Look Who Came to Dinner
R
disturbance than I should admit to, yesterday's Peace
Rally outside of the John Edwards fundraiser dinner
was my first taste of organized public disturbance.
Well worth the effort I thought...though I had no
noisemaker and my voice was toast, but I pumped my
fist a lot. It's always fun to call out the
Democratic Party for deserting it's constituents. My
favorite poster was "Jacques Chirac for President
'04".
And of course leave it to the N&O to print a
rather exaggerated photo of the event. Out of the
whole rally there was like a two second span where the
cops decided to switch barricades or something (maybe
they were re-routing the entrance for the party
attendees) and so they hurriedly replaced one giant
bike rack with another type of steal barricade, and
the N&O photo captured that one second making it look
as if the cops and the crowd were clashing or
something...good job N&O. You just couldn't show any
photos of all the little kids in attendance or me
rubbing up against 5er.
Rawls
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5er (martin)
WTVD11's coverage last night. talk about your
embellishments. the woman made it sound like a riot
almost broke out. ridiculous. overall i thought
things were pretty tame.
whatever "disturbances" that there might have been
(that i witnessed at least) were at best brief and at
most minor. overall i'd say it was mildly "rowdy", but
most folks were very well behaved. there was one shot
on the channel 11 of a policeman shoving the camera
man out of the way, and i saw a lot more of
that than any shoving/confrontations with protesters.
overall i thought the police were very tolerant.
and nice. "excuse me sir, could you please move onto
the sidewalk and out of the street. would hate for you
to get hit by a car."
of course, in true fashion whenever someone tried to
stir up the most minor thing, the cameras swooped down
like vultures.
whatever.
i enjoyed myself. felt good about it.
and i am not a regular of the protest movement.
a nice mix of people from all walks of life which was
encouraging.
and it was good to see some of you there.
-5er
Todd Morman
and 5er. I missed the immediate precipitator, but the crowd was *definitely*
shoving and straining to push the barricades and cops aside, in a way that
struck me as just this side of violent.
I was about 10-12 feet away, and I remember seeing the looks on the faces of
two nearby cops (one woman, one man), thinking to myself, "Watch out; this
could easily escalate into something you'd prefer to be farther away from."
The cops looked pretty worried and were struggling hard to put the gates in
place against some pretty aggressive shoving from the crowd. Once the gates
were locked down, things defused noticeably, but I'm not sure that dozens of
protesters running into the building would have been a desirable outcome at
that moment.
Maybe it would. But I'm not sure. Anyway, the shoving seemed like a totally
unnecessary move on the crowd's part (the back-up strategy that arose
instead seemed to work fine, you know?).
> overall i thought the police were very tolerant. and nice.
Yeah, that was my experience, too, although I did hear one or two reports
early on of intimidating threats of arrest some of the RPD higher-ups were
making to some of the organizers.
todd I'm this close to writing a letter to the N&O thanking the cops for
their restraint and hard work anyway morman
gr...@ibiblio.org
>todd I'm this close to writing a letter to the N&O thanking the cops for
>their restraint and hard work anyway morman
You should totally do that.
When is the last time most of us thanked a cop for doing anything? Sure, it's fun to front like they're The Man, always trying to harsh yr mellow & bust up your good time. But mostly they're doing really thankless stuff like filling out reports when some jackass rear-ends you on the way to work, or filling out more reports when somebody breaks into your house/car, or directing traffic for 8 hours when ice knocks out all the power lines, or responding to domestic-violence calls, or checking out the street after some creepy guy rings your doorbell at 11:30 p.m. trying to "sell you a toaster oven" or something else that he just stole from your neighbor.
Or any one of 100 other things, both minor and major, which make yr life safer.
One of the things the Raleigh police do more than some departments (since it's the state capital) is to police protests & demonstrations. I haven't been to many in Raleigh, but at the ones I've been to, the cops have by and large been *really* cool and professional. Too many people our age have these images in our heads of protests-turned-violent, of cops hauling people off or using nightsticks & clubs to push people around. So we go to protests *expecting* that to happen, and that expectation causes some people to be actively hostile to the cops, most often for no real reason. Even in those situations (as at the Edwards protest the other day, apparently), the Raleigh cops seem to have the discipline to keep things from escalating.
So yes, please, thank them. They don't get thanked nearly as often now as they probably did in the '50s, say, but their jobs are almost certainly *way* harder now than they were 50 years ago.
Ross a good time to thank them is at the rally itself Grady
Phaedra Kelly
blowing. I think what freaked the cops out more was how we basically
circled the building. Every place where someone could unobtrusively enter
the building, there were protestors drumming and chanting.
So I'm with Todd on this one--there were a few moments when things coulda
turned downright violent.
But I really didn't like the barricades, and I can understand why you would
push against them--I mean, you felt like you were in a prison behind those
things. I understand the need to keep sidewalk open, but the fact is that I
have a constitutional right to be on that sidewalk. I mean, jeez, they
coulda at least had the barricades closer in--it was pretty hard to not end
up in the street, what with all the people.
pk
>todd I'm this close to writing a letter to the N&O thanking the cops for
>their restraint and hard work anyway morman
>
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Ruby Sinreich
>> todd I'm this close to writing a letter to the N&O thanking the cops for
>> their restraint and hard work anyway morman
I was right there when this happened. The cops were very calm, true. But
in many of their faces throughout the evening I saw a look that said "go
ahead, make my day." (I'm not making this up, I have pictures.) The
episode of blocking off the driveway happened after two demonstrators
(including the Rev. Curtis Gatewood) who had raised $100 from the crowd to
get in, were denied entry by the event staff (a handful of aspiring West
Wing interns). Somehow it was the cops who were face to face arguing with
the guys trying to go in, instead of the staffers. I have to wonder who
they're working for.
So then the cops weren't just exchanging the barrier for another one, they
were purposefully pushing back the protesters who had been in the driveway
trying to get their representatives in to the dinner which we paid for.
On a related note (below), apparently civically engaged folks have more free
speech rights than panhandlers regardless of their repugnant opinions. I
think we should organize a homeless march.
= Ruby
<http://herald-sun.com/orange/10-334825.html>
Police ready to protect marchers
By Beth Velliquette, The Herald-Sun
March 24, 2003 7:57 pm
CHAPEL HILL -- No matter whether someone wants to demonstrate for or against
the war, the chief of the Chapel Hill Police Department has pledged that his
officers will provide protection for the demonstrators.
"This town has a history of being a place where people can voice their
opinions," Chief Gregg Jarvies said. "Our philosophy is to allow people, no
matter what their viewpoint, to have their forum."
If demonstrators get into the streets, the police officers are told to
provide protection for them from cars and others who may have opposing
viewpoints, Jarvies said.
"We have two choices: Arrest them, which some cities have done, or ... do
what we do during a basketball situation," he said. "If the groups or
individuals are causing chaos, then we take law enforcement actions, but so
far the groups that have protested have been cooperative and orderly."
Residents have both agreed and disagreed with the departmentąs philosophy.
Jarvies has received telephone calls and e-mails thanking him for protecting
the demonstrators, and ones criticizing him for allowing them to take over
the streets and block traffic.
"Itąs about 50-50," he said.
Police have been trying to handle demonstrations the same way they handle
post-game street celebrations.
Rather than fighting with people who want to take over the streets, to
celebrate basketball victories or to demonstrate for or against the war, the
department temporarily closes the street and allows the people to do their
thing. Officers concentrate on safeguarding people and property.
Because the police are experienced in handling crowds after big UNC
basketball victories and on Halloween night, theyąve only needed to receive
a little extra training in dealing with demonstrators, Jarvies said.
"Weąve done some training within the last two weeks to talk about civil
disobedience and demonstrations," he said.
No matter their views about the demonstrations, officers have to put aside
their own feelings, Jarvies said.
"We donąt listen to what theyąre saying, and we donąt make our decisions
based on what theyąre saying," the chief said.
Last Friday, the Police Department ended up protecting people on both sides
of the Iraq issue who were marching about a block apart.
Jarvies recalled that back in the early 1980s, officers were required to
provide protection for the Ku Klux Klan when it marched through town. Some
of the officers assigned to the detail were black and had to endure the
marchersą derogatory comments, Jarvies said.
Jarvies remembers seeing those black officers staring straight ahead,
remaining professional no matter what people said to them.
"What weąre doing is protecting the rights of all the people," he said.
"Whether the officers agree or disagree, our job is to make sure that people
have the right to say it and not be attacked for saying it."
Although many people have demonstrated against the war, Jarvies says heąs
hasnąt heard anyone say they donąt support the troops.
To be prepared for any type of event, all on-duty officers, detectives
included, have to wear their uniforms, Jarvies said. Other officers in
Orange County also are prepared to head to Chapel Hill if theyąre needed for
help.
Orange Countyąs government has prepared for problems stemming from the war
in Iraq. Last week, the emergency management staff met with law enforcement
officials to prepare for activation of the countyąs emergency operations
center, should it be needed.
"We do that routinely as part of our multihazard planning," said Nick
Waters, director of Orange Countyąs emergency management department.
The idea is to prepare those people who would be first to respond to some
type of terrorist attack, "to make sure weąre on the same sheet of music,"
Waters said.
The Orange County Sheriffąs Department has also told deputies and residents
to be on the lookout for problems. On its Web site, the sheriffąs office
instructs residents to call 911 if they see something suspicious.
A deputy will check out any report. "I think it would be good to check it
out," Sheriff Lindy Pendergrass said. "If itąs nothing, it will make them
feel a little bit better."
Deputies have also been assigned to check utility stations and water
supplies regularly to make sure no one is tampering with them, Pendergrass
said.
URL for this article: http://herald-sun.com/orange/10-334825.html
--
Ruby Sinreich ru...@lotusmedia.org http://lotusmedia.org/blog
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal
that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr
Chris Rossi
war started march. The march was not at all organized and people would
arrive at one place, and then decide where to go next. So no permits to
march from x to y or anything like that. More just a group of lunatics
going wherever. The cops simply followed the group whereever it went,
politely blocked off and/or directed traffic and attempted to negotiate
compromises between marchers and motor vehicles where it made sense. I
saw some pissed off motorists and even one or two protesters going out
of their way to antagonize them. (As pissed as I am, instigating
potentially violent confrontations with the man on the street doesn't
seem like the answer.) But the cops seemed very patient and simply
followed everybody around facilitating their free passage through the
streets.
Of course, a lot of cop behavior is probably based in large part on who
is giving their orders. Fascist police chiefs have a tendency to have
fascists police departments. We live in or near a town with an openly
gay mayor that declared itself a Patriot-Act free zone. And the same
night as the march there was a CH town meeting about threats to civil
liberties under bushco. I think the fact that there are atypical people
in positions of leadership in these parts helps a lot.
rossi
rossi
bendy
> When is the last time most of us thanked a cop for doing anything?
> Sure, it's fun to front like they're The Man, always trying to harsh
> yr mellow & bust up your good time. But mostly they're doing really
> thankless stuff like filling out reports when some jackass rear-ends
> you on the way to work, or filling out more reports when somebody
> breaks into your house/car, or directing traffic for 8 hours when ice
> knocks out all the power lines, or responding to domestic-violence
> calls, or checking out the street after some creepy guy rings your
> doorbell at 11:30 p.m. trying to "sell you a toaster oven" or
> something else that he just stole from your neighbor.
If anything is going to get us out of this mess, it's big Government.
Thankfully, we've got such a vast government, the top of the pyramid
can't dictate control over the whole thing. It's the civil servants,
mid-level analysts, and lieutenants who can be the whistle blowers.
bendy
blandings dunman
i've almost NEVER had an experience with the police that didn't involve
them trying to belittle me in some way or fashion--"what's the matter,
boy?! don't they have stop signs in west virginia?"--bullshit like that.
almost never.
Chris Rossi
which is why i was impressed with the chapel hill demo. almost all of
my personal interactions with police have been bad and have involved
being accused of crimes i did not commit and not getting arrested only
for lack of evidence. because i didn't do it! back when i had long
hair it was mostly cops thinking i was a drug dealer or a smack addict.
when i cut my hair i thought they'd start treating me like a
respectable citizen. then the durham cops almost arrested me for
breaking into my own house. i'm not sure the durham cops would handle a
demo as well as the ch cops, btw.
rossi
grady
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I can't remember the last time I had an
unpleasant run-in with The Man. Even the cops who pull me over for
speeding are really nice.
This is not to say that cops aren't mean to other people--of course they
are. But I think they can smell fear like dogs, and they react to it.
I've finally started getting over my fear of cops & I try to smile &
wave at them.
It goes without saying that as a middle-class white male, I'm far less
likely to get hassled by The Man than a lot of other people, and I'm
well aware of that fact. But it still can't hurt to be nice to the vast
majority of cops whom you see who *aren't* actively giving you a hard
time. Sure, the one who pulls you over might be an ass. But how do you
react to the one who's standing outside the Harris Teeter on a break, or
the one who pulls up next to you in traffic, or the one who's policing a
protest march or the one who's directing traffic when the power is out?
It's a really complicated feedback loop, you know? If we didn't recoil
in fear from the ones we see around town, maybe fewer of them would be
asses when we break the law.
Ross
3.2.3
> It's the civil servants,
> mid-level analysts, and lieutenants who can be the whistle blowers.
ruby is absolutely right to question who is protecting whom.
and bendy is absolutely right in pointing out the consequences of such
protection.
if a calcified society's service infrastructure seeks to reign in the
people it claims to service, the society will remain calicified and
people reigned in.
only when the service infrastructure realizes its proper allegiance can
people reign themselves. that's what's so incredibly wrong about the
patriot act's anti-whistleblower provisions.
as long as cops protect pay for access to government dinners, there will
be pay for access to goverment dinners and no other access.
so before anybody goes thanking anybody, think about who's protecting
whom.
and i'm with blandings. no cop has ever helped me when i needed help and
i've never been anything but hassled by cops despite my strict policy to
always give them rapid compliance and wide berth.
so until edwards can't go out in public without being confronted by his
constituents, i'm not thanking anybody, thank you.
3
blandings dunman
>
> That's because you live in Durham.
maybe. i used to get pulled over a lot when i lived in carrboro, why i
can't even begin to tell you, other than maybe because i am a very
careful driver and use a lot of turn signals and stuff like that. they
say that's a good way to get pulled over late at night. can't remember
if they were nice or not. one did give my car the white glove treatment
and found nothing to complain about, then brushed some leaves off the
area of the windshield over the inspection sticker and said in a huff
"you need to keep that visible" and walked off.
another pulled me over and checked my license and papers, etc, and then
let me go. never said why i was pulled over. a few blocks later i
realized one of my headlights was out. thanks for the warning!
>
> Maybe I've just been lucky, but I can't remember the last time I had an
> unpleasant run-in with The Man. Even the cops who pull me over for
> speeding are really nice.
you speed? do you *know* how much gasoline that wastes? shame, shame..
>
> This is not to say that cops aren't mean to other people--of course they
> are. But I think they can smell fear like dogs, and they react to it.
> I've finally started getting over my fear of cops & I try to smile &
> wave at them.
we've only met once, and that was a long time ago. but if you knew me
you'd know that i am almost always as pleasant as i can be to almost
anyone. really.
>
> It goes without saying that as a middle-class white male, I'm far less
> likely to get hassled by The Man than a lot of other people, and I'm
> well aware of that fact. But it still can't hurt to be nice to the vast
> majority of cops whom you see who *aren't* actively giving you a hard
> time. Sure, the one who pulls you over might be an ass. But how do you
> react to the one who's standing outside the Harris Teeter on a break, or
> the one who pulls up next to you in traffic, or the one who's policing a
> protest march or the one who's directing traffic when the power is out?
politely. i give them the same courtesy i would extend to anyone.
>
> It's a really complicated feedback loop, you know? If we didn't recoil
> in fear from the ones we see around town, maybe fewer of them would be
> asses when we break the law.
>
perhaps. and perhaps power has a strange effect on people. and stress.
i don't know.
grady
to be way more stressful than being a Chapel Hill or even Raleigh cop.
I don't know what to say about the Carrboro cops--I used to live on the
same block as the police station & all the cops I met were really nice.
Maybe you just have "the look" about you. Ya longhaired hippie.
OTOH, I'm totally with Ruby when she addresses the irony of the Chapel
Hill cops stating that they'll go out of their way to protect freedom of
speech, regardless of message (unless that message is "can you spare any
change"). But again, the issue is less with the cops than with the City
Council and the Chamber of Commerce.
Although I know one argument against additional anti-panhandling
ordinances is that there isn't enough enforcement of the existing laws,
and not enough cops in downtown Chapel Hill. I hope those folks asking
for more cops in downtown will smile & wave at them, at least, if they
get deployed there ;-)
blandings dunman
>
> Well sure. Especially the stress, and god knows being a Durham cop has
> to be way more stressful than being a Chapel Hill or even Raleigh cop.
oh yeah. ALL those hours and hours hanging out at the blue light lookin'
at porno mags-stress city.!
:o
>
> I don't know what to say about the Carrboro cops--I used to live on the
> same block as the police station & all the cops I met were really nice.
> Maybe you just have "the look" about you. Ya longhaired hippie.
oh, come on! judge for yourself:
broadband: http://www.chriscalloway.org/radiopreacherbroad.rm
modem: http://www.chriscalloway.org/radiopreachermodem.rm
you dodged my query about speeding. what do you have to say for
yourself, citizen grady, hangdog lackey of the imperialists!
grady
tendencies.
It just rolled over 190,000 miles, too. I figure that even with all the
speeding, I've probably averaged just 45 miles per hour, which works out
to 4200 hours spent in the car, which is 176 24-hour days or 528 8-hour
workdays spent sitting in the damn thing.
However, if I'd dutifully minded all speed limits, my average would
probably be down closer to 35 mph, which works out to 5429 hours spent
in the car.
I think it goes without saying that I've devoted each and every one of
those 1229 hours saved to Fighting the Power.
xoxo
Ross
blandings dunman
>
> My car is 10 years old & still averages 30 mpg, even with my scofflaw
> tendencies.
>
> It just rolled over 190,000 miles, too. I figure that even with all the
> speeding, I've probably averaged just 45 miles per hour, which works out
> to 4200 hours spent in the car, which is 176 24-hour days or 528 8-hour
> workdays spent sitting in the damn thing.
>
> However, if I'd dutifully minded all speed limits, my average would
> probably be down closer to 35 mph, which works out to 5429 hours spent
> in the car.
>
> I think it goes without saying that I've devoted each and every one of
> those 1229 hours saved to Fighting the Power.
>
> xoxo
>
> Ross
a most excellent dodge, sir!
madame defarge has stopped her knitting--FOR NOW!