Michael English/Amy Grant
rig...@mail.excite.com
Why didn't he get the same support from the "Christian" community when he
separated from his wife?
Kevin L. Kitchens
Right now, Michael English is a little higher on the list, because he was
forthright with what he did, accepted the consequences, and moved toward
repentence. He returned his Dove award as well.
rig...@mail.excite.com wrote in message <369285c7...@news.edge.net>...
rig...@mail.excite.com
wrote:
>rig354 wrote:
>
>>So why is Amy Grant any different from Michael English?
>>Why didn't he get the same support from the "Christian" community when he
>>separated from his wife?
>
>MUSIC ROW
>Christian music business supports Grant, Chapman after separation
>
>By Tom Roland / Tennessean Staff Writer
>
>The Christian music industry demonstrated support for singers
>Amy Grant and Gary Chapman yesterday, following the announcement
>that the couple is separating after 16 years of marriage.
>
>"She was originally a Myrrh artist, she's still a Myrrh artist,
>and she will remain a Myrrh artist," Word Entertainment president
>Roland Lundy said of Grant, who has recorded for Word's Myrrh label
>for more than 20 years. "Other than that, we haven't made any
>decisions (about how to proceed). We haven't even gotten the
>management team together. Most of them are on holiday. My position,
>we're gonna support her and Gary, help 'em any way we can."
>
>Grant became one of Christian music's biggest performers in the early
>1980s, and then expanded into pop music. Chapman, who achieved prominence
>as a Christian songwriter and performer, has been host of TNN's Prime
>Time Country since 1996.
>
>A separation in other musical genres would hardly be considered grounds
>to reassess an artist. But Christian music is founded on its spiritual
>message, and its audience ranges from liberal Christians, who are apt
>to sympathize with a couple on the rocks, to extremely conservative,
>Christians, who may not. Christian retailers have been known to pull
>product from the shelves when a recording artist's personal life becomes
>controversial.
>
>"I think Christian retailers bear a responsibility to the Christian
>community, and when a consumer enters the doors of a Christian retail
>establishment, they automatically subject that retailer to a higher
>set of standards than the record store down the street, right or wrong,"
>observed Gospel Music Association board member Bill Simmons, operations
>manager for three Cedar Springs Christian Stores in the Knoxville area.
>"We have a responsibility placed on us to make sure the products we
>carry maintain integrity in accordance with biblical values and
>principles."
>
>
>Within 24 hours following the Grant/Chapman announcement, retailers
>indicated they would continue to sell their product, but added that
>they would periodically re-evaluate the situation.
>
>"In a case like with Amy Grant and Gary Chapman,m where things haven't
>all fallen out, we try to withhold judgment until the facts are made
>clear," said Michael Wall, of Solid Rock Music & Video, a significant
>Christian store in Billings, Mont. "We're not interested in hammering
>anybody. We're interested in providing products that point to Jesus
>Christ."
>
>Bruce Munns, a vice president with Nashville-based LifeWay Christian
>Stores, expressed "regret" over the separation, and said the company
>"will pray for them, as they have requested."
>
>"We now have the benefit of history to see how things occur after news
>like this hits us," GMA president Frank Breeden observed.
>
>Breeden was alluding to scandals in recent years involving Christian
>artists Michael English and Sandi Patty. English was chastised for
>his relationship with a backup singer in 1994, although he has since
>returned to Christian music and his music is once again being carried
>by most stores. Patty left her husband to marry a man with whom she
>had had an affair, but the industry was much more forgiving.
>
>Breeden and others are quick to differentiate between the Grant/Chapman
>separation and those earlier situations, although they hope the industry
>is better equipped to deal with any degree of personal tribulations in
>its star performers.
>
>"I would remind our industry and our public, no matter who is getting
>a headline with their personal difficulties, they are people like we
>are, and none of us are perfect," Breeden said.
>
>"The messages in the music that Amy and Gary have sung -- and will sing
>-- their validity is not changed or lessened by their personal human
>experience. Truth doesn't get more true, or less true. It is not a victim
>of circumstance, or the stock market, or a weather report or a family
>event like this."
Again, I ask. Why the double standard? English's music was yanked from the
shelves when he announced his "separation". Grant's and Chapman's were not.
Why?
pj
far, neither Gary nor Amy has made that sort of confession.
We have heard many speculate about the reason for the seperation, was it
Gary's drinking? (I didn't know that he had a problem with that), or was
it Amy and Vince's "friendship"? (didn't know that was a problem
either). Right now, we know nothing so let's not try and hazard a
guess. Those of us who listen to Amy's music and/or Gary's music are
fans and know that these people are hurting. Let's quit arguing with
one another about whether or not divorce is good or bad. Let's quit
trying to find fault or blame. Let's just keep our eyes on the Father
and know that when Amy & Gary want us to know more, they'll tell us.
rig...@mail.excite.com wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:21:29 -0500, behindtheChapmansalltheway@God'sCountry.edu
> wrote:
>
> >rig354 wrote:
> >
> >>So why is Amy Grant any different from Michael English?
> >>Why didn't he get the same support from the "Christian" community when he
> >>separated from his wife?
> >
>
A2000
pj wrote in message <3692F3...@mah-online.com>...
rig...@mail.excite.com
>I'm guessing it's because Michael English confessed to an affair and so
>far, neither Gary nor Amy has made that sort of confession.
>
so the Christian music community will continue to embrace you so long as you
don't confess to an affair when you split up? So Michael's mistake was
confessing? I thought confession was a prominent part of the Christian faith.
It would seem to be more sinful to hide the truth.
Kevin L. Kitchens
wronged. And if he went against the image he was portraying to those who
supported him, then the confession to them was valid.
It sounds like it took him a lot of character.
--
-----
Kevin L. Kitchens, Editor, The Perfect Game
The Perfect Game - Your single source for Baseball Gaming news, interviews,
reviews, previews and leagues. A subsidiary site of The Gamer's Voice.
http://www.gamersvoice.com/PerfectGame
------
rig...@mail.excite.com wrote in message <3693b904...@news.edge.net>...
pj
to.
halb...@spiritone.com
>Again, I ask. Why the double standard? English's music was yanked from the
>shelves when he announced his "separation". Grant's and Chapman's were not.
>Why?
Perhapse it is called growth. Michael English was the first big
artist to have that happen in the CCM industry, at least the first I
recall. If you'll remember, the industry wasn't a knee-jerk with
Sandy Patty. I think what it shows is that the industry is more
concerned with supporting and helping it's fallen members than killing
them off.
A2000
Clinton still plays golf. Aren't people funny????
halb...@spiritone.com wrote in message
<369484c...@news.spiritone.com>...
rig...@mail.excite.com
why is loving two women sinful but separating from your family is not?
Dave
members, even if that means throwing out the fallen members victims, that
just happened to be members also. Christians have a lot of double
standards. Yes, I agree, both parties music should have been pulled or none
pulled. In today's world the husband is not always able to hold a marriage
together.
A2000 wrote in message <50tl2.233$IC3.2...@news2.avtel.net>...
Sam Hagedorn
record company that he didn't want to be involved with the Christian
music industry because of the way he felt he was being treated. I was
running the music department of a Christian Bookstore at the time and
felt I had to honor his request to remove his music from my shelves.
When he changed his mind, we quickly added his music.
With respect,
Sam Hagedorn
DogPonySho
actually with cocaine, but that was back in the EARLY 80'S (!!!), so let's not
jump on that bandwagon, it's a very OLD story that has been dealt with by Gary
and the Lord a LONG time ago.
Doug
thelightsareonbutnobodyshomemyelevatordoesntgotothetopImnotplayingwithaful
ldeckIvelostmymarbles.thelightsareonbutnobodyshomemyelevatordoesntgotothet
opImnotplayingwithafulldeckIvelostmymarbles
Ed Robertson '92
Sabrina Holman
English from the beginning and never understood the CCM industry's violent
reaction after he attempted to return his Dove awards and explained why
(and as a side note the GMA would not take the awards back). But why is it
that Sandi Patti can have an affair, divorce her husband, and marry the man
she had an affair with and no one says anything. How ridiculous is that?
Secondly, why the Grant-Chapman marriage is at a point of crisis is not
really any of our business. All I intend to do is hope that they make the
decision that is best for them.
Sabrina
SWatson932
>actually with cocaine, but that was back in the EARLY 80'S (!!!), so let's
>not
>jump on that bandwagon, it's a very OLD story that has been dealt with by
>Gary
>and the Lord a LONG time ago.
Yes it is an old story but I wanted to add...that Gary has been drug free since
1986. This is info that he posted on his board last year.
rig...@mail.excite.com
>>Not that it really matters (because it doesnt!!!) but Gary's problem was
>>actually with cocaine, but that was back in the EARLY 80'S (!!!), so let's
>>not
>>jump on that bandwagon, it's a very OLD story that has been dealt with by
>>Gary
>>and the Lord a LONG time ago.
>
>Yes it is an old story but I wanted to add...that Gary has been drug free since
>1986.
but he was seen drinking alcohol publicly in 1998 in Nashville...is it ok to
drink alcohol if you've admitted an addiction to cocaine?
rig...@mail.excite.com
>Not that it really matters (because it doesnt!!!) but Gary's problem was
>actually with cocaine, but that was back in the EARLY 80'S (!!!), so let's not
>jump on that bandwagon, it's a very OLD story that has been dealt with by Gary
>and the Lord a LONG time ago.
>
>Doug
>
>thelightsareonbutnobodyshomemyelevatordoesntgotothetopImnotplayingwithaful
>ldeckIvelostmymarbles.thelightsareonbutnobodyshomemyelevatordoesntgotothet
>opImnotplayingwithafulldeckIvelostmymarbles
>
>Ed Robertson '92
so if you've kicked an addiction to cocaine, then it's ok to drink alcohol?
Covenant
rig...@mail.excite.com wrote in message
>
>but he was seen drinking alcohol publicly in 1998 in Nashville...is it ok
to
>drink alcohol if you've admitted an addiction to cocaine?
Look, I'm really sorry, no offense intended, but reading the above only
made me wonder what *you* are on!
Covenant
R & T
says...
> but he was seen drinking alcohol publicly in 1998 in Nashville...is it ok to
> drink alcohol if you've admitted an addiction to cocaine?
>
you'd have to check chapter and verse on that one.
--
StoneCry
#sawhorse On Undernet.org IRC
bucpo...@PLEASEdiversicomm.com
http://www.diversicomm.com/bucpo/index.html
SWatson932
>drink alcohol if you've admitted an addiction to cocaine?
Did "you" see him drinking in public or private, for that matter?????
It's still an old story. As long as Gary has not admitted publicly that he has
a "problem" with alcohol...what difference does it make if he was seen
drinking? People drink socially all the time.
Give it a rest.
SWatson932
Don't know anyone, personally, that fits that type of behavior. Can't
answerthe question.
rig...@mail.excite.com
yes I and many others saw him drinking beer on stage at an event and even joking
about it...(after a while he appeared drunk)
and anyone who knows anything about drug addiction knows that drug addicts (any
drug, alcohol or cocaine) must abstain totally from any drugs (alcohol or
cocaine) that alter your mind....eg. a beer addict can't use cocaine either....a
cocaine addict can't drink alcohol either...there's no such thing as being
addict to just one mind altering substance...
Covenant
rig...@mail.excite.com wrote in message
<...there's no such thing as being
>addict to just one mind altering substance...
Really?
So all smokers are doomed??
Or potential alcoholics or smackheads?
Just an observation...
myself I've done none of them...
Covenant.
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
SWatson932
>joking
>about it...(after a while he appeared drunk)
What event?
Ann Michaloski
> even joking
> about it...(after a while he appeared drunk)
Gary? Joking and appearing drunk? Sounds like a typical night on
PTC. It could just be that its his personality to be a little goofy.
> and anyone who knows anything about drug addiction knows that drug
> addicts (any
> drug, alcohol or cocaine) must abstain totally from any drugs (alcohol
> or
> cocaine) that alter your mind....eg. a beer addict can't use cocaine
> either....a
> cocaine addict can't drink alcohol either...there's no such thing as
> being
> addict to just one mind altering substance...
Just one word about these two substances if your an abuser. "
Destructive." Cocaine messes people up so bad that I think they really
need healing from God to ever be normal again. I think God has done that
for Gary. Fooling around with alcohol when you have an addictive
personality is very risky. It makes everyone around that loves you feel
like your walking on the edge of a cliff, and a family feel like your
dangling them over the edge. At least thats how it is for the people I
know who are dealing with this in there family. But its rumor anyway
who knows if its even true.
Ann Michaloski
> alcohol?
Not if your going to go by typical rehab protocol.
Holiglitly
>Again, I ask. Why the double standard? English's music was yanked from the
>shelves when he announced his "separation". Grant's and Chapman's were not.
>Why?
I gave this a lot of thought after the Sandi Patty incident. This sounds
horrible, but there definitely did seem to be a double standard, and it had to
do with the "Bottom line", which is money. A lot of A&R guys do not profess to
be practicing Christians, and Patty and Grant have made a lot of money for
their labels.
i personally think the labels should show a bit of integrity, and if they have
a policy, stick with it. It sends mixed messages to kids, and even adults
actually. It's all just sad.
Amy
PS.... my bottom line isn't money, i am just talking about the labels.. sorry
for any confusion
Holiglitly
From: rig...@mail.excite.com
>but he was seen drinking alcohol publicly in 1998 in Nashville...is it ok to
>drink alcohol if you've admitted an addiction to cocaine?
How can you even ask us to make that decision?? Isn't that Gary and God's
business??
BTW, who in the world is watching Gary's every move and carrying back info to
whomever?? That is so odd!
amy
Holiglitly
OK, I have been a good sweet girl up til now, but this is just annoying:
From: rig...@mail.excite.com
>yes I and many others saw him drinking beer on stage at an event and even
>joking
>about it...(after a while he appeared drunk)
>
>and anyone who knows anything about drug addiction knows that drug addicts
>(any
>drug, alcohol or cocaine) must abstain totally from any drugs (alcohol or
>cocaine) that alter your mind....eg. a beer addict can't use cocaine
>either....a
>cocaine addict can't drink alcohol either...there's no such thing as being
>addict to just one mind altering substance...
DOESN'T THAT HALO HURT YOUR HEAD?? IT MUST BE AWFULLY HARD TO WALK AROUND WITH
THAT THING ALL DAY, EH??
:-)
like i said, i sho would hate to be famous and trying to walk with God with all
of these self appointed judges around!!! man, i would be killed in the street
;-)
aim
alh...@aol.com
>like i said, i sho would hate to be famous and trying to walk with God with all
>of these self appointed judges around!!! man, i would be killed in the street
and that's the whole point. If you hold yourself out to be all high and
mighty..that is...someone who sings music that promotes beliefs that alcohol
abuse and divorce are wrong...then you better be ready to accept the cirticism
when you get drunk or divorced in public...they chose to take their lives
publicly...not us.
randmel
English/Sandy Patty incidents? That maybe after reacting so harshly to the
English situation that they determined that was not the best action to take
on the matter. Maybe they felt they were too judgmental at first, and when
another situation arose decided to handle it differently. Christians are
always berating other Christians for being so judgmental to each other
instead of lifting each other up. If the bottom line was money, then why
did they pull English's albums? He was a huge hit! He'd just won Dove
awards out the wazoo.
I think I'd prefer to give the Christian music industry the benefit of the
doubt on this one. That sure seems to be the approach they are taking with
Amy and Gary.
Holiglitly wrote in message <19990117050051...@ng116.aol.com>...