What kind of pad glue/cement do you recommended?
Graham Nasby
I will be doing some padwork on a couple clarinets I have. I have so far
found there are 3 options I have in regards to glue:
hot glue (as from low-temp glue gun)
stick shelac
"french cement" - which I have never seen
Are there any advantages to using one type of glue over another? Using
hot glue seems enticing because of ease of application. Does anyone have
any advice?
Many thank in advance,
Graham
--
0============================ Graham Nasby =========================0
|= Engineering Systems & Computing Student University of Guelph =|
|= Concertmaster, Rabble-rouser Guelph Concert Band =|
|= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =|
|= gna...@uoguelph.ca http://www.uoguelph.ca/~gnasby icq: 905352 =|
0===================================================================0
NB: When "replying", please include a copy of my original msg. Thanks
John E. Lindberg
temperature (as when the clarinet is used outside at roughly freezing
point). It does tend to melt at a higher temperatue than other types
of adhesives.
Stick shellac is an older method. It melts at a lower temperature
than hot glue, but tends to be brittle--a sharp blow to the
instrument, or, again, a change in temperature to roughly freezing
point, can cause the shellac to separate from key, causing the pad to
fall out.
French cement (available from Ferrees Tools) has the lowest melting
point of the three, and adheres better than shellac, but not so well
as hot glue.
Many instrument makers are now using hot glue--which is also my
preference for its durability.
Stephen Howard
Lindberg) wrote:
>Hot glue gives the most durable bond--resistant to changes in
>temperature (as when the clarinet is used outside at roughly freezing
>point). It does tend to melt at a higher temperatue than other types
>of adhesives.
>
I'm not so sure about that - it was always my impression that plastic
glue melted at a lower temperature. I've certainly found that the glue
stays flexible longer once heated than shellac - which can be
problematic when setting pads.
Of note perhaps more with regard to saxes, I find the plastic glue
doesn't give a particularly firm seat - you don't quite get that nice
'pop' as the pad closes.
>Stick shellac is an older method. It melts at a lower temperature
>than hot glue, but tends to be brittle--a sharp blow to the
>instrument, or, again, a change in temperature to roughly freezing
>point, can cause the shellac to separate from key, causing the pad to
>fall out.
Shellac can be brittle at low temperatures - but you'd be unlikely to
be playing in such conditions ( or at least extremely slowly! ).
As for a knock dislodging a pad - I feel this would be the least of
your worries were your instrument to receive such a knock!
>
>French cement (available from Ferrees Tools) has the lowest melting
>point of the three, and adheres better than shellac, but not so well
>as hot glue.
When you say French cement are you referring to the white stick
shellac? This is what I use for white skin pads on clarinets. You can
use it with any kind of pad - but it tends to show around the edges of
brown leather pads...looks a bit scruffy.
>
>Many instrument makers are now using hot glue--which is also my
>preference for its durability.
>
It really does boil down to personal preference in the end - all these
glues will do the job, each with their own advantages/disadvantages.
For the home repairer I'd recommend the plastic glue - but use it
sparingly, a little goes a long, long way.
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
Lelia Loban
>Lindberg) wrote:
>
>>Hot glue gives the most durable bond--resistant to changes in
>>temperature (as when the clarinet is used outside at roughly freezing
>>point). It does tend to melt at a higher temperatue than other types
>>of adhesives.
The problem with discussing hot glue is that there are well over 100 different
types on the market, and they vary a great deal. I've looked over what they
stock in the Read Plastics store in Rockville, MD (a fraction of what's
available in the fat catalogue) and found everything from very cheap, brittle
stuff to super-tough glues meant for big industrial jobs. They all specify
what they're meant to bond--some for porous materials, some for non-porous,
some for plastics, some for wood, etc. My husband buys cold glue by the
gallon, and I used to buy a super-strength industrial hot glue for wood in
1000-stick crates, so we're sort of a glue-oriented family here, but even so,
I'm confused by the variety and more inclined to go with the products sold by
Ferree's specifically for musical instrument pads. I've used both stick
shellac and "French cement" (which as far as I can tell is a slightly more
brittle shellac with a white color base added) and like them both.
The main thing I want from pad glue is the ability to move the pad around
easily, or remove it, without using an auger bit. Some of the glues I've found
on old instuments --sheesh. There's such a thing as glue that's too strong for
the job.
Lelia
Please delete TOSSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
Steve Marshall
it. (?)
It's what I use a lot but I also use plastic hot glues a lot too. I have a
stick of shellac handy for the customer that insists on it, but I find the
French cement works best - whatever the melting point is.
Steve M
"Lelia Loban" <lelia...@aol.comTOSSPAM> wrote in message
news:20010713172017...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
John E. Lindberg
<sees...@email.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:10:09 GMT, john.l...@mnsu.edu (John E.
>Lindberg) wrote:
>
>>Hot glue gives the most durable bond--resistant to changes in
>>temperature (as when the clarinet is used outside at roughly freezing
>>point). It does tend to melt at a higher temperatue than other types
>>of adhesives.
>>
>
>I'm not so sure about that - it was always my impression that plastic
>glue melted at a lower temperature. I've certainly found that the glue
>stays flexible longer once heated than shellac - which can be
>problematic when setting pads.
As another response notes--there are dozens of varieties of hot glues
available. The hot glue sticks I refer to are ones readily available
in department stores. The glue tends to not flow as nicely as other
types of adhesive--which could lead to seating problems noted below.
>
>Of note perhaps more with regard to saxes, I find the plastic glue
>doesn't give a particularly firm seat - you don't quite get that nice
>'pop' as the pad closes.
>
>>Stick shellac is an older method. It melts at a lower temperature
>>than hot glue, but tends to be brittle--a sharp blow to the
>>instrument, or, again, a change in temperature to roughly freezing
>>point, can cause the shellac to separate from key, causing the pad to
>>fall out.
>
>Shellac can be brittle at low temperatures - but you'd be unlikely to
>be playing in such conditions ( or at least extremely slowly! ).
>As for a knock dislodging a pad - I feel this would be the least of
>your worries were your instrument to receive such a knock!
I write from Minnesota--instruments do get cold here, and even a
gentle tap can dislodge a pad seated with shellac.
>>
>>French cement (available from Ferrees Tools) has the lowest melting
>>point of the three, and adheres better than shellac, but not so well
>>as hot glue.
>
>When you say French cement are you referring to the white stick
>shellac? This is what I use for white skin pads on clarinets. You can
>use it with any kind of pad - but it tends to show around the edges of
>brown leather pads...looks a bit scruffy.
>
This is (I believe) another variant of French cement.
Lelia Loban
>As another response notes--there are dozens of varieties of hot glues
>available. The hot glue sticks I refer to are ones readily available
>in department stores.
I'm making my stupid pet human type this. She thinks she fell asleep at the
computer and never suspects I'm telepathically controlling her. Here's a handy
repair that everyone should do on their screech stick clarinets right away.
You need the kind of hot glue that's made for glueing wood to metal and that's
really strong and will never, never, never come loose. Here's what you do.
First, you take all the keys off the screech stick. Just throw the keys away.
You don't need those any more. Next you glue all the sections of the cl*r*n*t
devil together just as if you were going to play the screech stick, except
don't bother with the bell. Just throw that part away.
Next, you take the mouthpiece, and put a reed on it, and then fill up the whole
inside of the mouthpiece with hot glue. Just fill it right up nice and solid,
and then glue the mouthpiece onto the barrel, where it would go if you were
dumb enough to play the nasty thing. Now you take a garden hose adapter and
glue that on, where the bell used to go. If the size isn;t quite right, wrap
it together with some duct tape and put more glue over the duct tape.
You have just made yourself a garden bubbler. Now you can take your bubbler
outside to the patch where you're growing some lovely catnip. Turn the water
on gently and it will flow out of all the little holes where the keys used to
be. That way the bubbler will water your catnip gadually, without flooding the
soil and making gullies. The bubbler is much more useful to the world than the
nasty screaming evil screech stick, trust me.
Shadow Cat
who only has your best interests at heart