Plastic pro clarinets?
TJ
swinging sounds of Kenny Davern playing summertime with Howard Alden on
guitar. I said to myself what a nice sound he gets.....I wonder if the
horn and stuff he uses in noted on the CD notes. It was and this is what
it said:
Kenny Davern performs on a Conn 16 plastic clarinet......Is this for
real? Are there pro clarinets that are made of plastic ? Or is Kenny
proving that with good ears, chops, reasonable intelligence and musical
taste you can make almost anything at whatever price sound great?
Any ideas?
BTW he uses a Vandoren 5JB piece with this horn.
Thanks
TJ
--
Please remove the word NOSPAM from my E Mail address when replying.
Thank you
Steven Knight
I play in a small orchestra with about five clarinets. The other four all
play with silver plated grenadilla wood clarinets, yet there is no
discernability between us. Many people have said that they prefer the more
direct sound that you can get from plastic.
My clarinet is far from pro, though.
My clarinet is a Yamaha YCL26 and its about 15 years old. Its a school
instrument that hasn't seen a service in its history. Putting that aside I
am a grade 6 clarinetist and all the stern - faced AB examiners (:-) have
said that they liked my warm rich tone.
I think a lot depends upon the player/reed/mouthpiece combination as to
whether you can get a good sound. I think when buying an instrument it
should be does this clarinet work with me. NOT this clarinet costs £2000 so
it must be better than a £1500.
Try them all out.
I have had experience on playing with many 'pro' instruments costing from
£1000 to £2500 and to be honest I hated some of the more exspensive ones !!!
Of course if your spending £400 on a clarinet, it will not be as good as a
£2000 as more money can be spent on getting better quality materials.
BUT TRY THEM ALL
Yours
Steven
"TJ" <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:39A00922...@nospamsympatico.ca...
Dee Hays
TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
> While I work at my computer I am listening to the very smooth and
> swinging sounds of Kenny Davern playing summertime with Howard Alden
on
> guitar. I said to myself what a nice sound he gets.....I wonder if the
> horn and stuff he uses in noted on the CD notes. It was and this is
what
> it said:
>
> Kenny Davern performs on a Conn 16 plastic clarinet......Is this for
> real? Are there pro clarinets that are made of plastic ? Or is Kenny
> proving that with good ears, chops, reasonable intelligence and
musical
> taste you can make almost anything at whatever price sound great?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> BTW he uses a Vandoren 5JB piece with this horn.
>
The Conn 16 plastic is a student grade clarinet that is probably not
quite as good as today's plastic Vitos, Yamahas, student Selmers and
student Buffets. So I would have to say, that he is proving that it is
the player not the equipment. Like they say, a pro would sound good on
a garden hose while a beginner will sound like a beginner on anything.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John H. Morrison
"Dee Hays" wrote:
> student Buffets. So I would have to say, that he is proving that it is
> the player not the equipment. Like they say, a pro would sound good on
> a garden hose while a beginner will sound like a beginner on anything.
In "The Clarinet," Jack Brymer wrote that a student, who still sounds blah
on his clarinet, will some time try his teacher's clarinet. Almost always,
he produces the same sound as his teacher. Then the next step is to
convince the student that he can get the same sound from his own
clarinet.
Doug.
Morrison <jo...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes
Well! - 1 Disagree with that assumption. We are talking about "tone"
here. My opinion is that , given a fairly decent instrument, any player
will get his own sound on any instrument, the instrument has to be a
fairly good one.
The sound comes, - after he/she has developed an embouchure , - from
the player's heart and soul. Again, the mouthpiece and its lay length and
tip opening have to be right. Then there's the reed to consider. People
seem to have this silly idea that if you get a seasoned oak floorboard and
shape it with an adze (Learners! ,- that is an old chestnut joke. Don't be
led astray!) you are home and dry. Nothing could be further from the
truth.
I always teach, - Which player's tone do you admire, the pure clean tone
of the classic soloist or the brighter, fuller, brasher tone of the jazz
blaster?
Get a record and listen to it. Try to simulate that tone, but remember two
things,
1. you won't get it straight away, partly because all peoples ears are
different, yours included. The frequency response of the human ear is
approx 500 hertz (cycles per second) up to 24k hertz. Also the shape of
the curve is pretty much the roughly the same, but not exactly, everyone
has slight anomalies somewhere up that frequency band.
(Do not let this make you think you are a freak, - you aren't).
2. Remember that the recording has been in the hands of engineers and
they have added or deducted harmonics and echo here and there which
greatly enhance the quality of the tone.
Proof.
I have a karaoke set. I mount a small mike on top of my clart and plug
into the karaoke set and start to play. I fiddle with the echo (not too
much!, or it destroys the subtlety). Presto! I am Jack Brymer re-
incarnated.! Switch off , I am me again.
When I get a better machine I am going to show my old friend Acker how
to play!.
(I should coco!) (Which means dear learners, -'That'll be the day!!').
If it's any comfort to you here's an anecdote.
I have played over the years with a trumpet player who gets a very flat
nasal tone all the time. He's tried everything,
Renewed this and that, spent big money, -(including his wife's gin
money!). No good! - he still sounds the same.
The old, old advice still stands good and true.. Know what you are
looking for , then after that it's long notes, long notes, and listening all
the time.
Best of luck to all youngsters, and remember this, - that aged lady
cornet player with the silver hair in that Sally-army Band down the High
street has not just one gift from Heaven, - she has two.
The added gift is, - Music in her heart, - therefore,
She will *never* walk alone!.
--Doug.
John H. Morrison
"Doug." wrote:
> different, yours included. The frequency response of the human ear is
> approx 500 hertz (cycles per second) up to 24k hertz. Also the shape of
500 Hz? The tuning A is lower than that -- 440 Hz. Try 20 Hz as the
lower end of the human ear.
Gardner
Hawkes ebonite (hard rubber) student model, a Boosey & Hawkes
'Edgeware' wooden model (it used to be one up from the ebonite student
range and a Buffet R13.
I enjoy playing them all and I can produce a sound from each that
listeners say they find hard to distinguish, however, the intonation
on both wooden clarinets is infinitely truer than on the ebonite (I
have to either 'lip' or 'shade' certain notes on the ebonite.) The
wooden tones are warmer and richer in harmonics (to my ear) and I find
the dynamic range of the R13 greater than the other two. Having said
all that, I prefer the Edgeware, which, if it was still made would
probably represent a quarter of the value of the R13.
As other contributors have observed in the past, the sound in the
player's head and ears is almost certainly a fundamentally different
experience to that of the listener, and (selfishly) for me the most
important.
On 20 Aug 2000 18:15:18 -0500, "John H. Morrison"
Gardner
P.S. to my last - I admire Kenny Davern's technique and conception
enormously, but, hearing in concert at jazz festivals, I have found
his tone harsh and unemotional. When he played in Soprano Summit on
clarinet duets with Bob Wilber, the latter's tone, to my ears, was
infinitely superior.
TJ
have with Boosey and Hawkes Clarinets especially the ebonite Edgewares.
They were absolutely the worst school priced horn that was ever made by
man. No student that I ever had could play those turkeys in tune..Any
kid who got assigned one of these horns would say to me.....what did I
do to deserve this?....No one would go near them. I finally sold them to
an Englishman who was a priest and who taught music in a Jesuit
seminary.
I could play them in tune with a heck of a lot of pressure adapting and
accessory jigging.....other pros that I had try them would just cringe
at the thought of playing these babies.
Lots of other horns were cheaper and superior. I remember how
unbelievably good were horns like the Noblet, Vito and the Normandie.
Bundy's were fine. SML's from France were really good but required a lot
servicing.....not sturdy enough for school work.
Talking about turkeys. In front of me I have an old Cundy Bettoney from
the thirties with Covered Holes like a flute or saxophone. If ever I get
a gig in a marching band and have to play outside in the winter I'll
wear gloves and take this horn to the gig.
So you don't like Kenny D's tone. I don't agree with you on that.....and
that's cool......but whatever is a good warm jazz tone like other
things is all in the beholder's ear.....and that's cool also.
Dee Hays
Gardner <An...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I have three Bb clarinets that I play regularly - An old Boosey &
> Hawkes ebonite (hard rubber) student model, a Boosey & Hawkes
> 'Edgeware' wooden model (it used to be one up from the ebonite student
> range and a Buffet R13.
>
> I enjoy playing them all and I can produce a sound from each that
> listeners say they find hard to distinguish, however, the intonation
> on both wooden clarinets is infinitely truer than on the ebonite (I
> have to either 'lip' or 'shade' certain notes on the ebonite.) The
> wooden tones are warmer and richer in harmonics (to my ear) and I find
> the dynamic range of the R13 greater than the other two. Having said
> all that, I prefer the Edgeware, which, if it was still made would
> probably represent a quarter of the value of the R13.
It would be more accurate to say that the intonation is truer on the
stepup and professional models than on the student model. There is no
reason to believe that this would be due to material. The worst horn I
have ever played for intonation accuracy was an old wooden Pan
American. I would take a modern Leblanc Vito plastic over that Pan
American any day.
As far as "warmer and richer" in harmonics, again there is no reason to
attribute this to material. Any number of design features in the
higher level instruments could be causing this. Or, if you are using
different mouthpieces, it might very well be due to the mouthpiece. Or
it could be due to other elements of your setup.
Rich R
Dee
As usual you hit it right on the head! I once got tired of a clarinet
player in her 40s always complaining about her clarinet being so bad.
It was an old Vito if fair condition - needing a little pad work. I
pulled the mouthpiece and tuning barrel (click barrel) from my horn and
put it on hers and played her horn. Was not quite the same as my ole
trusty Selmer, but she never said a word after that.
Also those old Pan Americans are everywhere - find them in swap shops
and auctions all over the place. They sure look nice - play like a
sick dog.
The Leblanc I have was played by a nice old lady who couldn't get a
good tone if you gave her a custom pro model. No matter what level
horn, it all sounds the same - awful.
One other note - there is some difference. My wife noticed it right
away. She can tell the difference between me on the Selmer and me on
the Yamaha. The Selmer is much brighter and up high thinner than the
Yamaha. The Selmer with the B-45 come close the the Yamaha with the B-
46. Both with the Click barrel. The Leblanc plays closer to that of
the Yamaha, but requires more force and appears not quite as flexible -
jazz wise - as the others. I still have to get used to the Yamaha, but
is seems to allow me more tone bending than the Selmer - on this I am
surprised as the Yamaha is small bore! I expected a more difficult
time with it - Stiull wonder if the SE-V would have been a better
choice. Guess I'll never find out.
Anyway -great insight!
Rich R.
PS - Still like Benny Goodman over Mozart any day.....
Doug.
Morrison <jo...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes
>
>"Doug." wrote:
>
>> different, yours included. The frequency response of the human ear is
>> approx 500 hertz (cycles per second) up to 24k hertz. Also the shape of
>
>500 Hz? The tuning A is lower than that -- 440 Hz. Try 20 Hz as the
>lower end of the human ear.
At one a.m. in the morning, mistakes do tend to creep in. You are
absolutely right and after 40 years in the Comms business I should watch
my step. 20 is the lowest threshold, but for simplicity I usually quote 50
to a new student in order to demonstrate, - by the analogy of comparing
the pitch to the pitch of the "Hum" of our 50 hertz electric mains supply.
Just as a matter of interest, I play string bass, and the pitch of the low E
string is , - if I remember correctly, - about 47 hertz.
--Doug.
Saul Fromkin
started doing his repairs back in the late 50s. When I first met him he
was playing on a Buffet, and even tried his hand on playing Selmer B.T.s &
C.T.s ... He could'nt stand the fluctuating pitch of the wood clarinets,
and gave them up for the more stable plastic...........
Saul Fromkin
> swinging sounds of Kenny Davern playing summertime with Howard Alden on
> guitar. I said to myself what a nice sound he gets.....I wonder if the
> horn and stuff he uses in noted on the CD notes. It was and this is what
> it said:
>
> Kenny Davern performs on a Conn 16 plastic clarinet......Is this for
> real? Are there pro clarinets that are made of plastic ? Or is Kenny
> proving that with good ears, chops, reasonable intelligence and musical
> taste you can make almost anything at whatever price sound great?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> BTW he uses a Vandoren 5JB piece with this horn.
>
TJ
while you are all here I wonder if you could indulge me by responding to
the following?
I have been away from clarinet playing and music for a while and I am
just getting back to things and I have the following questions:
1) Someone here in this thread referred to a click barrel. What is that?
2) One of my favourite jazz clarinetists is Chuck Hedges. From a picture
on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have a
corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
3)Why did Cundy B in the 30's make clarinets with covered holes? Was it
for marching band players in the winter so that they could wear gloves
while playing or was it for sax doublers who didn't have the required
coordination to be able to cover the open holes of the clarinet with
their bare fingers?
4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
saxophone....?
Rich R
TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
> Thank you all for your comments....that was very interesting.....but
> while you are all here I wonder if you could indulge me by responding
to
> the following?
>
> I have been away from clarinet playing and music for a while and I am
> just getting back to things and I have the following questions:
>
> 1) Someone here in this thread referred to a click barrel. What is
that?
>
That was probably me. I use one on my clarinets to stay in tune with
the different groups I play ing rather than carry several tuning barrels
or pull out the barrel to get the tuning correct. I have a locking
click on my Selmer/Yamaha and a regular click for the Leblanc.
This is done because the Jazz and Dixieland groups tend to play sharper
than the concert groups. Even the concert groups are never the same.
Difference can be from 1 to 4mm (clicks).
> 2) One of my favourite jazz clarinetists is Chuck Hedges. From a
picture
> on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have
a corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
>
Just another brand of tuning barrel (cannot remember the name). Uses
sleves of 1/2mm to accomplish the same as the click barrel.
> 3)Why did Cundy B in the 30's make clarinets with covered holes? Was
it
> for marching band players in the winter so that they could wear gloves
> while playing or was it for sax doublers who didn't have the required
> coordination to be able to cover the open holes of the clarinet with
> their bare fingers?
>
Don't know about this.....
> 4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
> saxophone....?
>
There was something called the Plato system available on usually student
level instruments. It was sold when I was a youngster. Now days I've
not seen one, though I can get parts to put one together on a standard
clarinet.
> TJ
> --
> Please remove the word NOSPAM from my E Mail address when replying.
> Thank you
>
Rich R.
Peter Willis
they were wood, but because they were better models. I think he said "the two
wooden" because the both just happened to be wood.
>1) Someone here in this thread referred to a click barrel. What is that?
It's an adjustable barrel. It's got a little clicking wheel you turn to adjust
the length of the barrel, thus the name "Click." Click actually makes a couple
different models, variations on the same theme.
>2) One of my favourite jazz clarinetists is Chuck Hedges. From a picture
on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have a
corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
It's called an Accubore barrel, made by DEG. I happen to have a DEG catalog
right here (weird) and Chuck is actually pictured right underneath the barrel
as an endorser. Here's what the catalog says:
manufacures from an aluminum /bronze alloy... improves response, tone quality,
and intonation... ribbed design produces a brighter and more brilliant quality
of sound.
>3)Why did Cundy B in the 30's make clarinets with covered holes?
I would bet it was for beginners who had small fingers and had trouble covering
the holes.
>4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
>saxophone....?
I know Leblanc does (on Vito at least), and I'd bet Selmer (USA) and Buffet
have it at least as an option. I'm pretty sure the reasoning for the covered
holes is for beginners, but my old sax teacher has a slight deformity on his
ring finger, I think the end bone never developed (I'd say it looks like it got
cut off, but he has a nail) and his R13 has a little custom keywork on it that
has a closed hole and an extension for that finger. Point being, you can get
anything customized anyway you want it, it'll just cost you more. Leblanc has
their entire catalog in PDF format on their website, and the closed hole
clarinet is listed there (I remember seeing it), but on anything but a Vito or
other lowest-end clarinet it may be customization. I would guess that even the
Vito that they produce that way would be a special order for 99% of music
stores.
Peter
Find links to saxophonia at my page:
http://homestead.juno.com/pfwillis/saxophone.html
Séverine Wilmart
I' ve played clarinet for six years. I have a clarinet 'Buffey Crampon" from
Paris. It's a wooden calrinet. I prefer the sound of a wooden clarinet that
a plastic clarinet. The sound is more warmer and lovely. We can express more
emotions ands feelings. The tone coul be brigther. We have only a problem
with the wooden clarinet : we must be carrefoul with the change of the
temperatures. With the water and a grand difference of temperatures the
clarinet could have splits and cracks. We've not this problem with the
plastic clarinet. I think that the plastic clarinet is practical when we
must play outside.
Séverine.
Gardner
played a covered hole clarinet, and they were available in the '50s,
but I have never seen one on sale since.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:48:24 GMT, TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca>
wrote:
>Thank you all for your comments....that was very interesting.....but
>while you are all here I wonder if you could indulge me by responding to
>the following?
>
>I have been away from clarinet playing and music for a while and I am
>just getting back to things and I have the following questions:
>
>1) Someone here in this thread referred to a click barrel. What is that?
>
>2) One of my favourite jazz clarinetists is Chuck Hedges. From a picture
>on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have a
>corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
>
>3)Why did Cundy B in the 30's make clarinets with covered holes? Was it
>for marching band players in the winter so that they could wear gloves
>while playing or was it for sax doublers who didn't have the required
>coordination to be able to cover the open holes of the clarinet with
>their bare fingers?
>
>4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
>saxophone....?
>
>TJ
Gardner
not Doug!), and I recognises the point made about many possible
explanations for the difference. I am not saying wood is necessarily
the explanation, however, I cannot accept the view that the material
from which the clarinet makes no contribution to the tone - it seems
to be contrary to common sense, whatever an acoustics engineer or
scientist might say. Why don't we make wooden trumpets?
On 21 Aug 2000 18:43:08 GMT, pwill...@aol.com- (Peter Willis) wrote:
>Dee, I don't think that Doug meant the R13 and Edgeware were better because
>they were wood, but because they were better models. I think he said "the two
>wooden" because the both just happened to be wood.
>
>>1) Someone here in this thread referred to a click barrel. What is that?
>
>It's an adjustable barrel. It's got a little clicking wheel you turn to adjust
>the length of the barrel, thus the name "Click." Click actually makes a couple
>different models, variations on the same theme.
>
>>2) One of my favourite jazz clarinetists is Chuck Hedges. From a picture
>on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have a
>corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
>
>It's called an Accubore barrel, made by DEG. I happen to have a DEG catalog
>right here (weird) and Chuck is actually pictured right underneath the barrel
>as an endorser. Here's what the catalog says:
>manufacures from an aluminum /bronze alloy... improves response, tone quality,
>and intonation... ribbed design produces a brighter and more brilliant quality
>of sound.
>
>>3)Why did Cundy B in the 30's make clarinets with covered holes?
>
>I would bet it was for beginners who had small fingers and had trouble covering
>the holes.
>
>>4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
>>saxophone....?
>
Dee Hays
TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
> Thank you all for your comments....that was very interesting.....but
> while you are all here I wonder if you could indulge me by responding
to
> the following?
>
Was it
> for marching band players in the winter so that they could wear gloves
> while playing or was it for sax doublers who didn't have the required
> coordination to be able to cover the open holes of the clarinet with
> their bare fingers?
These are and were made for anyone who has significant trouble in
covering the holes. It's not standard as you lose some very useful
alternate fingerings in the altissimo and you lose the ability to
use "half hole" fingerings in the altissimo (this often helps pitch and
stability).
>
> 4) Does anyone today make clarinets with covered holes like a
> saxophone....?
Yes Leblanc makes a version of their student Vito model that has
plateau keys (the name for this style of keywork). The Woodwind &
Brasswind lists it in their catalog so you should be able to order it
from them. I have also seen a higher grade instrument in Leblanc's
listings (check www.gleblanc.com) but haven't seen it listed in the
music dealer's catalogs. However, it can probably be ordered through
one of the authorized dealers.
TJ
Dee Hays
Right now it isn't really possible to compare plastic instruments to
wooden ones. With the exception of the Buffet Greenline series, all
the plastic instruments are student grade. Almost all wooden
instruments are intermediate or professional grade. Thus the
comparisons are not valid since the differences (student grade versus
pro for example) in instruments will bias the comparison.
To attribute the difference to material, it would be necessary to have
and compare two instruments that are identical in every detail except
for the material. This is not possible at this time except to compare
the Buffet Greenline to the standard Buffet and you must be sure to
match the models (i.e. compare an R-13 to an R-13 not to a Festival for
example). Even then ordinary variances from horn to horn can still
bias the results (one can sound great yet another of the same model
sound poor).
Doug.
<An...@ntlworld.com> writes
>A British clarinettist and bandleader of the 1950s, Sid Phillips,
>played a covered hole clarinet, and they were available in the '50s,
>but I have never seen one on sale since.
>On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:48:24 GMT, TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca>
>wrote:
>
when he came with his jazz outfit playing arranged jazz which Syd wrote
and arranged. He was a wonderful player with the utmost facility, his
perfect phrasing was always faithful to the chord structure and I have
played many of his arrangements.
He was in R.A.F Intelligence during the war and when Geraldine
Fitzgerald left the Colin Hulme Band at Leeds , later played the
Hammersmith Palais in London (Lead alto was my brother , - he was
called Syd too,) She joined Syd Philips.
His clart was a Simple System with covered holes. Perhaps I should
have said Albert System. The one you played the cross-fingered middle
register fingering for F# with the right hand fingers..
He was a Master arranger in the early days and did those marvellous
arrangements for big Band when he played baritone for Geraldo.
I met Geraldo a few times. At one performance on our stage I
congratulated him upon the suave playing of his band,. He replied,
"Thank you, - you know, - it is getting harder and harder to play the Halls
nowadays!".
Very soon Bill Haley came along.
Goodbye suavity.
Doug
>>Thank you all for your comments....that was very interesting.....but
>>while you are all here I wonder if you could indulge me by responding to
>>the following?
>>
>>just getting back to things and I have the following questions:
>>
>>
>>on one of his CD's I see that Chuck uses a barrel that appears to have a
>>corrugated surface.......what is that all about?
>>
>>for marching band players in the winter so that they could wear gloves
>>while playing or was it for sax doublers who didn't have the required
>>coordination to be able to cover the open holes of the clarinet with
>>their bare fingers?
>>
>>saxophone....?
>>
>
--Doug.
Stephen Howard
wrote:
>In article <9263qskdr0eg4s4mk...@4ax.com>, Gardner
><An...@ntlworld.com> writes
>>A British clarinettist and bandleader of the 1950s, Sid Phillips,
>>played a covered hole clarinet, and they were available in the '50s,
>>but I have never seen one on sale since.
>>On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:48:24 GMT, TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>I confirm that, I met Syd a few times, I was in the local House-band
>when he came with his jazz outfit playing arranged jazz which Syd wrote
>and arranged.
I can confirm it too, in fact I can tell you that Sid's Plateau
clarinet is alive and well and being played by a gentleman in
Hampshire who happens to be a client of mine.
Sid appears to have been a man who knew what he wanted - and what he
didn't need, and this particular clarinet has had the upper trill keys
removed and the tone holes filled in. They 'got in the way'
apparently!
The clarinet, though old and well worn, is still in regular use today
- and depite this client having a private collection of more than 60
clarinents ( mostly Oehlers, Alberts etc ) he considers Sid's clarinet
to be the best sounding of the lot.
I daren't argue with him - he's a Yorkshireman! ( Actually, he's right
- he knows it, he knows I know it, and he knows I'll never admit it! )
Regards,
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
Doug.
<sees...@email.uk> writes
>On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:44:04 +0100, "Doug." <D...@yarlside.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <9263qskdr0eg4s4mk...@4ax.com>, Gardner
>><An...@ntlworld.com> writes
>>>A British clarinettist and bandleader of the 1950s, Sid Phillips,
>>>played a covered hole clarinet, and they were available in the '50s,
>>>but I have never seen one on sale since.
>
>>>On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:48:24 GMT, TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>I confirm that, I met Syd a few times, I was in the local House-band
>>when he came with his jazz outfit playing arranged jazz which Syd wrote
>>and arranged.
>
>I can confirm it too, in fact I can tell you that Sid's Plateau
>clarinet is alive and well and being played by a gentleman in
>Hampshire who happens to be a client of mine.
Thanks a lot!. - Oh! That's great news. I always admired Sid's solos.
They always sounded right and his phrasing was impeccable. I play his
tapes often. When I play Sid's tapes, I think sometimes I detect the style
of Pete Fountain, not comparing just confirming their mastery of the
instrument and their knowledge and instinctive understanding of chord
structures.
Our "stage" platform was only a foot high and stuck out into the
ballroom. I used to stand at the end front corner and when Sid's band
was playing a speciality he would stand on that corner and with a wink,
put his clarinet close to me and play his splendid responses right into my
delighted left lug-hole!. Every note perfect!. I liked the guy very much.
Please send me an Email and pass on any interesting titbits. How did he
pass-on for instance, where does he lie. If ever I am in the area I will
take a tribute of flowers in thanks for his playing , and the small hints and
tips he passed on to me each time I met him. He never turned away
anyone seeking advice.
I also took off the trill keys on one clarinet I had, since I had no need for
them.
Regards!
Doug.
>Sid appears to have been a man who knew what he wanted - and what he
>didn't need, and this particular clarinet has had the upper trill keys
>removed and the tone holes filled in. They 'got in the way'
>apparently!
>
>The clarinet, though old and well worn, is still in regular use today
>- and depite this client having a private collection of more than 60
>clarinents ( mostly Oehlers, Alberts etc ) he considers Sid's clarinet
>to be the best sounding of the lot.
>
>I daren't argue with him - he's a Yorkshireman! ( Actually, he's right
>- he knows it, he knows I know it, and he knows I'll never admit it! )
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
>Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
--Doug.
Paul Lindemeyer
Let's not forget Sid's wonderful work for Ambrose..."Night
Ride"..."Embassy Stomp"..."Hors d'oeuvres" (or as I always call 'em,
"horse doovers")...and the sublimely idiosyncratic "Cotton Picker's Congregation"!
"Doug." wrote:
>
> I confirm that, I met Syd a few times, I was in the local House-band
> when he came with his jazz outfit playing arranged jazz which Syd wrote
> and arranged. He was a wonderful player with the utmost facility, his
> perfect phrasing was always faithful to the chord structure and I have
> played many of his arrangements.
> He was in R.A.F Intelligence during the war and when Geraldine
> Fitzgerald left the Colin Hulme Band at Leeds , later played the
> Hammersmith Palais in London (Lead alto was my brother , - he was
> called Syd too,) She joined Syd Philips.
> His clart was a Simple System with covered holes. Perhaps I should
> have said Albert System. The one you played the cross-fingered middle
> register fingering for F# with the right hand fingers..
> He was a Master arranger in the early days and did those marvellous
> arrangements for big Band when he played baritone for Geraldo.
> I met Geraldo a few times. At one performance on our stage I
> congratulated him upon the suave playing of his band,. He replied,
> "Thank you, - you know, - it is getting harder and harder to play the Halls
> nowadays!".
> Very soon Bill Haley came along.
> Goodbye suavity.
> --Doug.
--
LINDEMEYER PRODUCTIONS INC.
Orchestras Ensembles Graphic Design
C.G. CONN & BUESCHER Saxophones
Paul Lindemeyer <pau...@cyburban.com>
TJ
Are there any CD's out there that are available to buy which include or
feature his playing ?
Speaking of UK clarinetists the only one I know of and admire a lot is
Dave Shephard (sp?) are there others who are recorded on CD's and widely
distributed (means available over here) like Shephard?
Thanks and cheers
TJ
P.S. to Stephen Howard....Where's your shop? What city ? I'm going to be
in Britain for part of Sept and Oct.....
Regards,
>
> Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
> Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}bigfoot{dot}com
--
Stephen Howard
wrote:
>
>P.S. to Stephen Howard....Where's your shop? What city ? I'm going to be
>in Britain for part of Sept and Oct.....
>
I'm in Hampshire, southern England. There' s nothing quite so grand as
a city round here, unless you count Winchester which is some 20 miles
to the west.
The workshop itself is quite literally in the middle of nowhere - and
directions are needed in order to find it.
As visitors will attest, when I say turn left after the friendly cow,
and right after the two chickens a goat - I'm not kidding!
Gardner
'Clarinet Cadenza'
Let's also remember that other fine British bandleader and
clarinettist (is he still alive?) Carl Barriteau.
On 22 Aug 2000 09:04:02 -0500, Paul Lindemeyer <pau...@cyburban.com>
wrote:
Doug.
Gardner <An...@ntlworld.com> writes
>The tunes I remember Sid Phillips for are 'Hors D'oeuvre' and
>'Clarinet Cadenza'
>
>Let's also remember that other fine British bandleader and
>clarinettist (is he still alive?) Carl Barriteau.
>On 22 Aug 2000 09:04:02 -0500, Paul Lindemeyer
<pau...@cyburban.com>
I used to own a very good hardback book dealing with the clarinet, by
Carl Barriteau . It got itself lost during various house moves.
Doug.
--Doug.
Doug.
<pau...@cyburban.com> writes
>Doug.,
>Let's not forget Sid's wonderful work for Ambrose..."Night
>Ride"..."Embassy Stomp"..."Hors d'oeuvres" (or as I always call 'em,
>"horse doovers")...and the sublimely idiosyncratic "Cotton Picker's
>Congregation"!
>
that piece on an old 78disc. I think the band was Vic Lewis. (Maybe it
was Geraldo).
A long time ago I came home from work and my son had been playing
records on my radiogram.
He was about 12 years old and said to me, "Hey Dad!, listen to this
band!". He had chosen Cotton-Pickers Congregation, and all through it
kept pointing out various complicated phrases.
I thought, "Out of the mouths and ears of babes and sucklings!".
I've got a tape in my player this very minute. Its heading is, "All That
Jazz".
Side 1. Clarinet Marmalade.; Dardenella, You gotta see Mama.
When my sugar walks down the Street.
Side 2. Sheik of Araby. Muskrat ramble (should it be Muscat
Ramble?). Woodchoppers ball. Stars fell on Alabama. Anything goes.
Frankie and Johnny. Pasadena.
I have another somewhere, Sid's band is on one side, His son with his
rock band is on the other side, the son playing drums.
Doug.
TJ
in Southampton but I'm afraid that at that part of our trip we won't
have a lot of time for exploring unfortunately.....and I say unfortunate
because most of the fun in traveling in someone else's home country is
to be experienced when trying to get somewhere like the kind of place
where you're shop is situated...usually generates all kinds of good
stories....< G >.....I thought maybe you operated out of London and that
would have been good because we are there for about 8 or 9 days.....
Thanks anyway...........catch you next time.
cheers
TJ
Tim Roberts
>
>Speaking of UK clarinetists the only one I know of and admire a lot is
>Dave Shephard (sp?) are there others who are recorded on CD's and widely
>distributed (means available over here) like Shephard?
I don't know whether you are specifically talking about jazz or classical
clarinetists here, but in my opinion, Thea King has a tone to die for. She
is a classical player from the UK, and her recordings are widely available.
--
- Tim Roberts, ti...@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
TJ
interested in British classical soloists and I will check out Thea King.
Thank you
TJ
--
Doug.
Roberts <ti...@probo.com> writes
>TJ <tjbe...@nospamsympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Speaking of UK clarinetists the only one I know of and admire a lot is
>>Dave Shephard (sp?) are there others who are recorded on CD's and widely
>>distributed (means available over here) like Shephard?
>
>I don't know whether you are specifically talking about jazz or classical
>clarinetists here, but in my opinion, Thea King has a tone to die for. She
>is a classical player from the UK, and her recordings are widely available.
>--
>- Tim Roberts, ti...@probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
On British T.V on a programme called "Gardeners' World" with real
gardening men in it, - (before the Programmes were taken over by
flibberty -gibbet women whose main effort was to show-off their
razorstrap charms), - the narrative was accompanied by a young lady
with classical style and pure tone playing the most beautiful clarinet, and
producing the most beautiful sounds.
I think her name was Emma. Who was It?
If I had a tone like that I would leave home.
--Doug.
John H. Morrison
> razorstrap charms), - the narrative was accompanied by a young lady
> with classical style and pure tone playing the most beautiful clarinet, and
> producing the most beautiful sounds.
> I think her name was Emma. Who was It?
> If I had a tone like that I would leave home.
Emma Thompson, perhaps. I have a CD of her performing concertos by
Weber, Spohr, and ???. I can't decide whether she outperformed David
Shifrin on Weber's 2nd.
-- John
Doug.
Morrison <jo...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes
Thank you, John!. I have difficulty remembering names, so I have
written it down. I must get that C.D next time in Town.
I'll savour her playing in the quiet of my den here.
Best wishes, to you and yours!.
Doug.
--Doug.
Stephen Howard
wrote:
>In article <39a2181d...@news.clara.net>, Stephen Howard
><sees...@email.uk> writes
>>
>>I can confirm it too, in fact I can tell you that Sid's Plateau
>>clarinet is alive and well and being played by a gentleman in
>>Hampshire who happens to be a client of mine.
>
>Thanks a lot!. - Oh! That's great news. I always admired Sid's solos.
>They always sounded right and his phrasing was impeccable. I play his
>tapes often. When I play Sid's tapes, I think sometimes I detect the style
>of Pete Fountain, not comparing just confirming their mastery of the
>instrument and their knowledge and instinctive understanding of chord
>structures.
>
>Our "stage" platform was only a foot high and stuck out into the
>ballroom. I used to stand at the end front corner and when Sid's band
>was playing a speciality he would stand on that corner and with a wink,
>put his clarinet close to me and play his splendid responses right into my
>delighted left lug-hole!. Every note perfect!. I liked the guy very much.
>Please send me an Email and pass on any interesting titbits. How did he
>pass-on for instance, where does he lie. If ever I am in the area I will
>take a tribute of flowers in thanks for his playing , and the small hints and
>tips he passed on to me each time I met him. He never turned away
>anyone seeking advice.
<snip>
Further to the Sid Phillips clarinet, I spoke to my client the other
day and asked him how he came by Sid's clarinet.
It turns out that my client used to have a flat above Ralph Phillips -
Sid's younger brother and manager, circa 1955,
He got got know Ralph partly through helping him to fix up Sid's old
Alvis ( a rather splendid old car, which Sid never liked apparently.
He was later seen driving a MK 1 Ford Zephyr. ) and this led to Ralph
booking him to play at his daughter's engagement party.
Many prominent musicians turned up at the party - including Sid, Lew
Stone, Harry Roy, Ambrose etc..and Sid was impressed enough with the
band that he subsequently passed on all the ( dodgy! ) gigs that he
didn't want to do.
This began a friendship which led to my client being offered two of
Sid's clarinets when Sid decided to upgrade.
Sid passed away in his 70's. He had attended a cricket match, where he
had bowled a few overs and hit a few runs, and retiring to his bed
that night feeling very tired he passed away peacefully in his sleep.
My client doesn't know where Sid's final resting place is - but I feel
sure that someone out there will. Given that Sid had, I think, at
least two brothers it's more than likely that there are living
relatives.