Phil Collins ruined Genesis
Nic Caciappo
albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
suck! (Not to forget Yes OYE)
Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
Can't Dance. But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
Tarzan ? Dancing in the Light or whatever it was called? Then "Genesis"
continues with a bloke named Ray Wilson? Whata hoot. But I have to admit
the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
Phil in a progressive mood... would've been great. But it's strange to
think they are going to continue like this. They didn't even tour the
USA for the first time.
Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis. He should get
back with the guys and pick up where they left off with We Can't Dance
and move even further into the direction of CAS... better yet, bring
back Hackett too. Then we'll have a real Genesis again. After that, then
move onto solo projects, but always come back to the institution that
made them... Genesis and Genesis fans. Otherwise, the way it is now,
Phil ruined Genesis.
Nic
Victor Gamez
Nic Caciappo wrote:
--
=======================================
Victor Gamez
(305) 221-4486
Victo...@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~VictorGamez
http://www.ZonaRock.com (Test for Echo)
ICQ # 9786155
=======================================
Shawn
alone, so treat them as such and don't be a dickhead!! :)
> Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis
> albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
> think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
> Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
> adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
> Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>
...And Then There Were Three... has its moments. You gonna try to tell me
that "Deep In the Motherlode", "Burning Rope" and "The Lady Lies" aren't
fantastic pieces of music. As for Duke and "Misunderstanding" and "Turn It
On Again", I happen to find both of these to be great tunes. In fact, the
whole Duke album is fantastic. Even "Please Don't Ask".
> Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
> lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
>
Oh please! Abacab was fantastic. The title track rocks. "No Reply At All"
was a nice tune as well. I relate to it quite a lot. "Me & Sarah Jane" was
probably the prettiest Genesis song of the 1980s, "Dodo/Lurker" was always a
fun one. Whodunnit? is a hoot. I can just see someone waking up from a bad
dream or bad drunk (forgot who used that analogy, so I can't give credit
where it's due) and wondering that kind of thing. As for "Man on the
Corner", I like it, but it's an aquired taste. I think it would've been
more suitable for a Phil solo album rather than a Genesis album, but
whatever.
> Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
> suck! (Not to forget Yes OYE)
>
???????????????????? The self-titled album sucks?!?!?! Get off the acid,
dude! "Home By the Sea/Second Home By the Sea" is an absolute Genesis
classic. "Mama" is a great track. The drum machine adds a very nice touch.
Silver Rainbow ranks up there with Me & Sarah Jane as one of the prettier
tracks.
> Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
> singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
> Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
>
No argument there.
> However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
> Can't Dance. But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
> Tarzan ? Dancing in the Light or whatever it was called? Then "Genesis"
> continues with a bloke named Ray Wilson? Whata hoot. But I have to admit
> the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
> Phil in a progressive mood... would've been great.
First of all, Ray Wilson is no bloke. Second of all, I'd pay money to hear
Phil sing Calling All Stations, The Dividing Line, or There Must Be Some
Other Way and make it sound anywhere near as dark, chilling, and gut
wrenching as Ray does. Phil doesn't have near the balls in his voice that
is needed to sing those songs.
> But it's strange to think they are going to continue like this. They
didn't even
> tour the USA for the first time.
>
Why's it strange? Mike & Tony are just continuing doing what they love
doing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Honestly, if Mike &
Tony were only concerned with touring the US and making shitloads of money,
do you HONESTLY think they would've continued without Phil? I seriously
doubt it. It's obvious that they do it because they love what they do.
> Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis. He should get
> back with the guys and pick up where they left off with We Can't Dance
> and move even further into the direction of CAS... better yet, bring
> back Hackett too. Then we'll have a real Genesis again. After that, then
> move onto solo projects, but always come back to the institution that
> made them... Genesis and Genesis fans. Otherwise, the way it is now,
> Phil ruined Genesis.
>
First of all, you can't define what Genesis is or isn't. That's absurd.
That's like trying to define life. Can't be done. Genesis change all the
time. That's the great thing about them. Phil Collins did not ruin
Genesis. He simply took the group to a different demension. They went to
pop, not because of ONLY Phil. Mike, Tony, and Phil all made a collective
decision not to be trapped by their own past and decided to try to please a
lot more people than just biggoted shitheads like you. And it worked.
There is nothing wrong with trying to expand your fanbase. Sorry, but if
Genesis would've stayed progressive, they wouldn't be around right now.
Face it, asshole, progressive rock as a genre is DEAD.
Have a nice fucking day.
Shawn
Lightstormer
>First of all, you can't define what Genesis is or isn't.
Yeah!! I say everything Genesis has ever done is
wonderful!! Including "Who Dunnit!"
Anybody trashes Genesis at all and I will personally hunt
them down and fart on them!!!
Bastards!!!
-Andy,
Absurd Bastard
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
Christian Gerhardts
Have you ever thought about how bis his musical contributions have been?
In my opinion, without Phil Genesis wouldn't have been possible in that
form. His drumming made them what they are today (and always have been) and
his voices rescued them back in 75 from being forgotten. If Genesis would
still be doing the same things like Nursery Cryme or A Trick of the Tail,
they would be even more boring than Status fucking Quo or my very, very yey
very beloved Rolling Stones.
It's nice to have a band like Genesis that carries on but doesn't really
repeat itself. I'm quite sure that the next studio album will finally make
the Wilson/Banks/Rutherford Genesis a great part of their history.
Anyway it would be nice to see them once again all reunited for one last
hurrah, Wilson included!
And Shawn is right, Collins does not have the voice to sing things (great
things) like Dividing Line and Calling all Stations.
Christian
Nic seems to live beyond the Silver rainbow. If that's what he needs...
Lightstormer schrieb in Nachricht <9302995...@www.remarq.com>...
Carl
Phil did not ruin Genesis - HE SAVED THEM!!!
he is one of the best singers in the world.
Ray Wilson should be shot - he is SHIT!!!
That is why CAS was crap. Genesis are now on hold due to the poor reception
of CAS. If Phil was there, they would still be one of the worlds greatest
bands.
Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!, not Phil, so have a rethink, hey?
Thanks
Carl
Larry
the downfall of Genesis to make no sense. It that's the case, CAS must make
Genesis one of the world's finest groups (again). I happen to like CAS, but
it is not standing the test of time very well with me. I think something
new would spark my interest again. I find the Archive disks much more
pleasing.
Carl <ca...@hangon.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48Mc3.4768$w61.2285@stones...
Robert Ivanov
genesis is still fantastic and yes calling all stations iss a good album
Scott McMahan
Ant Phillips and the loss of the acoustic sound. An electric 12-string
guitar is just not acoustic!!! Genesis would have been a decent band
if they had kept up the pastoral acoustic stuff.
Scott
Slubberdegullion
Nic Caciappo wrote in message <3772D9...@earthlink.net>...
>Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis
>albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
>think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
>Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
>adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
>Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>
>Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
>lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
Sorry - you are actually talking complete bollocks here. Abacab was a great
new direction and is a great album. Much better that they did that - than
followed the course of Yes - guitar solo - keyboard solo - tree hugging
hippy lyrics - guitar solo - keyboard solo - more guitar - more keyboards -
bridge - end........yuck.
>
>Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
>suck!
Mama - may be one of the greatest tracks they did - and Home by the Sea aint
bad either....this must mean your talking bollocks again.
>Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
>singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
>Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
Oh yeah right - and somehow you imagine than Banks and Rutherford had a
problem playing this music?? How did you reach that conclusion?
>
>However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
>Can't Dance.
Ha hA!!!! Now its proven - your a looney - WCD was their worst album!!! CAS
beats it hands down - did you really like shit like "Hole in your heart"
(pun intended) and going through the motions on fading lights?
But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
>Tarzan ?
Because he wanted to. His decision - tough shit if you dont agree. He gave
enough to the band. You only liked his records - you dont own him.
Whata hoot. But I have to admit
>the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
>Phil in a progressive mood...
They havent been in a progressive mood since the seventies - didnt you
notice?
>
>Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis.
Yeah right - remember he's probably the best drummer out there - and writes
a tune or too and sings as well....ummmmmm he might just have made it anyway
you know!!!!!!
. Otherwise, the way it is now,
>Phil ruined Genesis.
Bollocks!
--
Doug
"Does Earth Plug a Hole in Heaven...............
........Or Heaven Plug a Hole in Earth............"
gpen...@my-deja.com
rarely, if ever, listen to 80's Genesis; but, Phil Collins did NOT ruin
Genesis. In fact, he was critical to the band during almost every
phase of their career. Which is why I don't see them lasting much
longer without him. I don't miss Phil's pop tendencies at all, but I
miss his drumming and his arranging. He was the glue to the band.
When he joined the band in 1970 he raised their musicianship to another
level. He took the complex and obscure songs of the early 70's and
helped mold them into musical classics. I don't have to mention what
he did for the band in 1975 and, although I'm not a fan of this period,
he took Genesis into the 80's and helped them change with the times to
become one of the all-time most successful bands ever. I certainly
prefer Peter's post-1975 path than Genesis', but Philip David Charles
Collins will forever be a legacy to the Genesis.
Greg
In article <7kvk3o$de...@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
gpen...@my-deja.com
adonisv
tradition. But, there is no Genesis after Lamb Lies Down, Foxtrot and
Selling England by the Pound. I think those were the last ones. And also, NO
ONE I mean NO ONE has ever done anything as brilliant and original as what
Genesis with Gabriel did.
Michael
Nic Caciappo
>
> Phil did not ruin Genesis - HE SAVED THEM!!!
With what? Face Value and his own more important solo career? This only
made Genesis go for hits rather than good albums. And what good did it
do since Phil turned his back on them.
> he is one of the best singers in the world.
He most certainly is, when he's singing good songs, not commercial crap
like One More Night .
> Ray Wilson should be shot - he is SHIT!!!
I think he's okay, he shouldn't be in Genesis, he should be in Tony
Banks solo ensemble.
> That is why CAS was crap. Genesis are now on hold due to the poor reception
> of CAS.
CAS was an okay album considering. The melodies and the progressiveness
of CAS were good. It would have been even better if Phil contributed to
the idea.
If Phil was there, they would still be one of the worlds greatest
> bands.
As long as there were good songs. The problem with all of music today in
the popular mainstream and major labels is that everyone just wants to
get hits, no one wants to do a good album or do adventurous music. These
things have a way of stabbing you in the back if you strive for hits.
Maybe you'll get one, or a few, but eventually the market changes and
your left out in the cold still trying to duplicate Owner of an Achy
Breaky Heart.
> Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
> concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
Oh, I see. You like that syrupy sugar coated fluff pop Genesis did.
Gabriel had a rough voice alright, but he had a way of singing with
emotion that I couldn't resist. Dylan, Springsteen and Waits have all
made huge careers from screaming like pigs.
> GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!, not Phil, so have a rethink, hey?
Gabriel shouldn't have left either. But they were fine without him for
TWO albums as far as a large part of their fanbase was concerned. When
Hackett quit that was the last straw. Phil basically took over from
there and messed with the band's image and style. Phil is the goat. By
the way, how old are you and how far back do you go with Genesis?
Nic
Nic Caciappo
That is a very good point. But they did continue to do some of that with
the new guy, Hackett. It was lost completely when Hackett left.
Nic
SMACCIO
music. Phil pigeon-holed Genesis into the soft-rock genre. When it became
difficult for the general public to distinguish between solo work and Genesis,
someone should have said something or an effort needed to be taken to seperate
the two. Of course nothing was done. Phil's solo career sold a gajillion
albums and that boosted Genesis sales...until people started to grow tired of
Phil. Doesn't matter what Genesis puts out now, they are Phil's backup band
without Phil or "Creedence Clearwater Rivival without John Fogerty" to the
public.
Scott
"And the turtles of course...all turtles are free. As turtles and, maybe, all
creatures should be."
-Dr. Seuss
Check out my site at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/3614/
James and/or Karen Clay
Anyway, great post. I couldn't agree more.
Jim
Gonçalo Botelho de Sousa
And if you think he screamed like a pig and he didn't concentrate on the
music, then you don't know anything about early Genesis...
Carl <ca...@hangon.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48Mc3.4768$w61.2285@stones...
>
> Phil did not ruin Genesis - HE SAVED THEM!!!
> he is one of the best singers in the world.
> Ray Wilson should be shot - he is SHIT!!!
> That is why CAS was crap. Genesis are now on hold due to the poor
reception
> of CAS. If Phil was there, they would still be one of the worlds greatest
> bands.
> Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
> concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
> GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!, not Phil, so have a rethink, hey?
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl
>
>
F.B.
<sha...@psnw.com> writes:
>
>Time for Shawn's Opinions (tm). The opinions expressed are mine and
mine
>alone, so treat them as such and don't be a dickhead!! :)
>
Genesis
>> albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
>> think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
>> Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not
as
>> adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff
like
>> Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>>
>
tell me
>that "Deep In the Motherlode", "Burning Rope" and "The Lady Lies"
aren't
>fantastic pieces of music.
I dislike most of side two of ATTWT, especially The Lady Lies, Say It's
Alright Joe and Scene's From a Night's Dream. I like the first side
fine enough, though; in fact, I put Down and Out in my top ten of all
Genesis songs.
As for Duke and "Misunderstanding" and "Turn It
>On Again", I happen to find both of these to be great tunes. In fact,
the
>whole Duke album is fantastic. Even "Please Don't Ask".
I think Duke was really good; I think it and Abacab best represent the
post-Hackett Genesis.
>
>> Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?...
lame
>> lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
Yeah, Who Dunnit is incredibly awful, but it is only one track, and not
a particularly long one, either.
>> Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects
to
>> suck! (Not to forget Yes OYE)
Side one is really good, I think. But, I agree that side two is
terrible.
>>
>
>No argument there.
>
>> However, things started to change for the better a little bit with
We
>> Can't Dance. But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big
band?
>> Tarzan ? Dancing in the Light or whatever it was called? Then
"Genesis"
>> continues with a bloke named Ray Wilson? Whata hoot. But I have to
admit
>> the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done
with
>> made them... Genesis and Genesis fans. Otherwise, the way it is now,
>> Phil ruined Genesis.
>>
>
>First of all, you can't define what Genesis is or isn't. That's
absurd.
>That's like trying to define life. Can't be done.
Actually, it's quite easy.
Genesis change all the
>time. That's the great thing about them. Phil Collins did not ruin
>Genesis. He simply took the group to a different demension.
I wouldn't call it 'ruining' because I don't think that the majority of
the phil-minus-Steve albums suck. But, it is indisputable that
Genesis, under the leadership of Phil Collins, mostly abandoned their
progressive roots, became a hit machine, and adapted their sound to one
far closer to mainstream than it ever was with Peter and Steve.
If not-progressive means sucking to you, then, yes, Phil ruined the
band.
They went to
>pop, not because of ONLY Phil. Mike, Tony, and Phil all made a
collective
>decision not to be trapped by their own past and decided to try to
please a
>lot more people than just biggoted shitheads like you.
'Trapped in their past?' ATOTT and WW sound quite different from the
PG material, not like a rehash of it. There *were* prog bands able to
change their sound regularly but stay more musically adventurous than
Genesis did in their later years (King Crimson comes to mind).
And it worked.
>There is nothing wrong with trying to expand your fanbase. Sorry, but
if
>Genesis would've stayed progressive, they wouldn't be around right
now.
>Face it, asshole, progressive rock as a genre is DEAD.
>
>Have a nice fucking day.
Why do you take any criticism of Genesis personally? I don't agree
with all of his points, but he makes a number of factual assertions
that can't be denied.
Matt P
Mark Erasure
Carl wrote in message <48Mc3.4768$w61.2285@stones>...
>
>Phil did not ruin Genesis - HE SAVED THEM!!!
>he is one of the best singers in the world.
>Ray Wilson should be shot - he is SHIT!!!
>That is why CAS was crap. Genesis are now on hold due to the poor reception
>of CAS. If Phil was there, they would still be one of the worlds greatest
>bands.
>Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
>concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
>GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!, not Phil, so have a rethink, hey?
>
>Thanks
>
>Carl
>
could see Phil slowly gaining ascendancy. I recall in '78 noticing who wrote
what and thinking I hope Phil's not too involved with the writing on the
next album. as 2 or the 3 tracks he co-wrote were my least favorites. Duke
seems like THE transitional album. Unfortunately, in my view, they scored
big hits with the poppier style that it seems Phil was esp. pushing for. The
more old style tracks like Heathhaze and Cul-de-sac don't sit too
comfortable along side Misunderstanding and Turn it on Again. Seems the
more striped down abacab homogenized the prog elements w/ the newer style,
but unfortunately it was mostly a watering down of things....
I think that when Nic said before that 'Phil ruined Genesis' what he really
meant, maybe, was that Phil eventually ruined . Genesis. I wouldn't say
'ruined' possibly irrevocably damaged. His influence, (and the lure of
money and the changing music scene), 'worked its magic' and over the course
of time Genesis emerged shadows of their former selves. I'd say he 'saved'
them by converting them to a belief system that finds its religious
persuasion in the world of pop radio. Maybe he left them in 94 (?) because
he saw that the music he'd led them to no longer had big hit potential in
the era of gtrs and grunge. An article title I once dreamed up, just for
fun, was "How to Ruin a Band in Three Cheesy Albums -- An Interview with
Phil Collins". That's hyperbole in my book, but basically expresses how I
feel.
Mark Erasure
James and/or Karen Clay wrote in message <37745EC5...@MegsInet.net>...
>Hey man, how did you know what I was going to write?
>Anyway, great post. I couldn't agree more.
>Jim
>
Gabriel's departure people would come up to the remaining members and say,
'We heard the bad news, sorry to hear it's the end of Genesis.' Then 20
years later I'm sure most of the general public had pretty much the same
perspective. Most probably always saw it as 'Phil Collins' band', and when
he left they thought well no use to think about them anymore. The same case
as before, people assuming it was Phil that had written all the music.
>
>SMACCIO wrote:
>
>> I think Phil did do some damage to Genesis. But it has little to do with
the
>> music. Phil pigeon-holed Genesis into the soft-rock genre. When it
became
>> difficult for the general public to distinguish between solo work and
Genesis,
>> someone should have said something or an effort needed to be taken to
seperate
>> the two. Of course nothing was done. Phil's solo career sold a
gajillion
>> albums and that boosted Genesis sales...until people started to grow
tired of
>> Phil. Doesn't matter what Genesis puts out now, they are Phil's backup
band
>> without Phil or "Creedence Clearwater Rivival without John Fogerty" to
the
>> public.
>>
>> Scott
>>
LMDARLING
(SMACCIO) writes:
>r an effort needed to be taken to seperate
>the two. Of course nothing was done. Phil's solo career sold a gajillion
>albums and that boosted Genesis sales...until people started to grow tired of
>Phil.
I'm a little confused here, I think....WCD certainly was in the very multiple
platinum region. Now, Both Sides and Dance Into the Light did "relatively"
poor business (selling , what, a few million apiece, with high grossing tours,
which is still much better than Calling All Stations), and right now people
don't seem very tired of Phil at all....Tarzan is currently #10 on the
Billboard charts, and You'll Be In My Heart debuted at #34 in the Hot 100
singles chart, while still holding at #1 in the AC singles chart. And, Hits
was certified platinum (selling 1 million copies) in June in the US.
Now, it would have been interesting to see what CAS sales (let's assume the
same songs, etc etc) would have been with Phil as vocalist, but we'll never
know if the people who seemed 'tired' during the BS and DITL sales would have
been tired of CAS with Phil as vocalist.
I do think it's relatively safe to assume that a CAS tour with Phil as vocalist
would have sold much much better than the CAS tour indeed did.
Linda Darling
Carl
but he should not have left, maybe if he were still there, they may not have
stood the test of time. I recall on the "Archive" interview on VH1, Peter
saying he would never go back to the band - he's moved on.
Mike Rutherford said he couldn't believe Phil stayed so long with his solo
career on top form.
Phil Collins said that he would go back to band if he could be the drummer
only.
As for how old I am - I'm only just turned 20. I was introduced to Genesis
in school music class at the age of about 13, so I was a fan in the Collins
era.
I like some of Peter's stuff including genesis and solo projects.
No one ruined Genesis except maybe the ever changing music world. They need
to change with the scene and I don't think Ray Wilson can help them do that.
Incidentally, Mike & The Mechanics new single seems to have a bit of a dance
tune to it so maybe we will hear it in clubs?
Everyone seems to slag Phil off on this newsgroup, but maybe if Phil had not
joined, they may not be remembered as well as they are today.
So please don't slag Phil off, Gabriel is as much to blame as Phil is.
Maybe they should get a new lead singer to lead them to new heights
Signing Off
Take Care everyone
Carl
Carl
Well done - my point exactly!!!
Carl
Slubberdegullion <*nospam*@cwcomnet> wrote in message
<3773e...@news1.mcmail.com>...
>
>
>Nic Caciappo wrote in message <3772D9...@earthlink.net>...
>>Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis
>>albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
>>think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
>>Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
>>adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
>>Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>>
>>Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
>>lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
>
>Sorry - you are actually talking complete bollocks here. Abacab was a
great
>new direction and is a great album. Much better that they did that - than
>followed the course of Yes - guitar solo - keyboard solo - tree hugging
>hippy lyrics - guitar solo - keyboard solo - more guitar - more keyboards -
>bridge - end........yuck.
>>
>>Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
>>suck!
>
>Mama - may be one of the greatest tracks they did - and Home by the Sea
aint
>bad either....this must mean your talking bollocks again.
>
>>Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
>>singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
>>Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
>
>Oh yeah right - and somehow you imagine than Banks and Rutherford had a
>problem playing this music?? How did you reach that conclusion?
>>
>>However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
>>Can't Dance.
>
>Ha hA!!!! Now its proven - your a looney - WCD was their worst album!!! CAS
>beats it hands down - did you really like shit like "Hole in your heart"
>(pun intended) and going through the motions on fading lights?
>
> But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
>>Tarzan ?
>Because he wanted to. His decision - tough shit if you dont agree. He gave
>enough to the band. You only liked his records - you dont own him.
>
>Whata hoot. But I have to admit
>>the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
>>Phil in a progressive mood...
>
>They havent been in a progressive mood since the seventies - didnt you
>notice?
>
>>
>>Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis.
>
>Yeah right - remember he's probably the best drummer out there - and writes
>a tune or too and sings as well....ummmmmm he might just have made it
anyway
>you know!!!!!!
>
>
>. Otherwise, the way it is now,
>>Phil ruined Genesis.
>
SMACCIO
Nothing to be confused about. With WCD, Phil had finally tired out a lot of
people. After their last hit the song WCD (despite being written by Mike) a
lot of people were tired with Phil. He had some form exposure almost every
year for I'm guessing since at least '84. Phil made himself into an icon of the
'80s wheather he knew it or not. Now that it's seven years later, Phil with
the help of Disney, is making the comeback (that I predicted about a year or
two ago) he is introcing himself to the kids, the one's who buy the singles.
I think it will help him even more than it helped Elton John, because I think
Phils solo work can appeal to the kids outside of Disney promotion, but it
wouldn't hurt for him to do something else with Disney 4-5 years from now
either.
Where is Genesis left though? If Phil had left at some point when his solo
career first took off. The band could have kept their own identity, not sold
as many albums, but would still be able to sell albums in the 1990s.
Scott
"And the turtles of course...all turtles are free. As turtles and, maybe, all
creatures should be."
-Dr. Seuss
LMDARLING
(SMACCIO) writes:
>Where is Genesis left though? If Phil had left at some point when his solo
>career first took off. The band could have kept their own identity, not sold
>as many albums, but would still be able to sell albums in the 1990s.
>
That's an interesting thought -- what if Phil had left when Face Value became
such an unexpected success? How many singers would have stayed with their
current bands at that point?
It's always sort of fun playing 'alternate universe' games -- granted, no one
expected Genesis to survive when Peter left, but who knows how Genesis would
have done if they hadn't finally settled on Phil as the singer? Or, what Peter
had never quit? What if Phil had quit instead? (Or Tony, or Mike?) If Phil's
first marriage had been blissfully happy, would he ever actually turned to
writing full songs, or would he have been content with arranging and input into
other's creations, as he had been up to that point for the most part? What if
Phil had never written In the Air Tonight (at least, I always see that as a
defining song that put Phil on the map as a solo star immediately).
Timothy Ross
LMDARLING wrote:
I always thought that In The Air Tonight should have been a Genesis song. I think
if it had Genesis would have been much larger than they were.
B.E. Wicks
observations on my part.
-1- Phil Collins was more than a drummer. His distinct vocals and musical
attributes served Genesis for years and took them to levels that were unseen
during the Gabriel Years. I will miss his showmanship at concerts (assuming
the band rediscovers America under the current configuration), but to quote
from a song..
"The old days are gone, and they are better left alone. I can not help you,
its much too late.."
-2- Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your subject line is going to
open you up to flames (as in Feeding the Fire, hehehe). But that's okay, as
I like to watch some dynamic debate.
I won't participate in rating the various singers of the band (meaningless,
IMHO, because their unique sound only enhances that period of Genesis), nor
will I flame any one with op-eds different from mine. I would ask that
anyone else responding to the post refrain from being nasty. There may be
young'uns about, you know. ;-)
But then again, this is alt.music.genesis, after all.. ::smirk::
Bryan
=/\= theDittoheadTrekkieGenesisFANatic who would probably be a horrible
peacemaker.
B.E. Wicks
news:7kvk3o$de...@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de...
> Nic seems to live beyond the Silver rainbow. If that's what he needs...
ROFL... LMAO... I can condone replies like that... ;-)
Note to Nic: its all a part of being in this newsgroup. Just roll with it.
Bryan
=/\= theDittoheadTrekkieGenesisFANatic
SMACCIO
of alt.history.what-if. I have thought about Gabriel staying with Genesis.
Doesn't seem sensless that Tony was so stubborn not to let anyone do anything
outside of the band and just five years later they ALL do solo albums? They may
not have been able to keep Peter, but they definitely could have kept Steve.
Scott
>That's an interesting thought -- what if Phil had left when Face Value became
>such an unexpected success? How many singers would have stayed with their
>current bands at that point?
>
>It's always sort of fun playing 'alternate universe' games -- granted, no one
>expected Genesis to survive when Peter left, but who knows how Genesis would
>have done if they hadn't finally settled on Phil as the singer? Or, what
>Peter
>had never quit? What if Phil had quit instead? (Or Tony, or Mike?) If
>Phil's
>first marriage had been blissfully happy, would he ever actually turned to
>writing full songs, or would he have been content with arranging and input
>into
>other's creations, as he had been up to that point for the most part? What
>if
>Phil had never written In the Air Tonight (at least, I always see that as a
>defining song that put Phil on the map as a solo star immediately).
>
>
>
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS
I disagree although anytime a member leaves or is replaced, this on running
debate rages (see FISH Vs.. STEVE HOGARTH, TREVOR RABIN Vs... STEVE HOWE,
DAVID LEE ROTH vs.. SAMMY HAGAR vs.. GARY CHERONE, OLD STAR TREK vs.. NEW
STAR TREK so on and so on)
My feeling is that GENESIS as a whole always tried heading in different
directions which eventually gained them mass appeal (although everyone
seems to forget
that every record had a tip of the hat to us prog heads see DOMINO or DODO).
I can't say it was just PHIL because both TONY"s solo records and the MIKE
and THE MECHANICS (include acting very strange) all show signs of where each
member was musically and still is as witnessed by CALLING ALL
STATIONS. CAS is a good outing but the "hits" just keep on coming and
where's PHIL to blame? TheCAS tour the setlist also contained more of the
"hits" than before. Where's the oldies, guys? IF PHIL caused all the
"pop"tunes why did the current GENESIS record contain more of the same.
Could it be that the remaining members were also writing the pop songs as
well?
Which reminds what's wrong with writing music for TARAN? Or for that matter
the BIG BAND approach? In my mind he (PHIL is expanding his talent). Instead
if doing the usual grind (see YES).
As for STEVE HACKETT. He was a huge part of the TOTT and W&W sound but since
HIGHLY STRUNG, STEVE hasn't made a solid prog rock record. Someone should
tell him not to sing! Steve efforts have been 50/50 at best.
Of course I'm leaving out PETER GABRIEL who although stays as adventurous as
ever is still not above writing an all out pop tune.
PHIL ruined GENESIS. No. GENESIS developed as they did on every record.
Sometimes the effect was less then stellar (Invisible Touch) sometimes
interesting (MAMA,HOME BY THE SEA) often exciting (BURNING ROPE, CUL E SAC,
FADING LIGHTS). One thing you
can always say about GENESIS (unlike YES) they never did just for the money.
GEORGE
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS
Herzog Willi
Carl wrote:
> Phil did not ruin Genesis - HE SAVED THEM!!!
> he is one of the best singers in the world.
> Ray Wilson should be shot - he is SHIT!!!
> That is why CAS was crap. Genesis are now on hold due to the poor reception
> of CAS. If Phil was there, they would still be one of the worlds greatest
> bands.
> Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
> concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
> GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!Thanks
Oh my God !
You must be a simple Pop-Fan in the worst cace, a hitparade-listener or
something like that. Gabriel was a true performer and Wilson is in the opinion
of most of the fans, who saw Genesis last year live, the real one to bring
Genesis back to their roots. Collins was fine during the first albums after
Peter quit, but the end of the Genesis-Aera with Collins was just pure crap.
Collins turned them to his backingband, no signs of the great band they were
before was there, so everyone was finally glad when Collins left. Collins
should do his own material (which I have all respect for), but thanx again he
left the band, so they are no dumb hitparader now and can concentrate on fine
music. Maybe Collins is too much after money and stardom, Wilsonæ„€ voice and
his cool habits are more nicely to watch as the fucking millionaire Collins
became.
Think about this !
Macrush
Wolfgang Schwan
>Yes, I am a very big fan of alternative history theories. I was once a
regular
>of alt.history.what-if. I have thought about Gabriel staying with Genesis.
>Doesn't seem sensless that Tony was so stubborn not to let anyone do anything
>outside of the band and just five years later they ALL do solo albums? They
may
>not have been able to keep Peter, but they definitely could have kept Steve.
>
>Scott
Yes, but Steve wouldn't let them have Follow You Follow Me the way they did
it. So, no first big hit. No big cashing 78 world tour. No time for solo
outings in 79. Instead we might have got Phil Collins singing Hoping Love Will
Last on a Genesis album. Alternate histories suck.
;-)
Wolfgang
SMACCIO
problems with F-You, F-Me? The lyrics were better on the latter.
Scott
>Yes, but Steve wouldn't let them have Follow You Follow Me the way they did
>it. So, no first big hit. No big cashing 78 world tour. No time for solo
>outings in 79. Instead we might have got Phil Collins singing Hoping Love
>Will
>Last on a Genesis album. Alternate histories suck.
>;-)
>
>Wolfgang
>
>
Pac...@webtv.net
"Selling England" over and over again? That way, they would've stayed
true to their prog roots & kept their credibility!
*Pacidy rolls eyes*
Pacidy
Shawn
>
> This argument might be valid had Genesis ever recycled itself prior to
> Duke, but they hadn't. How was The Lamb, Trick of the Tail or Wind and
> Wuthering a recycle of anything they'd done before?
> It wasn't. And there's no reason to suspect that if they'd stayed
> prog, they would have recycled their past.
Had Genesis stayed prog, they would've been deceased long ago, along with
the rest of progressive rock.
Shawn
F.B.
writes:
This argument might be valid had Genesis ever recycled itself prior to
Duke, but they hadn't. How was The Lamb, Trick of the Tail or Wind and
Wuthering a recycle of anything they'd done before?
It wasn't. And there's no reason to suspect that if they'd stayed
prog, they would have recycled their past.
Matt P
Michael Julian Topper
>Had Genesis stayed prog, they would've been deceased long ago...
Just think...Hackett leaves and the band breaks up in 1977. The
other members go on to their solo projects, but there are no new
Genesis albums...
Their record would be *perfect*.
Michael
B.E. Wicks
Michael Julian Topper <mto...@ucla.edu> wrote in message
news:7l7vjr$501$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu...
ACK! ACK!
That would mean no Duke! No Calling All Stations!
::shudder::
The world would be a far more sadder place.. IMHO
Bryan
=/\= theDittoheadTrekkieGenesisFANatic who is thankful that there is NO Dark
Side to Genesis ::smirk::
Wolfgang Schwan
Shawn schrieb...
Jon Poletti
>
>Michael Julian Topper <mto...@ucla.edu> wrote in message
>news:7l7vjr$501$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu...
>> "Shawn" <sha...@psnw.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Had Genesis stayed prog, they would've been deceased long ago...
>>
>> Just think...Hackett leaves and the band breaks up in 1977. The
>> other members go on to their solo projects, but there are no new
>> Genesis albums...
>>
>> Their record would be *perfect*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>
>ACK! ACK!
>
>That would mean no Duke! No Calling All Stations!
Phil Collins would have made Duke anyway.
CAS? Well, I think we could have lived without that one......
Jon
Pac...@webtv.net
when I said that.... :-)
Pacidy
Shawn
credible to the Genesis name as anything else. It's a new style. There is
NOTHING wrong with that. Genesis have gone through about 3 or 4 different
styles. All of which don't sound anything like the style that preceeded it.
It's all Genesis and will always be Genesis.
Shawn
F.B. <ltri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7l9aul$d...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com...
> In <09Dd3.240$gp1....@typ22b.nn.bcandid.com> "Shawn"
> <sha...@psnw.com> writes:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> This argument might be valid had Genesis ever recycled itself prior
> to
> >> Duke, but they hadn't. How was The Lamb, Trick of the Tail or Wind
> and
> >> Wuthering a recycle of anything they'd done before?
> >> It wasn't. And there's no reason to suspect that if they'd stayed
> >> prog, they would have recycled their past.
> >
> >Had Genesis stayed prog, they would've been deceased long ago, along
> with
> >the rest of progressive rock.
> >
> >Shawn
> >
> >
> That may be true, but it's an entirely different argument. Personally,
> I'd rather have seen them quit after Phil left than continue to
> disgrace their name.
>
> Matt P
F.B.
Mabel Daniels
this the alt.music. I hate Phil Collins guts I wish he would drop dead
because he is the anti-christ newsgroup? Just wondering.
JVO33
I'm a 28 year old guy..so obviously I don't remember the glory days with Peter
Gabriel and such. The first Genesis song I recall hearing was No Reply At
All...first I album I actually bought was Invisible Touch.
To tell you the truth I was a casual fan of Genesis until just a few years
ago...probably because of the overwhelming airplay of Phil's solo and later
Genesis songs. Everytime you turned on the radio or MTV..there was Phil.
Perhaps an overkill fill of Phil??
I got WCD when it first came out, and was fairly unimpressed... I didn't catch
the tour because of a few reasons. At this point I only had the 3 most recent
albums in my collection.
When the announcement came that Phil was not returning to Genesis..I was not
surprised at all.Then came CAS..On first listen I wasn't impressed, but it
really grew on me. I think it's a fine effort. I can relate to several of those
songs due to some recent changes in my life.
Finally I then went back and discovered the history of Genesis..Duke was
first..Duchess was a real find!!...then came ATOTT..totally blown away...is now
my all time fav Genesis album. then came SEBTP...next ATTWT..then "The
Lamb"..Seconds Out..Nursury Cryme, W&W..Foxtrot..Abacab.......
Genesis has become my all time favorite band in the last few years..it's pretty
amazing to cover some 25+ years worth of music in less than a two year span. I
just love the changes and styles from album to album...they never repeated
themselves, a great sense of humor,
and simply a unique band of legendary status.
Im a fan of Gabriels and Collins solo work as well...Both having very different
qualities. to appreciate. You simply can't compare the two..you either like em'
or don't
Who's to say what Genesis "sounds" like, I can appreciate each album
differently and enjoy them individually. If I had to pick my least favorite, it
would be Duke. My personal fav is ATOTT....I think "The Lamb" is a strange &
very fascinating work..IT is a terrific collection of Pop/Prog songs
nor Phil nor Peter ruined Genesis...Genesis is simply ...Genesis
or as Peter once sang.....Yeah It's only knock & knowall..but I like it
Barabus
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS wrote in message <7l4et8$t...@news1.snet.net>...
amazing blather! Nothing ruined Genesis they just went in a different
direction. Who wants to keep putting out the same material disk after disk
... worse yet who wants to listen to it?! I prefer the earlier work with PG
but as members felt it was time to explore different avenues they did what
was right for them at the time. I'm very happy that the separate members
have put out more personal pieces. Hackett's Acolyte and his most recent
Darktown are masterpieces that never would have happened if Genesis hadn't
evolved in another direction.
As for Phil RUINING GENESIS ... if he hadn't the talent to pull the whole
show together after Lamb, ToTT never would have happened. Phil was the
saviour of Genesis after PG left. At that time everyone thought Genesis
would be history without PG.
Collins has taken alot of bashing for his musical direction(s) but for a guy
who steped out from behind a drumset where (other than accomplished
drummers) no one really paid any attention to him, he did an amazing job of
fronting the band. Cut the man some slack!
Timothy Ross
Jon Poletti wrote:
Duke without Tony's and Mike's input? I can't imagine it.
Chuck Ungar
I think we know who's smoking crack here pinhead.
Shawn <sha...@psnw.com> wrote in message
news:viXd3.95$ue4....@typ32b.nn.bcandid.com...
> Disgrace their name?! Quit smoking crack dude. The music on CAS is just
as
> credible to the Genesis name as anything else. It's a new style. There
is
> NOTHING wrong with that. Genesis have gone through about 3 or 4 different
> styles. All of which don't sound anything like the style that preceeded
it.
> It's all Genesis and will always be Genesis.
>
> Shawn
>
> F.B. <ltri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:7l9aul$d...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com...
SMACCIO
>I think we know who's smoking crack here pinhead.
At last an explanation for Chuck's posting habits.
Scott
Shawn
Wolfgang Schwan <wolfgan...@s3ag.de> wrote in message
news:#T9EAe4w#GA....@nih2naaa.prod2.compuserve.com...
> No this is alt.music.genesis, the best place in the world for an unbiassed
> discussion about Mr. Collins. The other group you were talking about is
called
> rec.music.progressive.
>
> Where do *you* come from? From the alt.music. I'll always love Phil
Collins
> whatever crap he may produce because it is what he wants to do newsgroup?
>
> Wolfgang
>
> Mabel Daniels schrieb in Nachricht
> <6549-377...@newsd-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
F.B.
writes:
>You read too much into it, Matt. My tongue was planted firmly in cheek
>when I said that.... :-)
>
> Pacidy
>
My bad. My inability to detect sarcasm without a smiley is well
documented.
Matt P
F.B.
writes:
>
>Disgrace their name?! Quit smoking crack dude. The music on CAS is
just as
>credible to the Genesis name as anything else. It's a new style.
There is
>NOTHING wrong with that. Genesis have gone through about 3 or 4
different
>styles. All of which don't sound anything like the style that
preceeded it.
>It's all Genesis and will always be Genesis.
>
>Shawn
Well, I think CAS 1) is pretty bad music, and 2) isn't Genesis anymore.
Matt P
Wolfgang Schwan
CMarti3551
their U.S. fans. Do they only play stadiums?
Timothy Ross
Care to support these opinions?
Chomz78
>Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis
>albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
>think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
>Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
>adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
>Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>
>Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
>lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
>
>Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
>suck! (Not to forget Yes OYE)
>
>Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
>singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
>Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
First off... Phil never treated Genesis like a backing band, never. His work
with Banks and Rutherford is different from his solo material. I enjoy Genesis
albums more than PCs solo albums.
What i dont understand is why would they have to take so much shit from fans
like you? See, if they didnt attempt to make music for money, then i'd bet
that we wouldnt be hear talking about this. Would this AMG exist?
Genesis became good at making money, and they shouldnt be shit on for that. I
wish i could write music and make the money they are/did.
I enjoy the older material much better, but it is nice to be able to answer the
question "what are you listening to?" with Older Genesis, and not get a "Who
is that??"
I love Marillion, but i hate having to pay $$$$ for imports, or having to
explain who they are! Genesis is well know
Another thing... if genesis didnt put POP out there i would have not gotten
into them, and maybe my music taste would be this typical american shit taste.
Funny thing, even the short songs mentioned above are some of my favs!
>
>However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
>Can't Dance. But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
>Tarzan ? Dancing in the Light or whatever it was called? Then "Genesis"
>continues with a bloke named Ray Wilson? Whata hoot. But I have to admit
>the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
>Phil in a progressive mood... would've been great. But it's strange to
>think they are going to continue like this. They didn't even tour the
>USA for the first time.
and it was because atlantic wants to throw money into shit music, instead of
more prog music.
>
>Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis. He should get
>back with the guys and pick up where they left off with We Can't Dance
>and move even further into the direction of CAS... better yet, bring
>back Hackett too. Then we'll have a real Genesis again. After that, then
>move onto solo projects, but always come back to the institution that
>made them... Genesis and Genesis fans. Otherwise, the way it is now,
>Phil ruined Genesis.
id love to see this happen, but phil doesnt owe genesis anything, nothing at
all.
Maybe Genesis should owe phil something...afterall, Genesis' was fronted by a
man who was *common* and made many enjoy the concerts way before genesis was
GENESIS (POP). Also his drumming was and still is teriffic!
His vocals, well the man can sing boy, can he sing!
Id love to see Genesis now, but i'd love it even more if Phil Collins was still
in the group...drums and vocals, and his ability to take a crowd and mold them.
am i wrong?? <never :) >
Chomz
"You got a tux on, nothing's changed, you got a tux on
Lucky man with a tux on, you're still the same with a tux on"
--- Fish ---
Chomz78
>Collins does not have the voice to sing things (great
>things) like Dividing Line and Calling all Stations.
>
Funny thing here...we all know that Phil would do it well enough to make it
work. I still dont like thinking of Ray singing ICD or IT.
Phil has the vocals and talent to sing pretty much anything, and do it
mindblowingly well, or just good, but bad? no, i dont think so.
Chomz78
>Peter Gabriel screamed like a pig on most of the songs he "sang". Gabriel
>concentrated too much on costumes instead of the music.
>GABRIEL RUINED GENESIS!!!, not Phil, so have a rethink, hey?
>
With all do respect to pete, his vocals in genesis (most of) wouldnt compare to
phil's, even when phil is singing a pete song. I like Pete's voice alot now,
and im glad that the boxed set is vocally improved.
Pete did spend too much time with the other shit besides singing...BUT if he
didnt, Genesis would have been just another musical group...Pete gave em
headlines!
Chomz78
>Date: Sat, 26 June 1999 09:02 A
>Now, it would have been interesting to see what CAS sales (let's assume the
>same songs, etc etc) would have been with Phil as vocalist, but we'll never
>know if the people who seemed 'tired' during the BS and DITL sales would have
>been tired of CAS with Phil as vocalist.
>
>I do think it's relatively safe to assume that a CAS tour with Phil as
>vocalist
>would have sold much much better than the CAS tour indeed did.
>
>Linda Darling
>
>
I dont think it was a thing of being tired of phil, more of just a the music
didnt fit with what was popular at the time. Im glad it didnt, both albums and
cas is much better than what was in the top 100 at the time, and still is!
Chomz78
>Date: Sat, 26 June 1999 01:05 PM
> If Phil had left at some point when his solo
>career first took off. The band could have kept their own identity, not sold
>as many albums, but would still be able to sell albums in the 1990s.
really? like who, YES? The music would have had not taste to it. Just bland
material. I m glad Phil continued with the group, wish he was still there!
Chomz78
>Date: Sun, 27 June 1999 08:10 PM
>Yeah, it's all Phil's fault. Why didn't he just make the band recycle
>"Selling England" over and over again? That way, they would've stayed
>true to their prog roots & kept their credibility!
Great point! Why not just redo the material? Hell, that way we could bitch
about why they sound so much alike from album to album...mmmm..._Yes_ anyone?
Chomz78
I can if i was hyped up on CRACK
Chomz78
>Date: Wed, 30 June 1999 12:08 AM
>Genesis has become my all time favorite band in the last few years..it's
>pretty
>amazing to cover some 25+ years worth of music in less than a two year span.
>I
>just love the changes and styles from album to album...they never repeated
>themselves, a great sense of humor,
>
And that is why Genesis is so fucking great!
Think about it, if Genesis didnt have such a different sound thru out their
time, then this ng would suck! Everyone on here would enjoy the same thing, it
all sounds the same!
See my point, or am i just a pinhead on crack?? :)
Chomz78
>> No this is alt.music.genesis, the best place in the world for an unbiassed
>> discussion about Mr. Collins. The other group you were talking about is
>called
>> rec.music.progressive.
>>
>> Where do *you* come from? From the alt.music. I'll always love Phil
>Collins
>> whatever crap he may produce because it is what he wants to do newsgroup?
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
isnt this also known as alt.music.suckers-of-phil-collins-cock??
Chomz78
>
>Yeah!! David Lee Roth ruined Genesis!!!!
>
>:)
>
Son of a gun....why didnt i see this?? kickin myself right now!!
: )
SMACCIO
of Confusion and Throwing It All Away. I think those two would have been hits
with or without Phil. We may still have had Invisible Touch, but probably a
very different version...probably not even called Invisible Touch. They would
have still sold albums, but not a gizillion. They wouldn't be known as "Phil's
back-up band" to this day.
Scott
>
>>From: sma...@aol.com (SMACCIO)
>>Date: Sat, 26 June 1999 01:05 PM
>
>> If Phil had left at some point when his solo
>>career first took off. The band could have kept their own identity, not
>sold
>>as many albums, but would still be able to sell albums in the 1990s.
>
>really? like who, YES? The music would have had not taste to it. Just
>bland
>material. I m glad Phil continued with the group, wish he was still there!
>
>Chomz
>
>"You got a tux on, nothing's changed, you got a tux on
> Lucky man with a tux on, you're still the same with a tux on"
> --- Fish
Petec1978
mindblowingly well, or just good, but bad? no, i dont think so.>>
Butchered Fading Lights didn't he?
I too don't believe Phil is ballsy enough for the Dividing Line.
Petec1978
Land
of Confusion and Throwing It All Away. >>
Tony wrote Jesus He Knows Me.
I agree they would've survived..... but I don't know if they'd be as
financially secure or as able to do projects at will.
So for their sake, I'm glad Phil stayed.
SMACCIO
wanted to do? From what I remember they had some problems with a producer on
Foxtrot, What does Genesis do? Why get rid of the producer of course. I
don't know how they did it, but it seems to me since Trespass, they have escape
the creative control of labels. In the short term, selling a googabillion
albums is a great thing. The long term would depend on HOW those albums were
sold. Some were sold on the music alone, some on the catchy videos, but a lot
were sold on the household name of Phil Collins.
I think he should have left after 3SL. The self titled album would have
signaled the begining of a new era.
Scott
Scott Ellis
couldn't sell any tickets in the U.S. so they had to cancel the tour
here. anything Genesis put out after Phil arrived is classic.by the by,
can't wait for the second box set to come out! scott
LeadVOCALZ
Genesis
>couldn't sell any tickets in the U.S. so they had to cancel the tour
>here.
While I will not get into a subjective debate that can never be resolved, I
will say that I thoroughly enjoyed the album. Ray brings a beautifully rich
sound with his deeper harsher baritone (as opposed to Phil's shrill tenor) that
is truely reminiscent of the Gabriel days. Mike and Tony created some
beautifully woven layered music as usual (Alien Afternoon, One Man's Fool) and
even managed to capture the Genesis "drum sound" (The Dividing Line) without
Phil.
scottEllis wrote: >anything Genesis put out after Phil arrived is classic.by
the by,
>can't wait for the second box set to come out! scott
Yes Scott, the definitive Genesis sound will always be with Phil behind the mic
and the drums and I am truly sorry he left. But I am glad that Tony and Mike
have decided to move on with Ray and Nir. They have quite a task before them
in creating a new Genesis. IMO, some Genesis is better than no Genesis.
Mabel Daniels
Collins for everything crap" Every time a member of Genesis do a solo
recording and it does not do well who do you people blame? Phil of
course. Steve Hackett came out with an
album that did not get much publicity. Did Steve
get the blame for lack of publicity? No, blame
Phil "whipping boy" Collins fault because of
the Tarzan soundtrack. When Peter Gabriel
new cd comes out are you going to blame Phil
if it is not a success? Let's have some mature
discussions about Genesis without blaming
Phil for ruining Genesis ( which he damn well
did not do).
Shawn
Mabel Daniels <pre...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18275-37...@newsd-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
F.B.
writes:
I have for the last two years. If you missed the bus... sorry.
Matt P
Timothy Ross
"F.B." wrote:
Ranting on like this for two years? If there was any bus I'm glad that I
missed it.
Tim
F.B.
Ah yes -- the rallying cry of the mind-controlled fanboy: criticism is
'ranting' but slavish praise is considered thoughtful analysis.
Face it, dude, CAS is a big pile of shit that has killed whatever
credibility Rutherford and Banks have left after their embarassing solo
efforts of the last 15 years. I can appreciate something from every
era of Genesis (even have claimed that minus 4 or 5 weaker tracks, WCD
would be among the band's best) but sometimes you just can't be afraid
to call a spade a spade.
Matt P
Matt P
Timothy Ross
Maybe but calling a spade a spade for two years without ( evidently )
letting up is just as fanatical as you are calling me. I'm not so fanatical
that I like everything the band puts out but I do like CAS. I think that
it's alot better than most of their 80's output. You on the other hand do
not. Big deal. Our opinions differ. Nevertheless I still don't think that
you or anyone else has the right to say that they are no longer Genesis.
What Genesis is/is not is upto the individual fan to decide. Ifr you have
decided that they are not longer Genesis then fine. Dismissing me as
"fanboy" just because I happen to think something else is extremely close
minded.
Chomz78
>Date: Sat, 03 July 1999 10:26 PM EDT
Horse Hockey! Id love to hear him sing it
Chomz
"You got a tux on, nothing's changed, you got a tux on
Lucky man with a tux on, you're still the same with a tux on"
--- Fish ---
Dr. Makenin
apples to oranges to bananas. I happen to like all of it (all of Phil's
except for invisible touch and after).
Scott McMahan
> comparing phil genesis with gabriel genesis and new genesis is comparing
> apples to oranges to bananas.
They're all fruit.
Scott
Dr. Makenin
Scott McMahan wrote in message ...
GEORGE VASILOPOULOS
Two undeniable facts is:
Mike and Tony's solo records (I'm including M&TM) are not exactly
progressive onslaughts rather similar to what GENESIS was doing and CAS was
not a return to 1979 (good) and neither was the tour set list (closing
number I CAN'T DANCE).
I happen to like everything GENESIS has done in one form or another but PHIL
is not the one to blame if there is any blame to give.
george
Mabel Daniels wrote in message
<18275-37...@newsd-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
hagbardc...@gmail.com
> Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are two of my favorite Genesis
> albums, but the greatest loss of Genesis was Hackett, which is why I
> think Genesis went downhill after that. On And Then There Were Three
> Phil's singing style was- different. The tunes got shorter and not as
> adventurous. Follow You Follow Me? Duke was okay, but when stuff like
> Misunderstanding or Turn It (Off) Again comes in the flow, yuk!
>
> Then Abacab... NO Reply At All, Man On The Corner, Who Dunnit?... lame
> lame lame ! Yea.... Who Dunnit alright. Phil!
>
> Then the so-called "Mama" album.... yea, the mother of all projects to
> suck! (Not to forget Yes OYE)
>
> Meanwhile Phil Collins was becoming one of the most famous and richest
> singers in pop music with his own solo career. (Who 'da thunk?!) And
> Genesis (Banks & Rutherford) were becoming Phil's back up band.
>
> However, things started to change for the better a little bit with We
> Can't Dance. But then Phil split and ruined it all. For what? Big band?
> Tarzan ? Dancing in the Light or whatever it was called? Then "Genesis"
> continues with a bloke named Ray Wilson? Whata hoot. But I have to admit
> the tunes on CAS were nice, just imagine if it all had been done with
> Phil in a progressive mood... would've been great. But it's strange to
> think they are going to continue like this. They didn't even tour the
> USA for the first time.
>
> Phil wouldn't be anything today if it weren't for Genesis. He should get
> back with the guys and pick up where they left off with We Can't Dance
> and move even further into the direction of CAS... better yet, bring
> back Hackett too. Then we'll have a real Genesis again. After that, then
> move onto solo projects, but always come back to the institution that
> made them... Genesis and Genesis fans. Otherwise, the way it is now,
> Phil ruined Genesis.
>
> Nic
FUCK PHIL COLLINS.