the indy be dogging ruby out
Tom Corbitt
better
article on Ruby. It's like the author got paid to use the phrases 'too
young', 'ego'
and 'abrasive' If this dreck is all they can publish, maybe they should
consider
another line of work.
Jeez,
tom corbitt
DOLMUS
I once sat at a table with a bunch of people I didn't know and suddenly the
subject of a.m.c-h came up and virtually everyone started yapping about how
much they liked this gal or hated that guy on the newsgroup and as it
turned out virtually everyone had the same opinion about miss sinreich and
basically it was best expressed by a gal who said that miss sinreich gave
you the impression of that girl in your fourth grade class who was such an
annoying know-it-all although of course she was smart and everything and I
just had to add that those girls never really bothered me too much because
they were often right but this cannot be said to be the case with miss
sinreich who I'm sure gets sweats lying in her little bed at night thinking
about all those awful things happening at the school of the americas and
how beastly white people are to black people and wouldn't it be wonderful
if they'd just stop setting those fires in the rainforest and it just makes
you wonder if people like this exist outside the cozy
preaching-to-the-choir loony-toon womb of quaint little college towns
filled to the brim with well-meaning book-reading cafe-going people who
nonetheless literally do not have one fucking clue about what it's like to
be some working stiff from a long line of white trash working stiffs with
no education or prospects living in some bleak podunk and working in some
windowless mill and a gallon of hogwash about patriarchial oppression and
diversity and rainbow coalition and save the creek ain't gonna make my
rusted trailer any prettier or keep some fucking middle-class commie kid up
at the University from burning the flag my daddy died fighting for in Nam.
-- Billy Ray Dolmus
Gilbert George Neal
>
> Tom Corbitt wrote:
>
> > What the fuck is up with the indy? One of my cats could have written a
> > better
> > article on Ruby. It's like the author got paid to use the phrases 'too
> > young', 'ego'
> > and 'abrasive' If this dreck is all they can publish, maybe they should
> > consider
> > another line of work.
> >
> > Jeez,
> > tom corbitt
>
> I once sat at a table with a bunch of people I didn't know and suddenly the
> subject of a.m.c-h came up and virtually everyone started yapping about how
> much they liked this gal or hated that guy on the newsgroup and as it
> turned out virtually everyone had the same opinion about miss sinreich and
> basically it was best expressed by a gal who said that miss sinreich gave
> you the impression of that girl in your fourth grade class who was such an
> annoying know-it-all although of course she was smart and everything and I
> just had to add that those girls never really bothered me too much because
> they were often right but this cannot be said to be the case with miss
Hey, Dolbert,
So, what did they say about you, besides "he's too young to be here
without his mommy" and "Jeesh, he's awful pale.."?
Tom Corbitt
diversity and rainbow coalition and save the creek ain't gonna make my
rusted trailer any prettier or keep some fucking middle-class commie kid up
at the University from burning the flag my daddy died fighting for in Nam."
This is the point where my pinko liberal commie ass points out that if we
didn't
have a white lower class sanbox mentality about ourselves as a nation, your
(real or imagined) daddy would have never been killed in a stupid pissing
contest
far from the homes and ideals he loved so much. (unlike the others who were
just poor and got drafted). Your brand of trailer park ignorance begets middle
class kids who burn flags. One way or another you'll have to accept that,
regardless if you like it or not, the rest of the world is moving forward, and
it's
evolve or die (except in kansas)
tom "flaming and bleeding" corbitt
Walter Davis
DOLMUS wrote:
> a gallon of hogwash about patriarchial oppression and
> diversity and rainbow coalition and save the creek ain't gonna make my
> rusted trailer any prettier or keep some fucking middle-class commie kid up
> at the University from burning the flag my daddy died fighting for in Nam.
you're not suggesting your hogwash is gonna do any better are ya
dolmus? Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
straight out of Rush.
>
> -- Billy Ray Dolmus
--
- walt davis
the views expressed are not necessarily those of the
Alliance for Improvised Music (baobabcomputing.com/aim).
When posting for AIM, I'll use my AIM sig.
DOLMUS
Tom Corbitt wrote:
> This is the point where my pinko liberal commie ass points out that if we
> didn't
> have a white lower class sanbox mentality
"Sanbox mentality" -- did you mean to write "sansbox" (i.e., without box) or
"sandbox" (i.e., infantile)? Let me know, Hanoi Corbitt. I like to know what I'm
being accused of.
> about ourselves as a nation, your
> (real or imagined) daddy would have never been killed in a stupid pissing
> contest
> far from the homes and ideals he loved so much.
Nice revisionism you got going there, college boy: blame the Vietnam War on the
poor. Actually, more specifically, blame in on the "white lower class," as you put
it. If you had any appreciation for history, you'd know that white lower-class
boys -- you know, the kind who didn't have college deferments -- got the body-bag
treatment more than any other group in the stupid war.
The "white lower class" is used to being a big, easy, useful target. Without any
noisy, well-financed groups to protect its interests (except for maybe a few
slow-witted sweaty union boys talking fast with funny accents), and no political
group with enough moral courage to help it carry the economic burden of being poor
and the ideological burden of being the "racist oppressor," it's a practically
immobile target. (It's interesting how a poor white person can be an "oppressor"
-- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get two-hundred SAT points
added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
daughters of black lawyers?)
> (unlike the others who were
> just poor and got drafted). Your brand of trailer park ignorance begets middle
> class kids who burn flags.
Lack of opportunity begets the trailer park
A failure of character and a lack of respect for the memory of the thousands of
men who died fighting for your right to vote for silly little political hobbyists
like Ruby Sinreich begets the spoiled rotten, self-hating, middle-class kids who
burn flags.
-- Billy Ray Dolmus
The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of Simon LeBon or
Dolmus, Inc.
.
>
DOLMUS
Walter Davis wrote:
> DOLMUS wrote:
> > a gallon of hogwash about patriarchial oppression and
> > diversity and rainbow coalition and save the creek ain't gonna make my
> > rusted trailer any prettier or keep some fucking middle-class commie kid up
> > at the University from burning the flag my daddy died fighting for in Nam.
>
> you're not suggesting your hogwash is gonna do any better are ya
> dolmus?
Heck, no.
Billy Ray just gets a little of the devil in him sometimes. Just kinda goes off.
No one knows why.
Best just to stay outta his way when it happens, know whatta mean.
Seriously, though, I was just riffing off some chord. Most of the riffage was
patently silly, but the main chord -- my distaste for self-righteous left-wing
careerist gits like Ruby Sinreich -- was true. Anybody who knows me, knows my
tolerance for ideologues (on the right or left) is low. I hate the poetry of
politics. I want results, and I want technocrats to deliver them.
> Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
> straight out of Rush.
>
That's funny -- I never thought of Geddy Lee's lyrics as being all that
political.
Philip Ayers
<walter...@unc.edu> wrote:
> DOLMUS wrote:
> > a gallon of hogwash about patriarchial oppression and
> > diversity and rainbow coalition and save the creek ain't gonna make my
> > rusted trailer any prettier or keep some fucking middle-class commie kid up
> > at the University from burning the flag my daddy died fighting for in Nam.
>
> you're not suggesting your hogwash is gonna do any better are ya
> dolmus? Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
> straight out of Rush.
> >
> > -- Billy Ray Dolmus
Hey Walter "in the steps of his highship, Grady" Davis,......sheesh I'm
seeing double. Duffus..I mean Dilmus, Dolmus... signed it "Billy
Ray"....get it?
...was it Chicago?
grady
DOLMUS wrote:
> my distaste for self-righteous left-wing
> careerist gits like Ruby Sinreich -- was true.
Do you know Ruby? Have you ever met her? What range of evidence about
Ruby are you basing this on? No, really, I would like for you to
enumerate exactly what your sources are. Conversations in person? Ruby's
posts to a.m.c-h? Things she said at Chapel Hill Transportation Board
meetings? Her webpage? What?
You've got plenty of room to list them here. These electrons are
cheap--too cheap to meter! (tm)
> > Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
> > straight out of Rush.
> >
>
> That's funny -- I never thought of Geddy Lee's lyrics as being all that
> political.
Well, considering that your sample [of Geddy Lee lyrics] would have to
consist of, what, about 3 songs over the course of 20-some-odd Rush
albums, I'm not sure you can really make blanket statements about
Geddy's lyrics. Neil Peart's lyrics, on the other hand, are actually
pretty annoyingly didactic and political--that whole Ayn Rand thing.
Right up your alley, actually, Mr. Technocrat.
Ross listened to nothing but Rush for at least a couple of years there
in middle school Grady
--
------> http://metalab.unc.edu/ch-scene <------
the alt.music.chapel-hill guide to the triangle
--> "like sick cats running over hot coals" <--
John M. Daniel
>
>> Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
>> straight out of Rush.
>>
>
>That's funny -- I never thought of Geddy Lee's lyrics as being all that
>political.
>
"Duuude, like, listen to "The Trees", man. It's like this really deep
*statement*, you know? Cause it's like a parable, I mean with the Oaks and
the Maples, and the Oaks are taking all the light, right? So the Maples
form this union and protest against the oppression, and then they finally
chop down all the Oaks with hatchets."
[takes toke, speaks while holding it in]
"So what they're saying is, if someone starts oppressing you, you gotta go
after 'em with a hatchet."
[exhales, grinds roach into asphalt of Burger King parking lot]
"And don't even get me started on "Witch Hunt". Or, dude, "Limelight"!
Which is about how unfair it is to be a rock star."
[leans against '84 Plymouth Laser, swigs from Coors Light tallboy, wipes
mouth on sleeve of Levi's jean jacket]
DOLMUS
grady wrote:
> DOLMUS wrote:
> > my distaste for self-righteous left-wing
> > careerist gits like Ruby Sinreich -- was true.
>
> Do you know Ruby? Have you ever met her? What range of evidence about
> Ruby are you basing this on? No, really, I would like for you to
> enumerate exactly what your sources are. Conversations in person? Ruby's
> posts to a.m.c-h? Things she said at Chapel Hill Transportation Board
> meetings? Her webpage? What?
>
> You've got plenty of room to list them here. These electrons are
> cheap--too cheap to meter! (tm)
>
Evidence gathered from:
(1) Her "Northern Hemisphere Live" stints;
(2) her posts to this newsgroup (that is, prior to the announcement of her
candidacy -- since then she has toned down the True Believer cant);
(3) conversations with people who claim to have met her, know her, or know of
her; and;
(4) above all, that Tri Delt-Bolshevik mantra that was, for months, stamped
at the botton of her posts, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying
attention." (This phrase, however, was removed a day after I lampooned it in
one of my posts [I wrote something like "If you're outraged, you're probably
spending too much time at Internationalist books"] -- apparently, the perfect
dilettante silliness of it became obvious even to her.)
>
> > > Shit, we expect better from you -- this whiny rant came
> > > straight out of Rush.
> > >
> >
> > That's funny -- I never thought of Geddy Lee's lyrics as being all that
> > political.
>
> Well, considering that your sample [of Geddy Lee lyrics] would have to
> consist of, what, about 3 songs over the course of 20-some-odd Rush
> albums, I'm not sure you can really make blanket statements about
> Geddy's lyrics. Neil Peart's lyrics, on the other hand, are actually
> pretty annoyingly didactic and political--that whole Ayn Rand thing.
My shameful ignorance of Rush is now completely obvious to the NG.
> Right up your alley, actually, Mr. Technocrat.
>
Ayn Rand liked the idea of a government run by non-ideological technocrats?
News to me.
Ruby Sinreich
but at this point I'm going to let some of my supporters deal with it so I
can focus on getting the truth out about my campaign and winning this
election.
DOLMUS (DOL...@prodigy.net) wrote:
: Anybody who knows me, knows my
: tolerance for ideologues (on the right or left) is low. I hate the poetry of
: politics. I want results, and I want technocrats to deliver them.
Anyone who knows me (which is not a category that you are in, Dolmus*)
knows that you (and Kirk Kicklighter) are talking about someone else. I'm
not going to defend myself against criticisms of things I never did or
some hyped-up phantom idea of who I am.
= Ruby
(* At least I don't think I know you. I still don't know who you are.)
--
R u b y S i n r e i c h
http://vote.ruby.org
Gilbert George Neal
Will
DOLMUS wrote:
> Tom Corbitt wrote:
>
> > This is the point where my pinko liberal commie ass points out that if we
> > didn't
> > have a white lower class sanbox mentality
>
> "Sanbox mentality" -- did you mean to write "sansbox" (i.e., without box) or
> "sandbox" (i.e., infantile)? Let me know, Hanoi Corbitt. I like to know what I'm
> being accused of.
only someone as clever as yourself could even have seen the francophone possibility
so very clever. way too clever. clever, even, unto irrelevance
> > about ourselves as a nation, your
> > (real or imagined) daddy would have never been killed in a stupid pissing
> > contest
> > far from the homes and ideals he loved so much.
>
> Nice revisionism you got going there, college boy: blame the Vietnam War on the
> poor. Actually, more specifically, blame in on the "white lower class," as you put
> it. If you had any appreciation for history, you'd know that white lower-class
> boys -- you know, the kind who didn't have college deferments -- got the body-bag
> treatment more than any other group in the stupid war.
actually, more specifically, he blamed it on a 'mentality'. you snipped that part
it was because we 'have a white lower class sanbox mentality about ourselves as
a nation'. he meant 'sandbox' which I understood, despite being fallible myself
> The "white lower class" is used to being a big, easy, useful target. Without any
> noisy, well-financed groups to protect its interests (except for maybe a few
> slow-witted sweaty union boys talking fast with funny accents), and no political
> group with enough moral courage to help it carry the economic burden of being poor
> and the ideological burden of being the "racist oppressor," it's a practically
if you had read the article, you would know that Ms. Sinreich's day job is with the NC
Justice & Community Development Center, where she 'advocates for economic
empowerment for the poor'. the article also states, 'She is one of the few Council
candidates who speaks with any regularity about the need to listen to the voices
of the low-income and minorities in the town.'
but you don't need to read the article, and you don't need to know her. you once sat
with a bunch of people you don't know, and some of the girls started talking about
her,
and they said she was a know-it-all, and you didn't mind those girls so much because
they were often right, but in this case they weren't, and you know because you can see
Ms. Sinreich lying in her bed at night, and you can imagine what goes through her mind
> -- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get two-hundred SAT points
> added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
> of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
> daughters of black lawyers?)
the savage, brutal injustice of this inequity will dog you till your dying days,
living, as you
do, in a trailer park, and being, as you are, the son of a patriot who died in 'Nam,
and
bearing, as you do, the standard of disenfrachised white people. poor you. poor,
poor, white
person. if only there were advocacy groups to stick up for the rights and to look
after the
needs of whites. if only someone would stand up and demand justice for the white man
oh wait, I forgot. there is the Republican Party
never mind
> A failure of character and a lack of respect for the memory of the thousands of
> men who died fighting for your right to vote for silly little political hobbyists
> like Ruby Sinreich begets the spoiled rotten, self-hating, middle-class kids who
> burn flags.
whatever they may have died for, no American who died in Viet Nam did so defending any
American's right to vote. perhaps that's why you yourself called it a "stupid war".
also, if you
took note of Ms. Sinreich's record of public service as stated in the article, perhaps
you
would be less inclined to call her names like "political hobbyist" and "git"
> -- Billy Ray Dolmus
>
> The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of Simon LeBon or
> Dolmus, Inc.
whatever, right, you hate idealogues, you were just riffing, and most of what you said
you didn't mean,
except the part where you called Ruby Sinreich a git
Will Sexton
my real name
my real views
Walter Davis
> added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
> of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
> daughters of black lawyers?)
this is not how it works dolmus, which if you don't know, you should. I
think it's 76% of black applicants to elite schools have combined SAT's
over 1100 -- and there is virtually no difference in graduation rates
(or later earnings) and fairly small differences in college GPA between
students who score 1100 and those who score 1400 -- so for well over a
decade black students accepted at elite universities have been perfectly
well qualified to be there.
Now it is true black students are accepted at higher rates than "equally
qualified" white students. (that's in quotes because all these measures
of "merit" and even combined with the measures of "background" do a
pretty piss-poor job of predicting college outcomes, so we do a crappy
job of measuring whatever qualities do affect graduation, GPA, etc., so
we can't really say who's equally qualified) However, the idea that
poor whites are being significantly displaced by rich blacks in
selective colleges & universities doesn't hold water. (1) rich blacks
are a small percentage of black applicants and (2) poor whites are (and
always have been) a small percentage of white applicants (and
acceptances). To remove the sons & daughters of black lawyers would
primarily just open up more spots for the sons & daughters of white
lawyers. "Race-blind" admissions would (1) remove about 2/3 of the
blacks from elite higher education (leaving primarily the wealthy ones
by the way) while (2) increasing white acceptance rates by about 1-2%.
(In other words, about 98% of the white students who are currently
rejected would still be rejected.) That actually leaves you with a
school with fewer poor students than before, though the number of poor
students who are white would be a bit higher. Just to make sure that
point is clear: if poor whites are being denied deserved spots, they are
not primarily taken by the black elite but rather the black poor. The
black elite will be there anyway.
(and you'd probably do better in terms of poor white enrollment by
eliminating "legacy" admissions, so why don't you make those your first
target)
And, as you may not have known, until recently most Ivy League schools
and many other elite schools had need-blinds admission. (To my
knowledge, they all gave that up about 10 years ago, supposedly for
financial reasons). They continue to have extensive scholarship and
loan programs for those who can't afford college. And then there are
schools like Berea, which is free to any Appalachian kid who qualifies
(even the sons & daughters of wealthy Appalachian lawyers). And then
you have schools like UNC which have county quotas -- it's a lot easier
for a kid from a poor county to get in than an "equally qualified" kid
from Orange or Wake counties. And many schools consider hardship in a
manner similar to how they have considered race.
If you're gonna get worked up, the target of your ire should not be
minorities but rather the kids of white elites -- they're the ones
taking the spots that could/should go to poor white kids and they've
been doing it for 200 years. Which is of course one reason why the
political right loves this issue -- it creates more intra-class
hostility among the poor and distracts them from the true (and vast)
inequality among classes in our country.
By the way, blacks aren't taking away the jobs either. Anyone who
thinks there's anything resembling even mildly effective affirmative
action with regards to employment in this country might want to actually
look at some data.
[on a side note, the boost in graduation rates for any female is
approximately equal to the difference in rates between a male with a
1300+ SAT (or 1100+) and a male with a 900 SAT (after controlling for
high school rank, SES, race, major, and other stuff). So, "by the
merits", colleges should take every female over an 1100 SAT, then start
admitting males over 1100 and females over 900 at an approximately equal
rate. When you look at GPA, the boost for female is about half that for
the increased SAT, such that women with a 1000 SAT average about the
same as men with a 1300+ SAT. Nobody seems to mind the affirmative
action for males which keeps their enrollment artificially high and pays
them a _lot_ more money when they get out. I know I don't. :-)]
> A failure of character and a lack of respect for the memory of the thousands of
> men who died fighting for your right to vote for silly little political hobbyists
> like Ruby Sinreich begets the spoiled rotten, self-hating, middle-class kids who
> burn flags.
But that's not why they died. That's what some of them thought they
were dying for, or at least it's what some of them thought they were
going to fight for. But as usual they died because the elite of this
country decided their lives weren't worth as much as the image of the
elite. And to suggest that our right to vote was on the line in Vietnam
is just silly. Besides, given the extra-constitutional shenanigans
going on in government at the time (Hoover, Nixon, lying about
casualties, secret bombings, etc.), I daresay the folks posing the
biggest threat to our constitutional rights were the same ones shipping
all those poor kids off to die.
Can we just agree: it was a stupid war, it was poorly fought, and a
whole shitload of people who didn't deserve to die died. That in itself
should be more than enough to disgust us. That race and class and other
stuff played a part in who died only makes it more disgusting. But
let's focus our anger and resentment towards those responsible for the
disgusting war, not those who died less often than whatever group I'm
personally identifying with today.
As far as Ruby goes Dolmus, how about sitting down and talking to her
before calling her a git? If you haven't figured it out yet, you will
-- newsgroup posts (or interviews) can often draw a misleading picture
of a person. Like right now you look like a right wing jackass who's
taking the easy road of blaming blacks.
--
whit
>
> Right on, Tom! There are a lot of things not to like about the article,
> but at this point I'm going to let some of my supporters deal with it so I
> can focus on getting the truth out about my campaign and winning this
> election.
>
I'll try and offer a third opinion here - maybe the Ruby camp can see it
as a swing voter opinion since I'm moving to CH.
I only know of Ruby - I don't know Ruby. My view of the gist of the
article having gone through it only once is: Ruby is hard working,
dedicated, driven and hates dealing with bullshit. Since bullshit is
sometimes in the eye of the beholder, many, including those ostensibly
on her side on some issues, see her as abrasive and difficult to work
with.
Like it or not, my view is that this accurately reflects an image much
of the community has of Ruby, even if it's an incorrect image. Many
don't express it because they expect a backlash. How this affects her
ability to win votes, I don't know for sure, but I think being an
activist and being a politician can require different strategies.
Listen to me is different than vote for me.
If this image of Ruby is inaccurate, I think this Indy article offers a
rare opportunity to address it. An opportunity many politicians would
salivate over. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a voter being
targetted by Ruby's campaign that doesn't read the Indy. *My* opinion is
that it needs to be done by Ruby herself if it's to have any effect at
all. Supporters answering vitriol with vitriol only supports the premise
of the article.
I *do* think the choice of the word "hipster" on the cover was
unfortunate and kinda condescending though.
Decide for yourselves how useful my opinions are.
I'll butt out now.
-whit
Ken Denny
<walter...@unc.edu> wrote:
[speaking to Dolmus]
> Like right now you look like a right wing jackass
If it quacks like a duck ...
Ken Denny
http://www.kendenny.com/
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
chris.c...@juno.com
whit <wh...@med.unc.edu> wrote:
> I only know of Ruby - I don't know Ruby. My view of the gist of the
> article having gone through it only once is: Ruby is hard working,
> dedicated, driven and hates dealing with bullshit. Since bullshit is
> sometimes in the eye of the beholder, many, including those ostensibly
> on her side on some issues, see her as abrasive and difficult to work
> with.
I haven't really been following this thread faithfully, but just wondering if
anyone's brought up the concept of how Ruby would be "perceived" if she was a
hard-driving, no-nonsense, 28 year old *male* politician?
Discuss amongst yourselves. I'm outta here. CAC
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
DOLMUS
Will wrote:
> DOLMUS wrote:
>
> > "Sanbox mentality" -- did you mean to write "sansbox" (i.e., without box) or
> > "sandbox" (i.e., infantile)? Let me know, Hanoi Corbitt. I like to know what I'm
> > being accused of.
>
> only someone as clever as yourself could even have seen the francophone possibility
>
> so very clever. way too clever. clever, even, unto irrelevance
>
I'm a Buddhist: pure and perfect irrelevance is the goal.
>
> > Nice revisionism you got going there, college boy: blame the Vietnam War on the
> > poor. Actually, more specifically, blame in on the "white lower class," as you put
> > it. If you had any appreciation for history, you'd know that white lower-class
> > boys -- you know, the kind who didn't have college deferments -- got the body-bag
> > treatment more than any other group in the stupid war.
>
> actually, more specifically, he blamed it on a 'mentality'. you snipped that part
>
> it was because we 'have a white lower class sanbox mentality about ourselves as
> a nation'. he meant 'sandbox' which I understood, despite being fallible myself
>
> > The "white lower class" is used to being a big, easy, useful target. Without any
> > noisy, well-financed groups to protect its interests (except for maybe a few
> > slow-witted sweaty union boys talking fast with funny accents), and no political
> > group with enough moral courage to help it carry the economic burden of being poor
> > and the ideological burden of being the "racist oppressor," it's a practically
>
> if you had read the article, you would know that Ms. Sinreich's day job is with the NC
> Justice & Community Development Center, where she 'advocates for economic
> empowerment for the poor'. the article also states, 'She is one of the few Council
> candidates who speaks with any regularity about the need to listen to the voices
> of the low-income
Good for her.
> and minorities in the town.'
She and ninety percent of the town's population.
>
> but you don't need to read the article, and you don't need to know her. you once sat
> with a bunch of people you don't know, and some of the girls started talking about
> her,
> and they said she was a know-it-all, and you didn't mind those girls so much because
> they were often right, but in this case they weren't, and you know because you can see
>
> Ms. Sinreich lying in her bed at night, and you can imagine what goes through her mind
>
Literary license.
>
> > -- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get two-hundred SAT points
> > added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
> > of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
> > daughters of black lawyers?)
>
> the savage, brutal injustice of this inequity will dog you till your dying days,
> living, as you
> do, in a trailer park, and being, as you are, the son of a patriot who died in 'Nam,
> and
> bearing, as you do, the standard of disenfrachised white people. poor you. poor,
> poor, white
> person. if only there were advocacy groups to stick up for the rights and to look
> after the
> needs of whites. if only someone would stand up and demand justice for the white man
>
> oh wait, I forgot. there is the Republican Party
>
Adjust the dosage on your medication, pal. Do you think the Republifucks give a wet rat's
bee-hind for poor white people? Do you think that poor white people --when the race card
isn't thrown in by people like Jesse Helms -- vote Republican?
Here's what the Republican party stands for: Making the rich richer. Virtually everything
they do, either directly or indirectly, can be explained by that simple proposition. The
great majority of poor white people understand this, and that is why, when faced between a
choice between the special interest-loving, social-engineering geeks of the Democratic
Party and the blank happy rich faces of the Republicans, they generally vote by not
voting.
>
> never mind
Always mind. Always always mind. Stay alert. Read between the lines. Throw out the dogma.
There is no shining city on the hill. There is no brotherhood of man. There will never be
peace in our time. No one ever feels your pain. Stop believing the poetry. Learn how to
read the data. Real fairness and justice, not cliches. The mundane, not the utopian. The
contras were murdering thugs; the Sandanistas were murdering thugs.
> > A failure of character and a lack of respect for the memory of the thousands of
> > men who died fighting for your right to vote for silly little political hobbyists
> > like Ruby Sinreich begets the spoiled rotten, self-hating, middle-class kids who
> > burn flags.
>
> whatever they may have died for, no American who died in Viet Nam did so defending any
>
> American's right to vote.
In this, you are completely correct.
> perhaps that's why you yourself called it a "stupid war".
> also, if you
> took note of Ms. Sinreich's record of public service as stated in the article, perhaps
> you
> would be less inclined to call her names like "political hobbyist" and "git"
I doubt it.
>
> > -- Billy Ray Dolmus
>
> >
> > The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of Simon LeBon or
> > Dolmus, Inc.
>
>
Please make a note of it.
> whatever, right, you hate idealogues, you were just riffing, and most of what you said
> you didn't mean,
> except the part where you called Ruby Sinreich a git
That's about right.
> Will Sexton
>
> my real name
> my real views
Billy Ray Dolmus
my unreal name
my not-completely-real views
(Note to Will:
We have met. I know you; I know where you're coming from. I know you can speak with some
authority on these things.
Also: I wasn't, of course, attacking "real" poetry, which I love.
-- Dolmus)
:
DOLMUS
Because of my respect for your views and intelligence, I would like to be able to
respond to what you have written in a serious manner. (In fact, I am chomping at the
bit to do so.)
Unfortunately, I work two shifts today, and must leave now. (Somebody has to clean the
bathrooms at Hardees.)
I promise a response ASAP.
In the meantime, all you commie freaks can continue to beat up on poor Billy Ray.
-- Dolmus
Walter Davis wrote:
> > -- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get two-hundred SAT points
> > added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
> > of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
> > daughters of black lawyers?)
>
> this is not how it works dolmus, which if you don't know, you should. I
> think it's 76% of black applicants to elite schools have combined SAT's
> over 1100 -- and there is virtually no difference in graduation rates
> (or later earnings) and fairly small differences in college GPA between
> students who score 1100 and those who score 1400 -- so for well over a
> decade black students accepted at elite universities have been perfectly
> well qualified to be there.
>
> <...>
<snip>
>
Walter Davis
"youth" variant of what journalists almost always do to women in the
news. Usually articles about women can't help but mention what they're
wearing, their hair, and other oh-so-relevant things. In this case, we
get the notes about her knowledge of pop music, her clunky car, her bar
of choice ... and eventually her platform sneakers and jeans. I suppose
I should re-read the article to make sure, but I remember almost no
mention of Ruby's positions, ideas, programs, etc. My memory is we get
about two sentences about smart growth and public transportation.
Frankly I don't much care about candidates' personalities (not that I
get to vote in this election anyway), I care about what they do,
believe, and propose. There were lots of negative quotes about Ruby's
time as head of the transportation committee -- yet nothing on what, if
anything, the committee accomplished under her leadership.
But I am curious as to which bars the other candidates drink at. I'll
vote for Hell over Top of the Hill anytime.
Philip Ayers
> Mr. Davis:
>
> Because of my respect for your views and intelligence, I would like to
be able to
> respond to what you have written in a serious manner. (In fact, I am
chomping at the
> bit to do so.)
>
> Unfortunately, I work two shifts today, and must leave now. (Somebody
has to clean the
> bathrooms at Hardees.)
>
> I promise a response ASAP.
>
> In the meantime, all you commie freaks can continue to beat up on poor
Billy Ray.
Yawn.
> -- Dolmus
>
>
>
> Walter Davis wrote:
>
> > > -- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get
two-hundred SAT points
> > > added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because
of the color
> > > of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending,
middle-class sons and
> > > daughters of black lawyers?)
> >
> > this is not how it works dolmus, which if you don't know, you should. I
> > think it's 76% of black applicants to elite schools have combined SAT's
> > over 1100 -- and there is virtually no difference in graduation rates
> > (or later earnings) and fairly small differences in college GPA between
> > students who score 1100 and those who score 1400 -- so for well over a
> > decade black students accepted at elite universities have been perfectly
> > well qualified to be there.
>
> >
> > <...>
>
> <snip>
>
>
> >
S. Warner
Ruby Sinreich <rub...@sunsite.unc.edu> wrote in message
news:7upqhu$9d7$1...@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu...
> Right on, Tom! There are a lot of things not to like about the article,
> but at this point I'm going to let some of my supporters deal with it so I
> can focus on getting the truth out about my campaign and winning this
> election.
>
>
> : Anybody who knows me, knows my
> : tolerance for ideologues (on the right or left) is low. I hate the
poetry of
> : politics. I want results, and I want technocrats to deliver them.
>
>
> Anyone who knows me (which is not a category that you are in, Dolmus*)
> knows that you (and Kirk Kicklighter) are talking about someone else. I'm
> not going to defend myself against criticisms of things I never did or
> some hyped-up phantom idea of who I am.
>
> = Ruby
>
>
> (* At least I don't think I know you. I still don't know who you are.)
>
> --
> R u b y S i n r e i c h
> http://vote.ruby.org
I just wanna' know if the Prince stuff is true.
-Scott
wps
> We have met. I know you; I know where you're coming from.
then, it would appear that you have the advantage
wps
grady
> I only know of Ruby - I don't know Ruby. My view of the gist of the
> article having gone through it only once is: Ruby is hard working,
> dedicated, driven and hates dealing with bullshit. Since bullshit is
> sometimes in the eye of the beholder, many, including those ostensibly
> on her side on some issues, see her as abrasive and difficult to work
> with.
My problem with the article was not the basic characterization of Ruby
as you express it (though I think you might be reading a little more
kindness into it than I did), but rather the fact that the piece devoted
3000+ words to Ruby's childhood, her personality traits, her car, her
clothes, and her favorite bar--and around 100 words to her ideas &
philosophies about running Chapel Hill.
I'd prefer to base my voting decisions on the candidates' positions on
the issues, not where they drink, what they drive, or how loudly they
speak. You know?
> Like it or not, my view is that this accurately reflects an image much
> of the community has of Ruby, even if it's an incorrect image. Many
> don't express it because they expect a backlash. How this affects her
> ability to win votes, I don't know for sure, but I think being an
> activist and being a politician can require different strategies.
> Listen to me is different than vote for me.
Sure. But is it more important for the Indy to air speculation about how
well Ruby might get along with her fellow Councilpeople once elected
(and remember, some of that speculation was from people who might well
have other reasons to not want Ruby in office) than to cover how her
positions on the issues differ from those of the other candidates?
And is the Indy going to provide us a rundown of the other candidates'
personality traits, or is that a distinction reserved for the young
female candidates only? I've been reading the Indy for 7+ years and I
can't recall any other candidate receiving quite the same treatment.
> *My* opinion is
> that it needs to be done by Ruby herself if it's to have any effect at
> all. Supporters answering vitriol with vitriol only supports the premise
> of the article.
Hmm. I thought the premise of the article was that (a) members of my
generation are apathetic, except for Ruby, and (b) Ruby can be really
abrasive sometimes. Having her respond would tend to reinforce both
those premises. Having supporters (or, better yet, folks like you & me &
Walt, who don't live in Carrboro and who don't have as much vested
interest in seeing Ruby elected) write in would tend to refute at least
(a) and probably (b) as well, inasmuch as it would at least prove that
not everybody in town thinks Ruby's an ass, as the article suggests.
Oh well. I already wrote my letter. I encourage anybody else, whether or
not you like Ruby or even plan to vote in this election, to write in &
tell the Indy that you'd prefer a little more actual issues-oriented
coverage and a little less "platform sneakers" in their candidate
profiles.
Unless, of course, you base your vote on all that other stuff, in which
case, congratulations, you already rule the world.
xoxoxo
Ross
iandavis
things to say:
1. People who run for public office lose a large amount of control (short of libel and slander in
their legal definitions) over what the media and people in the community who previously have been
unaware of them say, write.
2. A lot of people are publically smooth operators and privately "abrasive" (probably most
politicians and many corporate officers). A lot of people are publically abrasive and privately
smooth (Bob Dole springs to mind). Neither one is an indication of their efficacy as public
servants.
3. Many people don't have excellent "listening" skills. In fact, what people seem to mean when they
say that people don't have listening skills is that they don't do what *I* want them to do or they
don't change their mind to mirror *my* thoughts on the matter.
4. It is a great thing, whether you agree with Ruby, Jesse, Clinton, or whomever, to have public
debate. It is great to have people that believe strongly enough in ideas, are willing and capable of
expressing them, and are willing to TRY to convince others, within the limits of their socially
parametrized abilities, to do something about all the things that are less than perfect in our lives
and on this world. I prefer to have people at all point of the continuum hammering away at me - it
helps me to refine precisely what I DO think about various issues and their complexities (since I
have decided not to do politics or public stuff (except public music)).
5. Although it is fine to pick at the various aspects of this article and the various aspects of
what people THINK they know and don't know about Ruby, it is unnecessary for people to be mean
spirited about this stuff. What Ruby is trying to do doesn't warrant the reaction, what the article
said doesn't warrant it, and politics in Chapel Hill doesn't warrant it (in my opinion).
6. I think it will be a great thing if Ruby is elected, although we certainly belong to the fat
landed liberals that increasingly populate Chapel Hill and Orange County. I think this place could
stand to hear the things Ruby has to say on a regular basis. I want her potentially fellow council
members to hear them regularly in a forum they cannot exscape. Politics shouldn't be about comfort -
it should be REALLY hard work and I'm convinced that, whether she's abrasive or not, she works her
high energy derriere off! That's what I want happening all the time in politics!
There are probably more points but who cares!
Thanks,
Ian
whit
>
>
> And is the Indy going to provide us a rundown of the other candidates'
> personality traits, or is that a distinction reserved for the young
> female candidates only? I've been reading the Indy for 7+ years and I
> can't recall any other candidate receiving quite the same treatment.
This is what I meant by the kind of opportunity that other politicians
would salivate over - the no bad publicity thing. But, yes, I realize
we're talking about a campaign that had no intention of being run like others.
>
> Hmm. I thought the premise of the article was that (a) members of my
> generation are apathetic, except for Ruby, and (b) Ruby can be really
> abrasive sometimes. Having her respond would tend to reinforce both
> those premises.
Not if she responds in a way that doesn't come across as An Outrage.
> Having supporters (or, better yet, folks like you & me &
> Walt, who don't live in Carrboro and who don't have as much vested
> interest in seeing Ruby elected) write in would tend to refute at least
> (a) and probably (b) as well, inasmuch as it would at least prove that
> not everybody in town thinks Ruby's an ass, as the article suggests.
I thought her post could come across as "release the hounds" based on
the exchanges I had seen when I wrote my post and I thought it might
carry over in the letters to the editor. Hence the mention of answering
vitriol with vitriol.
But, yes, I think she and her supporters can respond without being
abrasive and I think that could help break the stereotype presented in
the article.
But this is CH/Carrboro and she might not have to worry about such things.
-whit
Russ Barnes
> But I am curious as to which bars the other candidates drink at. I'll
> vote for Hell over Top of the Hill anytime.
It may be a sign of my advancing age, but I've lost patience for any bar
that leaves my throat raw from trying to scream over the sound system
just to have a simple conversation.
whit
> > I only know of Ruby - I don't know Ruby. My view of the gist of the
> > article having gone through it only once is: Ruby is hard working,
> > dedicated, driven and hates dealing with bullshit. Since bullshit is
> > sometimes in the eye of the beholder, many, including those ostensibly
> > on her side on some issues, see her as abrasive and difficult to work
> > with.
>
> anyone's brought up the concept of how Ruby would be "perceived" if she was a
> hard-driving, no-nonsense, 28 year old *male* politician?
>
> Discuss amongst yourselves. I'm outta here. CAC
I think you're selling a lot of CH voters short with this kind of
generalization - it seems like sour grapes to me. I hope I'm not being
written off because I drive an Explorer and "like sports".
But to answer your question:
I think many see her as less Carrboro Mayor and more a left version of
the Raleigh Mayor at this point. Of course, the latter's had his own
version of success.
-whit
grady
>
> chris.c...@juno.com wrote:
> > just wondering if
> > anyone's brought up the concept of how Ruby would be "perceived" if she was a
> > hard-driving, no-nonsense, 28 year old *male* politician?
> I think you're selling a lot of CH voters short with this kind of
> generalization - it seems like sour grapes to me. I hope I'm not being
> written off because I drive an Explorer and "like sports".
Um, Whit, I thought we were talking about an article written by one guy,
in which a handful of politicos (and exactly ZERO civilian non-politico
"CH voters") were quoted expressing their opinions of Ruby. I think
Chris is raising a question about (a) the Indy's coverage, and (b) the
perceptions of the people quoted in the article, not "a lot of CH
voters," none of whom were even asked their opinions.
If anything, it's the Indy who are selling the CH voters short by (a)
assuming they care more about superficial personality traits than
platform, and (b) not bothering to ask them their opinions. This is just
one more example of how punditry has replaced serious political
reportage, only this time it's on a local level. "So, Biff, what do you
think Ruby's chances of winning are?" has replaced "So, what are Ruby's
positions on the issues?"
That's what grosses me out.
> But to answer your question:
>
> I think many see her as less Carrboro Mayor and more a left version of
> the Raleigh Mayor at this point. Of course, the latter's had his own
> version of success.
But what are you basing that on? Have you talked to these "many" people
yourself, or are you just extrapolating from the article? Because I
think Chris's point is that the people interviewed in the article (as
well as the author himself) would have used different language and
expressed different opinions if Ruby were male rather than female.
Point being that a half-dozen peoples' perceptions of Ruby, which are
almost certainly affected by their personal prejudices about appropriate
male vs. appropriate female behavior (Liddy Dole doesn't belch, even at
a bowling alley), have now been way-over-amplified by a writer who chose
to apply his own prejudicial template to the subject (hence the focus on
personal appearance & demeanor rather than issues).
How would it be different if Ruby were a no-nonsense 28-year-old male?
Maybe she'd get the "ho ho isn't candor fun?" Jesse Ventura treatment.
And maybe, just maybe, her interpersonal skills would occupy 30% of the
space in an article about her, rather than 97%. What do you think?
whit
>
> whit wrote:
> >
> > chris.c...@juno.com wrote:
> > > just wondering if
> > > anyone's brought up the concept of how Ruby would be "perceived" if she was a
> > > hard-driving, no-nonsense, 28 year old *male* politician?
>
> > I think you're selling a lot of CH voters short with this kind of
> > generalization - it seems like sour grapes to me. I hope I'm not being
> > written off because I drive an Explorer and "like sports".
>
> Um, Whit, I thought we were talking about an article written by one guy,
> in which a handful of politicos (and exactly ZERO civilian non-politico
> "CH voters") were quoted expressing their opinions of Ruby. I think
> Chris is raising a question about (a) the Indy's coverage, and (b) the
> perceptions of the people quoted in the article, not "a lot of CH
> voters," none of whom were even asked their opinions.
I thought Chris was asking his question in terms of the thread and
public instead of the article and its writer, probably since I was
quoted in his post. He made no mention of the article itself, although,
of course, that's what's driving the thread.
>
> If anything, it's the Indy who are selling the CH voters short by (a)
> assuming they care more about superficial personality traits than
> platform, and (b) not bothering to ask them their opinions. This is just
> one more example of how punditry has replaced serious political
> reportage, only this time it's on a local level. "So, Biff, what do you
> think Ruby's chances of winning are?" has replaced "So, what are Ruby's
> positions on the issues?"
>
> That's what grosses me out.
Fair enough.
>
> > But to answer your question:
> >
> > I think many see her as less Carrboro Mayor and more a left version of
> > the Raleigh Mayor at this point. Of course, the latter's had his own
> > version of success.
>
> But what are you basing that on? Have you talked to these "many" people
> yourself, or are you just extrapolating from the article? Because I
> think Chris's point is that the people interviewed in the article (as
> well as the author himself) would have used different language and
> expressed different opinions if Ruby were male rather than female.
I'm extrapolating from local friends and acquaintances who've been
exposed to Ruby through the newsgroup, radio, local politics, VANISH,
etc. Most, if not all, would ostensibly be on Ruby's side on The Issues.
And, again, I though Chris was speaking in terms of the thread and not
the article specifically. I get a bit defensive about having a frat guy image.
>
> Point being that a half-dozen peoples' perceptions of Ruby, which are
> almost certainly affected by their personal prejudices about appropriate
> male vs. appropriate female behavior (Liddy Dole doesn't belch, even at
> a bowling alley), have now been way-over-amplified by a writer who chose
> to apply his own prejudicial template to the subject (hence the focus on
> personal appearance & demeanor rather than issues).
I got the impression that many of those quoted weren't all necessarily
opponents but were those who had worked with Ruby in various political
arenas (not that this excludes those prejudiced) but I don't have an
Indy handy to check. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm giving people too much credit.
>
> How would it be different if Ruby were a no-nonsense 28-year-old male?
> Maybe she'd get the "ho ho isn't candor fun?" Jesse Ventura treatment.
> And maybe, just maybe, her interpersonal skills would occupy 30% of the
> space in an article about her, rather than 97%. What do you think?
>
Hell, I don't know. I'm not writing these things. *I* think I'd be
speculating but maybe I'm naive.
I seem to remember an Indy article on Glen Lang having about the same
skew with a high abrasive-personality-to-issues ratio. Anyone remember
better than me? If someone has access to it, that might answer the question.
-whit
chris.c...@juno.com
whit <wh...@med.unc.edu> wrote:
> I thought Chris was asking his question in terms of the thread and
> public instead of the article and its writer, probably since I was
> quoted in his post. He made no mention of the article itself, although,
> of course, that's what's driving the thread.
My apologies, Whit... my question really wasn't directed specifically at you
or what you wrote. And I in no way meant to stick you with any kind of frat
boy image! Rather, the paragraph that I snipped from your post was just what
cued the *general* question for me. Yeah, it had to do with the article
*and* the thread (not so much the electorate, I don't think). And I wasn't
expecting that there was an answer to the question, just that it's something
that should be thought about. Sexism (like racism, classism, or any of a
number of other isms) is out there, whether it's immediately obvious or
not.... on a.m.c-h and perhaps even in the Independent. CAC
Ruby Sinreich
: I just wanna' know if the Prince stuff is true.
: -Scott
Sort of. (Kind of inaccurate, like a lot of things in the article.)
Prince came on the jukebox and I named "U Got the Look" in 3 notes (it
was a weird intro, too). No biggie - I own the album it's on. When
questioned, I claimed mad skillz at Name That Tune in general, and
80's pop in particular. (There's that "ego" again. Who do I think I am?)
Name That Tune is probably not my top qualification for office, but it
can't hurt!
= Ruby
whit
>
> My apologies, Whit... my question really wasn't directed specifically at you
> or what you wrote. And I in no way meant to stick you with any kind of frat
> boy image!
It probably wouldn't be an insecurity if the shoe didn't fit at times.
-whit
DOLMUS
Walter Davis wrote:
> > -- do his rundown school-attending kids automatically get two-hundred SAT points
> > added to their college board scores when they apply to Yale, because of the color
> > of their skin, like the suburban, prep school-attending, middle-class sons and
> > daughters of black lawyers?)
>
> this is not how it works dolmus, which if you don't know, you should.
I know how it works.
But, before getting started, let me put, in a nutshell, my feelings about "affirmative
action" in college admissions: I am in favor of any college admissions affirmative
action plan that takes into account the educational or socio-economic backgrounds of
applicants. An applicant who attended a crappy public school, whose parents' income
sits near the poverty line, who is the first in her family to apply for admission to a
college, and whose drive and achievement are apparent, shouldn't be expected to have
the same board scores or GPA as some Kaplan-attending, suburban frat-boy wannabe from
Westchester County. Given board scores of 1100 for the former, and 1300 for the latter,
I know who I would chose, and it wouldn't be the kid driving the beamer to his prom.
On the other hand, I don't really care that much about"diversity
I'll limit my discussion to elite schools, because this is where discrimination against
whites and Asians in the admissions process is the most pronounced. By "elite schools,"
I mean, roughly, the top twenty or thirty private universities and colleges in the
country, and maybe the top five public institutions.
Let's start around the mid-1960s. Already, at this point, most elite universities in
the Northeast, upper Midwest, and West have admissions policies that not only do not
discriminate against blacks, but increasingly are designed to expand enrollment of
minorities. By the late-sixties to early-seventies, virtually all elite institutions
will have in place admissions policies which seek to achieve this objective through
direct, undisguised, and unmistakeable quota systems that admit minorities whose
objective academic credentials are considerably lower than those of whites. The schools
usually do not deny that a quota system is being used, and there is no need to: there
is popular support in the country for the idea that to remedy past discrimination,
schools must adopt aggressive approaches to recruiting and graduating minorities,
especially blacks. (There is also no expectation that admitted blacks should have the
same or better scores than whites; after all, they usually come from disadvantaged,
economically depressed backgrounds, don't they?) The reasoning, essentially, was that
affirmative action policies would remain in place for fifteen to twenty years, after
which, increased college graduation rates -- at all schools, not only those with more
prestigious pedigrees -- would produce a new generation of middle-class blacks, whose
children, reaping the benefits of the American dream (better schools, etc.) wouldn't
need preferential treatment when it came time for them to apply to college. This
conventional wisdom was not questioned by any serious person in the seventies. In fact,
half of the proposition did come true: a large new black middle class was produced, in
part because the quotas that often got them into these schools in the first place, and
the government- and private-employer affirmative action policies that warmly greeted
them upon graduation. (Little-known factoid: Black married couples consisting of two
college graduates have incomes roughly equal to those of their white counterparts;
degreed West Indian couples have incomes that are higher than whites.) The other half
hasn't come true: their children have not made much progress in competing academically
(i.e., GPAs and SAT scores) against similarly-positioned whites and Asians. At no level
of the socio-economic scale -- from the very lowest to the very highest -- are the
average SAT scores of blacks even close to those of whites or Asians. (The same cannot
be said for Hispanics.) This is a huge area of concern for local public school systems
around the country.
If you had leafed through any number of the "college admission guides" published in the
1970s, you would have been able to find data directly reflecting the impact of
admissions quotas at the university to which you were interested in applying. In 1976,
for example, you would have read that the 3.7 was the average GPA of a non-minority
applicant accepted to Berekeley, 3.1 for a black applicant, and 2.8 for a Native
American.
Whites were being discriminated against -- a white kid with a 3.1 GPA didn't stand a
snowball's chance in hell in getting into Berkeley with SATs of 1000 (the average for
blacks) -- but at least most (but not all) schools were being honest about what was
happening (you could read about it in the numbers), and, of course, this was a
temporary thing and, once the desired results were achieved, the playing field would be
more level.
This all changed with Alan Baake. Baake had been
This changed after Baake . One thing didn't change, although it woyuldn't be fully
known until the nineties:
But here is the truth: Nothing changed.
DOLMUS
draft.
Or more accurately: a profoundly embarassing BOO-BOO by Dolmus.
Yep, I hit the "Send" button when I didn't mean to. What you just read, I did not mean to
post.
At around noon, I finally got a chance to sit down and respond to Mr. Davis' "affirmative
action" post. After spending about an hour typing, I realized that I was going to need
about another three or four four hours to do my response any kind of justice.
I then asked myself: why am I spending so much of my time (especially on a beautiful
weekend day like today) writing something that only a handful of the people on the NG are
going to want to read (and those who do read it will likely hate)?
I decided I would (instead of finishing my response) simply send an E-mail to Mr. Davis (I
had promised him that I would respond), telling him that the subject interested me, that I
disagreed with him, but I was too lazy and busy to write the kind of response I would need
to write.
Instead -- for some unknown (unconscious?) reason -- I hit the "Send" button.
By now, you may have read the results.
.
:
DOLMUS
Or, more accurately: a profoundly embarassing BOO-BOO by Dolmus.
Yep, I hit the "Send" button when I didn't mean to. What you just read, I did not mean to
post.
At around noon, I finally got a chance to sit down and respond to Mr. Davis' "affirmative
action" post. After spending about an hour typing, I realized that I was going to need about
another three or four hours to do my response any justice.
I then asked myself why I was spening so much of my time (especially on a beautiful weekend
day like today) writing something that only a handful of people on the NG are going to want to
read (and those who read it will likely hate)?
I decided I would (instead of finishing my response) simply send an E-mail to Mr. Davis (I had
promised him that I would respond to his post), telling him that the subject interested me,
that I disagreed with him, but I was too lazy and busy to write the kind of response I felt
would need to write.
Instead -- for some unknown reason -- I absent-mindedly hit the "Send" button, and, by now,
you have read the results.
My apologies to the NG.
Ruby Sinreich
: I got the impression that many of those quoted weren't all necessarily
: opponents but were those who had worked with Ruby in various political
: arenas (not that this excludes those prejudiced) but I don't have an
: Indy handy to check. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
In fact you are wrong. I don't mean to harp on this. As I said there are
a lot of things I didn't like about the article, but unless you ask me,
I'm not going to share the litany with you. The assumption you mention
above is important though, because: of the three main detractors quoted in
the article, only one has ever worked in meetings with me (I don't think
he enjoyed the experience any more than I did). Of the other two, one of
them has been introduced to me only once, and the other is one of my
opponents in the race. I don't think they were the most qualified or
balanced perspectives, but they got a lot of play in the article.
You may still feel they know of whence they speak. That's your own
opinion to make. I appreciate the critiques of the article, I think they
are right on. It did an OK job of reflecting me personally, but I don't
think it reflected my campaign very accurately (if at all). That's my
opinion.
May the best tyrant win!
Jessica L. Stern
I can't wait to go vote for you and *I* don't know who Kirk Kicklighter
is. Nice picture though.
-Jessica
SPOOKY5
article.
1. The use of the word Hipster in the title. It's immediately demeaning in a
way that Hippy, Punk or other labels wouldn't be, because it connotates a
neophyte rather than a firm classification; someone who has no firm interests
but rather, jumps from the newest cool thing to the next newest cool thing.
2. The use of the term "abrasive" in southern journalism almost always informs
that the subject is of nothern jewish descent, especially when used in
conjunction with a woman. I expect more from the Independedent.
I also expect more than the North Raleigh news parody. What is that? A sad
attempt to keep up with Todd Morman's media analysis in the competitor. I can
read Barry Saunders style dreck every day. Again, I expect some depth. The
in-depth journalism seemed to disappear with Sue Sturgis' departure.
Gilbert George Neal
>
> THis race is out of my district but I was bothered by a couple of things in the
> article.
>
> 1. The use of the word Hipster in the title. It's immediately demeaning in a
> way that Hippy, Punk or other labels wouldn't be, because it connotates a
> neophyte rather than a firm classification; someone who has no firm interests
> but rather, jumps from the newest cool thing to the next newest cool thing.
Yeah, but what was FALSE?
C'mon, Ruby. You know I love ya.
>
> 2. The use of the term "abrasive" in southern journalism almost always informs
> that the subject is of nothern jewish descent, especially when used in
> conjunction with a woman.
That's fascinating. Is that true? I'm not from the South, and hadn't
heard that. Is there some historical cite you can give that displays
this? And when Charlie Daniels sang "The South's Gonna Do It Again",
what was it that the South was going to do?
Philip Ayers
> SPOOKY5 wrote:
> >
> > THis race is out of my district but I was bothered by a couple of
things in the
> > article.
> >
> > 1. The use of the word Hipster in the title. It's immediately
demeaning in a
> > way that Hippy, Punk or other labels wouldn't be, because it connotates a
> > neophyte rather than a firm classification; someone who has no firm
interests
> > but rather, jumps from the newest cool thing to the next newest cool thing.
>
> Yeah, but what was FALSE?
>
> C'mon, Ruby. You know I love ya.
>
>
> >
> > 2. The use of the term "abrasive" in southern journalism almost always
informs
> > that the subject is of nothern jewish descent, especially when used in
> > conjunction with a woman.
Ruby-
You are paronoid! I'm southern from redneck roots. I married a Yankee and
all my friends are Jewish except one, the guy who pumps my septic tank.
Southerns are a lot of things but I've never known one to disparage God's
own people. Heck.. when a Southern Baptist thinks about converting to
another religion it's usually to Judism. Com'on Ruby, where's that
northern Jewish sense of fairness,? wez just po white trasH look'n fer a
home.
The word "abrasive" said by a "southener" could imply many things, and out
of the mouth of a carpetbagging episcople, "Jew from Brooklyn" could mean
"abrasive"...but that ain't pure southern, far from it, and as we know
that's more likely to imply what most ignorant southerner think of as a
"New Yorker".
I"m friends with many Jewish folks who had interesting and pleasant
memories of Chapel-hill even when they were in the process of being pushed
to the rivers edge.
Chris Clemmons
spo...@aol.com (SPOOKY5) wrote:
> 1. The use of the word Hipster in the title. It's immediately
demeaning in a
> way that Hippy, Punk or other labels wouldn't be, because it
connotates a
> neophyte rather than a firm classification; someone who has no firm
interests
> but rather, jumps from the newest cool thing to the next newest cool
thing.
I agree with you, sort of. After I wrote something about subtle sexism
I thought I should have also said something about subtle age-ism. I.E.,
the notion that "young" + "female" + "hip" = "ain't she a cute little
activist but do we really want her deciding where traffic lights go?"
But I don't necessarily agree that "Hippy" (read: lazy marijuana smoker
who doesn't wash hair), "Punk" (read: scary hair and indiscriminate
piercings and they leer at me 'cause I wear a tie) or any other label
would have been any better than "Hipster." That's what sucks about
labels... any label can carry a negative connotation depending on who's
reading it. Note that Whit was leery of being labelled a "Frat Boy."
> 2. The use of the term "abrasive" in southern journalism almost always
informs
> that the subject is of nothern jewish descent, especially when used in
> conjunction with a woman. I expect more from the Independedent.
Unless they're referring to Comet, Bon Ami or any of a number of other
gritty household cleaning products.
> I also expect more than the North Raleigh news parody. What is that?
A sad
> attempt to keep up with Todd Morman's media analysis in the
competitor. I can
> read Barry Saunders style dreck every day. Again, I expect some
depth. The
> in-depth journalism seemed to disappear with Sue Sturgis' departure.
I thought the North Raleigh news parody was the best part of last week's
Indy. Melinda Ruley's a good writer. No, it wasn't in-depth journalism
but it was on-target and wry. Better than Barry Saunders.
Just one hipster's opinion. CAC
SPOOKY5
You are paronoid! >>
I wrote that, not Ruby. I'm not calling southerners prejudiced, I referred
specifically to a journalistic shorthand I perceive often in the South, in
journalism. A shorthand that describes a clash with the traditional, patient,
Southern gentility and the role of a woman as a passive citizen.
Discrimination against Jews exists everywhere, even in the south. It sounds
like the people you spend your time with are all very nice and open minded
though. Congratulations.
I don't know Ruby but the slant of the article was apparrent before I opened
the cover.
Bill Mooney
Philip Ayers
(SPOOKY5) wrote:
> << Ruby-
> You are paronoid! >>
>
>
> I wrote that, not Ruby. I'm not calling southerners prejudiced, I referred
Oh.....ok.......that doesn't matter.
> specifically to a journalistic shorthand I perceive often in the South, in
> journalism. A shorthand that describes a clash with the traditional, patient,
> Southern gentility and the role of a woman as a passive citizen.
>
> Discrimination against Jews exists everywhere, even in the south. It sounds
> like the people you spend your time with are all very nice and open minded
> though. Congratulations.
Thanks......everybody's is pretty nice... however the septic guy doesn't
have very good table manners...'cause he's from Brooklyn.
> I don't know Ruby but the slant of the article was apparrent before I opened
> the cover.
>
> Bill Mooney
While I'm here I MIGHT AS Well say it. " The reason Grady and I don't get
along is I'm a "self made man" and Grady was "manufactured" by his
parents. That's why I call a.m.c-h the "Grady Bunch". If you don't get it
at first, contact me and I'm going to give you the "Grady Bunch" F.A.Q.
url.
j. alfred prufrock
> Ruby-
> You are paronoid!
well, shucks, i'm southern as grits, i was prodded to read the
aforementioned article last night by the comments in this thread, and i
got the same impression as bill. sounds like the indy wants to make her
out to be a whiny jap. and i can't imagine anything costing anyone more
votes anywhere in america than that sort of stereotype for an image.
fuck the damn indy and please tell me this kirk kickshitter is some kind
of ill-advised hoax.
> I'm southern from redneck roots. I married a Yankee and
> all my friends are Jewish except one, the guy who pumps my septic tank.
> Southerns are a lot of things but I've never known one to disparage God's
> own people.
apparently the problem with southerners is they pretend not to know what
goes on in their own backyard? but wait a second, you were just kidding.
> Heck.. when a Southern Baptist thinks about converting to
> another religion it's usually to Judism.
a day without philip is like a day without sunshine.
> Com'on Ruby, where's that
> northern Jewish sense of fairness,?
i don't think ruby's from the north, either.
> wez just po white trasH look'n fer a home.
> The word "abrasive" said by a "southener" could imply many things, and out
> of the mouth of a carpetbagging episcople, "Jew from Brooklyn" could mean
> "abrasive"...
so the difference is a yankee will let you know his bigotry but us poor
white trash ain't even aware of it?
> but that ain't pure southern, far from it, and as we know
> that's more likely to imply what most ignorant southerner think of as a
> "New Yorker".
actually, i think of them as wasps in westchester letting all the poor
white trash speak their dirty work.
ya know, i really never get to vote for anyone anywhere nearly
representative of even some of my views and with a hoot in holler's
chance of winning an election. if i lived in chapel hill, i'd be falling
all over myself to vote for ruby as many times as i could. from personal
experience i don't like her personal style, although it appears somewhat
muted of late, maybe from the humbling experience of street canvassing
for votes, or maybe she took an anger management class, idunno. i'm
amused by the advertisement of her honesty at the same time claiming she
only belches in the bowling alley. and i don't want to come within
hundreds of miles of living in an area with light rail (and yes, i'm
aware that's not on ruby's printed platform) because i think it's pretty
well obvious to anyone with half an ass what light rail does to promote
-further- sprawl and adversely affect affordable housing. but i am damn
tired of waiting year after year to vote for someone i feel is "one of
us" and i'm forty fucking one. it -is- about time. ruby represents more
of what the indy would vainly like for us to believe they are about than
any candidate for any office i've ever witnessed coming along. i hope
she gets on the council and screams right down the throat of anyone even
so much as suspected of being a faux progressive in the secret pocket of
developers and landlords. we've seen enough of the damage consensus can
do already.
and as for expecting more of the independent, for the life of me i don't
know why anyone would expect jack shit out of that or any other whatever
sells waste of ink. journalism sucks out loud and is not even worth the
criticism, but these local weeklies just take the cake in the stupid but
not cute department. you don't need a doggam weatherman. the only reason
we ever pick up a weekly is to look for show schedules, chuckle over the
hopeless reviews, and to be obliquely reminded that it's not whether
someone is fucking guilty or innocent that's the problem with
executions. so could we just dispense with the annoyance of these flako
fish wrappers, please? maybe frank and dave could just print up a few
thousand flyers on the cheap for the price of just one ad and then
groves could run around dropping them off at local businesses as long as
he's out everywhere with that stapler anyway. would work for me.
let me know if this is too obscure.
3
Ludkmr
Shut the fuck up.
Is that too obscure?
kmr
augury
Periphally on topic:
Why isn't the Independent *on the Web yet* so I can read this article?
Um, is it 1999? Is every other newspaper in the country available on
the Web by now? Yes.
--
Richard Allen
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Philip Ayers
(Ludkmr) wrote:
Ok...I will today.
Ludmark.....having a bad hair day?
DOLMUS
SPOOKY5 wrote:
> The use of the term "abrasive" in southern journalism almost always informs
> that the subject is of nothern jewish descent, especially when used in
> conjunction with a woman. I expect more from the Independedent.
OK, you see, I'm trying to stay out of trouble these days, but that's gonna be real
hard for me to do unless these posts start getting less loopy.
Please, pal: Take a deep breath. Get a grip. Just listen to yourself, will ya?
Far as I'm concerned, ain't that much that separates you from those other
beady-eyed paranoiac freaks runnin' round yammering about Jews, 'cept they got
copies of "The Elders of Zion" in their coat pockets. You've heard one paranoid,
you've heard 'em all. (Your post reminds me of a Jewish woman I once shared a house
with who would accuse me of saying "orange jews" when I asked for the OJ -- only
she was kidding.)
Let me get this straight -- you call a Jewish woman "abrasive," and what you're
really saying is "hey, Jew, we don't need your kind around here." Interesting
short-hand. I guess next time I want to hurl an epithet my girlfriend's way, I'll
just call her "abrasive." Do you have any ideas what code word she might want to
use when she wants to call me a "rotten goy" -- maybe, "polite"? How about
"non-abrasive?" (I can see it now: "How could you forget that today was my
birthday, you,..you,..non-abrasive person!")
"Abrasive" is general code for "Yankee." If it has any more specific meaning, it is
this: "New York/New Jersey Yankee." It does not mean "Jew."
Here's another tid-bit for ya: Ruby Sinreich is called "abrasive" because -- guess
what? -- she is abrasive. (Did you ever listen to "Northern Hemisphere Live"?) It's
her picture next to the word in the Oxford Unabridged. Of course, I would have
thrown in some unfriendlier adjectives (why do "unthinking" and "knee-jerk" come
immediately to mind?) had I written the story, but, you know, I'm not the first guy
the Indy calls when they need somebody to write these things.
I tell ya, following this whole thread has been a real treat. I mean, don't you
guys have better things to do than obsess over some perceived momentary lapse in
the ideological purity of the Indy -- like, maybe, hide some undocumented
Guatemalan refugees in your basement, or pass condoms out to third-graders, or toss
a crucifix into some urine, or throw some infected blood on a CDC researcher, or
adopt an orphaned lesbian child of a migrant farmworker, or pierce your testicles,
or write fan letters to Tawana Brawley, or perform an abortion?
-- Mr
.I've-always-wanted-to-be-a-NYC-intellectual-Jew-but-I-can't-stand-the-neocons-or-
The-Nation-nerds-and-am-not-about-to-pay-1500-a-month-for-some-rundown-walkup-
studio-apartment-on-the-Lower-East-Side-and-there's-no-way-I'm-living-in-Queens-so-
where-does-that-leave-me? Dolmus
Chris Clemmons
DOL...@prodigy.net wrote:
> I tell ya, following this whole thread has been a real treat. I mean, don't you
> guys have better things to do than obsess over some perceived momentary lapse in
> the ideological purity of the Indy
Yes, we do. That's why we've relied on you to post to it more than anyone
else. CAC
Philip Ayers
> -- Mr
>
.I've-always-wanted-to-be-a-NYC-intellectual-Jew-but-I-can't-stand-the-neocons-or-
> The-Nation-nerds-and-am-not-about-to-pay-1500-a-month-for-some-rundown-walkup-
>
studio-apartment-on-the-Lower-East-Side-and-there's-no-way-I'm-living-in-Queens-so-
>
> where-does-that-leave-me? Dolmus
Try Jersey City..it's close to Manhattan and it's got a really good club
seen. I've lived in Brooklyn and lately Williamsburg is a happ'nen spot.
Sorry, can't help with the walk-ups. Speaking of "walk-ups"...everybody
probably remembers I was living in Denmark this past year..in Copenhagen.
I didn't see one elevator in that city of six story buildings. I lived in
a six story "walk-up". It was hard to convinces the babes to come up that
far most of the time, so the third floor had to do.
Gilbert George Neal
j. alfred prufrock
> Phil,
> Shut the fuck up.
> Is that too obscure?
dear mr. ross,
please lighten the fuck up. a man of philip's obvious brilliance doesn't
deserve to be addressed in that manner. a more deserving target of your
bitterness might be our area newsrags which make livings for hundreds of
people selling whatever daily garbage by the hundreds of thousands of a
variety in all sincerity far more stupid than any lowbrow humor philip
ever trolls around.
thank you for your consideration,
3
Philip Ayers
3-
This isn't Ross, but HE HE HE HE Ludmark, is one of the "Grady Bunch."
Sorted and defined in _The Grady Bunch For Dummies_.Publication Date,
January 2000.
Philip Ayers
Be patient.....oups...wrong scene.
DOLMUS
> In article <381728FA...@prodigy.net>,
> DOL...@prodigy.net wrote:
> > I tell ya, following this whole thread has been a real treat. I mean, don't you
> > guys have better things to do than obsess over some perceived momentary lapse in
> > the ideological purity of the Indy
>
> Yes, we do. That's why we've relied on you to post to it more than anyone
> else. CAC
>
>
CACa:
OK, OK, I see yer point -- but, jeeesh, one of those posts was me hitting the wrong
button, and two more were me trying to explain that I hit the wrong button...Blame
these on my poor motor skills and hand/eye coordination. I mean, where's your
compassion? I thought that's one of the qualities you libs were supposed to have in
abundance (kinda like you used to be known for your passionate belief in freedom of
speech, before you started writing all those campus speech codes)...
gulag-ally yours,
mistuh dolmus
Russ Barnes
> 3-
> This isn't Ross, but HE HE HE HE Ludmark, is one of the "Grady Bunch."
> Sorted and defined in _The Grady Bunch For Dummies_.Publication Date,
> January 2000.
Phil, ludkmr is Kirk Ross. Ross is a many-headed entity. Russ, on the
other hand, seems to be just me, at least in this environment.
Jessica L. Stern
> really saying is "hey, Jew, we don't need your kind around here." Interesting
> short-hand. I guess next time I want to hurl an epithet my girlfriend's way, I'll
> just call her "abrasive." Do you have any ideas what code word she might want to
> use when she wants to call me a "rotten goy" -- maybe, "polite"? How about
> "non-abrasive?" (I can see it now: "How could you forget that today was my
> birthday, you,..you,..non-abrasive person!")
I prefer mayonnaise-on-white-bread-sandwich eater.
-Jessica
Philip Ayers
> Philip Ayers wrote:
> > Ruby-
> > You are paronoid!
> > I'm southern from redneck roots. I married a Yankee and
> > all my friends are Jewish except one, the guy who pumps my septic tank.
> > Southerns are a lot of things but I've never known one to disparage God's
> > own people.
>
> apparently the problem with southerners is they pretend not to know what
> goes on in their own backyard? but wait a second, you were just kidding.
Nobody 's pretending ifoufo........only thing wez knows is we hungry for
bar-b-q..
> > Heck.. when a Southern Baptist thinks about converting to
> > another religion it's usually to Judism.
>
> a day without philip is like a day without sunshine.
I try to be positive..........except when the Brady Bunch is here.
> > Com'on Ruby, where's that
> > northern Jewish sense of fairness,?
>
> i don't think ruby's from the north, either.
Oh well if she ain't then I guess that was my mistake. Gez Ruby let's talk
more.
> > wez just po white trasH look'n fer a home.
> > The word "abrasive" said by a "southener" could imply many things, and out
> > of the mouth of a carpetbagging episcople, "Jew from Brooklyn" could mean
> > "abrasive"...
>
> so the difference is a yankee will let you know his bigotry but us poor
> white trash ain't even aware of it?
Yep...that's just about right....I mean they don't got a "program" like
uh....Pat Buttcanon or Hitler. ..Days jest want some fried fish and
hush-puppies.
snip something below...... just to dense for my sensiblity, and man... I'm
trying to get some ditches dug.
Chris Clemmons
DOL...@prodigy.net wrote:
I thought that's one of the qualities you libs were supposed to have in
> abundance (kinda like you used to be known for your passionate belief in freedom of
> speech, before you started writing all those campus speech codes)...
Who are you calling "you," labelmaker? CAC
Philip Ayers
This is good information for the "Grady Bunch" FAQ.....I hope this detail
wasn't overlooked in the upcoming _The Grady Bunch for Dummies_.
Philip "Wiping Egg from My Face" Ayers
Karen Mann
ad by Tom Joyner? In it he calls Glen Lang abrasive and takes several quotes
from the Indy to prove his assertion. If I remember correctly (and if *I*
can't, not many people can) the article was actually rather positive. I have
no reason to follow any Cary races, but I did think it was an interesting ad
(a semi-slanderous rant by a private individual against a candidate), and I
can't wait to read Todd's take on it. I don't listen to much AM radio. Is
Joyner still on the air? If so, why didn't he just use his show to express
his anti-Lang sentiment?
Karen
SPOOKY5 wrote in message <19991026140034...@ng-fx1.aol.com>...
><< Ruby-
> You are paronoid! >>
>
>
>I wrote that, not Ruby. I'm not calling southerners prejudiced, I referred
>specifically to a journalistic shorthand I perceive often in the South, in
>journalism. A shorthand that describes a clash with the traditional,
patient,
>Southern gentility and the role of a woman as a passive citizen.
>
>Discrimination against Jews exists everywhere, even in the south. It
sounds
>like the people you spend your time with are all very nice and open minded
>though. Congratulations.
>
James Hepler
Philip Ayers wrote:
> Philip "Wiping Egg from My Face" Ayers
Oh, that's egg?
James Hepler
--
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease" -3.2.3
grady
become such an apparent hot-button. I assume it has a lot to do with
Bill's theories about anti-carpetbaggerism (I'd have to side with Phil
et al in saying that I think it's northeasterners in general, rather
than Jews in particular, who are the target of most southern accusations
of "abrasiveness").
I mean, shit, when did it become such a huge sin (and, more to the
point, when did it become particularly germane to the political process)
to be perceived as "abrasive" in the first place? I understand the whole
glad-handing & baby-kissing aspect of American political life, but has
the flipside always gotten as much play? Is this just a nasty collision
between the fad of negative campaigning and the personality-centric
nature of late 20th century politics?
Kruse? Any other political historians out there? Has "abrasive" always
been a hot code-word & I've just missed it?
Ross
--
------> http://metalab.unc.edu/ch-scene <------
the alt.music.chapel-hill guide to the triangle
--> "like sick cats running over hot coals" <--
Philip Ayers
> What I don't understand is how this whole "abrasive" code-word has
> become such an apparent hot-button. I assume it has a lot to do with
> Bill's theories about anti-carpetbaggerism (I'd have to side with Phil
> et al in saying that I think it's northeasterners in general, rather
> than Jews in particular, who are the target of most southern accusations
> of "abrasiveness").
>
> I mean, shit, when did it become such a huge sin (and, more to the
> point, when did it become particularly germane to the political process)
> to be perceived as "abrasive" in the first place? I understand the whole
> glad-handing & baby-kissing aspect of American political life, but has
> the flipside always gotten as much play? Is this just a nasty collision
> between the fad of negative campaigning and the personality-centric
> nature of late 20th century politics?
Actually, Ruby,... being a woman, is expected to speak with certain
limitations in mainstream southern political culture. A lot of men, but
Southerners in particular, (both sexes) don't like "strong tongued" women
because that is considered unfeminine" which translates roughly =;<() into
"abrasive". I think you overlook the slight anti-feminist current these
days, at least in mainstream Amerika, probably something to do with
Hillery.
If a woman is pointed in her conversations, she is assumed to be angry,
most likely angry at men, and that kind of anger isn't something that is
particularly attractive these days to the "regular" folks out there.....of
course there are exceptions even in the south. But the "General Rule"
rules. In the south, as soon as any woman makes a strong political point
in a public forum, the image that comes to mind, is of a diatribing, both
fist shaking, coming at cha with a knife, throwing a fit, feminist
politico.
The same qualities in a man are no big deal. Men may fight but women had
better "turn the other cheek".
P1Ayers
SPOOKY5
> et al in saying that I think it's northeasterners in general >>
I didn't have any theories about carpetbaggerism. I wrote that when I read the
word abrasive describing a woman in the south I think it's usually a
journalistic shorthand to describe a northern jewish woman. I was surprised to
read the term used in the Indepenndent because its such a Jesse Helms style
descriptor. Oblique enough to keep the writer blameless, but common enough to
have an understood meaning by much of the public.
Philip Ayers
(SPOOKY5) wrote:
For what it worth, I think p1Ayers made the "carpetbagger" comment.