A bad situation gone bad.
Philip Ayers
now sure you were right....right to fear that the Iraqi people would
choose sadaam over us, especially after the war started. Bush has now
created a situation in Iraq that maybe even more difficult than Vietnam.
After 30 years of unconditional support of Israel..and indifference to
Israels desire for Greater Israel, we have made our beds. It's ironic
that in the name of fighting terrorism we have created optimal
conditions for endless terror. This is extremely depressing that our
leaders are so stupid. We now have created a situation for ourselves in
the arab world that reflects perfectly Israel's relationship with the
westbank and gaza. Even if we had done nothing to sadaam..assuming the
premise Bush bases this war on were correct, and sadaam were able to
develope an atomic bomb and give it to some terrorist organazation and
they were able to exploit it, I believe that would be less of a disaster
than what we now face. We have exhausted all our political capital in
the arab world.
G Neal
"Philip Ayers" <p.a...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3E8306DD...@rcn.com...
> Even if you were totally against this war from the beginning, you are
> now sure you were right....right to fear that the Iraqi people would
> choose sadaam over us, especially after the war started. Bush has now
> created a situation in Iraq that maybe even more difficult than Vietnam.
> After 30 years of unconditional support of Israel..and indifference to
> Israels desire for Greater Israel, we have made our beds. It's ironic
> that in the name of fighting terrorism we have created optimal
> conditions for endless terror. This is extremely depressing that our
I agree with you absolutely. But what does this say about the people who put
the people in power in power?
Chris Rossi
Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court?
rossi
mel
I'm old enough to remember Vietnam and know young men who were drafted into that hell. This thing has all of the same earmarks.
Mad as Hell Mel
Mike Oxblood
" mel" <m...@pressgangrocks.com> wrote in message
news:20030327120...@pressgangrocks.com...
> Right on Rossi - this man may not even be our elected president, right? We
live in a country where >
>
into that hell. This thing has all of the same earmarks.
>
over it. Gore had every advantage going into the election and then blew it
by running a campaign that was just too far left of center to win. Add in
that he is such a pompous and sanctimonious ass who was paying people to
tell him to wear short sleeve shirts in an effort to appear more "human"
that it's no wonder he didn't win. Gore was like a football team that was a
3 touchdown favorite in the Super Bowl and then lost in the end on a
controversial call. If he had half a brain he wouldn't have even been in
that position.
>Why should we be surprised that that individual and his cabinet care
nothing about representing the >wishes of the people
Ya know, something like 70% of the people support the war so you ought to
say he doesn't support *your* wishes.
DJ Sad
From: "Mike Oxblood" <Mike.O...@yahoo.com>
>What a crock! You "he didn't even win the election" types just need to get
>over it. Gore had every advantage going into the election and then blew it
>by running a campaign that was just too far left of center to win. Add in
>that he is such a pompous and sanctimonious ass who was paying people to
>tell him to wear short sleeve shirts in an effort to appear more "human"
>that it's no wonder he didn't win. Gore was like a football team that was a
>3 touchdown favorite in the Super Bowl and then lost in the end on a
>controversial call. If he had half a brain he wouldn't have even been in
>that position.
Whoa partner, I'm no fan of Gore but a better metaphor would be that Bush won on a three pointer with the buzzer already having gone off. And then, his brother was referee. That Gore might have been ahead or the favorite doesn't take away from the fact that he was ripped off. Oops, forgot you're just trying to incite. My bad.
>nothing about representing the >wishes of the people
>
>Ya know, something like 70% of the people support the war so you ought to
>say he doesn't support *your* wishes.
Where are your links?
Todd always has links.
I want to see what questions were asked to get this result.
And when it was asked.
MOD
____________________________________________________________
Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service!
Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/
Holden Richards
> >say he doesn't support *your* wishes.
>
I found this article on the poll numbers at americannewsreel.com very
interesting.
h.
------------------
What price war?
By DOUG THOMPSON
Mar 28, 2003, 06:03
Email this article
Printer friendly page
New polls show 70 percent of Americans support the war with Iraq but
that support is, as pollsters like to say, a mile wide and an inch
deep. That means it wouldn’t take much to turn public opinion in
this country against the war and send George W. Bush’s political
future into the crapper.
American optimism, strong when the war began last week, dropped
dramatically in recent days. Pollster John Zogby points to a
“squishy middle that could fluctuate, depending on what happens
on the ground.”
To make matters worse, even if America wins the war in Iraq, it faces
increasing hostility and hatred in the Middle East. Zogby says Arab
hatred of the U.S. is at an all time high. Last month, Andrew Kohut,
director of the Pew Research Center, warned that the clear
unpopularity in the Middle East of an Iraq war "can only further fuel
hostilities - almost no matter how well such a war goes."
“War,” General George S. Patton once said, “breeds
war.” Now that America has crossed the line between defensive
action and pre-emptive strikes, who’s next?
It takes little imagination to dream up other scenarios that might
call for pre-emptive military action," says Thomas Donnelly, a
military analyst at the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington
think tank that has led the charge for war against Iraq.
"Even after Mr. Hussein is gone, other tyrannies, such as North Korea
and Iran, will continue to threaten world peace," said Max Boot, a
scholar at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.
And Bush makes it clear he has no qualms about striking first.
“As a matter of common sense and self-defense, America will act
against ... emerging threats before they are fully formed," the
president said last year.
But while Bush may see America’s military role as more proactive
in the coming years, it is not yet clear if the public supports such a
policy. The same polls that show 70 percent of Americans supporting
the war also shows growing uneasiness with aggressive moves against
other countries.
Antiwar voices in this country are at their strongest level since
Vietnam and appear to be growing. Anti-American sentiment abroad
remains high.
Bush's risky strategy threatens far more than just his political
future.
© Copyright 2003 American Newsreel
pootie poot
> Whoa partner, I'm no fan of Gore but a better metaphor would be that Bush
> won on a three pointer with the buzzer already having gone off.
close but not quite. when the votes were counted, Bush had more votes
than gore. so while bush may have made a 3 pointer after the buzzer
went off, he was already leading by a point.
poopie poop
pootie poot wrote:
> close but not quite. when the votes were counted,
> Bush had more votes
> than gore. so while bush may have made a 3 pointer
> after the buzzer
> went off, he was already leading by a point.
right again! you showed em poot! go team!
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com
3.2.3
> close but not quite. when the votes were counted, Bush had more votes
> than gore.
not even quite close, poot.
Al Gore (Democrat) 50,999,897 48.38%
George W. Bush (Republican) 50,456,002 47.87%
these are the official certified results:
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/prespop.htm
by a difference of over half a million votes over bush, al gore got more
votes than any other candidate for any elected office in american
history. that's how stupid and lazy he was.
you might try fantasy football.
i apologize for feeding the animals.
3
Mike Oxblood
I guess Gore's high-priced consultants didn't tell him that it helps when
you win your own state in an election.
"3.2.3" <ifo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3E84BB5C...@yahoo.com...
grady
stumble across alt.music.chapel-hill and choose to lose their UseNet
Virginity with us. Can't you all just feel the love in the room? It's
good to know that we still have a much-deserved reputation as gentlefolk
for whom inexperience is not a turnoff, and who'll at least pretend to
promise to still respect newbies in the morning.
xoxox
Ross
marc faris
> I guess Gore's high-priced consultants didn't tell him that it helps when
> you win your own state in an election.
yeah! and like totally on the tax-payer's dollar! not like our "elected"
"leader"'s bargain-rate, um, non-consultants.
marc
Mike Oxblood
i prefer to call it "dissent"
"grady" <gr...@ibiblio.org> wrote in message
news:3E84CB1F...@ibiblio.org...
Todd Morman
steamed at being ignored, but only for a second.
todd cowardly pieces of shit all of 'em thank god for email filters morman
3.2.3
> Ever heard of the "electoral college"?
nope. never heard of it. totally off our radar. never been discussed
here before.
i think i did hear some high-priced consultants telling him he should've
paid more attention to nc, though, since only the popular vote counts.
very cynical, those consultants.
the key is more limes. with more limes, that half gallon would've been
so gone. forsooth, but no. i had to go and bring more ice. ice that
today rolls around amoeba-like in an unopened plastic bag in my cooler.
an amoeba on which i spent my last green dollar. alas and alack.
3
Duncan Murrell
http://pub206.ezboard.com/finsidecarolinafrm6
Post over there! They love newbies! Make sure to say you have some
"really good, solid inside information regarding Matt Doherty's
status," which you can't reveal upon pain of death. They love that!
d
gr...@ibiblio.org
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author%3Amike.oxblood%40yahoo.com
xoxox
Ross
p.s. Mikey, the election was in 2000. When are you sore ______s gonna get over it & move on?
Mike Olonschmelz
"Todd Morman" <tmo...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:EHEGJCIMGBFEJBKNEC...@nc.rr.com...
3.2.3
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author%3Amike.oxblood%40yahoo.com
already did that.
actually, there's not a last name of oxblood in any phone book in the
united states.
maybe she's canadian.
3
Phaedra Kelly
pk
>i prefer to call it "dissent"
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Phaedra Kelly
pk
>i prefer to call it "dissent"
>
_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Todd Morman
Ooh, ya got me, pootie. We're being ignored, that's the ticket. You're such
a fool. You've never seen a pro-war bounce before? What, are you three years
old?
Now try coming up with a single logical argument that a massive u.s.
invasion/bombing/occupation is a smarter option than helping the Iraqi
people overthrow Saddam themselves.
Just one will do.
todd what a fucking idiot no wonder he doesn't want to use his real name
morman
blandings dunman
c'mon guys.
alt.fan.porkys.
duh!
Mike Olonschmelz
"Phaedra Kelly" <bluef...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BAY2-F22cZCif...@hotmail.com...
Mike Olonschmelz
"Todd Morman" <tmo...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:EHEGJCIMGBFEJBKNEC...@nc.rr.com...
nice mouth, "todd". we're all really impressed by the salty talk i can tell
you.
and just how would the Iraqui people overthrow Saddam? a candlelight vigil?
blocking traffic and office buildings? peaceful permitted marches?
Phaedra Kelly
pk
>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:01:15 -0500
_________________________________________________________________
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5er (martin)
--- "3.2.3" <ifo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> the key is more limes. with more limes, that half
> gallon would've been
> so gone. forsooth, but no. i had to go and bring
> more ice. ice that
> today rolls around amoeba-like in an unopened
> plastic bag in my cooler.
> an amoeba on which i spent my last green dollar.
> alas and alack.
mmmmmm....MOJITO!!
the muddler in 2004.
-5er
=====
"I have always been a romantic, one of those people who believes that a woman in pink circus tights holds all the secrets of the world." - Tom Robbins
poopie poop
> > Sorta like the anti-war movement? HAHAHAHA
>
> Ooh, ya got me, pootie.
i am pootie!
i am pootie!
spartacus!
poopie poop
> when all else fails, blame it on "newbie" behavior.
> classic.
>
> i prefer to call it "dissent"
you are old and wise. i love you.
poopie poop
> and just how would the Iraqui people overthrow
> Saddam? a candlelight vigil?
> blocking traffic and office buildings? peaceful
> permitted marches?
what would the iriquois people do? o the unity!
dmccall
sentiment elsewhere.
--
Dana McCall
Raleigh, NC
"Philip Ayers" <p.a...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:3E8306DD...@rcn.com...
> Even if you were totally against this war from the beginning, you are
> now sure you were right....right to fear that the Iraqi people would
> choose sadaam over us, especially after the war started. Bush has now
> created a situation in Iraq that maybe even more difficult than Vietnam.
> After 30 years of unconditional support of Israel..and indifference to
> Israels desire for Greater Israel, we have made our beds. It's ironic
> that in the name of fighting terrorism we have created optimal
> conditions for endless terror. This is extremely depressing that our
> leaders are so stupid. We now have created a situation for ourselves in
> the arab world that reflects perfectly Israel's relationship with the
> westbank and gaza. Even if we had done nothing to sadaam..assuming the
> premise Bush bases this war on were correct, and sadaam were able to
> develope an atomic bomb and give it to some terrorist organazation and
> they were able to exploit it, I believe that would be less of a disaster
> than what we now face. We have exhausted all our political capital in
> the arab world.
>
Mikal Onic
"dmccall" <dmc...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:yoGha.9532$Pk6.5...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Davidson Deac
> Even if you were totally against this war from the beginning, you are
> now sure you were right....right to fear that the Iraqi people would
> choose sadaam over us, especially after the war started. Bush has now
> created a situation in Iraq that maybe even more difficult than Vietnam.
> After 30 years of unconditional support of Israel..and indifference to
> Israels desire for Greater Israel, we have made our beds. It's ironic
> that in the name of fighting terrorism we have created optimal
> conditions for endless terror. This is extremely depressing that our
> leaders are so stupid. We now have created a situation for ourselves in
> the arab world that reflects perfectly Israel's relationship with the
> westbank and gaza. Even if we had done nothing to sadaam..assuming the
> premise Bush bases this war on were correct, and sadaam were able to
> develope an atomic bomb and give it to some terrorist organazation and
> they were able to exploit it, I believe that would be less of a disaster
> than what we now face. We have exhausted all our political capital in
> the arab world.
Well, I can say one thing about Bush. He is a damn site smarter than
you are.
First of all, Bush hardly created the situation in Iraq. The primary
creator of the situation is Iraq is Saddam Hussein. This is a man who
has killed an estimated 100,000 of his own people in the 20 plus years
he has been in power. And before you try to blame the US, we in no
way shape or form assisted his rise to power. We did make some
mistaken moves regarding Iraq in the 80's but he was firmly entrenched
as the Iraqi version of Stalin prior to any of that. Our biggest
mistake was thinking that we could make a deal with the devil. But
the Russians, French, British and yes the US, all played a part in the
current situation. The French and Russians of course played the
biggest role. Ninety nine percent of his weapons and training came
from those two nations. But US presidents from FDR through Clinton
all played a part in the current mess.
So you think that Al Qaeda having a nuclear weapon is less of a
disaster than the current situation in Iraq. A situation in which the
US military is completely destroying the Iraqi military, and putting
and end to a brutal dicatorship. You cannot be serious can you? I
would hope that my tax dollars that go towards UNCCH are not being
wasted that badly.
As far as expending all of our political capital in the middle east,
that is hardly true. I actually lived in the middle east for a while,
so I feel that I know a little about the situation. Its true that we
are not very popular their right now. But we have not been real
popular there for a long time. Actually, from my experience, although
the people are generally friendly, they are not all that fond of
outsiders anyway. When I was in Bahrain, the locals had quite a bit
of dislike for Filipinas, Sri Lankans, and other infidels who were
working menial jobs in Bahrain that the locals would not do
themselves. However, if you notice, the US military is actually HQ in
Doha and Bahrain, by permission of those governments. The F-15s that
took out the Fedayeen hq flew from a Saudi base, the Egyptians have
not stopped us from using the Suez Canal, and we are still using bases
in Oman and UAE. It seems to me that those governments are supporting
us. Oh and we are getting a little support from Kuwait as well.
Seems they don't much care for Saddam for some reason. Being invaded,
having your women raped, and your men taken off to never be heard from
again will do that to a nation. These nations want Saddam gone just
as much as we do, but they cannot come out and admit it because their
population spends to much time listening to Mullahs rail against the
infidel. A few years after we beat Saddam and get our troops out of
Saudi Arabia, the situation will calm down some.
The alternative to taking out Saddam was to leave our troops in place
in Saudi for years in some new kind of cold war. And it was the
presence of those troops in the Muslim holy land that caused 9/11, not
our relationship with Israel. We have supported Israel for many years
with no terror attacks against us. But we move our troops into the
holy land and the terror attacks start. We must defeat Saddam,
stabilize Iraq, and then get the heck out. That is the only way to
end the terror attacks agains the US.
Philip Ayers
right wing rednecks and thought police know that you can't blame the
state of NC for anything I do. It's a free country...I hope???. So...
George Bush IS playing GOD. That's my point.
You've said nothing below. .. but who cares what I think? I'm just
amazed at how many people "think" like you.
By the way-
My brother in law was Ambassador to Bahrain in the Regan
administration, and my sister in law was Director of the American
Cultural Center in Cairo in the 1990s.
5er (martin)
i feel like weeping.
-5er
Robert Shaw
> ##note. I don't live in NC. I don't attend UNC-CH. ....just letting you
> right wing rednecks and thought police know that you can't blame the
> state of NC for anything I do. It's a free country...I hope???. So...
>
In this context, "right wing redneck" is an incredibly derogatory
term. I would just like to post my hope that discussions at the least
remain focused on substance and not inconsiderate namecalling. These
questions are hard enough without throwing disrespect into the mix.
the_m...@mojito.org
>
> mmmmmm....MOJITO!!
>
> the muddler in 2004.
>
> -5er
>
i will not run if nominated, i will not serve if elected.
Philip Ayers
"redneckish". I However..please accept my apologies and I will only
use the "right wing" description from now on. Please forgive me.
Robert Shaw
> "redneckish". I However..please accept my apologies and I will only
> use the "right wing" description from now on. Please forgive me.
(I did read the other post) No prob man, sometimes we don't realize
what our words mean to others' ears :)
Philip Ayers
..now it's time for my injections.
Davidson Deac
not belong to any political party, and so far, I am less than enamored
with Mr. Bush. But on the Iraq issue, I basically agree with his
actions. After 12 years of watching Saddam play cat and mouse, I
don't feel we had any other choice. I don't agree with several other
areas of the current administrations policy.
But, you made statements that have no basis in fact. For example, how
could you possibly know that we have "used up all of our political
capital" in the middle east, especially when it is obvious that most
middle eastern governments are still cooperating with us?
Personally, I believe you have the right to think whatever you want
to. And I have the right to think that you are a obstinate
close-minded fool, just like your counterparts on the Right-wing side.
Philip Ayers <p.a...@peacebrook.info> wrote in message news:<ABA35592-6330-11D7...@peacebrook.info>...
Philip Ayers
governments, as most rule in a totally ruthless and corrupt manner.
Actually even though Sadaam is a relatively repressive, Iraq was one
of the more "progressive" governments before the gulf war. Woman for
example had more rights in Iraq than most other arab countries and
higher education was free even for study in the USA.
But make no mistake our troubles in the middle east will not go away
until we deal fairly toward the Palestinians. Right now to every arab
we are "Israel"! And as far as my Israeli friends know there is NO ONE
coming down the pike who has a New Idea. Sharon is the new Israel,
thanks to the poor palestinian leadership. So George Bush's long term
tactics as reflected by the invasion of Iraq seems doomed. It's seen as
a Sharonist tactic by most arabs.
I hope it works out, but I don't see why it would change minds in the
arab world. It's likely to cause even more hatred towards us and more
terrorism. But we actually lost credibility LONG ago by looking the
other way while all the settlements we being constructed and arab land
was taken for horrible reasons.