Bev Leaves
meldiment
I was dismayed to learn that Bev Bevan had left ELO part 2 under some duress
from Jeff Lynne about using the ELO name. But the remaining band members
Have to go on in performing some of the old ELO hits allowing a new
generation the opportunity to listen to what a good band they were. I think
Jeff Lynne is a little jealous of part 2's success after all armchair
theatre wasn't a patch on the two new part 2 albums (ELO part 2 &moment of
truth), not including greatest hits live and one night.
I can only hope the new band (whatever the call themselves) continue touring
and bringing live music to the people who still want to pay to listen to it.
But I think that part 2 (or whatever), should play more of there own
material because it sounds pretty good stuff, Even when Pete Haycock & Neil
Lockwood left Phil Bates was brought in and the band improved.
When Phil left and was replaced by Parth the band sound didn't change that
much if Gordon can fit in as well as Parth did then you wont be able to the
join. I've seen the band from the New world record line up right up to the
present day and would hate not being able to treat myself to a night out
listening to the music I enjoy so much being played live.
--
Mel Diment
WildWeasel
don't agree at all about that.
While ELO Part 2 had been touring and making albums, Jeff cut his own
album, was an integral part of the Traveling Wilbury's, produced
albums for the Beatles , Paul McCartney solo and various other
projects with much higher profiles than anything ELO part 2 has come
close to accomplishing in the 90s. Jeff is doing what he wants and I
hope he's having a lot of fun doing it.
I also hope that with Bevan's departure from ELO Part 2 that a rumored
album with Lynne , Bevan and Tandy just may come true.
Phil's SongBook
>Jeff Lynne is a little jealous of part 2's success
part 2's success ??
ICQ 3348456
Chansons francophones
http://2phil.free.fr
Steven Acevedo
<meld...@arsenalfc.net> wrote:
>>
>>I was dismayed to learn that Bev Bevan had left ELO part 2 under some duress
>>from Jeff Lynne about using the ELO name. But the remaining band members
>>Have to go on in performing some of the old ELO hits allowing a new
>>generation the opportunity to listen to what a good band they were. I think
>>Jeff Lynne is a little jealous of part 2's success
What success? What they've succeeded in doing was in driving the
fandom out of its mind by creating a "Us Against Them" division among
fans of their music and Jeff's.
Jeff is far too intelligent to be jealous of them. They had their
chance but they misused the name.
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Jeff Cooper
>What success? What they've succeeded in doing was in driving the
>fandom out of its mind by creating a "Us Against Them" division among
>fans of their music and Jeff's.
Nonsense. What really is this big division? It is possible to be an ELO
Part 2 fan and a fan of Jeff's music too.
I would say Part 2 had success, yes. ELO Part 2's success could be said to
significantly out-weigh Jeff's too. Many would say that the past 10 years
have been better spent AND SUCCEEDED MORE in terms of creating new music (2
and a half albums if you count the new tracks on One Night??) and bringing
the music of ELO alive to new audiences world-wide by playing live to an
ecstatic audiences for a start.
>They had their chance but they misused the name.
I think not.
Jeff
red_...@my-deja.com
to parlay a short-term regrouping with a new album release into an
entry attempt to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, a la Fleetwood Mac a few
years back. And don't be entirely surprised to see more of the Part 2
gang on board if (and when) it all comes to pass. A ruse is a ruse is
a ruse in the business.
In article <39707539...@news.unidial.com>,
ri...@unidial.com (WildWeasel) wrote:
> You really think Jeff Lynne is jealous of ELO Part 2's success? I
> don't agree at all about that.
>
> While ELO Part 2 had been touring and making albums, Jeff cut his own
> album, was an integral part of the Traveling Wilbury's, produced
> albums for the Beatles , Paul McCartney solo and various other
> projects with much higher profiles than anything ELO part 2 has come
> close to accomplishing in the 90s. Jeff is doing what he wants and I
> hope he's having a lot of fun doing it.
>
> I also hope that with Bevan's departure from ELO Part 2 that a rumored
> album with Lynne , Bevan and Tandy just may come true.
>
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:06:18 +0100, "meldiment"
> <meld...@arsenalfc.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >I was dismayed to learn that Bev Bevan had left ELO part 2 under
some duress
> >from Jeff Lynne about using the ELO name. But the remaining band
members
> >Have to go on in performing some of the old ELO hits allowing a new
> >generation the opportunity to listen to what a good band they were.
I think
> >Jeff Lynne is a little jealous of part 2's success after all
armchair
> >theatre wasn't a patch on the two new part 2 albums (ELO part 2
&moment of
> >truth), not including greatest hits live and one night.
> >I can only hope the new band (whatever the call themselves) continue
touring
> >and bringing live music to the people who still want to pay to
listen to it.
> >But I think that part 2 (or whatever), should play more of there own
> >material because it sounds pretty good stuff, Even when Pete Haycock
& Neil
> >Lockwood left Phil Bates was brought in and the band improved.
> >When Phil left and was replaced by Parth the band sound didn't
change that
> >much if Gordon can fit in as well as Parth did then you wont be able
to the
> >join. I've seen the band from the New world record line up right up
to the
> >present day and would hate not being able to treat myself to a night
out
> >listening to the music I enjoy so much being played live.
> >
> >--
> >Mel Diment
> >
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steven Acevedo
<je...@jmcoop1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Steven A wrote:
>>What success? What they've succeeded in doing was in driving the
>>fandom out of its mind by creating a "Us Against Them" division among
>>fans of their music and Jeff's.
>
>Nonsense. What really is this big division? It is possible to be an ELO
>Part 2 fan and a fan of Jeff's music too.
Maybe. But not for me. I've tolerated it for as long as I could. Like
I said they had their chance to try and pull me in. I rarely play the
albums in my stereo.
The guys have the talent to be sure but let's be realistic here. They
NEVER needed to be ELO to prove they could sing or play instruments.
It was a cheap cop-out.
It was a crutch to relive old glories. Nothing more, nothing less.
I've seen both studio albums in record shops not even bought by anyone
else in the last ten years.
Dave
You never gave Part2 a chance to pull you in. You never did go to see
them play. The way they play live is what they have always done better
than Jeff's ELO. They have fun, they are exciting, they sound better
and they never tried to fool the audience and get caught like that scam
during the Out of the Blue tour. I still get a kick out of watching the
expression on Jeff's face on the live at Wembley video when he gets out
of sinc with the recorded vocals.
Dave
Dundagel
> What they've succeeded in doing was in driving the
>fandom out of its mind by creating a "Us Against Them" division among
>fans of their music and Jeff's.
Nahhh...fans create their own divisions...in music...in sports..and so on. The
band just plays music. :)
PeterV1962
>fandom out of its mind by creating a "Us Against Them" division among
>fans of their music and Jeff's.
Depends on how you define success! Surviving 10 years of threats of lawsuits
could be defined as success, Most ELO Part II concerts I have been to were very
well attended and the reactions of the people who saw those shows could define
success. Funny people said Bev and Part II were just trying to make a buck off
the past glories of ELO and all of a sudden here comes a rumor that Jeff is
"reforming" ELO... Hows that for looking to the past, especially since Armchair
Theater didn't make much of an impact on the music world. So Jeff may slap the
ELO name on the solo album he has been making for the last 10 years. Why not
re-release AT under the name ELO as well? after all Richard Tandy played on
most of the tracks on that. As far as the "us vs Them" thing. I like ELO and
ELO Part II. I recognized that they were 2 seperate entities as the name "ELO
Part II" clearly implies. I think most people have a problem with Jeffs ongoing
hassles to shut them down. Thats where the division comes from. I have spoken
to the members of ELO Part II and they don't say crap about Jeff, they seem
just as miffed at why he does what he does! We'll see just how much more
"successful" Jeff will be recording under the name ELO than Part II was.
Peter
to email please remove the "carwash" from the email address
john.kilcline
"Steven Acevedo" <ste...@jeff-lynne.net> wrote in message
news:2d8vmso2viuc2fsrt...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 22:16:30 +0100, "Jeff Cooper"
> <je...@jmcoop1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Steven A wrote:
>
> I've seen both studio albums in record shops not even bought by anyone
> else in the last ten years.
>
Exactly, youv'e seen them in the record shops!! That means someone IS buying
them, otherwise the shops don't display them!!
Sales space is valuable, so titles that don't sell are removed from display
to make way for titles that do!!
Now where were we? Oh yes i haven't seen Armchair Theatre in the record
shops!!! Plenty of copies showing up on Ebay though!!!!
Nuff said
;-) john
Steven Acevedo
The way I see it is that maybe no one except for a select few in the
industry will let Jeff forget he was in ELO.
Some fans didn't buy his solo record because it didn't have ELO on the
cd jewel case I would wager. Some of them never recovered from Jeff's
departure. Was it so important for him to continue in the band at the
expense of his own happiness just so we could have some music? I say
the more selfish fans are just as much to blame for his predicament
back then as the critics were.
I was a bit dissapointed at first but I realized early on that life
goes on without the group he was in. I looked fowarded to the albums
he produced with others and never built up my expectations based on
his run with the aforementioned band.
But then I know nothing but I'm willing to forgive him for whatever
he's done. I can't say the same for many other performers who do far
woprse than he ever could.
Jeff Cooper
>From: Dave <nos...@nospam.com>
>they (Part 2) never tried to fool the audience and get caught like that scam
>during the Out of the Blue tour. I still get a kick out of watching the
>expression on Jeff's face on the live at Wembley video when he gets out
>of sinc with the recorded vocals.
Damn right. Can vividly remember the original band getting the p*** well
and truly taken for this on BBC Radio 1 (think it was Souixsie Sue from the
Banshees of all people) on what I think was then the Round Table prog. where
new single releases would get reviewed.
One for the 'what happened next' section on the BBC's pop-quiz ???
!!
And from Steven A:
>The way I see it is that maybe no one except for a select few in the
>industry will let Jeff forget he was in ELO.
Sorry, I don't follow this at all.
>Some fans didn't buy his solo record because it didn't have ELO on the
>cd jewel case I would wager. Some of them never recovered from Jeff's
>departure.
Nor do I follow this. If they were such big Jeff Lynne fans then surely
they'd buy his solo CD, no?
>Was it so important for him to continue in the band at the
>expense of his own happiness just so we could have some music?
No it wasn't Steven and here I think you are quite right :)
>I say the more selfish fans are just as much to blame for his predicament
>back then as the critics were.
But then you lose me again here. What predicament? Jeff has always been the
master of his own destiny. I don't think 'selfish fans' (what does that mean
anyway) would influence his plans one jot!!
>I was a bit dissapointed at first but I realized early on that life goes on
without the
>group he was in.
Quite right. Couldn't agree more. Especially when ELO Part 2 came 'riding on
over the hill on a white charger' to rescue the day!!
I guess alot of ELO fans figured the same thing, Bev and the rest of the
guess certainly figured that too with the success that they enjoyed for 10
years as ELO Part 2. This will I'm sure no continue under the new name for
the remaining ex-ELO/ELO Part 2 guys.
Regards - Jeff
Jeff Cooper
>the remaining ex-ELO/ELO Part 2 guys.
Typo. Sorry! Of course I meant to say 'This will I'm sure *now*
continue...'!!
Jeff
Steven Acevedo
<je...@jmcoop1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Some fans didn't buy his solo record because it didn't have ELO on the
>>cd jewel case I would wager. Some of them never recovered from Jeff's
>>departure.
>
>Nor do I follow this. If they were such big Jeff Lynne fans then surely
>they'd buy his solo CD, no?
But here's the problem. Nobody save myuself and a few others bought
his album not because it was ELO but because it was Jeff Lynne. And at
the time if you associated anyone in ELO (Depending on who you would
run into) it would be Jeff Lynne or maybe not!
>>I say the more selfish fans are just as much to blame for his predicament
>>back then as the critics were.
>
>But then you lose me again here. What predicament? Jeff has always been the
>master of his own destiny. I don't think 'selfish fans' (what does that mean
>anyway) would influence his plans one jot!!
Yes, He's the master of his own destiny but did everyone who bought
the album remember that? Of course not. I believe it was over this
past decade that some in this NG wanted to push him aside and tell him
how to run his life according to the "fans' choices".
Please don't say there hasn't been any because I see it mentioned here
every so often. That's being selfish.
Remember Jeff wanted nothing to do with ELO at that time. But there
may have been a few who thought he was still in ELO but he wasn't. I
bought the music not just because he was in ELO but he's talented
enough to do it.
Anyway I'm tired of this. Think what you want. Just remember "The Band
Who Will Have A New Name Soon" aren't exactly perfect angels either.
Dundagel
>It was a crutch to relive old glories. Nothing more, nothing less.
Could we not say the same for Jeff's possible "reformation" of ELO? Just
curious.
ACS77
(Dundagel) writes:
>Could we not say the same for Jeff's possible "reformation" of ELO? Just
>curious.
Nope, because I always thought that Balance Of Power was an official Electric
Light Orchestra bookend, at least until ELO2 came along, kinda like what Star
Trek: Generations did for The Original Series by needlessly killing legendary
Captain James Tiberius Kirk after their terrific sendoff in Star Trek VI: The
Undiscovered Country and one final reunion could also put ELO back into the
media spotlight just long enough ie The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Black Sabbath,
Steely Dan, AC/DC et al so the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Cleveland would then
find no reason not to induct E.L.O.!
Rick Vendl II
ACS77
(Dundagel) writes:
>Could we not say the same for Jeff's possible "reformation" of ELO? Just
>curious.
Nope, because I always thought that Balance Of Power was an official Electric
Light Orchestra bookend, at least until ELO2 came along, kinda like what Star
Trek: Generations did for The Original Series by needlessly killing legendary
Captain James Tiberius Kirk after their terrific sendoff in Star Trek VI: The
Undiscovered Country and one final reunion album could also put ELO back into
Steven Acevedo
>Steven sez of ELO Part II:
>
>>It was a crutch to relive old glories. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
>Could we not say the same for Jeff's possible "reformation" of ELO? Just
>curious.
I'm not entirely sure it's his choice. I see this as a way for him to
bring about closure properly which is something he never did according
to some people.
Still we have to wait and see where this is headed. It's too soon to
make assumptions based on an article that just showed up in the NG a
few days ago.
Phil's SongBook
>"successful" Jeff will be recording under the name ELO than Part II was.
successful , i can't say, but talented, with great songs, i think the
man has already made his proof.
i'm still waiting for really inspired original songs from Elo 2
Jeff Cooper
>But here's the problem. Nobody save myself and a few others bought
>his album not because it was ELO but because it was Jeff Lynne. And at
>the time if you associated anyone in ELO (Depending on who you would
>run into) it would be Jeff Lynne or maybe not!
Right. That clears that up then.
>Anyway I'm tired of this.
Amen to that :)
>Just remember "The Band Who Will Have A New Name Soon" aren't exactly
perfect angels either.
Equally glad about that (they'd be pretty boring otherwise!). Or am I
missing some more sinister meaning in the above statement?!!
Jeff
John Kilcline
> From Steven A:
>
> >Just remember "The Band Who Will Have A New Name Soon" aren't exactly
> perfect angels either.
>
> Equally glad about that (they'd be pretty boring otherwise!). Or am I
> missing some more sinister meaning in the above statement?!!
>
> Jeff
Perhaps his "mom" knows something that we "mere mortals" have yet to find
out!!
;-) john
john.kilcline
> Who Will Have A New Name Soon" aren't exactly perfect angels either.
>
OR "he" has had another one of his prophetic dreams,
you know the ones where he gets into the mind of JL!!
We await further words on "the new coming"
;-) john
WildWeasel
old wounds I wouldn't be surprised to see Roy join in if Lynne, Bevan
and Tandy got back together to make a new album.
A great album from four great musicians would be fantastic in my
opinion.
PeterV1962
>man has already made his proof.
>i'm still waiting for really inspired original songs from Elo 2
then I suggest you pick up ELO Part II or Moment Of Truth..... much more
"inspired" than Balance Of Power or Secret Messages. Throw Armchair Theatre in
there too.
red_...@my-deja.com
[a] are Jeff Lynne
[b] know Jeff personally
[c] can guarantee that any of the lads will actually find this message
....here's the advice:
Somewhere in all of what you do, re-record a new updated version
of "Down on the Bay" with an "I Love L.A."-style video (or something
loosely along the lines of ZZ Top, if you prefer), just for the hell of
it. No faster way to recirculate the old name to a new grunge-tired
and rap-tired crowd. And, yes Virginia, any talk of reform MUST
include the TWO heavyweight frontmen! WHY NOT?!? Anyway, life's too
short not to give it all you've got with the focus on "fun" at this
point!
In article <3973104d...@news.unidial.com>,
ACS77
peter...@aol.comcarwash (PeterV1962) Peter writes:
>then I suggest you pick up ELO Part II or Moment Of Truth..... much more
>"inspired" than Balance Of Power or Secret Messages.
In your humble opinion (IYHO) only, you do not speak for me and certain other
fans!
>Throw Armchair Theatre in
>there too.
Although we do agree on this more or less, to me, Jeff Lynne solo, at least so
far anyway, and ELO2 were both equally uninspired...
Rick Vendl II
ACS77
peter...@aol.comcarwash (PeterV1962) Peter writes:
>then I suggest you pick up ELO Part II or Moment Of Truth..... much more
>"inspired" than Balance Of Power or Secret Messages.
In your humble opinion (IYHO) only, you do not speak for me and certain other
Electric Light Orchestra fans!
impliedi
bit off. When you say last TEN years, you include a lot of SIGNIFICANT Jeff
work...hmmm let's see, while ELO Part II released 2 and a half poorly-sold
albums, Jeff contributed to the Gold-selling single "Real Love", the
Gold-selling single "Free as a Bird", the 8-times platinum-selling Beatles
Anthology 1, the 4-times-platinum-selling Anthology 2, helped to write,
produce and play on Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers platinum-selling "Into
the Great Wide Open", contributed a song to the platinum-selling "Robin
Hood" soundtrack, had a solo song on a major soundtrack release "Deuce
Bigalow, Male Gigolo", contributed to the Gold-selling McCartney "Flaming
Pie", Roy Orbison's "King of Hearts", Ringo Starr's "Time Takes Time",
Julianna Raye's "Something Peculiar", Del Shannon's "Rock On!", Traveling
Wilbury's "Vol. 3", and released his own solo album (to name a few things.)
This came on the heels of Jeff Lynne's biggest year ever 1989 (count that,
just 11 years ago, which misses your ten years by one) which saw the release
of Full Moon Fever, Mystery Girl, and TW's Volume 1. Jeff was also
nominated for Producer of the Year (twice!!) Grammys!! And all of this
from America, where most of us have no clue who Jeff is. Not too bad!!
All this while ELO Part II rode on the coattails of Jeff's previous work.
Ask yourself this, would ELO Part II have been given a record contract if
they weren't using the ELO name and playing old ELO tunes?? Don't get me
wrong, I really like Part 2 a lot, and have all of their regular releases,
but I had to say something because I'm getting a little tired of the
Jeff-bashing (of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, which is
one of the main reasons why a newsgroup exists in the first place). I may
be a jerk, but if a new Jeff Lynne solo album comes out, I'll buy it the day
it comes out. If a Jeff-reunited/reformed ELO album comes out, I'll buy it
the day it comes out. If an ELO Part 2 album comes out, I'm not in as big
of a rush to get it, sometimes waiting for months before I actually get it.
If another ELO Part 2 LIVE album comes out, I'll wait until it hits the
discount rack, if I buy it at all. Just my .02!
Implied i
impliedi
he was in a cocoon when writing them. I think many misunderstand what
Armchair Theatre was for. It was a gift by Warner Bros., giving him a
chance to record his own album because of the great producing work he had
done for them. He says it was made for his own enjoyment and was made so
that he some of his friends could get a kick out of it. Personally I'll
take Lift Me Up, Nobody Home, Now You're Gone, What Would it Take, and Blown
Away over 99% of Part 2's original stuff.
Implied i
Peter writes:
> >then I suggest you pick up ELO Part II or Moment Of Truth..... much more
> >"inspired" than Balance Of Power or Secret Messages.
>
> In your humble opinion (IYHO) only, you do not speak for me and certain
other
impliedi
Jeff (assuming this is all true) would go with full orchestration for the
new ELO, which leads to the bigger question at hand: Since Jeff is friends
with Michael Kamen would he ask Mr. Kamen or bring Louis Clark over from
Part 2 to do them?????
Implied i
Kristofer Straub
until later tonight. (I know you're all on pins and needles awaiting my
opinion.)
--
Kristofer Straub -- kst...@nightlightpress.com
http://www.nightlightpress.com
Dundagel
>Since Roy and Jeff have healed
>old wounds I wouldn't be surprised to see Roy join in if Lynne, Bevan
>and Tandy got back together to make a new album.
What we would have is the last live lineup of The Move, from late 1971, when
they played a charity pub gig. The lineup was Bevan - drums (natch), Lynne -
guitar, Tandy - bass on two or three songs and then guitar for the rest of the
set, and Wood - guitar for the first few songs, and then bass for the rest of
the set.
I'll support Wood joining the new lineup as long as he sticks to the guitar and
is kept far away from any cellos!
Dundagel
Don Weaver
vocals, did you ever hear the song "Me And You", for instance? What a voice,
and what a sweet production.
-----------------------------------------
Don Weaver
The Laser
WLR-LPFM 103.7
The Capitol City's Alternative
http://www.thelaser.webprovider.com
Now automated with Otsjuke DJ!
PeterV1962
>>then I suggest you pick up ELO Part II or Moment Of Truth..... much more
>>"inspired" than Balance Of Power or Secret Messages.
>
>In your humble opinion (IYHO) only, you do not speak for me and certain other
>
>
its not my opinion that ELO's last couple of albums were not very inspired, its
pretty much a fact! Listen to the music! I think the song "Caught In A Trap"
sums it up. Jeff even says so in the afterglow booklet. On the other hand ELO
Part II were really inspired & excited and still are about recording. One can
state opinions about which ones are better... but inspiration? It's not even
close.
Robert Zimmerman
partial to Mustard & Boulders too).
Bob
Robert Zimmerman
> I agree that Mr. Wood may have a part. It will be interesting to see if
Does anyone have the inside poop on the supposed rift between Jeff and Roy? Does
it simply pertain to their desires to take the early incarnation of ELO in
different musical directions? Doesn't seem to me to be a good reason to fight.
Bob
Lynn Hoskins
> What we would have is the last live lineup of The Move, from late 1971, when
> they played a charity pub gig. The lineup was Bevan - drums (natch), Lynne -
> guitar, Tandy - bass on two or three songs and then guitar for the rest of the
> set, and Wood - guitar for the first few songs, and then bass for the rest of
> the set.
The Move's last performance as The Move was in mid 1972 - they did
"California Man" on a TV show (what the heck was the name of that
show...) It was Roy, Jeff, Bev, Bill Hunt and Trevor Smith. Richard
Tandy left the band just a couple months prior.
Two years later, The Move reuinted on the Flo and Eddie show - Roy,
Jeff, Bev and Rick Price.
> I'll support Wood joining the new lineup as long as he sticks to the guitar and
> is kept far away from any cellos!
Boy, I couldn't disagree more. If it weren't for Roy's interest in the
cello, there never would have been an Electric Light Orchestra. If he
ever wanted to pick up the cello again, I would be thrilled. His style
maybe have been a bit unpolished, but it defined ELO's sound. (I loved
his cello work on Boulders, too.)
Lynn
Lynn Hoskins
> Does anyone have the inside poop on the supposed rift between Jeff and Roy? Does
> it simply pertain to their desires to take the early incarnation of ELO in
> different musical directions? Doesn't seem to me to be a good reason to fight.
Bob, it was complicated. Had more to do with Don Arden than a
personality conflict between Jeff and Roy. You know, you put two hugely
talented musicians under one roof and there is going to be a clash of
egos. This happens in any/all bands. As Roy has explained in
interviews, he'd had it up to here with Arden the control freak.
Arden's plans for Electric Light Orchestra did not coincide with Roy's.
It got very political, and that was a big turn-off for Roy. (Roy
thought the world of Jeff and they are still close friends to this day.)
Arden couldn't control Roy, so he encouraged him to do Wizzard - said
he'd support a full U.S. tour. Basically lured Roy away from ELO so
that he could do what he wanted with that project. Some think Arden was
hoping to create *2* ELO's (Electric Light Orchestra and Wizzard) so he
could make twice the money. But, when he couldn't keep Roy on a tight
leash (he probably had a heart attack when he heard Wizzard Brew!) he
pulled the plug on Wizzard. That's why the Eddy tour got cut short.
And that's why "Main Street" didn't get released until this year. Arden
did some serious damage to Roy's spirit.
Lynn
ACS77
peter...@aol.comcarwash (PeterV1962) Peter writes:
>its not my opinion that ELO's last couple of albums were not very inspired,
>its
>pretty much a fact! Listen to the music!
You still do not speak for many other Electric Light Orchestra fans, including
me!
>I think the song "Caught In A Trap"
>sums it up.
That's why its not on Balance Of Power, it was an outtake from those sessions
that became a b-side.
>Jeff even says so in the afterglow booklet.
Artists are their own worst critics.
>On the other hand ELO
>Part II were really inspired & excited and still are about recording. One can
>state opinions about which ones are better... but inspiration? It's not even
>close.
IMHO these recordings, along with Armchair Theatre, show minimal inspiration
when compared to Secret Messages and Balance Of Power.
Rick Vendl II
Robert Zimmerman
and full time Roy Wood fan though (and I'm embarrassed to ask).
Who's Don Arden? Their manager?
Bob
P.S. Don't yell, please. :-)
Steven Acevedo
<BobD...@iname.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the insight! One dumb question from a part time ELO fan
>and full time Roy Wood fan though (and I'm embarrassed to ask).
>Who's Don Arden? Their manager?
Don Arden was ELO's manger from The Early 70;s into the 90's.
PeterV1962
inspiration because I didn't have any. I really had enough by "Time"; I was
getting to not like it by then. I thought I'd be in the mood by the next one
and at the time I thought I was. But now I listen to it and I wasn't. I was in
a cocoon, with a lack of direction and nobody to bounce off. I started to think
how nice it would be to work with other people. I did the last album and then I
was free of it" So I am not speaking for other fans nor is it my opinion that
there Jeff Lynne was uninspired, It's a fact! He isn't saying the music was
good or bad but he was not inspired at all making it. On the other hand I know
for a fact that ELO Part II was very upbeat and excited for making Moment Of
Truth. They recorded part of the album less than 3 miles from where I live and
I asked them about it after it was released. I didn't say they were better than
the last few ELO albums thats up to the individual.
ACS77
impl...@hotmail.com (Implied i) writes:
>I think many misunderstand what
>Armchair Theatre was for. It was a gift by Warner Bros., giving him a
>chance to record his own album because of the great producing work he had
>done for them. He says it was made for his own enjoyment and was made so
>that he some of his friends could get a kick out of it.
I kinda figured as much.
>Personally I'll
>take Lift Me Up, Nobody Home, Now You're Gone, What Would it Take, and Blown
>Away
With the exception of "Now You're Gone", although "Every Little Thing" takes
its place, these are exactly what my only favorites happen to be from that
album.
>over 99% of Part 2's original stuff.
>
"For The Love Of A Woman" is a 1% example for me, however, still equal when put
alongside those 5 aforementioned Jeff Lynne solo songs.
Rick Vendl II
ACS77
peter...@aol.comcarwash (PeterV1962) Peter writes:
>Jeff Lynne says in the Afterglow booklet about the last few albums "They lack
>inspiration because I didn't have any. I really had enough by "Time"; I was
>getting to not like it by then. I thought I'd be in the mood by the next one
>and at the time I thought I was. But now I listen to it and I wasn't. I was
>in
>a cocoon, with a lack of direction and nobody to bounce off. I started to
>think
>how nice it would be to work with other people. I did the last album and then
>I
>was free of it" So I am not speaking for other fans nor is it my opinion that
>there Jeff Lynne was uninspired, It's a fact! He isn't saying the music was
>good or bad but he was not inspired at all making it.
Never disputed this, all I said was artists are their own worst critics and
Jeff Lynne's comments here prove just that, at least to me anyway!
Rick Vendl II
ACS77
impl...@hotmail.com (Implied i) writes:
>he was in a cocoon when writing them.
Same here!
ACS77
peter...@aol.comcarwash (PeterV1962) Peter writes:
>Jeff Lynne says in the Afterglow booklet about the last few albums "They lack
>inspiration because I didn't have any. I really had enough by "Time"; I was
>getting to not like it by then. I thought I'd be in the mood by the next one
>and at the time I thought I was. But now I listen to it and I wasn't. I was
>in
>a cocoon, with a lack of direction and nobody to bounce off. I started to
>think
>how nice it would be to work with other people. I did the last album and then
>I
>was free of it" So I am not speaking for other fans nor is it my opinion that
>there Jeff Lynne was uninspired, It's a fact! He isn't saying the music was
>good or bad but he was not inspired at all making it.
Never disputed this statement was made, I said artists are their own worst
Lynn Hoskins
> Thanks for the insight! One dumb question from a part time ELO fan
> and full time Roy Wood fan though (and I'm embarrassed to ask).
> Who's Don Arden? Their manager?
I'm always happy to help out a full-time Roy Wood fan! (By the way,
have you subscribed to the new RoyZone magazine?)
I'm trying to remember when Arden and The Move first hooked up... I
know it was very soon after Jeff joined. Don Arden was manager of The
Idle Race and The Moody Blues at the time. Roy and Jeff wanted to move
forward with the Electric Light Orchestra project right away (in 1970)
but because E.L.O. was an unknown entity, EMI wanted to make a deal with
The Move, and they expected new Move material, too. So, "Looking On"
and "Message From The Country" (plus Do Ya, California Man, etc.) were
recorded as The Move while E.L.O. was taking shape. Arden was manager
of The Move, E.L.O., Wizzard and Roy solo. Listen to "Crazy Jeans" on
"Introducing Eddy and the Falcons" - there's a line in it that mentions
Don Arden, and that line will tell you how the band was feeling about
him at the time. ;) Finally, in 1977, Roy was allowed to leave Jet
Records. No love lost between Roy and Arden. Arden continued to manage
ELO, and did so, I believe, until the very end. David Arden went on to
manage ELO Part II.
By the way, if there was a personality conflict between Jeff and Roy,
they both got over it pretty quickly as Jeff was invited to the
promotional party for "Eddy" and he and Roy jammed together and had a
great time.
Probably much more than you wanted to know!
Lynn
Steven35
wasn't good enough to him and probably thought others wouldn't
like it either.
Maybe now that ten years have passed he can look at those tunes
in a different light and appreciated them for what they were.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Dundagel
performance or a lip-synch?
When the Move appeared on the radio show, it was an interview situation, except
for an a cappella version of Tonight.
You can have Roy's cello playing! I'll take the real thing: Pablo Casals,
Yo-Yo Ma, Ofra Harnoy, Hugh McDowall. Roy sawed wood (no pun intended).
Plenty of composers (Vivaldi, Boccherini, Lynne) were interested in the cello,
but they let the experts play it! Roy was and is a fantastic guitar player.
All of that multi-instrumentalist stuff was jive.
Dundagel
>Arden did some serious damage to Roy's spirit.
Agreed. Roy should never have been expected to run Wizzard and a maintain a
solo career at the same time.
Dundagel
>Artists are their own worst critics.
You got that right! :)
Jeff was continually berating his older work in 70s interviews ... and Roy
doesn't like Shazam (his finest hour, sez me).
ACS77
BobD...@iname.com writes:
>One dumb question from a part time ELO fan
>and full time Roy Wood fan though (and I'm embarrassed to ask).
>Who's Don Arden? Their manager?
>
>
>P.S. Don't yell, please. :-)
Yes, Don Arden was manager of ELO throughout their existance, at least upto
1983 when his Jet Record label went bust and then he managed ELO2 until '92,
here is a short biography by AMG-the All-Music Guide, you might have to copy &
paste this link...
http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=B359283~C
Hope that helps,
Rick Vendl II
Lynn Hoskins
> I meant a live, in concert gig. Was the TV performance in 1972 a live
> performance or a lip-synch?
It was a live performance. I have the title of it SOMEWHERE in this
mess...I'll try to find it.
> You can have Roy's cello playing! I'll take the real thing: Pablo Casals,
> Yo-Yo Ma, Ofra Harnoy, Hugh McDowall. Roy sawed wood (no pun intended).
> Plenty of composers (Vivaldi, Boccherini, Lynne) were interested in the cello,
> but they let the experts play it! Roy was and is a fantastic guitar player.
> All of that multi-instrumentalist stuff was jive.
"The real thing" is anyone's subjective opinion. Roy was (is!) an
artist and developed his own style of playing the instrument. Was he
classically trained (meaning, did he attend a music school and/or take
lessons from a professional)? No. He was self-taught. That doesn't
make his style any less "real" than anyone else's. Perhaps his playing
was not to your liking. But, it was exceptionally unique and gave
Electric Light Orchestra its own distinct personality.
(Vivaldi...Boccherini...JEFF Lynne? Oh yes, he definitely belongs in
the same category! LOL!)
Lynn
Lynn Hoskins
> Agreed. Roy should never have been expected to run Wizzard and a maintain a
> solo career at the same time.
There was quite a bit more to it than that, but I'll leave those
memories where they belong...in the distant past.
Lynn
Dundagel
contained an interview with Arden.
Lynn Hoskins
> Good comments about Don Arden ... also, the May 1999 issue of MOJO magazine
> contained an interview with Arden.
I have that article in electronic form (typed by Jeff Cooper). If
anyone would like to read it, drop me a line and I'll send it to you.
Lynn
ACS77
(Dundagel) writes:
>also, the May 1999 issue of MOJO magazine
>contained an interview with Arden.
AMG did mention this in their biography of Don Arden, only it's misspelled as
OJO...
Rick Vendl II
ACS77
lhos...@mediatones.com writes:
>Arden continued to manage
>ELO, and did so, I believe, until the very end.
Only upto 1983 just after Secret Messages was released because, among other
things, his Jet Record label went bust that year, ELO even thank Craig Fruin,
later manager to Jeff Lynne, in Balance Of Power's liner notes, their last
album and the one immediately following.
>David Arden went on to
>manage ELO Part II.
Don Arden also went onto manage ELO2.
Rick Vendl II
Dundagel
Bull. Not if you have substantial musical knowledge and listen with both ears!
:)
Dundagel
Arden also did an interview with Melody Maker in 1974. He states that he did
not try to control Roy's career ... but he sure did, huh? It all ended in
extreme litigation that Roy still cannot discuss.
Bea
I have a ELO Gold collection CD ( picked up in Germany for a price that
would embarrass an apple and an egg ). It features a 1971 recording of 10538
Overture, which is one of my favorite ELO tracks ever....but not in this
recording.
Someone tell me: is this the original recording?
Its 5:32 mins long and a poor innocent cello gets viciously and cruely
murdered in the process; who's responsible ? There is also some fine french
horn playing ( by who ?) and a quirky clarinet, some semi iffy trumpet
spills, later on the disk even a tune in 9/4 time ( in old England town)
but mainly that poor cello being tortured and revived and tortured and
revived again... although on the Battle of Marston Moor it is joined by an
equally disillusioned bassoon.
Apart from all that enthusiastic, chemically ( ? ) induced fragging there's
some very interesting tracks on this CD....early ELO with a classical vision
to be sure !
Of course all you ELO buffs have known tracks like Mr Radio or Roy's You got
me now (very Kurt Weill ) for 30 years , so excuse my curiousity !
And furthermore re a different post further up the NG, whats wrong with
Xanadu ? Lynne got hired to do a job , film score, big bucks, program music.
The music is great, Xanadu meant alot to me when I was 14 ( for goodness
sake don't tell anyone ) ; I'm Alive means a lot to me now !!!
Later,
Bea
"Dundagel" <dund...@aol.com.int> wrote in message
news:20000719174842...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
Steven Acevedo
>>David Arden went on to
>>manage ELO Part II.
>
>Don Arden also went onto manage ELO2.
Wasn't it mentioned in the book UNEXPECTED MESSAGES that he was fired
after a flippant comment about the first album of Part 2's debut cd?
Robert Zimmerman
Lynn Hoskins wrote:
> I'm always happy to help out a full-time Roy Wood fan! (By the way,
> have you subscribed to the new RoyZone magazine?)
>
No! I didn't know it existed. I've always been disappointed that Roy
didn't/doesn't have a strong enough following that would permit him
to tour. I think he's one of the great unsung geniuses of pop music.
All of the others wouldn't fill out the fingers on my left hand.
> Listen to "Crazy Jeans" on
> "Introducing Eddy and the Falcons" - there's a line in it that mentions
> Don Arden, and that line will tell you how the band was feeling about
> him at the time. ;)
I own four copies of "Introducing Eddy and the Falcons" on vinyl - two
British, one Canadian and one US. I always adored this album, but hated
the awful sounding pressings. It wasn't until the recent remastered version
came out that I truly could enjoy the music without thinking, "what shi**y
sound!".
> Finally, in 1977, Roy was allowed to leave Jet
> Records. No love lost between Roy and Arden. Arden continued to manage
> ELO, and did so, I believe, until the very end.
>
I have a number of Roy UK 45's, all of which are on Jet.
> By the way, if there was a personality conflict between Jeff and Roy,
> they both got over it pretty quickly as Jeff was invited to the
> promotional party for "Eddy" and he and Roy jammed together and had a
> great time.
>
"Eddy" music was certainly different than what ELO had produced to date.
I have always been a great fan of greasy 50's R&R and have a particular
fondness for some of the Brit attempts to accurately recreate that sound.
In my mind, only Roy and Dave Edmunds have succeeded.
Many years ago I read that Roy and Dave had performed in concert
together. I'd pay big bucks for a copy of that tape (if it was good)!
I have an audio recording of Roy & Wizzard performing on Don Kirschner's
rock concert. Have you heard it? Would you like a copy? The sound quality
leaves a lot to be desired though.
> Probably much more than you wanted to know!
>
Nope! That was great. I thought I was the only Roy fan in the civilized
world.
> Lynn
Bob
Dundagel
... everyone, please consider this in my comments below. (Also, I posted a
previous short response and quickly deleted it ... if you saw it, please
disregard it.)
Lynn sez:
<< "The real thing" is anyone's subjective opinion. >>
Nope. The more you educate yourself about musicians and musicianship ... and
develope your ears for true instrumental ability ... the more you'll be able to
distinguish real playing from amateurish attempts.
<< Roy was (is!) an artist and developed his own style of playing the
instrument.
What a cop out! :) C'mon, Lynn! Anyone can defend anything by calling it art
... but it doesn't make it good or worthwhile. Roy was and is a brilliant
guitar player who for some reason decided he was bored with guitar (his own
words) and took up a slew of other instruments, on which his ability ranged
from OK (sax) to bad (cello, drums). The finest artists, those who make a
strong lasting impression, and frequently have the greatest successes, are
those who recognize their strengths and weaknesses and know how to focus their
strengths. (This applies to any profession.) Roy had that ability in his role
as a guitarist and songwriter in The Move. He lost it as a bandleader and solo
artist. Jeff Lynne maintained his focus and look at where each man's career
went. Had Roy stuck to guitar, he could have had the worldwide reputation of
John Williams, John McLaughlin, Jeff Beck, and other greats. Roy has a genius
for guitar that few players have ... the ability to play beautifully on both
electric and acoustic guitar. Most players excel at one or the other but not
both. (Listen to Eric Clapton on Unplugged ... he does not know how to sustain
notes on the acoustic, as he does on the electric.)
If you like Roy's cello playing, fine. Enjoy it. But it's not good
musicianship. Listen to Roy's guitar work on Shazam, or his breathtaking
guitar solo on Another Wrong Night ... that is brilliant musicianship!!!
Listen to his classical guitar on First Movement. Excellent technique, with
feeling and a deft touch. I'll take that over scraping any day!
<< Was he classically trained (meaning, did he attend a music school and/or
take
lessons from a professional)? No. He was self-taught. That doesn't make his
style any less "real" than anyone else's. >>
I've never operated a bulldozer. But I can call myself a bulldozer driver and
attempt to run one. Hopefully I won't ruin anything or anybody. But I'm not a
"real" bulldozer driver.
Sawing wood is not cello playing.
<< Perhaps his playing was not to your liking. >>
Right...but not only because of taste ... also due to knowledge of instruments,
instrumental style, and brilliant musicians. It's called listening amd
learning!
It's that same knowledge that enables me, 30 years on, to still rate Roy's
guitar work so highly, even though I've listened to many other brilliant guitar
players since then!
I'm enjoying our debate ... your turn! :)
Lynn Hoskins
> >Don Arden also went onto manage ELO2.
>
> Wasn't it mentioned in the book UNEXPECTED MESSAGES that he was fired
> after a flippant comment about the first album of Part 2's debut cd?
Rick, I forgot that Don was also involved in Part II. I am going by
memory here... weren't things pretty disastrous initially? Wasn't Don
A. responsible for Neil Lockwood bailing? I vaguely recall that the
Ardens had one thing in mind for Part II, and the band had another, and
there was friction from the get-go. What a surprise. ;)
Lynn
SeanB51229
MOJO magazine, you wrote :
> I have that article in electronic form (typed by
> Jeff Cooper). If anyone would like to read it, drop
> me a line and I'll send it to you.
I would like to read it. You can send it to me at :
SeanB...@aol.com
Thanks !
Sean Bernard
SeanB...@aol.com
john kilcline
"Bea" <s_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8l5bmp$ed8
> And furthermore re a different post further up the NG, whats wrong with
> Xanadu ? Lynne got hired to do a job , film score, big bucks, program
music.
> The music is great, Xanadu meant alot to me when I was 14 ( for goodness
> sake don't tell anyone ) ; I'm Alive means a lot to me now !!!
>
Hey Bea,
Welcome out of the Xanadu closet!!
There is NOTHING wrong with Xanadu, GREAT tunes BRILLIANT film, i love it!!
I also think that the "I'm Alive/Xanadu" video sequence that the "band with
no name" do with the Polish Symphony Orchestra is AWESOME, what energy, &
yes to all the Americans who have been raving about Gordon's drumming, he IS
a powerhouse
GREAT!!!!
thanks
john
Jeff Cooper
Maybe not, but sawing wooden cellos sure sound cool to me! Its known as
'The Boulders Effect' ;)
Jeff
Dave
You are so right about Gordon. I just saw them last weekend and let me
tell you Gordon keeps getting better with every show! He keeps making
improvements to each song. I could easily get bored of hearing the same
JL songs over and over again but Gordon is the reason I haven't.
I think this last show was the best musical experience I have ever had.
This band better not quit. They are getting too good!
Dave
jim hoban
<kilc...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>I also think that the "I'm Alive/Xanadu" video sequence that the "band with
>no name" do with the Polish Symphony Orchestra is AWESOME, what energy, &
>yes to all the Americans who have been raving about Gordon's drumming, he IS
>a powerhouse
>GREAT!!!!
John, I totally agree - I managed to record the gig straight onto md
from the Eutelsat broadcast and this particular sequence (along with
Evil Woman) is stunning - Gordons drumming is amazing - can't wait to
see these guys perfroming live somewhere / anywhere in the U.K. this
year - ARE YOU LISTENING GREG !! :-) PLEEEAASSSEEEE!!!!
Jim
Jim Hoban,
Carlisle, Cumbria, U.K.
The ELO Network - http://clix.to/elo or http://members.xoom.com/elonetwork/
Secret Messages - http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/moodie/home.htm
Part II Unlimited Fanzine Online - http://www.part2unlimited.cjb.net
STONE COLD JEFF LYNNE
that sounded like "Rump Roast.....Rump Roast.....Rump Roast"
"I don't care, why should you? Just do what they tell you 'til something
better comes along."
"The Vegas bookies have it made, buying off cops, officials, coaches,
and players yet those bastards rake in millions of dollars a week and
they have the nerve to cry poverty."
Tim Emerich
i know i said id never post to this group ever again. yeah, my bad. but i
just cant believe what ive been reading here...
Dundagel wrote:
> Had Roy stuck to guitar, he could have had the worldwide reputation of
> John Williams, John McLaughlin, Jeff Beck, and other greats.
so i suppose that if George Harrison had stuck to the guitar and laid off
that blasted Sitar (which he did NOT play by the rules), he just might have
been up there in the ranks of Clapton, Beck, etc?
good music and musicianship is measured by what it does to a listener.
you guys are talking about Rock and Roll here. COME ON!
> Jeff Lynne maintained his focus and look at where each man's career
> went.
hmm...
Jeff Lynne- successful musician/songwriter/producer (and snappy dresser)
Roy Wood- a living Rock and Roll LEGEND!
did you ever stop to think that Roy might actually be content where he is
with his life?
i dont know if youre a musician or not, Dundagel. you did say you have a
knowledge of instruments. reguardless, im beginning to think that you rate a
'good' musician by dollar signs and chart ratings.
thats a very sketchy road.
whats funny about the Jeff/Roy argument, is im constantly seeing people bash
one or the other, as if there's some kind of eternal fued between the two.
when actually, those two have remained good friends through all these years.
and ABSOLUTELY no doubt in my mind that each of them carry the same respect
for the other musically. (cellos included)
i know im wasting my time with this post. i guess i figure i might as well
defend someone (Roy) who's done nothing wrong, yet he still gets bashed for
some odd reason.
you see, the frightening thing about you people, is that someone who couldnt
give a shit about a Berkley School of Music graduate VS. a rock and roll
musician could come in here to learn more about ELO and it's roots. they
read this crap and walk away thinking 'wow, that Roy guy must really suck!'.
TA DA! damage is done.
> Sawing wood is not cello playing.
and making a guitar scream through a Big Muff, a wah pedal and a 100 watt
Marshall stack certainly cant be guitar playing either (youre making the
rules. im just pointing them out). it's unethical by classically trained
standards. yet you seem to have no problem with THAT.
am i missing something, or are you?
Tim
PeterV1962
>one or the other, as if there's some kind of eternal fued between the two.
Unfortunatly, thats always the case in music newsgroups that I subscribe to.
The Beatles have the John Vs Paul, The Moody Blues have the were they better
before Mike Pinder left or Patrick Moraz. This newsgroup has the Jeff/Roy and
the ELO/ELO2 thing. While I know very little about Roy Wood. I know it is
possible tp like both. I like both ELO and ELO Part II and sometimes people
mistake my defense of the latter as favoritisim its not really. I just decided
to quit the debate so as I can continue to enjoy both. Things get blown out of
perportion and too damn personal! I am not one to pick out a favorite
guitarist, drummer or singer etc. If I like it its good to me! Just because
someone likes one or the other doesn't mean the other one has to be bashed.
Peter
to email please remove the "carwash" from the email address
SeanB51229
> I like both ELO and ELO Part II and sometimes
> people mistake my defense of the latter as
> favoritisim . . . I just decided to quit the debate so
> as I can continue to enjoy both.
Well said ! I have become reluctant to post opinions
on many things because of this. I also find it amazing
that some people can be so thoughtful and articulate
on one topic, and then on a different topic offer totally
mindless arguments and seem to miss the point
entirely (I am honestly not referring to anyone in
particular, I promise !).
Sean Bernard
SeanB...@aol.com
PeterV1962
>on many things because of this. I also find it amazing
>that some people can be so thoughtful and articulate
>on one topic, and then on a different topic offer totally
>mindless arguments and seem to miss the point
>entirely
I guess it's just peoples nature to somewhat feel threatened when people say
stuff about someone they like. Thats why I backed off the ELO/ELO2 debate. I'd
rather just try to enjoy the music of both rather than "take sides"
Tim Emerich
> My comments about Roy's cello playing were meant as constructive criticism.
> Did you not notice that I repeatedly praised Roy's guitar playing to the
> skies?
of course i noticed.
in fact, i thought you might catch what i said about a rock and roll
musician (hint hint- Roy), playing the guitar *unlike* a classically trained
musician. do you see where im going here? i just dont understand how you
could say what Roy did with the cello wasnt 'cello playing', when in fact,
by your qualifications, he really isnt guitar playing either. :)
> You're right, we are talking about rock and roll. I was engaging in a fun
> debate, which arose out of one simple comment I made. So why are YOU getting
> so upset?
let me quote something you wrote to this group...
"You can have Roy's cello playing! I'll take the real thing: Pablo Casals,
Yo-Yo Ma, Ofra Harnoy, Hugh McDowall. Roy sawed wood (no pun intended).
Plenty of composers (Vivaldi, Boccherini, Lynne) were interested in the
cello, but they let the experts play it! Roy was and is a fantastic guitar
player. All of that multi-instrumentalist stuff was jive."
im really sorry i offended you, but comments like that are just bound to get
negative responses. i can respect the fact that you were in a personal
friendly debate with Lynn, but when you post to a public group like this
one, it kinda seems like fair game. isnt that the point of newsgroups?
imagine if someone came along here and started saying similar things about
Jeff Lynne's singing or guitar playing. YIKES!
i think the thing that really steamed my clams the most wasnt only your
critism about Roy's cello playing, but the fact that you could say those
things then go on to praise his guitar work, which isnt classically trained.
just something i wanted you to think about :)
> I enjoy reading constructive comments about favorite musicians, authors, and
> so on, that differ from my opinions. I learn something, and I gain
> perspective.
> Also, I have always enjoyed healthy debates about music and musicians. Give
> it a try sometime! :)
again, i apologize. i hope you can see where i was coming from. i wouldnt
sit here and try to defend Roy's musicianship if i didnt think there was
good reason to.
i love a good healthy debate too. and when the two people can learn
something from each other's points, thats all the better!
sincerly,
Tim Emerich
Dundagel
remarks that I made in a discussion with Lynn that I clearly labelled as
friendly. Trying to read anything into my comments is futile. I meant what I
said and no more. It's all there in plain English.
My comments about Roy's cello playing were meant as constructive criticism.
Did you not notice that I repeatedly praised Roy's guitar playing to the skies?
To me, nobody is infallible. I call it as I hear it.
You're right, we are talking about rock and roll. I was engaging in a fun
debate, which arose out of one simple comment I made. So why are YOU getting
so upset?
I enjoy reading constructive comments about favorite musicians, authors, and so
Dundagel
ELO
have the same good tastes!
-John
PeterV1962 <peter...@aol.comcarwash> wrote in message
news:20000724015442...@ng-fh1.aol.com...
> >whats funny about the Jeff/Roy argument, is im constantly seeing people
bash
> >one or the other, as if there's some kind of eternal fued between the
two.
>
> Unfortunatly, thats always the case in music newsgroups that I subscribe
to.
> The Beatles have the John Vs Paul, The Moody Blues have the were they
better
> before Mike Pinder left or Patrick Moraz. This newsgroup has the Jeff/Roy
and
> the ELO/ELO2 thing. While I know very little about Roy Wood. I know it is
people
> mistake my defense of the latter as favoritisim its not really. I just
decided
> to quit the debate so as I can continue to enjoy both. Things get blown
out of
> perportion and too damn personal! I am not one to pick out a favorite
> guitarist, drummer or singer etc. If I like it its good to me! Just
because
> someone likes one or the other doesn't mean the other one has to be
bashed.
>
>
Robert Zimmerman
I think that people forget that this is R&R and not classical music. We'd all
like to believe that our favourite musicians are world-class and comparable to
the likes of Segovia, Yo-Yo Ma and Jobim, but that's laughable. One can count on
the fingers of one hand the number of rock musicians who can be mentioned in the
same breath as those folks.
Tim Emerich wrote:
> Dundagel wrote:
>
> > Had Roy stuck to guitar, he could have had the worldwide reputation of
> > John Williams, John McLaughlin, Jeff Beck, and other greats.
>
> so i suppose that if George Harrison had stuck to the guitar and laid off
> that blasted Sitar (which he did NOT play by the rules), he just might have
> been up there in the ranks of Clapton, Beck, etc?
Of course not, George played in a great recording band, but a band of just
average musicianship.
> good music and musicianship is measured by what it does to a listener.
Well, I agree with the "good music" part, that it is purely subjective, but the
the good musicianship part is NOT subjective despite what the millions of rock
"experts" would like to believe.
> you guys are talking about Rock and Roll here. COME ON!
Exactly. R&R is a very basic, yet enjoyable (for some) form of music. People
tend to confuse quality with what they like. If they like ELO (or any other
band), then ELO (or that other band) is great, with great musicians, writes
great music and belongs in the R&R Hall of Fame. What nonsense! They appeal to
you, or to me, but let's not confuse "what we like" with "what is good".
> hmm...
> Jeff Lynne- successful musician/songwriter/producer (and snappy dresser)
> Roy Wood- a living Rock and Roll LEGEND!
>
> did you ever stop to think that Roy might actually be content where he is
> with his life?
I love when fans try to tell their faves what their audience expects of them, or
what their responsibilities are to their fans. Sheer rubbish, mates! The only
responsibility musicians have is to themselves.
> you see, the frightening thing about you people, is that someone who couldnt
> give a shit about a Berkley School of Music graduate VS. a rock and roll
> musician could come in here to learn more about ELO and it's roots. they
> read this crap and walk away thinking 'wow, that Roy guy must really suck!'.
> TA DA! damage is done.
Don't worry Tim, an intelligent reader sees this stuff as the nonsense it is.
> > Sawing wood is not cello playing.
>
> and making a guitar scream through a Big Muff, a wah pedal and a 100 watt
> Marshall stack certainly cant be guitar playing either (youre making the
> rules. im just pointing them out). it's unethical by classically trained
> standards. yet you seem to have no problem with THAT.
> am i missing something, or are you?
>
Well, I wouldn't say it's unethical, just that ultimately the only thing that
counts is the sound coming out.
The Big Muff, a wah pedal and a 100 watt Marshall stack are very often used to
cover up a musician's shortcomings.
I don't know about you, but I have yet to hear of a completely self-taught
musician who ranks on the scale of world-class musicians; and that's world-class
musicians, not world-class rock musicians.
Bob
impliedi
> Armchair Theatre, and most ELO only fans like Armchair Theatre. For
> myself ELO2 sounds like ELO, but more modern, and with a different
> lead singer, and Armchair Theatre doesn't sound anything at all like
> ELO. I guess for some people Jeff Lynne's sound was ELO and for those
> people Armchair Theatre sounds like ELO and ELO 2 does not. For myself
> the other band member were a very important part of ELO's sound. I
> guess that's why Armchair Theatre to me almost sounds like Jeff Lynne
> is singing for another group altogether.
Huh?
If I'm following you correctly, I must disagree with you on a number of
items:
- I'm not sure where you get that "most ELO2 and ELO fans don't like
Armchair Theatre", I'm guessing it was some kind of poll that I missed.
- Personally I think that ELO2 sounds NOTHING like ELO. Sure it's a band
with strings, but that's where the comparison stops. I've always
considered them a totally separate entity. ELO2 has a few very talented
musicians in the band and they are a pretty good live band. They are all,
however, very mediocre songwriters at best.
- While I'm a huge Jeff fan and a huge ELO fan and somewhat of an ELO2 fan,
I don't think the Armchair Theatre album sounds anything like ELO. I love
the album nonetheless, but there has been no Jeff Lynne composition or
production since the breakup of ELO that has sounded like ELO. Even Jeff's
Video! & Let it Run which were released when ELO still existed sound nothing
at all like ELO.
- It's interesting that you feel that the other band members were very
important to ELO's sound. You must have incredible ears!!! Are you able to
tell Bev's drum sound from that of other drummers? Does Mik's violin sound
different than other violins? Can you distinguish Kelly's bass sound from
that of other bassists? The ELO sound was distinguishable from other bands
by Jeff's voice, and Jeff and Kelly's harmonizing.
- Of course, Armchair Theatre sounds like Jeff is singing for another
group..it is another group!!!
Implied i
Kristofer Straub
> group..it is another group!!!
>
> Implied i
I agree completely with all of what you just said! My opinion differs
not in the slightest!
--
Kristofer Straub -- kst...@nightlightpress.com
http://www.nightlightpress.com
ILibov
hyperjet
>tell Bev's drum sound from that of other drummers? Does Mik's violin sound
>different than other violins?
Actually, Bev has a very distinct drum style. I can't say whether or not
Mik's violin sounds different than other violins, but the way he plays it
definitely does. They are both, to me, instantly recognisable. As far as
Kelly's bass playing, I admit I haven't really noticed a particular style
although his vocals are an irreplacable part of the "ELO sound". As is L.
Clark's string arrangements.
Tr
Kristofer Straub
something off everyone. Bev's at the very least a fully competent
drummer. His drum work on On The Third Day, I think, was the most
original of his stuff with ELO. That was good drumming to me. Dreaming
of 4000 and New World Rising come to mind.
But later, he sort of turned into a timekeeper -- not to say his
drumming was just thump-thump-thump, but... he didn't seem to do any
fills or anything fancy with it. He said once near the breakup of
Lynne's ELO had recording had become "mechanical." Originally I thought
Jeff was just a control freak and must've told Bev to not do anything
fancy, just do standard stuff so as not to upstage him.
But then when you listen to Part 2 -- Bev's whole thing -- I'd have
expected him to make the drums a lot more prominent. And sure enough,
they are much louder, but there's still no fancy stuff! I've noticed the
same thing about his work on that Black Sabbath album, the name of which
escapes me. No fancy fills or anything.
I admit I know little about recording, and least of all the drums, but
does anyone else think about stuff like this? Rebuttals? Someone must
want to take issue with this. And no, I don't think Bev is a terrible
drummer.
hyperjet
think he went overboard as time went on. Look at all the songs he's produced
and writen outside of ELO. Just basic metrenome type beats. He eventually
started to replace him with a drum machine.
You have a point, though, it all comes down to Bev in the end. He
could've been a bit less restrained with pt2, although his playing is heavy,
so I'll give him that.
By the way, have you heard Bev's replacement and how does he compare?
Haven't had the chance to see them in a while.
Tr
Kristofer Straub
> started to replace him with a drum machine.
Hello, Balance of Power.
> You have a point, though, it all comes down to Bev in the end. He
> could've been a bit less restrained with pt2, although his playing is heavy,
> so I'll give him that.
And I mean, *I* like that standard beat; I'm not a big fan of
fast-as-hell, complex drumming (which has its place) but I just figured
the times Bev had more control -- Part 2 and BS -- he'd have tried
something new, a challenge.
The drumming on Armchair Theatre was really good, though... it was
organic, almost alive. Didn't sound like Jeff's usual stuff, but it was
a nice change.
Kristofer Straub
> And it wasn't even Bev doing it. It was a girl drummer named Mette
> Matteson (?) from a group called Miss B. Haven.
I know it wasn't Bev, didn't sound like his work at all... dug up
Armchair Theatre, let's see... Mette Mathiesen. No sign of Jim Keltner.
And Jeff played drums on September Song. Cool.
ACS77
kst...@nightlightpress.com writes:
>The drumming on Armchair Theatre was really good, though... it was
>organic, almost alive. Didn't sound like Jeff's usual stuff, but it was
>a nice change.
This is legendary session drummer Jim Keltner, who also drummed for The
Traveling Wilburys among many others...
Rick Vendl II
PeterV1962
time working on the ELO albums. I think thats why Bev doesn't seem to be
playing on many tracks on BOP. Could even be that Jeff played the drums on some
of the songs. Ringo Starr had the same problem with The Beatles, the more
advanced the music there was no real need for the drummer to be hanging around.
I'd say that Bev wanted the ELO2 albums to sound the way they did. He played
the songs of ELO in much the same fashion of the originals in concert. Many
musicians "mellow out" and get conservative as they get older. I always have
thought the best drummers were the ones you don't notice, That is until I heard
the new ELO2 drummer, his drumming made me take notice, it brings a new sound
to the group. A much different sound than Bev (in concert anyway) Even Jeff's
music over the years was less cutting edge and more "mainstream" than it was
with the first few ELO albums.
john.kilcline
"Steven Acevedo" <ste...@jeff-lynne.net> wrote in message
news:9ptnos848r530bnev...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:59:07 -0700, Kristofer Straub
> <kst...@nightlightpress.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> And it wasn't even Bev doing it. It was a girl drummer named Mette
> >> Matteson (?) from a group called Miss B. Haven.
> >
> >I know it wasn't Bev, didn't sound like his work at all... dug up
> >Armchair Theatre, let's see... Mette Mathiesen. No sign of Jim Keltner.
> >And Jeff played drums on September Song. Cool.
>
>
There a LOT of things that YOU don't know!!
;-) john
Geffer
Ever listen to the Move's "Feel Too Good" from the Looking On album? Jeff
drummed all over that tune.
Geffer