The Glenn Miller Sound
SERGE STODOLNIK
Roger Paulsson wrote:
>
> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
> the clarinetman.Is that true?
I also heard that legend, how he got that sound with clarinette
on top of sax section. However I've never heard live big-band
(at least in my area) that would come anywhere close to that
sound nomatter what instruments they use.
Serge Stodolnik.
Tel: 214-324-9942. voice/fax.
http://www.miditrax.com/sergesmusic.htm
E-MAIL: SERGE...@WORLDNET.ATT.NET
Roger Paulsson
Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
the clarinetman.Is that true?
Sweden
na...@ix.netcom.com
George T. Simon [author "The Big Band Bood"] had a book out solely
devoted to Miller. I've never read it, but understand it's very good
and quite comprehensive. I think it can still be ordered, or you might
try the library. I imagine the "tooth ache legend" is covered in it.
Phil Naify
Michael Shoshani
on Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:00:15 +0100 in article <34A7BA...@algonet.se> in alt.music.big-band, Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> was compelled to write:
> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
> the clarinetman.Is that true?
> Kurt-Allan Paulsson
> Sweden
His second band featured Irv Fazola, a brilliant clarinet player who was a
mediocre sax player. One night, rather than have Faz sit silent, Miller
had him play the tenor sax lead one octave higher, on his clarinet. This
would have been around 1936-37. (Source: "Glenn Miller And His Orchestra"
by George T. Simon)
If you have the Sony Jazz Glenn Miller CD, you can hear the first record
the Miller band ever made with this arrangement: "My Fine Feathered
Friend".
--
shos...@wwa.com // In the beginning, God made idiots;
Michael Shoshani // This was for practice
Chicago IL, USA // Then he made school boards.
http://miso.wwa.com/~shoshani/ // --Mark Twain
CFundGrp
>on Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:00:15 +0100 in article <34A7BA...@algonet.se> in
>alt.music.big-band, Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> was compelled to
>write:
>> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
>> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
>> the clarinetman.Is that true?
>> Kurt-Allan Paulsson
>> Sweden
In 1935 when Miller was the arranger for Ray Noble's American band, he had
written several arrangements that featured trumpter PeeWee Erwin doubling the
lead an octave above another lead line played by the tenor sax. When Erwin left
the band, his replacement didn't have a strong enough lip to handle those high
parts. As an experiment Miller assigned the trumpet part to Johnny Mince
playing clarinet (both instruments are B-flat) and used a violinist, who
doubled on sax as a fifith voice in the reed section. Out came the unique
voicing that Miller would eventually develop into his famous "Miller Sound"
that capitvated the college crowd in the early 40's.
The story about the trumpeter and his teeth probably came from how the Miller
sound was found according to the movie "The Glenn Miller Story" from 1953.
David Sharp
Bilbo Baggins
On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:30:29 -0800, SERGE STODOLNIK
<SERGE...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Roger Paulsson wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
>> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
>> the clarinetman.Is that true?
>
>I also heard that legend, how he got that sound with clarinette
>on top of sax section. However I've never heard live big-band
>(at least in my area) that would come anywhere close to that
>sound nomatter what instruments they use.
>
>
The version I read in the book "Glenn Miller and His Orchestra"
by George T. Simon was that Glenn had used that orchestration
(clarinet over saxes in an exercise he wrote for his arranging
instructor). When he started his own band, he looked for a unique
sound and remembered that exercise, and that was what started the
special "Miller sound".
As for no one being able to duplicate it, you're absolutely right. It
has never been as well as Glenn did it. The reason is that there are
no clarinet players like Wilbur Schwartz, who was the lead clarinet
player all during Glenn's civilian band days. Listen to some of the
recordings by the Glenn Miller AAF band, with Peanuts Hucko on lead
clarinet, and you will hear that they don't sound like the civilian
band, either. Willie Schwartz said that the reason he blended so well
with the saxes was that he didn't play his clarinet like a clarinet,
but like a sax. If you listen to some of his infrequent solos,
especially on "Moonlight Serenade," you'll notice that his tone is
much fuller and robust than either Benny Goodman or Artie Shaw.
Long live the big band sound!
Norm
nor...@juno.com
Soon to be sailing westward
When Frodo returns from Mordor
Dick G.
Roger
The movie "The Glenn Miller Story" showed the lead trumpet player
hurting his lip right before a maiden performance, so Glenn spent
the whole night re-writing the charts (right??). Walla! The Glenn
Miller sound.
Basically the sound is derived from putting Clarinet on lead in the
sax section, with 2 altos and 2 tenors on the other parts. Close
harmony is employed, which puts the lead tenor kind of high. You need
a tenor sax who can play iin tune in the high register.
Dick Gulbrandsen
Roger Paulsson wrote:
>
> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
> the clarinetman.Is that true?
> Kurt-Allan Paulsson
> Sweden
Richard Fenno
that movie . . . .argh!
i played on the glenn miller (ghost) band and with the mods, and i have a
perspective about the band because my dad was an arranger who idolized
glenn (the arranger, not glenn the man).
but that movie is a WORK OF FICTION, and the incidents portrayed therein
are to be taken with a grain of salt. more than anything else, the movie
has ingrained in the public the idea that glenn and jimmy stewart are the
same cat. believe me, after hanging with some of his sidemen over the
years, glenn and jimmy stewart are NOT the same guy!
result=mythology.
if jimmy stewart played attilla the hun, *his* ghost band would probably
still be pulling in money for the heirs.
my 2 bits.
richard fenno
==============
Spiced8913
>Subject: Re: The Glenn Miller Sound
>From: na...@ix.netcom.com
>Date: Mon, Dec 29, 1997 19:07 EST
>Message-id: <34A83B...@ix.netcom.com>
>
>Roger Paulsson wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
>> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
>> the clarinetman.Is that true?
>> Kurt-Allan Paulsson
>> Sweden
>
>devoted to Miller. I've never read it, but understand it's very good
>and quite comprehensive. I think it can still be ordered, or you might
>try the library. I imagine the "tooth ache legend" is covered in it.
>
>Phil Naify
>
>
>
>
>
Read it,but I never read about the tooth ache legend. Did have other things
like the tension between art and commercialism,his rivals (Sammy Kaye,Frank
SInatra,Ella,Bing,Dick Haymes,Guy Lomabrdo,Basie,and so forth both in singing
which he of course was not known for,and leading which he was known for),the
wartime efforts,the recordings,and of course the legendary career overall that
he had.
It was written in 1974,but it avaibole to borrow,or to browse at a locall
libary.Biography sections do have them,BTW.I have enjoyed the book,when I
borrowed it.I have the BIG BANDS.
Leo Walker was the author of two great big band books on the nostalgic
front..WONDERFUL ERA OF THE GREAT DANCE BANDS (1964 and updated) and the BIG
BAND ALMANAC.Hopefully they'll do another if still lviing.SImon did a liners in
1993 for Sammy Kay'es greates hits album,of all things.This is accrdong to
another band book,Bernie Woods(another one who actually was there),1994 WHEN
THE MUSIC STOPPED>
I dont know how he got the sound,my self.Myabe the same way Guy Lombardo
did,just practice and evolution.Jooel Whitburn's Glenn Miller entry (Pop
Memories,Billboord Record Reasearch,1986)pointed out it took two faiklures for
the band of Glenn Miller to sweep the nation,even though he';d already,among
others successfully arranged for Ray Noble in his first US job("always darkest
before the dawn,I guess.)
Very interesting subject.BTW the sound was created by a te
clarient then a tenor sax,in case anyone was confsued.
"You can love your pets,but just don't....LOVE your pets"-Janeane Garofalo
Steve C.,aka,gcarras,aka Spiced8913(Love,those Spice Girls!)
<a href="http://members.aol.com/GCarras/index.html">My Home Page</a>
Spiced8913
>Subject: Re: The Glenn Miller Sound
>Date: Tue, Dec 30, 1997 11:56 EST
>Message-id: <19971230165...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
>>on Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:00:15 +0100 in article <34A7BA...@algonet.se> in
>>alt.music.big-band, Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> was compelled to
>>write:
>>> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
>>> the clarinetman.Is that true?
>>> Kurt-Allan Paulsson
>>> Sweden
>
>written several arrangements that featured trumpter PeeWee Erwin doubling the
>lead an octave above another lead line played by the tenor sax. When Erwin
>left
>the band, his replacement didn't have a strong enough lip to handle those
>high
>parts. As an experiment Miller assigned the trumpet part to Johnny Mince
>playing clarinet (both instruments are B-flat) and used a violinist, who
>doubled on sax as a fifith voice in the reed section. Out came the unique
>voicing that Miller would eventually develop into his famous "Miller Sound"
>that capitvated the college crowd in the early 40's.
>The story about the trumpeter and his teeth probably came from how the Miller
Havne't seen the entirety of it,though,so I can't comment .
Spiced8913
>Subject: Re: The Glenn Miller Sound
>Date: Tue, Dec 30, 1997 18:16 EST
>Message-id: <rfenno-ya02408000...@news.earthlink.net>
>
>that movie . . . .argh!
>
>i played on the glenn miller (ghost) band and with the mods, and i have a
>perspective about the band because my dad was an arranger who idolized
>glenn (the arranger, not glenn the man).
>
>but that movie is a WORK OF FICTION, and the incidents portrayed therein
>are to be taken with a grain of salt. more than anything else, the movie
>has ingrained in the public the idea that glenn and jimmy stewart are the
>same cat. believe me, after hanging with some of his sidemen over the
>years, glenn and jimmy stewart are NOT the same guy!
>
>result=mythology.
Maybe Jimmy Stewart should have played Kay Kyser..:)
Of course Miller,Artie Shaw and even the more commercial bands (Waring,Sammy
Ksaye),werent known to be magnaminous to their musicians,yet Kyser,Les Brown
etrc.seemed pretty nice guys.
Shaw is known to be quite the prviate intellectual,an egghead or something.I
know that he has said he's cursed with serious minded ness.How true was this?
(Of course as a personality Buddy RIch didn't win too many contests,but he
could sure drum,I;'lldmit)
Just MY two pennies.
COSMO KRAMER
COSMO KRAMER <bwal...@sprynet.com> wrote in article
<01bd0796$5bc26fc0$31cbafce@default>...
> Actually. The Trumpeter's lip busted, but that's beyond the point. Glenn
> aranged his music very tightly harmonized and in Moonlight Seranade, for
> example. He arranged the clarinet above the rest of the band. But that's
> just Moonlight Seranade. Normally you don't hear much clarinet. You will
> mostly hear the Alto Saxaphone and B flat trumpet. Underneath all of that
> comes the Trombone, and Barri Sax. Under that is the piano and drums. And
> under all of that, supporting the balance of the band, you hear the Sring
> Bass.
>
> Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> wrote in article
> <34A7BA...@algonet.se>...
SNAV88
> Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> wrote in article
> <34A7BA...@algonet.se>...
> > Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
> > it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
> > the clarinetman.Is that true?
> > Kurt-Allan Paulsson
> > Sweden
As an arranger for Ray Noble, Miller wrote this voicing of clarinet lead
doubled by a Tenor sax 8vaBa with a fast vibrato. Ray Noble rejected the sound
as it was not in keeping with his ideas and his desired style sound. At that
point it was dropped and when Glenn started his band, he presented that
voicing, being what he liked, and felt would produce results of public acclaim.
He was correct and Noble suffered for it.
Insofar as the movie, forget Hollywood and their "means of showing
uniquediscovery" to portray Glenn as a God. Glenn was smart and used his
education to promote an income for survival, like the rest of us.
Richard Fenno
>
> Insofar as the movie, forget Hollywood and their "means of showing
> uniquediscovery" to portray Glenn as a God. Glenn was smart and used his
> education to promote an income for survival, like the rest of us.
amen to that, brother.
Ken Sherry
Coincidentally "The Glenn Miller Story" is showing here ( Melbourne,
Australia ) today New Year's Day, at noon. Get to hear all that wonderful
stuff again for the umpteenth time.
Ken Sherry
SNAV88 <sna...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971231033...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>
> > Roger Paulsson <rog...@algonet.se> wrote in article
> > <34A7BA...@algonet.se>...
> > > Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have
heard
> > > it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced
by
> > > the clarinetman.Is that true?
> > > Kurt-Allan Paulsson
> > > Sweden
>
> As an arranger for Ray Noble, Miller wrote this voicing of clarinet lead
> doubled by a Tenor sax 8vaBa with a fast vibrato. Ray Noble rejected the
sound
> as it was not in keeping with his ideas and his desired style sound. At
that
> point it was dropped and when Glenn started his band, he presented that
> voicing, being what he liked, and felt would produce results of public
acclaim.
> He was correct and Noble suffered for it.
>
Brian Chipney
Willie Schwartz had one of the great clarinet sounds of all time!! He's
been one of my heroes for many years - used to see him sitting in now
and then with Mort Lindsey's studio orch on the Merv Griffin Show (Herb
Ellis, Plas Johnson, Jack Sheldon, Benny Powell, Jake Hanna, Bill
Berry, Richie Kamuca - WOW! We won't see a regular band like that on
any shows again!! Anyone have a videotape of Merv's tribute to Benny
Goodman, with Mel Powell and BG playing together? I live for Benny
Goodman, but I had to rehearse that night and missed it!! :-<). Willie
has also recorded with some of the LA-based big bands (I think one was
Bill Berry's back in the '70's, if I remember correctly), playing some
good stuff on alto. If you get a chance, pick up the video of Orchestra
Wives, one of the movies the Miller band made. The back of the box has
a little note that says the soundtrack was restored from original dual
track recordings of the Miller band. The sound is absolutely fabulous -
it's undoubtedly the closest we'll ever come to hearing what that band
REALLY sounded like! By the way, does anyone know if Mr. Schwartz is
still with us?
In article <34a9177d...@news.mindspring.com>, bilbo@rivendell“
says...
>
>On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:30:29 -0800, SERGE STODOLNIK
><SERGE...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Roger Paulsson wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have
heard
>>> it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was
replaced by
>>> the clarinetman.Is that true?
>>
radi...@bestweb.net
Unfortunately, Willie passed away in 1990. He was a great help to me
when I played on Nelson Riddle's band. He came over and said he knew
what it was like to be the youngest guy on the band...BTW, Stan
Aaronson, who was in the Miller band at the beginning, told me that
Miller made up his mind about guys almost instantly and that even though
he loved Willie's section playing, he wasn't a fan of Willie's soloing
and that is why, according to MOOSE Aaronson, Willie didn't get solo
space on the band. Al Klink took Stan's place in the sax section. Klink
hated the music and was famous for saying years later, Why didn't Glenn
Miller live and his Music die?
Happy New Year...
MB
Russ Evans
Richard Fenno <rfe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> i played on the glenn miller (ghost) band and with the mods, and i have a
> perspective about the band because my dad was an arranger who idolized
> glenn (the arranger, not glenn the man).
One of the (amateur) bands I play with has a number of charts attributed
to "Dick Fenno" or "R.Fenno". Offhand, I recall a swinging "I'm gonna
sit right down and write myself a letter" and a version of "Lush Life"
which generates a discussionevery time it's called because the
bandleader counts it in far too fast! I had assumed that the "R.Fenno"
was yourself, Richard. So please tell us more. Are these your father's
arrangements, or yours? Who did he arrange for, and when?
Russ
Richard Fenno
dick fenno was my dad (1927-1967). he was the first drummer allowed into
the schilinger house, which became berklee school (now college) of music.
my dad taught at westlake in its last year (in laguna beach, calif.), set
up a garage-based business selling charts to high schools, sold that, set
up another, sold that, then went to work for charles hansen when it was the
biggest publisher around, doing some very odd assignments of pop tunes (my
favorite is a very chormatic and ironic chart of spanish eyes). also wrote
for hal leonard, c.l. barnhouse (check out the lunceford special! man that
is a great chart!) and died unexpectedly right after starting a music
program at famous artists school in westport, connecticut (long since out
of business, but remembered in this country by its odd "we'll teach anyone
to draw"--or "write"--or whatever.) my dad also wrote one chart for stan
kenton and a lot of t.v. ghosting and orchestration.
i write too but my charts say "richard" on them. i play all the saxophones
and things, live in austin texas after a long time in southern california.
i am a writer--i review music software for macworld magazine and i have a
book coming out in february about claris home page 3. (see amazon.com for
details.)
rf
=====================
In article <1d282nj.s8...@seismo.demon.co.uk>,
peroj...@gmail.com
> Roger Paulsson wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody knows how Glenn Miller got his special sound. I have heard
> > it was because his first trumpeter got a teeth ache and was replaced by
> > the clarinetman.Is that true?
>
> I also heard that legend, how he got that sound with clarinette
> on top of sax section. However I've never heard live big-band
> (at least in my area) that would come anywhere close to that
> sound nomatter what instruments they use.
>
>