homosexual, then please explain the following
scriptures:
Genesis 1:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be
alone: I will make him an help meet for him.
Genesis 1:22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a
woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 1:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and
shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
As the saying goes, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
And please explain the following scriptures:
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is
abomination.
Leviticus 18: 29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even
the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
If,as you imply, homosexuality is something that God created, then why did
he make Eve in the beginning? Why would he have these commandments in
Leviticus? Why did he destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
Scripture is clear - it is not of God. Homosexuals are not created as such.
They chose that life by rejecting God and His plan. According to Paul in
Romans 1:26-27, these people have utterly rejected God, and because they
showed no desire to follow Him, He "gave them up unto vile affections: for
even the women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in
their lust one towards another..." I've seen it happen myself. Notice the
word "leaving" - it means they changed, they went away from what they had
been. It's very clear that they weren't created homosexuals.
Pardon the long post. I normally stay out of these sorts of conversations,
but when I see such blatant disregard for what God's word clearly says, I
have to speak up.
CJB
Hank Gillette
Just Allan <just...@COLDhotmail.com> wrote:
> It IS a conscious choice. Maybe some people are just so
> dull in their thinking, that they're not aware of it. There are no
> "born homosexuals". The Bible terms it, "burned in their lust one for
> another". Even the very word homoSEXUAL states it clearly. A sexual
> lusting for the same sex. David loved Saul's son. But they weren't
> homosexuals.
>
> "Attraction" is NOT the same as "lust". A man can be attracted to a
> woman on a friendship level and also to another man the same way.
> However, once you add the homosexual "act" to the friendship, it not
> based on friendship, it is based on lust. Else we'd have a bunch of
> gay people running around who weren't really gay at all, because they
> never had sex with each other. Being gay means you HAVE SEX with the
> SAME SEX. Not that you are attracted to the same sex. If it did,
> we'd ALL be guilty of being gay at times.
No, being gay means having one's primary sexual attraction towards the
same gender. Homosexuality/heterosexuality is about who you are sexually
attracted to, not whether or not you actually have sex with them. By
your definition, Jesus wasn't heterosexual, because he never had sex
with a woman.
I'm puzzled by your certainty that homosexuality is a choice. That and
your other statements suggest that you made a conscious choice to be
heterosexual. If that is true, I hate to break it to you, but you just
outed yourself as bisexual.
Your mistake is believing that everyone has the same feelings and
desires. I've never had any kind of attraction to other men. I was
attracted to females long before I knew anything about why I should be.
My friendships with women have a totally different feel that those with
men, even when I know nothing will ever happen, because there's that
undercurrent of sexuality.
If I'm misinterpreting what you meant, I'd appreciate a clarification.
--
Hank Gillette
garydw
And Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality.
"M. Elden Gaines" <mga...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kz7X8.65535$CJ2.7...@twister.neo.rr.com...
M. Elden Gaines
> I misquoted nothing. As for God, he made all things...
>
> And Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality.
>
a verse, or worse, part of a verse out of its juxtaposition to other
Scripture to try and prove a point or pet doctrine is Scripture twisting.
Peter says, "No Scripture is of any private (singular) interpretation." In
other words, no Scripture stands alone. No teaching or doctrine can be
constructed from a single verse. We must always let Scripture interpret
Scripture.
Indeed God made all things. He did not make any person to be a homosexual.
Why do you suppose they, themselves call it a lifestyle? It is a chosen way
to live. Did God make some to be theives, some rapists, some murderers? Did
God make Cain kill his brother by wiring him with a disposition to murder?
You obviously pick and choose what you want to believe or use from God's
Word, and read it with blinders. God is very plain that homosexuality is an
abomination before him, an aberration that is against all nature. It leads
to destruction unless one finds deliverance. There is deliverance from this,
just as there is from every other sin. But continuance in ANY sin merits the
wages of sin.
Sodom was destroyed because of the overwhelming influence of
unrighteousness. Where do you suppose the word sodomy comes from? It became
a part of our language because Sodom personified this reprehensible practice
more than any other place in history (except maybe very recent history.) It
was sexual lust which caused the men of Sodom to demand Lot to send forth
the angels.
In the Master's love and service,
Elden
Bolster
"garydw" <no.spam...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote
> Well have you feel that using the term faggot is okay,
Could you please:
1. Stop top posting
2. Quoting a 14k document to add two sentences. Or a 9k document to add one
esntence.
Bolster
"garydw" <no.spam...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote
> God made the homosexual just as he is, and then he gave each of us a very
> clear commandment.
>
> Judge Not.............
You are correct, he did say "Judge Not............." But perhap's it'd
be more clear to you if you'd read the rest of the sermon and see what was
included in all those ............. you saw fit to remove.
Dave Lee
Boston Globe, can you name a few?? I'd love to read what a third party has to
say.>> >I was even mentioned on the front page of over 40
>> >major newspapers last year including being mentioned in a Beth Warren
>> >story on the front page of the...
>>
>> I tell you, I read the Boston Glode and the New York Times, as well as
>others,
>> and I'm sure I would have noticed your name in one of them
>Re:
>Niether of those two newspapers interviewed me for the story.
>Mikey
Paul Slopak Jr.
If God made the homosexual as he is then you are saying that God created
something that is an "abomination" to Himself. God is not an ambiguous God.
He always states emphatically that homosexuality is an abomination in His
sight. He would have to be a God of chaos to create something that He
considers an abomination. God creates man. Man then chooses homosexuality
and becomes an abomination to God. God does not create certain people
homosexual, it is a free choice. I used to work with someone who was
homosexual. He always thought he was made that way until he met the girl of
his dreams. He is now very much heterosexual and has no homosexual
tendencies at all. He has become a Christian, a husband and a father. What
happened here? Did God change His mind on what he had created this man to
be? I think not!! The man decided to change his lifestyle and come to Christ
for forgiveness.
"Bolster" <dc2...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WxfX8.83910$wj4.7...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
The Great Pumpkin
Several points:
1. My thanks to those who read what I actually said and didn't read
into it a controversion of their own beliefs. I am never unwilling to
have someone disagree with me, but I at least like those who disagree
with me to actually disagree with what I believe and say.
2. I am anything but a liberal. I had to laugh at that one. One does
not have to be a theological liberal to be compassionate. As I
Corinthians 13 teaches us, love is to be done (that's why my bible
uses the word charity). What, then, does it mean to love the sinners?
3. It occurs to me that by some of the standards set here, if any of
you have to remain pure despite sexual interest in women other than
your wife, you probably do not need to be in the ministry. The same
for any who have to battle tendencies towards anger, ambition, and
interest in material possessions.
On the other hand, I agree that those who are engaged in active sexual
immorality have no place in public ministry, whether homosexual or
heterosexual. Of course, then comes the problem of affairs, divorce,
remarriage.... gets kind of complicated.
4. I notice that the religious practice of "shunning" is advocated
here by one or two, but so far only for one sin. That's why I use the
term "The Friend of Sinners." Shunning did not seem to be a practice
that our Lord used, and his association with them did not seem to be
predicated upon whether they changed their ways immediately. This is
somewhat of an interpolation, but then, the opposite view would be
also. I choose to try to counsel and influence people, that is, to
help them in their struggles.
5. Allan, you referred to gay-themed movies as propaganda. I wonder
how many of them you have seen (and would you be willing to tell us
which ones they were)? If only gays are seeing them, then who are they
propagandizing? And what about Christian themed movies, like "The
Hiding Place" (which, by the way, is one of the finest movies I've
ever seen, in case any of you haven't see it). Are our movies
propaganda. I don't think so. Gay-themed movies are an artistic way of
expressing the life these people live and the struggles they have.
6. Allan, you used the term "rubbish" to describe my assertion that
the gays I know wish they weren't gay. I assume by this that you are
close enough to enough gay people to know how they think and feel and
are making your judgement based on what you know. I'd like to hear
more.
No, the fact is, the ones I know, some openly, some inside, want to be
NORMAL.
7. Allan, you wrote something very interesting, but you either left a
word out or didn't and either way, it skews your comment. I'm not
criticizing, just curious. Here's what you wrote:
"Being gay means you HAVE SEX with the SAME SEX. Not that you are
attracted to the same sex. If it did, we'd ALL be guilty of being gay
at times."
Your definition here is confusing to me. Being gay (homosexual) does
not mean that you have sex with the same sex. It means that you are
SEXUALLY attracted to the same sex. Are you saying that if you are
sexually attracted to the same sex, not sexually attracted to the
opposite sex, but that you never act on your attraction, that you are
straight? This seems bizarre.
Now, I have several close male friends (none of them gay, all of them
Christian except two). Now, I love these guys, and I'm secure enough
in my sexuality to be able to openly tell them that I love them, and
they say the same to me. I am not sexually attracted to any of them.
So I'm not sure what you mean by "attracted to the same sex." I also
have a few close female friends, all of them Christian. I love them
too and say so. But with them, I have to be much more careful, not
only because of appearances, but one cannot let a relationship with
woman not your wife go too far down the road, because it might lead
somewhere. Not with me I think, only because my wife, well, is all I
ever want or could want. I'm still desperately in love, still like the
little pup I was when I met her in college 32 years ago. But a lot of
good men have become too close with women friends and things have gone
too far.
My point is, what do mean by "attracted to." Do you mean sexual
attraction, "eros" love. If so, that's a surprising admission. I don't
think that's what you mean, and if it isn't, then your definition of
homosexual is different than mine, because you believe that a person
is not gay unless he acts on it. In that case, by your definition, the
two friends I mentioned in my last post aren't homosexual. They're
just sexually attracted to other men.
8. Mike, I didn't prove your point at all. The guy I know about isn't
practicing homosexuality. He considers himself a homosexual who is
working to remain pure.
9. Rick, there's a difference between homosexuals not having a choice
about their PREFERENCE (which I didn't say I believe, I said I don't
know or understand that issue) and saying that they have no choice
about their ACTIONS. I like women, but I don't sleep with all of them
that I could (maybe I'm flattering myself). I like money but I don't
rob banks.
10. CJB. I wasn't talking about how I "feel" about homosexuality as
much as I was talking about compassion towards people who are
suffering and struggling. That's not contradictory to the Bible. My
biblical views on homosexual practice are probably the same as yours
since they're exactly what the Bible says. It seems that my view on
how to treat people is what is different from some others.
For instance, there have been a lot of comments about my uncertainty
as to how homosexuals become that way, but knowing that it isn't as
simple as, "I choose to be attracted to people of the same sex." The
Bible says nothing whatever about the, if you will, psychological
origin of homosexuality or heterosexuality for that matter. It talks
about homosexual practice, rape, murder...etc. Any conclusion that any
of us draw about whether homosexuality is "hard-wired" or whatever is
simply an opinion.
As to whether it is possible to live without practicing it, THAT is
the choice and is just as possible to do as the fact that I've never
had any kind of sexual contact with any woman but my wife.
11. garydw: It seems that you have some sort of axe to grind, and
that's OK, but that doesn't mean that homosexual practice is OK. As
far a judging, I wish that scripture had not been put in the Bible
because it is so misused (don't get horrified y'all, Martin Luther
wished that James hadn't been included in the canon of Scripture
because it was so misused). However, it's there, but it doesn't mean
that we can never decide if something is right or wrong. What it does
mean, however, may be relevant to this discussion.
Well, this has all been very interesting. Fortunately, for all of us
(hopefully) the discussion is merely academic and none of us have
never had to face the issue of sexual attraction to the same sex and
what we do with our lives because of it. And that, I guess, is part of
my point. It is easy to be on the straight side of the argument, and
easy to apply the scriptures when it doesn't cost us anything at all
but a few moments time. For don't we always judge from our strengths
to the other person's weakness?
The problem for the gay man or woman is that the scripture still apply
to them, even if it is a struggle for them, even if it means lifelong
celibacy. For those who succeed in remaining set apart (holy) to the
Lord, I have much respect, for that is not a battle that I have to
fight. If the same is true for you, you should thank God every day.
"Lead us not into temptation" it says.
If you are gay and reading this,know that there are some Christians
who have compassion and understanding for your struggle. I won't shun
you but I will tell you the truth about the Cross and holiness. I
pray for your continued strength and final victory.
God bless all
The Great Pumpkin (descending again into the pumpkin patch)