REVIEW: Kurt Neumann and friends, 12/5 (Part Two)
JMadrid710
Some BoDeans songs worked almost as well without the
harmony -- "Hell of a Chance," "Red River," and maybe "Hurt
by Love." But others ("Paradise," "Angels," and the encore
closer, "Idaho") sounded, well, naked without it in their
familiar, beloved arrangement. "Count on Me" would have
sounded fine had Neumann sung on-key.
There wasn't enough new material to figure out where Neumann's
heading with his new vision. Several songs revisited earlier
tinges of religion ("Absolution," "Mercy Man") and sexual innuendo
with a twist ("Do me if you want....to throw it all away"). As
presented, several songs would've sounded right at home on "Blend."
"Slip Away," though lyrics were tough to hear, sounded promising,
and the pre-encore closer, "Fadeaway," offered an intriguing
mid-section percussion duet between Neumann and his drummer that
forced listeners into a new take on this old favorite. Apart from
"Atlantic City," Neumann's solo contribution to a Bruce Springsteen
compilation, there were no covers to hint at Neumann's musical
influences or possible future direction.
The crowd (150?) was forgiving and supportive, if a bit bewildered.
Part of their generosity, I suspect , was genuine liking for Neumann
as a person, and part was probably a real hunger for BoDeans material
that's in short supply here these days.
My advice to Kurt Neumann, FWIW, would be to relax, focus on
his own skills and trust in them. And to analyze Llanas' choices,
and adapt those that seem to fit.
Llanas' solo path here has been less showy. He's chosen mostly
tiny clubs, and a minimum of advertising; a stripped-down sound
and a low-key atmosphere. He performs 3 or 4 token BoDeans songs
immediately, solo and acoustic -- but when his drummer and
guitarist walk on stage, his demeanor and setlist warn it would
be a major faux pas to request a BoDeans song at this point. And
if he doesn't have enough original material, he fills with
material from other artists (Randy Newman to Dolly Parton to Buddy
Holly) instead of forcing comparisons to his other band.
Such choices have undoubtedly lost him some BoDeans fans who
can identify only with that band's vibe. But they've brought
him the knowledge that his new material is accepted on its own
terms, instead of tolerated as filler between incomplete versions
of BoDeans songs.
A look back at Neumann's work in the BoDeans over the last decade
shows he has the talent, drive and creativity to succeed on his
own terms as well, if he so chooses. First, though, he must get
past the self-doubt that's keeping him from taking some well-chosen
risks.
I hope he does. I suspect that much of what he'd learn in the
struggle could be helpful to many of us as we wrestle with the
same issue in other areas of our lives -- if he were to write
about it.
Lori Grzybowski
"I know...it's only rock 'n' roll...but I like it."
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
Steve Heller
Interesting review, thanks for posting it. At least I can read of someone
going to see part of the band since they don't tour my area unless it is a
full-blown tour.
I also found it odd that even though they say they want to try their own
thing, Kurt and Sammy play shows with a lot of BoDeans songs or covers.
Either they are afraid to get away from BoDeans material thinking that is
what the fans want or they are afraid to admit that no matter what they do
solo, it is nothing compared to what they do together.
Anyway, nice job, and some good insights. Remember, at least you got to see
and hear Kurt live!
Steve Heller
hel...@mpowernet.com
"Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?" - Captain Oveur (Airplane!)
Jill Henley
FAYALEH wrote:
>
> Thanks to Lori for a well-written, intelligent, and sensitive review of Kurt's
> show.
Ditto.. and to Janey for forwarding it to the group... :-)
> (Though of course my heart is broken that it didn't go better. I know
> what it is to be on stage and well, it can be a real chore if your confidence
> is shaky. If that is indeed what Kurt was experiencing. Only he knows that
> answer to that.)
It seems to me that Kurt is always a little nervous when a show starts.
He tends to loosen up after a few songs, but early on he has a tendency
to hang back and not make eye contact. These solo shows must be hard for
him because Sammy always gives the appearance of being a real extrovert,
although I suspect that he may simply be a performer.. :-)
> I just hope he keeps trying to find his own way, not comparing himself to Sam
> or trying to do it Sam's way [sorry Lori, FWIW, I disagree with the advice of
> Kurt analyzing Sam's choices and adapting those that seem to fit. I think they
> are very different performers.].
I may be misinterpreting what Lori said, but I thought she meant Sam's
choices of minimizing BoDeans songs and going with his own music or
other covers. I don't think she necessarily meant Kurt should be
following Sam's lead with the songs he sings. (sorry Lori if I missed
the boat here..)... If Kurt focuses on BoDeans songs, then it will
simply be Bo without the 'Deans.... I'm sure he could do a great job
with some old rock'n'roll songs... :-)
> IMHO (as I'm sure many others), Kurt is a wonderful musician and song
> writer...very thoughtful. Hopes he finds his way East soon. [and when I'm
> free to go! ;) ditto for Sam.] There are a few of us here looking forward to
> hearing the new stuff.
There are a few of us looking to forward to seeing -any- stuff, new or
old. Colorado has the biggest chunk of fans outside of Wisconsin and
Illinois (and I don't just mean me and Janey), and they haven't even
dragged their solo or collective butts this far in a while....
--
"Be proud, not ashamed, of what makes you 'only human'" Jonathan Cainer
FAYALEH
Thanks to Lori for a well-written, intelligent, and sensitive review of Kurt's
what it is to be on stage and well, it can be a real chore if your confidence
is shaky. If that is indeed what Kurt was experiencing. Only he knows that
answer to that.)
Thanks to Janey for posting it. That was quite a bit of work.
The other reviews I read on the AOL board were mixed. One reviewer said that,
at one show, Kurt was snippy because the audience kept requesting BoDeans
songs and he didn't want to do any. Another implied that the Madison show was
terrific (yeeayh!).
I just hope he keeps trying to find his own way, not comparing himself to Sam
or trying to do it Sam's way [sorry Lori, FWIW, I disagree with the advice of
Kurt analyzing Sam's choices and adapting those that seem to fit. I think they
are very different performers.].
Lori is your review published anywhere? It's really well-thought out.
> I suspect that much of what he'd learn in the
>struggle could be helpful to many of us as we wrestle with the
>same issue in other areas of our lives -- if he were to write
>about it.
>
Here, here!
IMHO (as I'm sure many others), Kurt is a wonderful musician and song
writer...very thoughtful. Hopes he finds his way East soon. [and when I'm
free to go! ;) ditto for Sam.] There are a few of us here looking forward to
hearing the new stuff.
jo
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <66ianb$g...@examiner.concentric.net>,
"Steve Heller" <hel...@mpowernet.com> wrote:
>
Steve! Good to see you again -- gives me a chance to thank you for
getting this group going. Stick around?
>
> I also found it odd that even though they say they want to try their own
> thing, Kurt and Sammy play shows with a lot of BoDeans songs or covers.
> Either they are afraid to get away from BoDeans material thinking that is
> what the fans want or they are afraid to admit that no matter what they do
> solo, it is nothing compared to what they do together.
>
*what* they try. ;)
You raise an interesting point, though: what do we as fans want from
an artist, and how do we let them know? I always welcome new stuff
because it indicates they're still feeling creative, and not so upset
with industry pressure that they chuck it all and open a franchise
restaurant... But hollering "New stuff!" at a show would be kinda
silly, and quiet attention (ya can't sing along, after all!) is only
basic manners. (Admittedly, basic manners can be in short supply at
some of these shows.)
I've been kicking it around awhile and coming up empty. Thoughts?
Lori
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <19971209003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
fay...@aol.com (FAYALEH) wrote:
>
> Thanks to Lori for a well-written, intelligent, and sensitive review of Kurt's
> show. (Though of course my heart is broken that it didn't go better. I know
> what it is to be on stage and well, it can be a real chore if your confidence
> is shaky. If that is indeed what Kurt was experiencing.
explanation for something that made no sense to me.
> Thanks to Janey for posting it. That was quite a bit of work.
> The other reviews I read on the AOL board were mixed. One reviewer said that,
> at one show, Kurt was snippy because the audience kept requesting BoDeans
> songs and he didn't want to do any. Another implied that the Madison show was
> terrific (yeeayh!).
> I just hope he keeps trying to find his own way, not comparing himself to Sam
> or trying to do it Sam's way [sorry Lori, FWIW, I disagree with the advice of
> Kurt analyzing Sam's choices and adapting those that seem to fit. I think they
> are very different performers.].
> Lori is your review published anywhere? It's really well-thought out.
Thank you! This was just for you guys, though I wrote a few reviews for
some fanzines I think have gone under. I also see K. and S. as very
different performers; I don't think K gets the same charge out of
connecting with individuals in the audience S seems to, and I don't think
solo acoustic would suit K (though it would be helpful in understanding
those sensitive lyrics faster!). I'd like to see K analyze his own
strengths, (those you listed, plus his innovative instrumentation and
stellar band leadership) as S did, and build a strong foundation for his
non-BoDeans work, also as S. did, by playing to what would work in those
formats, rather than trying to meld what worked for the BoDeans onto new
project. Small blues gigs, as he once mentioned in an interview?
Another rock band, perhaps with female vocalist for harmony? Movie
scores? Production, or collaboration with other artists? I'm not sure,
but I'd like to see him find his way.
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <348CC8...@ix.netcom.com>,
gill...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> FAYALEH wrote:
> It seems to me that Kurt is always a little nervous when a show starts.
> He tends to loosen up after a few songs, but early on he has a tendency
Mmm hmm. I don't think I've ever seen him make genuine eye contact
with audience members from stage. Not a criticism, just an observation.
> > I just hope he keeps trying to find his own way, not comparing himself to Sam
> > or trying to do it Sam's way [sorry Lori, FWIW, I disagree with the advice of
> > Kurt analyzing Sam's choices and adapting those that seem to fit. I think they
> > are very different performers.].
>
> choices of minimizing BoDeans songs and going with his own music or
> other covers. I don't think she necessarily meant Kurt should be
> following Sam's lead with the songs he sings. (sorry Lori if I missed
> the boat here..)... If Kurt focuses on BoDeans songs, then it will
> simply be Bo without the 'Deans.... I'm sure he could do a great job
> with some old rock'n'roll songs... :-)
much more gracefully. And you're right: I've heard him do a bang-up
job on Elvis' "Trying to Get to You" and a few other choice covers.
I hope he does adapt one of Sam's strategies, though, at least at first.
I'd think the smaller gig would mean fewer people screaming for "Closer
to Free," and let him feel safer in trying new stuff.
> There are a few of us looking to forward to seeing -any- stuff, new or
> old. Colorado has the biggest chunk of fans outside of Wisconsin and
> Illinois (and I don't just mean me and Janey), and they haven't even
> dragged their solo or collective butts this far in a while....
does feel pretty petty for having the nerve to gripe at all...
FAYALEH
>> FAYALEH wrote:
>> It seems to me that Kurt is always a little nervous when a show starts.
>> He tends to loosen up after a few songs, but early on he has a tendency
>> to hang back and not make eye contact. [snip]
Hmmm...I never wrote that. But to put in a good word for the boy, he once got
off the stage and played guitar directly in front of one of my friends. Not
common from what I take but a big moment for my friend. It still makes him
smile when I bring it up. Makes me smile too. See: :) (Still love that
smiley face thing)
jo
FAYALEH
In article ><19971209003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Lori ( and me) writes:
>> The other reviews I read on the AOL board were mixed. One reviewer said
>that,
>> at one show, Kurt was snippy because the audience kept requesting BoDeans
>> songs and he didn't want to do any. Another implied that the Madison show
>was
>> terrific (yeeayh!).
>I know; we fans are an ungrateful bunch who don't know what we want.;)
Ha ha, no I bet the shows themselves were mixed (that's how I interpreted it).
Some shows go better than others. That's all.
I am certainly grateful to you for the original posts. Gave me alot of food
for thought. I love that.
Regarding my comment:
>[sorry Lori, FWIW, I disagree with the advice of
>> Kurt analyzing Sam's choices and adapting those that seem to fit. I think
>they
>> are very different performers.].
I guess my concern at the time was ( and I concede it may have been an
unfounded and unnecessary concern) in comparing their solo stuff, one to
another, at all. That's why I initially disagreed with the comment. But the
points you made in the previous post (too many good ones to cut into this post)
were really sound and I find myself agreeing them. I am looking forward to
seeing both of them as solo acts (if they make it out this way) and I expect
totally different shows. Maybe I'll get to see them after all the bugs are
worked out. <tee hee, big G>
jo
Jill Henley
FAYALEH wrote:
>
> >> FAYALEH wrote:
> >> It seems to me that Kurt is always a little nervous when a show starts.
> >> He tends to loosen up after a few songs, but early on he has a tendency
> >> to hang back and not make eye contact. [snip]
>
> Hmmm...I never wrote that.
Ahh.. that would have been me.. :-)
And in regard to your other post Jo, are there -any- 'Deans songs not in
standard tuning....? One of the reasons I love their songs is they can
take three (or two or four) basic chords and turn them into something
magnificent..
:-)
Jill
Steve Heller
>Steve! Good to see you again -- gives me a chance to thank you for
>getting this group going. Stick around?
Wow, you remember me? I know I haven't posted in awhile, though I do read it
at least twice a week (stupid firewall at work so I have to read it at
home). I really can't take credit for starting the group though, I just
inquired about why there wasn't one and someone else created it for me.
>Or else they figure they can't win with ornery fans like us no matter
>*what* they try. ;)
>You raise an interesting point, though: what do we as fans want from
>an artist, and how do we let them know? I always welcome new stuff
>because it indicates they're still feeling creative, and not so upset
>with industry pressure that they chuck it all and open a franchise
>restaurant... But hollering "New stuff!" at a show would be kinda
>silly, and quiet attention (ya can't sing along, after all!) is only
>basic manners. (Admittedly, basic manners can be in short supply at
>some of these shows.)
>I've been kicking it around awhile and coming up empty. Thoughts?
>Lori
I think it is tough for them. Personally if Kurt Neumann and Friends played
Cincinnati, I would most definitely be there with a BoDeans hat on, up
front, hoping to hear some BoDeans. But, I would also like to hear some
music that makes him tick. Something different from what he usually plays,
something that makes him happy. Of course, maybe he loves playing BoDeans
song all the time. Who knows?
However (isn't there always a however), if I lived in Milwaukee or
thereabouts and could see Kurt, Sammy, Nick or Bob play regularly then maybe
my mind set would be different. If I knew that I could see a BoDeans show
three times a year then one night of just Sammy playing solo original stuff
and obscure covers would be very, very cool. Even though BoDeans do play
Cincinnati quite a bit more than other surrounding cities, the odds are
extremely slim that I will see any of them performing solo, so my take is a
little different than all of yours.
On another note that has nothing to do with this thread: What ever happened
to that PBS video that was aired last year in their neck of the woods? Is it
for sale anywhere (I haven't found it on the Internet)? If someone has it,
would they be willing to make me a copy?
Good to see so much talk in this newsgroup, half a year ago I thought it was
dead.
FAYALEH
Hey guys,
Steve writes:
>Personally if Kurt Neumann and Friends played
>Cincinnati, I would most definitely be there with a BoDeans hat on, up
>front, hoping to hear some BoDeans. But, I would also like to hear some
>music that makes him tick. Something different from what he usually plays,
>something that makes him happy.
>if I lived in Milwaukee or
>thereabouts and could see Kurt, Sammy, Nick or Bob play regularly then maybe
>my mind set would be different. If I knew that I could see a BoDeans show
>three times a year then one night of just Sammy playing solo original stuff
>and obscure covers would be very, very cool.
Ditto for me if you substitute Prov./Boston/Hartford for Cincinnati. I would
love to hear Kurt do some solo BoDeans songs with a different twist; perhaps
trying different rhythms or lyrics with some of the older stuff. The new stuff
includes songs he didn't think would work for BoDeans so, when I heard that, my
guess is he's going for a different sound. This really interests me.
And it is difficult when you don't see them on any regular basis. I just
passed the one year mark with no future dates in site.
So my question is, how do we let them (Kurt or Sam) know what we want to hear
when they do arrive to do a show? Or doesn't it matter? Since they are the
performer, should we just let them decide what they want to play without any
input from the audience? Or does the thrill of live interaction between
performer and audience include the audience shouting out what it wants to
hear? If the latter is a possibility, what happens when each audience member
has a different idea of what the show should contain, resulting in too many
different ideas being shouted at the performer. How does he pick and choose
without angering some in the audience?
I've been kicking these questions around all weekend and haven't come up with
an answer. Unless an audience survey is filled out prior to the show (and I'm
being ridiculous here) how else does the performer know what the audience
wants? Or, again, does it matter?
jo
FAYALEH
Even after that long previous post, I think I need to clarify one point:
>how else does the performer know what the audience
>wants? Or, again, does it matter?
I do not under any circumstances mean that the audience doesn't matter. The
audience is always an integral part of any live performance and I don't believe
any performer should perform in spite of the audience, paying or otherwise.
I am curious to know people's thoughts as to "how" integral an audience is or
should be in choosing the material for a performance.
jo again
Sheltmore
In article <19971215120...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, fay...@aol.com
(FAYALEH) writes:
>Unless an audience survey is filled out prior to the show (and I'm
being
>ridiculous here)
Great idea, Jo. Rock and roll democracy. I love it!
SSSSylvia!!!!!!
JMadrid710
Jo writes:
>So my question is, how do we let them (Kurt or Sam) know what we want to hear
>when they do arrive to do a show? Or doesn't it matter? Since they are the
>performer, should we just let them decide what they want to play without any
>input from the audience? Or does the thrill of live interaction between
performer and > audience include the audience shouting out what it wants to
hear?
>
I am just one lowly fan, but I feel that what they audience wants does matter
to them. But I notice that at every show the vibes are a little different.
How they interact with the audience and with each other seems to change like
the weather. I usually go by gut instinct and what kind of mood each one is in
at the time. They are pretty easy to read (at least Sam is), so I know how I
will interact with them and whether to yell requests right out of the gate.
That's when I'm lucky enough to get front and center, well I usually get front
and a little to the right ;)
When I first got online and learned more about them thru newsgroups, folders,
and chats, I must admit I was a little taken aback by some of their remarks and
attitudes. But the music is what brought me here, and I have to learn to
separate art from artist which I sometimes have trouble doing. I have to
admit, I still get a little wiped out after the shows, not being a fan as long
as most of you, but it's nothing that a little prozac and a polo mallet won't
take care of. Hey, it works for Woody Allen! LOL
I am not privileged to live in the Milwaukee area either, but if they did solo
shows out here, I think that is what I would expect, and I definitely wouldn't
shout out lots of BoDeans requests, although as Jo says, it would be great to
hear them done with a new twist. If Kurt was playing I would not be yelling
for him to do Sam stuff, or the other way around. I think that's horribly
rude. As Kurt said in CA, I think--When one guy is trying to play and sing and
you are yelling for another guy, it makes him feel like s#$@. That makes for a
bad experience for both performer and audience.
I see a lot of parallels to Lennon and McCartney when they started there solo
careers. Of course Sam and Kurt's friendship has held up a lot better which is
amazing considering how they have lived for the past 12 yrs. BoDeans, and
that includes Bobby and Nicky, will always be beloved to the fans and it's fun
to go and hear all the fantastic old familiar songs. I feel secure in the fact
that I will be seeing many more of these shows, but I am also looking forward
to hearing the new material both recorded and live. They are enormously
talented and I believe that they have a wonderful future, both solo and
together.
Question: how does one sit down during a BoDeans concert? I have never quite
mastered it. Oh yeah, only during the unplugged Only Love, and I just barely
got to the edge of my seat on that one.
Janey out to catch more rays
Jill Henley
FAYALEH wrote:
> So my question is, how do we let them (Kurt or Sam) know what we want to hear
> when they do arrive to do a show?
1) Tattoo favorite song on chest
2) Sneak on to stage and substitute set list with new list containing
everything you want to hear
3) Be very friendly to roadies and slip a note to be delivered to
performer
4) Take brightly patterned sign with song name and hold in view of
performer... discreetly, of course...
Of course, 1) and 2) are very firmly tongue in cheek, but 3) and 4) are
proven techniques that work....
But in all seriousness, I think that the performer has no responsibility
to the audience to respond to requests, unless he or she gets
inspiration from interaction with the audience. The best shows I have
ever seen are when the performer ditches the setlist and just kinda goes
with what works... haven't seen the BoDeans do that... but there's a
great sense of spontaneity that you can hear in Far, Far Away on JDC,
which apparently -was- sung by audience request...
If I was a psychologist, I'd be willing to bet that it would be easier
to get Sam to stray off the set list than Kurt...
:-)
Jill - who is -not- a bad influence.. except sometimes... :-)
Sheltmore
>Take brightly patterned sign with song name and hold in view of
performer.
Actually we tried this on the last tour and met with less than positive
response from them." we're not playing that fucking song." Perhaps it was the
particular song we chose, so try it... if you dare.
JMadrid710
Jilly says:
>1) Tattoo favorite song on chest
Ouch! But if that'll do it. Of course I don't think Far Far Away would fit.
Not on my chest anyway. How about Sylvia?? Then I would have to go thru life
with a girl's name on my chest.....
Jilly, maybe you and Kurt could show each other your tattoos. Now who's a bad
influence? Ya know I'm just teasin. You are all my good friends, I never mean
to offend.
>If I was a psychologist, I'd be willing to bet that it would be easier
>to get Sam to stray off the set list than Kurt...
I agree. Anyway, if he doesn't cooperate, it's always fun to see how he
responds, what his reply will be, i.e. the wedding band remark. I keep trying
All I Ever Wanted. That's one song off of Blend that they don't seem to do
live.
So should I try Jilly's 4 step plan with L&N as well??
Janey
JMadrid710
In article <19971217203...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, shel...@aol.com
(Sheltmore) writes:
>Actually we tried this on the last tour and met with less than positive
>response from them." we're not playing that fucking song." Perhaps it was the
>particular song we chose, so try it... if you dare.
Oooh, I'm not requesting 69 Blues, ever. We tried DoIDo in Taos. Which they
did....not!
Leann, don't give up, I think something was going on with Sam at the beginning
of that tour. Just my opinion. Maybe lousy health?? I think it was the mardi
grass beads that did it for Kurt.
Gotta go, those zany Barenaked Ladies will be arriving shortly.
Janey
Steve Heller
>> So my question is, how do we let them (Kurt or Sam) know what we want to
hear
>> when they do arrive to do a show?
>
Sounds great. Except I'd love to hear "Sylvia" and my wife's name is not
Sylvia. That would be kinda tough to explain. Although I have made her a
BoDeans fan...
>2) Sneak on to stage and substitute set list with new list containing
>everything you want to hear
Being that I am a male, sneaking on stage would probably not really help me
in the eyes of the band.
>3) Be very friendly to roadies and slip a note to be delivered to
>performer
Geez, how friendly do I have to get?
>4) Take brightly patterned sign with song name and hold in view of
>performer... discreetly, of course...
How about if I just yell out: "Play the damn song about the cat already!"?
>But in all seriousness, I think that the performer has no responsibility
>to the audience to respond to requests, unless he or she gets
>inspiration from interaction with the audience. The best shows I have
>ever seen are when the performer ditches the setlist and just kinda goes
>with what works... haven't seen the BoDeans do that... but there's a
>great sense of spontaneity that you can hear in Far, Far Away on JDC,
>which apparently -was- sung by audience request...
What band plays spontaneously anymore? I just saw the Stones on DirectTv the
other day and they had that Internet vote thing. Neat, but they already knew
what song won and had memorized them all anyway in my opinion.
I used to write reviews for my web site (which hopefully will start up
again) and after shows I would get some information from the sound guys
including the set list and there were no instances of the bands playing more
than what was on the list. I did see a couple times where a couple songs
were not played though. The shows by bigger bands (Stones, etc...) are
always *exactly* what the set list was. I'm sure bands like Phish play on
and on and on and on but I really don't like their stuff anyway.
JMadrid710
In article <19971217205...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jmadr...@aol.com
(I) write:
>How about Sylvia?? Then I would have to go thru life with a girl's name on
>my chest.....
How would I explain that to my husband? No, honey it's not another woman, just
a crazy record scratchin, guitar playin kitty cat! Sylvia reminds me of
Toonces (sp) the cat that could drive (off cliffs) on SNL a few years back.
I have 4 cats and they are ALL like Sylvia. Give this girl a rest!
JB
FAYALEH
>From: Jill Henley <gill...@sagus.com>
>1) Tattoo favorite song on chest
OUCH! How about my backside? It's definitely my better side. LOL
>The best shows I have
>ever seen are when the performer ditches the setlist and just kinda goes
>with what works... haven't seen the BoDeans do that...
Sometimes on JDC, at the end or beginning of songs, you can hear them ask each
other "What do you want to do now?" or "How about...?" (Right now, I can't
remember which song they do that on) Anyhow, sounded kind of spontaneous to
me.
> but there's a
>great sense of spontaneity that you can hear in Far, Far Away on JDC,
>which apparently -was- sung by audience request...
I was at a show where Sam took an audience request. He singled out a guy he
remembered from a previous show and asked him what he wanted to hear. The
group next to me, which kept screaming "Red River", was totally ignored.
Hmmm...so I guess that method should be stricken as an option. ;)
>But in all seriousness, I think that the performer has no responsibility
>to the audience to respond to requests, unless he or she gets
>inspiration from interaction with the audience.
Yep, I agree. No responsibility or obligation.
Though I think it's a good idea for a performer to get a sense of what the
audience is interested in. It seems to be the only way for them to know what
the listeners are responding to, in terms of the new music, and what the
listeners are remembering and still enjoying from the older stuff.
Unless of course, they try for that audience survey thing. Hmmm...wonder what
they would ask? Any ideas Ssssylvia? :)
There's no doubt though in my mind however...an audience, and its behavior,
will definitely affect the outcome of a performance. The beauty of doing it
live!
Happy holiday preparations to all...! (My first Christmas party *sans
children* is tonight. Yeeha!)
jo
Jill Henley
JMadrid710 wrote:
> Jilly, maybe you and Kurt could show each other your tattoos. Now who's a bad
> influence?
Hmmm... I'd just like to say that I have -no- tattoos.... heck, I'm too
wimpy to even get my ears pierced... actually I'd like to raetin all my
nerve endings because you never knwo when you might need them.... :-)
> So should I try Jilly's 4 step plan with L&N as well??
One way to find out, grrrrrrrrrl.... based on the size and layout of the
Fox, I'd go for the roadie route.... and, to whoever asked, the roadie
thing actually works -better- for guys than it does for girls, because
guys are generally perceived as just being interested in the music and
not the guys in the band...
:-)
Jill
Lownavfan
>Hmmm... I'd just like to say that I have -no- tattoos.... heck, I'm too wimpy
>to even get my ears pierced... actually I'd like to raetin all my nerve
>endings because you never knwo when you might need them.... :-)
Yikes, I'm not even goin down that road....
Jilly is speaking in anagrams (sort of) and I'm gooood at them, always lain em
on Jaeprody!
Josh Chasin
I saw the Bodeans in '91 at the tail end of their east coast tour, in this
student union at some college in Jersey-- I swear, basketball hoops and
everything! There were maybe 200 people there. After 2 songs-- and they
were obviously bummed at playing this dive-- Kurt said, "so, you like us
yet, or are you still checking us out or what?" As he said this I yelled
out "Paridise!" (the opening chords were being played by Ramos and Kurt did
a take, smiled, and said "Oh-- you konow us?" From there the show turned--
they realized that this was a collection of true fans-- and they did ll
kinds of impromtu stuff... Kurt told how he and Sammy started out in the
window of a store in Milwaukee playing Elvis songs, and the two of 'em did
an acoustic rendition of an Elvis song... for encores Sammy said a girl
asked for this song, and they did "Far Far Away From My Heart" (unplayed on
the tour). The best, though, was also in the encores when someone yelled
"Showdown at Big Sky." Suddenly the band launched into a kickass version,
starting at the chorus; when the chorus was over, they stopped. "Hey man, "
said Sammy, "That's all we did!"
Gret and memorable show...
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <671ktl$h...@examiner.concentric.net>,
"Steve Heller" <hel...@mpowernet.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, you remember me? I know I haven't posted in awhile, though I do read it
> at least twice a week (stupid firewall at work so I have to read it at
> home). I really can't take credit for starting the group though, I just
> inquired about why there wasn't one and someone else created it for me.
>
And I'm glad you asked about starting a group and got the ball rolling.
(where *are* all those other Good Things alumni? Can't get the alt.
groups?)
>
> I think it is tough for them. Personally if Kurt Neumann and Friends played
> Cincinnati, I would most definitely be there with a BoDeans hat on, up
> front, hoping to hear some BoDeans. But, I would also like to hear some
> music that makes him tick. Something different from what he usually plays,
> song all the time. Who knows?
> However (isn't there always a however), if I lived in Milwaukee or
> thereabouts and could see Kurt, Sammy, Nick or Bob play regularly then maybe
> my mind set would be different. If I knew that I could see a BoDeans show
> three times a year then one night of just Sammy playing solo original stuff
> Cincinnati quite a bit more than other surrounding cities, the odds are
> extremely slim that I will see any of them performing solo, so my take is a
> little different than all of yours.
>
agree. (BoDeans haven't played Milwaukee now for a year -- the days
of 3 shows a year are long gone.) Don't get me wrong; I'm the happiest
one in the place if the BoDeans play "Still the Night" or "When the
Love is Good." I don't want a whole night of new music from any artist,
but I like a couple, even if it turns out I hate them and they crowd
out a few of my faves -- I like hearing part of the creative process.
In Kurt's case, I think if he didn't have the new stuff, he could've
chosen a few more unfamiliar BoDeans songs ("Stella," "Delighted"
or other B-sides and earlier rejects) or covers for a stronger show.
Lori
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <19971215120...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
fay...@aol.com (FAYALEH) wrote:
>
[some excellent questions about audience/performer interaction, and
the place audience requests have in that interaction, snipped for space]
>
Jo, I found your post thought-provoking, and hope you don't mind my
taking your question on specifics (letting Kurt & Sam know what we
want) to the more general issue of performer/audience interaction.
....
I tend to agree with Rick Nelson's take on the question in his 1972
song, "Garden Party": "You can't please everyone so you've got to
please yourself."
....
For you young'uns who've never heard this great song (which I think
all musicians should listen to, in their own best interest!), it's the
true story of a former teen idol playing a 1971 rock 'n' roll revival
at Madison Square Garden, who gets booed for having the audacity to try
some new things (though he *did* sing "Hello, Mary Lou" and his other
old hits). It's also noted for its final line: "If memories were all
I sang, I'd rather drive a truck."
....
See, I was only half-joking when I wrote that we fans are a contrary
bunch who don't know what we want. I think we tend to lose respect
for -- or interest in -- performers who stick to what's worked before
because they stagnate, and become bored with themselves. OTOH, by
completely ignoring audience expectations, a performer is likely to
alienate his fan base, who based their expectations on a connection
made earlier. The best shows, IMO, are those where a performer and the
audience connect so well that they generate that magic... A tough
balancing act...
The BoDeans orchestrate their shows very well, with setlist, lighting,
and sometimes surprising arrangements that make for great drama. But
I've also seen them generate that incredible excitement when they ask
"so what do you guys wanna hear?" and ditch any pretense of a setlist.
....
So should we make requests? I'd think most performers are flattered
to get them and would try to honor those that don't interfere with the
show. But we in the audience have to realize not all requests can or
should be honored, and that ultimately, it's the performer's choice
because it's his livelihood on the line.
Lori (still wondering how to request "new stuff") :)
Steve Heller
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu wrote in message
<883167747....@dejanews.com>...
>In article <671ktl$h...@examiner.concentric.net>,
> "Steve Heller" <hel...@mpowernet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow, you remember me? I know I haven't posted in awhile, though I do read
it
>> at least twice a week (stupid firewall at work so I have to read it at
>> home). I really can't take credit for starting the group though, I just
>> inquired about why there wasn't one and someone else created it for me.
>>
>Sure, I remember your review distributed over the Good Things list.
>And I'm glad you asked about starting a group and got the ball rolling.
>(where *are* all those other Good Things alumni? Can't get the alt.
>groups?)
Man, I remember the Good Things list. I had forgotten about it since it
hasn't been around for awhile. I was soooo excited to find anything about
the BoDeans on the Internet and that mailing list and Dave Stagl's related
Web site were about it. Then Dave stopped doing it because he got pissed
that Matt Sims made his own web page and sort of made it a contest versus
Dave. Then Matt disappeared. I wonder if Dave is still around.
Hmm..maybe I can take over from Matt and start up my web page again. Any
interest out there? Of course, being in Cincinnati, I would need tons of
help on what is happening with the band. Something to think about for '98 I
guess.
FAYALEH
>From: "Steve Heller" <hel...@mpowernet.com>
>Message-ID: <683365$8...@examiner.concentric.net>
>Man, I remember the Good Things list. I had forgotten about it since it
>hasn't been around for awhile.>
Please, for us newbies, what is "the Good Things list"?
> I was soooo excited to find anything about
>the BoDeans on the Internet >
I agree. First thing I looked up on the Internet. Well, maybe not the first
but since I can't remember what the first thing was, I guess this was the first
really interesting thing. :)
>Hmm..maybe I can take over from Matt and start up my web page again. Any
>interest out there?>
My hand is raised! Although I wouldn't be able to provide any info (RI is
pretty far removed)...I'd sure help out any way I could. It'd be great to have
another site.
Happy New Year.
jo
FAYALEH
>From: lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
>Message-ID: <883175592....@dejanews.com>
>Jo, I found your post thought-provoking, and hope you don't mind my
>taking your question on specifics (letting Kurt & Sam know what we
>want) to the more general issue of performer/audience interaction.
Not at all. Actually, I was hoping it would go in that direction. I think the
topic is really interesting.
Lori, you make some great comments regarding the interaction between performer
and audience. It is a balancing act. And when the balance is struck...it is
magic!
But in the end, I do agree it is the performer who should make the decision as
to what is played, although many audience members will feel that since they
paid the price of admission (including purchasing the CD) then the show should
be about what they want to hear.
This point of view is not without value. The performer relies on the audience
to make a living. You gotta give 'em what they want...within reason. I guess
I sometimes get the feeling the an audience feels that they *own* the performer
and the performer is there for *their (the audience's)* benefit. I think this
point of view is out of line.
>So should we make requests?>
I believe we should...but at the appropriate time. I don't think it's right to
be screaming for a song while another is being played, simply because you're
not interested in that particular song. I like Sylvia's idea of giving
requests to the crew but, again at the appropriate time. These people are
busying setting up and it's alot of work. If someone is tuning a guitar,
that's surely *not* the time to ask them to give the band a message. ;)
For me, I think the bottom line is respect...on both sides. If an audience
respects a performer, then they will trust hearing new material and will be
considerate as to when to request songs during a performance (for instance,
between numbers). And of course, showing great approval (by applauding), when
a song you like is played, is another way to respectfully let a performer know
what you want.
On the same token (OTST?), if a performer respects his/her audience, s/he will
interact with them, listen to them, and try to deliver, to a certain extent,
what they want. The performer has to control the show though. An audience is
a conglomerate of many different people/viewpoints/wants. The performer has to
be the fielder and the decider or it's just chaos.
I wonder if, during a break between songs, someone should yell "Do you take
requests?" Then we'd know for sure, wouldn't we?
<G>
> (still wondering how to request "new stuff") :)
How about yelling "NEW STUFF...NEW STUFF...NEW STUFF"? LOL Actually, that
may not be a bad idea.
>The BoDeans orchestrate their shows very well, with setlist, lighting,>
I do agree. However (isn't there always a 'however') the last time they played
around here, someone had a lavender/purple gel in the lighting design combined
with a 'paisley design' gobo (sp.?). On Sam's skin tone, lavender/purple gels
turn the skin tone to green and with the gobo design, he looked as if he was
ill. Amber gels for him...it will give him a healthy glow. Just my .02 cents
but hey, it's part of what I do for a living...I tend to notice these things.
:)
Happy New Year to All! This is such a long post you'll probably be reading it
into the new year.
My best,
jo
Steve Heller
FAYALEH wrote in message <19971228003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Please, for us newbies, what is "the Good Things list"?
It was a mailing list (not discussion list) that David Stagl, who was in
college at Northwestern I believe, put out to keep BoDeans fans interested
in what was happening with the band. There were quite a few subscribers
(50-100 I think). But you had to submit stuff to David before it made the
list, so generally we got tour dates, concert reviews and updates and that
was it. Then he got busy, Matt Sims tried to take over by doing his web site
and eventually Good Things died.
It's too bad because David was a real nice guy who just got too busy to do
it, especially as the interest in having more BoDeans stuff on the list
picked up.
I realized today that I did not see BoDeans at all in 1997! :( First time in
about 3 years. Hopefully this will be corrected in '98.
Jill Henley
Steve Heller wrote:
> I realized today that I did not see BoDeans at all in 1997! :( First time in
> about 3 years. Hopefully this will be corrected in '98.
Me too.... I missed the State Fair show this year and had to live
vicariously through Janey.... I'm with Steve in looking forward to '98
and a road trip or two....
And Steve, yes on the web page, since neither David nor Matt is carrying
the torch any more...
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <683365$8...@examiner.concentric.net>,
"Steve Heller" <hel...@mpowernet.com> wrote:
>
> Man, I remember the Good Things list. I had forgotten about it since it
> the BoDeans on the Internet and that mailing list and Dave Stagl's related
> Web site were about it. Then Dave stopped doing it because he got pissed
> that Matt Sims made his own web page and sort of made it a contest versus
> Dave. Then Matt disappeared. I wonder if Dave is still around.
> Hmm..maybe I can take over from Matt and start up my web page again. Any
> help on what is happening with the band. Something to think about for '98 I
> guess.
updated since "Blend" came out, I think. I could send news from local
press, and write reviews, if you want, after I get back on-line. (I'll
be going off sometime in January for upgrade/new server...)
Lori
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <19971228012...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
fay...@aol.com (FAYALEH) wrote, in response to me:
>
> But in the end, I do agree it is the performer who should make the decision as
> to what is played, although many audience members will feel that since they
> paid the price of admission (including purchasing the CD) then the show should
> be about what they want to hear.
> This point of view is not without value. The performer relies on the audience
> to make a living. You gotta give 'em what they want...within reason. I guess
> I sometimes get the feeling the an audience feels that they *own* the performer
> and the performer is there for *their (the audience's)* benefit. I think this
> point of view is out of line.
that he's touring as a solo acoustic -- how does Neil Young manage? :)
[snip my question about making requests]
> I believe we should...but at the appropriate time. I don't think it's right to
> be screaming for a song while another is being played, simply because you're
> not interested in that particular song.
fan's voice can now be heard by all. (i.e., acoustic "Only Love" of
fall 97 tour] I like the sign idea, as long as it's not obstructing
others' view.
> For me, I think the bottom line is respect...on both sides. If an audience
> respects a performer, then they will trust hearing new material and will be
> considerate as to when to request songs during a performance (for instance,
> between numbers). And of course, showing great approval (by applauding), when
> a song you like is played, is another way to respectfully let a performer know
> what you want.
> On the same token (OTST?), if a performer respects his/her audience, s/he will
> interact with them, listen to them, and try to deliver, to a certain extent,
> what they want. The performer has to control the show though. An audience is
> a conglomerate of many different people/viewpoints/wants. The performer has to
> be the fielder and the decider or it's just chaos.
> I wonder if, during a break between songs, someone should yell "Do you take
> requests?" Then we'd know for sure, wouldn't we?
> <G>
> > (still wondering how to request "new stuff") :)
>
> How about yelling "NEW STUFF...NEW STUFF...NEW STUFF"? LOL Actually, that
> may not be a bad idea.
Maybe this would be one for the crew to deliver? Actually, it's usually
not an issue for "my" artists -- they just deliver new material w/o
any fanfare (or teeth-gnashing). It's the ones who make an issue of
it by apologizing, or asking us to give it a chance, that frustrate me.
Granted, it can't be as much fun to deliver an unfamiliar song as it is
one that everyone screams in delight over when they hear the opening
chords -- especially if many use it to go get another beer. But
some of us *are* listening, and the apology seems to imply that the
setlist should be left to audience members who want only familiar
material (and that the performer is not in command of his/her show...)
Some new material eventually evolves into the most-requested songs,
and a first-time hearing can be a real prize -- for me, it was with
"Good Things" (song, not the list!). A hook so strong I was singing
the chorus at home for months before I heard it again... Lori
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <19971228012...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
fay...@aol.com (FAYALEH) wrote:
>
> >From: lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
> >Message-ID: <883175592....@dejanews.com>
>
> >The BoDeans orchestrate their shows very well, with setlist, lighting,>
>
> I do agree. However (isn't there always a 'however') the last time they played
> around here, someone had a lavender/purple gel in the lighting design combined
> with a 'paisley design' gobo (sp.?). On Sam's skin tone, lavender/purple gels
> turn the skin tone to green and with the gobo design, he looked as if he was
> ill. Amber gels for him...it will give him a healthy glow. Just my .02 cents
> but hey, it's part of what I do for a living...I tend to notice these things.
> :)
someone looked but didn't act ill, and couldn't pinpoint what was off.
So this is why performers should always be nice to their lighting
techs, right? :)
I think this was probably also the problem in the PBS broadcast
(and sorry, Steve, my video is pretty crummy, or I'd copy it for you;
I think the local PBS station backed off making it available to anyone
but high-end donors); when it looked as if a green Sam had bugs on
his face.... Lori
FAYALEH
In article <19971228012...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu writes:
>Actually, it's usually
>not an issue for "my" artists
' "my" artists?' And they would be.... <g>
>they just deliver new material w/o
>any fanfare (or teeth-gnashing).
You know, when Tom Petty was starting out, he would say "This is one from
Lynard Skynard..." and then play one of his own originals. :) Guess that's
one way to do it.
Plus, isn't that usually the reason why artists perform live...to try out new
stuff? I usually expect that at concerts.
>It's the ones who make an issue of
>it by apologizing, or asking us to give it a chance, that frustrate me.
Yup...my philosophy is "don't ever apologize for the choices you make onstage."
(Of course, this is short of being rude to your audience. If that happens,
then you should apologize.) But regarding artistic choices, just make them and
do it. Assess how it went *afterwards*...keep what worked and, if something
didn't work, try to figure out why and change it, if necessary (golly, is that
a real sentence?)
>the apology seems to imply that the
>setlist should be left to audience members who want only familiar
>material (and that the performer is not in command of his/her show...)
Or imply that the artist doesn't believe in what s/he is doing. An artist
can't sell an artistic decision to an audience if the audience doesn't think
the artist is even buying it. And if an artist apologizes for his/her work,
then it *doesn't* sound as if s/he really believes in it. I guess I should
say...IMHO. Didn't sound very humble though, did it? ;)
>and a first-time hearing can be a real prize -- for me, it was with
>"Good Things" (song, not the list!).
"Count on Me" had the same effect on me. I left singing the opening
guitar/bass line.
Well, Lori, best of luck on your upgrade...looking forward to your posts when
you get back.
Janey...I haven't forgotten you. Just taking longer than I expected to get
things together.
To everyone...A very Happy New Year. See you in 1998.
Jo
FAYALEH
In article ><19971228012...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu posts:
(regarding lighting design for a performer):
>So this is why performers should always be nice to their lighting
>techs, right? :)
LOL: performers should be nice to ALL the backstage, design, management and
tech crews. I've seen performers be rude to these people and I've seen crews
pull some of the most unbelievable stunts on a performer. ;) Pays to be
nice.
(Though, don't misunderstand us, surely this is not the reason for Sam's
lighting. <g>).
jo
Chris
PBS broadcasts? Can someone provide more information about this? I would
love to find out if these broadcasts are available in my area (the east coast).
Thanks very much!!!
In article <883423677...@dejanews.com>, lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu says:
>
>In article <19971228012...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> fay...@aol.com (FAYALEH) wrote:
>>
>> >From: lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
>> >Message-ID: <883175592....@dejanews.com>
>>
>> >The BoDeans orchestrate their shows very well, with setlist, lighting,>
>>
>> I do agree. However (isn't there always a 'however') the last time they played
>> around here, someone had a lavender/purple gel in the lighting design combined
>> with a 'paisley design' gobo (sp.?). On Sam's skin tone, lavender/purple gels
>> turn the skin tone to green and with the gobo design, he looked as if he was
>> ill. Amber gels for him...it will give him a healthy glow. Just my .02 cents
>> but hey, it's part of what I do for a living...I tend to notice these things.
>> :)
>The things I learn here! Thanks, Jo -- I know I'd seen shows where
>someone looked but didn't act ill, and couldn't pinpoint what was off.
>So this is why performers should always be nice to their lighting
>techs, right? :)
lo...@omnifest.uwm.edu
In article <68f2uh$blc$1...@decius.ultra.net>,
ro...@ultranet.com (Chris) wrote:
>
>
> PBS broadcasts? Can someone provide more information about this? I would
> love to find out if these broadcasts are available in my area (the east coast).
>
> Thanks very much!!!
>
station, from 2 benefit concerts here in April '96, and shown on WMVS
twice that year during fund-raising drives. During those times,
$120 donors could receive a video of the show without the breaks
to the telethon. (Nice premium -- one of the hosts, an alleged fan,
kept referring to the band as the BOH-deans.) I believe several
other PBS stations showed it that year, too, though I don't know if
they offered the video at all. At one time, there was talk of WMVS
allowing the video to be distributed and sold in stores; this hasn't
happened. Too bad; I wonder if WMVS would've received more money
that way (if a PBS station is allowed to; I don't know).