King's Lead Hat?
Cecrle
$6!). I think it's great--I might like it as much as Taking Tiger
Mountain....Damn, early Eno is awesome...
Anyway, I've heard how King's Lead Hat is an anagram for Talking Heads,
but what's the significance? Do the lyrics relate to the band in any way,
or was Eno just using a wacky trick to come up with strange ideas? Has
Eno ever said anything about it, or is everyone just guessing he did it
as an anagram?
-FC
Alastair Macartney
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote in article
<6pq78a$fbq$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
>
> Anyway, I've heard how King's Lead Hat is an anagram for Talking Heads,
> but what's the significance?
I believe that Eno was producing the Talking Heads at the time ('77?) on
the 77 album or ..."Buildings and Food" and that the anagram came from
that. the lyrics again are anyone's guess as most of the time he seems to
use words more for the sound than the meaning.
Alastair
John R Robards
>Just got Before and After Science yesterday (over the 'net, used, for
>$6!). I think it's great--I might like it as much as Taking Tiger
>Mountain....Damn, early Eno is awesome...
>
>Anyway, I've heard how King's Lead Hat is an anagram for Talking Heads,
>but what's the significance?...
I don't know, but there is a Eno - Talking Heads connection.
Have you listened to My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts? It is
a collaboration between Eno and David Byrne. It is fantastic.
John
======================================================================
John R Robards Boston http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jrobards/
gongstar
Alastair Macartney wrote in message <01bdbbf7$bbe4eb60$c1e1abc3@default>...
Stuart Judd
>>Anyway, I've heard how King's Lead Hat is an anagram for Talking Heads,
Made as a tribute to Talking Heads before Eno produced such good albums as
"Remain In Light" - where he sings the chorus for "Once in A Lifetime" and
"Fear of Music" where Adrian Belew also joins in..
As for "My Life..." anyone who liked this should also check out the David
Byrne album "The Catherine Wheel" which was produced at the same time and
can be considered as a companion piece.
Cecrle
>In article <6pq78a$fbq$1...@nw003t.infi.net>, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>I don't know, but there is a Eno - Talking Heads connection.
>Have you listened to My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts? It is
>a collaboration between Eno and David Byrne. It is fantastic.
Yeah, I got it from BMG awhile ago. It has some cool moments, but a lot
of it gets tiresome.
-FC
nopa...@yahoo.com
I'm sort of suprised that some misinformation and lack of information on this
good question came up. I don't mean to be righteous at all, but as an ancient
Eno freak (well, I'm 35,) I remember well the chronolgy. I'll start before the
start:
Eno and John Cale saw Talking Heads at the same show at CBGB in NYC in 1977
for the first time, allegedly at Andy Warhol's suggestion they check them
out. (Warhol later did a radio ad for "More Songs," which was very funny.)
Both musicians were invited backstage, and Eno reported that Cale
jokingly-angrily accosted Eno: "*I* want them, you bugger!" Eno struck up a
rapport with the band, and they all mutually admired one another and got
along as friends. Well, until Tina Weymouth started publicly accusing Eno of
trying to break up the band and taking credit for teamwork, anyway. Eno had
already been finishing up work on "Before and After Science" before this
meeting; "King's Lead Hat" didn't yet have lyrics or a title. Supposedly, the
sessions for "Science" dragged on and on at great expense. Although he may
have been exaggerating, Phil Collins once said that Eno had something like
200 completed tracks for the album by the time the sessions ended. (I don't
happen to believe this, but don't really know.) In any event, it's true that
Eno *intentionally* named the track as an anagram of "Talking Heads" in
celebration of his new friendship and in anticipation of producing "More
Songs About Buildings and Food." Eno felt that "King's" "herky-jerky"
rhythmic sensibility was akin to the same in TH music, and named that track
accordingly in covert tribute to that kinship. Much has been said about this
common rhythm and syncopation sensibility. I always recommend that people
listen to the typewriter solo on "China My China," obviously pre-dating
T-Heads, and pretend that it's Chris Frantz doing the typing. It's so easy!
Interestingly, when Vanity Fair magazine first got re-started circa 1981,
they did a little feature in which lots of records were played for David
Byrne, without the interviewer telling him what was being played, soliciting
Byrne's comments. As I recall, he already knew every single thing that was
played for him. One of the tracks was "King's..." Byrne actually was very
critical of the track. He said that he didn't think it was a very accurate
representation of the TH sound (it really wasn't meant to be, though,) and
that he felt that if Eno wanted to express something manic, he could have
done a better and less obvious job!
So there you have it. I don't own "More Dark Than Shark," but if I recall
correctly from reading it more than 10 years ago, Eno did comment on the
anagram, if only briefly. Again, it WAS intentional.
Completely unrelated, musing on this reminded me of the announcement in
Rolling Stone, circa 1978, that David Bowie would be producing this weirdo
band named DEVO. :) A photo of Bowie posing (rather embarassingly) with the
DEVOs accompanied the article. Anybody else out there remember this?
Finally, I LOVE Fripp's contribution to "King's Lead Hat," which is not
unlike his solo on T-Heads' "I Zimbra." Recent obscure releases of Frippery
have been pretty boringly mastubatory IMO, but I'm glad that King Crimson is
preparing to come out and storm the scene sometime in the next couple of
years. Hurry up, guys!
-Dean
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Cecrle
"*I* want them, you bugger!" Eno struck up a
>rapport with the band, and they all mutually admired one another and got
>along as friends. Well, until Tina Weymouth started publicly accusing Eno of
>trying to break up the band and taking credit for teamwork, anyway.
Yeah, I've read interviews/articles where she talks about that--how Byrne
and Eno would be off by themselves, how Byrne started dressing like Eno,
etc. You think there's much truth to this, or is she jealously
exaggerating?
BTW--are Eno and Byrne still friends at all?
-FC
John E. Bredehoft
>$6!). I think it's great--I might like it as much as Taking Tiger
>Mountain....Damn, early Eno is awesome...
>
>or was Eno just using a wacky trick to come up with strange ideas? Has
>Eno ever said anything about it, or is everyone just guessing he did it
>as an anagram?
>
>
>-FC
>
I heard (but cannot confirm) that he wrote King's Lead Hat *before* he
got involved with the band. Apparently several people were interested
in producing Talking Heads.
--
Theo Tres Thr3 "Moonlight Raked the Lawn" (copyright control):
http://users.deltanet.com/~jbredeho/tt3/moonrtl.mid
More songs at http://users.deltanet.com/~jbredeho/tt3/view.html
John E. Bredehoft
gongstar <gong...@interaccess.com> wrote:
>Fear of Music
Buildings and Food also. Supposedly the cover art is illustrative of
his relationship with the band's sound; he supposedly tweaked almost
every sound on the album, but the end result was a unified whole.
>Alastair Macartney wrote in message <01bdbbf7$bbe4eb60$c1e1abc3@default>...
>>
>>
>>Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote in article
>><6pq78a$fbq$1...@nw003t.infi.net>...
>>>
>>> Anyway, I've heard how King's Lead Hat is an anagram for Talking Heads,
>>> but what's the significance?
>>
>>I believe that Eno was producing the Talking Heads at the time ('77?) on
>>the 77 album or ..."Buildings and Food" and that the anagram came from
>>that. the lyrics again are anyone's guess as most of the time he seems to
>>use words more for the sound than the meaning.
>>
>>Alastair
>
>
John E. Bredehoft
>>Have you listened to My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts? It is
>>a collaboration between Eno and David Byrne. It is fantastic.
>
>Yeah, I got it from BMG awhile ago. It has some cool moments, but a lot
>of it gets tiresome.
>
>
>-FC
>
However, the concept at the time was novel and spawned a lot of imitation.
Several people at my college produced a "new music sampler," and one of
the tracks consisted of "found" vocals layered over unrelated music.
John E. Bredehoft
the flash points of Talking Heads, and Frantz and Harrison were the
mediators. You can't deny that Byrne's contributions to the band have
clearly been emphasized, and the contributions of the other three
minimized to some extent. Supposedly it came to a head when Eno and
Byrne claimed credit for the "creative direction" of Remain in Light.
>
>BTW--are Eno and Byrne still friends at all?
>
>
>-FC
>
Mark Mushet
>nopa...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>"*I* want them, you bugger!" Eno struck up a
>>rapport with the band, and they all mutually admired one another and got
>>along as friends. Well, until Tina Weymouth started publicly accusing Eno of
>>trying to break up the band and taking credit for teamwork, anyway.
>Yeah, I've read interviews/articles where she talks about that--how Byrne
>and Eno would be off by themselves, how Byrne started dressing like Eno,
>etc. You think there's much truth to this, or is she jealously
>exaggerating?
Probably true. Remember when Byrne started dressing like Robert Wilson
and even adopted his mannerisms?
Cecrle
=
>Probably true. Remember when Byrne started dressing like Robert Wilson
>and even adopted his mannerisms?
Nope--I'm only 18 (well, almost :). Who's Robert Wilson, and what are his
mannerisms? How did Byrne come into contact with him?
-FC
Cecrle
>At least some truth. Some have theorized that Byrne and Weymouth were
>the flash points of Talking Heads, and Frantz and Harrison were the
>mediators. You can't deny that Byrne's contributions to the band have
>clearly been emphasized, and the contributions of the other three
>minimized to some extent. Supposedly it came to a head when Eno and
>Byrne claimed credit for the "creative direction" of Remain in Light.
Well, I think it's obvious that Byrne *was*, for the most part, Talking
Heads. I mean, shit--just look at what the other three have since done as
a group compared to what Byrne has since done on his own. Byrne's the
man. :)
I've heard that the lyrics to Remain in Light partially came from Byrne
calling things out from one part of the studio and Eno writing down what
he *thought* he heard Byrne saying. Anyone know anything about this?
-FC
Stuart Judd
but started with 'Buildings & Food'
Paul Dormer
>jrob...@mediaone.net (John R Robards) wrote:
>>In article <6pq78a$fbq$1...@nw003t.infi.net>, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't know, but there is a Eno - Talking Heads connection.
>>Have you listened to My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts? It is
>>a collaboration between Eno and David Byrne. It is fantastic.
>
>Yeah, I got it from BMG awhile ago. It has some cool moments, but a lot
>of it gets tiresome.
tiresome? wow we must come from different planets ;-)
Paul
me...@clara.net
Cecrle
>>>I don't know, but there is a Eno - Talking Heads connection.
>>>Have you listened to My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts? It is
>>>a collaboration between Eno and David Byrne. It is fantastic.
>>
>>Yeah, I got it from BMG awhile ago. It has some cool moments, but a lot
>>of it gets tiresome.
>
>tiresome? wow we must come from different planets ;-)
It's repetetive. Drags on a lot of times. As has been said, a lot of the
coolness of it was the originality, right? But by now it's old-hat,
sorta, so it's not as dazzling.
Does it actually hold your attention?
-FC
Paul Dormer
I hate technique without soul I have always considered this record
spiritually compelling. It has much more to offer than just 'original
ideas'. That is not what grabbed my attention in the first place, nor
now.. although maybe something I became aware of inbetween
Ok.. so you think it is repetitive? That is your personal judgement I
can live with that. But my life in the bush of ghosts still gives me
the chills like nothing else.. after 14 years
I have learnt to accept that people have different tastes, and I feel
open minded toward other peoples opinions. I just cannot *comprehend*
why you, anyone, does not get the same buzz from this record as I do?
Paul
me...@clara.net
Cecrle
>I have learnt to accept that people have different tastes, and I feel
>open minded toward other peoples opinions. I just cannot *comprehend*
>why you, anyone, does not get the same buzz from this record as I do?
Hey, I think it has some great moments--Mea Culpa, the one with the
evangelist preaching...
But sometimes the "music" just gets boring or stays the same for too long.
And sometimes the sampled voices just aren't that interesting. It's been
awhile since I've listened, so I'll do so soon and post my thoughts
here...
-FC
nopa...@yahoo.com
jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
> At least some truth. Some have theorized that Byrne and Weymouth were
> the flash points of Talking Heads, and Frantz and Harrison were the
> mediators.
As I understand, that's exactly right. One only need review comments Weymouth
was making to the press immediately after the release of "Remain in Light" to
see how frustrated she was on a few items.
When the Heads relocated to New York City (the four of them actually shared a
loft for a short while,) Byrne made Weymouth RE-AUDITION for the band, after
she'd already been a founding member! The story goes that at the time, Tina
went along with it, but that resentment simmered, understandably. Obviously,
she passed the audition. I don't know if other musicians were auditioned.
>You can't deny that Byrne's contributions to the band have
> clearly been emphasized, and the contributions of the other three
> minimized to some extent.
That is very true, and important to remember. OTOH, Byrne w(and is) a far
better guitarist than he typically gets credit for. I saw the Heads many
times between '78 and '83, and was always amazed at the musicianship of the
entire band.
> Supposedly it came to a head when Eno and
> Byrne claimed credit for the "creative direction" of Remain in Light.
It was worse than that. On the first issue of the album, some of the songs
were credited as having been written by Byrne and Eno; in fact what happened
is that the songs were created from jams, with no understanding of what
lyrics might be added later. That work was done by Byrne and Eno without the
other participating musicians after the music tracks were more or less
completed in the Bahamas. Part of the point of the sessions was that
composition was supposed to be communal. Subsequent issues of the album
credit the other three Heads with composition as well, if I remember
correctly.
> >BTW--are Eno and Byrne still friends at all?
Good question.
Cecrle
>In article <6pu9g4$fer$8...@news01.deltanet.com>,
>When the Heads relocated to New York City (the four of them actually shared a
>loft for a short while,) Byrne made Weymouth RE-AUDITION for the band, after
>she'd already been a founding member! The story goes that at the time, Tina
>went along with it, but that resentment simmered, understandably. Obviously,
>she passed the audition. I don't know if other musicians were auditioned.
Well, technically she wasn't a founding member. The founding members were
David and Chris. Didn't Tina get in because she was friends (or possibly
more, then) with Chris? She took bass lessons AFTER she was in the band,
so I don't think she was really instrumental (pardon the pun :) at the
outset. It seems it was more like, "Okay, you're here so why don't you
try it..." Jerry came after being a Modern Lover.
(BTW--is that the "modern lovers" that Eno mentions in "The True Wheel"?)
-FC.
Mark Mushet
>sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
>=
>>Probably true. Remember when Byrne started dressing like Robert Wilson
>>and even adopted his mannerisms?
>Nope--I'm only 18 (well, almost :). Who's Robert Wilson
Collaborated with Philip Glass for "Einstein on the Beach" and Byrne
for "The Knee Plays." Mainly involved in contemporary theatre. Don't
know what he's done of late.
>and what are his mannerisms?
Check out the PBS documentary from the eighties on the restaging of
"Einstein" in New York. Then watch an interview with Byrne from the
period when they worked together.
>How did Byrne come into contact with him?
Not sure.
pHilT
>
>
> Byrne w(and is) a far better guitarist than he typically gets credit for.
>
Very true comment. But it seems that it's always the way with people who
are rhythm guitarists.
===================================================
PHil : ptur...@ozemail.com.au
No Night Sweats : http://ozemail.com.au/~pturnbul
===================================================
Other anagrams to be found in the words Kew Rhone :
horn, honk, heron, hew, heener, hone,
owner, week, new, row, error, reek, whore.
You can no doubt eke out a couple more.
===================================================
John E. Bredehoft
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>jbre...@delta1.deltanet.com (John E. Bredehoft) wrote:
>
>>At least some truth. Some have theorized that Byrne and Weymouth were
>>the flash points of Talking Heads, and Frantz and Harrison were the
>>clearly been emphasized, and the contributions of the other three
>>Byrne claimed credit for the "creative direction" of Remain in Light.
>
>Heads. I mean, shit--just look at what the other three have since done as
>a group compared to what Byrne has since done on his own. Byrne's the
>man. :)
and Tom Tom Club stuff that I've heard (with the exception of "Gratuitous
Name-Dropping (James Brown James Brown)" or whatever that Tom Tom Club
hit was).
>I've heard that the lyrics to Remain in Light partially came from Byrne
>calling things out from one part of the studio and Eno writing down what
>he *thought* he heard Byrne saying. Anyone know anything about this?
>
>
>-FC
>
--
Theo Tres Thr3 "Motorcycle Radio" (copyright control):
http://users.deltanet.com/~jbredeho/tt3/motorad.mid
John E. Bredehoft
>In article <6pu9g4$fer$8...@news01.deltanet.com>,
>
>> At least some truth. Some have theorized that Byrne and Weymouth were
>> the flash points of Talking Heads, and Frantz and Harrison were the
>> mediators.
>
>was making to the press immediately after the release of "Remain in Light" to
>see how frustrated she was on a few items.
>
>loft for a short while,) Byrne made Weymouth RE-AUDITION for the band, after
>she'd already been a founding member! The story goes that at the time, Tina
>went along with it, but that resentment simmered, understandably. Obviously,
>she passed the audition. I don't know if other musicians were auditioned.
in the band in the first place. One could also note that Tina was a guitarist,
not a bass player. However, that doesn't excuse Byrne's behavior in that
little episode.
John E. Bredehoft
>nopa...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>In article <6pu9g4$fer$8...@news01.deltanet.com>,
>
>>loft for a short while,) Byrne made Weymouth RE-AUDITION for the band, after
>>she'd already been a founding member! The story goes that at the time, Tina
>>went along with it, but that resentment simmered, understandably. Obviously,
>>she passed the audition. I don't know if other musicians were auditioned.
>
>David and Chris. Didn't Tina get in because she was friends (or possibly
>more, then) with Chris? She took bass lessons AFTER she was in the band,
>so I don't think she was really instrumental (pardon the pun :) at the
>outset. It seems it was more like, "Okay, you're here so why don't you
>try it..."
I've heard that David and Chris were searching for a bass player and
couldn't find one. So Tina joined the band out of necessity, not by
sleeping her way into the band.
>Jerry came after being a Modern Lover.
Boy, that sentence can be read multiple ways... :)
>(BTW--is that the "modern lovers" that Eno mentions in "The True Wheel"?)
I would assume so. My timeline is warped, so I don't know if Eno was
referring to the original band, or the "I'm a Little Airplane Now"
version.
marty lester
>I never have heard The Heads album, but I've enjoyed the Jerry Harrison
>and Tom Tom Club stuff that I've heard (with the exception of "Gratuitous
>Name-Dropping (James Brown James Brown)" or whatever that Tom Tom Club
>hit was).
"Genius of Love" is the song you refer to...don't know why, but i love
that song...i think it must be adrian belew's guitar flying around and
the female singers that does it for me...
speaking of belew and jerry harrison, don't you just love the solo
adrian does on "Worlds in Collision" from "The Red and the Black"
(i may be mistaken on this album title, sorry...) by harrison?
blows my mind to this day.
off topic and loving it,
marty.
________________________________________
che...@tequilamockingbird.com
Making the World a Noisier Place
Jostein Herredsvela
-- Genius of Love is beautiful. It's probably the only love song
the Heads ever wrote. I would say it's good despite that it's a
love song.
How about that?Jostein
nopa...@yahoo.com
jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
> I never have heard The Heads album,
Sadly, it sucks. I wouldn't recommend wasting your $$$ as I did. There are a
couple of passable songs ("Damage I've Done" and the rather cute "Punk
Lotlita," but over all it's a bit of an embarassment, IMO.)
>but I've enjoyed the Jerry Harrison
> and Tom Tom Club stuff that I've heard (with the exception of "Gratuitous
> Name-Dropping (James Brown James Brown)" or whatever that Tom Tom Club
> hit was).
It was called "Genius of Love." The name-dropping, as you call it, wasn't
gratuitous at all. It was "giving props..." showering the *several* artists
named with praise for their funky influences.
nopa...@yahoo.com
"marty lester" <che...@tequilamockingbird.com> wrote:
> speaking of belew and jerry harrison, don't you just love the solo
> adrian does on "Worlds in Collision" from "The Red and the Black"
> (i may be mistaken on this album title, sorry...) by harrison?
> blows my mind to this day.
YES! Why the heck was that album never released on CD? (If I'm wrong about
that, please let me know; I've never found it.) It's superior to all
subsequent Harrison and Casual Gods releases. Nona Hendrix also contributed
some very alluring vocals to "The Red and the Black" (you got the title
right; it's a lift from Stendhal's famous novel.)
nopa...@yahoo.com
> Well, technically she wasn't a founding member. The founding members were
> David and Chris. Didn't Tina get in because she was friends (or possibly
> more, then) with Chris?
Technincally, you're correct. David and Chris were previously in a college
band (Rhode Island School of Design) called The Artistics, which they also
sometimes called The Autistics. David and Chris came up with the Talking
Heads idea, but they didn't start playing as a trio until Tina joined, hence
my debatable naming of her as a founding member.
> She took bass lessons AFTER she was in the band,
True, but Byrne took vocal lessons long after he was in the band...
> so I don't think she was really instrumental (pardon the pun :) at the
> outset.
Your knowledge impresses me, so I don't mean to argue, but I happen to reject
the notion that musical training makes one a musician. I played bass in a
band without ever having been taught how; I taught myself. Same with singing.
I was a singer for awhile, but beyond grade school glee-club stuff, hadn't a
clue what professional training might have done for me, and frankly didn't
care at the time. Eno has spent decades talking about how professional
musicianship can prevent an artist from exploring territory they might have
had their teachers taught them not to.
I don't believe Eno was literally referring to The Modern Lovers in "The True
Wheel," but I think he knew the phrase was already "out there," if you know
what I mean. He was most certainly literally referring to the as-yet-unformed
A Certain Ratio. (OK, OK, I'm just kidding...)
:) Dean
nopa...@yahoo.com
In article <35C7146E...@fi.uib.no>,
Jostein Herredsvela <jost...@fi.uib.no> wrote:
> -- Genius of Love is beautiful. It's probably the only love song
>
> the Heads ever wrote.
I agree; it's beautiful, fun, psychedelic, touching, funky...it's lots of
good things, but the Heads didn't write it, the Tom Tom Club did. Byrne has
never had anything to do with the Tom Tom Club.
IMO it's a heck of a lot more than a love song. The "frame" of the lyrics is
that the young woman is lamenting the loss of her boyfriend, who is the
"genius of love." She's in jail as she muses on her lost genius with "his
warm arms," looking forward to geting out and having some "natural fun." The
wistful, airy vocals of the three sisters provide a sad undertone to the
somewhat silly/funky musical track. This silly/sad sort of formula makes for
perfect pop in a good songwriter's (or in this case, communal songwriters')
care. The Police mastered this silly/sad formula in the late '70's/early
'80's. The first Tom Tom Club album had a lot of this. As the song
progresses, the tributes to other funky/soulful artists are recited. At the
time, band-as-community and Hip-Hop were infectious concepts/genres in NYC,
where most of the Tom Tommers were based at the time. It was typical to name
influential musicians as was done in "Genius." So, IMO, it IS a love song, or
a lost-love song, but it's more, too. "Wordy Rappinghood" also shows local
influences of the day, and features that not-so-covert stab at Byrne: "Words
are like a certain person / Doesn't mean what he says / Can't say what he
means..." Clever and catty, Tina!
Talking Heads wrote more "I'm not in love" - type songs than love songs, and
there isnt' a single Talking Heads love song that exists only as that. That
cliche was one that Byrne wanted to avoid and disavow, at least for several
years. Same went for Eno, until "Lay my Love." (But even that song has a
creepy undertone.) Post-"Speaking in Tongues," when they more than lost their
vision of what made them great, there were some moves towards traditional
love songs, but even those had a good deal of irony and multiple meanings.
I'm thinking of songs like "Stay up Late," "The Lady Don't Mind," etc.
Perhaps "Home / Naive Melody" is sort of a love song for an inanimate object,
or concept, that being *home.*
As a trivial anecdote, I met Byrne a couple of times, once at a nuclear
disarmament rally in San Francisco. He confided, as if it were some secret,
that the songs on "Little Creatures" were originally written for his original
conception of "True Stories." How odd that they are superior to the songs
that made it to the movie! He said he originally wanted to movie to be a
collage of sequences in which outrageous stories from supermarket tabloids
were presented as if they really were fact. I can't see how the "Little
Creatures" songs fit that milieu, but it would have been fun. He made a good
picture anyway.
"Reggae's expanding with Sly and Robbie..." That was true at the time; they
were the rhythm section to end all rhythm sections, but they fell prey to the
corrupt Dancehall movement, and these days seem to be resting on their
laurals in ultra-commercial-land, making very smug and boring music. TOO BAD!
I saw them with Black Uhuru as opening act on that weird "in between" Talking
Heads tour (1982) where the band actually wore sort-of uniforms and had a
pseudo-Asian logo. To everyone's suprise, Black Uhuru (then at their peak)
blew the T-Heads out of the water. There was evident on-stage tension during
that show. Byrne seemed to exist separately from the others, and nobody
seemed to be having much fun. Gladly, the Heads returned the next year (the
"Stop Making Sense" tour) and blew all American bands out of the water, once
again a great band.
-Dean, enjoying the memories...
Mark Mushet
>In article <6q59bd$b3$3...@nw003t.infi.net>,
> Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>> Well, technically she wasn't a founding member. The founding members were
>> David and Chris. Didn't Tina get in because she was friends (or possibly
>> more, then) with Chris?
>Technincally, you're correct. David and Chris were previously in a college
>band (Rhode Island School of Design) called The Artistics, which they also
>sometimes called The Autistics. David and Chris came up with the Talking
>Heads idea, but they didn't start playing as a trio until Tina joined, hence
>my debatable naming of her as a founding member.
A friend of mine was at RISD at this time and booked them for a dance.
Hardly anyone showed.
nopa...@yahoo.com
sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
> A friend of mine was at RISD at this time and booked them for a dance.
> Hardly anyone showed.
Must've been BeeGees fans. :)
Cool anecdote, Mark! I have one more, in the context of Talking Heads
emerging from the disco domination of the times. Their first album, '77, was
produced by Tony Bongiovani, who had just previously produced Meco's disco
"Star Wars" album. After working with Eno on "More Songs...," Byrne said "I
think Tony Bongiovani is one of the biggest assholes I've ever met!" This was
before David learned the value of holding his tongue in public. The Heads
hated the production of '77, although I think most fans pretty much like it.
There are times when the horn section sounds a bit on the Herb Alpert side,
but I always regarded that as a quirky eccentricity. I think they wanted
their horn section to sound more like those of Stevie Wonder or KC and the
Sunshine Band (seriously.)
In a nicer commentary, Byrne said (on the "More Songs" tour, while in San
Francisco) "We went from working from one of the most commercial producers in
the business to one of the most artistic."
Somebody asked if Byrne and Eno are still active friends. I wouldn't know...
Does Eno speak Spanish? :)
-Dean
John E. Bredehoft
marty lester <che...@tequilamockingbird.com> wrote:
>
>>I never have heard The Heads album, but I've enjoyed the Jerry Harrison
>>and Tom Tom Club stuff that I've heard (with the exception of "Gratuitous
>>Name-Dropping (James Brown James Brown)" or whatever that Tom Tom Club
>>hit was).
>
>that song...i think it must be adrian belew's guitar flying around and
>the female singers that does it for me...
>
>adrian does on "Worlds in Collision" from "The Red and the Black"
>(i may be mistaken on this album title, sorry...) by harrison?
>blows my mind to this day.
>
>off topic and loving it,
>marty.
>________________________________________
>che...@tequilamockingbird.com
>Making the World a Noisier Place
>
--
John E. Bredehoft
>
>marty lester wrote:
>
>> over-snipping happened: someone said...
>>
>> >I never have heard The Heads album, but I've enjoyed the Jerry Harrison
>> >and Tom Tom Club stuff that I've heard (with the exception of "Gratuitous
>> >Name-Dropping (James Brown James Brown)" or whatever that Tom Tom Club
>> >hit was).
>>
>> "Genius of Love" is the song you refer to...don't know why, but i love
>> that song...i think it must be adrian belew's guitar flying around and
>> the female singers that does it for me...
>>
>> speaking of belew and jerry harrison, don't you just love the solo
>> adrian does on "Worlds in Collision" from "The Red and the Black"
>> (i may be mistaken on this album title, sorry...) by harrison?
>> blows my mind to this day.
>>
>> marty.
>> ________________________________________
>> che...@tequilamockingbird.com
>> Making the World a Noisier Place
>
>
>
>
>the Heads ever wrote.
?
>I would say it's good despite that it's a
>
>love song.
>
>How about that?
Some of the "True Stories" stuff could be categorized as love songs.
"People Like Us" clearly deals in heartache. (Plus, it's John Goodman's
best acting role.)
>Jostein
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>[Alternative: text/html]
>-=-=-=-=-=-
John E. Bredehoft
>Apologies in advance; there isn't much Eno in this posting...
>
> Jostein Herredsvela <jost...@fi.uib.no> wrote:
>
>> -- Genius of Love is beautiful. It's probably the only love song
>>
>> the Heads ever wrote.
>
>good things, but the Heads didn't write it, the Tom Tom Club did. Byrne has
>never had anything to do with the Tom Tom Club.
which Byrne walked off the stage? (Harrison stayed.)
>Talking Heads wrote more "I'm not in love" - type songs than love songs, and
>there isnt' a single Talking Heads love song that exists only as that. That
>cliche was one that Byrne wanted to avoid and disavow, at least for several
>years. Same went for Eno, until "Lay my Love." (But even that song has a
>creepy undertone.) Post-"Speaking in Tongues," when they more than lost their
>vision of what made them great, there were some moves towards traditional
>love songs, but even those had a good deal of irony and multiple meanings.
>I'm thinking of songs like "Stay up Late," "The Lady Don't Mind," etc.
>Perhaps "Home / Naive Melody" is sort of a love song for an inanimate object,
>or concept, that being *home.*
"True Stories" is emotionally a love story. Strip away the twins and
everything else, and the basic story revolves around John Goodman's
character's aching heart.
>As a trivial anecdote, I met Byrne a couple of times, once at a nuclear
>disarmament rally in San Francisco. He confided, as if it were some secret,
>that the songs on "Little Creatures" were originally written for his original
>conception of "True Stories." How odd that they are superior to the songs
>that made it to the movie! He said he originally wanted to movie to be a
>collage of sequences in which outrageous stories from supermarket tabloids
>were presented as if they really were fact.
The final film *did* consist of things based on tabloid stories, but they
were integrated into a unified whole.
>I can't see how the "Little
>Creatures" songs fit that milieu, but it would have been fun. He made a good
>picture anyway.
Mukamuk
>
>>"The Red and the Black" (i may be mistaken on this album title, sorry...)
>> by harrison? blows my mind to this day.
>
>that, please let me know; I've never found it.) It's superior to all
>subsequent Harrison and Casual Gods releases. Nona Hendrix also contributed
>some very alluring vocals to "The Red and the Black" (you got the title
>right; it's a lift from Stendhal's famous novel.)
>
>-Dean
I have good (and probably frustrating) news for you... The Red And The Black
WAS issued on CD, but only in Europe (I think). I had long since given up
trying to find it, wasn't even looking for it, and one day while browsing the
random "H" section, THERE IT WAS.
Here's the info from the packaging, if it'll help you locate it.
The ISDN # under the barcode is: 7599-23631-2, and under that in smaller print
is WE 835. The CD is mainly credited to Sire, with other notes that say "Made
in Germany by Warner Music Manufacturing Europe". Also there's a little oval
that says LC (in a circle) 3228. All the artwork and the lyrics are included.
Good luck!
--Dan
Pupkin 81
>Does Eno speak Spanish? :)
>
>-Dean
Thats a stupid joke. "Rei Momo" is a great album. I did hear that Byrne called
Eno up to ask him if he'd do something on David's 1997 "Feelings" album but Eno
said that he "wasn't doing music at the moment". Hopefully they'll get
together again because, IMO, those two are the greatest collaborators in music
history...go ahead and slam me for it but thats how I feel.
Cecrle
I'd have to agree.
And I'd also like to point out that Byrne's _Feelings_ is a great album.
His solo material seems to get better with every release.
-FC
Cecrle
>Your knowledge impresses me, so I don't mean to argue, but I happen to >reject the notion that musical training makes one a musician.
I know what you mean, and I agree with you. All I meant was, maybe they
didn't think Tina was good enough to be in the band, she just couldn't
hack it, etc. so she took lessons and was then admitted.
I just meant she wasn't a shoe-in, thus a founding member....But your
points are good ones.
Anyone noticed how all songs on '77 are "written by Byrne...except 'Psycho
Killer', on which David got a little help from Chris and Tina." That's
not verbatim, but it's something like that. I just find it amusing that
the little credit they actually get comes so begrudingly!
But hey, like I said, Byrne was the man... :)
-FC
nopa...@yahoo.com
jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
> Was it "Stop Making Sense" that included a "Tom Tom Club" segment, during
> which Byrne walked off the stage? (Harrison stayed.)
Yes, as was appropriate. Also, on the prior tour, Jerry Harrison got to do a
couple of songs from "The Red and the Black." Jerry played melodica on one
tune.
nopa...@yahoo.com
> >Somebody asked if Byrne and Eno are still active friends. I wouldn't know...
> >Does Eno speak Spanish? :)
pupk...@aol.com (Pupkin 81) responded, humorlessly:
> Thats a stupid joke.
No, it was an informed and clever joke. Sorry you didn't like it.
> "Rei Momo" is a great album.
My joke was no insult to Mr. Byrne whatsoever, and never referenced that
album, which I also happen to enjoy. For your information, the principle
language in Brazil is Portugese, not Spanish. Rei Momo is Byrne's most
Brazillian-influenced album. My joke was well-intentioned. It appears you
read something into it that was never intended. Misunderstandings like this
are most understandable, though.
> I did hear that Byrne called
> Eno up to ask him if he'd do something on David's 1997 "Feelings" album but
Eno
> said that he "wasn't doing music at the moment".
Thank you for the anecdote. I didn't realize this. It seems to me that
"Feelings" is very far from any territory Eno might find compelling these
days, but then, so has U2 strayed, IMO.
> Hopefully they'll get
> together again because, IMO, those two are the greatest collaborators in music
> history...go ahead and slam me for it but thats how I feel.
I would never slam you for your enthusiasm for music, even if I disagreed.
Kindly refrain from slamming me for my humor.
-Dean, que ama el lenguaje español :)
nopa...@yahoo.com
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
> I'd have to agree.
Meaning that good Cecrle also misunderstood me, and took a little joke to be
some sort of criticism. Lighten up, folks! Geez!
> And I'd also like to point out that Byrne's _Feelings_ is a great album.
> His solo material seems to get better with every release.
I'd have to disagree in the extreme, but then, if it's true you're only 18,
your context of understanding would be very different from mine, as I'm 35.
You aren't old enough to have seen Byrne with T-Heads. He was better then in
most regards.
Anyway, opinions are opinions, and my disagreeing with yours is not a
judgement of you, ok?
Peace,
Dean
John Levin
influential in the New York downtown avant scene in the 60's and 70's. He
wrote the "libretto" and did the "mis-en-scene" for Einstein on the Beach,
for which Phil Glass wrote the music and which is an amazing piece of
music.
--John
p.s. I think Byrne was the Phil Glass of Wilson's Catherine Wheel and
that's where they met.
In article <6pvs24$6ip$1...@nw003t.infi.net>, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
> sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
> =
> >Probably true. Remember when Byrne started dressing like Robert Wilson
> >and even adopted his mannerisms?
>
> Nope--I'm only 18 (well, almost :). Who's Robert Wilson, and what are his
> mannerisms? How did Byrne come into contact with him?
>
>
> -FC
--
To reply, remove 'nospam.' from my email address.
jo...@nospam.sover.net
www.sovernet/~john
John Levin
Hey, this is the best thread I've seen on this NG in a while...
I think it is the same Modern Lovers, probably a reference to the first
album, which, by the way, was produced by John Cale, who didn't get to
produce the Talking Heads, as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Didn't Cale and Eno get in the same fight over Television?
--John
> In article <6q59bd$b3$3...@nw003t.infi.net>, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net>
wrote:
>(BTW--is that the "modern lovers" that Eno mentions in "The True Wheel"?)
--
South Central
choreography were by Twyla Tharp/the story and music were by David Byrne
(with the more cohesive "story" elements coming from Byrne (this
according to Tharp in an interview I read years ago).
Mateo
nopa...@yahoo.com
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
> Anyone noticed how all songs on '77 are "written by Byrne...except 'Psycho
> Killer', on which David got a little help from Chris and Tina." That's
> not verbatim, but it's something like that.
That was a reference to the French part of the lyrics, which indeed Chris and
Tina, who knew some French, helped David work out. They translate roughly so:
That's what I did / That night
That's what she said / That night
With the realization of my hope, I launch myself towards glory
As most probably already know, "qu'est-ce que c'est?" Means "what is this?"
> I just find it amusing that
> the little credit they actually get comes so begrudingly!
Yeah, it does read that way, doesn't it? But perhaps my l'il explanation will
make it seem less conceited.
> But hey, like I said, Byrne was the man... :)
With all due respect to the others, I'd have to agree.
-Dean
Cecrle
>As most probably already know, "qu'est-ce que c'est?" Means "what is >this?"
This or that, I think.
But you know all the "fa fa fa" stuff in the song? I thought that was a
stutter before saying, "far far better" but the lyrics list fa fa fa as
seperate stuff. It makes less sense to me that way--I took the "far far
better" stuff to be an example of the narrators' self-superiority and
alienation....not just, "Better run away." What do you think? Any chance
they meant it as "far far better"? P;ease say it's so!! :)
> > I just find it amusing that
>> the little credit they actually get comes so begrudingly!
>
>Yeah, it does read that way, doesn't it? But perhaps my l'il explanation will
>make it seem less conceited.
Yeah, it's generous, actually. But when a guy gets credit for writing a
song, does that mean he worked out the guitar, the drums, the bass, etc.?
I always wonder about that when a singer or someone gets credit for
"writing" a song...
-FC
Cecrle
>In article <6q7vgl$ns7$1...@nw003t.infi.net>,
> Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>
>
>some sort of criticism. Lighten up, folks! Geez!
Lighten up? Why, what'd I say?
>I'd have to disagree in the extreme, but then, if it's true you're only 18,
>your context of understanding would be very different from mine, as I'm 35.
>You aren't old enough to have seen Byrne with T-Heads. He was better then in
>most regards.
I agree his TH material is superior, but I'm talking about his solo stuff.
I am a big TH fan, you know...
>Anyway, opinions are opinions, and my disagreeing with yours is not a
>judgement of you, ok?
Huh? What are you talking about? You seem really edgy, man--that's the
impression I get from your posts. Sure you're not projecting? :)
-FC
DMB5561719
>nopa...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>In article <6q7vgl$ns7$1...@nw003t.infi.net>,
> Lighten up, folks! Geez!
>
>Lighten up? Why, what'd I say?
>>Anyway, opinions are opinions, and my disagreeing with yours is not a
>>judgement of you, ok?
>
>Huh? What are you talking about? You seem really edgy, man--that's the
>impression I get from your posts. Sure you're not projecting?
nopalito must have some issues to work out. Maybe he's
having problems at home.
nopa...@yahoo.com
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
I wrote:
> >Anyway, opinions are opinions, and my disagreeing with yours is not a
> >judgement of you, ok?
Cecerle responded:
> Huh? What are you talking about? You seem really edgy, man--that's the
> impression I get from your posts. Sure you're not projecting? :)
Yes, I'm positive. You seemed edgy to me, which is why I wanted to make it
clear I wasn't being contentious. I apologize if I misjudged you, and can
assure you that you misunderstood me, but I honestly only meant to be
friendly, as I'd think would be clear from other nice things I've said about
you. MY misunderstanding was that I thought you were agreeing with the person
who said "that's a stupid joke." I now understand that you shared that
person's enthusiasm for Byrne.
Peace,
nopa...@yahoo.com
jo...@nospam.sover.net (John Levin) wrote:
> p.s. I think Byrne was the Phil Glass of Wilson's Catherine Wheel and
> that's where they met.
Wilson had nothing to do with The Catherine Wheel. That was Twyla Tharp's
production. Byrne and Tharp were dating at the time. Byrne met Wilson most
likely as a result of being socialite art-heads in NYC during those heady
days, probably at a party at Andy Warhol or Yoko Ono's house. :)
-Dean
nopa...@yahoo.com
> Didn't Cale and Eno get in the same fight over Television?
I seem to recall that story, too. One thing I definately remember is that
Robert Fripp said, about the time that "Adventure" was released, that
Television were the best band of the hour because they featured two
outstanding lead guitarists who hated each other. Good ole Fripp, good ole
Television.
:) Dean
nopa...@yahoo.com
Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
> This or that, I think.
Look, I don't mean to be a pig, but "qu'est-ce que c'est" REALLY DOES mean
what I said it does, that is, "what is this?"
> But you know all the "fa fa fa" stuff in the song? I thought that was a
> stutter before saying, "far far better" but the lyrics list fa fa fa as
> seperate stuff.
I used to think that, too. In interviews Byrne has explained that "fa fa fa"
was a lift from an Otis Redding song. I don't remember the title, but the
subtitle actually is something like "fa fa fa song."
You make me feel old. :)
-Dean
DMB5561719
>In article <6q8e06$518$3...@nw001t.infi.net>,
> Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>
>> This or that, I think.
>
>Look, I don't mean to be a pig, but "qu'est-ce que c'est" REALLY DOES mean
>what I said it does, that is, "what is this?"
So there. He said so - so he's right and you're not.
PhilipB023
<< Talking Heads wrote more "I'm not in love" - type songs than love songs, and
there isnt' a single Talking Heads love song that exists only as that. >>
What about "This Must be the Place" from Speaking in Tongues?
Mark Mushet
>In article <6q7hf0$b...@thoth.portal.ca>,
> sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
>> A friend of mine was at RISD at this time and booked them for a dance.
>> Hardly anyone showed.
>Must've been Bee Gees fans. :)
Or hopelessly self-absorbed art students!
nopa...@yahoo.com
Funny you should mention that song, because I *did* elaborate on it in
exactly the post you quoted me from, above. I believe I got the title wrong,
though. I think I called it "Home / Naive Melody." In any case, my point is
that we agree. I'd suggest re-reading the post. Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Matt Heller
Tamazu...@webtv.net (South Central) correctly noted:
Ah, this is what happens when we go off-subject for a whole thread! Mateo
(and others) is right that Byrne/Wilson did not work on The Catherine
Wheel. What they *did* work on, however, is "Music for The Knee Plays",
apparently as part of a Robert Wilson work called "Civil Wars",
commissioned for the 1984 Olympics. From "apparently" onward is info
gleaned from the D.B. newsgroup a while back; I say "apparently" because
the album says it was "First Produced and Performed at the Walker Art
Center, Minneapolis, April 26, 27, 28, 1984." May have been a
premiere/trial run for the Olympics. As a BTW, the music was "inspired by
the Dirty Dozen Brass Band."
Matt Heller
Remove the NOSPAMME for real email contact
Pupkin 81
>and
>> there isnt' a single Talking Heads love song that exists only as that. >>
what about "Creatures of Love"?
nopa...@yahoo.com
"Hey, you Talking Heads! Can't you see I'm wallowing in angst while musing on
the symmetry of negative space in the portraiture of Egon Schiele?"
:) Dean
In article <6qagjp$s...@thoth.portal.ca>,
sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
> nopa...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >In article <6q7hf0$b...@thoth.portal.ca>,
> > sut...@portal.ca (Mark Mushet) wrote:
>
> >> A friend of mine was at RISD at this time and booked them for a dance.
> >> Hardly anyone showed.
>
> >Must've been Bee Gees fans. :)
>
> Or hopelessly self-absorbed art students!
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
John E. Bredehoft
>You seemed edgy to me,
Sounds like a true Byrne fan... :)
--
Theo Tres Thr3 "Motorcycle Radio" (copyright control):
http://users.deltanet.com/~jbredeho/tt3/motorad.mid
More songs at http://users.deltanet.com/~jbredeho/tt3/view.html
nopa...@yahoo.com
<psheadNOSPAMME-...@user-37kbnmn.dialup.mindspring.com>,
psheadN...@mindspring.com (Matt Heller) wrote:
> Ah, this is what happens when we go off-subject for a whole thread! Mateo
> (and others) is right that Byrne/Wilson did not work on The Catherine
> Wheel. What they *did* work on, however, is "Music for The Knee Plays",
> apparently as part of a Robert Wilson work called "Civil Wars",
> commissioned for the 1984 Olympics.
Wow, Matt gets it right! Go to the head of the class, sir. An additional
anecdote or two: Funding to perform the full "Civil Wars" collapsed, and if I
recall correctly, none of it was performed at the Olympics. Months later,
Byrne got funding to manifest "The Knee Plays" in MN.
>As a BTW, the music was "inspired by
> the Dirty Dozen Brass Band."
That is so. A Robert Wilson sketch was the cover art. ECM reportedly disowned
the work, which has never been released on CD, when they became uncomfortable
with the fact that much of the material was a little more than "inspired by"
other sources. New Orleans funerary brass was clearly credited by Byrne.
There was one track which I believe was titled "Theadora is Dozing," which
was a note-for-note rescoring of one of the tracks from the first "Mystere
des Voix Bulgares" recording, which was not yet released except on a small,
private French label at the time. Again, if I recall correctly, Byrne did
*roughly* credit the tune as being "traditional Bulgarian," but industry
rumor had it that ECM felt it was just too close for comfort. Why, I wouldn't
know, as such tunes are public domain, and Byrne didn't pretend to write it.
Perhaps this rumor was fabricated, but I remember hearing it a lot in the
80's.
-Dean
nopa...@yahoo.com
pupk...@aol.com (Pupkin 81) wrote:
> what about "Creatures of Love"?
Good point, but is that a traditional pop love song? I have to admit, and
will probably annoy people again (who, me?) with this, but I tend to think of
Talking Heads as being the band up until 1983. Everything after the
outstanding "Speaking in Tongues" was an increasing disappointment to me. I
thought "Naked" was more of a solo Byrne album, and by that point, their
original vision and connotations were thoroughly diffused, so, when I spoke
of Byrne disavowing love songs, what I meant was earlier Heads, and more
traditional sorts of love songs where one person is describing their love
interest. Anyway, your example is a good one in a broad sense.
nopa...@yahoo.com
jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
> In article <6q9qsg$ugo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <nopa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >You seemed edgy to me,
>
> Sounds like a true Byrne fan... :)
What's much worse than seeming edgy like him is that I sorta LOOK like him!
Hm, I'm obsessed with Latin music, too... Nah, he's a Scot and I'm
Italian-American. BIG difference.
:) Dean, who was ACTING edgy but has chilled out, like Byrne.
John E. Bredehoft
>In article <6qbf3a$sn6$1...@news01.deltanet.com>,
> jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
>> In article <6q9qsg$ugo$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <nopa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >You seemed edgy to me,
>>
>> Sounds like a true Byrne fan... :)
>
>What's much worse than seeming edgy like him is that I sorta LOOK like him!
>Hm, I'm obsessed with Latin music, too... Nah, he's a Scot and I'm
>Italian-American. BIG difference.
>
>:) Dean, who was ACTING edgy but has chilled out, like Byrne.
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
FENATIC
<<>along as friends. Well, until Tina Weymouth started publicly accusing Eno of
>trying to break up the band and taking credit for teamwork, anyway.
Yeah, I've read interviews/articles where she talks about that--how Byrne
and Eno would be off by themselves, how Byrne started dressing like Eno,
etc. You think there's much truth to this, or is she jealously
exaggerating?
BTW--are Eno and Byrne still friends at all?>>
well, I for one, dont have a whit of respect for the Tom Tom Club who Adrian
Belew was willing to publicly accuse of ripping him off for song writing
credits and royalties, as well as deleting one of his best solos ever. The
upside is Mariah Carey's huge hit that incorporated a sample of that album. I
was really agitated to think Belew was getting screwed again! It was a long
time before I found out he wrote the tune, and profited handsomely! Good work
Adrian!
John E. Bredehoft
FENATIC <fen...@aol.com> wrote:
>
><<>along as friends. Well, until Tina Weymouth started publicly accusing Eno of
>>trying to break up the band and taking credit for teamwork, anyway.
>
>Yeah, I've read interviews/articles where she talks about that--how Byrne
>and Eno would be off by themselves, how Byrne started dressing like Eno,
>etc. You think there's much truth to this, or is she jealously
>exaggerating?
>
>BTW--are Eno and Byrne still friends at all?>>
>
>well, I for one, dont have a whit of respect for the Tom Tom Club who Adrian
>Belew was willing to publicly accuse of ripping him off for song writing
>credits and royalties,
Publicly, it was stated that songs were written by "Tom Tom Club." What
did that mean in practicality? Did Chris and Tina get all the royalties?
>as well as deleting one of his best solos ever. The
>upside is Mariah Carey's huge hit that incorporated a sample of that album. I
>was really agitated to think Belew was getting screwed again! It was a long
>time before I found out he wrote the tune, and profited handsomely! Good work
>Adrian!
david schad
Gordon Dahlquist
On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 nopa...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In article <6pu9g4$fer$8...@news01.deltanet.com>,
> jbre...@deltanet.com wrote:
>
> >You can't deny that Byrne's contributions to the band have
> > clearly been emphasized, and the contributions of the other three
> > minimized to some extent.
>
> That is very true, and important to remember. OTOH, Byrne w(and is) a far
> better guitarist than he typically gets credit for. I saw the Heads many
> times between '78 and '83, and was always amazed at the musicianship of the
> entire band.
>
> > Supposedly it came to a head when Eno and
> > Byrne claimed credit for the "creative direction" of Remain in Light.
>
> It was worse than that. On the first issue of the album, some of the songs
> were credited as having been written by Byrne and Eno; in fact what happened
> is that the songs were created from jams, with no understanding of what
> lyrics might be added later. That work was done by Byrne and Eno without the
> other participating musicians after the music tracks were more or less
> completed in the Bahamas. Part of the point of the sessions was that
> composition was supposed to be communal. Subsequent issues of the album
> credit the other three Heads with composition as well, if I remember
> correctly.
Somewhat ironic is the fact that adrian belew rather bitterly announced
he'd never work with weymouth/frantz again after the 1st TTC album, as
in his opinion they made a point of claiming writing credit (and
royalties) for what were very much group compositions (and that this was
discovered somewhat after the fact when the album came out).
I also remember hearing some royalty/credit wierdness in reference to the
recent Heads album, specifically in reference to andy partridge ...
The whole money/credit thing has to be dicey anyways ... I seem to
remember a number of references in Year w/Swollen Apecidices where eno's
trying to get bowie (a notoriously parsimonious fellow) to talk about
money for Outside, and topic getting frequently deferred ...
Andrew Stewart
<gd...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>The whole money/credit thing has to be dicey anyways ... I seem to
>remember a number of references in Year w/Swollen Apecidices where eno's
>trying to get bowie (a notoriously parsimonious fellow) to talk about
>money for Outside, and topic getting frequently deferred ...
The situation there was that Outside didn't sell nearly as well as Eno
thought it would, so he didn't make as much money on his producer's
royalty as he expected. To compensate for this, he tried to get Bowie
to share the publishing royalties on songs that Eno wasn't involved in
writing, since notwithstanding the less-than-expected sales, the songs
were getting good airplay, being used in movies etc. etc., so Bowie
was making money on the writer's royalties. Rather surprisingly, Bowie
agreed to this eventually. I doubt any other artist would have. But
then Bowie has a track record of doling out writing credits for not
very much at all. He reportedly gave John Lennon a credit on "Fame"
for not doing much more than being the room when Bowie and Carlos
Alomar wrote it. He has also been unusually generous towards Iggy Pop,
giving him writing credits on music Iggy had no part in writing.
I sometimes wonder, though, if the reason Bowie dropped Eno so quickly
after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
(np: Best Of Bowie 69/74)
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Cecrle
>I sometimes wonder, though, if the reason Bowie dropped Eno so quickly
>after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
>was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
How can someone with SO much damn money be stingy? What can you even BUY
with all that fucking money? Doesn't seem like something worth getting
uptight about...
-FC
Andrew Stewart
Are you talking about Eno or Bowie? Both of them are
multi-millionaires.
SoEyeSpy
>>>after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
>>>was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
Since when did Bowie Drop Eno? Last I heard they're still working together on
future projects?
Cecrle
>On 16 Aug 1998 16:57:22 GMT, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>
>>and...@hotmail.com (Andrew Stewart) wrote:
>>
>>>after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
>>>was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
>>
>>with all that fucking money? Doesn't seem like something worth getting
>>uptight about...
>
>Are you talking about Eno or Bowie? Both of them are
>multi-millionaires.
Well, either one. I was referring to Bowie originally, but really....I
can see getting up-tight and asking for more money if you *need* it, if
you're struggling....But I think in their case it's just plain greed...
-FC
Gordon Dahlquist
> and...@hotmail.com (Andrew Stewart) wrote:
> >On 16 Aug 1998 16:57:22 GMT, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
> >
> >>and...@hotmail.com (Andrew Stewart) wrote:
> >>
> >>>I sometimes wonder, though, if the reason Bowie dropped Eno so quickly
> >>>after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
> >>>was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
> >>
> >>How can someone with SO much damn money be stingy? What can you even BUY
> >>with all that fucking money? Doesn't seem like something worth getting
> >>uptight about...
> >
> >Are you talking about Eno or Bowie? Both of them are
> >multi-millionaires.
>
> Well, either one. I was referring to Bowie originally, but really....I
> can see getting up-tight and asking for more money if you *need* it, if
> you're struggling....But I think in their case it's just plain greed...
nothing against bowie, but an example: earl slick played on the serious
moonlight tour instead of stevie ray vaughn (who'd done the album),
because bowie was only willing to pay vaughn scale ...
but this in light of the comment about him sharing writing credit easily
only makes for a more accurate view of a complex guy, probably ...
Andrew Stewart
<gd...@columbia.edu> wrote:
>On 17 Aug 1998, Cecrle wrote:
>
>> and...@hotmail.com (Andrew Stewart) wrote:
>> >On 16 Aug 1998 16:57:22 GMT, Cecrle <mce...@sbt.infi.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>and...@hotmail.com (Andrew Stewart) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>I sometimes wonder, though, if the reason Bowie dropped Eno so quickly
>> >>>after suggesting they would make four more albums together was that he
>> >>>was put off by Eno hassling him for more money all the time.
>> >>
>> >>How can someone with SO much damn money be stingy? What can you even BUY
>> >>with all that fucking money? Doesn't seem like something worth getting
>> >>uptight about...
>> >
>> >Are you talking about Eno or Bowie? Both of them are
>> >multi-millionaires.
>>
>> Well, either one. I was referring to Bowie originally, but really....I
>> can see getting up-tight and asking for more money if you *need* it, if
>> you're struggling....But I think in their case it's just plain greed...
>
>nothing against bowie, but an example: earl slick played on the serious
>moonlight tour instead of stevie ray vaughn (who'd done the album),
>because bowie was only willing to pay vaughn scale ...
As I recall, there was more to it than that. Vaughn suggested he
walked over money (which is difficult to believe as he presumably
agreed in advance what he was to get, and he walked only a few days
before the tour started, having completed rehearsals). However, other
people have suggested it had more to do with Vaughn's last minute
demand that his own band (Double Trouble) be the main support at each
show on the tour, and receive a fee of $100,000 a show. Bowie had
already lined up other support, so he refused.
There is also the suggestion that Vaughn baulked at the last minute at
Bowie's "No drugs, no drink" rule for the tour.
>but this in light of the comment about him sharing writing credit easily
>only makes for a more accurate view of a complex guy, probably ...
Another factor you have to realise is that despite generating vast
revenues in the 70s (most of which went into ex-manager Tony DeFries
pockets), Bowie emerged into the 80s almost broke. Seeing all these
other people getting rich on him was a galling experience, so he set
about setting himself financially up for life.
Having now done that, I think he's a lot more relaxed about money
these days. On his last tour, he played small club dates (which he
lost money on) to please the hardcore fans as well as larger festival
and stadium dates.
Globe
>lost money on) to please the hardcore fans as well as larger festival
>and stadium dates.
Very true. Here in Chicago, Bowie played one of the Miller Beer "you don't know
who the artist is until they get to the club" dates and the next day did an in
studio jam and interview session at WXRT.
Bowie spoke very fondly of Eno and even explained what it was like to work with
BE in the studio. Bowie said he'd simply have the band start jamming and take
it from there...pretty much write the songs as he was going along, but Eno
would dissect small portions of the songs and tweak and improve on them. Bowie
said Brian would get very much into each song as the work progressed.
He was laughing and joking about BE's technical prowess, and it sounded to me
as though they are still the best of friends.
Globe (Bob Lukens)