Dear friends [and Sugar Ray fans! ;-)], an absolute must-read
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
and the true shit of the entertainment cycle out there, but this,
I venture to you, is one of the best I've ever *EVER* read. Just
read and enjoy -- the writer has known the bandmembers to an extent
for years and, well, you'll see. Massive entertainment, and no
doubt to those like ML who have worked in the business, all too
familiar and stupid as well:
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/99/46/feedback-fryer.shtml
Ned
ned chortling heartily at it all at kuci.org
Brian MacDonald
fred
Brian MacDonald <bri...@kuci.org> wrote in message
news:kA5m3.1444$dc7.3...@newsfeed.intelenet.net...
will be pleased, verily so.
peace...fred
(np: pet shop boys, "kdx125")
Matthew Maxwell
Raggett <n...@SPAMNOTkuci.org> wrote:
> http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/99/46/feedback-fryer.shtml
I love the internet.
I'm glad that i'm not in it for the money, too.
-Matt
--
mmax...@nospam.san.rr.com
"Sea monkeys are NOT PRIMATES!" -- Max, of Sam and Max
remove 'nospam' to reply
Josh Kortbein
: There are certainly other well-written tales of rock and roll scumdom
: and the true shit of the entertainment cycle out there, but this,
: I venture to you, is one of the best I've ever *EVER* read. Just
: read and enjoy -- the writer has known the bandmembers to an extent
: for years and, well, you'll see. Massive entertainment, and no
: doubt to those like ML who have worked in the business, all too
: familiar and stupid as well:
: http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/99/46/feedback-fryer.shtml
: Ned
: ned chortling heartily at it all at kuci.org
Chortling? This made me depressed.
Josh
NP: Weezer, s/t
--
Joel is a sex machine.
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
>
> Chortling? This made me depressed.
Some parts of it *are* very depressing, especially the encounter with
the hooker in SF. But in terms of black humor overall -- and the fact
that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't anything
like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
Ned
ned getting all thoughtful and all that at kuci.org
Josh Kortbein
: Josh Kortbein wrote:
: >
: > Chortling? This made me depressed.
: Some parts of it *are* very depressing, especially the encounter with
: the hooker in SF. But in terms of black humor overall -- and the fact
: that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't anything
: like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
: laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
Actually it spurred some thoughts and questions about what some of
the financial differences are between major-label bands and indie bands -
i.e., how much they can expect to earn, etc.
They were really sort of general though and I'm not sure where to
look for more information.
Josh
NP: Mike Watt, _Ball Hog or Tugboat?_
--
i wanna know, am i the sky or a bird?
Wilson Zorn
to get a firm deal before he went in, as well as he seems oddly surprized by
the goings on. If he's being honest I feel bad for him but of course we're
also hearing just his side of it. It's amazing just how many people
(authority figures) he seems to have a problem with, so I suspect he's a
part of the whole sick circus, not just some innocent dragged into it.
Finally, it seems strange to me he's so taken aback by what he sees - has he
never read a book or listened to an interview in his life OR is he just
trying to get back at those he perceived screwed him by making a big story
out of everything? He's either none-too-with-it or an asshole I would
guess. And regardless of what he was through, his sabotage of the last
night is inexcusable - you don't like the job you do/the company you keep,
you split, you don't go down to thier level. Anyway, as usual best of luck
to all concerned, this guy, Sugar Ray, and the hooker. They certainly all
need it.
Josh Kortbein <kort...@iastate.edu> wrote in message
news:7ncthd$q7j$1...@news.iastate.edu...
> Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett (n...@SPAMNOTkuci.org) wrote:
> : There are certainly other well-written tales of rock and roll scumdom
> : and the true shit of the entertainment cycle out there, but this,
> : I venture to you, is one of the best I've ever *EVER* read. Just
> : read and enjoy -- the writer has known the bandmembers to an extent
> : for years and, well, you'll see. Massive entertainment, and no
> : doubt to those like ML who have worked in the business, all too
> : familiar and stupid as well:
>
> : http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/99/46/feedback-fryer.shtml
>
> : Ned
> : ned chortling heartily at it all at kuci.org
>
> Chortling? This made me depressed.
>
>
>
>
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
>
> Sounds like a naive young guy who among other things didn't have the sense
> to get a firm deal before he went in, as well as he seems oddly surprized by
> the goings on.
He's actually been performing in local bands for quite a while -- no
spring chicken on that front. Admittedly, this was not spelled out
in the article, but there we are. As to being oddly surprised -- well,
can you say *you* weren't at points? If you weren't, I'd venture to
say you were either someone who has seen it all in the business
[and perhaps you have -- I know ML has!] but therefore surely can
appreciate that what might be standard for said business can be
truly surprising or strange for most everyone else, or someone who
is completely cynical to expect absolute nothing less no matter what
the situation. I'm fairly cynical myself, but I'm not *that* cynical.
He knew some of the bandmembers on a casual basis and was asked in
-- any number of parallels suggest themselves in other aspects of
life, really. He thought it would be good on several fronts, if not
perfect, but found himself disillusioned on those points. Nothing
about it struck me as a 'heigh-ho, I'm going on tour with these
guys who love me and consider me their bestest friends, and nothing
will go wrong!' Rather, he had certain expectations that were
miserably dashed on top of other BS as well. At least, this is
how I see it all.
> If he's being honest I feel bad for him but of course we're
> also hearing just his side of it.
Fair. But what kind of defense can be offered in so many of those
situations, really? McGrath reacts on a Pavlovian basis, as the author
points out, whenever someone calls him an asshole -- he agrees with it
and makes it part of his schtick. So now somebody *really* calls him
an asshole and offers up some tales. I'd be interested if this came
to a court case, say, because I'll be willing to bet if it did the
author would be vindicated on the most part.
I'll also tell you why I trust his tale -- if he himself ever really
wanted to 'make it' in the industry, he just shot himself in the
foot by telling all, naming names. Who'd want to sign him, work
with him, in the industry as a result? This guy *knows* word of
this will get around, and I'd be willing to bet he doesn't care,
and will just keep on keeping on. How many side pros and other folks
in similar situations have been keeping quiet for the sake of employment,
I have to wonder?
> It's amazing just how many people
> (authority figures) he seems to have a problem with, so I suspect he's a
> part of the whole sick circus, not just some innocent dragged into it.
This part confuses me slightly -- if you're referring to, say, the
one manager guy complaining about the sticker, why *wouldn't* you have
a problem with that? Could you be a little more specific as to why
you think he shouldn't be trusted on that particular basis? Or
do you yourself never have a problem with authority figures ever?
;-)
> Finally, it seems strange to me he's so taken aback by what he sees - has he
> never read a book or listened to an interview in his life
Come, this gets ridiculous. I'll lay it on the line -- were I in his
shoes, knowing that the rock business is laden with assholery and
that things aren't what they same most of the time, *I'd* be taken
aback by a lot of this stuff. Certainly some of it is classic
office politics in a new and odder setting. This said, a lot of the
sheer pettiness would have me wondering how people could act like that,
and the sheer stupidities even more. Lord knows if I ever got to the
point where absolutely *nothing* surprised me anymore and I just
acknowledged it and went 'eh', then...well, no, frankly. That's a
little too cold-blooded for me, and I'm sorry if that somehow is
a problem. You could watch a lifetime of _Behind the Music_ episodes
and still have some -- lots! -- of room for shock.
> He's either none-too-with-it or an asshole I would
> guess.
Would you have done better? I am serious -- you sound like you have
all the answers here. I am intrigued to know why you have been
constantly taking a rather odd tone throughout your response -- I
almost call it Monday-morning quarterbacking.
> And regardless of what he was through, his sabotage of the last
> night is inexcusable - you don't like the job you do/the company you keep,
> you split, you don't go down to thier level.
Fair enough. But this ties into the point I made above -- namely,
you seem to have all the answers here. What exactly entitles you
to this particular approach? I might (*might*) have just left myself -- but
frankly, I don't blame the guy for doing what he did there at all.
Comparatively speaking, I've heard far worse -- and given some of
the stupid shit the band and crew and all that were doing, equating
the erasing of the keyboard with that might make sense on a level
where all sins are equal, which is not something I buy.
> Anyway, as usual best of luck
> to all concerned, this guy, Sugar Ray, and the hooker. They certainly all
> need it.
Because you, apparently, do not? Hm.
Ned
ned wondering more and more about this at kuci.org
Wilson Zorn
questions of me:
- sure, by definition it's "Monday morning quarterback"
- what is it I'm supposed to be surprized about? sounds like he actually
got paid, amazingly enough, whereas many people do not - including by famous
people such as David Bowie and John Lydon (and he in turn by McLaren);
diseased hookers are par for the course; a frontman whose a manipulative
egomaniac with a drug problem; he didn't get what he was promised; him being
shunted to the side (and beyond) of the stage; I guess I'm just not sure; a
lot of this is reminiscent of the Pistols tour through America which is a
well known story
- he takes swipes at virtually every authority figure he encounters, one
could say probably gratuitously - Courtney Love, Billy Idol, the manager he
encounters, the leader of Cake, etc. - now I'm not saying these people
aren't what he says but by the same token he seems absolutely eager; also re
this, as far as this being his side of the story, I find it surprizing the
manager just "backs away" when the writer himself points out his physical
superiority - sounds like he was threatening the guy in some manner
- the sticker episode; okay let's face it, he's working for Sugar Ray and it
is very clear he was sneaking the label into the situation; now I totally
agree that he should have been allowed to do it, but he KNEW he was
violating some unspoken rule (look how he expresses "sneaking" it and how
he's glad nobody saw the videotape); why should he be surprized?; why should
he expect the band should confront him as that is WHY they have managers;
besides it may not even in that situation be the band anyway, although I
think it must be since they seem control-oriented
- as far as why he would risk his name in the industry - well maybe he
already ruined it or maybe more likely he hopes this will be a splash and he
wants a job as a "rock journalist" or who knows why?
- okay, bottom line I was being nice saying he's naive or innocent, but
trying to give him the benefit of the doubt
- re having all the answers, of course I don't, but, yes, I can say with
certainty that I wouldn't sabotage my employer rather than just getting out;
now I might walk out right before the show, even, which is a sort of
sabotage, but I would have to say that since, to me, the whole reason to go
on this tour is to get the next big gig, why poison your name at all?
- what would I have done differently? kept my mouth shut, networked with
the other bands, and looked for new opportunities - that's business - and if
he's good he'll get another one and someday it'll be a good enough gig with
enough real pros that he'll be past this crap - OR I would just get out, if
it's so horrible to him (which is fair) then why not get out? seems to me
like he wants a lot of publicity, just like the tell-all book mentality
- my wife used to be a DJ and previously worked at a famous rock station and
this whole story was "hardly surprizing" to her
- finally, to clarify, no I'm not proposing this is the way things should be
but by the same token you've got a low margin proposition (touring) with a
band which a record company wants to squeeze totally in the here-and-now
because they might not be around tomorrow, plus the band is in that spot of
swelling egos battling with life on the road battling with (one hopes)
artistic aspirations battling with commercial goals; sure as far as touring
goes this is definitely near the bottom of the barrel but my question really
is what exactly is the big surprize in any of this?; we've heard stories of
bands getting dumped in Europe completely with no money and no way to get
home; we've heard of bands that were so degenerate in their off-time
activities that it certainly extends beyond anything we heard here (raping
groupies and such); and egos, well, that's a huge problem; and drugs are de
rigeur unfortunately
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett <n...@SPAMYECH.kuci.org> wrote in message
news:379A5AAC...@SPAMYECH.kuci.org...
ML Compton
'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett <n...@SPAMNOTkuci.org> spread enlightenment
upon the world with this comment:
>There are certainly other well-written tales of rock and roll scumdom
>and the true shit of the entertainment cycle out there, but this,
>I venture to you, is one of the best I've ever *EVER* read. Just
>read and enjoy -- the writer has known the bandmembers to an extent
>for years and, well, you'll see. Massive entertainment, and no
>doubt to those like ML who have worked in the business, all too
>familiar and stupid as well:
Yeah. I didn't find this all that funny as I've experienced things
like it many times before. It's all just so damn pathetic and typical.
Let me try to answer this here as well:
Josh Kortbein wrote:
>Actually it spurred some thoughts and questions about what some of
>the financial differences are between major-label bands and indie bands -
>i.e., how much they can expect to earn, etc.
If Sugar Ray are flying to gigs and getting a $90 a day perdium, then
they're making pretty good money. The fact of the matter was that this
keyboard player was getting ripped off playing for the band for $400 a
week. I made $500 a week as an indie tour manager almost a decade ago
and I was working for cheap! As for perduims, an indie band is lucky
to make $20 a day on perdiums. At the height of TWR's popularity in
Europe, we still managed only $15 a day. (The most I ever heard was
$400 a day from a guitarist who toured with Michael Jackson. I can't
even imagine that.) Most indie bands are also touring the country with
everyone, their luggage and the equipment shoved into a large van and
either sleeping on people floors or trying to sneak people into a
Motel 6 room. This isn't every band, of course. Some indie bands
actually make enough money to tour somewhat comfortably, but nothing
like what was described in this article.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
U-ZIQ "Royal Astronomy"
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
>
> Well, I'm not sure it's worth a lot of time but as you seem to have
> questions of me:
Indeed so. Actually, you've raised some more while answering others,
so let's focus on those new ones.
> - he takes swipes at virtually every authority figure he encounters, one
> could say probably gratuitously - Courtney Love, Billy Idol, the manager he
> encounters, the leader of Cake, etc.
*Authority* figures? Aside from the manager, these are authority
figures? What type of world is this you describe, frankly? I don't
buy this categorization. Entertainers, yes. But how in the world
could you describe any of them as authority figures? They're not
the police, the armed forces, anything to do with civil or religious
leadership.
> he KNEW he was
> violating some unspoken rule (look how he expresses "sneaking" it and how
> he's glad nobody saw the videotape); why should he be surprized?;
I don't immediately recall him being surprised per se -- the rhetoric
indicates he was more doing it as a laugh in the first place. I rather
doubt he was honestly expecting major labels to beat down his door
the following day asking for info and for the world media market to
suddenly ignore Sugar Ray entirely.
> why should
> he expect the band should confront him as that is WHY they have managers;
Oh, so all problems should always be handled by middlemen? Logically,
if I hired a student worker for where I work and he did something I
saw as a problem, instead of telling him directly I should ask my
own supervisor, say, to talk to him. I don't regard that as being
particularly effective or thoughtful an approach -- I *do* regard
it as an evasion of responsibility.
> - as far as why he would risk his name in the industry - well maybe he
> already ruined it or maybe more likely he hopes this will be a splash and he
> wants a job as a "rock journalist" or who knows why?
It might just be me -- and I'm not saying the guy is supposed to be
a saint, but he *does* have a sense of humor and pathos both, which
tends to help -- but claims to the contrary you are relentless in
assuming a strictly negative answer to a lot of his motivations.
Did it ever occur to you that, *just maybe*, he was not fond of
[and now is even less fonder] of the 'industry' in general, that
he has no particular desire to be a journalist and has done it strictly
as a one-off?
> but I would have to say that since, to me, the whole reason to go
> on this tour is to get the next big gig, why poison your name at all?
Because he had had enough and didn't care about 'the next big gig.'
Because this was done as a first-time experience acting as a sideman
and he was fed up with what eventually happened. Why are these
possibilities so hard to consider? You keep assuming that the guy
is a hard-bitten pro who moves from sideman gig to sideman gig,
when the evidence for that is missing. If he's thinking that his
name has been poisoned to the likes of a band he now happily despises
anyway, I can't imagine him losing sleep over it.
> - what would I have done differently? kept my mouth shut, networked with
> the other bands, and looked for new opportunities - that's business -
Again, none of which seems like he was interested in doing at all.
You see a career path where circumstances force you to lie or not tell
the whole truth, which if you have some sense of personal standards
is probably more than a little frustrating, yes? I get no sense that
he was planning on doing this sort of side work forever and ever.
You seem to think it could be worth the b.s.; I happily side with this
guy in saying it *isn't*.
> OR I would just get out, if
> it's so horrible to him (which is fair) then why not get out? seems to me
> like he wants a lot of publicity, just like the tell-all book mentality
A lot of publicity -- listen to you. Is this story on the cover of
_Rolling Stone_? The lead in _SonicNet_? A headline on the _National
Inquirer_? Has the Sugar Ray experience been brought to a grinding
halt because of it all, are questions being raised in Congress?
Hardly. If he wanted to aim for publicity due to one of the more well
known bands at the present time, he could have aimed a lot higher for
potentially a lot more money. Frankly, this story sounds like a case
where somebody at the _Weekly_ heard about it either in a conversation
with the guy or from the friend of a friend and thought, 'Hey, that
would be a cool thing to run with our music issue -- wanna write it
up?' And two to one within weeks whatever relatively minor stir
might be raised will likely ebb to nothing.
> - my wife used to be a DJ and previously worked at a famous rock station and
> this whole story was "hardly surprizing" to her
That's all very nice. But I do believe I was talking to you and not
your wife about this -- though as a DJ myself, I salute her choice
of profession.
> what exactly is the big surprize in any of this?
Maybe there is no 'big surprise' -- as I guessed, ML said he's heard
plenty like this before, and even brought forward some other examples
in comparison. And perhaps what I'm increasingly surprised about
is your take on this all.
Ned
ned thinking it's rather late now, isn't it, at kuci.org
Wilson Zorn
attention in the newsgroup from my end:
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett <n...@SPAMYECH.kuci.org> wrote in message
news:379AD871...@SPAMYECH.kuci.org...
> Wilson Zorn wrote:
> >
> > Well, I'm not sure it's worth a lot of time but as you seem to have
> > questions of me:
>
> Indeed so. Actually, you've raised some more while answering others,
> so let's focus on those new ones.
>
> > - he takes swipes at virtually every authority figure he encounters, one
> > could say probably gratuitously - Courtney Love, Billy Idol, the manager
he
> > encounters, the leader of Cake, etc.
>
> *Authority* figures? Aside from the manager, these are authority
> figures? What type of world is this you describe, frankly? I don't
> buy this categorization. Entertainers, yes. But how in the world
> could you describe any of them as authority figures? They're not
> the police, the armed forces, anything to do with civil or religious
> leadership.
>
These are authority figures in that world. All potential employers. Or
even saying they're not, let's say instead he takes swipes at virtually
everybody he does not regard as a peer.
> > he KNEW he was
> > violating some unspoken rule (look how he expresses "sneaking" it and
how
> > he's glad nobody saw the videotape); why should he be surprized?;
>
> I don't immediately recall him being surprised per se -- the rhetoric
> indicates he was more doing it as a laugh in the first place. I rather
> doubt he was honestly expecting major labels to beat down his door
> the following day asking for info and for the world media market to
> suddenly ignore Sugar Ray entirely.
>
If you don't think he was surprized then the whole incident comes back on
him, he asked for it. That's my point. As far as his intention, of course
I don't believe he thought anything you said would happen. But he did want
the cheap and minor publicity clearly.
> > why should
> > he expect the band should confront him as that is WHY they have
managers;
>
> Oh, so all problems should always be handled by middlemen? Logically,
> if I hired a student worker for where I work and he did something I
> saw as a problem, instead of telling him directly I should ask my
> own supervisor, say, to talk to him. I don't regard that as being
> particularly effective or thoughtful an approach -- I *do* regard
> it as an evasion of responsibility.
>
I didn't say it was right. Just said it's a long-standing reality, and not
merely in the entertainment field. Don't lose focus on the basic issue that
he (and we) should again not be surprized. And by this point in the
narrative he already held the band (or certainly the leader thereof) in
contempt.
> > - as far as why he would risk his name in the industry - well maybe he
> > already ruined it or maybe more likely he hopes this will be a splash
and he
> > wants a job as a "rock journalist" or who knows why?
>
> It might just be me -- and I'm not saying the guy is supposed to be
> a saint, but he *does* have a sense of humor and pathos both, which
> tends to help -- but claims to the contrary you are relentless in
> assuming a strictly negative answer to a lot of his motivations.
> Did it ever occur to you that, *just maybe*, he was not fond of
> [and now is even less fonder] of the 'industry' in general, that
> he has no particular desire to be a journalist and has done it strictly
> as a one-off?
>
As I said, who knows why?
> > but I would have to say that since, to me, the whole reason to go
> > on this tour is to get the next big gig, why poison your name at all?
>
> Because he had had enough and didn't care about 'the next big gig.'
> Because this was done as a first-time experience acting as a sideman
> and he was fed up with what eventually happened. Why are these
> possibilities so hard to consider? You keep assuming that the guy
> is a hard-bitten pro who moves from sideman gig to sideman gig,
> when the evidence for that is missing. If he's thinking that his
> name has been poisoned to the likes of a band he now happily despises
> anyway, I can't imagine him losing sleep over it.
>
This answer is in the context of saying it was wrong to delete the patches
and such as well as what I would do. I never once stated he was a
hard-bitten pro or even implied it anywhere.
> > - what would I have done differently? kept my mouth shut, networked
with
> > the other bands, and looked for new opportunities - that's business -
>
> Again, none of which seems like he was interested in doing at all.
> You see a career path where circumstances force you to lie or not tell
> the whole truth, which if you have some sense of personal standards
> is probably more than a little frustrating, yes? I get no sense that
> he was planning on doing this sort of side work forever and ever.
> You seem to think it could be worth the b.s.; I happily side with this
> guy in saying it *isn't*.
>
Again, you asked me what I would do...and I did say "OR I would just get
out", which you snipped and put below. I didn't say it was necessarily
worth it, and I also tend to agree with the guy it is not worth it - that's
why I don't do it, either.
> > OR I would just get out, if
> > it's so horrible to him (which is fair) then why not get out? seems to
me
> > like he wants a lot of publicity, just like the tell-all book mentality
>
> A lot of publicity -- listen to you. Is this story on the cover of
> _Rolling Stone_? The lead in _SonicNet_? A headline on the _National
> Inquirer_? Has the Sugar Ray experience been brought to a grinding
> halt because of it all, are questions being raised in Congress?
> Hardly. If he wanted to aim for publicity due to one of the more well
> known bands at the present time, he could have aimed a lot higher for
> potentially a lot more money. Frankly, this story sounds like a case
> where somebody at the _Weekly_ heard about it either in a conversation
> with the guy or from the friend of a friend and thought, 'Hey, that
> would be a cool thing to run with our music issue -- wanna write it
> up?' And two to one within weeks whatever relatively minor stir
> might be raised will likely ebb to nothing.
>
I said "wants" the publicity. I didn't say he was achieving it.
> > - my wife used to be a DJ and previously worked at a famous rock station
and
> > this whole story was "hardly surprizing" to her
>
> That's all very nice. But I do believe I was talking to you and not
> your wife about this -- though as a DJ myself, I salute her choice
> of profession.
>
This was in response to your point that this seemed surprizing, so I just
added the nearest voice in saying there were others who do not find it
surprizing (and I just wanted to qualify the person's
background/relationship). Since you are a DJ, I am now utterly shocked and
at loss as to your own response to all of this (unless you've been doing it
less than a year). Talk about professions requiring personal compromise!
Oh, I guess you work at the only station in the country where the jocks
program themselves and remains unthreatened by consultants, internal
politics, and corporate mergers. Don't make the mistake of moving on.
Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett
>
> These are authority figures in that world. All potential employers. Or
> even saying they're not, let's say instead he takes swipes at virtually
> everybody he does not regard as a peer.
Not every famous, relative or not, person in the article is thus
depicted as such. I do not see such total absolutism.
> But he did want
> the cheap and minor publicity clearly.
Frankly, the whole thing just strikes me as funny. Hardly a masterplan.
> Don't lose focus on the basic issue that
> he (and we) should again not be surprized.
If nobody is to be surprised by anything, why even write the story in
the first place? Obviously it was published in a general interest
journal, natch. But you seem to be arguing that because nobody
should be surprised who knows, there's no point for the existence
of the story to begin with. That seems a strange assumption.
> As I said, who knows why?
Quite.
> This answer is in the context of saying it was wrong to delete the patches
> and such as well as what I would do. I never once stated he was a
> hard-bitten pro or even implied it anywhere.
I dunno -- you seemed to be talking about 'going from gig to gig' and
all that. Exactly what am I supposed to think as a result?
> I didn't say it was necessarily
> worth it, and I also tend to agree with the guy it is not worth it - that's
> why I don't do it, either.
Fair enough.
> I said "wants" the publicity. I didn't say he was achieving it.
And I'm saying I don't get the feeling he was doing this as a means
to a further end.
> Since you are a DJ, I am now utterly shocked and
> at loss as to your own response to all of this (unless you've been doing it
> less than a year).
Ten years, actually. And still going strong. Care to make any other
assumptions? I knew skullduggery was afoot, but even I can be taken
aback still by how much skullduggery there is in the industry. I'm
so sorry I wasn't wearing my 'I am a total cynic through and through'
badge the other day.
> Talk about professions requiring personal compromise!
> Oh, I guess you work at the only station in the country where the jocks
> program themselves and remains unthreatened by consultants, internal
> politics, and corporate mergers.
One of many, thanks. It's called college radio. I've been happily
pursuing various shows ever since 1989, and have found the experience
to be excellent. I do indeed program myself, and while every organization
has internal politics, consultants are unknown here and corporate
mergers do not apply. I am hardly unaware of the havoc that has been
wreaked on commercial radio stations everywhere. Instead, it has in
fact stiffened my resolve to never get involved with them -- I've been
told more than once that I would be an excellent DJ at a commercial
station. I am flattered on the level of on-air professionalism, but
I refuse to get involved in a station where I would have no control
over my playlists and would dance to market-research strings. As that
would be just about all of the commercial ones these days -- and increasingly
many of the public ones as well -- that would rather take
care of that.
Ned
ned now off to do his radio show, oddly enough, at kuci.org
keyse...@my-deja.com
n...@SPAMLOATHE.kuci.org wrote:
> Josh Kortbein wrote:
> >
> > Chortling? This made me depressed.
>
> the hooker in SF. But in terms of black humor overall -- and the fact
> that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't anything
> like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
> laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
>
as a guest? Just as annoying and hilarious as you'd imagine, and very
consistant with everything that was written in the article. He didn't
open his mouth unless it was self-serving in some way, and often
gratingly so. I do hope that poor girl gave him something for his
trouble.
key
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
keyse...@my-deja.com
kort...@iastate.edu (Josh Kortbein) wrote:
> Ned 'the Nanite' Raggett (n...@SPAMYECH.kuci.org) wrote:
> : Josh Kortbein wrote:
> : >
> : > Chortling? This made me depressed.
>
> : Some parts of it *are* very depressing, especially the encounter
with
> : the hooker in SF. But in terms of black humor overall -- and the
fact
> : that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't
anything
> : like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
> : laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
>
> the financial differences are between major-label bands and indie
bands -
> i.e., how much they can expect to earn, etc.
>
> look for more information.
>
piece sometime ago about bands and majors vs indies, but I don't have
the url handy. On a slightly related note, there's the story of the
Meat Puppets--a long lasting indie band that goes major, scores a hit,
gets oodles of cash at their disposal, goes on tour with STP, and ends
up imploding under a cloud of classic rock cliches and drug addiction.
Far as I know, Cris Kirkwood is still MIA (or did he actually die?),
consigned to living death status by his own brother either way. Another
example of rock 'n' roll debauchery that hardly strikes me as
surprising, but still makes me feel sad and no less amazed by the whole
sordid mess. That story invokes real sympathy though, where the above
just substantiates all of my previous assumptions. Those Sugar Ray guys
are assholes...
key
np: Nurse With Wound "The Penis Fruit Loop"...ummm, tastey.
ML Compton
keyse...@my-deja.com spread enlightenment upon the world with this
comment:
>Steve Albini wrote a good
>piece sometime ago about bands and majors vs indies,
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this. While I have no great love
for major labels, I also have no great love for indie labels. Albini's
article was simplistic and paranoid. I would urge all bands to ignore
what it says. Or at the very least, take what it says with caution.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
"UNKNOWNWORKS" Various unsigned
artists on Astralwerks
JackieBlue
> > that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't
anything
> > like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
> > laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
> Anyone happen to see the Politically Incorrect with said Asshole
Grande
> as a guest?
Nothing in that article, or anywhere else I've seen, convinces me that
the Sugar Ray dude is any more of an asshole than, say, Mark E. Smith,
the members of Underworld, or Lou Barlow (or J. Mascis, depending on who
you listen to).
Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band? They're not really
all THAT terrible to me. As harmless as the Beach Boys' more harmless
material. I can think of much better things to complain about, like the
Limp Bizkit asshole inciting the kids at Woodstock to tear shit down and
practically kill each other. Frankly, I'd much rather have a beer with
the Sugar Ray dude than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
I heard what I'm pretty sure was an amazing new Tricky song, with
Martina singing most or all of the words, in the record store the other
day)
---
...extensive liner notes and make-believe alien languages...
Rev. Jack Godsey.
http://members.tripod.com/spill/index.html
Spiritual counsel and webmaster for Pegasi 51.
http://members.tripod.com/pegasi51/index.html
Marcus Gosling
>
>np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
> I heard what I'm pretty sure was an amazing new Tricky song, with
>Martina singing most or all of the words, in the record store the other
>day)
>
Tricky is releasing a new album, "Juxtapose", on the 16. August - that is
over here in Europe anyway. I don't think Martina sings on the new album,
'cos he used another woman (cannot remember the name) to sing with him at
the concert in Kongsberg (in Norway) some weeks ago - and also I think a
newspaper said he no longer worked with Martina. Beside that it was
a pretty good concert, the new songs seemed promising, they sounded more
like the stuff from the 2. album, which I don't mind since I did find the
3. album too chaotic.
Marcus
Brian MacDonald
>Nothing in that article, or anywhere else I've seen, convinces me that
>the Sugar Ray dude is any more of an asshole than, say, Mark E. Smith,
>the members of Underworld, or Lou Barlow (or J. Mascis, depending on who
>you listen to).
Oh, surely Mark E. Smith, Klaus Dinger, [insert a number of my musical
heroes here] are worse assholes than Mr. McGrath. But again, I
thought the article was meant more as an exercise of reminding the
"common folk" how ridiculous/decadent/sad/pathetic/comical/lame even
a small slab of life in the music industry as a touring band member
can be these days. And the article, whether naive or disingenuous or
not, was extremely entertaining. I didn't see it as much as a
character assassination of Sugar Ray (while it certainly was to some
degree) as it was a "there are millions of stories and bands just like
this across the nation.." type of testimonial.
>Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band? They're not really
>all THAT terrible to me. As harmless as the Beach Boys' more harmless
>material. I can think of much better things to complain about, like the
>Limp Bizkit asshole inciting the kids at Woodstock to tear shit down and
>practically kill each other.
I never had much of a problem with Sugar Ray either. Harmless and
merely a blip on the screen at most. Reading that article though
just reminded me that they are pretty dumb and naive. And frankly,
it *really* describes the mentality of most Newport Beach/Balboa
peninsula residents very clearly. (Having walked around that area the
past few weekends, as it is a very neat place to beach-walk.)
That whole community is one big semen-stained beer commercial.
> Frankly, I'd much rather have a beer with
>the Sugar Ray dude than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
>putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
Um, uh... ok... if you say so.
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> Nothing in that article, or anywhere else I've seen, convinces me that
> the Sugar Ray dude is any more of an asshole than, say, Mark E. Smith,
> the members of Underworld, or Lou Barlow (or J. Mascis, depending on who
> you listen to).
Oh, they're probably more so in most cases, likely because you
want to hope more for them. ;-) That *is* a good point, though.
Arguably I loved the article in large part because I hated the
band, whereas if something came out about a band I liked that
said similar, I'd feel more annoyed. However, I probably wouldn't
be all *that* surprised. I've long since learned to separate
appreciation for a musician's work from appreciation of the
musician him or herself. When both estimation of their music
and their personal qualities dovetail, based on personal experience,
then it's a fine thing -- I'm thinking of both Low and Windy and
Carl here especially, who are fine people and great musicians
both. When a musician's a jerk, oh well -- if the music's great,
there's that, if it isn't, then double eurgh. And thus my
feelings about Sugar Ray, really.
> I can think of much better things to complain about, like the
> Limp Bizkit asshole inciting the kids at Woodstock to tear shit down and
> practically kill each other.
He's another one to be casually peeved with, no doubt. But the
candidates surely are plentiful, and if Sugar Ray had in fact
performed at Woodstock as they were scheduled to, who knows what
he would have said? ;-)
> np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
As another poster said, yup -- middle of August. Here's hoping
this one sticks in the mind better than the last, which had some
points, but still...
Ned
ned wondering what my coworker is up to now at kuci.org
Don Waller
> There are certainly other well-written tales of rock and
> roll scumdom and the true shit of the entertainment cycle
> out there, but this, I venture to you, is one of the best
> I've ever *EVER* read.
Finally got round to reading it myself. I thought these 90s
alterna-types didn't act like that.
I wonder if these guys ever made fun of Kiss or
Guns'N'Roses... and I wonder if the singer realizes he's
every bit the asshole Axl ever was, minus the entertainment
factor...
D
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
ML Compton
'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett <n...@SPAMNOTkuci.org> spread enlightenment
upon the world with this comment:
>JackieBlue wrote:
>>
>> np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
>
>As another poster said, yup -- middle of August. Here's hoping
>this one sticks in the mind better than the last, which had some
>points, but still...
The new album is wonderful. Its his most commercial album to date and
it's much more of a hip-hop afair than in the past. It's also very
short. But it's a best of the year contender.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
LAMB "Fear Of Fours"
ML Compton
JackieBlue <jac...@my-deja.com> spread enlightenment upon the world
with this comment:
>keyse...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> > that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't
>anything
>> > like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
>> > laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
>
>> Anyone happen to see the Politically Incorrect with said Asshole
>> Grande as a guest?
>
>Nothing in that article, or anywhere else I've seen, convinces me that
>the Sugar Ray dude is any more of an asshole than, say, Mark E. Smith,
>the members of Underworld, or Lou Barlow (or J. Mascis, depending on who
>you listen to).
>
>Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band?
Because many of us think they suck. It's that simple.
The difference between the Sugar Ray fool and the others you mention
is that the others have talent. They may be assholes, and I won't
argue that they aren't, but at least they make good music. And in some
cases, they're funny assholes.
JackieBlue
> >Steve Albini wrote a good
> >piece sometime ago about bands and majors vs indies,
>
> I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this. While I have no great love
> for major labels, I also have no great love for indie labels. Albini's
> article was simplistic and paranoid.
The best thing ever written about Steve Albini comes from David Lowery,
in the liner notes to Camper Van Beethoven's -Vampire Can Mating Oven-:
"Originally this song was entitled "Why don't you challenge the
boundaries of rock music by playing harsh furious dissonant guitar noise
music with lyrics exclusively about death and sex and pretend like you
are making some kind of original statement about the relation between
the two and therefore expressing the pain and confusion of modern
society, and then become a rock critic and write about your own band
under a different name but not before you move to New York or LA or
Chicago or some sufficiently urban area and live in a bad part of town
while still receiving checks from your parents who were probably
liberals and didn't let you watch enough violence on TV and so you never
got it out of your system, and then go to law school like everybody
else.""
np:Tricky, "She Makes Me Wanna Die"
JackieBlue
> I've long since learned to separate
> appreciation for a musician's work from appreciation of the
> musician him or herself.
This is a Good Thing and more people need to do this. In fact, I
suggest that people stop caring altogether whether any musician is a
"good guy" or a "bad guy" unless said musician is someone you personally
know. I mean, just why care? The world is full of assholes, and I see
a staggering lack of point in talking about the personal lives of a
bunch of musicians, especially since the AMA Hit Squad is (ostensibly) a
more cultured and distanced group of chaps than those who buy every
issue of the Enquirer for the celebrity dirt.
> When both estimation of their music
> and their personal qualities dovetail, based on personal experience,
> then it's a fine thing -- I'm thinking of both Low and Windy and
> Carl here especially
Never met Windy or Carl, though I'd love to. The bass player in Low is
really cool. I talked to him when they played Knoxville a few months
ago and he struck me as being pretty much just a regular guy, like all
the local musicians I know. I was a little peeved that even though I
yelled "Do You Know How To Waltz" BOTH times they asked if anyone had
any requests they didn't even try and play it or make any jokes about
it, though.
np:Tricky, "Bad Things"
---
...extensive liner notes and make-believe alien languages...
Rev. Jack Godsey.
http://members.tripod.com/spill/index.html
Spiritual counsel and webmaster for Pegasi 51.
http://members.tripod.com/pegasi51/index.html (doesn't anybody every
fucking GO to these pages? I worked hard, goddamn it.)
JackieBlue
> >Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band?
>
> Because many of us think they suck. It's that simple.
No no... I didn't say "why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this
band's MUSIC".
> The difference between the Sugar Ray fool and the others you mention
> is that the others have talent. They may be assholes, and I won't
> argue that they aren't, but at least they make good music.
But what does that "at least" actually MEAN? In the real world sense?
Why would you slag THE PERSONALITY of an asshole that makes "bad" music
and not THE PERSONALITY of an asshole that makes "good" music? (I'm
not saying YOU PERSONALLY, ML, I'm saying "you" in the theoretical
sense.). Why does a musician's (alleged) personality enter into it at
all, good or bad? Many horrible bands are great people; Wayne Coyne
once said that opening for Candlebox was very cool because the band were
actually huge fans of the Lips and nice guys, and had specifically
requested them as openers. Does this mean I shouldn't dis their music,
because AT LEAST they're nice people? Apples and oranges, Bufondo, do
not make a good fruit salad.
np:Labradford, "Recorded and mixed at Sound of Music, Richmond, Va."
---
...extensive liner notes and make-believe alien languages...
Rev. Jack Godsey.
http://members.tripod.com/spill/index.html
Spiritual counsel and webmaster for Pegasi 51.
http://members.tripod.com/pegasi51/index.html
Persi
>Frankly, I'd much rather have a beer with
>the Sugar Ray dude than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
>putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
HA! That's the funniest thing I've read here all week. Thanks for cheering the
rather melancholy Persi up :)
>np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
>I heard what I'm pretty sure was an amazing new Tricky song, with
>Martina singing most or all of the words, in the record store the other
>day)
hmmm....I don't know. Martine is out this time around and in are DJ Muggs
(Cypress Hill) and various other producers and vocalists/rappers. As ML put it,
it's Tricky's most commercial record, but it's still a good Tricky record. I
like it alot, as well. It's his most rap-oriented album since the 'Grassroots'
EP. The beats are still delicious and unnerving as hell, and there's some damn
fine flow going on all over the record. Sounds better than the last record, to
me, which was great but very downbeat and often hard to listen to (not that
Tricky really ever made easy-listening party music). I guess you can call it
Tricky's attempt to make a more commercial dance record that actually would
work well on the floor on a Saturday night, yet still not totally compromising
his need to make weirded-out, stoned, chaotic grooves that grate into your
spine. A very balanced album, indeed. Why it's getting so much flack from fans
is beyond me (critically, it's doing alot better than his last album).
--
On My Stereo: Lithops - Uni Umi it
Persi
>--ML COMPTON--
>Playing while I type:
>LAMB "Fear Of Fours"
Everyone is going on about how great this album is and that it's a very worthy
follow-up to the debut record. What are your thoughts, ML?
I have yet to hear anything from it. Also, how's the new mu-Ziq album? I heard
'The Fear' EP and like it alot. More so than his previous few outtings under
the mu-Ziq name. It sounds more playful and eclectic to me. How does the album
compare?
Persi
>Because many of us think they suck. It's that simple.
>
>The difference between the Sugar Ray fool and the others you mention
>is that the others have talent. They may be assholes, and I won't
>argue that they aren't, but at least they make good music. And in some
>cases, they're funny assholes.
kind of like that Liam Gallagher chap. He's an asshole and flaunts it, but at
least he's a somewhat entertaining fool (unlike, say, Ian Brown, who also said
his band was better than the Beatles, but he actually believed it....wanker,
indeed!).
Persi
>
>Ned wrote:
>
>> There are certainly other well-written tales of rock and
>> roll scumdom and the true shit of the entertainment cycle
>> out there, but this, I venture to you, is one of the best
>> I've ever *EVER* read.
>
>Finally got round to reading it myself. I thought these 90s
>alterna-types didn't act like that.
>
>I wonder if these guys ever made fun of Kiss or
>Guns'N'Roses.
Maybe Gene was an asshole in the early Kiss days, but he used to come into
where I worked (at a frozen yogurt place in 1987) and was the nicest and most
polite person on the planet. He always remembered us my name and alway had a
funny story or two to tell. That and the fact that he was *always* with a new
gorgous woman everytime he came by (which was, at least, three times a week).
Plus, he was a great tipper. An all around good guy in my book.
ML Compton
cow...@earthlink.net (Persi) spread enlightenment upon the world with
this comment:
>In article <379e6d28...@news.prodigy.net>, dan...@prodigy.net says...
>
>>--ML COMPTON--
>>Playing while I type:
>>LAMB "Fear Of Fours"
>
>Everyone is going on about how great this album is and that it's a very worthy
>follow-up to the debut record. What are your thoughts, ML?
I haven't been able to give the album a close listen yet (or the U-ziq
album for that matter), but the few times I've listened to it at work,
and the new single and video, it seems to me to be an absolutely
wonderful album.
>I have yet to hear anything from it. Also, how's the new mu-Ziq album? I heard
>'The Fear' EP and like it alot. More so than his previous few outtings under
>the mu-Ziq name. It sounds more playful and eclectic to me. How does the album
>compare?
Again, on only one listen, I liked it alot. But it will be awhile
until I can make any pointed critique about it.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
TONY ALLEN "Black Voices"
Persi
HA, on a sidenote here, did anyone catch Leno last Tuesday night (or repeated
this morning) when he asked a bunch of 18 year olds some really easy questions?
He asked a few people what an LP was and one answered 'a lo-flying plane' while
the other answered, a 'licensed practitioner'. The same guy thought that 78's
and 45's were just numbers. I almost pissed myself laughing.
It just reminds me of how old I'm getting, even at 28. :)
--
On My Stereo: US Maple - Talker (This is the coolest music I've heard all year.
Kind of like Tom Waits meets early Sonic
Youth on a strange acid trip. Tres damn cool!!)
keyse...@my-deja.com
Wow, then you really are the most obnoxious poster on usenet.
> than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
> putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
>
key
Don Waller
> Anyone happen to see the Politically Incorrect with said
> Asshole Grande as a guest?
Sugar Ray aside, I think that's part of the booker's job at
PI - find a designated 'Asshole Grande' for each show.
Monday's show was cool - dealing w/Woodstock. Evan Seinfeld
from Biohazard was on, and he offered to take Ralph Nader
and some Young Repub type out to the parking lot to kick
their asses...
Evan Seinfeld calling Ralph Nader out. You just don't see
things like that much on TV. Can somebody arrange a
pay-per-view? I'll buy.
keyse...@my-deja.com
dan...@prodigy.net wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:36:41 GMT, a wonderful human being named
> keyse...@my-deja.com spread enlightenment upon the world with this
> comment:
>
> >Steve Albini wrote a good
> >piece sometime ago about bands and majors vs indies,
>
> I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this. While I have no great love
> for major labels, I also have no great love for indie labels. Albini's
> what it says. Or at the very least, take what it says with caution.
>
with a grain of salt. He's the Oliver Stone of postpunk. Even if it's
wildly inaccurate and one sided, it still could serve as an eye-opener
to some. But sure, definitely take caution, etc... Or just ignore
it...hehe.
key
np: earth "teeth of lions rule the divine"
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> Never met Windy or Carl, though I'd love to.
Good folks. Feed them if they visit you, and if you visit their
neck of the woods, go to their record store.
Ned
ned thinking Galaxie 500's "Fourth of July" *is* grand at kuci.org
JackieBlue
> > Frankly, I'd much rather have a beer
> > with
> > the Sugar Ray dude...
> Wow, then you really are the most obnoxious poster on usenet.
Well, I was making a "lesser of two evils" kind of point. I'm sure I
wouldn't like Sugar Ray dude all that much if I knew him, but he'd
probably be able to hook me up with a good party and some good drugs or
something.
> > than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
> > putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
> >
> Now that seemed rather tasteless...yet it made me laugh.
Oh, Jesus. I had no idea thee AMA Hit Squad was so freaking PC. I feel
dirty. I think I need to go see South Park again.
Nobody would have fucking minded if I were gay and said "Trent Reznor"
instead of "Tori Amos". I mean, I love some of Tori's music and if I
met her I'm sure I'd only have the urge to smack her once or twice an
hour. It's just those damn interviews and all the fairy nonsense and...
ugh... don't make me think about it. I was so much more innocent when I
just had a couple of her albums and hadn't heard her talk about them.
np:Boredoms, "Super Are"
---
...extensive liner notes and make-believe alien languages...
Rev. Jack Godsey.
http://members.tripod.com/spill/index.html
Spiritual counsel and webmaster for Pegasi 51.
http://members.tripod.com/pegasi51/index.html
JackieBlue
> > Never met Windy or Carl, though I'd love to.
>
> Good folks. Feed them if they visit you, and if you visit their
> neck of the woods, go to their record store.
Where is it, anyway?
The more I listen to -Depths-, the higher it gets on my Top of the
Decade list.
(Aside: remind me to shoot myself the day they come out with a "Totally
90s!" comp CD featuring hits by Nirvana, Ricky Martin, Limp Bizkit, Ace
of Base, Prodigy, the Toadies, Green Day and Beck.)
(Another aside, though: I really like Ricky Martin a lot. How come
Latin pop music is usually so much better than American? I even like
that whatsisname Iglesias song off the Wild Wild West soundtrack.)
np: Boredoms, "Super Going"
ML Compton
JackieBlue <jac...@my-deja.com> spread enlightenment upon the world
with this comment:
>dan...@prodigy.net wrote:
>
>> >Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band?
>>
>> Because many of us think they suck. It's that simple.
>
>No no... I didn't say "why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this
>band's MUSIC".
The answer's still the same.
Now, this takes some thought, so let's see if I can answer it.
>> The difference between the Sugar Ray fool and the others you mention
>> is that the others have talent. They may be assholes, and I won't
>> argue that they aren't, but at least they make good music.
>
>But what does that "at least" actually MEAN? In the real world sense?
>Why would you slag THE PERSONALITY of an asshole that makes "bad" music
>and not THE PERSONALITY of an asshole that makes "good" music?
Yes, but in different ways. I think Mark E. Smith is one of the
world's greatest assholes, but he makes music I like so I can forgive
him his sins TO A POINT. I once snuck out of a friend's birthday party
in Berlin to go see the Fall play only to arrive and find out the band
weren't playing because Mark E. was mad that the hall wasn't bigger.
Never mind that the show wasn't sold out. He just thought that they
should be more popular and because they weren't, he was going to
deprive the Berlin fans of his music. And my friend was pissed as hell
at me. I will never trust the man again and certainly won't cancel
other plans if a Fall show is announced. But I still love his music
and consider him a genius. I can say the same of Mogwai and their
pathetic attempt at attention in dissing Blur and other bands.
>Why does a musician's (alleged) personality enter into it at
>all, good or bad?
I think that what it comes down to is this. Fair or not, there's
something so very satisfying when you find out that a band who's music
you dislike turns out to be assholes. While when it's a band that you
like, it's sad. It's human nature to want to see those you dislike be
torn down. It may be stupid and petty, but it is human, and I've never
denied being human.
>Many horrible bands are great people; Wayne Coyne
>once said that opening for Candlebox was very cool because the band were
>actually huge fans of the Lips and nice guys, and had specifically
>requested them as openers. Does this mean I shouldn't dis their music,
>because AT LEAST they're nice people?
Well, this is a whole different matter than what we're discussing
above. And it's something I know well. There's a reason you don't see
me dissing a band like the Goo Goo Dolls here and it's the same reason
that the Lips describe above. There are many bands and musicians whose
music I don't like that I've dealt with that turned out to be good
people. Goo Goo Dolls, Peter Murphy, Cindy Lauper, Guadelcanal Diary,
the list goes on and on. I may say that I don't like their music, but
I won't badmouth these people. And I usually won't badmouth anyone
unless I know they're a jerk. But when it comes to people like Natalie
Merchant or Mark Mulchahey or Adam Ant or Ultravox or Sugar Ray, I'm
not afraid to call these people assholes because that's what they are.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so. Sugar Ray are getting what
they deserve. They aren't nice people and they aren't a good band. And
I'll be gald when they fade away and nobody remembers them, which is
exactly what is going to happen to them.
>Apples and oranges, Bufondo, do not make a good fruit salad.
On the contrary, they do. Especially with a little mayonnaise, some
walnuts and a few of those little marshmellows.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
AUSGANG "Electric-Arc"
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> But when it comes to people like Natalie
> Merchant or Mark Mulchahey or Adam Ant or Ultravox or Sugar Ray, I'm
> not afraid to call these people assholes because that's what they are.
Okay, so call me one who likes to hear the dirt -- besides Sugar
Ray, what's the word on the rest of these folks' sins? I've
heard the bit from Rollins about how Ultravox stopped in at
Black Flag's dressing room and proclaimed them 'dross,' but
some would no doubt argue that Hank deserved no less.
> On the contrary, they do. Especially with a little mayonnaise, some
> walnuts and a few of those little marshmellows.
Don't forget the cinnamon. Num.
And I have to agree with ML -- having a good reason to hate someone
whose music you already despise is so very satisfying.
Ned
ned listening to Hypnolovewheel -- remember them? -- at kuci.org
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> Where is it, anyway?
I want to say Dearborn, MI but that's where the store they used to
work at, Desirable Discs, is -- can't recall if theirs is there
as well. I believe Nicole knows, though!
> The more I listen to -Depths-, the higher it gets on my Top of the
> Decade list.
Truly it is a Dream of Love, or somesuch. One of those records
I can only ever listen to as a piece, straight through from
beginning to end -- there's no point in just listening to one
song! And yet another reason why I think Kranky has the biggest
quality/release ratio of the decade in terms of American labels,
at least. I still have yet to find a CD they've put out that
I *haven't* loved.
> (Aside: remind me to shoot myself the day they come out with a "Totally
> 90s!" comp CD featuring hits by Nirvana, Ricky Martin, Limp Bizkit, Ace
> of Base, Prodigy, the Toadies, Green Day and Beck.)
Haven't they already? Give it time!
> (Another aside, though: I really like Ricky Martin a lot. How come
> Latin pop music is usually so much better than American?
My friend Karen's sister would agree with you on that point, though
she thinks that the new album is mere crossover hoo-hah, and now
adores Ozomatli instead. From where I sit, a definite step up!
Ned
ned loving that shoegazery groove of Sianspheric at kuci.org
Don Waller
> As for the others, Natalie merchant is an A#1 bitch and
> just about anyone who has dealt with her claims the same.
> My incident was a tantrum she threw years ago in Italy
> when she found out she was lower on the bill than TWR.
In '91, my band was recording an album at Bearsville
studios, and we came into town just as R.E.M. was wrapping
up 'Monster' - and 10,000 Maniacs was working in the
rehearsal barn. We had just started cutting basic tracks,
and I was sitting in the kitchen/game room smoking a
cigarette when Natalie walked in and started berating me for
smoking in the studio. I reminded her (probably a whole lot
more politley than she deserved) that my band was paying for
the studio and hers wasn't, and finished my cigarette.
Wilson Zorn
I think he's dried up these days). I met him after a show many years ago.
Besides, he's cool.
(Sure, just defending someone I like BUT I know he's acted an asshole plenty
of times, don't flame me, not pretending to really know the guy or anything,
but he did seem nice)
JackieBlue <jac...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7njoj3$oso$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> keyse...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > > that I think most of us can rest easy knowing that we aren't
> anything
> > > like El Asshole Grande who sings for said band -- there's lots to
> > > laugh at. Even tragedy can provoke the absurd, surely.
>
> > Anyone happen to see the Politically Incorrect with said Asshole
> Grande
> > as a guest?
>
> Nothing in that article, or anywhere else I've seen, convinces me that
> the Sugar Ray dude is any more of an asshole than, say, Mark E. Smith,
> the members of Underworld, or Lou Barlow (or J. Mascis, depending on who
> you listen to).
>
> Why is everyone so hell-bent on dissing this band? They're not really
> all THAT terrible to me. As harmless as the Beach Boys' more harmless
> material. I can think of much better things to complain about, like the
> Limp Bizkit asshole inciting the kids at Woodstock to tear shit down and
> practically kill each other. Frankly, I'd much rather have a beer with
> the Sugar Ray dude than, say, Tori Amos (unless I had any chance of
> putting masking tape over her mouth and fucking her).
>
>
> np:Nearly God, "I Sing For You" (is there a new Tricky album coming out?
> I heard what I'm pretty sure was an amazing new Tricky song, with
> Martina singing most or all of the words, in the record store the other
> day)
>
ML Compton
'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett <n...@SPAMNOTkuci.org> spread enlightenment
upon the world with this comment:
>ML Compton wrote:
>>
>> But when it comes to people like Natalie
>> Merchant or Mark Mulchahey or Adam Ant or Ultravox or Sugar Ray, I'm
>> not afraid to call these people assholes because that's what they are.
>
>Okay, so call me one who likes to hear the dirt -- besides Sugar
>Ray, what's the word on the rest of these folks' sins? I've
>heard the bit from Rollins about how Ultravox stopped in at
>Black Flag's dressing room and proclaimed them 'dross,' but
>some would no doubt argue that Hank deserved no less.
Well, Henry I have mixed feelings about. I used to worked with him for
a short time and he was friendly and easy to get along with then. Then
I ran into him in Belgium and he was an asshole. Then a year or so
ago, I ran into him again here and he was friendly again. So, what can
I say? He did screw over a friend of mine badly over producer credits
and others have told me that he just takes himself too seriously. I'll
reserve comment except to say that I think his music is crap and
always has thought that, even when he was in Black Flag.
As for the others, Natalie merchant is an A#1 bitch and just about
anyone who has dealt with her claims the same. My incident was a
tantrum she threw years ago in Italy when she found out she was lower
on the bill than TWR. Several hours later I saw her locking lips with
Billy Bragg and now I can never take him seriously again.
Mulchahey is another of those that just about any band that has worked
with him will back up. I've had a number of incidences with him over
the years, the last being another tantrum over opening for TWR in
Baltimore. In that case, the promoter told him and his band to take a
hike. And his luke-warm REM crap leaves me cold anyways. He also ran a
club in New Haven, Conn. thatw as one of the worst dumps I've ever had
the misfortune of working at, and I had to work it three times. You
would think a touring musician would have a club that knew how to
treat bands right.
I worked the Adam Ant show with Three O'Clock where had his crew lock
us in our dressing room during his set because he didn't want us to
see him walking the corridors to and from the stage. Peter Murphy was
polite enough to personally ask us (TWR) to stay out of the corridors
just before and after his set and explained that he didn't want people
in the way. I accepted that, but not being locked in.
And we (the Furys) showed up in Riverside to do an Ultravox show to be
told that they wouldn't move any of their equipment from the stage,
meaning we had to set up on the dance floor. After we did and did our
soundcheck, they decided that they didn't want an opening band anyways
and had us thrown out. This was the last tour John Foxx did with them
and I felt pretty bad for him. He had already quit the band but had to
do the tour due to contractual reasons, and the other band members
were just treating him like shit. The Psychedelic Furs tried to pull
this same shit on TWR years later and after one of the guitarist
almost fell off the stage during soundcheck due to lack of stage
space, I mentioned to the Furs that it would sure be a pity if said
guitarist happened to fall into their keyboards and knock them over.
The keyboards were moved and we got along swell the rest of the
evening.
Probably the band I hated more than anyone was They Might Be Giants,
who were just assholes about everything.
Now, this stuff might sound small, but when you're a touring band it
can make your evening when a headlining band (or an opening band for
that matter) is friendly and cooperable. A simple thing like a
headliner moving their drum kit can make it a great show for you. I've
dealt with hundreds of bands, both signed and unsigned, indie and
major, popular and unknown. Fortunately, most of them have been
pleasant and good to deal with even if most of the music is
intolerable.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
ROY WOOD'S WIZZARD "Wizzard Brew"
keyse...@my-deja.com
>
> ned listening to Hypnolovewheel -- remember them? -- at kuci.org
>
key
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> Sure, [Hypnolovewheel] were assholes...;-)
Naughty boy. That 1992 album of theirs is quite underrated --
_Angel Food_, the name is, I think?
Ned
ned appearing briefly before doing a meeting at kuci.org
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> Several hours later I saw her locking lips with
> Billy Bragg and now I can never take him seriously again.
I really have to wonder in that case who was slumming with who.
Thanks for the rundown of weird!
Ned
ned thinking that Adam Ant was being rather odd at kuci.org
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> ...I reminded her (probably a whole lot
> more politley than she deserved) that my band was paying for
> the studio and hers wasn't, and finished my cigarette.
Did she storm out angrily or flounce out distractedly?
Ned
ned floating along -- what else? -- at kuci.org
Don Waller
> Did she storm out angrily or flounce out distractedly?
Actually, she sighed exasperatedly and exited huffily.
On the other hand, the Indigo Girls had no problem with the
smoke (they were in studio 'B' at the time), and I got to
meet Budgie, besides... who also didn't mind smoke.
To quote Cube, 'I gotta say it was a good day.'
Ned 'Prissy Anglophile' Raggett
>
> On the other hand, the Indigo Girls had no problem with the
> smoke (they were in studio 'B' at the time), and I got to
> meet Budgie, besides... who also didn't mind smoke.
The band or the drummer? ;-)
Ned
ned escaped from that meeting, huzzah, at kuci.org
ML Compton
"Wilson Zorn" <wilso...@worldnet.att.net> spread enlightenment upon
the world with this comment:
>Hey, Mark E. Smith is a pretty nice guy, very shy when he's not drunk (which
>I think he's dried up these days). I met him after a show many years ago.
>Besides, he's cool.
Can a nice guy still be an asshole? Sure he can. Just look at me!
Anyways, I've met Mark E. several times. The first time (during their
first ever USA tour) he was somewhat detatched and his girlfriend, who
was also his manager, was the nicer of the two, going as far as to
rescue my food-poisoned boyfriend from a couple of muggers while I was
elsewhere watching a band. The second time, several years later after
Brix had joined the band, he was a very nice and articulate person. As
for the current version, it just shows what too much alcohol can do to
someone. But he has no one to blame but himself.
--ML COMPTON--
Playing while I type:
The 11PM news
Don Waller
>> On the other hand, the Indigo Girls had no problem with
>> the smoke (they were in studio 'B' at the time), and I
>> got to meet Budgie, besides... who also didn't mind
>> smoke.
> The band or the drummer? ;-)
The drummer, and a humongous road case he brought that you
could have put a couple of cars into.
Good thing it was the drummer - I don't think the band,
myself, and the humongous road case could have fit into the
hallway we were in.
I just came to the frightening realization that this thread
has gotten around to counting rock stars that do and don't
mind cigarette smoke.
That counts big with me, being an unrepentant smoker and
all.