You Never Know time signature?
Shaun C McDonnell
Stephanie Long
steph
I swear by now I'm playing time against my troubles --DJM
Shaun C McDonnell
Shaun
"Stephanie Long" <bear...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020408133741...@mb-cb.aol.com...
Stephanie Long
though
Matt Dwyer
~matt
KSDynomite
it begins in 6/8 and is in this time signature during the chorus
the verses are in a more complex meter. it consists (at its simplest level)
of 3 measures of 5/8 followed by a measure of 6/8. Often composers may write
this time signature as 10/8 - 11/8 or 21/8.
Hope this helps . . .
T
ImAReallyBigNerd
it could be. but try counting it like this: it sounds like a standard 4/4, but
the riff starts on the 2nd beat after the first time is played. the first beat
could act as a pick-up note (the F#). or the last measure could be a 5/4 and
the first be a 3/4.
ok.... now that i listen to it more, it's sounds like 6/8, but with some funky
ass accents.
ryan
Russ Steele
See KS, Oscar and I have discussed this and we think that the 10/8
measures are an aurical illusion. I don't think that they're really in
5/8, Carter just tricks you into thinking that way.
If you count 6/8 the whole way through the song and ignore the drummer, it
works. Carter just screws with you by hitting on backwards beats and
somehow managing to keep everything together. He's a freaking genius. And
Dave is so bad a** on this tune. I mean, seriously, do you hear Dave at
the beginning? Sweet Jesus, he's playing well. And it's a miracle that the
song stays that tight considering that Carter is throwing everything
possible into the tune that could even possibly throw them off.
This song may just be the most brilliant pop rock composition of the last
10 years. It kicks the butt of anything the Dave has written before (even
Dreaming tree) and destroys mostly everything by everybody, all the way
back to Radiohead. Carter is just re-freaking-diculous on this song. It's
like he gets his own time signature. And they've only been playing it for
what, like 3 months? Can you imagine some guests sittin in on this bad boy
for the jam at the end? Vic and Bela would eat this stuff up. I can't even
concentrate today because of this song.
oscargrouch
right, but i think it's more appropriately 12/8...that way there are 4 beats
in each measure...
and no, the sig never changes...the place where you think there's a change
is where the big bass drum/cymbal crash comes on the UPBEAT (straight
eighths upbeat - no triplets here) of ONE...if you hear that, with the main
downbeat of the phrasing coming on TWO (with the snare), you can always
count 4 throughout the song...as in the chorus, the big snares are on 2 and
4...
what's fucking with your head is that you hear that bass drum/cymbal crash
and your brain goes ONE!...NO...stupid brain! not one!...bad brain!
as russ points out, carter is fucking with you so it's hard to follow...as
i'm sure it was hard for them when they started playing it...that's why
carter has to count out the 'duk duguduk duk duguduk' for so long before
they start...
(now the more i listen, though, i'm thinking it's entirely possible, that
this mindfuck can be traced back to dave...listen to dave in the
beginning...when there are no drums, he's still got that big note on the
upbeat of one (as i described above)...i think that's where carter got the
idea...)
and holy shit, russ-san...i didn't even think of bela...OMG...how many notes
does he DARE play in a beat on this song? we'll see what he's REALLY made
of now...he better have his sweatband on, that's all i know...
"Russ Steele" <ste...@stat.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.33.020408...@lisbon1.stat.washington.edu..
.
oscargrouch
fives...i barely noticed it cause you can still count fours all the way
through...the part ks is talking about is 3 5s and 6 (we're talking the
fastest beats here...counting all twelve of the 12/8)...so there's 3 5s and
a 6 repeated 4 times...that's 21 x 4, which equals 84...this is why you can
count the 4s all the way through (and not even notice the fives except to
notice them with a big downbeat every 5 for 3 times)...84/3 = 28, which is 7
measures of the slow 4s of the 12/8 i was counting in the other part...
now that seems a long way to go to meet back up with the count, but
actually, it meets back up on the 6 count measure each time...so if you
count by threes with someone else counting by fives, you'll meet up at the 6
each time...so that's 7 beats of 3 for each set of '3 5s & 6'...
now we know that dave's jimmyleg will be counting every one of the 12 or 5
or 6 beats...i'm curious to see stefan's bounce to see what he's feeling
during this part
by the way, i have a spreadsheet of this if anyone's interested...
"oscargrouch" <leeLOSEj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10183107...@globe.atl2.mindspring.net...
ImAReallyBigNerd
hear the studio version. music nerds kick ass. thanks
ryan
~ Lori ~
Ka-Reist! I need a PH-friggin D to listen to music now......
Anyone seen my protractor? :)
Lor
KSDynomite
> See KS, Oscar and I have discussed this and we think that the 10/8
> measures are an aurical illusion. I don't think that they're really in
> 5/8, Carter just tricks you into thinking that way.
Oscar:
> what's fucking with your head is that you hear that bass drum/cymbal crash
> and your brain goes ONE!...NO...stupid brain! not one!...bad brain!
No Russ, you and oscar tried to analyze my thought process, but you have me
mistaken. I was not fooled by the cymbol crash on the upbeat (in 2). True, I
did not approach the beginning of the song as being phrased in 4s, I thought
of it strictly as a 6/8 because of the evident subdivisions from the drums.
I dunno if I totally agree that they would list the time sig as 12/8,
because even though there is a grouping of 4 beats, that's somewhat inherent
in pieces written in 6/8 as well, the same way that groupings of 2 beats is
somewhat inherent in 3/8 time, even though the measures only hold half that
number of beats (2 and 1, respectively).
The part that I was approaching as 10/8 -11/8 is the part that begins where
Dave plays D C# B (in eighth notes) and Carter hits the cymbol on each note
(I wish I could tell you the lyrics here, but as hard as I'm listening, I
cannot discern them). The same time sig does not continue here. Listen to it
as much as you need to. Listen to the part before it and get the groove
sufficiently established in your head and try to continue that groove and
hold on to your 4-phrasings. It will not work. It becomes evident that there
are 21 beats there -- not divisible by 4. Cannot keep the same groove -- it
changes here. The measures are 5/8 5/8 5/8 6/8 --- by having the 6/8 as the
last measure, it smoothly goes right back into the straight-up 6/8 groove
that was previously established, which may be where u're tricked into
thinking that the same groove was there the whole time. The transition is
very smooth because of the last measure of the phrase being in 6/8.
I urge you to listen more to the song, specifically where I'm noting. On the
mp3 from the 4/7/02 show, the part I speak of begins at 1:02 the first time
it's played. Just count the beats aloud. You'll see where the time sig
changes. I am very confident in my time analysis of the song. Once you
understand it, u see that there is not as much Carter trickiness as you
orignally thought.
T
oscargrouch
4s...so it's not necessarily 12/8...no biggie there...basically the
same...and it's way into it when the first 6 shows up...::shrugs::...
the more interesting aspect, though, is the part you brought up, which isn't
what i was talking about initially...
more below...
"KSDynomite" <twe...@tulane.edu> wrote in message
> The part that I was approaching as 10/8 -11/8 is the part that begins
where
> Dave plays D C# B (in eighth notes) and Carter hits the cymbol on each
note
> (I wish I could tell you the lyrics here, but as hard as I'm listening, I
> cannot discern them). The same time sig does not continue here. Listen to
it
> as much as you need to. Listen to the part before it and get the groove
> sufficiently established in your head and try to continue that groove and
> hold on to your 4-phrasings. It will not work. It becomes evident that
there
> are 21 beats there -- not divisible by 4.
that's not the four i'm counting...the 4 you describe of mine would be 12 of
yours(4x3)...i understand the 5+5+5+6....that's where i'm saying you COULD
count through that...because (the first time at least) it repeats 4 times,
right? so 21x4=84...84/3=28...so 28 of my slow beats (each being 3 of
yours) could be counted...
> changes here. The measures are 5/8 5/8 5/8 6/8 --- by having the 6/8 as
the
> last measure, it smoothly goes right back into the straight-up 6/8 groove
> that was previously established, which may be where u're tricked into
> thinking that the same groove was there the whole time. The transition is
> very smooth because of the last measure of the phrase being in 6/8.
right, but before the 6/8 there are 3 5s, which is 15, which is the same as
5 3s...hehe...which are the 3s we're saying you can count the whole time....
believe me...i've been listening to this all day...and my brain is
fried...sure, you can just count 5+5+5+6, but that's what's so SICK about
it...that you don't have to...listen to it and think about it like
this...it's way cool...
oscargrouch
the reason there's a measure of 6/8 after the 3 5/8s is that there HAS to be
so that the set will be divisible by 3, thereby proving that it never loses
the 3/8 groove...so i guess i'm saying that the the measure of 6/8 after the
3 measures of 5/8 proves that there never WERE measures of 5/8...only 5
measures of 3/8 with a 3 x 5/8 feel...i love this song...
"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjack...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a90g00$v92i3$1...@ID-48059.news.dfncis.de...