John Denver w/ The Byrds
JuncoX
and he mentions gigging on the Sunset Strip in 1964, staying at the house of
Randy Sparks and "almost" being in a band with Roger McGuinn (Who he described
as shy and "even more introverted" than he was.), David Crosby and Guy(?)
Clark. I'm not sure why he refers to Gene as "Guy." There is in fact a country
singer named Guy Clark if that has anything to do with it. But Denver said he
couldn't take David Crosby's personality.
A little while later after he had replaced Chad Mitchell in the Mitchell
Trio he tried out (along with the rest of the trio) for THE MONKEES, but the
producers thought they weren't "juvenile" enough.
,Peter R.
learner
thought he was a decent singer. His version of "Mr. Tamborine Man" was,
well, not too bad..but a tad bland..
"JuncoX" <jun...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010625221901...@ng-co1.aol.com...
SteveL55555
> Today I started reading John Denver's autobiography
>"Take Me Home" from 1994 and he mentions gigging on
>the Sunset Strip in 1964, staying at the house of Randy
>Sparks and "almost" being in a band with Roger McGuinn
>(Who he described as shy and "even more introverted" than
>he was.), David Crosby and Guy(?) Clark. I'm not sure why
>he refers to Gene as "Guy."
Probably because his claim about "almost" being in the Byrds is bullshit and a
figment of his rather limited imagination. I've always found Denver and his
music to be insufferable, and this, to me, is further confirmation.
--Steve
learner
"SteveL55555" <steve...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010625231742...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
David Bailey
> Today I started reading John Denver's autobiography "Take Me Home" from 1994
> and he mentions gigging on the Sunset Strip in 1964, staying at the house of
> Randy Sparks and "almost" being in a band with Roger McGuinn (Who he described
> as shy and "even more introverted" than he was.), David Crosby and Guy(?)
> Clark. I'm not sure why he refers to Gene as "Guy."
It's happened before. BTW, Guy Clark ain't no country singer. He is a
rootsy singer/songwriter. I never though of his stuff as country.
db
JuncoX
>It's happened before. BTW, Guy Clark ain't no country singer. He is a
>rootsy singer/songwriter. I never though of his stuff as country.
>
I'm sorry. I work in a record store and that's how we've pigeonholed him I
guess.
Then again we still keep K.d. Lange, Leanne Rimes and Shania Twain in country.
That's Shania ("I swear I heard a fiddle and steel guitar somewhere!") Twain.
,Peter R.
JuncoX
>I recall it well when the Chad Mitchell Trio gave him a try.. I actually (!)
>thought he was a decent singer. His version of "Mr. Tamborine Man" was,
>well, not too bad..but a tad bland..
>
Wow! You get around! Yeah, I like John Denver, but only as a "casual" fan. I
can't quite take his full-length albums. He tries to rock (or something like
that) and he just can't do it. He's just out of his element.
,Peter R.
David Bruce
Not any more. But before he hit the waves, he seemed to be writing the
same song over and over. DB
TomThunder
>a >figment of his rather limited imagination. I've always found Denver and his
>music to be insufferable, and this, to me, is further confirmation.>--Steve
I always thought that John Denver was a real talent. Not that I liked
everything he did. As for the 'almost' story, I've never heard it, but back in
those days, with him being part of the (by-then-dying) folk music scene, it
might be within the realm of possibilty. For all his detractors, John Denver
mostly stayed true to himself, and I think his most popular body of work, from
about 1970-80 is for the most part quite palatable, and usually pretty good.
I'd rate 'Take Me Home, Country Roads', 'Sunshine On My Shoulders' (which makes
me think of 'Here, There & Everywhere'), 'Calypso', 'Rocky Mountain High',
'Thank God I'm A County Boy' and his version of 'City of New Orleans (which I
always preferred to Arlo Guthries)' as favorites.
I also remember suggesting that it might be fun to hear John and Roger on the
same track, right before he passed away...Tom
kat
"TomThunder" <tomth...@aol.com> wrote:
I also remember suggesting that it might be fun to hear John and Roger on the
same track, right before he passed away...Tom
I'm not sure about how Denver may have or could have been involved with any Byrd, but Denver's boyish "Rocky Mountain High" voice
would have been well suited to a cover of Chestnut Mare.
SteveL55555
>I always thought that John Denver was a real talent.
>Not that I liked everything he did.
Well, to each his own. I'm hard pressed to think of anything he did that I
like. But in fairness, I thought his hits were so lame that I never really
listened to any of his other work.
>As for the 'almost' story, I've never heard it, but back in
>those days, with him being part of the (by-then-dying) folk
>music scene, it might be within the realm of possibilty.
For 36 years, no Byrds fan I know has heard that story. In Rogan's exhaustive
700+ page book, Denver doesn't even rate a footnote.
There are those who could make a halfway credible claim to "almost" being Byrds
(Doug Dillard, John Guerin, and Jimi Seiter come to mind), but they haven't. I
think it's typical of Denver's blowhard nature that he does so in his book.
A somewhat related aside:
A couple of years ago I attended a 50th birthday party for a woman whose
husband was in the same graduating class at Georgetown Univ. as Bill Danoff,
co-composer of Denver's hit "Country Roads" (and former leader of the dreadful
Starland Vocal Band).
Danoff performed well that evening. Before playing "Country Roads" he said: "A
lot of people ask me if it's hard to pick a favorite among the songs I've
written. I tell 'em it's not hard at all. My favorite song is the one that made
me the most money."
--Steve
Stephen MacDougall
> TomThunder wrote:
>
> >I always thought that John Denver was a real talent.
> >Not that I liked everything he did.
>
> Well, to each his own. I'm hard pressed to think of anything he did that I
> like. But in fairness, I thought his hits were so lame that I never really
> listened to any of his other work.
First, just because it does not appeal to you does not mean he did not have
talent (provided you're saying "I didn't like it, therefore, it's not
talent.")
Second, I have to say that Peter, Paul, & Mary's take on "Leaving On A Jet
Plane" was a great version of one of his songs.
--
Stephen MacDougall, MSW, LSW
http://home.att.net/~s.macdougall
JuncoX
>Probably because his claim about "almost" being in the Byrds is bullshit and
>a
>figment of his rather limited imagination. I've always found Denver and his
>music to be insufferable, and this, to me, is further confirmation.
>
Well, perhaps. But if you have a few minutes check out this brief (I
promise.) biography.
JuncoX
>www.getmusic.com/adultpop/johndenver/bio/main.html
>
Hmm. That should've been a hot link. I don't know how I goofed. Sorry,
y'all.
,Peter R.
Laskodesign
>>Probably because his claim about "almost" being in the
>>Byrds is bullshit and a figment of his rather limited
>>imagination. I've always found Denver and his music to be
>>insufferable, and this, to me, is further confirmation.
To which Peter R. replied:
> Well, perhaps. But if you have a few minutes check out
>this brief (I promise.) biography.
>
>www.getmusic.com/adultpop/johndenver/bio/main.html
I'm assuming this is the section you're referring to:
"[Denver] spoke with fellow musicians Roger McGuinn, Gene Clark and David
Crosby about forming a group, and had it not been for a personality conflict
with Crosby, he might have become a founding member of what evolved into The
Byrds."
This was written by Joseph Laredo. I don't know who the guy is.
The story of how the Byrds were formed has been told countless times, including
feature interviews in Rolling Stone with Crosby and McGuinn; in books by Bud
Scoppa, John Rogan, and David Crosby; and probably in every rock publication
that's ever existed. I've read the interviews and books (though not every rock
rag) and have never even seen John Denver MENTIONED. In the absence of any
corroboration from Roger or Crosby, it's impossible for me to believe this
story.
--Steve
SteveL55555
>>I'm hard pressed to think of anything he did that I
>>like. But in fairness, I thought his hits were so lame
>>that I never really listened to any of his other work.
To which Stephen MacDougall replied:
>First, just because it does not appeal to you does not mean
>he did not have talent (provided you're saying "I didn't like it,
>therefore, it's not talent.")
I thought he could sing on key (though his range was quite limited), and he
played serviceable acoustic guitar.
--Steve
TomThunder
>played serviceable acoustic guitar.
I liked Denver for his ability to poke fun at himself, and for staying true to
his publicly expressed beliefs, although he may have come off as a bit strident
at times. As for his 'performing', I submit 'This Old Guitar', from 'An Evening
With John Denver'. There is a deep emotional connection with the audience, as
evidenced by the quite audible lump in his throat and the audience reaction
(Yeah, Grandma!). The sense of humor is apparent on 'Toledo' .
For all your dislike of him, he was one of the stronger and more popular
'folkie talents' around, and gave the form a boost at a time when it had been
written off by most in the industry...Tom
kat
Steve <lasko...@aol.com> wrote :>>Probably because his claim about "almost" being in the
>>Byrds is bullshit and a figment of his rather limited
>>imagination. I've always found Denver and his music to be
>>insufferable, and this, to me, is further confirmation.
My perception of Denver is at odds with my fond recollections of McGuinn and the Byrds.
Perhaps in 65' Denver might have fit in with with Hillman and Clark in more of a bluegrass/country acoustic ensemble, but definitely
not with Crosby, McGuinn or White in any electric rock n' roll band.
I recall the'69 Byrds who were playing to psychedelic rock oriented audiences at Fillmore East and West, the Kinetic Playground in
Chicago and at many smaller venues here and overseas. A lot of great jamming (like the Medley off the Fillmore CD) and an audience
who had a cerebral and often hallucinative appreciation for it.
Denver would have fit in there like Marie Osmond would have singing for Hendrix or Led Zeppelin.
SteveL55555
>For all your dislike of him, [Denver] was one of the stronger and
>more popular 'folkie talents' around, and gave the form
>a boost at a time when it had been written off by most in
>the industry...Tom
I'll grant you that Denver was enormously popular... much in the same way
McDonalds' hamburgers are popular. But that doesn't make them grand cuisine.
As for him being one of the stronger talents who was instrumental in reviving
the singer-songwriter genre, I don't agree at all. His popularity in the early
70s was part of a larger "folkie" revival of sorts that included far more
talented contemporaries such as James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen,
Paul Simon, Neil Young, Eric Anderson, Jackson Browne, John Prine, Tom Rush,
Randy Newman, etc. Dylan was still pretty popular, too.
--Steve
TomThunder
>the singer-songwriter genre, I don't agree at all. His popularity in the>early
>70s was part of a larger "folkie" revival of sorts that included far more
>talented contemporaries such as James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Leonard
Cohen,>Paul Simon, Neil Young, Eric Anderson, Jackson Browne, John Prine, Tom
Rush,
>Randy Newman, etc. Dylan was still pretty popular, too.>--Steve
Denver stayed pretty close to his folkie roots, while Taylor, Mitchell, Simon
and Browne embraced pop, Young alternated between country and rock, and the
others, despite critical acclaim (Prine, Newman - who was more 'Tin Pan Alley',
Anderson, and Rush - the latter's success mainly as a cover artist) weren't
really a force.
Dylan had to make a 'comeback' in '75, with 'Blood on The Tracks' after
Columbia let him go to Asylum.
Denver's popularity put a folk music back on the radio...Tom
SteveL55555
>Denver stayed pretty close to his folkie roots, while Taylor,
>Mitchell, Simon and Browne embraced pop, Young alternated
>between country and rock, and the others, despite critical
>acclaim (Prine, Newman - who was more 'Tin Pan Alley',
>Anderson, and Rush - the latter's success mainly as a cover
>artist) weren't really a force.
>Dylan had to make a 'comeback' in '75, with 'Blood on The
>Tracks' after Columbia let him go to Asylum.
>Denver's popularity put a folk music back on the radio...Tom
I guess we also disagree on what constitutes folk music. Denver's original
material sounds more pop to me than folk, despite the predominance of acoustic
guitar. This is a guy who, after all, performed in Vegas with Sinatra.
I think it's telling that many of the artists listed above played on each
other's records, and subsequently influenced generations of younger performers.
Their songs are covered by others, and they are repeatedly cited as major
influences. To me, this is more in the tradition of folk music and a folk
community.
With the exception of the odd cover of "Country Roads" and PP&M's "Leaving on a
Jet Plane", no artist of any stature has covered John Denver's material. He's
never been considered influential, nor has his been work embraced by other
musicians or performers.
--Steve
As for Dylan's "comeback", that's practically all he does. LOL! He came back
from the motorcycle accident with "John Wesley Harding"; back from the horrible
"Self Portrait" with "New Morning"; back from not touring with "Before the
Flood"; back from Judaism with "Slow Train", and on and on. "Blood on the
Tracks" was only one "comeback."
Harvey Gerst
Steve,
Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as the set
progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a half step higher
than it was at the start of the show.
Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
SteveL55555
>Steve,
>
>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as
>the set progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a
>half step higher than it was at the start of the show.
LOL! That's hilarious, Harvey. Did you play with him when he was solo, or with
Chad Mitchell, or when? Did you ever do any recording with him?
Also, what do you think about this business of Denver "almost" being in the
Byrd? Did Roger or the others ever mention anything like that to you? You
certainly were around back then...
--Steve
JuncoX
>Steve,
>
>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as the set
>progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a half step higher
>than it was at the start of the show.
>
>Harvey Gerst
Wow! I just clicked onto your website. It's awesome. It's mindboggling the
people you worked with. But then I'm just 29 so I see them as "legends" and you
probably just see them as people you've known and worked with.
I liked the bio on Sweetwater. I remember when they had the TV movie on them
a few years back. They were supposed to have their music re-issued by Rhino or
someone like that. Did that ever happen?
Yeah, I know this has nothing to do with the Byrds or John Denver.
,Peter R.
JuncoX
>corroboration from Roger or Crosby, it's impossible for me to believe this
>story.
That's fair enough.
,Peter R.
LindaB1027
>
> Wow! I just clicked onto your website. It's awesome. It's mindboggling
>the
>people you worked with. But then I'm just 29 so I see them as "legends"
>and you
>probably just see them as people you've known and worked with.
A lot of people claim they "knew everyone in the biz" ... but Harvey really DID
know everyone!!!! :-) And has the pictures to prove it (he hasn't posted even a
fraction of what he has, so keep bugging him, maybe he'll get around to
it.)!!!!
---
"Ah, to dance beneath the diamond sky
With one hand waving free ... " -- B. Dylan
"Be yourself and stand your ground,
Don't you let nobody turn you 'round.
Life is large!" -- The Kennedys
LindaB1027
>>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as
>>the set progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a
>>half step higher than it was at the start of the show.
Steve L. replied:
>LOL! That's hilarious, Harvey. Did you play with him when he was solo, or
>with
>Chad Mitchell, or when? Did you ever do any recording with him?
>
>Also, what do you think about this business of Denver "almost" being in
>the
>Byrd? Did Roger or the others ever mention anything like that to you? You
>certainly were around back then...
This is all cracking me up! :-)
I have to say I'm in Steve's camp ... Denver was okay, in my opinion ... I
liked Country Roads and Annie's Song ... but otherwise his stuff was pretty
white and I never understood the big hoopla about him. It always seemed to me
like he was more of a poster boy for the "crunchy granola folk artist" rather
than actually being one. :-) And man, YES, he was pop! Much more than the
others mentioned ... though they did indeed drift towards other genres ...
... but all great artists experiment and explore, otherwise the Beatles would
still be playing skiffle and Roger would still be playing folk ...
... wait a minute ... Roger IS still playing folk! ;-)
What I'm waiting for is Harvey's reply - watch out, Steve, he's gonna tell you
how HE was almost in the Byrds!!! ;-)
{{Harvey!}} :-)
- Linda
Richard Harison
--
All the Best
Richard Harison
"LindaB1027" <linda...@aol.comjunkfree> wrote in message
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JuncoX
>Don't forget Denver has talked to God...
Interresting thing is that in that very same book TAKE ME HOME John
describes all of the events alluded to in the lyrics to "Rocky Mountain High"
such as being out camping with family and friends and seeing the shadows of the
starlight followed by a brilliant meteor shower.
And, yes, he did drop acid( He and Annie smoked weed at one point as well.)
which is where the line, "and they say that he got crazy once and tried to
touch the sun...," came from. The rest of the verse,"...and he lost a friend,
but kept the memory," alludes to a friend who died in a motorcycle accident.
So, yes, he probably did, ahem," talk with God" while tripping just like
Eric Burdon talked with God and Buddha and all those people while he was
stoned.
,Peter R.
Jeff Mason
"JuncoX" <jun...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010628215257...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
> >
> >Don't forget Denver has talked to God...
> So, yes, he probably did, ahem," talk with God" while tripping just
like
> Eric Burdon talked with God and Buddha and all those people while he was
> stoned.
Uh, I could be wrong, but I think that the message referred to the Oh God
series, in which God (George Burns) appears to Mr. Denver....
Jeff
JuncoX
>Uh, I could be wrong, but I think that the message referred to the Oh God
>series, in which God (George Burns) appears to Mr. Denver....
>
Oh, yeah. I totally fogged on that. Right. See I was thinking about the line
in "Rocky Mountain High" where he sings," you can talk to God and listen for
the casual reply."
It really bothered John that he didn't get many movie roles after one. Oh,
he did do some movies like "Foxfire(not the Joyce Carol Oates story)" with Hume
Cronyn and Jessica Tandy. He got offered scripts, but they kind of got filtered
through his personal manager who supposedly wasn't too good.
,Peter R.
RICK12DR
>From: "Jeff Mason" jma...@earthlink.net.no.spam
>Uh, I could be wrong, but I think that the message referred to the Oh God
>series, in which God (George Burns) appears to Mr. Denver....
>
>
I think "Rocky Mountain High" came out Before "Oh, God" did, a few years at
that.
Richard Harison
somewhat obscure!! Sorry!
--
All the Best
Richard Harison
Harvey Gerst
>Harvey wrote:
>
>>Steve,
>>
>>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as
>>the set progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a
>>half step higher than it was at the start of the show.
>
>LOL! That's hilarious, Harvey. Did you play with him when he was solo, or with
>Chad Mitchell, or when? Did you ever do any recording with him?
I played bass for John during the time he was doing a solo act and he
was being managed by Randy Sparks (He owned the New Christy Minstrels
and the Backporch Majority as well).) I never recorded with John.
>Also, what do you think about this business of Denver "almost" being in the
>Byrd? Did Roger or the others ever mention anything like that to you? You
>certainly were around back then...
Steve,
I think that was a "coulda happened" thing in John's mind, more than a
reality. At the time, it would probably have been given some serious
consideration, since John was already a pretty well known songwriter. I
think he happened to be around Roger, David, and Gene at the time the
Byrds were forming, so the possibility might have existed, at least in
John's mind.
Harvey Gerst
>Harvey wrote:
>>>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as
>>>the set progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a
>>>half step higher than it was at the start of the show.
>
>Steve L. replied:
>>LOL! That's hilarious, Harvey. Did you play with him when he was solo, or
>>with Chad Mitchell, or when? Did you ever do any recording with him?
>>
>>Also, what do you think about this business of Denver "almost" being in
>>the Byrds? Did Roger or the others ever mention anything like that to you?
>>You certainly were around back then...
>
>This is all cracking me up! :-)
>
>I have to say I'm in Steve's camp ... Denver was okay, in my opinion ... I
>liked Country Roads and Annie's Song ... but otherwise his stuff was pretty
>white and I never understood the big hoopla about him. It always seemed to me
>like he was more of a poster boy for the "crunchy granola folk artist" rather
>than actually being one. :-) And man, YES, he was pop! Much more than the
>others mentioned ... though they did indeed drift towards other genres ...
>
>... but all great artists experiment and explore, otherwise the Beatles would
>still be playing skiffle and Roger would still be playing folk ...
>
>... wait a minute ... Roger IS still playing folk! ;-)
>
>What I'm waiting for is Harvey's reply - watch out, Steve, he's gonna tell you
>how HE was almost in the Byrds!!! ;-)
>{{Harvey!}} :-)
Linda,
I doubt very seriously whether I was ever a candidate for being in the
Byrds in anybody's mind, certainly not in my mind. At the time, I was
already in The Men. I think Roger and David were also concerned with
the "look" of the Byrds, so while I coulda kept up with the guitar
playing and singing parts, I wasn't right for the Byrds' "look", and I'm
sure if my name had been mentioned, it would have been quickly shot
down, and rightly so. The Byrds chosen were exactly right for the
Byrds.
Harvey Gerst
>>
>>Steve,
>>
>>Actually John sang sharp, and kept tuning his guitar upward as the set
>>progressed. I would often come off stage with my bass a half step higher
>>than it was at the start of the show.
>>
>>Harvey Gerst
>
> Wow! I just clicked onto your website. It's awesome. It's mindboggling the
>people you worked with. But then I'm just 29 so I see them as "legends" and you
>probably just see them as people you've known and worked with.
To some extent, yes, but friends or not, the legends achieved their
status by being way better than the rest of us, and that remained, no
matter how friendly you became with somebody. Watching Roger or Hendrix
or Clapton or Zappa play was always an inspiration. I was a good rhythm
guitar player, but I couldn't hold a candle to them. And David could
play more solid rhythm guitar than anybody. I knew more chords, but I
was really kinda jazz based. I probably had more in common musically
with Zappa than anybody else, but even there, Frank was way beyond me.
> I liked the bio on Sweetwater. I remember when they had the TV movie on them
>a few years back. They were supposed to have their music re-issued by Rhino or
>someone like that. Did that ever happen?
I think Rhino did release a special "best of" album, but they haven't
really pushed it.
> Yeah, I know this has nothing to do with the Byrds or John Denver.
The sad part about the whole thing was I was driving by the bay about
3:30 or 4 pm that day and noticed a lot of boats clustered out a little
ways from shore, and thought it was kinda odd at the time. When I got
to the hotel that night, I found out those were the boats pulling out
the wreckage of John's plane.
Harvey Gerst
>>>Harvey Gerst
>>
>> Wow! I just clicked onto your website. It's awesome. It's mindboggling
>>the
>>people you worked with. But then I'm just 29 so I see them as "legends"
>>and you
>>probably just see them as people you've known and worked with.
>
>A lot of people claim they "knew everyone in the biz" ... but Harvey really DID
>know everyone!!!! :-) And has the pictures to prove it (he hasn't posted even a
>fraction of what he has, so keep bugging him, maybe he'll get around to
>it.)!!!!
Maybe when I retire. :)
SteveL55555
>I have to say I'm in Steve's camp ... Denver was okay, in my
>opinion ... I liked Country Roads and Annie's Song ... but
>otherwise his stuff was pretty white and I never understood
>the big hoopla about him. It always seemed to me like he
>was more of a poster boy for the "crunchy granola folk artist"
>rather than actually being one. :-) And man, YES, he was pop!
>Much more than the others mentioned ... though they did
>indeed drift towards other genres ...
Linda, so great to see you back here. Where have you been?
>What I'm waiting for is Harvey's reply - watch out, Steve,
>he's gonna tell you how HE was almost in the Byrds!!! ;-)
Harvey has a greater claim to being an "almost" Byrd than Denver ever did.
LOL!! ;-)
--Steve
RV WRLee
>was being managed by Randy Sparks (He owned the New Christy Minstrels
>and the Backporch Majority as well).) I never recorded with John.
>
I saw John Denver open for the Moody Blues in Buffalo NY in 1971(?). He
had a guy and a girl backing him up and they were billed as "John Denver and
Fat CIty". I don't remember much about their performance (no explanation
needed I hope) except that they ended with a song titled "Thank God For
Marijuana" Does any of this ring a bell?
Bi!!
RV WRLee
>status by being way better than the rest of us, and that remained, no
>matter how friendly you became with somebody. Watching Roger or Hendrix
>or Clapton or Zappa play was always an inspiration.
Truer words were never spoken Harvey. I've had the unique and fortunate
opportunity to play with Roger countless times over the past twelve years. It
always amazed me that when we were just sitting around picking, he seemed to be
just an average player. Sometimes searching for the right chord or grasping
for a lyric of one of his own songs and often making up some silly nonsensical
line to cover it but never taking it too seriously. Then a few hours later, on
stage, a completely different persona takes over and he plays, and sings, and
phrases brilliantly and his true genius shines through and he'll search me out
in the audience, make eye contact, smile with a wink and nod as if to
say....gotcha!
Bi!!
SteveL55555
>I've had the unique and fortunate opportunity to play with
>Roger countless times over the past twelve years.
Bi!!, when you were jamming with Roger, did you ever play the 12-string? Also,
did you guys play old Byrds' tunes or other stuff?
--Steve
SteveL55555
> I saw John Denver open for the Moody Blues in Buffalo
>NY in 1971(?). He had a guy and a girl backing him up
>and they were billed as "John Denver and Fat CIty".
Fat City were Bill and Taffy Danoff, a D.C.-based husband and wife duo. They
went on to form the Starland Vocal Band with Jon Carroll (now playing keyboards
for Mary Chapin Carpenter) and his wife Margo.
Around the time the Starland Vocal Band broke up, the respective marriages also
broke up. Bill Danoff went on to music publishing (he published Jon Carroll's
"Get Closer" which was the title song of a Linda Ronstadt album, and also the
theme for a Close Up toothpaste commercial). He now owns the Starland Cafe in
D.C. where the Kennedys play an annual New Years Eve show.
--Steve
Harvey Gerst
Bill, I don't wanna give the impression that I was part of John's life
in anything but a perepheral way. I played bass for John a few times
when he opened for our group (The Men). Since I knew John's material
pretty well, I would play standup bass for him for fun. I probably
played bass for John maybe 4 or 5 times, total.
John and I did hang out a couple of times, but it was similar to my
relationship with Roger, David, or Chris - it was on a "Hi, John - Hi,
Harvey" basis - we were never what I would call "close friends". After
Gene Clark left the Byrds, Gene and I did get together to write some
songs, but even that wasn't a "close friends" situation.
I was probably a little "closer" to Clarence White since I ran sound for
the KCs at the Ash Grove for a long time, and knew all of them pretty
well. During the heyday of the original Byrds, I probably spent more
time with David than any of the other Byrds. For all of David's
brashness, he's really not a bad guy, although during David's "caped
crusader" days, I avoided him as much as possible. How Roger managed to
put up with David during that period is still a mystery to me and I long
ago nominated Roger for sainthood.
RV WRLee
>Also,
>did you guys play old Byrds' tunes or other stuff?
We usually play whatever we pick up whether a 6 or a 12 string but always
a Martin. We both have a fair collection. The 1970 D12-45 that Roger used for
the past few years was a gift from me to him. He returned the thought by
giving me a new RM D12-42. Love those Martin Guitars!
Usually folk songs or country songs or covers of Clapton or Dylan etc.
but occasionally a Byrd song and always a Harvey Gerst song. :-)
Bi!!
Harvey Gerst
Bill,
If you ever get by the studio, remind me to show you the intro that
Frank Zappa worked out for "It Won't Be Wrong".
LindaB1027
>Linda, so great to see you back here. Where have you >been?
Oh, I check in now and then, but just haven't had anything to say! (Amazing as
THAT would seem! ;-) )
I know I owe both you and Elizabeth a good solid e-mail ... soon, I promise!!!
:-)
Hope all is well,
Bruce Kula
B.
JuncoX
>to the hotel that night, I found out those were the boats pulling out
>the wreckage of John's plane.
>
Wow. I remember when I heard about it. I was running out the door to work
and my mom had the radio on and they announced it and I just went, "What?! Mom,
did you hear that?"
And then I picked up the local newspapers later in the day and they were
still only saying that his plane had gone down and he was missing.
,Peter R.
JuncoX
>My reference was indeed to the movie. Sometimes my sense of humor is
>somewhat obscure!! Sorry!
>--
No problem. I really should've caught on quicker though because I used to
listen to him alot several years ago.
,Peter R.
JuncoX
>Fat City were Bill and Taffy Danoff, a D.C.-based husband and wife duo. They
>went on to form the Starland Vocal Band with Jon Carroll (now playing
>keyboards
>for Mary Chapin Carpenter) and his wife Margo.
Oh, yeah. "Skyrocket in flight...afternoon delight!"
,Peter R.
James V. Bohen
Stone review of Denver's "Rocky Mountain High" album in 1972,
published before the title song had become a big hit, that had this to
say about one of the songs, "Prisoners":
"Two acoustic guitars and electric bass kick it off with strident
tones set into a march tempo like something from the first Byrds
album: it's immediately compelling."
Jim Bohen
kat
"Harvey Gerst" <har...@ITRstudio.com> wrote :
I doubt very seriously whether I was ever a candidate for being in the
Byrds in anybody's mind, certainly not in my mind. At the time, I was
already in The Men. I think Roger and David were also concerned with
the "look" of the Byrds, so while I coulda kept up with the guitar
playing and singing parts, I wasn't right for the Byrds' "look", and I'm
sure if my name had been mentioned, it would have been quickly shot
down, and rightly so. The Byrds chosen were exactly right for the
Byrds.
That was certainly the case then, but now when I sense an emphasis on appearance for contemporary male musical groups it strikes me
as shallow and teen oriented. I suppose though that is a necessary part of marketing ...and even more so with increased exposure in
video.
I think the sixties was a generation that came in a couple of waves both musically and culturally, and that by the late sixties,
perhaps a musician's appearance was not as big a factor with the anti-war/hippie/woodstock/long-hair/peace/love generation.
Harvey Gerst
Kat,
That's partly true, but in 1963, the Beatles were storming the US pop
market and the Beatles' "look" was taking hold. That "look was very
important if there was going to be a challenge to their popularity from
the US. Yes, it was "shallow and teen oriented", but it was also very
necessary if you wanted to be a pop star at the time. I didn't have the
burning ambition to be a pop star that some of my peers had. I was very
content to experiment in many different areas of music, such as writing,
recording, production, and product development. Plus, I was having a
"bad hair year" at the time.
JuncoX
>necessary if you wanted to be a pop star at the time.
That reminds me about Ian Stewart and the Rolling Stones. The Stones'
handlers wanted them to have that "lean and hungry" look and poor Ian good as
he was just didn't fit the bill. He remained dedicated to them regardless
though.
It reminds me of the Monkees too. But then that's going to the very extreme.
,Peter R.
Micky
songs still get airplay and quite pleasant they are too. But the
Rolling Stones were doing the pubs and clubs before commercial success
hit them, at which point image became important. With the Monkees, the
image came first then came the members of the band, then the music.
The Byrds were different, even though they were not all deemed
sufficiently competent musically to play on Mr Tambourine Man, in that
they very soon took over their own destinies and pushed their music
forward in so many different directions, creating a platform for so
many who followed them. And they were probably more in control of
their image than the Monkees, the Stones, or especially the Beatles.
And if anyone can imagine the original line-up featuring John Denver,
well, let's not go there hey?
RV WRLee
>fun!
>
>B.
You're right Bruce but he really has to dial himself down to get to my level!
:-)
Bi!!
Robert Broughton
tomth...@aol.com (TomThunder) writes:
> I'd rate 'Take Me Home, Country Roads', 'Sunshine On My Shoulders' (which makes
> me think of 'Here, There & Everywhere'), 'Calypso', 'Rocky Mountain High',
> 'Thank God I'm A County Boy' and his version of 'City of New Orleans (which I
> always preferred to Arlo Guthries)' as favorites.
> I also remember suggesting that it might be fun to hear John and Roger on the
> same track, right before he passed away...Tom
>
I've been a non-fan of John Denver for a long time, BUT... I think his
rendition of "And So It Goes" on "Will the Circle Be Unbroken Vol. II"
was excellent. Since Roger and Chris were also in on this project, it's
likely that the three of them were in the recording studio at the same
time.
--
Bob Broughton
http://broughton.ca/
Vancouver, BC, Canada
"The only liars are the ones that will go to any length to force their standards on
others..." -Kulcsár Ferenc, mailto:kulcsa...@hotmail.com
David Bruce
This thread presents an opportunity to air a question that's puzzled me
for years: On different occasions Roger has played the Rickenbacker
with and without fingerpicks, sometimes a thumbpick, sometimes a
flatpick and no fingerpicks. On the two occasions I've seen the RM
D42-12 Martin, he used a thumbpick and no fingerpicks. Granted, Roger
has been a professional player for decades, but how difficult is it to
him to make these technical changes?
[This is like asking: I know what lifting 200 pounds feels to me, what
does 200 pounds feel like to Arnold Schwarzenegger?]
David Bruce
RV WRLee
>has been a professional player for decades, but how difficult is it to
>him to make these technical changes?
I guess the most often used combo that I've seen is a flatpick and fingerpicks
on his middle finger and ring finger. I guess he's so adept at the variations
that it presents no challenge to him but you'd have to ask him.
Bi!!
Stephen MacDougall
flat-pick/finger-picks anybody (not just Roger) uses.
For me, the particular guitar I'm using is one variable. My personal
preference is to not have to use anything, however I'd have to use a
thumb-pick and finger-picks on a Rick, because the string spacing is very
narrow. Another is the condition of my fingernails.
--
Stephen MacDougall, MSW, LSW
http://home.att.net/~s.macdougall