Legacy Five!
Joyce Trantham
was nice, had a good crowd and the guys really did sing good for us! The
Lord is really blessing these young guys as they work for Him. Keep
them in your prayers.
Blane007
were great and Roger Bennett makes a great spokesperson for this group. You
can really tell that they appreciate their fans and love to entertain.
Paul Slopak Jr.
I have seen this group 4 times since they originally got together. (Don't
faint Clarence)
The first two times they were pretty rough around the edges particularly
with their first immature tenor.
Once they regrouped when I think his name was Josh Cobb resigned the group
and got some more experience singing together, they have moved way up the
ladder and have become one of the finer quartets in the business.
They have great chemistry on stage and they have a bass that can become
legendary with time. Their baritone, if he sticks with it, will rival Mark
Tramill in the future.
It has become a real pleasure to see this group whenever they are close by.
"Blane007" <blan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020311011010...@mb-bd.aol.com...
Blane007
>with their first immature tenor.
I did notice that the tenor was different than on the CD "Strong in the
Strength" and have wonder why he resigned.
David Ching
SolidGospel.com is that (paraphrasing) some folks are meant to be on the
road, and some aren't, and Josh Cobb had decided that he was meant to come
off the road.
The word on the street is that there were personality conflicts involved.
That can happen in any organization, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Personally, I like Tony Jarman a lot better anyway. <g> He has a more
sophisticated sound, although maybe not as much raw talent as Josh. The
first album after he joined the group was Heritage Vol. I. I think they
featured him on way too many songs; it seems he was taking over the lead
from Scott. The latest album, Heroes of the Faith, features the singers in
roughly equal proportion, so I like it much better.
Say what you will about Scott not being a very good lead singer; he does
have a way to go in terms of control; but he has a huskiness in his voice
that is unmatched even now. Can't wait to hear him in a few years! I
anticipate him going through the kind of improvement that Mark Trammel
recently went through to earn him two times the Singing News Fan Award.
Cheers,
David
"Blane007" <blan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020314110623...@mb-cm.aol.com...
Paul Slopak Jr.
You talk about Scott Fowler as if he is a 19 year old kid.
This guy has been around the block and a few years isn't going to
make much difference in his weak voice.
He was a lead before he joined the Cathedrals. He was not a great baritone
and decided to go back to being a not so great lead.
That does not make him a bad person, just makes him the weakest link in a
fine quartet.
Why is huskiness attractive? Would you say Gerald Wolfe has a husky voice? I
would not and yet he is probably one of the top 3 leads in the business.
Jonathan Wilburn does not have a husky voice either. etc. etc.
David Ching
The reason I think Scott can improve is that he has shown consistent
significant improvement in each of the albums that he is in.
Also, Mark Trammell is not a young man either, yet he only recently became
great, at least in my opinion. If you listen to his work with the
Cathedrals, he is an order of magnitude better now. I really don't think
age has anything to do with how much a person can improve.
I like Gerald Wolfe too. A lot. He definitely has power and command that
Scott may never possess. Yet there are other things that make a great
singer. Things like subtlety and uniqueness in one's voice. There is just
something that grabs me about Scott's huskiness - I guess you could call it
"chestiness" --- that I've heard in baritones but not so much in lead
singers. The unique combination really does it for me.
I wouldn't call Scott the weak link either. I don't think Glenn Dustin is
that good a bass, and Tony Jarman sounds like he is straining a lot. Not
that I think either is bad, but to single Scott out as the weak link - I
don't think so.
-- David
"Paul Slopak Jr." <pauls...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:u17k8.41962$uA5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
David Bruce Murray
>You talk about Scott Fowler as if he is a 19 year old kid.
>This guy has been around the block and a few years isn't going to
>make much difference in his weak voice.
I still like the way Scott sings. He's sort of like Bryan Hutson in that he
never really pushes his voice. I don't hear that as "weak," but certainly
more restrained.
If I were choosing between Fowler vs. Jonathan Crabb, I'd rather hear
Fowler. If it's vs. Jonathan Wilburn, I'd rather hear Wilburn. In other
words, there's something to be said for knowing your limits as a vocalist
and singing to the best of your ability within those limits. I think Scott
Fowler does that effectively. My favorite Fowler lead performance remains
"Mansion Over A Hilltop" that was recorded on the Cats' _Radio Days_.
>Why is huskiness attractive? Would you say Gerald Wolfe has a husky voice?
I
>would not and yet he is probably one of the top 3 leads in the business.
Wolfe is a great emcee and gets to sing great songs written by Rodney
Griffin all the time. That doesn't hurt his general reputation at all.
However, if you put Gerald Wolfe next to Guy Penrod, I'm going to pick
Penrod. I'm most impressed by singers who have a very controlled, full
bodied sound. Wolfe is very good, but I would not rate him above Arthur
Rice, Penrod, or Michael English when he was in his prime.
>Jonathan Wilburn does not have a husky voice either. etc. etc.
That's true. He is extremely expressive, though, where Wolfe is a bit more
refined. I agree you don't have to have a husky tone to be rated highly, but
some fans are drawn to that sound.
Going back to Fowler and "husky," I don't agree with Ching's use of that
word for Fowler. Penrod, English, and Taff are prime examples of "husky,"
IMO.
David Bruce Murray / dbmu...@rfci.net
---Making Hay While The Sun Shines---
Stevie Wonder
<d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote:
>Hi Paul,
>
>The reason I think Scott can improve is that he has shown consistent
>significant improvement in each of the albums that he is in.
>
>Also, Mark Trammell is not a young man either, yet he only recently became
>great, at least in my opinion. If you listen to his work with the
>Cathedrals, he is an order of magnitude better now. I really don't think
>age has anything to do with how much a person can improve.
>
>I like Gerald Wolfe too. A lot. He definitely has power and command that
>Scott may never possess. Yet there are other things that make a great
>singer. Things like subtlety and uniqueness in one's voice. There is just
>something that grabs me about Scott's huskiness - I guess you could call it
>"chestiness" --- that I've heard in baritones but not so much in lead
>singers. The unique combination really does it for me.
>
>I wouldn't call Scott the weak link either. I don't think Glenn Dustin is
>that good a bass, and Tony Jarman sounds like he is straining a lot. Not
>that I think either is bad, but to single Scott out as the weak link - I
>don't think so.
Bro, if you don't think Glenn Dustin "is that good a bass", then you
haven't listened to a lot of Southern Gospel. It's either that, or you
prefer that ancient, creaky sound of J.D. Sumner. LOW doesn't mean
"good bass" just like HIGH doesn't mean "awesome tenor".
I've sung bass in SG quartets before, and I can tell you that Glenn is
one of the best to come around in a long time. But, again, that's just
my own personal opinon.
David Ching
to anything else. I regularly attend all nights of the Great Western
Quartet Convention each year, attend whatever gospel concerts come out to
Northern CA, watch Bill Gaither specials on TNN (and buy the videos too),
and also enjoy the National Quartet Convention and regular programming via
GMTN on satellite TV. Not to mention that Springside has my credit card
number and regularly charges it! So, I guess I have listened to "a lot" of
gospel music. :-)
Glenn Dustin has good diction and a nice warm voice, but is missing
resonance in the ultra-low notes compared to Younce and Sumner. As such,
Legacy Five has an overall blend that is pitched upward. The Cathedrals and
currently Palmetto State have more of an ideal top-to-bottom coverage that I
rank highly. Jeff Pearles in my mind is a lot better young bass than
Dustin.
Nice to debate with you! :-)
-- David
"Stevie Wonder" <shub...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43kp9uct74otrode6...@4ax.com...
David Bruce Murray
>The Cathedrals and
>currently Palmetto State have more of an ideal top-to-bottom coverage that
I
>rank highly. Jeff Pearles in my mind is a lot better young bass than
>Dustin.
I agree with you on that comparison. Dustin is capable, nothing to be taken
away from him, but he doesn't blow you away like some bass singers.
How do you rate these current young bass singers? I'll put them in the order
I prefer them, including Pearles and Dustin. I'm limiting this to basses
that have been singing with a major group for ten years or less. If I miss
one, it could mean I don't like him at all, but more than likely it means I
haven't heard them sing enough to form a firm opinion.
Amazing Bass singers:
1. Gene McDonald - Florida Boys
2. Jeff Pearles - Palmetto State
3. Burman Porter - Dove Brothers
4. Cyle Cornish - Melody Masters
Great Bass singers:
5. Christian Davis - Old Time Gospel Hour
6. David Grant - Journeymen
7. Bill Lawrance - Assurance
8. Glenn Dustin - Legacy Five
9. Dan Clark - Nelons (OK, he's not exactly young, but he hasn't been out
there as long).
10. Tom Graham - Golden Covenant (see above)
11. Chris Weaver - Crossway
In addition to enhancing the sound of their respective quartets, my top four
can each deliver moving solos. The guys near the bottom are fine bass
singers as well, but they sound best in the context of a group. It's
versatility that sets the truly amazing bass singers apart from those that
are "merely" great.
One of the reasons I put McDonald at number one is because he has surprised
me with his range a number of times, and I'm not talking about the bottom.
He can hit some pretty high notes while retaining a bass richness in his
voice. Another reason is because he doesn't sound exactly the same on every
song. He's the most flexible bass singer on my list.
Pearles has come a long way since he first started singing with PSQ. It's
tough to follow a guy like Harold Gilley. He's basically had to help win a
new group of fans, because any time 75% of a group changes, the sound is
completely different.
I wasn't a huge Burman Porter fan at first, but his style has grown on me
over time. Again, his ability to step up on a solo and blow you away is what
put him near the top of my list.
I heard Cyle Cornish the first night he ever performed with the Melody
Masters. They had never rehearsed with him at all, but you'd have thought
they'd been singing together for ten years. Since then, I've listened to his
range expand. He bottoms out on an E-flat below low C on their latest
release, yet he has a blend that you don't normally get with "power basses."
TroySoos
>resonance in the ultra-low notes compared to Younce and Sumner.
Just out of curiosity: What ARE the ultra-low notes? How low does a gospel
bass singer have to go? I know for barbershop, a low F is pretty much all you
need. Is low C (two octaves below middle C) a "requirement" for a Southern
Gospel bass?
Some gospel basses didn't seem to go all that low. I think Brock Speer didn't
go much below Eb. (And Bill Gaither, of course, is really a second baritone in
GVB).
- Troy
David Bruce Murray
TroySoos wrote in message <20020324193819...@mb-cf.aol.com>...
>Just out of curiosity: What ARE the ultra-low notes? How low does a
gospel
>bass singer have to go? I know for barbershop, a low F is pretty much all
you
>need. Is low C (two octaves below middle C) a "requirement" for a Southern
>Gospel bass?
It's not an absolute requirement, especially in a mixed group like the
Speers or a top heavy male quartet like the Gaither Vocal Band, but for
normal power quartet singing, I'd say it's a generally accepted minimum.
Tenors, of course, should be able to nail the C above middle C with ease
while a good lead needs to get to the G or the A, in order to fill out the
chord. A group that can regularly end songs with a three octave range
between the tenor and bass (or three octaves plus a major third) has a huge
advantage in sound over a group that can only get two. Very few can get
four. Four doesn't sound as good as three, anyway, in my opinion.
Tim Riley gets a good crunching sound going around the A or A flat below low
C, allowing endings that in the key of A, would give Parrack the option of
hitting a C# or an E (octave plus a half step or octave plus a major third
above middle C). This very full sound why Gold City is considered by many
to be the ultimate quartet singing today.
J D Sumner, of course, was the master of the octave between "Low C" and
"Double Low C." He had more volume in that range than any other bass I've
heard and could easily drop to an E-flat or lower. Even though the other
Stamps had lower ranges than most modern quartets, their sound was full on
the strength of Sumner alone.
Barbershop singing focuses on "tall chords." Although the name implies
differently, it's not necessary to have a particularly wide range between
tenor and bass. You almost always have at least four notes from which to
choose, rather than the three you usually get in SG. In a C 9th chord, for
example, you'd typically have C, E, Bflat, and D, and the bass wouldn't
necessarily be on the C. On a C chord in SG, the bass would nearly always be
on the C, the lead singer would be on the melody note, and the other two
parts would be positioned on either side of the lead singer. If the melody
note was the E below middle C, the bass would be forced to drop to Low C, to
give room for the baritone. You never have that much space between bass and
baritone in barbershop.
Some SG quartets can get away with barbershop ranges, but only if they are
exceptionally good at blending. Tight harmony requires a precision that most
power groups lack. Again, using the Stamps for an example, they never were
the type of group you'd go see for their blend. The Kingsmen are another
example of a power group. Unfortunately for several former Kingsmen tenors,
Ray Reece wasn't particularly deep when he was younger, so the tenors ruined
their voices trying to strain higher and higher.
David Ching
that make it out to the west coast are rather limited! The Florida Boys
aren't my cup of tea, but I look forward to the GWQC next month to hear Gene
McDonald and get re-acquainted with Burman Porter. I agree with your
ranking criteria, although ironically I think Glenn Dustin with Legacy Five
does have a good solo voice.
Cheers,
David
"David Bruce Murray" <dbmu...@rfci.net> wrote in message
news:0%qn8.147902$1g.12...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Norman Graham
simply go by what I hear and that's raises a few questions. In Jake Hess
and the Imperials, Armond Morales had a smooth bass sound without going real
low while Sherrill Nielsen could hit high notes on the tenor and yet the
group overall had one of the smoothest blends ever. Why?
Singing Americans with a bass (Dwayne Burke) who was almost a baritone had a
good sound with a lead (Mike English) and a tenor (Rick Strickland) who were
really high. Shouldn't they have had a low bass to balance the high notes?
That's what JD said he did with the Blackwoods because Bill Shaw and James
Blackwood were so high.
I'm always amazed when good baritones like Doy Ott and Mark Trammell get
into higher ranges than I expect. And the range of singers who sang both
lead and tenor (Roy McNeil, Jim Hill) amazes me. Tenors Steve Warren and
Brion Carter would also be good lead singers. But that's just what I hear.
Norm
"David Bruce Murray" <dbmu...@rfci.net> wrote in message
news:SDNn8.414513$pN4.27...@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
David Bruce Murray
Norman Graham wrote in message ...
>I don't know enough about music theory to understand David's explanation.
I
>simply go by what I hear and that's raises a few questions. In Jake Hess
>and the Imperials, Armond Morales had a smooth bass sound without going
real
>low while Sherrill Nielsen could hit high notes on the tenor and yet the
>group overall had one of the smoothest blends ever. Why?
The overall blend isn't determined just by the outer voices. As you've said,
Morales is a very smooth bass singer. The same can be said for McSpadden on
baritone and Hess at lead. Nielsen could get piercing on tenor if he wanted
to, but he also knew how to round out his tone when he wasn't on the melody.
He was classically trained, if I'm not mistaken, which means he had options
as a vocalist.
>Singing Americans with a bass (Dwayne Burke) who was almost a baritone had
a
>good sound with a lead (Mike English) and a tenor (Rick Strickland) who
were
>really high. Shouldn't they have had a low bass to balance the high notes?
Well, it wouldn't have hurt them any. Imagine how they'd have sounded with a
bass that was a little more flexible, like Harold Gilley, Tim Riley, or
George Younce. In the real world, though, you work with what you have, and
mold it into something that's entertaining. The Singing Americans certainly
did that.
>That's what JD said he did with the Blackwoods because Bill Shaw and James
>Blackwood were so high.
I have a feeling that was a Sumner joke. Sounds like one. You can stack
harmony wherever you want to stack it. After all, there are female trios,
mixed groups, etc., that have their own various combinations of blend and
power, and they all have fans.
There does come a point in four part harmony where the outer extremes can be
too much for my taste. Three octaves is ideal for a full quartet ending, but
I think four is too far.
Take the Perrys for example. Since they dropped their female soprano and
went to a Goodman type lineup, have you noticed that Tracy is singing deeper
bass? It would have just sounded weird for him to do that before the change
in vocals.
RayDunakin
on their first (and only) album. Anybody know what group he's with now?
Bror A. Nilsson, Jr
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Stevie Wonder
<d...@remove-this.dcsoft.com> wrote:
>Well, I've followed Southern Gospel for the past 14 years and rarely listen
>to anything else. I regularly attend all nights of the Great Western
>Quartet Convention each year, attend whatever gospel concerts come out to
>Northern CA, watch Bill Gaither specials on TNN (and buy the videos too),
>and also enjoy the National Quartet Convention and regular programming via
>GMTN on satellite TV. Not to mention that Springside has my credit card
>number and regularly charges it! So, I guess I have listened to "a lot" of
>gospel music. :-)
>
>Glenn Dustin has good diction and a nice warm voice, but is missing
>resonance in the ultra-low notes compared to Younce and Sumner. As such,
>Legacy Five has an overall blend that is pitched upward. The Cathedrals and
>currently Palmetto State have more of an ideal top-to-bottom coverage that I
>rank highly. Jeff Pearles in my mind is a lot better young bass than
>Dustin.
>
>Nice to debate with you! :-)
>
>-- David
ahhh...would that I could follow SG (is there any other kind of
music?) with the gusto that you get to! You'll note (I hope) that in
my earlier post, I ended it with the CYA "that's just my own personal
opinion."
If Jeff Pearles is the guy who does "Happy Rhythm" for Palmetto, then
I have to agree with you. I don't have any of their music, simply
because it's impossible to find here in Texas. Believe it or not (and
this may be the equivalent of a "Southern Gospel Agnostic") but I've
never really found George Younce's voice to be that terrific. He's a
world of fun to listen to and watch, and has an absolutely beautiful
spirit, but his voice never really impressed me. On the other hand, I
find Tim Riley (GoldCity) to be one of the very best. I guess my
admiration for Glenn (Dustin) is due in part to his youth. I emailed
him and told him that, as a 39-year old "wanna-be bass singer", I
didn't think it was fair for someone that young to have that kind of
bass voice! hehehehhee! Seems like a voice with a lot more miles on it
should have that kind of resonance!
Sumner...he was a freak. A Guiness World Record freak, yes, but let's
face it...he was in a league all his own. It's not fair to compare
others with JD, unless they're like Tim Riley or George Younce, the
guys that have the miles on them.
Speaking on those lines, was it true that JD really had a strong
disliking for Tim Riley, or was that all part of an act between the
groups?
And I agree on your closing line, except I don't look at it as
"debate"; more like discussion....
Shubes
David Bruce Murray
RayDunakin wrote in message <20020326004217...@mb-cs.aol.com>...
>What about Tim Duncan, who used to sing with Master's Voice? He was really
good
>on their first (and only) album. Anybody know what group he's with now?
He's currently with Poet Voices, but I haven't heard him enough to form an
opinion on him.
David Bruce Murray
>How come Ed O'Neal never gets any hype. He is a very good bass singer
Well, gee, when I think of young bass singers, I'm sorry, but Ed E'Neal just
isn't the first one that comes to mind. He's not exactly a spring chicken
any more! :o)
If you don't think he's getting enough press, though, feel free to hype
away.
David Bruce Murray
Stevie Wonder wrote in message ...
>Sumner...he was a freak. A Guiness World Record freak, yes, but let's
>face it...he was in a league all his own. It's not fair to compare
>others with JD, unless they're like Tim Riley or George Younce, the
>guys that have the miles on them.
Yeah, I have to agree. Even those comparisons are a bit of a stretch.
Sumner's tone was rough as a cob, but he had their daddy when it came to
sheer volume in the bottom range. He would sometimes drop the bottom out on
the Homecoming songs and you could see the other basses collectively look at
him like, "What in the world are you doing?" In other words, it was supposed
to be a bass section feature, not a J D feature. It became a J D feature,
because they just couldn't hang with him.
>Speaking on those lines, was it true that JD really had a strong
>disliking for Tim Riley, or was that all part of an act between the
>groups?
I've never heard anything along those lines either way.
David Ching
> If Jeff Pearles is the guy who does "Happy Rhythm" for Palmetto, then
> I have to agree with you. I don't have any of their music, simply
> because it's impossible to find here in Texas.
He's the one - great song to showcase his talents. You can get the CD from
the Palmetto State Quartet website (I'm almost sure), and also through
Springside via mail order.
> Believe it or not (and
> this may be the equivalent of a "Southern Gospel Agnostic") but I've
> never really found George Younce's voice to be that terrific. He's a
> world of fun to listen to and watch, and has an absolutely beautiful
> spirit, but his voice never really impressed me.
George could both light up a solo and reach down deep. Every time I hear
"Suppertime" it brings tears to my eyes.
> On the other hand, I
> find Tim Riley (GoldCity) to be one of the very best.
For some reason, I'm not impressed with Tim Riley much. I know most people
love his singing, but and I think he does a great job of managing Gold City,
but his voice has always sounded hollow to me.
> I guess my
> admiration for Glenn (Dustin) is due in part to his youth. I emailed
> him and told him that, as a 39-year old "wanna-be bass singer", I
> didn't think it was fair for someone that young to have that kind of
> bass voice! hehehehhee! Seems like a voice with a lot more miles on it
> should have that kind of resonance!
>
You're scaring me - 39 is not over the hill <g>. I'm 35.
> Sumner...he was a freak. A Guiness World Record freak, yes, but let's
> face it...he was in a league all his own. It's not fair to compare
> others with JD, unless they're like Tim Riley or George Younce, the
> guys that have the miles on them.
>
> Speaking on those lines, was it true that JD really had a strong
> disliking for Tim Riley, or was that all part of an act between the
> groups?
>
I never heard him speak of Tim Riley. But he and George Younce carried on a
mutual "drubbing" for years. JD wrote a column in the Gospel Voice, and
George wrote one in the Singing News (I think). JD would slam George, and
George would slam JD. It was always tongue-in-cheek, though.
> And I agree on your closing line, except I don't look at it as
> "debate"; more like discussion....
>
Sure, let's have a "discussion" then! <g> It's a pleasure to contribute to
this thread, unlike the Kenny Bishop thread, where I seemingly am the target
of cheap shots and unfounded accusations.
-- David
RayDunakin
"Suppertime" it brings tears to my eyes. >>
George Younce has an incredible warmth in his voice. I can't think of any other
bass singer who can put so much feeling into a song. To me, the guy's a
national treasure.
Clarence Grigsby
I've heard him plenty, both live and on CD. He is absolutely outstanding.