Albert System
Stephen L. Moffett
Hello everyone.
Okay, so I can't stand not knowing any longer. I've never
seen an Albert System clarinet, but I keep hearing about
'em. Here's my short list of questions about Albert System
clarinets:
- Can someone please describe the Albert System for me?
- Do they have all the same tone holes, but just a different
key system?
- Do they suffer any tonal or tuning disadvantages due to
this system?
- Who made/makes Albert System clarinets?
- Are they more common in certain types of music?
- Is there perhaps a web page that can answer all these
questions for me and save everyone a lot of typing?
TIA,
Steve Moffett
John
Is there an argument that the Albert system is easier to play? Is the tone
quality just as good?
Jason Haggenjos wrote:
> >I don't know about tuning disadvantages, but the Albert players I've
> >heard are not playing classical music, and don't use a classical setup.
>
> Alfred Prinz who began playing with the (Austrian? help me out Ward, I can't
> remember, maybe Viennese.) symphony at age fifteen plays an albert system
> horn.
John Dean
Here's a short answer:
>- Can someone please describe the Albert System for me?
It's got a little simpler key system, completely different fingerings.
Rollers on the little-finger keys like a saxophone.
>- Do they suffer any tonal or tuning disadvantages due to
>this system?
I don't know about tuning disadvantages, but the Albert players I've
heard are not playing classical music, and don't use a classical setup.
I don't think of these players' sound as a disadvantage. I can't say
what it would be like if a classical player used an Albert horn with his
reed and mouthpiece, etc.
>- Who made/makes Albert System clarinets?
There was some discussion here recently about that, in a thread about
metal clarinets (even though like most clarinets, Albert horns are
almost always wooden).
The short answer is that most companies used to, but now they are
concentrated in Eastern Europe and Turkey. G clarinets are still made
mainly in the Albert system, I'm told (and often in metal); this is a
common instrument for Greek and Turkish folk music.
I've never heard of a plastic Albert clarinet. Has anyone ever seen
such a thing?
>- Are they more common in certain types of music?
Folk and pop musicians all over Eastern Europe and the Balkans have used
them. Some Greek and Turkish players still do, though some don't. It
is not the choice of Ivo Paposov, for instance. (He's an amazing pop
clarinetist from Bulgaria.)
Apparently they are common in Germany and central Europe for band music,
though I don't know much about that. They were the main clarinet for
pop and jazz players in the US back before the music got more
sophisticated in the swing era. Trained musicians like Shaw and Goodman
did not use Albert system instruments.
Another group of players that used them in the US were the Yiddish
clarinetists, though nowadays most Klezmer musicians use a Boehm
instrument. Listen to Andy Statman, or his mentor Dave Tarras, if you
want to hear some very soulful Albert-system clarinet playing.
John Dean
Charlottesville VA USA
KA
Check out the Rubank Elementary Method fingering chart. It has a drawing
of an Albert clarinet. The key system, among other things, does not permit
the right to left Eb to C on the right hand or the left to right C# to B.
It uses sax-like rollers instead. There are other differences, as well. I
just bought an Eb Albert system, so I'm finding out.
KA
Stephen L. Moffett <smo...@juno.com> wrote in article
<34E222F3...@juno.com>...
> Hello everyone.
>
> Okay, so I can't stand not knowing any longer. I've never
> seen an Albert System clarinet, but I keep hearing about
> 'em. Here's my short list of questions about Albert System
> clarinets:
>
> - Can someone please describe the Albert System for me?
> - Do they have all the same tone holes, but just a different
> key system?
> - Do they suffer any tonal or tuning disadvantages due to
> this system?
> - Who made/makes Albert System clarinets?
> - Are they more common in certain types of music?
Jason Haggenjos
>I don't know about tuning disadvantages, but the Albert players I've
>heard are not playing classical music, and don't use a classical setup.
PDC Sensha
The "Albert" system is really the final development of the traditional "simple"
clarinet as used in France and England. Before Klose applied the Boehm system
of rings and axles to the clarinet, the horn was pretty much a series of
unconnected keys and holes. The Albert firm (if I recall correctly, this is
where the name came from) went so far as to adopt portions of the Boehm system
(for the right hand holes), but otherwise retained the original clarinet
layout.
The German clarinet (Oehler "system") is another offshoot of the "simple"
clarinet, although one now so laden with crossfingering, auxilliary keys,
adjustment screws and such like that it resembles a fat oboe. There are some
bore differences and mouthpiece and reed differences as well, but the biggest
change is the fingering system. Good luck on finding one of these in the
United States to experiment with...
I started on an old Buffet "Albert" bass clarinet, and I have always been very
happy with the way that it played, even though I long ago made the switch to
Boehm horns. The difference in fingering (other than the lack of alternate
little finger keys) is primarily involving the thumb and first finger left
hand, and is not all that difficult to deal with, particularly if you have also
mastered the saxophone and flute.
I found the Albert horn more facile in sharp keys, the Boehm moreso in flat
keys. If you were at any of the concerts of the Springfield (MO) Symphony in
1967/68, you would have heard little or no difference between the Boehm and the
Albert versions of the horn (the school I was imprisoned at (Drury College) had
another old Buffet bass that I fixed up and used (and should have taken with
me)).
As for the Albert system not being used by "professionals", there once was this
guy named Lazarus that some of you may have heard of; not only did he use
"Albert" system horns, they were also made of ebonite. The current prevalence
of the Boehm horn is due to the current prevalence of the Boehm horn among
non-German teachers of the clarinet; students play what (and the brand of what)
their teachers play.
As recently as the late 1960's, I recall visiting music companies (Hunleth
Music, in downtown Saint Louis, was my favorite) where one could pick and chose
parts from stacks of old "Albert" system horns (and I mean stacks as in a pile
of sticks) to put together a mismatched horn from Buffet or Selmer to fool
around on for thirty bux or so.
Hunleth is long gone (sob), but if you're the right person (say Woody Allen,
who plays Albert for jazz) with enough money, you can get the manufacturer to
produce one for you (as he did a couple of years back when his prized horn went
splitsville in a big way).
Terry Stibal
pdcs...@aol.com
Steven Finney
>- Are they more common in certain types of music?
Folk and pop musicians all over Eastern Europe and the Balkans have used
them. Some Greek and Turkish players still do, though some don't. It
is not the choice of Ivo Paposov, for instance. (He's an amazing pop
I wouldn't call Ivo "pop"; it is folk-derived music, though Ivo was a
(the?) major figure in the current genre of Bulgarian "wedding band"
music. My understanding is that Turkish music is almost always played
on G Albert system (G partly because it matches the oud, and G is also
apparently the "tonal center" of the Turkish system, as contrasted to C
in the West.). In my experience most clarinet players in
Bulgaria and Yugoslav Macedonia play Bb Boehm system, and they can get
all the microtones and slides they need! Note that such players often
play on open mouthpieces with soft reeds; an Armenian player I know in
NYC shaves _down_ #1 reeds!
sf
Stephen L. Moffett
Wow,
This has been a great discussion about the Albert System. I'm
even more curious now than I was before I knew nothing about
it. I'll definitely check out the Rubank book that shows the
fingerings. And there's a repair shop here with a big box of
clarinet parts. Maybe I could get one working and give it a
try!
Thanks everyone.
Steve Moffett
Maestro
I studied with a man who studied in Vienna, and the Albert scale, or German
scale clarinets are mostly played in Europe. They are in some ways superior
to our Boehm clarinets, but they aren't widely accepted here in the USA. I
have played one, and I was astonished at the brilliant tone quality. Just
listen to a recording of the Vienna Symphony or the Berlin Symphony with
Carl Leister... you'll agree.
Stephen L. Moffett wrote in message <34E222F3...@juno.com>...
>Hello everyone.
>
>Okay, so I can't stand not knowing any longer. I've never
>seen an Albert System clarinet, but I keep hearing about
>'em. Here's my short list of questions about Albert System
>clarinets:
>
>- Can someone please describe the Albert System for me?
>- Do they have all the same tone holes, but just a different
>key system?
>- Do they suffer any tonal or tuning disadvantages due to
>this system?
>- Who made/makes Albert System clarinets?
>- Are they more common in certain types of music?
JazzTour
They were also very popular in New Orleans. All of the early jazz clarinet
players from Johnny Dodds to Omer Simeon to Jimmie Noone played alberts. They
can be difficult to play, but the tone on them is just unbeatable. I tried to
switch but was unable to make the conversion. Maybe someday.