she didn't win
Tastybacon
video that everybody seems to think is so original and revolutionary "ray of
light:" by none other than miss m.
by the way, did you catch her performance of nothing really matters. terrible.
not as terrible as the shanti/ashanganti(or whatever)/ray of light performance
from the mtv awards. she needs to stop singing cuz her voice is terrible. that
and she couldn't keep her voice on a note, she tended to go flat a lot.
ah whatever, i can't even be bothered by her.
-kim
The thing that men and women need to do is stick together-
Progressions can't be made if we're seperate forever.
-Q-Tip, ATCQ
ELTacubo
concert...and love her music..but i cant give her that.
A.
>
> ah whatever, i can't even be bothered by her.
It looks like you already have been.
A.
Icky Fluid
>video that everybody seems to think is so original and revolutionary "ray of
>light:" by none other than miss m.
While it might not be 100% original, not many artists have done a video like
that. Btw, your revolutionary comment is not true, since ATT, MTV, and many
other corporations now use the whole "super fast moving, nite out in a big
city" thing on their commercials.
>ah whatever, i can't even be bothered by her.
LOL. But you were!
meli
ELTacubo wrote:
> Bjork could never put a performance like that- and I have seen Bjork live in
> concert...and love her music..but i cant give her that.
okokokokok.
i have been reading/catching up/skimming through all these posts about madonna
and bjork (a "debate" which has been going on for centuries it seems) and have
managed UNTIL NOW to bite my very tempermental tongue...
but i can't stand this--this atrocity.
did you somehow lose your sense of hearing at the bjork concert which you
supposedly saw live?? or do you just have no musical ear??
bjork is amazing live--even when it seems like she screws up she manages to turn
it into a positive new "quirk" to the song. Madonna's voice is thin and has no
depth or richness to it--and no range.
arg!
meli (spouting like a volcano again)
ps hello ian and bsting
Maria Salomonsson
On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, meli wrote:
> ELTacubo wrote:
>
> > Bjork could never put a performance like that- and I have seen Bjork live in
> > concert...and love her music..but i cant give her that.
>
> did you somehow lose your sense of hearing at the bjork concert which you
> supposedly saw live?? or do you just have no musical ear??
Yes, exactly! :-) Bjork gives the songs a completely new dimension. Of
course nothing beats a real live experience, where you can experience the
stage decorations, lights etc. together with the music, but even on taped
and videoed shows you can sense and watch something special, not to
mention improved and in some cases completely reworked versions of songs.
To be honest I have never heard (or seen) a bad show with her, either in
Tappi, Kukl, Sykurmolarnir or solo. Possibly one show with Sugarcubes when
she had a really bad throat, so she had to sing an octave lower, but she
managed to make it interesting anyway. :-)
I would never be nervous of going to a Bjork concert wondering whether her
voice would be decent, after all a voice _is_ important for the music. I
would never be ashamed of Bjork like Madonna fans must be seeing/hearing
some of Madonna's terrible live acts.
> bjork is amazing live--even when it seems like she screws up she manages to turn
> it into a positive new "quirk" to the song. Madonna's voice is thin and has no
> depth or richness to it--and no range.
Once again I totally agree with what you're saying. :-)
> meli (spouting like a volcano again)
Have you ever listened to Therion?
Very best regards,
/ Maria
Russell Flaag
tasty...@aol.com (Tastybacon) wrote:
> yeah, so bachelorette didn't win. it went to that totally unoriginal music
> video that everybody seems to think is so original and revolutionary "ray of
> light:" by none other than miss m.
>
> not as terrible as the shanti/ashanganti(or whatever)/ray of light performance
> from the mtv awards. she needs to stop singing cuz her voice is terrible. that
> and she couldn't keep her voice on a note, she tended to go flat a lot.
>
>
Explaining, obviously, why you took the time to post this.
Anyway, yes, Bachelorette was obviously the better video.
> -kim
>
> The thing that men and women need to do is stick together-
> Progressions can't be made if we're seperate forever.
> -Q-Tip, ATCQ
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Russell Flaag
meli <mel...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
>
> ELTacubo wrote:
>
> > Bjork could never put a performance like that- and I have seen Bjork live in
> > concert...and love her music..but i cant give her that.
>
>
> i have been reading/catching up/skimming through all these posts about madonna
> and bjork (a "debate" which has been going on for centuries it seems) and have
> managed UNTIL NOW to bite my very tempermental tongue...
>
> but i can't stand this--this atrocity.
>
> supposedly saw live?? or do you just have no musical ear??
>
turn
> it into a positive new "quirk" to the song. Madonna's voice is thin and has
no
> depth or richness to it--and no range.
>
>
> meli (spouting like a volcano again)
Meli, I don´t think Eltacubo was talking about singing abilities. By
performance, I think he meant the sets, costumes, dancing etc.
Destro Soze
Icky Fluid wrote:
>
> While it might not be 100% original, not many artists have done a video like
> that. Btw, your revolutionary comment is not true, since ATT, MTV, and many
> other corporations now use the whole "super fast moving, nite out in a big
> city" thing on their commercials.
Actually I think the Spice Girls did it before Madonna...
And The Orbital before them, only their's was better than both of the others.
I'd say a fair number of artists HAVE done a video like that.
goddamn...
scot
Bas van der Noordt
So nice to see you again.
meli wrote:
> i have been reading/catching up/skimming through all these posts about madonna
> and bjork (a "debate" which has been going on for centuries it seems) and have
> managed UNTIL NOW to bite my very tempermental tongue...
>
I got so fed up with it, that I marked all the messages in the threads about the
Bjork-Madonna connection as 'read', without ever reading them.
> but i can't stand this--this atrocity.
>
> did you somehow lose your sense of hearing at the bjork concert which you
> supposedly saw live?? or do you just have no musical ear??
>
I honestly have to confess I've never seen her live. I really became a 'fan' (I
still find it hard to call myself a fan, since there are lots of people around that
are definetely more fan then me), after she did her last performance in my country
(Holland). And I'm not THAT much a fan to travel all the way to a festival in the
U.K., Germany or Belgium just to see her perform 45 minutes, instead of a full gig.
> bjork is amazing live--even when it seems like she screws up she manages to turn
> it into a positive new "quirk" to the song. Madonna's voice is thin and has no
> depth or richness to it--and no range.
>
I don't want to start another thread here, but all I'll say is that I can appreciate
Madonna's work (especially the new stuff), but I would agree that Bjork does so much
more with her voice and her music too, then Madonna.
Allthough I did see a special this weekend about Madonna showing some old footage,
from when she was a drummer (??!!), a guitarist (??!!!) an finally a singer in a
kind of punkish kind of band (remember how she looked in her first video's ? Well,
like that but a bit less fancy), which some how reminded me of Bjork's
musical-background. Hmmmmm
> arg!
>
> meli (spouting like a volcano again)
>
So I see ! = )
> ps hello ian and bsting
And warm greetings to you too,
Welcome back (even if it is just for now),
B-sting
Scott
Oh, that! Well, yes, if that's what you want in a live musical performance
(sets and costumes), then, yes, Madonna and her HUGE corporate bankroll will
win every time. Me, I'll take a smaller venue, an original concept, a voice
incomparable in tone and depth, and an artistic success over a commercial
one.
Icky Fluid
>And The Orbital before them, only their's was better than both of the others.
Ofcourse you would say that . Anyway, yes, these artists have used that
feature, but I did not see *that* much use of them like I saw when Madonna did
it.
Icky Fluid
>win every time
Yea, like Bjork's never had a beautiful stage with an orchestra and creative
lighting.
>an artistic success over a commercial
>one.
Ofcourse. nothing commercial is artistic <sarcasm>.
meli
Maria Salomonsson wrote:
>
>
> Have you ever listened to Therion?
no--have heard the name before tis all.
>
>
> Very best regards,
> / Maria
c'est tout
meli
ELTacubo
And let me tell you something- Madonna recently did a performance of her song
Drowned World Live in Spain- and it was just her singing with her band. The
performanc was excellent and if you want to see it just go and look for it on
the internet.\
My point is that Madonna is a better performer than Bjork- Madonna takes you
there- she has this charismatic presence and energy that comes through her
performance.
Bjork does have something that is haunting too, but its no where near
Madonna's- and really bjork standing there sticking her tongue out and making
faces while she sings in front of the light is really nothing to loose sleep
over.
As far as voice goes..Madonna only sounded bad in the Video Music Awards and
she was dancing a lot in that- i have never seen Bjork dancing and singing like
M did that night. Every other time she's sounded great- sometimes better than
others. But I ask- why is it that Madonna's voice is such an issue at this
point? She has never been knowned or acknoledged for having the Best Voice- She
jsut said this in an article this weekend- She said that she is no Celine and
No mariah- Her focus and drive is different.
And I think she sings well..but wha ti like the most is the emotion she puts
into her songs.
Bjork on the other hand, well i love her singing, but we have to realize that
most people see her singing as whinning....I mean when i saw Bjork singing
Pluto live while it was very exciting (do the the beats and effects) her
yelling out was awful- Bjork doenst have a good voice..she has an interesting
and different voice.
Bjork is one of my favorite artists and her music is superior to Madonna's in
many levels-but you people have to put things in perspective.
ELTacubo
>would never be ashamed of Bjork like Madonna fans must be seeing/hearing
>some of Madonna's terrible live acts.
And who said Madonna fans are ashamed of Madonna's performance.
First of all None of Madonna performance have been terrible-
The only one that was disapointing was the Video Music awards one- and it was
because of her singing- her singing in Shanti was aweseom, but when she sung
the next song she sounded flat- but she made up for it with her dancing and
set- plus she won the most awards including best Video., so its ok.
The other performances she's given have all been great- now there have been
Madonna fans that have not been SATISFIED with some performances but that's far
from saying that they are ashamed! if they are not satisfied with her
performances it is because they expect so much from her after all the
performances she's given in her career- because she has given some of the
greatest performances in her 15 years of career.
ELTacubo
>footage,
>from when she was a drummer (??!!), a guitarist (??!!!) an finally a singer
>in a
>kind of punkish kind of band (remember how she looked in her first video's ?
>Well,
>like that but a bit less fancy), which some how reminded me of Bjork's
>musical-background. Hmmmmm
Of course this is the stuff that noone mentions- or the fact that when madonna
first arrived in New York she wrote her first songs with her synths and
everything, she had played drums in a band, she had played guitar in another
band, and then became a lead singer for an underground punk-rock band. Noone
ever mentions how Madonna took 2 years of Piano training, or how she got a
scholarship in dancing.
Most Bjork fans just see Madonna as robot not capable of achieving anything
meaningful like Bjork has. Well Madonna has reached so many fans around the
world that have been astounded by her music,persona, image, etc.
its so easy to say that her success is due to the $2 mil. her record Company
spends on promotion, but let me tell you there is definately more than that-
because where are Michael Jackson? Cindy Lauper? Prince? The New Kids on the
Block? Paula Abdul? and all those other countless acts who reached the
commerciability Madonna has.
Astrolabe
i do like madonna, but please, Bachalorette kicks Ray of Lights ass any
day of the week...
as for the sped up thing, clearly Roni Sizes Brown Paper Bag takes the
cake
fred
ele...@interport.net
ELTacubo wrote:
> Are you kidding- what's with your attitude?
> First if you are judging Madonna's Dancing abilities by her dancing in her
> latest videos think again- just go watch all her tours, and all her other
> videos, and her movie Evita to see how great of a professional dancer she is.
> She's got it in her.
> And PLEASE dont give me the crap that Madonna can only play "Mary Had a little
> Lamb" Anyone who has taken 2 years of Piano knows this is not true. I took 2
> years of Piano myself and i can play any Mozart or Beethoven piece i want if I
> try hard enough- and i am sure that you are also familiar with those people
> that learn to play instruments with no training and go on to be some of the
> best in the world.
> Now i'm not saying Madonna is a Music Virtuoso but I am annoyed by yours
> comments of putting everything Madonna does down.
> She DOES have Musical Training (Piano, Guitar, Drums- and in the Evita years
> Voice) She does have dancing training.
> Madonna has written her own songs, and choreographed her own performances.
> This Girl became from being a girl with $65 in her pocket alone in NYCto the
> biggest Fale Pop Artist of all time- and an Icon never remembered.
> I think Bjork is superior musically in some levels- but you should take in
> consideration what Madonna has accomplished.
>
> > I just wanted to say that--the scholarship in dancing is one thing (great
> >but wtf
> >does it have to do with musical ability?) although in her newest video for
> >nothing
> >really matters she shows that possibly that scholarship was given to the
> >wrong
> >person--but why are you bragging about 2YEARS of piano "training"--i took
> >piano for
> >over 12 years and i can tell you that after 2 years of it you'd probably know
> >how to
> >play "mary had a little lamb" and barely be able to read sheet music for both
> >hands. Big whoop.
> >
Tastybacon
for Evita, she sounds worse? it's just a testament to how overrated she is now.
i was never anti-madonna until now. I'm actually quite fond of the majority of
her previous material. remember when she used to be a trend-setter? now it
seems she's always one step behind, but trying to act like she's doing
something new.
Tastybacon
yo, don't talk shit about cyndi lauper and prince. they are still making good,
creative, and engaging music. the rest of the world has unfortunately moved on
because they refuse to cater to the likes of the standard trendster pop scene.
and damn it, prince knows how to put on a show.
paula abdul, was and always will be a fluke.
michael jackson is a straight up wierdo with a lot of personal problems that he
does not know how to deal with. at least janet seeks out therapy.
and in case you didn't hear, two of the new kids are staging comebacks. Jordan
Knight, and Joey McIntyre. at least they can sing though. But, I am not saying
that they further the creative good of music
Tastybacon
> Anyway, yes, Bachelorette was obviously the better video.
for all of you who shouted me out on this statement
>> ah whatever, i can't even be bothered by her.
i took the time because i thought it was interesting. i don't let madonna
bother me, because i like a lot of what she's done up to right before this
point in her career. i do respect her. she just needs to know when to give it a
rest, and quit trying to be so many things.
now, sheryl crow and brandy........they bother me!!!!!!!
Icky Fluid
>for Evita, she sounds worse?
First of all, if you are gonna make that statement then you are clearly saying
that mostly EVERYONE who has a career as a singer "learned how to sing".
Madonna always had those vocals in her, she just needed a guidance to "teach'
her how to use them. Like Bjork and many many other artists, she used a vocal
coach to expand her vocal abilities.
Russell Flaag
same single on CD with only 3 songs on each, then more 5 versions on vynil,
then a Box Set...
In article <7b4400$887$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>,
"Scott" <sfr...@hworks.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, that! Well, yes, if that's what you want in a live musical performance
> (sets and costumes), then, yes, Madonna and her HUGE corporate bankroll will
> win every time. Me, I'll take a smaller venue, an original concept, a voice
> incomparable in tone and depth, and an artistic success over a commercial
> one.
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
BjorkRulz
bjork bjork!!!
meli
BjorkRulz wrote:
> who gives a flying fuck? this newsgroup is BJORK get it? bjork bjork bjork
> bjork bjork!!!
hahahahaha
amen and hallelujah
:D meli *pop!*
Maria Salomonsson
On 25 Feb 1999, ELTacubo wrote:
> >Allthough I did see a special this weekend about Madonna showing some old
> >footage,
> >from when she was a drummer (??!!), a guitarist (??!!!) an finally a singer
> >in a
> >kind of punkish kind of band (remember how she looked in her first video's ?
> >Well,
> >like that but a bit less fancy), which some how reminded me of Bjork's
> >musical-background. Hmmmmm
>
>
> Of course this is the stuff that noone mentions- or the fact that when madonna
> first arrived in New York she wrote her first songs with her synths and
> everything, she had played drums in a band, she had played guitar in another
> band, and then became a lead singer for an underground punk-rock band. Noone
> ever mentions how Madonna took 2 years of Piano training, or how she got a
> scholarship in dancing.
I also saw that footage... You can call it whatever you like but comparing
Madonna's Hanson like "underground punk-rock band" to for instance Kukl,
well that would be the most blasphemous thing I have ever heard; or
comparing Madonna to Gulli... LOL!!! But I guess that's not what any of
you meant, is it? That whole Icelandic punk scene, both musically and
"ethically" (do it yourself, "anarchist", pagan, "nationalistic" etc.),
was so different from Madonna's "underground punk band" that it wouldn't
be enough to say that they were the opposite.
Now Kukl and the whole Icelandic "punk" scene with groups like Theyr, PP,
Stanya, Vonbrigdi, Hilmar Ö. H. etc. created pure original music... Theyr
and Kukl are two of the most unique and experimental groups I have ever
had the pleasure to hear (if anyone wants to argue with me about this,
then I would be overwhelmed with joy if anyone could recommend a
group/artist that sounds like them), who were rebellious and underground
in the true sense of the word. Most of the Icelandic punk scene was also
pagan; musically taking inspiration from for instance Icelandic folk/rock
group Thursaflokkurinn; also touring with (the now late) Beinteinsson
(very prominent figure in the Asatru revival this century).
Maria Salomonsson
Hello,
> In article <7b4400$887$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>,
> "Scott" <sfr...@hworks.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, that! Well, yes, if that's what you want in a live musical performance
> > (sets and costumes), then, yes, Madonna and her HUGE corporate bankroll will
> > win every time. Me, I'll take a smaller venue, an original concept, a voice
> > incomparable in tone and depth, and an artistic success over a commercial
> > one.
On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Russell Flaag wrote:
> Sure, there愀 nothing commercial about Bjork releasing 3 versions of the
> same single on CD with only 3 songs on each, then more 5 versions on vynil,
> then a Box Set...
There is this new standard on singles; that's why there are only three
songs on each. I am sure someone else can explain this, because I don't
know too much about it.
Also, I think it's just perfect that she releases the remixes on
vinyl for vinyl fans. The box sets are a brilliant way to get all the
remixes as well as the video (which is really hard to catch on TV). If
you're not an obsessive collector, then I don't see how this could earn
her extra money. Furthermore, correct me if I am wrong, but there hasn't
been too much promotion for Alarm Call.
So you don't think it is proper to say "an artistic success over a
commercial one"? I can only say, once again, if Bjork really was
commercial, then why has she _so many times_ in her career gone in an
direction bad for chart postions (like when she only released Joga in the
format of a boxset, which meant that it wasn't qualified to partake in the
charts etc.) and record sales; and why does she continue to stay on OLI?
Bas van der Noordt
BjorkRulz wrote:
> who gives a flying fuck? this newsgroup is BJORK get it? bjork bjork bjork
> bjork bjork!!!
I second that motion ! All those in favour say "hell yes !"
B-sting
Bas van der Noordt
Maria Salomonsson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On 25 Feb 1999, ELTacubo wrote:
>
> > >Allthough I did see a special this weekend about Madonna showing some old
> > >footage,
> > >from when she was a drummer (??!!), a guitarist (??!!!) an finally a singer
> > >in a
> > >kind of punkish kind of band (remember how she looked in her first video's ?
> > >Well,
> > >like that but a bit less fancy), which some how reminded me of Bjork's
> > >musical-background. Hmmmmm
> >
> >
> > Of course this is the stuff that noone mentions- or the fact that when madonna
> > first arrived in New York she wrote her first songs with her synths and
> > everything, she had played drums in a band, she had played guitar in another
> > band, and then became a lead singer for an underground punk-rock band. Noone
> > ever mentions how Madonna took 2 years of Piano training, or how she got a
> > scholarship in dancing.
>
> I also saw that footage... You can call it whatever you like but comparing
> Madonna's Hanson like "underground punk-rock band" to for instance Kukl,
> well that would be the most blasphemous thing I have ever heard; or
> comparing Madonna to Gulli... LOL!!!
No. not exactly. What I meant was that I had never thought of Madonna as some one
who had actually had been in 'crummy' bands. I mean, I grew up with the media filled
with this huge Madonna-idol kind of person and through the years just figured that
she had been 'just a girl' that was picked up by a record company and turned into a
star, without any particular musical background (or experience in playing
instruments or whatever). You know ... like the Spice Girls (before anyone starts
flaming me on that one: I DO enjoy their music, but don't consider it as
'wonderfully good' music, like Bjork).And seeing her like that just reminded me of
how I got to know Bjork as 'just a singer' when I found out about her, ans LATER ON
found out she had been in bands like the Sugarcubes, Kukl, Tappi T., etc. And that
she had a musical education and that she wasn't JUST a singer. And that she writes
her own material.
I wasn't trying to say that Madonna's pre-fame days sounded like Bjork's pre-fame
days (all though fame is rather relative term in Iceland). Just the idea that they
both started out 'small' and with a musical background. I saw someone mention here
that Madonna also got a scholarship for dancing ... that's also news to me. However
.... and I'm guessing Maria also saw the special on MTV Europe's Madonna weekend
.... she also used to be an ...well .... how shall I put this .... exotic dancer (if
you know what I mean). For the money though ... she stated, but still .... Bjork
doesn't have that background. So there are differences !!!
> But I guess that's not what any of
> you meant, is it? That whole Icelandic punk scene, both musically and
> "ethically" (do it yourself, "anarchist", pagan, "nationalistic" etc.),
> was so different from Madonna's "underground punk band" that it wouldn't
> be enough to say that they were the opposite.
>
Agreed.
> Now Kukl and the whole Icelandic "punk" scene with groups like Theyr, PP,
> Stanya, Vonbrigdi, Hilmar Ö. H. etc. created pure original music... Theyr
> and Kukl are two of the most unique and experimental groups I have ever
> had the pleasure to hear (if anyone wants to argue with me about this,
> then I would be overwhelmed with joy if anyone could recommend a
> group/artist that sounds like them), who were rebellious and underground
> in the true sense of the word. Most of the Icelandic punk scene was also
> pagan; musically taking inspiration from for instance Icelandic folk/rock
> group Thursaflokkurinn; also touring with (the now late) Beinteinsson
> (very prominent figure in the Asatru revival this century).
>
Unfortunately, the stuff I have on Icelandic punk bands is rather few songs (if not
non-existant). Just a tape of Tappi T. and some other tracks with Bjork on it. So I
can't argue with you on that subject. To ill-informed to have an opinion.= )
Greetz,
B-sting
Rusty
Bas van der Noordt <io60...@student.io.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:36D69D44...@student.io.tudelft.nl...
Astrolabe
> commercial one"? I can only say, once again, if Bjork really was
> commercial, then why has she _so many times_ in her career gone in an
> direction bad for chart postions (like when she only released Joga in the
> format of a boxset, which meant that it wasn't qualified to partake in the
> charts etc.) and record sales; and why does she continue to stay on OLI?
>
and why does she remain with Elektra in the US and Polygram/Parlophone
and Mother elsewhere.
being commercial is not BAD! you are good at something, amazing at
something, and people want this product, so why not sell it to them...if
your the best at what you do, make it consistant well, hell, go on and
sell it...and thats what bjork is doing..you act like this is...i mean
lets look at it, she could have pulled a pearl jam/george micheal..no
interviews, no videos, no concerts. concerts are a treat tot he fans..yes,
but concerts are also a marketing tool t promote albums and make money
and i agree with Hutner and Alarm call on soundtracks, that some extra
cash in the bank, or a down payment on another hummer.(how many people can
afford one of those things?)
the new British singles rule went into effect in 1998...Joga came out in
1997, so you really cant excuse that...plus my joga single is just one
single with all the remixes, and ive seen the multi parter around, so
obviously, it just wasnt a box set
and alarm call is approaching hyper ballad in all the formats its in...
is bjrok an artistic success..of course..no argument...is she a commercial
one...not here in the us but everywhere else..yes. is tha tbad. of course
not..not as long as she continues to make good music
fred
Ugliness Man
called a moron for stating my anti-madonna opinions. which i think is bloody
stupid considering this is a bjork newsgroup.
UgM
---
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong" - Dennis Miller
Ugliness Man
tasty...@aol.com (Tastybacon) wrote:
> and in case you didn't hear, two of the new kids are staging comebacks. Jordan
> Knight, and Joey McIntyre. at least they can sing though. But, I am not saying
> that they further the creative good of music
and don't forget the recently released "Greatest Hits" CD. and, no, i'm not
kidding. i think it was released feb 16. oh oh oh oh-oh, oh oh oh-oh, oh oh
oh oh-oh.
the right stuff.
ryan hynnes
Tastybacon wrote in message
<19990225193426...@ng-ca1.aol.com>...
>does anybody agree with me in that, ever since Madonna "learned how to
sing"
now.
i'll agree with you on the sounding worse. it's like she thinks too much
about her singing instead of letting it flow from the heart. if you look
back at her girlie show and blonde ambition concerts on tape you will see
that she can be a truly fabulous live performer. i also think that it's
difficult to get comfortable and put on a good performance during an awards
show that doesn't give you the time to accustom yourself to being on stage
again. as for the overrated part, i disagree. ray of light was an amazing
album that inspired me deeply. it is perhaps her best ever (like a prayer
comes very close) and it is a testament to the fact that her capabilities as
an artist have grown. most of the anti-madonna posts in this ng make me
wonder if you have even heard ray of light or seen her live in the past.
most of the criticisms seem really uninformed and based on a lack of
exploration into her music and career. it's like the folk who classify
bjork as a weird elfin singer with little to offer their world. they miss
out on so much more because they have not really discovered the beauty of
what is going on there.
Scott
good entertainer. I think she has had a career that anyone would be proud
of, and I think she has valid artistic merit. Does anyone participating in
this discussion deny that Madonna enjoys and appreciates Bjork's work? It's
undeniable. Does anyone participating in this discussion deny that Bjork
admires Madonna? "Bedtime Stories", anyone? Hello! I went to a Bjork
concert in NYC last year that Madonna attended. I think we can call her a
fan! I recall seeing Bjork say in an interview that (para) 'without Madonna
her own (Bjork's) career would have been much more difficult', which I
think, means that Bjork gives Madonna a great deal of credit for advancing
the female pop musician in a hundred different ways. Lets not dish dirt
about who influenced who. Let's not bicker about who's 'better'. Such
terms are only personal, even in their simplest forms. Some people really
enjoy Madonna's voice. Fine. Some people think she sounds thin (vocally)
and flat (vocally) without the aid of studio enhancements. Fine. Me, I
like Bjork. I prefer Bjork. I like what she does. I like the people she
chooses to work with. I find her voice, her ideas, her music, her
productions, and yes, even her live performance to be more enjoyable to me
than that of Madonna. That's why I read alt.music.bjork and not
alt.music.madonna. I know that Bjork gets paid for what she does, and I
imagine she gets to live pretty comfortably on it. As an American, from
this side of the Atlantic, it is crystal clear that Madonna is the
commercial success - Madonna's bad albums sell millions more than Bjork's
good ones in this country. That doesn't make Madonna a sell-out. It makes
her a suspect, but not a sell-out. You can be commercially succesfull and
still be a respectable artist. Madonna, in my own opinion, has met the
minimum criteria to be considered artisitically valid, but she's still
hanging on. Well, that's it for me. I've exhausted my thoughts on the
subject. I hope we can all go our separate ways, listen to our own CDs and
let Bjork and Madonna share their own respective and succesful niches in the
industry. No shootout required. Hell, they're practically on the same
team!
Viva la Bjork!
meli
Maria Salomonsson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On 25 Feb 1999, ELTacubo wrote:
>
>
> Noone
> > ever mentions how Madonna took 2 years of Piano training, or how she got a
> > scholarship in dancing.
>
>
I just wanted to say that--the scholarship in dancing is one thing (great but wtf
does it have to do with musical ability?) although in her newest video for nothing
really matters she shows that possibly that scholarship was given to the wrong
person--but why are you bragging about 2YEARS of piano "training"--i took piano for
over 12 years and i can tell you that after 2 years of it you'd probably know how to
play "mary had a little lamb" and barely be able to read sheet music for both
hands. Big whoop.
meli
Russell Flaag
Maria Salomonsson <di9...@student.hk-r.se> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Russell Flaag wrote:
>
> > Sure, there´s nothing commercial about Bjork releasing 3 versions of the
> > same single on CD with only 3 songs on each, then more 5 versions on vynil,
> > then a Box Set...
> There is this new standard on singles; that's why there are only three
> songs on each. I am sure someone else can explain this, because I don't
> know too much about it.
It´s so they can sell the same single three times. That´s the reason. I love
Bjork´s music to death and, yes, I find it waaaay superior to Madonna´s - but
I still think Bjork is commercial. Not like Madonna or -ugh- the Spice Girls,
but still commercial.
Take care,
Russ... disappointed that Alarm Call isn´t on Volumen DVD :(
Icky Fluid
>.... she also used to be an ...well .... how shall I put this .... exotic
>dancer (if
>you know what I mean). For the money though ... she stated
Correction. she posed nude for art students. She was never an exotic dancer.
Icky Fluid
>really matters she shows that possibly that scholarship was given to the
>wrong
>person-
Hmm.. i guess you haven't seen her other videos or seen the videos in which she
dances in ballet class.
Icky Fluid
>over 12 years and i can tell you that after 2 years of it you'd probably know
>how to
>play "mary had a little lamb" and barely be able to read sheet music for both
>hands. Big whoop.
Btw, youre being very sarcastic here because what you said is simply not true.
Mary Had a Little Lamb can be learned very quickly. And she still uses that
abilty to create chord progression for her songs.
ELTacubo
First if you are judging Madonna's Dancing abilities by her dancing in her
latest videos think again- just go watch all her tours, and all her other
videos, and her movie Evita to see how great of a professional dancer she is.
She's got it in her.
And PLEASE dont give me the crap that Madonna can only play "Mary Had a little
Lamb" Anyone who has taken 2 years of Piano knows this is not true. I took 2
years of Piano myself and i can play any Mozart or Beethoven piece i want if I
try hard enough- and i am sure that you are also familiar with those people
that learn to play instruments with no training and go on to be some of the
best in the world.
Now i'm not saying Madonna is a Music Virtuoso but I am annoyed by yours
comments of putting everything Madonna does down.
She DOES have Musical Training (Piano, Guitar, Drums- and in the Evita years
Voice) She does have dancing training.
Madonna has written her own songs, and choreographed her own performances.
This Girl became from being a girl with $65 in her pocket alone in NYCto the
biggest Fale Pop Artist of all time- and an Icon never remembered.
I think Bjork is superior musically in some levels- but you should take in
consideration what Madonna has accomplished.
> I just wanted to say that--the scholarship in dancing is one thing (great
>but wtf
>does it have to do with musical ability?) although in her newest video for
>nothing
>really matters she shows that possibly that scholarship was given to the
>wrong
>person--but why are you bragging about 2YEARS of piano "training"--i took
meli
Icky Fluid wrote:
> >although in her newest video for nothing
> >really matters she shows that possibly that scholarship was given to the
> >wrong
> >person-
>
> Hmm.. i guess you haven't seen her other videos or seen the videos in which she
> dances in ballet class.
hmm.. i guess i was referring to the nothing really matters dancing.
all you madonna fans need to settle the fuck down. this is so irritating. You
know, there ARE people out there with different opinions of her than you! accept
it and move ON.
Robert P. Krajewski
Maria Salomonsson <di9...@student.hk-r.se> wrote:
> Also, I think it's just perfect that she releases the remixes on
>vinyl for vinyl fans
Or, less charitably, you could say it's stunt for collectors with infinite
disposable income. I'm not singling out Bjork, but for me it's sad because
she gets such interesting remixers.
Seriously, why not just collect the remixes on album-length CD or perhaps
release them on MP3 a year after the initial release ? Only the real fans
will care about them then anyway.
Icky Fluid
>
>all you madonna fans need to settle the fuck down. this is so irritating.
>You
>know, there ARE people out there with different opinions of her than you!
>accept
>it and move ON.
Awww.... poor baby. If you don't care, then don't respond. Look, i'm not here
to fight against anyone but you do realize that Bjork does have SOME Madonna
fans, and when you insult her, they get defensive. If you guys wouldn't have
brought her up or attacked her in the first place none of this would happened.
Icky Fluid
Bjork had fans that liked madonna as well. That's why they get defensive. If
you don't enjoy something, just ignore and skip the thread.
chlogiston
>Seriously, why not just collect the remixes on album-length CD or perhaps
>release them on MP3 a year after the initial release ? Only the real fans
>will care about them then anyway.
Didn't this happen with the Debut remixes? I understood that she financed
this release herself, "for all the fans who don't buy white labels."
--
Chloe Joan Lopez cjl...@fas.harvard.edu +
Jos Rietdijk
song for Madonna. I bought Debut and loved it.
Icky Fluid
Youre right, it was actually $35
Mred...@hotmail.com
FUCKERS. GET OUT OF MY FUCKING LIFE. IF UIF DONT LIKE HER THEN WHY THE FUK
ARE U HERE. THE GRAMMYS KICKED ASS. SHE WON A PRIZE.
YOU FUCKN AQUA FANS ANTI BJORK DICKHEADS
In article <19990226192416...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mred...@hotmail.com
FUCKING USELESS LECTURE ON MADONNA ETC ETC. ANY NEWS ON HER LATEST WORKS.
REPLY TO MRED...@HOTMAIL.COM
In article <19990226191746...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Icky Fluid
>FUCKING USELESS LECTURE ON MADONNA ETC ETC
You're so friendly! Anyway, if you haven't realized by now, the Madonna fans
in here are Bjork fans as well. I for one came in here thinking there was
going to be Bjork discussion and came upon all this Madonna trashing.
Fred
Well, for me, the voice is NOT the problem.
It's, rather, the overall blandness of
the whole ROL album.
Am I still blown away by each of the songs on Homogenic? You know I
am.....! Bjork is a great and daring and original artist with each song
on that album.
The only good thing I can say about Nothing Really Matters is that it
was, at least, appropriately titled. It REALLY doesn't!
If you want vintage Madonna, try Rain or I'll Remember or Live To Tell.
ROL delivers no songs of this caliber, unfortunately.
And Bachelorette was an inspired, original video. The ROL video was
just one more rehash of a cliched blue screen special effects technique.
It is so tired and ugly and watching it is like sitting in the dentist's
chair without any pain killer. Ack!
Just think back to how creative the video was for Rain compared to this
awful junk she's winning awards for now. Pathetic, ain't it!
But, hey, no one should be surprised by any of this. The Grammys have
always rewarded flash and trash before delicacy or nuance.
FRED of LA
who believes Homogenic will be called the watershed album of the 1990's.
Boymtswd
>just one more rehash of a cliched blue screen special effects technique.
>It is so tired and ugly and watching it is like sitting in the dentist's
>chair without any pain killer. Ack!
>
>
AMEN
Astrolabe
> FRED of LA
> who believes Homogenic will be called the watershed album of the 1990's.
>
and i always thought Radioheads OK COmputer or Massive Attacks Blue Lines
already had that title
fred
Fred
as a retro band......like, oh, sooooo many guitars, man! duh.....just
like the Who, mannnnnnnn. wanna smoke some heavy sheeet? huh? huh?
or am I think of Phish, here?
a watershed band of the 90's?
NOT.
HELLO!!!!!!
(more likely 1975!)
FRED of LA
who will approach the Radiohead topic again only when they dump all the
TIRED guitars AND bring Mark Bell on board......these dudes need a 90's
Bjork makeover, quick!
meli
Icky Fluid wrote:
> >WOULD ALL U MADONNA FANATICS SHUT THE FUK UP IM HERE FOR BJORK GOSSIP NOT A
> >FUCKING USELESS LECTURE ON MADONNA ETC ETC
>
> You're so friendly!
yeah, and you're just a fountain of goodwill and love. :P
meli
Icky Fluid
I never claimed to be. But you didn't care to paste the rest of my post and
point.
Bas van der Noordt
Mred...@hotmail.com wrote:
> HEY ALL U ANTI BJORK FANS GO AND CHECK OUT SOME GUNS N ROSES NEWSGROUPS U
> FUCKERS.
Funny you should mention that ... Before I had ever heared of Bjork I was a
GNR-fan.= ) LOL !
But that's all in the past now ....
Bas van der Noordt
Icky Fluid wrote:
I can't say I'm very well informed about Madonna, but SHE said it right into the
camera on MTV ! Are you caliming I'm dillusional ? = )
Bas van der Noordt
Icky Fluid wrote:
> >hmm..i guess i was referring to the nothing really matters dancing.
> >
> >all you madonna fans need to settle the fuck down. this is so irritating.
> >You
> >know, there ARE people out there with different opinions of her than you!
> >accept
> >it and move ON.
>
> Awww.... poor baby. If you don't care, then don't respond.
Well to be honest, I don't care about this entire discussion at all and I'm
getting fed up clicking through an enormous list, just to mark it as 'read'.
Wouldn't it be possible to make a new newsgroup where this discussion can take
place, like alt.music.madonna.vs.bjork ?
Just an idea,
B-sting
Icky Fluid
>camera on MTV ! Are you caliming I'm dillusional ? = )
>
>
Well, possibly :) She was never an exotic dancer so you heard wrong, or
wanted to hear wrong.
Astrolabe
> funny, I always thought of Radiohead
> as a retro band......like, oh, sooooo many guitars, man! duh.....just
> like the Who, mannnnnnnn. wanna smoke some heavy sheeet? huh? huh?
um, have you heard Ok Computer? I dont really like rock all that much, but
i have listened to Ok Computer and for a "rock" (some people might call it
post-rock) it really is a soncially interesting album, and probably the
best concept album of the 90s..this is coming from a guy who doesnt really
like this band or the genre, but i can see its an important album of the
90s..just like nevermind by nirvana..dont like the band or the album, but
i know its reall important
now i love electronic music, but i know there is more to life than
electronic music, and of course there is amazing music made without
electronic instruments
> who will approach the Radiohead topic again only when they dump all the
> TIRED guitars AND bring Mark Bell on board......these dudes need a 90's
> Bjork makeover, quick!
i like what mark bell did, but i stil like nellee better ;)
um, not everyone should be, or has to be electronic. gitars...tired? your
just as bad as people saying techno is souless and repetitive..of course
there are great and interesting sonics that can be done with the
guitar...i guess you want to axe the guitar out of Human Behavior..how
about Bjork dumping all the "tired" string instruments on Homogenic...and
we all know THATS rediculous
fred
Lieven
Astrolabe wrote:
> > who will approach the Radiohead topic again only when they dump all the
> > TIRED guitars AND bring Mark Bell on board......these dudes need a 90's
> > Bjork makeover, quick!
>
> i like what mark bell did, but i stil like nellee better ;)
>
> um, not everyone should be, or has to be electronic. gitars...tired? your
> just as bad as people saying techno is souless and repetitive..of course
> there are great and interesting sonics that can be done with the
> guitar...i guess you want to axe the guitar out of Human Behavior..how
> about Bjork dumping all the "tired" string instruments on Homogenic...and
> we all know THATS rediculous
>
> fred
I would agree that guitars aren't soul less or repetitive.
but wouldn't you say that all that is being done with a band that has guitar,
bass guitar drum and maybe synth has been done before? Most songs that are
being made, sound like something familiar. And that, as far as I am
concerned, is the reason why now is a good time to move on to something
different.
I do hope that does not mean that I have to throw out all my guitar rock
albums.
e.g. K's choice rocks
take care ;-)
Lieven
chlogiston
>but wouldn't you say that all that is being done with a band that has guitar,
>bass guitar drum and maybe synth has been done before? Most songs that are
>being made, sound like something familiar. And that, as far as I am
>concerned, is the reason why now is a good time to move on to something
>different.
I agree that a lot of guitar rock sounds like something that has come
before. This is probably more the result of over-produced commercialized
unoriginality, rather than some sort of exhaustion of the instrumentation.
Well, also, some bands just suck.
Maria Salomonsson
Hello,
Sorry for this late reply, I have been very busy studying... I will also
reply to Lauri's great letter!
Here we go again Astrolabe! :-)
> the new British singles rule went into effect in 1998...Joga came out in
> 1997, so you really cant excuse that...plus my joga single is just one
> single with all the remixes, and ive seen the multi parter around, so
> obviously, it just wasnt a box set
It might very well be that this new singles rule went into effect in 1998,
but Joga didn't count as a valid format for the charts anyway. The host on
TOTP when Bjork performed Joga said something like: "I hope you recorded
this performance [and I did :-)] because you will not see it again, due to
its release formats". So Joga wasn't allowed into the UK charts it seems.
If Sugarcubes' aim was to make money then: Why did Sugarcubes refuse to
accept the £750000 deal; why were the Sugarcubes so stubborn with making a
completely different album than LTG (and also constantly saying that "we
will disappoint you"); why did the Sugarcubes ignore (as Derek Birkett
said) so many important persons; why didn't they just play the media game
and participate in Sugarcubes specials etc. etc.; why did the Sugarcubes
release boxsets which cost more to manufacture than they decided to sell
them for; why hasn't they yet released the Icelandic Demo Sessions, the
garage tapes, the Kukl Denmark live record etc.
If Bjork's aim was to make money: Why has she endavoured to be on
independent labels (exception being Elektra); why is she so stubborn with
making the albums herself (hiring people herself to help her on the
albums) and then giving the finished piece of work to the different
distribution companies like Polygram, Mother etc.; why did Bjork refuse to
release the Venus as a Boy remix (Anglo American extension) when the radio
stations rather played that than the original; why didn't Bjork let Venus
as a Boy appear in the Pepsi commercial she was offered; why didn't Bjork
accept writing more songs for Madonna (I am not sure if it's true that
Madonna wanted Bjork to write more songs for her); why didn't Bjork sing
with Madonna at the Brit Awards (and instead chose PJ); why has Bjork
declined to work and sing with several celebrities; why didn't Bjork
release the RH Factor remixes when they topped the American dance chart;
why didn't she release the Pierrot Lunaire thing; why are there so many
unreleased songs with Bjork lying around (for instance the Elgar Sisters
record); lack of promotion...
No, I will stop here with coming up with other things. It's obvious to me
at least that if she was into music for money, then she would have taken
care of marketing herself a whole lot better. Also, she wouldn't have let
OLI be her main record company.
Last but not least, it can be heard on her music that she is into music
for music's sake and not for the money. As she has said several times, she
would have done completely different music if she wanted mass
production.
> being commercial is not BAD! you are good at something, amazing at
> something, and people want this product, so why not sell it to them...if
> your the best at what you do, make it consistant well, hell, go on and
> sell it...and thats what bjork is doing..you act like this is...i mean
> lets look at it, she could have pulled a pearl jam/george micheal..no
> interviews, no videos, no concerts. concerts are a treat tot he fans..yes,
> but concerts are also a marketing tool t promote albums and make money
If your target is to be commercial, then that's really bad IMO, because if
you're into music because you want to sell records, then you lose your
independence. That is, you make music to satisfy as many people as
possible, instead of being into music just to satisfy yourself (as Bjork
says she does).
I have never said that Bjork didn't sell her records and doesn't make
money, what I am saying is that she isn't a commodity like most other
mainstream artists. She doesn't value her work according to the success it
has achieved.
> and i agree with Hutner and Alarm call on soundtracks, that some extra
> cash in the bank, or a down payment on another hummer.(how many people can
> afford one of those things?
As an Icelander said to me; a vehicle that isn't a hummer isn't worth
having, driving around with in Iceland. :-) Yes, but I understand your
point. Of course Bjork has money, although it's not like she doesn't put a
whole lot of what she earns into her music. Most of the things that have
to do with her music are first class, from hiring musicians to help her,
to videos, record sleeves, remixers etc. etc.
> is bjrok an artistic success..of course..no argument...is she a commercial
> one...not here in the us but everywhere else..yes. is tha tbad. of course
> not..not as long as she continues to make good music
Well I wish... The debut era was commercially very successful as well as
"Army of Me" and IOSQ, but nowadays I rarely hear about her at all, at
least here in Sweden.
Of course what's most important is making good music; but I still believe
that if you are into the music business of reasons other than music then
the music will eventually detoriate and become less personal; the aim then
being to satisfy the largest amount of people.
Also, I remember seeing someone that said that the right thing would be to
release several remixes as mp3. I couldn't agree more. Einar has said that
he is working on what can be done with this "new" technology, so maybe
we'll just see things like that in the future. I sure hope so!
Very best regards,
/ Maria
chris and roxanne hare
"holiday" and "deeper." her voice is definitely worse than it used to
be.
Tastybacon wrote:
>
> does anybody agree with me in that, ever since Madonna "learned how to sing"
> for Evita, she sounds worse? it's just a testament to how overrated she is now.
>
> i was never anti-madonna until now. I'm actually quite fond of the majority of
> her previous material. remember when she used to be a trend-setter? now it
> seems she's always one step behind, but trying to act like she's doing
> something new.
> -kim
>
> The thing that men and women need to do is stick together-
> Progressions can't be made if we're seperate forever.
> -Q-Tip, ATCQ
Whitney67
catagories.
There aren't alot of "pop/rock/rap/ect . . " artists who vote for grammys. I
mean Led Zepplin never won a Grammy, and they are one of the most brillant rock
bands in history. The had a huge impact on popular music. And there are heaps
of people who can say the same . . fear not Bjork is in very good company as a
non-grammy winner!
On the other hand, I think the grammy's will honor her soon. . . . I mean
denial can olny last so long! LOL.
bjork rules.
bless.
-Tom
Whit...@aol.com,
tw4...@alpha.rwu.edu