"True" basses
TomFooleryinFL
heard the term "full voice" tenor. Even a bass can sing tenor if he goes into
falsetto; in fact, it's sometimes easier to use a bass as a tenor since he can
just stay in falsetto; a lead or bari has to go back and forth between full
voice and falsetto. "Full voice" tenors can sing way up before having to go to
falsetto.
Leads me to a question about "true" basses. How low should a bass be able to
go to be a "true" bass? I mean going low with quality; anyone can growl an
occaissonal low note with a good sound system (eg, Bill Gaither). I've always
preferred a bass who may not go much below low F but gives a good solid
foundation to one who gets down to C but really has to stuggle to croak his
notes.
- Tom
OkblackhawkĊ
in the business. I don't know exactly what note he can go to, but he is a
joy to listen to. Does that count? LOL. Just my honest, humble opinion.
OkblackhawkĊ
Norman Graham
"TomFooleryinFL" <tomfool...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021214170802...@mb-bk.aol.com...
> Leads me to a question about "true" basses. How low should a bass be able
to
> go to be a "true" bass?
Can someone with more musical knowledge than I have tell me if there are
ranges singers must achieve to fall
within a certain position beit bass or tenor or baritone. I simply know what
I like but are there high notes you must be able to reach naturally to be
considered a tenor? Are there low notes you must be able to reach naturally
to be considered a bass. What about the two other positions -- baritone and
lead or second tenor?
I know singers can call themselves whatever they want but I'm curious
whether there are musical standards.
As for bass singers, while I enjoy some who go quite low I prefer the smooth
sounding ones such as Armond Morales (Imperials). I also enjoy Brock Speer
and Dwayne Burke (Singing Americans) although neither could get close to the
low levels of JD or London Parris. Do so-called basses like Brock and
Dwayne qualify as
basses if there are musical standards to determine such things?
David Bruce Murray
to
> go to be a "true" bass? I mean going low with quality; anyone can growl
an
With professional Southern Gospel, a bass singer should at least have the
Low C solid, IMO, to be considered a "true bass." Gaither isn't a true bass,
but when you have Guy Penrod and David Phelps on top, you don't have to
worry too much about getting in their way.
With barbershop, an F will normally do, because you're almost always singing
four note chords instead of three note chords.
With most SATB choral music, a "bass" is rarely asked to hit anything below
a G. Most choral basses would sing baritone in a male quartet.
We seem to agree that when a singer uses falsetto, it disqualifies him from
being a "true tenor." Would you therefore agree that those who "growl" low
notes rather than singing them are disqualified from being "true basses?" By
growl, I mean producing a low pitch without even using the voice box by
tightening the top of the throat and pushing air through to make it vibrate.
I've heard a few bass singers develop and use that technique.
> I've always
> preferred a bass who may not go much below low F but gives a good solid
> foundation to one who gets down to C but really has to stuggle to croak
his
> notes
Yeah, I prefer singers who sing in the range where they have the most power.
This doesn't apply only to bass and tenor singers. I've heard lead singers
attempt stuff that's too low or too high. Some baritone parts are written
too high when the lead and tenor have high ranges.
Back to the tenor issue, I really don't care all that much whether a tenor
is using falsetto if it sounds good and if it appears to be effortless. Same
deal with the growling basses. If they've developed their technique to the
point that it sounds very impressive, I don't see the advantage in snobbery
about whether they are "true" singers.
--
David Bruce Murray / dmur...@NOSPAMrfci.net
---Making hay while the sun shines---
David Bruce Murray
"Norman Graham" <ngra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:pHOK9.43560$lj.10...@read1.cgocable.net...
> Can someone with more musical knowledge than I have tell me if there are
> ranges singers must achieve to fall
> within a certain position beit bass or tenor or baritone.
Not really. There are some very broad, general ranges, but there's plenty of
overlap. A tenor and a bass in the same group may hit a common note in the
middle in the course of a concert. Our tenor's lowest note in concet is
something like an F sharp below middle C, while our bass jumps up to a Bflat
below middle C on one song where we do a bit of barbershop harmony. That
means they are overlapping five notes in range, and both can probably go a
bit further than that in their respective opposite directions.
The fact is you can take just about any four talented singers and form a
quartet that will sound decent. There are no absolute rules, as long as all
four have adequate ranges. The examples of bass singers that you've cited
(Burke vs. JD, etc.) bear this out. If everyone had to be as low as JD to be
a bass, there would be very few basses. If Burke had sung for JD, he'd have
been a baritone.
It's only at the extremes that someone may be obviously suited only to one
position. Most decent singers, though, have two octaves in them at the very
least. When you assemble a group, if it isn't already obvious, you can check
ranges to see how your guys stack up.
Some singers get labeled as a tenor from the outset and never change, even
as they grow older and it becomes more and more difficult for them to hit
the high notes. Some would be better off if they did drop to a lower part as
they get older. Unfortunately, though, most of them switch to a solo career.
Some groups switch the lead and baritone back and forth. Scott Whitener has
switched between lead and baritone, depending on what the line up was at the
given time. He did this when he was with the Singing Americans, Jericho and
later with the Melody Masters.
Glen Payne was called a "lead," because he sang the melody on many
Cathedrals songs. The songs were often harmonized with the "baritone" above
him, though, because Fowler had a higher range than Payne. Some groups
switch other parts around too, but this is not good IMO, because it changes
the group's sound too drastically when a different person switches to bass
or tenor.
CJB
> Glen Payne was called a "lead," because he sang the melody on many
> Cathedrals songs. The songs were often harmonized with the "baritone"
above
> him, though, because Fowler had a higher range than Payne.
This is very true. Technically the Cats lineup was Haase/Funderburke 1st
Tenor
Fowler/Trammell 2nd Tenor
Payne Lead/Baritone
Younce Bass
This arrangement goes back at least to the time the Cathedrals hired Kirk
Talley. None of their previous tenors had the higher range that Talley and
later had, so Glen didn't need to switch parts, but, Talley and later, he
usually sung the part next to the bass. We usually call that baritone, but
he usually sung lead there, with the harmony stacked above him.
Incidentally the many, MANY intersections of the Baritone and 2nd Tenor part
in the Cats would have made the part that Trammell and Fowler sung one of
the most technically difficult of any in SG.
In 1992, I had an after concert snack with Brian Free and Ivan Parker and we
talked about this very thing. They told me then that Glen Payne refused to
sing anything higher than an F. I guess that could help explain his
longevity some...
CJB
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Copper 7
the voice range of bass is an E below the staff to a C above the
staff...now, off course, that is a generalization. I know some 2nd tenors
that can cover that spread....
As a Southern Gospel Bass, I have been blessed with a low voice and low Bb,
A and Ab (below low
C) are commonplace in some of the arrangements we sing. Of course when the
Cathedrals, Gold City and the J.D. and the Stamps are your group's
influence, well it is understandable....LOL.
I have sang in choruses, choirs, a barbershop chorus and quartet and my
Southern Gospel group (we only have 3 guys...can use a top tenor or bari
bad)...The choir/chorus music generally calls for a "Lyric Bass" who sings
much higher and gets a token low note every three or four songs...Barbershop
quartet music didn't go too low or high...the notes (generalization here)
stayed on the staff and helped with the tight harmony associated with
BB-Shop....Southern Gospel quartet bass singers (IMO...not to offend any of
you "Greater Vision" type groups who sound great without a bass) are known
for their "growling" as some of you put it. J.D. Sumner (from my hometown of
Lakeland, FL) was in the Guinness Book of World Records for the lowest note
ever sung (until Mr. Tim "Eight-Hertz" Storms dethroned him last year), so
that is a tough measuring stick when it comes to SG Bass Singers.
IMO, a Low C will seperate the men from the boys for sure...it is a
practical note. But, this is for a quartet or larger. A trio is MUCH harder
to work and I feel an Eb below the staff is the lowest you would truly have
to go. I have heard some basses that couldn't get too low (Eb or D), but
they sang it with such richness and power that it sounded lower than it
really was...Burman Porter (Dove Brothers) is one of my favorites (for vocal
richness and quality)..... My group consists of me singing (a la Tim Riley)
the bass, one singing lead and bari (or filler notes) and one singing the
tenor/lead. I sing the basement Bb's and Ab's anyway because it helps give
it our distinct sound, it sounds good and it makes me feel good.
ALL of this is my opinion....thanks. Sorry it was so long.......
In His Service!
Terry L. Ford
Bass, New Creation Vocal Revival
First Baptist Church of Hinesville, GA
2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are
passed away; behold, all things are become new."
ruth
James Moore
"Copper 7" <nol...@clds.net> wrote in message news:<atgqe...@enews1.newsguy.com>...
talks,in a natural voice?Think about J.D.,Big John Hall-etc.
James
David Bruce Murray
"James Moore" <moo...@datalinkok.com> wrote in message
news:9eee43c0.02121...@posting.google.com...
> Why not just deciede if someone is a "TRUE BASS" by how low a singer
> talks,in a natural voice?Think about J.D.,Big John Hall-etc.
> James
Because if you go by talking voice alone, that would include people who
can't even stay on pitch or carry a tune.
Larry Davis
both of the Homeland Harmony Quartet. John started working with LeeRoy
in the Four Tones out of Chattanooga and came to Atlanta in the
Homeland Harmony when LeeRoy did. He's still alive, and though he is a
full time traveling preacher now, he can still sing well, as he did at
the Gospel Legends program in Calhoun, GA a couple of Saturdays ago.
The program, by the way, also featured, among others, all the Klaudt
Indian family except, of course, Mom and Dad, both of whom passed away
this year. A wonderful performance and wonderful afternoon.
Larry D (who is sometimes John's pianist)
Atlanta, GA
Larry Moore
Larry Moore
Larry Moore
I just wanted to add, let's not forget the great Bill Lyles who
wasn't very low,he could hit a low "c" probably but he was one of the
truest baesses of all time and I would like to say that I truly enjoy
the informative posts I find on this site.
Larry
Art Jackson
When I was first getting into SG Quartet singing, I remember that Paul
Downing was an excellent low-down Bass singer. Merry Christmas to all!
M. Elden Gaines
news:8ff738bd.02122...@posting.google.com...
> moo...@datalinkok.com (James Moore) wrote in message
news:<9eee43c0.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> Lets not forget "Big Chief"Wetherington and Harold Gilley,they were true
Basses
> Larry Moore
Harold Gilley is still with us, isn't he?
Elden
James Moore
Yes,and many groups would probably like for Harold Gilley yo be their bass singer.
James
James Moore
> "James Moore" <moo...@datalinkok.com> wrote in message
> news:9eee43c0.02121...@posting.google.com...
> > Why not just deciede if someone is a "TRUE BASS" by how low a singer
> > talks,in a natural voice?Think about J.D.,Big John Hall-etc.
> > James
>
> Because if you go by talking voice alone, that would include people who
> can't even stay on pitch or carry a tune.
David if you`ll read my post over you will notice that I used the word
SINGER,and a bass singer(in a popular SG quartet)should have the
ability to carry a tune & stay on pitch,and if he has a true bass
voice he would also talk lower than someone without a true bass
voice,thus making it easier to hit low notes without straining.By the
way,wasn`t this postt originally "TRUE BASSES"?
Merry Christmas
James Moore
David Bruce Murray
> "David Bruce Murray" <dmur...@NOSPAM.rfci.net> wrote in message
news:<Sp-cnQQ6VsO...@rfci.net>...
> > "James Moore" <moo...@datalinkok.com> wrote in message
> > news:9eee43c0.02121...@posting.google.com...
> > > Why not just deciede if someone is a "TRUE BASS" by how low a singer
> > > talks,in a natural voice?Think about J.D.,Big John Hall-etc.
> > > James
> >
> > Because if you go by talking voice alone, that would include people who
> > can't even stay on pitch or carry a tune.
>
> David if you`ll read my post over you will notice that I used the word
> SINGER,and a bass singer(in a popular SG quartet)should have the
> voice he would also talk lower than someone without a true bass
> voice,thus making it easier to hit low notes without straining.
My statement didn't disqualify singers. I've heard plenty of singers who had
trouble staying on pitch at the extremes of their range, especially bass
singers shooting for a note that was too low.
You can tell something about a person's natural range by their natural
speaking voice, but the pitch of the speaking voice only gives a very
general idea of a person's potential as a singer. You can't define a "true
bass" by speaking voice alone.
> By the way,wasn`t this postt originally "TRUE BASSES"?
Uh . . yes, and that's what we're discussing. What's your point behind this
question?
Hank Gillette
gospel_...@hotmail.com (Larry Moore) wrote:
> I just wanted to add, let's not forget the great Bill Lyles who
> wasn't very low,he could hit a low "c" probably but he was one of the
> truest baesses of all time
I was really impressed when I finally got to hear some quality
recordings of Bill Lyles. I always thought Rex Nelon was the smoothest
bass singer I'd ever heard (although far from the lowest), but Lyles was
about as smooth as Nelon but quite a bit lower. His untimely death was a
great loss in many ways. If not for the plane crash, the history of
Southern Gospel would have been considerably different, I think.
--
Hank Gillette
Hank Gillette
"David Bruce Murray" <dmur...@NOSPAM.rfci.net> wrote:
> Some groups switch the lead and baritone back and forth.
Jake Hess and James Blackwood did this with the Masters V, didn't they?
I think some of my favorite baritone singers (Doyle Ott, Glenn Allred,
Gary McSpadden) could have easily been great lead singers.
--
Hank Gillette
