Bringer of War
Heather Russell
night.
I didn't even know this place existed, until my guitarist called me up
and
said they were having this big grand opening at 7.
In general, MARS is like the Best Buy of the music store business.
It's big, has lots of stuff, prices are pretty good (from what I could
tell),
and will probably give the smaller, locally owned places a run for
their money.
However, the crowds were unreal - I would
say wait it out and go back next week when it's less crowded.
There aren't really that many "grand opening" discounts or
anything.
I got there a little after 7 and the entire parking lot was full and
there were
people standing in this huge line *just to get in*. I finally got a
parking
spot, then walked over and joined the line. People-watching for days.
The line slowly snaked toward an unventilated tent labeled "free stuff",
(I love free stuff)
which after a half hour of waiting turned out to be nothing but free
t-shirts and a raffle. They
were selling drumsticks and strings at a buy 1 get 9 free, but that
first
one was kinda pricey so it didn't seem like that much of a bargain to
me.
Then it took another 15 minutes in line to reach the door.
I passed the time by chatting with a guy in line who is in a metal
band that plays at the Caboose. That alone was worth the
price of admission.
It was crowded inside and *every single instrument in the entire place
was being played at full volume* - it was like an orchestra of the
damned, or the best John Cage piece you've ever heard.
Someone should have audiotaped it. amazing.
It was so loud I actually couldn't hear any of the pianos I was trying
out (even with headphones on). The salespeople were all wearing
earplugs.
They people in the keyboard section and the "band instrument"
section were pretty knowledgeable and helpful to me.
Rick (my guitar player) says that the guitar selection was good, but
that the salespeople were pulling this stunt where they would
walk by while people were playing, stop, smile, start bobbing their
head to the music, and say 'hey, that sounds great!' Which was funny
because Rick was playing some technical Eric Johnson tempo-changing
thing
and the salesguy couldn't get his head to bob just right, so he
gave up and just walked away.
The best thing about this place for me is that..
********************************************************************
************** THEY SELL OBOE REEDS! ********************
********************************************************************
5 different brand names, one very top of the line
brand that I used to use in college.
They also have "band instruments" (trombones, flutes, etc.)
and sheet music and stuff.
They seemed to have some kind of stage area too - I don't
know if that was just for the grand opening or if they're going
to have bands.
Anyhoo, that was my night in Raleigh. (I need a life)
- heather
http://www.freecloud.com/heather
Spencer E. Hochstetler
> So I went to the grand opening of MARS music store in Raleigh last
> night.
MARS experience snipped...
from what i understand, (read: what i heard from the guitar player
in my band who heard from a local music store employee) mars is a
store that is of the floating type: they come in with ridiculously
low prices on everything for about 6 months, sell scads of
merchandise, drive the smaller guys out of business, or at least
giving them some seriously lean months, and then leave to the next
semi-urban center to make their windfall of cash once the sales
have tapered down from booming to normal. has any one else heard
this type of hearsay? can it be substantiated? i know capitalism
is legal, but it sure would suck to *have* to drive to cary from
carrboro (is that right? i've snipped the previous post already)
to pick up some sticks in an emergency... its not that i'm the
hugest music loft fan, but they have bailed me out in the past
with last minute supplies.
spencer
Tori Spelling's Nose
>It was crowded inside and *every single instrument in the entire place
>was being played at full volume* - it was like an orchestra of the
>damned, or the best John Cage piece you've ever heard.
>Someone should have audiotaped it. amazing.
Kinda like Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center in Wheaton, MD on any
given Saturday. Always fun and I had an idea to tape that as well but I
always chickened out.
Is this MARS place a chain? Not that I have ever bought much gear at the
Loft, but at least it's locally owned. I'd hate to see it and other
places like Brian's, Fat, Harry's and the Connection take a big hit with
MARS & Music-Go-Round horning in on the business. Give me a junky, musty
old music store owned by some 50 yr old metal-head in a satin jacket any
day. At least I have a hope of finding another EB2 for $450!
Mike
Erin or William Bonin
> Heather Russell (her...@wnt.sas.com) wrote:
> > So I went to the grand opening of MARS music store in Raleigh last
> > night.
> MARS experience snipped...
>
Evil MARS plan snipped...
I think for a plan like the one you mentioned to be effective, the store
stays in town after having driven everyone else out of business and then
raises their prices. ...of course, it could all be stolen merchandise
which would require MARS to always be on the run...
TLT75
have the prerequisite website. Actually, the site did have this cool section
where you can post questions to Eddie Kramer (engineering GOD!) about
recording, producing, etc. Unfortunately, most of the posts seemed to be along
the lines of "Dude, you worked with KISS!!!! Cool!"
-Thad why more KISS than Jimi Thompson
Heather Russell
I have the dubious pleasure of working in Cary, so it was only
a few minutes drive to Raleigh/MARS after work, one of the
reasons I decided to check it out.
The other reason being I thought there would be lowered prices, sales
and giveaways in honor of their opening.
(I would really like to get a portable 88-key weighted action
board/controller
one of these days, as well as a monitor.)
But while the prices were reasonable (again this is just
pianos) they weren't so low that I was convinced to buy anything
on the spot.
I don't think you have to worry too much about Music Loft - as it
turns out, their future new location is right across the street and
looks
fairly large as well. If anything will help drive down prices, that
will...
- heather
> -----Original Message-----
> From: seho...@email.unc.edu [SMTP:seho...@email.unc.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 4:16 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: Bringer of War
>
> Heather Russell (her...@wnt.sas.com) wrote:
> > So I went to the grand opening of MARS music store in Raleigh last
> > night.
>
> MARS experience snipped...
>
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
became partners with Jay Miller in the Music Loft of Raleigh and The Music
Connection because I learned that MARS was coming to Raleigh. I represent
consumers for a living in a law firm in Raleigh. All that I had seen about
MARS in other cities I personally didn't like. Their prices are higher on
many items than a number of independent music stores. They offer blow outs
on items usually for beginners or with guitar players for first time buyers.
These are usually discontinued items like Lake Placid Blue American Standard
Strats by Fender. However their overall prices are higher than we sell
guitars for every day at Music Loft -- particularly higher end electric
guitars. MARS has gone to a number of cities and their business plan seems
strange to me. They spend many hundreds of thousands of dollars on
advertising. They sell some items at their dealer cost. So they are many
hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole from the outset. They have
enormously large stores with enormously large overhead. Interestingly, MARS
does not own its buildings as far as I know. MARS also has borrowed
substantial sums for the stores it is opening across the Country. From what
I have seen in other cities, MARS does tend to cause the smaller and weaker
dealers have a difficult time staying in business. They also seem to me to
be focusing their business efforts on the less experienced and less
well-informed buyer -- particularly parents with teenagers. MARS is not
publically traded at this point. The only way this business plan makes sense
to me would be if MARS plans to go public in a few years and to sell their
stock to small investors on the Stock Market. I personally can't figure out
how a compnay can make money by borrowing huge sums and then spending the
money on advertising and having enormous overhead -- that is except by going
public. A similar plan was used by the present owner of MARS, when he took
Office Depot public. Thanks, Doug
In article <6oln22$74s$1...@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu>,
seho...@email.unc.edu (Spencer E. Hochstetler) wrote:
> Heather Russell (her...@wnt.sas.com) wrote:
> > So I went to the grand opening of MARS music store in Raleigh last
> > night.
>
> MARS experience snipped...
>
> from what i understand, (read: what i heard from the guitar player
> in my band who heard from a local music store employee) mars is a
> store that is of the floating type: they come in with ridiculously
> low prices on everything for about 6 months, sell scads of
> merchandise, drive the smaller guys out of business, or at least
> giving them some seriously lean months, and then leave to the next
> semi-urban center to make their windfall of cash once the sales
> have tapered down from booming to normal. has any one else heard
> this type of hearsay? can it be substantiated? i know capitalism
> is legal, but it sure would suck to *have* to drive to cary from
> carrboro (is that right? i've snipped the previous post already)
> to pick up some sticks in an emergency... its not that i'm the
> hugest music loft fan, but they have bailed me out in the past
> with last minute supplies.
>
> spencer
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
James Hepler
of one still on?
Late as usual...
James Hepler
> The prices didn't seem ridiculously low to me, unfortunately.
>
> I have the dubious pleasure of working in Cary, so it was only
> a few minutes drive to Raleigh/MARS after work, one of the
> reasons I decided to check it out.
>
> The other reason being I thought there would be lowered prices, sales
> and giveaways in honor of their opening.
> (I would really like to get a portable 88-key weighted action
> board/controller
> one of these days, as well as a monitor.)
>
> But while the prices were reasonable (again this is just
> pianos) they weren't so low that I was convinced to buy anything
> on the spot.
>
> I don't think you have to worry too much about Music Loft - as it
> turns out, their future new location is right across the street and
> looks
> fairly large as well. If anything will help drive down prices, that
> will...
>
> - heather
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: seho...@email.unc.edu [SMTP:seho...@email.unc.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 4:16 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > Subject: Re: Bringer of War
> >
Sir Clive
hot. I was lonely.
Is there a scene here? I can't seem to hook up. Do you play?
Is there something I can do? All I run into are college kids. There's
nothing wrong with that except rehearsing in a frat house seems kinda
creepy.
Do you play?
Gilbert Neal
grady
I only buy studio accessory-type stuff there--cables and blank DATs if
I'm desperate, basically--and I go in there infrequently enough that I
can't say I noticed any change of ownership.
I've shopped both the Carrboro and the Durham store (is that part of the
"indoor storm" chain?) within the past month, and it still seemed to be
the general music-store status quo, where it's touch-and-go finding
someone to help you. Sometimes they jump right up, and sometimes they're
nowhere to be found.
Last time I priced blank DATs they were so absurdly expensive I didn't
buy any. Last time I was looking for decent-quality balanced patch
cables with 1/4" TLR plugs, they didn't have any.
I recently bought, in an emergency, an 8-space SKB rack case at the
Durham store, and with the "super secret sale" discount (it was during
their super secret sunday sale last month), it only cost slightly more
than it would have cost via mail-order. But I don't guess they have that
super-secret-sale all that often.
I dunno. I haven't experienced anywhere near the level of good service
that I always get at Associated Sound in Raleigh, so for studio/live PA
audio type stuff, the only reason I'd go to Music Loft instead of ASP is
if it were some kind of horrible emergency. The folks at ASP are much
quicker to say hello, ask me what I need, and to explain stuff. And
their prices on the stuff I buy are better.
If I were a guitarist, I'm sure my experience would be different. Not
being a musician, I slip through the cracks in normal music stores,
usually. Being a non-musician, I give 'em a borderline B-/C+.
Max at the Music Connection in Raleigh is a super-nice guy, and I have
to assume he'd be just as nice at work as he is away from work.
ross
Tori Spelling's Nose
>Actually, the site did have this cool section
>where you can post questions to Eddie Kramer (engineering GOD!)
Dear Eddie,
Why are you such a flaming asshole? I've run across you a couple times
and you are, quite frankly, a horse's ass. But dude, you worked with
KISS!
Mike
noa...@my-dejanews.com
and to the guys at both stores (Carrboro and Music Loft of Raleigh). It helps
us enormously to get this kind of feedback. There is no reason why going to a
music store should be an unpleasant experience. I'll look forward to seeing
other posts. Thanks, Doug
In article <35AFCA67...@sprynet.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
TLT75
time. To be honest, I think that someone's personality shouldn't come into
account here; if they guy does incredible work and acts like an ass, so be it.
And for the record, I haven't ever listened to a KISS record. Can't really see
what I'm missing there....
-Thad studio refugee Thompson
PS: What are the average price of Shure SM57s around here? Anyone?
Lou...@mindspring.com
We've had one of these "mega-stores" down here in Charlotte for less
than a year. So far, we've had one indie music store close, that I
know of and have heard of a few others that are in trouble. I must
admit I nearly messed up and bought something from them but got home
with my purchase and started having buyers remorse and took the wicked
thing back. I got to thinking about the effects Wal-Mart has had on
the mom and pop specialty stores and decided it is not in the interest
of freedom of choice to spend my money there. I may have to go to 2
or 3 stores to get what I need but I can be assured of getting good
help. In a year or two I may not have that choice.
NO WAL-MART
NO MARS
Mark Lynch
"I'm not a communist necessarily, but I've been in the red most all of my life"
- Woody Guthrie
Visit Lou Ford's home on the web at:
http://louford.home.mindspring.com
Direct replies to:
Lou...@mindspring.com
Russ Barnes
TLT75 wrote:
> And for the record, I haven't ever listened to a KISS record. Can't really see
> what I'm missing there....
My enitire adolescence, for one....
--
Russ Barnes
ICQ#15411488
http://www.mindspring.com/~rrbarnes
Jessica L. Stern
Yes. Atlanta is the headquarters, I think.
-Jessica
Thomas Szypulski
> I may have to go to 2
>or 3 stores to get what I need but I can be assured of getting good
>help. In a year or two I may not have that choice.
>NO WAL-MART
>NO MARS
Ross's assessment of the "help" at the Loft is dead-on. I've been
there many times and it always seemed the same. Seems they're very
busy looking cool. No perceptible bargains, either.
Fat Sound was no better the other day when I went in to buy a few
things. The counter help couldn't ask the sixteen-year-old budding
guitar god who was ripping out my eardrums on a Marshall stack at the
store's opposite end to turn down so he could find out what I wanted
to purchase. So instead I had to scream loud enough to be misheard
over Jimi Jr. When I left, my throat hurt as much as my ears.
So it ain't just Mars that's loud. Speaking of Mars, the one time
I've visited, a sales person asked to help me within seconds of my
entry. He grabbed my stuff from the stockroom and even carried the
packages out to my truck for me. I'll see if Mars sustains that
level of service on my next visits.
I also found the help at Music Go Round very knowledgeable and
attentive.
-
"I'm gonna murmur till my hunger fills you up
I'm gonna shout until your deafness is a roar
I'm gonna whisper in your ear each night you dream
Whisper to a scream"
-
Ski
<http://www.pipeline.com/~ski_nc/kickbaby/>
Chris Rossi
telling me how much he loved Mars Music but didn't really give much
info beyond that. I guess I'll get to find out without driving back
to Atlanta.
I've never shopped at Music Connection. Where are they?
I've shopped for both studio type stuff and guitar stuff, although
I've been playing the same guitar through the same amp for the last 6
or 7 years now, so I obviously haven't been doing much guitar
shopping. In general, though, I dislike going into any music store
because nobody ever wants to help you, and generally no one really
seems to know what they are talking about. But that's an
overgeneralization.
I will back up Ross's recommendation of Associated Sound. Unlike
instrument shops, they will in fact talk to you knowledgably about the
equipment, will try to sell you what they think is right for you as
opposed to a more expensive item. They have the best rates on
microphone rentals in town. I will probably buy 2 or 3 mics from them
in a month or two when I've saved up enough cash. I will also retract
an earlier recommendation of my own for Bass Music. I went back there
a couple of weeks ago to compare their mic selection to Associated
Sound and found someone who didn't seem particularly interested in
talking to me other than to point at a couple of the most expesive
mics in the store (I told him my budget) and saying "these sound
nice," and who also wouldn't allow me to try out any of the
microphones in my own recording environment, by renting or otherwise.
(For recording shops, this is standard practice, and is the only way
to know if a mic is going to sound good for you or not.) I was told
that they sometimes allow their "friends" to borrow mics, but that
they don't normally rent. This suggests to me that they aren't
particularly interested in doing business with the general public.
Not that there's anything wrong with choosing to do business that way,
but those who are outside the circle should keep in mind that they are
probably just as well off not making the trip. Not being a member of
Raleigh Hair Metal Club, I would probably have a hard time breaking
into this elite circle. Associated Sound will apply one day's rental
toward your purchase of a mic, so in effect if you buy it then you got
to try it out for free, but they still get to protect themselves by
making you go through the process of putting down a deposit and
actually renting the mics. And if you don't buy it, you've spent $15
tops. I call that a good deal.
As far as Music Loft is concerned they are no better or no worse than
any other comparable stores I've ever visited.
I've recently been looking around at amps. So I went to the Music
Loft in Carrboro. They had an old Fender Deluxe amp with reverb and
vibrato. I asked the price and asked if I could try it out, and they
said sure. It sounded really, really good, except that there was a
horrible amount of crackling, poppy type noise coming through as well,
almost as loud as the guitar itself. Realizing that this was an old
amp and probably needed a little work, I wasn't really that put off.
I mean, you have to expect as much. I know that in general the
capacitors have to be replaced in older amps since they use a type of
capacitor that has a gel as a dielectric which drys out--you can
expect an amp that was made in the 70's to be in bad need of this
fairly simple repair. But I wasn't sure if this was a symptom of that
problem, in fact it didn't really seem like it was. (I belive the
aging capacitors simply makes the tone sound weak, reduces gain, but
shouldn't cause a lot of noise.) I decided to ask one of the guys
behind the counter whether he thought this might be the problem or
what else it might be (thinking, "hey, these are the experts, right?")
and whether it was a simple repair or fairly involved. In resonse,
they guy first pretended (poorly) that there was no problem, and then
said, "Oh, I think it's just the cable. It would sound better with a
different cable." He didn't offer me another cable with which to test
his hypothesis. Which didn't matter much to me, since a problem with
the cable would either produce a hum (this was a crackle) or crackling
that occurred when the cable was jostled (this crackle was independent
of any movement of the cable). Of course, I would more than
understand if the sales guy didn't necessarily know how to diagnose
the problem with the amp. I'm no expert and don't expect others to
be. I could probably believe that he really thought it was the cable,
and hey, maybe it even really was, but for a brief moment I got this
uneasy feeling, conveyed to me more by body language and inflection
than anything he actually said, that he was trying to pull something
over on me. As soon as my bullshit detector went off (could have been
a false alarm?) I left the store without seriosly weighing the pros
and cons of buying this particular amp. This was not without some
misgiving, because the guitar tone itself was really, really nice.
A little while later I went to Music Loft in Raleigh to check out
their amp selection. They had a reissue of the same amp so I decided
to check it out. I went to the front and asked for a price and a
little info, and the guy quoted the price. Uh ok, so can I try it
out? "Yeah, here." He hands me a cable and waves in the general
direction of the big wall of guitars. I look for the same model I use
at home, find it, but it is on the top row and locked in and would
require asking again for help. So I settle for a Guild copy. I then
spend about ten minutes or so puzzling over the amp controls. (It
turns out that the foot pedal wasn't quite plugged all the way in.)
The amp itself was pretty weak. (Or maybe it was the weak guitar I
was trying out with.) After convincing myself that this amp pretty
much sucks, I put the guitar back and am walking back towards the
counter with the cord when a salesman says, "I'll take that for you,"
grabs it and is gone. Not having recieved any indication that anyone
in this store is particularly interested in selling me anything I
leave.
Now, they weren't that busy, in fact there a few guys just kind of
standing around. And maybe they just figured that if I like the amp,
I'll buy it, and if I don't I won't. Even if I had recieved attention
from anyone, I still wouldn't have bought that amp. But maybe
somebody would have said, "Well this amp is pretty weak, but I bet
you'd like this amp over here." And maybe I would have.
After having tried out a few more amps at a few other places, I
decided that the amp I already have is actually pretty nice sounding,
and if I run across something really special I might consider it, but
for now I might just buy a decent vibrato pedal and be done with it.
So I was cruising through Music Loft in Durham when I notice they have
a huge display of effects pedals set up in a big display all patched
into one another so that you can try any of them out. (I wonder what
patching that signal through about fifty different pedals does.) This
looks like a pretty good deal so I walk over to the display, sit down
and put on the headphones. I notice a salesman is watching me do
this. This same salesman watches me pick up the guitar that's sitting
with the display, strum a few chords, and look at it puzzledly until I
realize it's a midi guitar and is for checking out some guitar synth
that's also in the display. This same salesman watches me put down
the guitar, look around confusedly for a place to plug in a real
guitar, shrug my shoulders, take off the headphones, walk out of the
store. Now I share some responsibility for this, since I never
actually asked for help. But I thought it strange that they would
allow me to be so obviously perplexed, without coming over and
showing me how to operate the display.
At any rate, this isn't meant to bash the Music Loft. My problems are
very much attributable to my own lack of assertiveness, and a more
general distaste for music stores and just shopping. And also
everyone should bear in mind that the experience in Carrboro was
really very subjective and not necessarily indicative of anyone really
trying to pull a fast one. (Although I can tell you a horror story
about a place in Atlanta for which there was no doubt.) But since we
were on the subject, I figured I'd outline some of my recent
experiences and explain why none of them resulted in sales, even
though the potential for a sale was there.
Good luck,
chris rossi
Tori Spelling's Nose
>
> Actually, I was thinking of his work w/ Hendrix more; incredible sound for the
> time. To be honest, I think that someone's personality shouldn't come into
> account here; if they guy does incredible work and acts like an ass, so be it.
> what I'm missing there....
When making a record an engineer or producer's personality and attitude
have "everything" to do with it. Ya can't relax and make a good record
with a butthead at the board. I do agree with your assessment about the
Hendrix stuff, however. Like Tom Werman, Jack Douglas, Ron Nevison, Roy
Thomas Baker, Jimmy Miller & others of that era, he was one of an elite
group of guys who could get those heavy rock sounds down onto tape. He
doesn't work now because so many others can achieve what he can without
the attitude. Believe me, finding an engineer around here in the '70's
who didn;t make your stuff sound like muzak was tough goings. Thank God
for Mitch Easter & Don Dixon.
BTW, the Kiss records he did sounded like shit. It was a big reason he's
not engineering I think. The press ripped those Kiss records apart for
their dodgy quality (in terms of recording as well as musical content -
of course, they shat them out every five months or so - 8 records from
1973 to 1977). Destroyer sounds good but I think Ezrin had someone else
engineer it. I don't own it any more so I can't look it up.
> PS: What are the average price of Shure SM57s around here? Anyone?
$95-$105
Mike
Russ Barnes
Tori Spelling's Nose wrote:
>
>
>
>
> BTW, the Kiss records he did sounded like shit. It was a big reason he's
> not engineering I think. The press ripped those Kiss records apart for
> their dodgy quality (in terms of recording as well as musical content -
> of course, they shat them out every five months or so - 8 records from
> 1973 to 1977). Destroyer sounds good but I think Ezrin had someone else
> engineer it. I don't own it any more so I can't look it up.
Jay Messina and Corky Stasiak.
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
Thanks for posting this message. It is helping me enormously to be getting
input from consumers about The Music Lofts. It is really disappointing to me
that both Music Lofts failed to make you feel particularly welcome in the
store. To some degree in Raleigh we have tried to avoid any semblance of
"high pressure" sales; but in your case, clearly you needed much more
assistance than you received. I have no explanation why you weren't given
better help with the Fender Deluxe. I will check into that today. I've
emailed this to the stores as well. This type of thoughtful criticism will
make us a better store and a store more receptive to customers. Thanks,
Doug
In article <35b2c7c4...@news.mindspring.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Bob La Force
from my work, and they are always helpful when I go in there. The owner
was there one day and introduced himself. Whenever I go in there, they
always ask me within 30 seconds of entering if I need any help with
anything.
My best experience with music stores in the area is Reel Time in
Hillsborough. The guy in there is always helpful, polite and cool. They
have a limited selection, but their prices are very reasonable. Most of
their business is service and repair..
Bob
--
********************************************************************
* Bob LaForce | *
* Webmaster | *
* Duke University Human Resources | "I'm not a webmaster in *
* http://www.hr.duke.edu | real life, but I do play *
* Visit the Odd World of Bob | one on the internet" *
* http://nuteknet.com/blaforce | *
********************************************************************
Ryan Michael Davis
: Doug wanted to know how folks feel about Music Loft.
Admittedly I haven't been there is a few months, but the last few times I
was extremely unimpressed with the level of service at the Music Loft on
New Hope Church in Raleigh. Music stores are notorious for either
ignoring you completely or jumping all over you trying to make a sale.
The Music Loft in Raleigh came off as the former. Maybe I'll give 'em
another chance...
Ryan Davis
Mr. Bass's Planetoid
http://www.tou.com/host/planetoid/
Jim Maynard
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
perspective the most single important thing that a customer is entitled to
when they enter a store that I own or co-own is to receive respect and prompt
non- pressurized help. Interestingly, on almost a daily basis Indoor Storm
gets praised on the internet for being helpful. Indoor Storm is simply the
internet division of Music Loft of Raleigh. Yet, we clearly have a long way
to go before we make Ryan and others feel welcome when they come into the
store. I've also seen the comments about the prices at Music Loft of Raleigh;
but our prices and service have won us customers from across the Country and
even Australia, Israel, England & Russia. Yet, if we aren't effectively
communicating the prices to our customers, the fact that we will will meet or
beat any advertised price within the area doesn't do the customer any good.
By being kind enough to post your impressions, I now have information to
give to the folks at our stores. We have a long way to go; but I can
absolutely guarantee our commitment is there. Thanks, Doug In article
<6ovl4q$mvs$1...@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu>, rmda...@unity.ncsu.edu (Ryan Michael
Davis) wrote:
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
"Jim Maynard" <jmay...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Aren't Music Connection and Music Loft combining forces?
>
>
Yes. Jay Miller and I (Doug Abrams) bought the Music Connection this
January. We wanted to provide an alternative to a superstore atmosphere while
providing competitive pricing and better selection. Jay Miller purchased a
site across the street from MARS -- it's on Capital Blvd on Raleigh. We are
renovating the building now. When the renovation is complete we'll combine
both stores into one. There is a small clearance center open on the land
there now. Jay met this morning with the guys at The Music Connection and
discussed in detail the posts we had received. He emphasized the need to
make people feel welcome. Thanks, Doug
TLT75
I totally agree about attitude in the studio; when tensions arise out on the
floor and in the control room, it's impossible to get any work done. I was
going on the assumption that Kramer, as a professional, would leave any sort of
attitude behind once he sat down behind the boards and got down to business.
The way your post read, it seemed as if you were attacking his general attitude
(i.e., "Eddie, you're a flaming asshole!") outside of "the biz." Sorry for the
confusion.
-Thad off to 2-Way Thompson
grady
most of my experiences with music stores in general, in all the various
states in which I've lived. Which tells me, I guess, that either (a)
certain of us just don't feel comfortable in music stores, or (b)
they've all got that similar problem, which is probably the result of
dealing with wankers all day, but if you don't wanna deal with wankers,
you probably shouldn't be in sales.
But anyway.
So reading all of this allowed me to hone in on what the problem is, in
my experience: the people I've dealt with at the Music Loft's various
locations just don't seem to give a shit whether you buy anything or
not, or whether you enjoy your time at the store, or whether you happen
to particularly enjoy this rather expensive hobby you've chosen.
Now, this isn't the worst attitude to have. Walk into the appliance
section at, say, Circuit City, and you'll be swarmed on by a load of
people who are actively un-interested in hearing what you have to say,
or in assuring that you enjoy whatever you buy, but who are nonetheless
desperately interested in sending you out of the store with *something*
stuck in the back of your car. (this isn't 100% true, but it's close
enough to count). That's a much worse experience, believe me.
The folks at Associated Sound in Raleigh, on the other hand, seem to
genuinely give a shit about whether you're enjoying your overall
experience with their area of expertise--that is, recording and/or
running live sound--whether or not you're dumping a huge pile of cash on
them. Even if you tell them upfront that you're not quite ready to buy
anything yet, unless they're horribly busy they will stand around and
talk shop with you until either you tear yourself away, or somebody else
comes in and needs to check a rental PA system back in.
I mean, I went in a couple of weeks ago to pick up a compressor for the
radio station and wound up spending like 20 minutes talking about stage
mics with the guy, pros and cons, and how incredibly unpredictable Shure
mics can be after they've been used more than, say, twice. All this
because I mentioned I was hoping to upgrade some of my mics at some
point in the next six months or so.
Now, a cynic might argue that he didn't really give a shit; he was just
being a really good salesman, and earning his living. Which, if it were
true, would be fine, because the end result was the same: I came away
having learned a few things, and with a really good feeling about the
store. But I didn't *feel* like I was being schmoozed (and I've shopped
for enough cars and car stereos to know the difference, believe me).
I dunno. In my line of work, I run into lots of folks my age who work in
similar jobs to mine (everybody I know has a computer job of some kind
these days--particularly all the ex-indie-rockers). Every few days I'll
run into one and we'll wind up standing around for like 15 minutes
talking shop in just the geekiest way imaginable. And it always seems to
me that one reason we do that is that computers are just big funny toys,
mostly, and we all think it's the biggest scam in the world that we get
paid to sit around all day playing with toys.
I get that same feeling when I go into ASP in Raleigh; there's that
sense of continued pleasure that they get to make their livings playing
with all these great fun toys.
If *I* worked in a music store, I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same way.
But for some reason, I don't always feel that vibe going into the Music
Lofts. I feel it about half the time at Harry's Guitar Shop, depending
on what time of the day it is, and how many 15-year-old kids have been
in to thrash away on the metal guitars.
At the Music Loft, it's maybe 1 in 10 times I go in there. And since I
don't wind up going in there more than 5 or 10 times a year, well, you
can see how my overall impression of the place might be a little sour.
But that's enough out of me. For what it's worth, the volume and
concerned tone of response we've gotten from the various owners of the
Music Loft stores is really gratifying; it means that *some* of them
obviously give a shit about this stuff we're talking about. Hell, maybe
their problem is just that their *employees* are all just as shy as
Chris Rossi and myself. Maybe it's not arrogance or dis-interestedness,
but more just a Walker Martin-esque standoffishness that's more the
result of being a shy sensitive musician type. I kind of tend to doubt
it, but whatever.
Anyway. I just mail-ordered 6 months worth of DAT tapes from a small
company in Connecticut run entirely by Deadheads (Terrapin Tapes). They
sell data-grade 2-hour DATs for $4 apiece, and they are just utterly
absurdly nice. And not only do they do a good job of evangelizing for
their product, they also go out of their way to stuff each box they ship
out with souvenirs from whatever big summer hippie festival they've been
to lately.
Which doesn't really do much for me, cuz I'm not a hippie, but it *does*
tell me that, like me, these are people who do their jobs because
they're having fun. Which I think should be supported.
Ross
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
ch-s...@listserv.oit.unc.edu wrote:
> Chris Rossi detailed several experiences with music stores which echoed
> most of my experiences with music stores in general, in all the various
> states in which I've lived. Which tells me, I guess, that either (a)
> certain of us just don't feel comfortable in music stores, or (b)
> they've all got that similar problem, which is probably the result of
> dealing with wankers all day, but if you don't wanna deal with wankers,
> you probably shouldn't be in sales.
>
THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE TO KEEP A SENSE OF THE AUTHOR'S POINT}
> At the Music Loft, it's maybe 1 in 10 times I go in there. And since I
> don't wind up going in there more than 5 or 10 times a year, well, you
> can see how my overall impression of the place might be a little sour.
>
> But that's enough out of me. For what it's worth, the volume and
> concerned tone of response we've gotten from the various owners of the
> Music Loft stores is really gratifying; it means that *some* of them
> obviously give a shit about this stuff we're talking about. Hell, maybe
> their problem is just that their *employees* are all just as shy as
> Chris Rossi and myself. Maybe it's not arrogance or dis-interestedness,
> but more just a Walker Martin-esque standoffishness that's more the
> result of being a shy sensitive musician type. I kind of tend to doubt
> it, but whatever.
> Ross
>
******************* I absolutely guarantee you that Jay Miller and I care
enormously about getting all our employees to show courtesy and respect to
our customers. Yesterday Jay meet with the folks at The Music Connection and
summarized these posts. The entire meeting was about the fact that we
weren't doing the kind of job we should in making people feel welcome. If
anybody goes into one of our stores and gets less than an 100% effort from
the employees, please email me. People are spending hard-earned money at our
Music Stores. They ought to be able to feel good about doing so. I am
presently printing out these various posts and they are going to be given to
each employee. Thanks, Doug
James Hepler
always been treated extremely well there.
Drum stores are funny because drums A) You have to try the shit out as
you would in practice or on stage, and B) there's no volume knob. I
was buying a new cymbal there a coupla months ago. I'd walk around
the store banging them with my hand to see how they sound (I'm so shy
I don't want people to know I'm in there). A guy from the store walks
up to me with a stick and says, "You gotta bang the shit out of them".
Chatted with him for a while about price vs. quality and personal
preference and ended up walking out of there with a new cymbal and a
few pieces of hardware that they threw in for free.
When I bought my kit there, they put on expensive new heads for free,
and ended up taking 5-10 dollars off just about every stand I looked
at. At the end they gave me a key and some sticks and I negotiated
the rush hour traffic back to Chapel Hill with a big smile on my face.
Haven't had a similar experience at any other store in the ten years
I've been shopping for music.
James Hepler
Bob La Force
> I am presently printing out these various posts and they are going to be given to
> each employee. Thanks, Doug
>
Gee, I hope you are deleting the names of the people sending the emails
before you turn them over to your emplyees....
dougatin...@my-dejanews.com
stores now use the internet, so they're reading this discussion on their own
using Deja News. If anything, anybody who posted deserves the highest
possible level of attention by the employees. We've already had several
meetings at the stores and have more scheduled. If anybody who posted wants
their names not included, please email me. I've printed out all the posts
and I'll copy them tomorrow. Also, our band, Indoor Storm, is playing at
the Skylight Exchange this Friday, July 24th at 9:00 p.m. I'm going to bring
some boxes of electric guitar strings. Anybody who has posted or who has
been reading this post can get a free set merely by coming up and saying
hello. I'll bring 20 sets or so of strings. I realize there are drummers
out there, so the next time we play, I'll bring some drum sticks on the same
deal. Your willingness to give us brutally candid criticism is very much
appreciated. Thanks, Doug
In article <35B4AF5E...@acpub.duke.edu>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
OaktreeUNC
capital. does anyone have any specifics i could get. i would love to stop by
there the next time i have to go to the home brewing place in raliegh to get my
brewing supplies.
david gourley
i got a new guitar there at the end of last year, and found a scratch on it.
tony (durham store) told me to just play it, and when a new one came in, i
could just trade for a new one 'fresh out of the box.' well, the new one came
in, and they followed through to the letter. i'm happy to spend $$$ there,
because they *do* care about what they're doing.
david
Ludkmr
Good food, good laughs, biker talk and, of course, my friends work there. So I
like it for that reason.
But, if I were Joe Six-String, I think I'd be especially impressed with the
guitar selection. The right nods to US and Nafta fender gear, a lot of gibson
and a not so shabby selection of Ricks, Guilds and other such brands.
kmr
Scott Warner
'regular'. Anyway, here goes.
Music Loft- I've mostly had good service (usually from Walt) everytime
I've been there. And I've bought most of my stuff there. Decent
prices, low pressure, and non-patronizing attitude made it a good
experience.
Fat Sound- Same deal...although I've bought less stuff there. However,
I know people who work there. This makes a difference.
Music Connection- Hard to find help. Lots of people hanging around. I
asked about a discount once about a telecaster. And I got a sorta snide
answer. Once you grab someone, you can get the time of day. Again, If
you know someone, it makes a difference.
Harry's- Prices are not for the working man. But it's a cool shop.
Again, I know someone.
Pearson Music- Not on the cutting edge of guitar/studio equipment. But
a good experience.
Associated Sound Products and Bass Music- Well, let's just say that
first impressions are lasting ones. And I'll never set foot in these
places again.
I worked retail in a music store (in another city) for years. Our
manager *always* stressed the 'friendly factor' to us. We checked our
attitudes at the door. And we treated everyone with respect; no matter
how much they deserved to be violated with a toilet plunger. It made a
difference. Some of the Raleigh music stores have a bad reputation in
other cities for 'just [not giving] a damn'. And I can see why.
Our store had to be 'hip' enough to be a guitar shop. But it also had
to be 'respectable' enough to sell the big-bucks grand pianos to the
mayor, churches, etc. We managed to pull it off. It's not that hard.
Before I get flamed, please be advised that I'm not the type of shopper
who just walks the hell right up to the counter and demands help. I
expect a friendly greeting when I walk in. Then I enjoy a few minutes
to look around. By then, the salesdude/chick can see what I'm there
for; and approach with an offer to help. Call me old fashioned, call me
a Southern, non-assertive bastard. But these expectations are on what I
based the above critiques. Bring the noise!
'Well, it's one louder. Init?'
-Scott
Thomas Szypulski
Just before Adventure Landing, on your left heading away from Raleigh
on Capital Blvd.
noa...@my-dejanews.com
and I have been asking our staff to follow. That includes the Music Lofts
and The Music Connection. Anybody going to a music store whether to look or
whether the person is ready to buy is entitled to that kind of treatment --
at minimum. Also, anybody ought to be able to inquire about prices without
being made to feel badly. At least part of the problem with the stores is
the difference in perception that some of the staff have about their own
behavior. They were startled, honestly, to read the posts and to hear about
the posts. I tend to believe some of our stafff was clueless as to how
uncomfortable the store felt to some of our customers. In part, that may be
because for customers who shop regularly with Music Loft and The Music
Connection it is definitely a place where good deals are happening and in a
friendly environment. Clearly, however, there are all kinds of people who
come to the stores and feel like they are being treated like second class
citizens. Thanks, Doug
In article <35B665...@earthlink.net>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Chris
Chris
John Sessoms
It's the old Hechinger's store, behind where the Shoney's used to be.
It's right across the street from where the Music Loft in Raleigh's
going to build their new store. BTW, I noticed the Loft already has a
"Clearance" store located there.
--
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