What do you think of this NG?
pa18 m
I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the threads.
I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even though I don't post
much. It seems to function very differently from other NG I go to. I want
to have your opinion on this.
Normally, a NG has two roles. The first one (and the Celine NG does it
really well) is to exchange information. The second is to give opionions
and debate about a subject (in this case, Celine).
On this NG, every time someone says something not 100% postive (other than
"Celine is a godess, I worship the ground she walks on"), that person is
deemed a troll and told by the self-apointed "NG police" (Mathieu, Patou,
Benoit) to go away. It seems that for some people, to be a fan means
thinking Celine does not have any flaws. They have the right to feel that
way. However, somebody who sees SOME negative aspects of Celine is no less
of a fan. To me,disagreeing about some things is necesary to have a
menaingful conversation. It seems that to SOME people on this NG (the ones
who are the most "vocal" ), a good NG should be totally monolithic. The
only disagreemenst tolerated are small and inconcequential stuff like not
liking Celine's makeup in a certain television appearance. I'm not saying
we sould not talk about Celine's makeup. I am saying it sould not be all we
talk about. What do you think?
On another thread, I said that Celine has a fantastic voice and a touching
personnality but I think she does not have enough "substance". I was told
by Benoit to go away and warned to shut up before he translates my comments
in Englsih and further diminish my credibility. Do you think that someone
who says a negative thing (along with postive things and in a long message
where he explains his position) has no credibility? In his replies (he did
it two times), Benoit purposely erased the part where I say that I love
Celine's voice and personnality. He only left the part where I say she
doest't have enough "substance". Therefore, that makes me looke like a
troll. To me, that's bad journalism and a violation of nettiquette. Yet he
accuses me of not knowing nettiquette for crtitiquing his behavior. He also
accused me of being ignorant of Quebec's history or I would not criticize
Celine. I found that comment very offensive. As a society, our history is
something to be proud of. To accuse somebody of not knowing it and discard
his comments is a very big insult. It is like saying his voice is not
worthy to be heard. I was offended by it. I made the mistake to mention
that I have a masters in history. I admit it was a mistake to talk about
it. Now I am labeled has an arrogant scholar who knows what is written in
books but hasn't lived life.
Before I go on, I admit that I made the mistake to react to Benoit's
personal attacks maybe a little too fervently. I was a little rude. But
that was after I said on opinion respectfully and was attacked by him only
on the basis that he disagrees with me. I mention it because I'm sure that
when he sees this mesage, his fisrt reaction will be to try to discredit me.
I admit that I violated netiquette by beimg disrepectful after he attacked
me.
THE GOAL OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT TO SOLVE THE CONFLICT BENOIT AND I HAVE. It
is more to have your general opinion on the subject of debating and on the
direction this NG has taken. If you want to debate about what I said about
Celine, we'll do it on a different thread.
The experiemce I had in the past couple of days makes me think that debating
is not possible on this NG. However, only Benoit and Lidia participated in
the debate. (Lidia even kind of backed off when I explained myself.). I
made an effort to write this post in english to include everyone who missed
my previous posts.
So let's start the debate.
Do you think it is OK to disagree about stuff?
Do you WANT to debate?
What do you think of the way people who have different opinions are treated
on this NG? I can't remember what exactly was the problem, but I seem to
remember Anna Pakman being abused some time ago. Didier Icart also started
by coming of as a Celine fan who is simply not a "hardcore" one. He
questionned some litlle things. He was then attacked by people and became
frustrated (by the NG, not Celine). To get back at Mathieu, Benoit and
Patou, he then started trolling and left. That is my assessment of things.
Do you think it is fair?
Please respond toughtfully to my post. If you disagree with me, say things
other than "if you are not happy, just leave".
I just want to say that I don't want to attack Mathieu, Patou and Benoit
(even though I have a conflict with him). They bring a lot of factual
information to this NG. I give them credit for it. I only want to know is
the general perception on the NG is in line with theirs or if there are
silent people who accept people disagreeing with Mathieu, Patou and Benoit.
I know Mathieu is not here right now. I hope Patou still is and will
respond (respectfully, this is not an attck). The reason why I chose to air
this post NOW is only because of what happened yesterday.
Celine Fanatic
You wrote a very strong message. I think that most of the things you said were
true on a general view. People have become controlling and demanding on this
NG. Also, they have become very ignorant and offensive. That is all I'll say.
I am 'All the Way' for Celine,
and I am the Celine Fanatic!
Docnoid
If a Celine fan has a different opinion, some people do enjoy attacking even in
groups of two or three people.
In my opionion, this belligerent attitude, which appears too often, has
greatly affected the quality of Celine Dion discussion here.
That's what I think...since you asked.
JanR
Take a look at "The Celine Screen" :
http://members.aol.com/Docnoid/index.html
Marc Dery
and paid 140$ (on a college student budget) to buy a pair of tickets to see
her perform last year in Montreal at the Molson Centre. After the show, I
went to this NG and talked about it. I said that I had a really great time
overall but that I did not like the Beegees medley (to me that group should
get out of the collective consciousness) and that I also thought that
Celine's onstage presence lacked a little bit of grace. I had seen Celine a
long time ago in a smaller venue. I said that maybe the fact that she keeps
making BIG moves was because the arena is so huge. I never said that
Celine's personnality was not gracious, just that her stage presence could
be more gracious. I felt that she doesn't have to hit het chest and that
king of thing. That was my opinion. I knew that not everyone would agree
but I did not feel like I was putting Celine down by saying it. It was just
the way I felt (and still do). Boy oh boy! People jumped all over me. On
the NG and on my private e-mail.
After that I stopped posting messages but still came to the newsgroup to get
Celine news. I live in Montreal. I don't buy the Journal de Montreal or
the 7 jours or the Lundi. But when I see on the newsgroup there is an
article about Celine in it, I can go to my neighberhood's newsstand and buy
the paper.
I am very happy to see your message. It is nice to see I am not the only
one who is a fan but not a fanatic who cannot stomach any criticism about
Celine. I understand the behavior of those people though. Like I said, I
am a college graduate student. A lot of the people I hang out with are a
little bit elitist and don't like Celine. When they come to my place and
see my CD collection, they go : Radiohead=cool, Massive Attack=All right,
Flaming Lips=It rocks, Celine=what the hell are you doing with that?.
Personnally, I don't care what they think. But I can undestand how somebody
might get frustrated to hear unkind comments about their favorite artists.
In Quebec, Celine is the biggest star there is. But it is probably the
worst place to be a fan. Elsewhere, people who don't like her just don't
care about her and her fans can enjoy her in peace. Over here, she is
totally omnipresent. She is a goddess in the "popular" mass-circulation
media but in the more "serious" outlets (Voir, la radio de Radio-Canada),
people kind of laugh about her and look down on her fans. It is possible to
get pissed off by that . If I were, I would think of this newsgroup as a
sort of safe haven and would be less tolerant of the people who have a bad
opinion.
To get back to the opinion you aired about Celine. I agree with you. The
way I view your opinion (it got a little confusing after Benoit's comments)
is that you have nothing against the fact that Celine is our national icon.
What you don't like is the fact that we seem to feel an unhelathy need to
look for national icons and to cherish and protect them. I understand your
views. Go look for a reply on your original debate in your original thread.
Take care. Don't worry about the way you were treated...
Marc
pa18 m <pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZA874.1855$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
Che Lee Murphy
like. Personally, I have had no problems with this newsgroup in the 6 or more
months that I've been reading & posting in it...
Obviously there are some problems here.. I was a member of the Destin mailing
list, but I got pretty tired of their attitude, and that my messages were
sometimes ignored and not posted at all ... some of the people also on that
list thought that they were an authority on Celine, there was also too much
talk about politics , and certain people on the list insited on airing their
opinions on every word that you wrote.
It was a very tedious group and I'm pretty glad to be out, I accept that I'm a
Céline fanatic, (not "THE" Celine fanatic!) although I love to hear people's
opinions, such as the recent post by Kevin Wright on Céline's current
appearance. I certainly don't believe Céline is perfect, although personally, I
don't really bother talking about her flaws often - and sometimes I don't want
to look in depth at things as that can make my life seem very meaningless and I
become scared of becoming infatuated with Celine to the point of existing for
her as if she were a god.
I love to read posts, and things which reinforce the fact that Céline is a
human being who has problems and dilemas just like us....
So please don't stop posting people - Don't be scared of what everyone will
think
No one is in charge of this group, and those who attack people who critise
Céline from time to time - Please rethink.
We want all fans to feel welcome here, whether casual listeners or the
Fanatics.
Take care all,
Ché
(Remove the angel from my address to reply.)
My website, Celine Dion.... On ne change pas
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
http://listen.to/celineangel
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Docnoid
I enjoyed reading your posted thoughts...very articulate and honest.
Lycka
>
> I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the threads.
> I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even though I don't
post
> much. It seems to function very differently from other NG I go to. I
want
> to have your opinion on this.
Dear whoever,
( We still do not know your first name, so I can't do better than that
)
I think you can be a fan of Céline without having to agree on everything she
does. It seems quite obvious.
there will always be some 'police' to monitor the various postings, this is
part of the Newsgroup world.
I once remember, oh years ago, saying that I was fed up with Céline talking
about her family all the time in her US interviews.... Some people resented
that immensely, and did not accept my opinion whatsoever and it degenerated
into a royal mess. Some of these people even have the guts to answer your
letter and play the little role of past victims.... The point is there
will always be someone to disagree with what you had to say.
I personnally saw nothing wrong with what you wrote, myself. Totally
innofensive.
But when you are trying to make Didier Icart look like he is a fan, I have
to disagree. He has been here for one reason only, and that was to create a
situation that would make him the center of all the attention. The easiest
thing would be to ignore these trolls, but it is so difficult to resist!
As for your various tastes in music, i applaud someone who can love Céline,
Massive attack and other genres at the same time: I am certainly one of
them :)
A lot of fans of Céline are hoping that when and if she comes back, that
there will be a little more substance to her material. She has THE voice.
If only she can utilise it to achieve even greater artistic output, i would
be thrilled.
So, keep posting your ideas, and do not mind if someone writes back to haunt
you. That is the name of the game. Innofensive if you know how to deal
with it.
Pierre
Patou
pa18 m <pa...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
ZA874.1855$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
> Hi,
>
> I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the threads.
> I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even though I don't
post
> much. It seems to function very differently from other NG I go to. I
want
> to have your opinion on this.
>
> Normally, a NG has two roles. The first one (and the Celine NG does it
> really well) is to exchange information. The second is to give opionions
> and debate about a subject (in this case, Celine).
>
> On this NG, every time someone says something not 100% postive (other than
> "Celine is a godess, I worship the ground she walks on"), that person is
> deemed a troll and told by the self-apointed "NG police" (Mathieu, Patou,
> Benoit) to go away.
No, I think you're wrong for this. I accept negative point for Celine.
Sometimes, I have negatives points to say against Céline.I know she is not
perfect. I read you posts and French and for some point I agree with you
(but you don't know because I didn't answer at all for your posts). The
person wich I have serious dificulty here is Didier Icar for one reason :
instead the told us he's a fan of Celine he never say some positive thing.
Each thread is to say : Tickets for Celine is too expensive, why she didn't
give an interview and Mcarey and RMartin have gave one? Or I can take
seriously the Quebecer accent...and more If he can tell sometimes positiv
point it's ok it's not the same thing..you understand? Did I ever tell you
to go away? Never.
It seems that for some people, to be a fan means
> thinking Celine does not have any flaws. They have the right to feel that
> way. However, somebody who sees SOME negative aspects of Celine is no
less
> of a fan. To me,disagreeing about some things is necesary to have a
> menaingful conversation.
I agree
It seems that to SOME people on this NG (the ones
> who are the most "vocal" ), a good NG should be totally monolithic. The
> only disagreemenst tolerated are small and inconcequential stuff like not
> liking Celine's makeup in a certain television appearance. I'm not saying
> we sould not talk about Celine's makeup. I am saying it sould not be all
we
> talk about. What do you think?
>
Yes
> On another thread, I said that Celine has a fantastic voice and a touching
> personnality but I think she does not have enough "substance". I was told
> by Benoit to go away and warned to shut up before he translates my
comments
> in Englsih and further diminish my credibility. Do you think that someone
> who says a negative thing (along with postive things and in a long message
> where he explains his position) has no credibility?
No
In his replies (he did
> it two times), Benoit purposely erased the part where I say that I love
> Celine's voice and personnality. He only left the part where I say she
> doest't have enough "substance". Therefore, that makes me looke like a
> troll.
You're not a troll
For this, I'm not agree for Icart. Maybe he likes Celine ok. But one thing
I'm sure it's he came here to always said negative things against Celine.
And he told me he likes that kind of debate. If I could see is a serious
person before, I could understand his critiq, but since he came here he was
always negative.
Patricia *for who it's hard writing in English but she make an effort :-))*
He went here
He was then attacked by people and became
> frustrated (by the NG, not Celine). To get back at Mathieu, Benoit and
> Patou, he then started trolling and left. That is my assessment of
things.
he's first sentence her was when we were talking about Celine who was
narrating a Quebec Tv serie and he told : it just a quebecer who can take
seriously an accent like this"..Do you think it started the debate in a god
way? He always search provocations. Anyway...
> Do you think it is fair?
>
> Please respond toughtfully to my post. If you disagree with me, say
things
> other than "if you are not happy, just leave".
>
> I just want to say that I don't want to attack Mathieu, Patou and Benoit
> (even though I have a conflict with him). They bring a lot of factual
> information to this NG. I give them credit for it.
Thank you :-) I appreciated your post too
Doodling
Benoit, Patou, and Mathieu (is that how it's spelled?) on certain parts
as well. I've looked at both sides of the story and I have some kind
of general picture. For one thing, I personally believe that yes, we
ought to put what we think, whether good or bad. We should be able to
express our thoughts. The United States constitution attempts to give
everyone the freedom of speech.
On the part about open debates though, I disagree with you. For one
thing, have you ever been to the Mariah Carey NG? Do you have any idea
how violent it is over there? Debates rage and fowl language flies all
over the place. Also, people get insulted left and right. Mariah fans
say "Celine sucks! and her music is terrible". Celine fans turn around
and say "Mariah sucks......". Do you understand what I'm saying?
Those debates usually lead to hurt feelings and the discussion goes
nowhere. Also, a discussion is different from a debate. Discussions
are in a polite friendly manner. You speak and respect others'
feelings. In debates, you go head-on and put all your opinions out,
whether they'll hurt others or not. I can say from experience that
debates lead to "verbal" violence. If you visit the Mariah Carey NG
you will see what I mean. I don't want to see that happen in the
Celine NG. I like it this way. Peaceful, calm, and friendly. I want
the friendly atmosphere to stay. Just as long as we're not dictated to
only positive comments though. We should set some kind of limit.
Negative comments are welcome, as long as they don't create heavy
controversy. Come to think of it, what I'm saying right now can be a
bit controversial.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
pa18 m
Patou, I am glad you are back and had the chance to read this. BTW, my
name is Pierre-Alexandre (I always forget to sign my posts...).
You are right you never were rude to me. I wrote my message while I was a
little angry at Benoit and I put your name in there only because the Mylene
Farmer thing was fresh in my mind. Don't take it as an assault. It was not.
Words are sometimes more powerful than we think...
I am glad to see that people seem to generally agree with me. Not
necessarily with my opinion (les francophones peuvent aller voir le thread
intitulé "Celine given award by Sony for more than 100 million CD sold" si
vous voulez connaitre davantage mon opinion, ou du moins une partie de mon
opinion), but at least with the fact that it is OK not to agree every time.
I know I mentionned Didier Icart in my message. I have no idea how he
started to behave teh way he did. My view is that he started OK and then
said something controversial. He was attacked from many sides and then
seemed to take pleasure in making our lives miserable. So he sort of became
a troll I agree with you. I don't know how it happenned. I did not pay
that much attention to his postings.
Today, Didier e-mailed me saying that he agrees with me, that it is
impossible to have any discussion here. I invited him to RESPECTFULLY air
his opinion on this thread and tell us why he was behaving like this. Was it
to get back to some people on the NG he felt bad about?
He came to the NG today in a thread about ticket prices for the dec 31st
show. He first only asked why pay 800$ when the show is on TV for free. To
me that comment is not diffamatory (diffamatoire??). There is nothing wrong
with it. Then Benoit got on his case and said :
« tiens! t'es revenu toi? on commençait à s'habituer de ton
absence.....;-)))))Saches que les billets les plus chers sont à 499$ et les
moins chers à 69$!
Et pourquoi payer si ça passe à la télé? Bien voyons! Parce que c'est
Céline!!!! (faut vraiment tout t'expliquer, toi!!!) »
After that, Didier fired back.
Look, I don't want to become the NG police. Therefore I will stop
criticizing Benoit. I also don't know Didier and don't want to associate
with him. I just want to let people understand that sometimes our posts are
the results of thw way people treat us... I am not normally violent or mean
and I read my posts from yesterday. I was saying to Benoit some pretty mean
things, which is just not me. I therefore understand Didier in a way (or at
least I am willing to let him explain himself).
That's it. I will stop right there. I feel like a preacher...
Patou <pa...@globetrotter.qc.ca> wrote in message
news:sGe74.1877$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
Patou
> Hi,
>
> Patou, I am glad you are back and had the chance to read this. BTW, my
> name is Pierre-Alexandre (I always forget to sign my posts...).
>
Hi Pierre-Alexandre
> You are right you never were rude to me. I wrote my message while I was a
> little angry at Benoit and I put your name in there only because the
Mylene
> Farmer thing was fresh in my mind. Don't take it as an assault. It was
not.
> Words are sometimes more powerful than we think...
Ok because you talk about it I want to tell something that people ignore
here. Ok as you can see I don't answer to all attack against me from MF
newsgroup. It's hard, very hard. But I do this for the NG of Celine because
you don't have to be invade by them. It only concern me. First, I went there
just to read abour MF because I like her. But when I arrived I've seen some
bad things as you know against Celine. I was very poilte and I asked people
there Why they where like this With Celine...treat her like a caw ..one
wished to celine that dec 31 to have an attack and started her retirement
at the hospital...etc...so, I had ridiculous answer and I left for a day and
a half. I make te mistake to return just to read and I saw some so bad
things that It's not possible for me not answer. I always be polite and I
never start a thread. If people start a subject we have the right to answer
no? So, after that when people began to come on our NG to talk about Mylene
i didn't find it fair, because I never started a subject in their NG about
Celine and I was alone in their NG and now, douzen of person come here..So
for our NG I totally stopped to anwer to them provocation. And they came so
far that they called me lesbian, mongol, they find my website, take a
picture of one of my friend...posted a message in them NG with subjet who
want a picture of the lesbian....and some people anwer Me me me...ANd I
didn't anwer to it..it was after i left....they started to write in my
website (my website is about quebec and france , culture etc so it's not a
Celine subject or whatever)..so I closed my website...after that I received
plenty of message in my mailbox with insulte and tell me that they want me
come back to answer because it was funny...They accused me in the CD
newgroup still today 4 days after I left....and after that they find my
phone number..(yes they find it) and agressed me in the night....So what do
you think? And after people accused me...
Didier write always that kind of message..so people answer in the same way?
> After that, Didier fired back.
>
> Look, I don't want to become the NG police. Therefore I will stop
> criticizing Benoit. I also don't know Didier and don't want to associate
> with him. I just want to let people understand that sometimes our posts
are
> the results of thw way people treat us... I am not normally violent or
mean
> and I read my posts from yesterday. I was saying to Benoit some pretty
mean
> things, which is just not me. I therefore understand Didier in a way (or
at
> least I am willing to let him explain himself).
>
> That's it. I will stop right there. I feel like a preacher...
>
>
No no I found your post interesting
Patricia
ec
habite Montmagny, correct. Ca m'a marqué car j'ai fait mon secondaire a La
Pocatiere (J'ai dejà habité L'Islet). C'est plutot rare que je vois des
gens ou que j'entends parler de cette region... (J'ahbite à Montréal
maintenant).
Mylene Farmer est quand meme assez peu populaire au Quebec, du moins dans la
region de Montmagny (j'imagine). Les gens qui te harcèle sont assez colons
pour faire des appels longues distances à Monmagny au beau milieu de la nuit
(probablement de France)?
Fais-toi en pas. Ferme la sonnerie de ton telephone et laisse-les
t'insultyer sur ton repondeur. C'est eux qui vont devoir payer les frais de
longue distance... Décidément, on aura tout entendu...
Patou
ec <eric_ch...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
42h74.1898$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
> Quoi? Ils t'ont appelée chez toi? Corrige-moi si je me trompe mais tu
> habite Montmagny, correct. Ca m'a marqué car j'ai fait mon secondaire a
La
> Pocatiere (J'ai dejà habité L'Islet). C'est plutot rare que je vois des
> gens ou que j'entends parler de cette region... (J'ahbite à Montréal
> maintenant).
Oui j'habite Montmagny, de toute façon tout le monde le sait sur le NG de
Mylène ils l'ont dit à tout le monde suite à une visite sur notre site où je
parlais des attraits de la ville et de l'observation des oies blanches etc.
>
> Mylene Farmer est quand meme assez peu populaire au Quebec, du moins dans
la
> region de Montmagny (j'imagine). Les gens qui te harcèle sont assez
colons
> pour faire des appels longues distances à Monmagny au beau milieu de la
nuit
> (probablement de France)?
>
Tu vois, j'ai encaissé durant des jours sans rien dire et je me suis fait
accuser de tous les côtés sans que vous sachiez ce que j'endurais. Même toi
tu venais juste de dire que je me sentais utile en répliquant aux autres et
que tu avais honte de mon comportement..alors que moi je n'ai jamais dit de
choses déplacées envers eux et encore moins les attaquer dans leur vie
personnelle. Y'a quand même une marge entre discuter d'un sujet sur lequel
on est pas d'accord dans un NG et attaquer la vie personnelle des gens. J'ai
quitté leur NG depuis 4 jours et tout ce qu'ils veulent c'est que je
revienne?
> Fais-toi en pas. Ferme la sonnerie de ton telephone et laisse-les
> t'insultyer sur ton repondeur. C'est eux qui vont devoir payer les frais
de
> longue distance... Décidément, on aura tout entendu...
>
oui, décidement y'a des gens qui sont rendus vraiment très bas.
Patricia
Johnny412
>I felt that she doesn't have to hit het chest and that
>king of thing.
That's exactly the kind of thing that her fans love her for. She has her
special moves like hitting her chest, or doing that thing with her arms after
she hits the high note on all by myself, or that thing with her leg in "thats
the way it is", and she has a few moves in the power of love. That's the stuff
she's known for.
Michael Arkins
I must thank you pa18 m,
You have lightened this N.G Up.
I have been here for a good 9 months or so and I have enjoyed everyone's
posts.I have never been attacked by anyone for posting anything and I have
made what I consider friends in here.Familar names and so.
We all love Celine,Some are fanatics some are normal fan's and we all have
separate outlooks on Celine.
We should learn to respect everyone else's comments good or bad as this will
learn us more about Celine and her music.Celine is exactly like us in
everyway and in known for her Humbleness she has problem's like everyone of
us.No matter who you are everyone has problems and I think that if every
comment on this Newsgroup was all good about Celine there wouldnt be a point
in reading them as they would get boring.
One thing that I hate is seeing Celine fan's on this Newsgroup fight,Call we
weird but I think Celine's music has made us all better people by listening
to the words and stuff she's a great role model and we are exactly like her
in some ways.About Politics brought up in here is another Posting all
together.Were all people and were individuals not a Collective from a
Country.We speak for ourselves and for No one else.I remember I was in a
European Debate Newsgroup and a German Person was saying he Hated America.I
posted a message to him speaking for myself saying positive things about
America and he seeing my E-mail Addresses ending (.ie - Ireland) and started
to E-mail me everyday saying "Drunking Irish" - "Potatoe Country" and stuff
and I just laughed at these comment and Ignored him but back to the point we
should speak for ourselves and read other posts from people not the region.I
will admit I do get annoyed when people jeer Celine saying explicit things
about her like if you can remember GLDNGTER and Bluepolo16 they eventually
got Bored and left.
So to sum up this post I believe we should debate know and again on Celine
as it shows our points and makes the Newsgroup more interesting and we
shouldnt be afraid to say what we feel good or bad.
Thanks for Reading.
Michael Arkins,
Dublin City,Ireland.
Celine Fanatic
>
>>I felt that she doesn't have to hit het chest and that
>>king of thing.
Celine does that because when she sings, she becomes the character of the song.
And doing that creates emotion inside Celine, and that's a way to let the
emotion out. I also learned that those kind of moves are "Diva moves".
>That's exactly the kind of thing that her fans love her for. She has her
>special moves like hitting her chest, or doing that thing with her arms after
>she hits the high note on all by mysel
These are all Diva moves that make each singer different.
> That's the stuff
>she's known for.
Exactly.
Docnoid
>shouldnt be afraid to say what we feel >good or bad.
>Negative comments are welcome, as long as they don't create heavy
controversy. <<<<
In this newsgroup, the ideas (negative or not)of others are not tolerated well
at all. Someone is always ready to look for a wrong-doing that was intended or
even existed.
Many poster's here exaggerate, at the drop of hat, the ideas or words of others
to blow them entirely out of porportion ...looking for any excuse to pounce on
someone whenever they see the opportunity.
Just like a person did today in this thread.. one who has the gall to use this
newsgroup at his own "Celine store" for selling his goods...on a regular basis
is ready to pounce at the slightest opportunity to take a dig at someone.
There is very little sense of tolerence or fairness at this newsgroup at all.
Then when 3 or 4 people are attacking one person, it's really ridiculous.
Because of this, there is very little discussion of substance about Celine Dion
here at all.
The people who are like this.. ruined this newsgroup and continue to do so, in
my opinion.
It's just my own thoughts.
N2HeartsII
been away from the computer a while.
Here is what I have to say...
I love reading posts about Celine. Although I do NOT like reading negative
posts, and if I think it might be a negative comment, I won't click into it and
read it. I know she is not perfect. I know she is a human being. I want to
clarify what I consider a negative post....when someone says Celine looks like
a horse, or she is selfish and only giving money to charity (like the Columbine
concert) for selfish purposes, how ugly her nose is, how she can't speak
English properly..etc....those kinds of comments upset me. I have no problem
with someone saying they think she shouldn't hit her chest when she sings,
although to ME, that is one of the things I love about her so much, she gets so
into her songs, she is so emotional, I love it when she does things like
that,but that is me..MY opinion. And everyone has a right to post their
opinions, good or bad, but I think you have to think about this.....we are here
as Celine's fans...we want to talk about her, if you or me or anyone thinks
they want to say something negative about her, or if it mind offend someone,
and they get messages back that "attack" them, they have to take responsiblity
for those. They chose to make those comments that offended someone, they didn't
have to say it. I just choose not to read the hateful or hurtful remarks about
Celine, it doesn't change my love for her to read them, sometimes I do read
them, but it makes me angry at the person who wrote it because I want them to
love her as much as I do, and I know I will try to make them not think she is
selfish...etc...and it is a never ending battle. But this is a free board to
post whatever you feel like posting. I love finding out info on here, I have
learned so much, and I thought I WAS the biggest fan Celine had, but I found
more fans on here who knew more about her or her appearances than I did
lol...so I welcome it.
I find it extremely offensive when trolls get on here claiming they are going
to destroy this NG, and I appreciate Mathieu telling us how to report them.
Merci Beaucoup! I reported them, and they are no longer on here as far as I
know. WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND KEEP THIS A CELINE NG,not one that
bashes her like the trolls want to.
One post, the one where it was stated that Celine lip syncs her songs, that was
extremely hard for me to accept, but now I understand it, and know it sometimes
has to be done.It does not make her any less of a performer, in fact, she does
it so she can dance along with her songs and entertain us fans even more.
But on touchy subjects, the way they are said makes a BIG impact on how they
are taken. So I think that needs to be taken into consideration.
I have no idea what was said with you and the person you were "debating" with,
if it had to do with that M Farmer person, I have not read any of those posts,
nor do I care to. I have never heard of her, and I know I would get offended if
I read them and people were saying how so much better than Celine she was....so
I choose not to upset myself. Yes, I am very sensitive. lol
So I think we all have a right to post whatever we feel like posting. We take a
chance when we click into it on what we will find.But I also think we need to
really think about what we say and how we say it if we have to post a negative
comment, because us "die hard fans" as we are called, lol, take it
personally..maybe we shouldn't, but we do. And for the person who was harassed
by that other newsgroup, I am so sorry, that is horrible of them to do that to
you. I would just leave them and their newsgroup alone, for my own safety. I
love reading and posting here, and I too hope it remains a friendly NG :-)
Barbie
François Duchesne
ec a écrit dans le message <42h74.1898$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net>...
>Quoi? Ils t'ont appelée chez toi? Corrige-moi si je me trompe mais tu
>habite Montmagny, correct. Ca m'a marqué car j'ai fait mon secondaire a La
>Pocatiere (J'ai dejà habité L'Islet). C'est plutot rare que je vois des
>gens ou que j'entends parler de cette region... (J'ahbite à Montréal
>maintenant).
>
>Mylene Farmer est quand meme assez peu populaire au Quebec, du moins dans
la
>region de Montmagny (j'imagine). Les gens qui te harcèle sont assez colons
>pour faire des appels longues distances à Monmagny au beau milieu de la
nuit
>(probablement de France)?
>
Lycka
> Just like a person did today in this thread.. one who has the gall to use
this
> newsgroup at his own "Celine store" for selling his goods...on a regular
basis
> is ready to pounce at the slightest opportunity to take a dig at someone.
>
> There is very little sense of tolerence or fairness at this newsgroup at
all.
> Then when 3 or 4 people are attacking one person, it's really ridiculous.
You are so subtle :) Of course you must be referring to me, and not to the
countless others who posts material available by the truckload at the corner
store, to sell it on ebay to make the maximum money out of it. Magazines,
postcards for Cystic Fibrosis, you name it.
At least, give me some credit :)
I think there is nothing wrong with me selling my collection of rare stuff
and make it available to Céline fans. Rather than sell it via e-bay and try
to get the most of what I can. Like many people do here, without scruples,
so please, for the guilt trip, come again. I am not forcing anyone to buy
anything from me. And what I do sell are items deeply sought after by fans.
And I have helped many Céline fans along the way through the years and not
just by selling. So for your attempt at a guilt trip, you have focused on
the wrong person. My record is impecabble. Some fans are trying really
hard to get some stuff and I do believe that my prices are fair compared to
what some fan websites advertised.... .
As for the tolerance level in this newsgroup, you have done nothing to make
it better in the past, and a lot of us has not forgotten 'your ways'.....
But we shall not go there.....
Boy, there are countless rumors about people stealing stuff from other
Céline devoted websites, and shamelessly copying to thier own!
That is a task up to your standards, Janis! Do some Miss Marple research
and expose them! And I do not think that you would need to look very far for
the first one :)
Always a pleasure to discuss with you. The level of this newsgroup is
highly raised whenever you add new constructive ideas on it. Please, feel
free to enlighten us more.
Pierre
Patou
Patricia
Lycka <ly...@videotron.ca> a écrit dans le message :
mWq74.745$G07....@wagner.videotron.net...
Teresa
In article <ZA874.1855$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net>, "pa18 m"
<pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the
> threads. I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even
> though I don't post much. It seems to function very differently from
> other NG I go to. I want to have your opinion on this.
> Normally, a NG has two roles. The first one (and the Celine NG
> does it really well) is to exchange information. The second is to
> give opionions and debate about a subject (in this case, Celine).
> On this NG, every time someone says something not 100% postive
> (other than "Celine is a godess, I worship the ground she walks on"),
> that person is deemed a troll and told by the self-apointed "NG
> police" (Mathieu, Patou, Benoit) to go away. It seems that for some
> people, to be a fan means thinking Celine does not have any flaws.
> They have the right to feel that way. However, somebody who sees
> SOME negative aspects of Celine is no less of a fan. To me,
> disagreeing about some things is necesary to have a meaningful
> conversation. It seems that to SOME people on this NG (the ones who
> are the most "vocal" ), a good NG should be totally monolithic. The
> only disagreemenst tolerated are small and inconcequential stuff like
> not liking Celine's makeup in a certain television appearance. I'm
> not saying we sould not talk about Celine's makeup. I am saying it
> should not be all we talk about. What do you think?
I would disagree with you assessment. First of all, there are positive
discussions where there are some disagreeable things said about Céline.
However, the discussions digress when someone other than the three you
pointed out, brings something into the discussion that either isn't
relevant to the debate, or the people start talking about their mother.
There have been some excellent debates about Céline, positive and
negative, that haven't digressed. I'm afraid that you've seen only the
more "poor" of those discussions.
Secondly, there have been a number of trolls *true ones* who have come
in just to stir the mud and let it fling. After dealing with those
people for so long, I can understand their defensiveness.
Thirdly, not all of us in this forum think that Céline is a godess.
Far from. She is quite human, mortal, and far from perfect. That is
taken into consideration by most of us in here. However, for her music,
her personality, and work ethic, makes most of us in here appreciate
her as a person, not just a artist.
> On another thread, I said that Celine has a fantastic voice and a
touching personnality but I think she does not have enough
"substance". I was told by Benoit to go away and warned to shut up
before he translates my comments in Englsih and further diminish my
credibility. Do you think that someone who says a negative thing
(along with postive things and in a long message where he explains his
position) has no credibility?
The issue isn't the credibility, but how you said it. There have been
enough critics and trolls who have made the same comments for her whole
career. Those of us in here disagree. Céline's musical substance is
within the work she performs, as well as her French music. Since you
know another language, I would suggest listening to it, and see where
her substance appears.
I can see where you would question her "musical substance." It's tough
to appreciate someone who is positive in her music most of the time.
Life isn't always positive. But that is the appeal of Céline. Her
positive outlook on life.
How would you feel if she sang a "commerical single" similar in content
to Alanis Morissette's "You Oughta Know?" Would her credibility of her
be elevated, or diminished, because she sang something that wasn't
positive?
>In his replies (he did it two times), Benoit purposely erased the part
where I say that I love Celine's voice and personnality. He only left
the part where I say she doest't have enough "substance". Therefore,
that makes me look like a troll. To me, that's bad journalism and a
violation of nettiquette.
What Benoit is doing is a classical philosophical debate. Instead od
debating you on the whole issue, he is taking a little part, and in
essence, showing the flaw in the logic, and attempting to break down
your argument based on logic. I wouldn't take that personally; I would
do the same thing if I was doing a classical argument.
If you said something libelous about Céline, then you would be seen as
a troll and a tabloid journalist. However, in these forums, that is
really hard to do.
>Yet he accuses me of not knowing nettiquette for crtitiquing his
behavior. He also accused me of being ignorant of Quebec's history or
I would not criticize Celine. I found that comment very offensive. As
a society, our history is something to be proud of. To accuse somebody
of not knowing it and discard his comments is a very big insult. It is
like saying his voice is not worthy to be heard. I was offended by it.
I made the mistake to mention that I have a masters in history. I
admit it was a mistake to talk about it. Now I am labeled has an
arrogant scholar who knows what is written in books but hasn't lived
life.
Since I am not Qubecois, I won't jump into that debate, since I have
not lived it nor studied it.
> Before I go on, I admit that I made the mistake to react to Benoit's
personal attacks maybe a little too fervently. I was a little rude.
But that was after I said on opinion respectfully and was attacked by
him only on the basis that he disagrees with me. I mention it because
I'm sure that when he sees this mesage, his fisrt reaction will be to
try to discredit me. I admit that I violated netiquette by beimg
disrepectful after he attacked me.
> THE GOAL OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT TO SOLVE THE CONFLICT BENOIT AND I
HAVE. It is more to have your general opinion on the subject of
debating and on the direction this NG has taken. If you want to debate
about what I said about Celine, we'll do it on a different thread.
> The experiemce I had in the past couple of days makes me think
> that debating is not possible on this NG. However, only Benoit and
Lidia participated in the debate. (Lidia even kind of backed off when
I explained myself.). I made an effort to write this post in english
to include everyone who missed my previous posts.
> So let's start the debate.
> Do you think it is OK to disagree about stuff?
Absolutely, as long as no one's mother is involved.
> Do you WANT to debate?
Sure.
> What do you think of the way people who have different opinions
> are treated on this NG? I can't remember what exactly was the
> problem, but I seem to remember Anna Pakman being abused some time
ago. Didier Icart also started by coming of as a Celine fan who is
simply not a "hardcore" one. He questionned some little things. He
was then attacked by people and became frustrated (by the NG, not
Celine). To get back at Mathieu, Benoit and Patou, he then started
trolling and left. That is my assessment of things.
Do you think it is fair?
I caught part of that debate, and Didier digressed from debating Céline
and then brought into the debate the issue of her culture. (I think the
gist of his comment was that since she wasn't French, she was a
second-rate musician.) He also mentioned that since she didn't write
her own music and play an instrument that she wasn't an artist. She was
a singer. (I didn't get into this debate, since I can only read a
little French and use a translator to get the understanding of the
debate. I write even less.)
I would question the elitism of these statements, especially since
Didier said that he was a pianist. However, others were more adept at
writing French than I, and what I would have written would have been
lost in the translation.
Once the discussion leaves logic behind, and the statements of
someone's culture, heritige, and mother become involved, then the
debate is open, and the character attacks can begin.
Personally, I have no problem debating logocally. Where I do have a
problem is when someone makes a flawed statement, and then can not
accept when the argument is torn apart.
As a journalist, I celebrate the Freedom of Speech. I also support the
Freedom of Consequence, where if someone makes a statement I do not
agree with, I have the right to disagree in the same manner that they
did. Or, if the statement is so inflammatory and slanderous, then I can
either ignore them, since their credibility is lost, or report them to
a third party for trolling and libel.
> Please respond toughtfully to my post. If you disagree with me,
> say things other than "if you are not happy, just leave".
> I just want to say that I don't want to attack Mathieu, Patou and
> Benoit (even though I have a conflict with him). They bring a lot of
> factual information to this NG. I give them credit for it. I only
want to know is the general perception on the NG is in line with theirs
or if there are silent people who accept people disagreeing with
Mathieu, Patou and Benoit.
> I know Mathieu is not here right now. I hope Patou still is and
> will respond (respectfully, this is not an attck). The reason why I
> chose to air this post NOW is only because of what happened yesterday.
I, for one, will not tell you to leave. Healthy debate is always
appreciated. But slander is not.
Teresa
*it would be nice also if you used your name also. Makes debating a
little more personable*
Mo
This is strickly my opinion, and NOT the opinion of this news group.
I don't want to debate anything having to do with Celine Dion or anything
else for that matter!
I debate enough shit in real life, I turn to the news groups and e-lists for
entertainment, not arguments, not debates.
This news group has delt with a tremendous amount of trolls, who have been
disgusting, and irrevenet to human life, let alone their crude remarks
toward Celine Dion, that I think we're a bit gun shy when people start
expressing some negative views towards Celine. We've been troll free for
awhile now, except for all x-rated spam stuff. It's been nice.
I don't worship the ground Celine walks on, I don't idolize her.
I do like her music, her voice, alot.
She is a human being. She has faults, like all of us, we only see what her
press agents want us to see.
The bottom line is, we like her music, so why do we need to have
debates/arguments?
Why can't we just enjoy the music?
Happy Holidays.
Mo
rc...@my-deja.com
>However, somebody who sees SOME negative aspects of Celine is no less
> of a fan. To me,disagreeing about some things is necesary to have a
> menaingful conversation. It seems that to SOME people on this NG
(the ones > who are the most "vocal" ), a good NG should be totally
monolithic. The > only disagreemenst tolerated are small and
inconcequential stuff like not > liking Celine's makeup in a certain
television appearance. I'm not saying we sould not talk about Celine's
makeup. I am saying it sould not be all we talk about. What do you
think?
>
Since it never has good discussions, how would anyone know?
I was told by Benoit to go away and warned to shut up before he
translates my comments > in Englsih and further diminish my
credibility. Do you think that someone who says a negative thing
(along with postive things and in a long message where he explains his
position) has no credibility? In his replies (he did it two times),
Benoit purposely erased the part where I say that I love
> Celine's voice and personnality. He only left the part where I say
she doest't have enough "substance". Therefore, that makes me looke
>like a troll.
Welcome to Celine Dion's newsgroup!
>To me, that's bad journalism and a violation of nettiquette. Yet he
> accuses me of not knowing nettiquette for crtitiquing his behavior.
He also
> accused me of being ignorant of Quebec's history or I would not
criticize
> Celine. I found that comment very offensive. As a society, our
history is
> something to be proud of.
What the hell does Quebec's history or society have to do with Celine's
success as a singer?
I really don't understand why some fans think Celine Dion's career
success is a big part of Quebec, when it really isn't.
Celine's parents gave her the genes and encouraged music in her life.
Learning English and selling made her recognized by the world.
TITANICALLY!
It's as if some people don't understand the real reason for her
success. It wasn't because of history or where she was born at
all.
That seems too stupid to even consider. The voice, her record sales and
management was the biggest part of her success.
The real substance of Celine Dion shows in her sales numbers and
$$$income$$$ from those sales!
Yeah, Celine Dion is a good singer who made it big and that's what
matters the most.
--
Rich
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Connie
stuff he has that he wants to sell. I've bought from him before, some rather
rare things, the price was very reasonable, and the items were in great
condition when they got here. He's an honest fan, and there is nothing wrong
with him helping out collectors. He is in the right newsgroup for it, he is
not being unreasonable with his amount of posts, and his prices are not too
high. So whoever was complaining, get a life.
Connie
http://www.geocities.com/paris/maison/4606/celine.html
"I'll paint my mood in shades of blue, paint my soul to be with you..."
Docnoid
or whoever")...
...some very belligerent, hateful people (who seem to be unable to post
thoughts without personally attacking others)...brought specific names and a
personal vendetta into the discussion...obviously posting lies trying to
support their postion of hate..and making theirself look good. It seems their
main intention is to anger and attempt to discredit anyone else's thoughts in
this newsgroup.
What could possibly have been the reason for this?
It seems to be because they are filled with immature, excessive hatered and
hostiliy?
They just happen to choose this newsgroup to vent it..and some fans(through
exasperation) feel they need to reply. That gives the hateful, hostile person
his inspiration to post more words of anger and hate.
If you read carefully through the posted replies, you could see this clearly.
Most likely these people are immature, have no honor, a sense of fairness or a
productive life. So posting hostile, hateful words seem to fullfill a void that
they have within themselves.
I imagine it can and does become frustrating when you become tangled(even
unintentionally) within a web of hostility, hateful words and personal attacks.
That's where it usually ends with opposing opinions, especially when
dishonorable people bring blatant hostile lies into a discussion.
Patou
patricia
Docnoid <doc...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message :
19991220124045...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
Docnoid
>
>patricia
My posted reply was directed at the ......general topic(by 'pal18m')...about
the dishonorable way some people who visit this newsgroup and feel the need
to post untrue, hateful, hostile words through personal attacks.
I apologise if I clicked your name by mistake.
girl power
Just a reaction from a Celine-fan from Holland.
I have bought some rare items from Pierre and I was very happy
to find them. The prices were ok and the items always perfectly
shipped. There is very little old stuff for sale in Europe, so I was
pleased to be able to buy some items from him.
Also very reasonable prices, comparing to some websites I have visited
to search for special items !!
So I don't mind if he posts special items once in a while, for me an
opportunity to find something special !!
Marjolein.
Lycka <ly...@videotron.ca> schreef in berichtnieuws
Starb
several and varied topics. Some I have been to, some I have left (some
topics get very boring after a while) and those I stay with and in general,
I think this NG is reasonably well balanced.
Perhaps by the nature of the NG, you would and should expect favourable
notes, comments and topics about Celine - otherwise why even look for such
an NG. I general, I think you have to except that what people post is not
to specifically tell you to 'go away' as no one has that right (unless you
are really offensive) and so perhaps it's just the way they get a message
across, so take it for what it is - devotion and the reluctance of some to
except that Celine (love her to bits) is actually human and does
occasionally 'play some blinders' (a UK saying) in her performance and what
she may say or do.
Just my two pennarth!
--
Cheers
Starb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------<
> Lo fa, ne-ko shi-ma de vaja blade Bladerunner <
> ----------------------------------------------------------------<
> Hey, want a Mac accounts package? <
> Then why not visit www.astraaccounts.co.uk <
> and download your free copy of Astra now. <
pa18 m <pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
ZA874.1855$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
>Hi,
>
>I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the threads.
>I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even though I don't
post
>much. It seems to function very differently from other NG I go to. I want
>to have your opinion on this.
>
<SNIP>
Anna Pakman
Connie wrote in message <19991220113258...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
>I just want to say that I see nothing wrong with Pierre telling us what
Céline
>stuff he has that he wants to sell. I've bought from him before, some
rather
>rare things, the price was very reasonable, and the items were in great
>condition when they got here. He's an honest fan, and there is nothing
wrong
Anna Pakman
>This news group has delt with a tremendous amount of trolls, who have been
>disgusting, and irrevenet to human life, let alone their crude remarks
>toward Celine Dion, that I think we're a bit gun shy when people start
>expressing some negative views >towards Celine.
annoying because as soon as I see one I filter him/her and never read that
person's posts. Unfortunately I still have to read the non-troll replies ot
the troll.
>I don't worship the ground Celine walks on, I don't idolize her.
>I do like her music, her voice, alot.
>She is a human being. She has faults, like all of us, we only see what her
>press agents want us to see.
>
I agree.
>The bottom line is, we like her music, so why do we need to have
>debates/arguments?
>
This is a forum for discussion. I think as long as people act respectable
and talk to each other like humans a little debate never hurt anyone. We are
all different, with varying opinions.
>Why can't we just enjoy the music?
This forum would be soo boring if all we ever said was oh this song is nice
and that one too. I know Celine rules, I don't need to read it every second.
Heather
pa...@hotmail.com wrote on 12/19/99 12:30 PM:
> Hi,
>
> I am currently embroiled in a nasty fight in french in one of the threads.
> I have been coming to this NG for about six months, even though I don't post
> much. It seems to function very differently from other NG I go to. I want
> to have your opinion on this.
>
> Normally, a NG has two roles. The first one (and the Celine NG does it
> really well) is to exchange information. The second is to give opionions
> and debate about a subject (in this case, Celine).
>
> On this NG, every time someone says something not 100% postive (other than
> "Celine is a godess, I worship the ground she walks on"), that person is
> deemed a troll and told by the self-apointed "NG police" (Mathieu, Patou,
> Benoit) to go away. It seems that for some people, to be a fan means
> thinking Celine does not have any flaws. They have the right to feel that
> way. However, somebody who sees SOME negative aspects of Celine is no less
> of a fan. To me,disagreeing about some things is necesary to have a
> menaingful conversation. It seems that to SOME people on this NG (the ones
> who are the most "vocal" ), a good NG should be totally monolithic. The
> only disagreemenst tolerated are small and inconcequential stuff like not
> liking Celine's makeup in a certain television appearance. I'm not saying
> we sould not talk about Celine's makeup. I am saying it sould not be all we
> talk about. What do you think?
>
> On another thread, I said that Celine has a fantastic voice and a touching
> personnality but I think she does not have enough "substance". I was told
> by Benoit to go away and warned to shut up before he translates my comments
> in Englsih and further diminish my credibility. Do you think that someone
> who says a negative thing (along with postive things and in a long message
> where he explains his position) has no credibility? In his replies (he did
> it two times), Benoit purposely erased the part where I say that I love
> Celine's voice and personnality. He only left the part where I say she
> doest't have enough "substance". Therefore, that makes me looke like a
> troll. To me, that's bad journalism and a violation of nettiquette. Yet he
> accuses me of not knowing nettiquette for crtitiquing his behavior. He also
> accused me of being ignorant of Quebec's history or I would not criticize
> Celine. I found that comment very offensive. As a society, our history is
> something to be proud of. To accuse somebody of not knowing it and discard
> his comments is a very big insult. It is like saying his voice is not
> worthy to be heard. I was offended by it. I made the mistake to mention
> that I have a masters in history. I admit it was a mistake to talk about
> it. Now I am labeled has an arrogant scholar who knows what is written in
> books but hasn't lived life.
>
> Before I go on, I admit that I made the mistake to react to Benoit's
> personal attacks maybe a little too fervently. I was a little rude. But
> that was after I said on opinion respectfully and was attacked by him only
> on the basis that he disagrees with me. I mention it because I'm sure that
> when he sees this mesage, his fisrt reaction will be to try to discredit me.
> I admit that I violated netiquette by beimg disrepectful after he attacked
> me.
>
> THE GOAL OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT TO SOLVE THE CONFLICT BENOIT AND I HAVE. It
> is more to have your general opinion on the subject of debating and on the
> direction this NG has taken. If you want to debate about what I said about
> Celine, we'll do it on a different thread.
>
> The experiemce I had in the past couple of days makes me think that debating
> is not possible on this NG. However, only Benoit and Lidia participated in
> the debate. (Lidia even kind of backed off when I explained myself.). I
> made an effort to write this post in english to include everyone who missed
> my previous posts.
>
> So let's start the debate.
>
> Do you think it is OK to disagree about stuff?
>
> Do you WANT to debate?
>
> What do you think of the way people who have different opinions are treated
> on this NG? I can't remember what exactly was the problem, but I seem to
> remember Anna Pakman being abused some time ago. Didier Icart also started
> by coming of as a Celine fan who is simply not a "hardcore" one. He
> questionned some litlle things. He was then attacked by people and became
> frustrated (by the NG, not Celine). To get back at Mathieu, Benoit and
> Patou, he then started trolling and left. That is my assessment of things.
>
> Do you think it is fair?
>
> Please respond toughtfully to my post. If you disagree with me, say things
> other than "if you are not happy, just leave".
>
> I just want to say that I don't want to attack Mathieu, Patou and Benoit
> (even though I have a conflict with him). They bring a lot of factual
> information to this NG. I give them credit for it. I only want to know is
> the general perception on the NG is in line with theirs or if there are
> silent people who accept people disagreeing with Mathieu, Patou and Benoit.
> I know Mathieu is not here right now. I hope Patou still is and will
> respond (respectfully, this is not an attck). The reason why I chose to air
> this post NOW is only because of what happened yesterday.
>
>
I totally agree with you! I said I liked elvis's version of Cant help
falling in love and I was told that I was a stupid bit## and I did not know
what I was talking about by a certain person with AOL. That person knows who
they are. But I am not getting on that one again. I think People in this
newsgroup should be able to voice opinions without feeling like they are
stupid and without them being called a Bit## and all that crap. Sorry for
the foul words but I think We sould be able to say what we feel as long as
it really is not meant to be a bad post ie. Celine sleeps around or some
stupid thing like what Mr. plow has posted latley.
Heather
Heather
of us feel this way cant we try to do something about it.
N2HeartsII
him, but I am sure others have and are satisified with what they have. If he
has the merchandise, let him sell it to TRUE fans rather than someone who will
jack up the price just to make money off of us. No one is forcing you to buy
anything.
Docnoid
n2hea...@aol.com
Who are you posting about.. or to?
Since nobody really specifically named or accused anyone specifically of being
a regular spammer...selling products for a profit..that is, how do you know to
whom you are talking to or whom you are talking about?
You've ranted on and said ...what?
It's ok to spam if I want to buy from someone or whoever is selling here...not
trading...but selling to make a profit?
No one ever forces me to do anything...and especially not a lowly spammer in a
newsgroup...looking to make some profit on items.
There are always spammers and even incoherent, post's to sort through at
newsgroups...especially here.
: )
That's the way it is!
Take care,
Connie
recall naming any names besides Pierre, so you can close up the fort for
tonight. No need to get so defensive, dear :)
Docnoid
Thanks for taking the time to answer that simple question in such a respectful
manner.
Preschool does wonders for some people...and then again..maybe not!
:-)
Docnoid
I never really thought you were pointing at me, hon.
I was just wondering who and what you were talking about in your post..so I
replied.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post a respectful and thoughtful
reply...as usual...here at Celine's newsgroup!
I'm looking forward to reading all of your other thoughtful, informative post's
very much.
Take Care! :-)
Jan
Preschool does wonders for some, but when it's Christmas break..tiny minds and
fingers must play! - Po
Connie
Was this directed at me?
Sorry if I offended you with the original post, I really didn't mean to. I was
only responding to what Pierre said and defending him, and I didn't mean to
imply that you are the bad guy. I'm sorry you took it that way.
Docnoid
Goodness no!
Celine Dion fans who live in 'forts' or even 'glass houses' don't get offended
easy at this newsgroup.
>>Preschool does wonders for some people...and then again..maybe not!
>
>Was this directed at me? <
Heavens no!
It a little quote for the rude, hostile trolls to read and not respectful fans
who respond to one another..
Thank you for taking the time to reply..again.
Sincerely,
Jan
Oooooooo,
"I'll paint my mood in shades of pink,
just to read what you think." :-)
Lycka
I see that you have since last year, graduated from Copacabana's school of
sarcasm. That is a welcome change. That makes your post a little more
exciting, because frankly, in the past you have been so soporific.....
As for me and selling my stuff, this is none of your business whatsoever.
So please, go back to your knitting, and when you have something to say
about Céline, keep us posted :)
I know who I am, and I know what I am not. I know who you are and frankly,
I don't lile you, so avoid me. please... For the sake of this newsgroup,
that you constantly put down.
Pierre
Docnoid <doc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991220224152...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
> cdtou...@aol.comCeline (Connie)
> n2hea...@aol.com
>
> Who are you posting about.. or to?
> Since nobody really specifically named or accused anyone specifically of
being
> a regular spammer...selling products for a profit..that is, how do you
know to
> whom you are talking to or whom you are talking about?
>
> You've ranted on and said ...what?
>
> It's ok to spam if I want to buy from someone or whoever is selling
here...not
> trading...but selling to make a profit?
>
>
> No one ever forces me to do anything...and especially not a lowly spammer
in a
> newsgroup...looking to make some profit on items.
>
> There are always spammers and even incoherent, post's to sort through at
> newsgroups...especially here.
> : )
> That's the way it is!
>
> Take care,
>
Docnoid
"Marc Dery" marc_dery
Please continue reading the replies to this thread to find the answer to some
of your interesting questions and comments.
Some people who post here.. just keep proving, with untrue, hostile,
disrespectful post's..what their primary interest is here ..at Celine's
newsgroup.
That's is okay, though!
But, most people can't have serious discussion's with people who have this sort
of hostile, maligniing attitude.
Some are even disguised as so-called 'real Celine Fans' (fantrolls) who look
for the opportunity to malign other people because they are insecure and unable
to post their thoughts respectfully or intelligently about Celine or anything
else!
Merry Christmas
and
Peace on Earth to all of you!
Karin van Dijk
You are all sick, trying to put other people down by making sarcastic
comments.
STOP it, this is no longer funny.
Real fans????? No way.
CJ
pa18 m <pa...@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
ZA874.1855$r3.2...@news.globetrotter.net...
MTK 719
most part are positive. The regulars (old and new) are very nice people IMO. We
can agree to disagree without being hostile (in most cases) to each other.
I don't visit other NG's anymore because I found they are to offensive, and by
that I mean language, topics, and attacks on other artists. Much more that in
this NG. I like everyone who I know that posts here. We all vary in
personalities (some funny, some straight to the point, some are so full of
helpful info., etc.) I know I am one who looks a glass half full instead of
half empty. That is just the way I am and that is OK. I respect everyone's
opinion even though I don't alway agree as people don't agree with me, also.
Regards,
Peg
PS
We should all stick together through thick and thin.
girl power
I totally agree with Karin on this issue !!
Let us just be fans of Celine and normally discuss things as we always
did.. This is just awful
(
Marjolein.
Karin van Dijk <te...@karindyk.demon.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws 945801622.19058....@news.demon.nl...
Docnoid
>Peg
>PS
>We should all stick together through thick and thin.
Peg, do personally feel it's honorable or fair for some people to post hostile,
personal attacks on Celine fans who visit here...for absolutely no reason?
Who should stick together?
The hostile people posting hateful personal attacks and...'who' ?
You must have some sort of opinion, since you replied to this thread.. and you
were also the object of the same sort of hostile personal attacks.. with post's
here?
Merry Christmas
Rob + Jolanda
Ben het roerend met je eens
Karin van Dijk <te...@karindyk.demon.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
945801622.19058....@news.demon.nl...
rc...@my-deja.com
Christ how could I have missed this post!
This is one screwy ass funny newsgroup!
A big sissy named what -Pierre Lycka -picking fights and bitching gals
out!
What's the matter Pierre Lycka yer peanuts not big and salty enough to
pick fights with the guys?
Oh yeah I forgot this place is for Celine who has lots of fans like
that.
LMAO
Hey Pal18 when you going to answer some of these gay wad replies?
I'm getting bored!
In article <UCN74.1$325...@weber.videotron.net>,
"Lycka" <ly...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> Sweet Janis,
>
> I see that you have since last year, graduated from Copacabana's
school of
> sarcasm. That is a welcome change. That makes your post a little
more
> exciting, because frankly, in the past you have been so soporific.....
>
> As for me and selling my stuff, this is none of your business
whatsoever.
> So please, go back to your knitting, and when you have something to
say
> about Céline, keep us posted :)
>
> I know who I am, and I know what I am not. I know who you are and
frankly,
> I don't lile you, so avoid me. please... For the sake of this
newsgroup,
> that you constantly put down.
>
> Pierre
N2HeartsII
other? These are Celine's last days before she takes her wel- deserved
break....can't we find something else to talk about? Besides, "So this is
Christmas"
Barbie
rc...@my-deja.com
I heard pindick Pierre Lycka hangs in the mens room of Celine's
Nickel's deli singing All The Way.
It brings in little Celine boy fans every time.
Want a Celine CD little boy?
Lycka
> A big sissy named what -Pierre Lycka -picking fights and bitching gals
> out!
Now, who told you I was *big*? Now I am offended big time..... Coward :)
Pierre
Lycka
<rc...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:83qri0$od2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> I heard pindick Pierre Lycka hangs in the mens room of Celine's
> Nickel's deli singing All The Way.
> It brings in little Celine boy fans every time.
> Want a Celine CD little boy?
I am sorry for the Newsgroup who has to go through this once again. I
promised to end it there as far as I am concerned, do not worry. I am grown
up.
Sounds like Janis was not too happy with the lack of support of her theory -
me being a lowlife spammer- so she had to dig up old speeches from a year
ago, where she showed her contempt for the gay Céline fans. So perhaps she
commisionned a friend to come here to do her dirty business for her. Or
perhaps, it is an alter ego, as I can see her old style or prose here and
there. The fact remains that it is a very childish attempt at
discriminating me, and people around here are not stupid....
This is so typical of her..... So from now on 'Silence is gold'....
Silence from me of course :)
Pierre
Anna Pakman
Don't you have anything more interesting to do than bitch about people
selling things (who by the way are also regular posters who contribute a lot
to this newsgroup) or some other crap? If you don't like this NG why do you
bother coming here?
Docnoid wrote in message <19991221151955...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
Docnoid
If I have something to post, I will post it openly.
I knew you were nasty and rude, but this is way beyond even your usual
hostility.
If you don't stop posting my name all of the time with all your filthy lies,
I'm going to make a complaint to your ISP abuse.
I want nothing to do with you at all...and I have ignored you the best I can,
but you still harrass and flame me all of the time for no reason.
You are a very sick person Pierre.. and that rxan is too.
You deserve each other.
Karin van Dijk
When is this SHIT going to stop????????????????????????????????????
Is there nothing else you all can do, but pissing eachother off?????????????
Come on, get a grip on yourself, YES, ALL OF YOU!!!!!!
You all look like little children.
PUBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I don't care if I am shouting at the
moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Karin
Docnoid
Anna,
I enjoy reading informative posts from thoughtful Celine fans just like you,
when you have time...from flaming Mariah's group. :-)
Merry Christmas
Kenneth rinehart
Rob + Jolanda <ro...@tebenet.nl> wrote in message
news:83onr4$mcc$1...@porthos.nl.uu.net...
waste of talent is what you choose to defend. first off, she's a frog, or
frenchie if you prefere, secondly, she was obviously groomed for marriage by
her "husband" who if he was in the u.s. would probably be in prison. as far
as her singing ability goes, she's better than me but she is also one
dimensional as far as her range-everything sounds the same. her 15 minutes
are up.
> >
> >
>
>
Bruno Lacroix
Martin Bradford
Celine Fanatic <celine...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991219213547...@ng-fd1.aol.com...
> >>From: "Marc Dery" marc...@hotmail.com
> >
> >>I felt that she doesn't have to hit het chest and that
> >>king of thing.
>
Doing that does actually help you sing, it takes your mind off thinking
of how high you are singing. This leads to a greater quality of sound. The
moving down of hands is what helps best with this.
Martin Bradford
frequent, I'd say it is quite nice and I really get a feeling that almost
everyone here is genuinly interested in Celine.