btw..I refer to a webchat of Bjork..
below the question's and anwers that I mentioned..
Q3-<ooops> i'd like to know in which ways you're impreesed by mountains
<ooops> they're everywhere
<ooops> in your lyrics, videos and so...
<bjork> mountains are incredibly important in iceland .
we´re still pagan after all these years and instead of
going to church on sundays we climb a mountain . revelation !!!!!!!!
Q18-T-riot asked: Do you think santa claus is scandinavian?
<bjork> t-riot : scandinavians robbed us of our saga-manuscripts
and there is no fucking way they´re getting santa claus
regards,
Andreas.
Wuxianpian schrieb:
>
> reetings,
The most common definition of Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and
Denmark, or, if you're really exclusive, just Norway and Sweden. What
you're talking about is the Nordic countries. To confuse things,
Scandinavia is sometimes used as a synonym for the Nordic countries,
as you did, but obviously this is not what Bjork had in mind.
>Is it because Denmark controlled Iceland at one point? Please
>help.
Probably. Bjork has stated that she doesn't like the Danish.
--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, zeb...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~zebulon ------
This is all a question of Icelandic history. I hope that one of
the several Icelandic posters on this NG can explain it properly.
Basically, Iceland was occupied by the Danes for several hundred
years - up to, I think, 1944, when Iceland became independent. The
Danish occupation of Iceland could be compared to later Nazi and
Soviet occupations in terms of brutality. As Bjork explained on the
recent Clive Anderson TV show, "they treated us like shit". She also
described the Danes collectively as "Bastards". Apparently, the
native Icelanders were suppresed to the extent that they were denied
music, musical instruments, dancing, painting, etc. This is how the
sagas originated (the first form of rap!). It was a form of musical
story-telling - but without the music!
When Bjork sings "How Scandinavian of me" she is not making a
proud boast - it is more an insult.
The Icelandic people certainly do not see themselves as
"Scandinavian".
One of the ironic things, of course, is that Iceland would
probably be the easiest contry in the world to occupy and conquer.
The country has a population of less than half a million - and does
not maintain an army.
Hope this helps a little. I now look forward to having this all
expanded by someone posting from Reykjavik!
IAN (U.K.) bjor...@yahoo.com
Scan·di·na·vi·a (sk˛n"d.-nł"v¶-., -nłv"y.) Abbr. Scand.. A region of
northern Europe consisting of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. Finland, Iceland,
and the Faeroe Islands are often included in the region.
Finland IS Scandinavian.
IAN (U.K.) bjor...@yahoo.com
shirl...@aol.com (ShirlPower) wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> >Bjork also said something to the effect that Icelanders feel about the
> >Danish similarly to the way the Irish feel about the English... Damn
> >colonialists!
> >
> >
> >
>
> I can't understand why someone seemingly open-minded as Bjork would openly
> claim to not like the Danish... I mean, disliking a whole nationality?? Are
> you sure she said that?
hev wrote:
> One thing that surprised me is when Bjork said for an Icelandic person to be
> called Scandinavian is like an insult. Why is that? Is it the location of
> Iceland to the rest of Scandinavia?
It has to do with Iceland being oppresed in a long forgotten time. It caused the
inhabitants to like anarchy, being rebellious. And because Scandanavians tend to
be very organised, it's bad for an Icelandic person to be organised because it
would mean they had given in to the rules of the opressor. In the same interview
Björk explained this, she also said that people from Iceland might be a bit
organised nevertheless, but they don't like to admit it. Just like the fact that
dutch people (like me), refuse to admit that the dutch language might sound
'german' to untrained listeners. This too has to do with dutch attitudes towards
germans because of conflicts in the past.
B-sting
igriggs wrote:
> She sat there and said it, loud and clear, on the Clive Anderson
> Show. Many of us have it on video. This wasn't just a nice, friendly
> occupation by the Danes - it was more like the first attempt at what
> we now call ethnic-cleansing.
>
> IAN (U.K.) bjor...@yahoo.com
But still, I think she didn't mean she hates every Danish person she runs into.
It's just 'the common attitude towards the Danes in Iceland.' I mean ... the
French and English don't 'like each other' either, but that doesn't mean they get
their heads bashed in when they visit each others countries or that the don't
trade or interact politically in an unfriendly way. It's just the prejudice that
every country has towards neighbouring countries or former occupants.
Or do you really consider Björk as a very hateful person ?
B-sting
Andreas.
In article <369C892E...@student.io.tudelft.nl>,
Bas van der Noodt <io60...@student.io.tudelft.nl> wrote:
> dutch people (like me), refuse to admit that the dutch language might sound
> 'german' to untrained listeners. This too has to do with dutch attitudes
towards
> germans because of conflicts in the past.
>
> B-sting
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Quite possible. It's a beautiful belief system. She has spoken of the land
wights and elves and faeries in a past interview I believe. In an article I
recently read, many of the older Icelanders still carry some of these beliefs
(I read a translated interview with an older Icelandic women in which she
spoke of being able to "see" faeries everywhere). When Christianity came to
Northern Europe much of these older beliefs were looked down upon as
"witchcraft" by the church and it was shunned and followers of the old ways
were scorned or even persecuted. Her movie the Juniper Tree dealt with a bit
of this. Sveinbjorn Benteinsson (who has a double cd on Bad Taste btw) got
Asatro recognized by the Allthing in Iceland. I always wondered this myself as
she has the Runic tattoo on her arm, her "compass". You can read some about
Asatru/o as it is in it's current form at:
http://www.saga.is/asatru/
http://www.runestone.org/
http://www.asatru.org/
http://www.lrbcg.com/heathen/
For a pretty good link list of groups all over the globe check out:
http://www.irminsul.org/as/asw.html
Eric
Quite possible. It's a beautiful belief system. She has spoken of the
land
wights and elves and faeries in a past interview I believe. In an article I
recently read, many of the older Icelanders still carry some of these
beliefs
(I read a translated interview with an older Icelandic women in which she
spoke of being able to "see" faeries everywhere). When Christianity came to
Northern Europe much of these older beliefs were looked down upon as
"witchcraft" by the church and it was shunned and followers of the old ways
were scorned or even persecuted. Her movie the Juniper Tree dealt with a
bit
of this. Sveinbjorn Benteinsson (who has a double cd on Bad Taste btw) got
Asatro recognized by the Allthing in Iceland. I always wondered this myself
as
she has the Runic tattoo on her arm, her "compass". You can read some about
Asatru/o as it is in it's current form at:
http://www.saga.is/asatru/
http://www.runestone.org/
http://www.asatru.org/
http://www.lrbcg.com/heathen/
For a pretty good link list of groups all over the globe check out:
http://www.irminsul.org/as/asw.html
Eric
Thanks for the links and the info. I also wondered by the Runic tattoo(could
someone
also clear this up? what does it mean etc..) Iceland could be official
christianised
but (as usual in country's where nature is the most important believe) the
people in it
are sticking to the original(look at Norway and Russia..Churches have been
torched out
of protest against the master/slaveship of christianity) Bjork's music is
intergrated within
the Nature aspect(well..that's what I feel anyway. Also the fact that she
uses the
original way of icelandic singing/talking. When Iceland was christainised
the people
where not allowed to tell tales of the Edda's(as blasphemie or whatever)and
so they
sang them in a particular way that Bjork also uses(I have this on video btw,
so I can
quote it if you like..) I'm not saying that she IS Asatru(and not only
because she likes
mountains that she is pagan..but she said so herself) she's only getting a
good
deal of inspiration out of it(natural belief or life motto for a strong
individual as Bjork)
This is a great subject to discuss(unlike if Iceland is a part of
scandinavia or not) but
there have te be some interviews who go "in debt" about this with Bjork?
Regards
Klaas
: Iceland could be official christianised but (as usual in country's where
: nature is the most important believe) the people in it are sticking to the
: original(look at Norway and Russia..Churches have been torched out of
: protest against the master/slaveship of christianity)
About the churches torched in Norway, that had more to do with the
black-metal underground movement than with a real action against the
Christian Church made by the normal folks, so to speak..
Later,
I know it had to do with black-metal..the first church was burned to the
ground by Varg Vikernes(or Count Grisnack) of Burzum(download his trail at
www.burzum.com !! See the churches burn!!!(I'm co-webmaster) Varg burned it
because the church was build on a natural circle on which a "pagan" temple
used to stand..so naturally that's blasphemy to build a christian church on
it..that's why he burned it down..all had a reason..it's not just
black-metal image(at least for Varg I know it for sure) if you hear the
trail..he got 21 years for his pagan views and not only murder and
arson(well it helped ofcourse:) Unfortunatly Varg's views are somewhat
extreme and I do not agree with a lot of them(if you are familiar with the
subject you know what views I am talking about!) Anyway..To get back to
Bjork.. I did read an interview once that bjork said that she listened to
some norwegian black-metal bands..does anyone have this interview?? I lost
it..
Varg burned the churches as an action against the cristian reign...
Klaas
>Eric
>Thanks for the links and the info. I also wondered by the Runic tattoo(could
>someone
>also clear this up? what does it mean etc..) Iceland could be official
>christianised
>but (as usual in country's where nature is the most important believe) the
>people in it
>are sticking to the original(look at Norway and Russia..Churches have been
>torched out
>of protest against the master/slaveship of christianity) Bjork's music is
>intergrated within
>the Nature aspect(well..that's what I feel anyway. Also the fact that she
>uses the
>original way of icelandic singing/talking. When Iceland was christainised
>the people
>where not allowed to tell tales of the Edda's(as blasphemie or whatever)and
>so they
>sang them in a particular way that Bjork also uses(I have this on video btw,
>so I can
>quote it if you like..) I'm not saying that she IS Asatru(and not only
>because she likes
>mountains that she is pagan..but she said so herself) she's only getting a
>good
>deal of inspiration out of it(natural belief or life motto for a strong
>individual as Bjork)
>This is a great subject to discuss(unlike if Iceland is a part of
>scandinavia or not) but
>there have te be some interviews who go "in debt" about this with Bjork?
>Regards
>Klaas
I'm well aware of the Black Metal movement and all that good stuff. In fact,
I'm a Burzum fan myself. I always thought her tattoo looked like a Runic
Aegishjalmarr (Helm of Awe). Well, not EXACTLY but the Vikings would use
these runic symbols for various magickal effects. Like a modified
Aegisjalmarr was called a Helm of Terror as well I believe and was painted on
the forehead before battle to put fear into your enemies. I believe Bjork
mentioned her compass was painted on the forehead by the Vikings when you were
lost, to help you find your way. Similar at least. As for Icelandic
singing/chanting, I picked up the Sveinbjorn double CD on Bad Taste which he
has chanting. Galdr is a chanting runic magick that was used by the Northern
tribes (Scandanavian and Germanic). I also have a CD by the writer Fryeyja
Aswynn in which she does Runic chanting. She is Dutch born and living in the
UK participating in an Asatru group there I believe.
Eric
I was very glad to find out that there are more people who are into Björk
and extreme music, like black/death. Nice to see you all; I might have a
couple of things to add to your discussion.
Björk's Tattoo: Well, as she has said herself, it is an old symbol the
vikings used to paint on their foreheads to find their way in strange
lands. It's from an old Icelandic manuscript which I have forgotten the
name of. Stephen Flowers aka Edred Thorsson released a book a couple of
years ago called "An Icelandic Grimoire" which contains two or three old
Icelandic "grimoires", one of which contains a picture of Bjork's tattoo
as well as an explanation. The tattoo is called the "Pathfinder".
Another thing; the symbol on the cover of Sugarcubes album "Here
today tomorrow next week" is also supposed to be a galdrarstafir, which
means something like "having success even when the times are bad"... There
is a web-page somewhere in the www.saga.is domain which have galdrarstafir
carved on silver plates for sale and which explains it a whole lot better.
Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson: The late Sveinbjörn used to be 'allsherjargooi'
in the official Asatro movement in Iceland. He also worked and toured with
members from the punk scene in Iceland, like Theyr (which features members
from Sugarcubes and Kukl). Both Theyr and Kukl were heavily involved in
paganism and occult matters. The Icelandic punk scene (both in the 70's
and 80's) is very unique in this way since it was a "nationalistic"
movement into runes, paganism etc.
The cd with Sveinbjörn which Eric talked about was presented by
Current 93 who then used to be into Norse paganism. The Smekkleysa people
(Björk, Einar, Sjon, Thor, Siggi etc.) were guests on the Current 93/HÖH
record "Island" which is a record I warmly recommend to anyone who is into
dark apocalyptic folk.
Björk's Religious views: From what I have read/heard, Björk has always
been extremely negative towards Xianity and now she also seems to dislike
Buddhism ("it makes me really angry"). I always found the lyrics she and
Einar wrote for the Kukl song "Man on the Cross" very indicative of what
believing in Xianity does to you, while at the same time being very
scornful towards Xianity. I remember one interview with the Sugarcubes
when they were asked if they believed in God and Einar answered: "You have
to specify you know. There are a lot of gods in this world and we are
actually six of them... you too, we are all gods". When asked about the
song Deus Björk said something like "No, it's not about the god who fucked
Mary".
Extreme music: It would have been fun to read the interview where Björk
supposedly said she listened to some Norwegian black/death metal bands.
:-) Was it a Norwegian one, Klaas (keep up the good work with the
homepage!)? Even though it doesn't seem to be her favourite music, she
has still done some things in this area. She contributed to an Icelandic
death/black/goth metal CD, Ham - "Dead Horse" where she co-wrote one song
and played church-organ-like keyboards on four songs. Ham was supposedly
also one of her favourite bands in the 80's. She has also produced some
Icelandic metal (whether she meant only Ham or not, I don't know).
Also the British death band Carcass have remixed "Isobel" which is
featured on one of the Hyperballad singles. Björk also used to say in late
Sugarcubes interviews that she had formed a speed metal group called
"Scud" with members from Ham, but whatever happened to that project I do
not know. She also said she loved Sepultura a couple of years ago and went
to see them.
To Messiah (do you listen to Candlemass? :-)); I found your letter very
interesting to read in which you explained what you like about Björk's
music etc. I share your views exactly! However if you are into extreme
music and Björk I really must say that you *have* to buy the two Kukl CDs
"The Eye" and "Holiday's in Europe". Really dark, extreme, and with
fabulous guitars!
Well, this letter is getting long now, so I think I'll stop here, even
though I'd like to go into Norwegian churchburnings and Varg Vikernes. The
discussion is off-topic here anyway.
Take care,
Very best regards,
/ Maria who has just re-discovered 3rd and the Mortal
Sorry! I forgot to include the URL for the Rune Gild Vinland...
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/runegild/
Eric in Texas
Yes Edred Thorsson was Stephen's "magickal/pen name" when he was involved in
the Ring Of Troth years ago when American Asatru was getting bigger. He has a
Phd in Germanic studies and much of what he writes is based on fact. When he
joined the Temple Of Set some years ago he kept up his Germanic/Scandanavian
mystical ways and continued wrtiting. I recently bought "Galdrabok-An
Icelandic Grimoire" (which dealt with Icelandic Rune spells and symbols). He
currently has an organization that deals with this called the Rune-Gild with a
press called Runa-Raven (without scouring the web I know ONE of their websites
is at http://www.dnaco.net/~raensept/rurav.htm
Interesting stuff!
>Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson: The late Sveinbjörn used to be 'allsherjargooi'
>in the official Asatro movement in Iceland. He also worked and toured with
>members from the punk scene in Iceland, like Theyr (which features members
>from Sugarcubes and Kukl). Both Theyr and Kukl were heavily involved in
>paganism and occult matters. The Icelandic punk scene (both in the 70's
>and 80's) is very unique in this way since it was a "nationalistic"
>movement into runes, paganism etc.
> The cd with Sveinbjörn which Eric talked about was presented by
>Current 93 who then used to be into Norse paganism. The Smekkleysa people
>(Björk, Einar, Sjon, Thor, Siggi etc.) were guests on the Current 93/HÖH
>record "Island" which is a record I warmly recommend to anyone who is into
>dark apocalyptic folk.
Yes and Current 93 worked with Freyja Aswynn as well on the CD I bought.
World Serpent distributions has a website too (alot of these bands are
associated with this label). As for Sveinbjorn, he is a hero.
-snipped-
> Also the British death band Carcass have remixed "Isobel" which is
>featured on one of the Hyperballad singles. Björk also used to say in late
>Sugarcubes interviews that she had formed a speed metal group called
>"Scud" with members from Ham, but whatever happened to that project I do
>not know. She also said she loved Sepultura a couple of years ago and went
>to see them.
Very amusing remix to say the least.
>To Messiah (do you listen to Candlemass? :-)); I found your letter very
>interesting to read in which you explained what you like about Björk's
>music etc. I share your views exactly! However if you are into extreme
>music and Björk I really must say that you *have* to buy the two Kukl CDs
>"The Eye" and "Holiday's in Europe". Really dark, extreme, and with
>fabulous guitars!
I am not Messiah but I will check out the two Kukl albums especially if they
deal with Icelandic heathen themes or have Asatru undertones. I'm always on
the lookout for this stuff. This led me to "Enslaved" then to "Burzum" and
the rest is history.
>Well, this letter is getting long now, so I think I'll stop here, even
>though I'd like to go into Norwegian churchburnings and Varg Vikernes. The
>discussion is off-topic here anyway.
Back to alt.music.black-metal!
>Take care,
>
>Very best regards,
>/ Maria who has just re-discovered 3rd and the Mortal
Another good choice!
Eric
: I was very glad to find out that there are more people who are into Björk
: and extreme music, like black/death. Nice to see you all; I might have a
: couple of things to add to your discussion.
[snip]
: The cd with Sveinbjörn which Eric talked about was presented by
: Current 93 who then used to be into Norse paganism. The Smekkleysa people
: (Björk, Einar, Sjon, Thor, Siggi etc.) were guests on the Current 93/HÖH
: record "Island" which is a record I warmly recommend to anyone who is into
: dark apocalyptic folk.
David Tibet and his Current 93 are just amazing. I don't have Island,
though... Is kinda hard to have everything they released.. More than 20
full length CDs.. Anyway, I have _As the World Disappears_ and _Dawn_ and
I love them!
Also, Dawn is the name of one of my favourites bands. Also Dark
Tranquillity, In Flames, At the Gates, A Canorous Quintet, Niden Div. 187,
The Abyss, Opeth, In Battle, Hypocrisy, Dark Funeral, Marduk,
are on my fav bands of all time. You sure live in a great country,
musically speaking, Maria.
: Also the British death band Carcass have remixed "Isobel" which is
: featured on one of the Hyperballad singles. Björk also used to say in late
: Sugarcubes interviews that she had formed a speed metal group called
: "Scud" with members from Ham, but whatever happened to that project I do
: not know. She also said she loved Sepultura a couple of years ago and went
: to see them.
Carcass split, unfortunetly... I was more in Carcass in the late 80's,
begins of 90's when they released Reek, Symphonies and Necroticism. How
'Isobel' sounds like? Metalic? just weird?
About Sepultura, everybody loves them.. they're great! ehehehes :)
: To Messiah (do you listen to Candlemass? :-))
Actually no, though Candlemass and Messiah Marcolin are one of the
references for the current doom scene. Sadly I know almost nothing about
Candlemass's work. I got my nick long time ago from the album Master of
Puppets by Metallica.
: I found your letter very
: interesting to read in which you explained what you like about Björk's
: music etc. I share your views exactly! However if you are into extreme
: music and Björk I really must say that you *have* to buy the two Kukl CDs
: "The Eye" and "Holiday's in Europe". Really dark, extreme, and with
: fabulous guitars!
Thanks, i will try to check them!