clarinets with the extra E flat key on left side
Lisa
how many out there play clarinets that have the extra e flat key on
the left side? has anyone found that awkward? just curious....
lisa
John E Dove
between the C and D holes for the left hand? I studied with an
Italian clarinetist (probably born ca. 1890) and was taught to
use that key in preference to the RH E-flat key. It made sense,
since the RH key required coordination of two hands, the LH
E-flat key kept everything in one hand. It was just a
matter of bending the ring finger towards that LH key.
Piece o'cake. --JED.
Dee D. Hays
of the clarinet so that instead of only three keys in the left hand cluster
on the lower joint, there are four keys in that cluster. Or to put it
another way, the Ab that is the second ledger line below the staff and the
Eb that is the top space in the staff.
Dee Hays
Michigan.
"John E Dove" <7116...@CompuServe.COM> wrote in message
news:9jtpap$8ns$1...@suaar1aa.prod.compuserve.com...
Lisa
that is added extra on some instruments... I believe Festival
clarinets have this added feature. On R-13 clarinets the Eflat/A flat
key is only used in the right-hand. As anyone found this added key,
sometimes added on the left-hand side (along with the C/B/C# keys) to
be awkward for the fingers? I've found my pinky can't reach around
all 4 keys; I'm used to playing only 3 keys on that side.
JMcAulay
>Sorry for the confusion - I meant the left-hand A flat/ E flat key
>that is added extra on some instruments... I believe Festival
>clarinets have this added feature. On R-13 clarinets the Eflat/A flat
>key is only used in the right-hand. As anyone found this added key,
>sometimes added on the left-hand side (along with the C/B/C# keys) to
>be awkward for the fingers? I've found my pinky can't reach around
>all 4 keys; I'm used to playing only 3 keys on that side.
Though this may seem a bit picky, it's really an extra G#/d# key. And
I have never played one. Frankly, from the looks of some photographs,
I do not believe my left pinky functions in a way that would allow me
to use it for that purpose.
Patricola clarinets have the added key, said to be easily removable if
the player wishes.
Regards,
John
Mark Charette
news:3b636a1...@news.qnet.com...
> Though this may seem a bit picky, it's really an extra G#/d# key
I guess you'd better notify all the manufacturers that they're wrong in
their labeling ...
Mark C.
Peter Willis
You do realize that G#/D# are the same notes as Ab/Eb, right? And Buffet calls
it an "auxiliary Eb lever", so we're all wrong.
As for the actual question, I got used to the key, but I know others who
couldn't. Maybe hand size is associated somehow, I have pretty hands, they
don't. You can remove the *lever* pretty easily, as I recall. There are a few
different interlinkages that are used, but all the LH lever does is move the RH
key. You should be able to take the screw out (or have a repair tech or
teacher take it out for you - don't pay much for it since it should take
someone who knows what they're doing all of about 2 minutes to do) and pop the
lever off easily.
It's there to make your life easier. For a couple weeks, do some
etudes/studies and go out of your way to use the LH instead of RH, especially
those exercises where you normally have no choice but to slide your pinky.
Give it some time, give it a chance to serve its puspose. If it's too
uncomfortable or you feel that its potential to make your life any easier is
equal to your potential to win the lottery, take it off. No big deal.
Peter
Find links to saxophonia at my page:
http://homestead.juno.com/pfwillis/saxophone.html
Hans Christian Dörrscheidt
Boehm Leblanc clarinet shortly afterwards (not quite full, everything except
low Eb, to be exact), I got myself a Buffet festival, and though I didn't
have any problems moving around the lever, I never actually used the left
hand Eb/Ab (or D#/G#, whatever), because playing also saxophone, I got so
accustomed to a sliding right pinky, that I never really thought about using
the additional thing. Going back from 7 to 6 rings on the Festival gave me
enough trouble for my left pinky to deal with the C#/G# key, which I can't
keep down during arpeggios anymore. And if you're used to that, it's quite a
thing to get out of your system again.
But as someone else mentioned, it's really no big deal to remove the lever,
it's only one screw and doesn't affect the other keys. If you don't mind the
funny-looking space between the B and C# key...
Richard Bush
make them right. In this instance, they seem to be digressing to common,
not too accurate nomenclature. To expel all possible confusion and to call
this left hand lever by a complete and accurate name, we should all
henceforth and forever call it: "THE LEFT HAND G#/D# (Ab/Eb) LEVER!"
Mark Charette
impaired.
Considering that we tend to use an even tempered chromatic scale when
labeling things - why would one prefer one labeling over another anyway?
Mark C.
--
"Do you really need a chainsaw to cut a piece of cake? ;)"
--zak greant
"Richard Bush" <rbushi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B642B0D...@home.com...
Raymond
to G#/D#.
-Ray
Mark Charette <char...@sneezy.org> wrote in message
news:F0W87.40898$v5.58...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
Lelia Loban
>this left hand lever by a complete and accurate name, we should all
>henceforth and forever call it: "THE LEFT HAND G#/D# (Ab/Eb) LEVER!"
I call it, "The extra left-hand pinkie thingie."
;-)
Lelia
Please delete TOSSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
Richard Bush
blue, gray or yellow.
HOST Comp Tanker
never found it to be in the way at any time. What it does do is eliminate all
of the L-R problems that every other clarinet player has to deal with all of
the time.
On a saxophone, it's not quite so bad since you're only dealing with the notes
at the low end of the horn. But, the C# issues on the clarinet (since that's
the note around which most of the problems revolve) are a real obstacle to good
clarinet playing.
And, I still think that the biggest obstacle to the key (and the other
improvements to the "Boehm/Klose" horn are that few get to experience them.
Spend a few weeks with something and you can learn to appreciate it for what it
offers. But, if it's not there to test in the first place, you'll never know.
Other than the occasional horn that shows up on eBay (and one in the Mud Island
museum in Memphis) I've never seen any other full Boehm horns in use. Hard to
get an objective opinion if the only horn around for other to try is the one
that's in use whenever you see it.
From my standpoint and considerable experience, the Eb/Ab/D#/G# lever has
virtually no negatives and a host of positives. Barring some sort of physical
deformity or extremely short fingers, it should be something that any clarinet
player can operate.
Others might disagree (I've heard one opinion that it makes the horn too heavy,
all the while ignoring the effects of such "essentials" as the bell ring; for
the record, I once removed a Series 9 bell ring from a scrap bell and weighed
it...total mass was about twice that of the Eb lever). Just judging from the
density of the aux Eb lever horns out there, I'd say that few of those who
weigh in with an opinion have actually used one for more than a minute or so.
But, I could be wrong there.
I'd argue that the best way to find out if it was bad or good would be to seek
one out and try it.eBay has the occasional full Boehm and various combinations
of the other auxiliary key horns for sale, and usually at a quite reasonable
price.
Buy one, spend the minimal amount to get it brought to working standard, and
then find out for yourself. If you can't stand it, sell the horn. If you're not
sure, you've still got yourself a backup horn. And, if you like it, you can buy
a new horn with confidence that your money won't be wasted.
Terry L. Stibal
HOSTCom...@aol.com
HHR
c# and I want to play Eb (or in the lower register going from r.h pinky e
and f# to Ab)
I got this key extra made on my Buffet RC because its also on my bass
clarinet. On the bass it is even more necessary because its a low C
instrument and playing legato Ab - low Eb would be impossible. On the Bass
there are also two pinky low D keys and a third r.h. thumb low D, also to
prevents pinky problems in fast and legato playing.
To show the need for this key try playing middle Ab ; then Ab one octave
higher then middle b ( must do this with with right pinky because left is
playing Ab) and then Eb, all legato. This is the Ab minor chord, a very
normal musical phrase. With no extra Eb this is impossible!
Henk
"Lisa" <roya...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:220f14e9.01072...@posting.google.com...
Lisa
"Mark Charette" <char...@sneezy.org> wrote in message news:<F0W87.40898$v5.58...@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...
Ryan Luff
actually played some bass clarinet music that requires it. My clarinet is a
Normandy Noblet, from the mid-50's... my hands are quite large, so it is
harder to bend my pinkies to press the C/F on the left and the C#/F# on the
right. On fast passages it can be a life-saver.
-Ryan Luff
JMcAulay
Hey, Mark, you send me the contact names and addresses, and I'll get
the word out right away. :)
Seriously, if you're playing an A or e, depressing that key will not
cause those notes to be flatted. Yes, surely... depressing, isn't it.
For that matter, it's also rather depressing to see some manufacturers
referring to the clarinet thumb key as an "octave" key. Perhaps
they've missed a little something: like, say, a perfect fifth (not to
be confused with a container of Laphroaig or The Antiquary).
Regards,
John
just naturally depressed at the moment
JMcAulay
wrote:
>I call it, "The extra left-hand pinkie thingie."
>;-)
Lelia, it saddens me that Leon Leblanc could not have lived to see
your posting, as I can feel so certain that all Leblanc literature
might well have been updated forthwith to include this new and
refreshing nomenclature.
Indeed. We are in your debt. And regarding debt, might I use this
colorful appelation myself, without formal license or payment of
royalties?
Regards,
John
Mark Charette
> a perfect fifth (not to
> be confused with a container of Laphroaig
As Homer Simpson would put it ...
"Mmmm. Smokey."
Mark C.
Lisa
HOST Comp Tanker
I've seen photos of horns dating to the 1860's with such a key in place.
Certainly by 1900, it was offered by such diverse sources as Selmer and Oskar
Oehler (yes, the German manufacturer of the "Oehler system" clarinets also made
"Boehm system" horns.
Selmer horns dating back to the 1920's and 1930's with this (and other
improvements, such as the articulated G# key (good) and the fork Eb key (okay,
but not vital) are regularly seen on eBay. I once saw a metal horn with all of
these mechanisms, and they've been out of vogue for a long time.
However, as I previously mentioned, most clarinet players will never run across
one simply because they are a "special order" item and are thus not going to be
present unless someone makes the trouble to order them up. Student clarinets
don't get this treatment even if you want it, and intermediate (Signet &
Noblet) horns are the same. Even the pro line horns usually come sans any such
bells and whistles, so when the typical "serious student" wants to try out a
few horns, they get a set of 17/6 "Boehms" and that's it.
Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy affair: nobody uses them because nobody can
try them first; nobody can try them first because nobody uses them (to have one
around to try)...
If you make the ICS Clarifest over in New Orleans next month, both Selmer and
LeBlanc usually have "full Boehm" horns there to be played with ("...with which
to be played"). But, even an hour in a practice room isn't the equivalent of an
extended trial. Still, if you do try one out, take along some extreme key music
(my recommendation is "Everything's Coming Up Roses" from the original version
of the Sondheim musical "Gypsy"...seven flats has a way of making long
arpeggios interesting) and see what a difference the three mechanisms can make
(Eb lever, articulated G#, fork Eb).
Terry L. Stibal
HOSTCom...@aol.com
Lelia Loban
>colorful appelation myself, without formal license or payment of
>royalties?
Absolutely. All yours.
I double-dare you....
Lisa
this extra e flat key.... does anyone know if there are A clarinets,
for example, that have this key? somehow i thought only the B flat
clarinets had this.... now i am wondering if different types of
clarinets (especially the A) have this key as well.
HOST Comp Tanker
and A clarinets, which would have included the Eb lever on same. My old Selmer
A horn (circa 1970-something) has the Ab/Eb lever, as well as the other
options.
Selmer professional level bass clarinets (both Bb and A) have offered the
"whatever it's called" lever that opens the Eb/Ab hole for at least twenty
years (in the case of the A) and for over thirty years (in the case of the Bb;
my Model 33 dates back to some time before 1969 and it's so equipped). They
also have the wonderful articulated G# key as standard equipment.
You won't see as many of the A horns with this feature for the simple fact that
there are fewer A horns in the first place, and those that exist get less use
and are less likely to be "moved" in the secondary market.
If I had to weigh the desirability of having each of the keys in the suite, I'd
rate them as follows:
1) Ab/Eb lever, by a long shot. Advantages: myriad, mostly dealing with the L-R
issue. Disadvantages: virtually none (possibly an obstacle to some short hands,
a miniscule extra amount of weight)
2) Articulated G#/C#, a very strong second. Advantages: never have "the
bubbles" again, as the hole is now on top of the horn; extra facility in all
extreme keys with one of the weaker fingers; smoother transitions from G#/C#
southward, as little finger coming up does not need to coordinate with others
going down; commonality with saxophone technique. Disadvantages: "It's
complicated" (as if other horns don't manage with this complexity, cf oboes and
bass clarinet register keys); pad can stick (which can be dealt with through
simple maintenance or a synthetic pad), it changes some of the altissimo
fingerings (which can differ from clarinet to clarinet in any event)
3) Eb/Bb fork for left hand. Advantages: I used to think that this one wasn't
too useful, but then I started in playing pit music again. In extreme keys,
this can come in quite handy, particularly in rapid arpeggi (sic?).
Disadvantages: left third finger set at different level from norm, which takes
some getting used to and can affect technique if you have different horns (A
one way, Bb the other), plus loss of one fingering in upper register.
4) Low Eb key. Advantages: allows you to play A parts on Bb horn, particularly
critical for those bass clarinet players without the extra six Gs to buy an A
bass clarinet; adds sonority to B in staff (a big plus in my eyes); affords a
passable Bb in the staff for fast passages. Disadvantages: slight extra amount
of weight due to longer tube; one more damn key to keep adjusted.
(The low Eb I would advise against, simply because most will have the A
clarinet as well and don't really need it. For bass clarinets, all have range
down to low Eb these days (it was not always so), so it's unavoidable.
Dear ol' Rosario must be smiling right now, with all this talk of alternative
key systems...
Terry L. Stibal
HOSTCom...@aol.com
Lisa
what kind of other extra 'keys' (whatever they are called) can be put
on clarinets to make some notes easier to play??
JB
your audience can hear your favorite clarinetist playing the note that
you're supposed to be.;)
--
John B.
"Lisa" <roya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:220f14e9.01080...@posting.google.com...
HOST Comp Tanker
>> what kind of other extra 'keys' (whatever they are called) can be put
>> on clarinets to make some notes easier to play??
With some minor exceptions (such as revision to the extension keywork on some
bass clarinets; I've had a little done on mine), it's relatively uncommon to
have the features under discussion (extra Eb lever for left hand, articulated
G#, fork Eb, and low Eb extension) added to a clarinet after production. (I say
it this way because I've never seen them added (and some would be impossible to
add, such as the G#), but I'm sure someone's tried at one point or another.
The norm here is to buy a horn with them in place, which then makes operative
the main problem with "extra keys": so few have tried them that they are
reluctant to "take a chance", which leads to few being sold, thus limiting the
chances that they can be tried, and so forth, da capo ad infinitim.
But, both Selmer and LeBlanc offer these horns, and you may be able to get one
or two sent out on approval. However, you're going to be paying for a
professional clarinet plus a premium of a hundred or so bucks on top of
same...another reason why we don't see them.
Due to this ongoing discussion, I kept a rough "hash mark" track of the times
that I availed myself of the extra features of my Bb soprano last night during
a big band job. As near as I could recall (things got a little hectic between
some numbers, and the totals might have been a bit skewed as a result), I used
the articulated G# many dozens of times, the Eb lever almost as frequently, the
fork Eb seldom normally but a lot in one "high flat count" number, and the low
Eb not at all.
(The above was amassed during perhaps five lead parts plus a bunch of other
"fill parts" during a three set night. Some of the totals were guessed at after
playing the number and then quickly going over the part to pick out the usage
points. Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited by law...)
The best solution remains to watch eBay and pick up an old horn used at a
reasonable price. Then, if you like what you've bought, next time you upgrade
clarinets, spend the minimal extra amount to go the "full Boehm" route...and
you'll have a backup clarinet in the bargain. If you don't like it, you're only
out perhaps twice the normal price difference, and you've still got a backup
clarinet. Win-win, in the "feel good management speak" of the modern day...
Terry L. Stibal
HOSTCom...@aol.com
Dee D. Hays
"HOST Comp Tanker" <hostcom...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20010802142852...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
> ... Due to this ongoing discussion, I kept a rough "hash mark" track of
the times
> that I availed myself of the extra features of my Bb soprano last night
during
> a big band job. As near as I could recall (things got a little hectic
between
> some numbers, and the totals might have been a bit skewed as a result), I
used
> the articulated G# many dozens of times, the Eb lever almost as
frequently, the
> fork Eb seldom normally but a lot in one "high flat count" number, and the
low
> Eb not at all.
When you say you used the articulated G# dozens of times, did you
differentiate between just playing the note G# or it's special uses such as
the F# to G# trill (or Gb to Ab), which it is supposed to facilitate. I
think it would only be legitimate to count those times when you took
advantage of its special characteristics not those times when you are just
playing a G# (or Ab) in the piece.
Dee Hays
Michigan
HOST Comp Tanker
>differentiate between just playing the note G# or it's special uses >such as
>the F# to G# trill (or Gb to Ab), which it is supposed to facilitate. I
>think it would only be legitimate to count those times when you took
>advantage of its special characteristics not those times when you are >just
>playing a G# (or Ab) in the piece.
As for the use in a trill, it didn't occur once (trills are relatively rare in
"big band" music; out of the seven hundred numbers in our rather large book,
I'd say there are not more than twenty trills indicated (and most of those for
sax, of course)). The uses that I noted were in arpeggi and moving parts (like
dipping down to D# from G#, then back up again) and so forth; instances that
(for the G# systems on sax and clarinet) allow you to keep the little finger
down through the whole problem. These were in addition to the normal "play a G#
as a whole, half or quarter note" instances.
I've used the "sliver" trill key for G# now and then over the years, mostly in
shows, but it's one that I have to think about rather than coming as second
nature.
And, as I said, this was just a rough total, done in the heat of battle (so to
speak). I was prepared to the extent that I had the means to total the uses (a
database on a Palm OS PDA), and that I was sensitive to the occasions when the
use would crop up (in the clarinet numbers). However, I don't claim that this
was all done with 100% precision; not enough time in every instance when I
could do the quick review and then total things up before I had to start in on
the next number. One thing that you don't EVER want to do is to hurry the
process of getting a baritone saxophone mouthpiece into your mouth...
One other note. The ONLY time that I "use" the low Eb key on either of the
sopranos is when I am using the Bb horn as a "substitute bass" at a rehearsal.
(I fill in a lot of bass clarinet parts in the ballads where the arranger
assumes that there won't be a bass available; if the rest of the front row is
on clarinet and flute, then I transpose the baritone part on bass clarinet so
as to keep things consistent.)
Now, as I don't normally tote the bass along to rehearsals, I do this
transposing on the soprano when one of these numbers comes up. In addition to
the normal Eb to Bb transposition, this requires a drop of an octave to get
things in the right register. At that time, I occasionally (very occasionally)
find a need to trip the low Eb key. Other than on those occasions, it NEVER
gets used. (I've always played all the A parts on my A horn, never having to do
the A to Bb transposition thing.)
(Of course, the most useful thing about the low Eb key has nothing to do with
playing the note itself. The best thing that it does for the clarinet is to
make the B in the staff consistent with the rest of the horn's tone quality.)
...
Terry L. Stibal
HOSTCom...@aol.com