Lo-fi: Pavement vs. Sebadoh
Rick Evans
How many people out there agree that the best music of the 90's is
largely coming from Pavement and Sebadoh? The grunge thing was cool
for awhile, but all the while Pavement and Sebadoh have been leading this
more alternative thing. For convienence "lo-fi" is the label of choice
for Sebadoh, Pavement, Beck, Grifters, Jack Logan, Archers of Loaf,
Guided By Voices, Jon SPencer, Folk Implosion, Silkworm, Chavez, etc.
However, there
is a common thread/sound running through this type of music. and Sebadoh
has got to be the best (tied with Pavement).
Pavement's "Slanted/Enchanted" and Sebadoh's "Bakesale" are as great
as any other classic put out this decade. And a probable successor
to grunge/scrunge as far as the "in" sound that we hear more on
alt.radio. (I know Pavement already had a hit, but hopefully the best
is yet to come)
David Hose
I will agree that Pavement and Sebadoh are two very cool bands. I don't
think I put one on top of the other, although lately I've been listening
to a lot of Sebadoh.
Pavement have more of that brainy self-protective irony about them.
They seem almost completely entrenched in their DIY indie ethos. Their
old-school lo-fi style makes their songs so attractive and "Slanted and
Enchanted" is without doubt one of the very special albums in my
collection.
Sebadoh seem to be more straight rock although they possess the
self-absorption characteristic of collegiate rock. Although their earlier
albums lack consistency, Lou Barlow's contributions always managed to lift
the albums to great heights. I will admit that "Bakesale" is a great
album although I think Lou Barlow as an individual does his best work on
"Bubble and Scrape." I think the sheer honesty of the music is what
attracts me so much to this band. They create a very warm yet continuous
feel in their music and with Jason's songwriting getting better, the
continuity of the albums will be stronger. My all time fav tune remains
'Brand New Love.'
Sebadoh and Pavement are, in my opinion, the measuring stick to which
all lo-fi bands can be measured.
Jun.
Inspector Fat Ass
It already happened a few years ago. Or do you mean arena sell-out big?
Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote in article
<519mr2$i...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>...
Brian MacDonald
David Hose <da...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Sebadoh and Pavement are, in my opinion, the measuring stick to which
>all lo-fi bands can be measured.
>
>Jun.
Screw that. Destroy All Monsters all the way! They paved
the way for "lo-fisters" in the mid 70s!... ;-)
==================================================================
Brian MacDonald <bri...@kuci.uci.edu>, an internet/www guy for
KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County
"What did the doctor say?.... Neil, GO AHEAD AND SMOKE!"
For info on joining listservs for NEGATIVLAND, UNWOUND, POLVO,
ROCKET FROM THE CRYPT/DRIVE LIKE JEHU, and "KRAUTROCK": e-mail me
==================================================================
Nathalie Claeys
Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote:
>How many people out there agree that the best music of the 90's is
>largely coming from Pavement and Sebadoh? The grunge thing was cool
>for awhile, but all the while Pavement and Sebadoh have been leading this
>more alternative thing. For convienence "lo-fi" is the label of choice
>for Sebadoh, Pavement, Beck, Grifters, Jack Logan, Archers of Loaf,
>Guided By Voices, Jon SPencer, Folk Implosion, Silkworm, Chavez, etc.
>However, there
>is a common thread/sound running through this type of music. and Sebadoh
>has got to be the best (tied with Pavement).
After being obsessed with the music on the Kids Movie Soundtrack, I went and bought the
Folk Implosion-cd expecting the same thing. Major disappointment. I wasn't used to this
natural and chaotic way of playing music. Nothing like the clean polished Alanis stuff. So
did I _not_ buy Sebadoh's Harmacy record? Hell no, fool that I was I did buy it. And I
absolutely loved it. I am getting more and more hooked on Lo-Fi.
I was never really into the grunge thing BTW. I did like some stuff but I prefer Lo-Fi any
time of the day.
Love Varnaline BTW as well. And although they aren't very popular in the US, I love
Sparklehorse as well. They deserve more. I mean waking up with Rainmaker just makes my day
even if it rains.
I just hope Lo-Fi will live longer than grunge. Then again quality never dies, now does it?
Nathalie
Furious Green Thoughts
Absolutely agree about Sebadoh and Pavement but lo-fi is also an
excuse for a lot of no talent idiots who now have a good excuse for
being lame. Precise production usually wrings the life out of music
but the other extreme is good if you think that listening to a garbage
disposer or vacuum cleaner or lawn-mower are also good music.
Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote:
>How many people out there agree that the best music of the 90's is
>largely coming from Pavement and Sebadoh? The grunge thing was cool
>for awhile, but all the while Pavement and Sebadoh have been leading this
>more alternative thing. For convienence "lo-fi" is the label of choice
>for Sebadoh, Pavement, Beck, Grifters, Jack Logan, Archers of Loaf,
>Guided By Voices, Jon SPencer, Folk Implosion, Silkworm, Chavez, etc.
>However, there
>is a common thread/sound running through this type of music. and Sebadoh
>has got to be the best (tied with Pavement).
>Pavement's "Slanted/Enchanted" and Sebadoh's "Bakesale" are as great
>as any other classic put out this decade. And a probable successor
>to grunge/scrunge as far as the "in" sound that we hear more on
>alt.radio. (I know Pavement already had a hit, but hopefully the best
>is yet to come)
Jason Gross- fur...@furious.com
Furious Green Thoughts (politics) http://www.furious.com
Perfect Sound Forever (music) http://www.furious.com/perfect
Assorted Realities (fiction) http://www.furious.com/assorted
Mike Rickman
In article <519mr2$i...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> writes:
> How many people out there agree that the best music of the 90's is
> largely coming from Pavement and Sebadoh? The grunge thing was cool
> for awhile, but all the while Pavement and Sebadoh have been leading this
> more alternative thing. For convienence "lo-fi" is the label of choice
> for Sebadoh, Pavement, Beck, Grifters, Jack Logan, Archers of Loaf,
> Guided By Voices, Jon SPencer, Folk Implosion, Silkworm, Chavez, etc.
> However, there
> is a common thread/sound running through this type of music. and Sebadoh
> has got to be the best (tied with Pavement).
>
> Pavement's "Slanted/Enchanted" and Sebadoh's "Bakesale" are as great
> as any other classic put out this decade. And a probable successor
> to grunge/scrunge as far as the "in" sound that we hear more on
> alt.radio. (I know Pavement already had a hit, but hopefully the best
> is yet to come)
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
You have brilliant taste. The creativity coming out of these bands is so refreshing in this age of music-by-numbers bands like Oasis and Stone Temple Pilots. Although they are not nessesarily lo-fi, I would add to your list other greats Superchunk, Pond and the Flaming Lips
--
Miko
"Iron this on when you get home" -Superchunk
Matthew Ford
If you would like to check out some cool lo-fi stuff, I would strongly
suggest anything by Canada's Eric's Trip. (or any of the side projects.)
They are on Sub Pop and are pretty cool. However I do agree that Pavement
and Sebadoh are the best of this genre. Eric's Trip is no more by the way
but have released some really dope material.
Matt
Rick Evans
In article <51p4i8$j...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> Matthew Ford,
mwr...@chat.carleton.ca writes:
> You have brilliant taste.
Likewise, and same to the guy who said, "Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes," Its
great to know their are others in the know. I'm sure you're IQ is
at least 150 ;-)
> The creativity coming out of these bands is so
>refreshing in this age of music-by-numbers bands like Oasis and Stone
Temple
>Pilots. Although they are not nessesarily lo-fi, I would add to your
list
>other greats Superchunk, Pond and the Flaming Lips
I swear I simply forgot to list Superchunk and the Lips. I enjoy both
bands and agree that they fit well into this discussion. I especially
enjoy Superchunk, and I think their last album is their best (when
is a new one due). There's a band that is indie idealistic, they
actually quit Matador (went back to their own Merge) after it
signed a deal with Atlantic. They're right up there with Fugazi and the
Archers for being "NO SELL OUT!!!"
Now Pond, I've never heard. Have to check them out, thanks for the
tip.
I also forgot to mention that Yo La Tengo, kinda fits into this lo-fi
thing in an uppercrust/New York sort of way. Electr-O-Pura was definately
in the top 10 of the best albums of 1995. I also forgot to mention
Daniel Johnson; the Syd Barrett of lo-fi! Not great, but his Casper songs
on the Kids soundtrack are a hoot, and his last album "Fun" was pretty
good (produced by one of the Butthole Surfers).
justin williams
On Mon, 16 Sep 1996, Mike Rickman wrote:
> In article <519mr2$i...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> writes:
> > How many people out there agree that the best music of the 90's is
> > largely coming from Pavement and Sebadoh? The grunge thing was cool
> > for awhile, but all the while Pavement and Sebadoh have been leading this
> > more alternative thing. For convienence "lo-fi" is the label of choice
> > for Sebadoh, Pavement, Beck, Grifters, Jack Logan, Archers of Loaf,
> > Guided By Voices, Jon SPencer, Folk Implosion, Silkworm, Chavez, etc.
> > However, there
> > is a common thread/sound running through this type of music. and Sebadoh
> > has got to be the best (tied with Pavement).
> >
> > Pavement's "Slanted/Enchanted" and Sebadoh's "Bakesale" are as great
> > as any other classic put out this decade. And a probable successor
> > to grunge/scrunge as far as the "in" sound that we hear more on
> > alt.radio. (I know Pavement already had a hit, but hopefully the best
> > is yet to come)
>
> yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
>
> You have brilliant taste. The creativity coming out of these bands is so refreshing in this age of music-by-numbers bands like Oasis and Stone Temple Pilots. Although they are not nessesarily lo-fi, I would add to your list other greats Superchunk, Pond and the Flaming Lips
>
> --
> Miko
> "Iron this on when you get home" -Superchunk
>
>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
my bloody valentine, now defunct, must be on the list.
Rick Evans
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.960920...@umbc8.umbc.edu>
justin williams, jwi...@umbc8.umbc.edu writes:
>my bloody valentine, now defunct, must be on the list.
>
I agree my bloody valentine is one great band. Loveless is one of the
most influential albums of the 90's, and beautiful to listen to too!
You can hear their influence in Sugar, Curve, Garbage, Smashing P's!
Great band. But including them in the lo-fi category is a stretch!
They're production nuts, that's why we've been waiting 6 damn years
for a follow-up. Not defunct, just read an interview, ep out in November
new album sometime in 1997!!!
The only connection I could make between My Bloody V and Lo-fi, would
be that SOnic Youth had a huge impact on bands like Pavement,
Sebadoh, and Yo La Tengo! And My Bloody V learned a few tricks
from SOnic Youth, (their noise is candy apple/layered Sonic Youth)
David Hose
This guy is absolutely right. My Bloody Valentine do sort of produce
their albums to fuck and back (although they are incredibly excellent
anyway).
For something a little more unintentional but still with a clear
"shoegazer/dreampop" influence and definite lo-fi overtones, try Velocity
Girl's first full-length LP "Copacetic." Although admittedly they evolved
into something rather straight female pop, this album is the incarnation
of shoegazer done lo-fi style; there is also a clear Velvet Underground
influence here. Trust me, check it out.
Jun.
Persinthia Lawdro
>my bloody valentine, now defunct, must be on the list.
Not defunct...just taken a 4 year and counting long ass time working on the
new album (if you remember it was about a 4 year lapse between 'Isn't
Anything' and 'Loveless'). If you remember they had 3 new songs earlier this
year on compilations and a new EP is expected (we can only hope) in December.
Kevin Sheilds has been supposedly listening to alot of Jungle and Ambient
music (the latter of which really influenced their songs on the 'Offbeat'
compilation).
Supposedly Belinda has left the band, though.
Persinthia Lawdro
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.960920...@umbc8.umbc.edu>,
jwi...@umbc8.umbc.edu says...
>> > Pavement's "Slanted/Enchanted" and Sebadoh's "Bakesale" are as great
>> > as any other classic put out this decade. And a probable successor
>> > to grunge/scrunge as far as the "in" sound that we hear more on
>> > alt.radio. (I know Pavement already had a hit, but hopefully the best
>> > is yet to come)
Hey for a great low-fi sounding band check out Varnaline. Their album 'Man of
Sin' is one of the best of the year.
jutson
>
You wanna hear real LO-FI, listen to "Half Japanese" the albums
"charmed life"or "The band that would be king"
Or listen to the King of LO-FI ( so introduced by Chris Knox of the Tall
Dwarfs) "JAD FAIR"
>
> >
>
>
Brian MacDonald
I'll say it again... Destroy All Monsters did it all in the mid to
late 70's. Completely underrated and forgotten, sadly enough.
Jad Fair thanked' em (and one of the only folks to thank' em)
on the grand Half Japanese comp which just came out.
Mike Kelly, who was in the group, later would take up other artistic
challenges... such as the album art for Sonic Youth's "Dirty"
justin williams
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, David Hose wrote:
>
>
>
> On 20 Sep 1996, Rick Evans wrote:
>
> > In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.960920...@umbc8.umbc.edu>
> > justin williams, jwi...@umbc8.umbc.edu writes:
> > >my bloody valentine, now defunct, must be on the list.
> > >
> >
> > I agree my bloody valentine is one great band. Loveless is one of the
> > most influential albums of the 90's, and beautiful to listen to too!
> > You can hear their influence in Sugar, Curve, Garbage, Smashing P's!
> > Great band. But including them in the lo-fi category is a stretch!
> > They're production nuts, that's why we've been waiting 6 damn years
> > for a follow-up. Not defunct, just read an interview, ep out in November
> > new album sometime in 1997!!!
> >
> > The only connection I could make between My Bloody V and Lo-fi, would
> > be that SOnic Youth had a huge impact on bands like Pavement,
> > Sebadoh, and Yo La Tengo! And My Bloody V learned a few tricks
> > from SOnic Youth, (their noise is candy apple/layered Sonic Youth)
> >
> >
> This guy is absolutely right. My Bloody Valentine do sort of produce
> their albums to fuck and back (although they are incredibly excellent
> anyway).
>
> For something a little more unintentional but still with a clear
> "shoegazer/dreampop" influence and definite lo-fi overtones, try Velocity
> Girl's first full-length LP "Copacetic." Although admittedly they evolved
> into something rather straight female pop, this album is the incarnation
> of shoegazer done lo-fi style; there is also a clear Velvet Underground
> influence here. Trust me, check it out.
>
> Jun.
>
>
>
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Great points. Im sorry, i had Loveless on the brain friday. I was also
misinformed as to the status of the band. May I try again? This time I
will cite all the albums and e.p.'s of Guided By Voices until their
latest(?) Under The Bushes Under The Stars where the production has been
tightened up; not at all to any loss.
justin williams
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
How about Jad Phair and Daniel Johnston:
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Watts
Rick Evans
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.960923...@umbc10.umbc.edu>
justin williams, jwi...@gl.umbc.edu writes:
>> For something a little more unintentional but still with a clear
>> "shoegazer/dreampop" influence and definite lo-fi overtones, try
Velocity
>> Girl's first full-length LP "Copacetic." Although admittedly they
evolved
>> into something rather straight female pop, this album is the
incarnation
>> of shoegazer done lo-fi style; there is also a clear Velvet Underground
>> influence here. Trust me, check it out.
>>
Now that is a description that intrigues me!! The closest thing that
I have that kinda meets that description would be Yo La Tengo.
Thanks for the tip. And thanks to everyone who's been posting to
Lo-fi: Pavement vs. Sebadoh; I've got some great additions to my
already fairly vast lo-fi collection! Already from this discussion (that
I didn't have before), notably; Sparklehorse and Pond.
Vincent Whitacre
There have been some decent bands mentioned so far, but if you want lo-fi,
check out any Billy Childish band. Or the Makers. Or the twisted, inbred
Mummies/Fingers/Supercharger/Rip Offs mess.
whitacre
--
Finger me weekly for a special secret surprise!
Rick Evans
In article <52cmbn$6...@scooby.beloit.edu> Vincent Whitacre,
whit...@stu.beloit.edu writes:
>check out any Billy Childish band. Or the Makers. Or the twisted,
inbred
>Mummies/Fingers/Supercharger/Rip Offs mess.
Wow, that is obscure stuff! Never heard of any of them!!
Tesla69
LoFi so dead, who could imagine that a technique used out of poverty and
desperation would become "genrefied"...but then, children paid $100 for
preripped jeans at the mall..I've been a big fan of Barlow for a long
time, since Dinosaur(no Jr), but Harmacy is boring, if it wasn't for
Jason's songs that actually rock I'd totally curse it...wait for the next
album when Lou brings in the black gospel choir for back up, (i'm
referring to the orchestral parts cryptically)..PAvement have long left
the lofi thang as they can afford a real studio now(Like Sebadozer)...but
why they feel the need to do Cut your Hair at every live show, a very
annoying creation I think,,,but then, I'm not in high school anymore...You
can sure find lofi if you want, but anyone who brands themselves as such
is obviously unclear on the concept..shit, SUckdog recorded both her
albums on a 4-track, but who refers to her as "lofi"...but my personal
bent lately has been away from structured music, its all so disposable and
often these days I find I want to discard it by the first, cliched,
theme-weary verse....the kiss od death is Seb and FI are listed on the
local "alt"(read: corporate payola sponsered) radio station's playlist,
right up there with Garbage, Dave MAtthews, 311, ad nauseum...
Jim Hildreth
Kenneth Brutus Higney
On 26 Sep 1996 23:18:59 GMT, Rick Evans
<rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote:
You want lo-fi? How about King Oliver and early Louis Armstrong.
Not exactly high fidelity reference material there.
But seriously:
Within (some of y'alls) lifetime there's Vulcan, Intersystems, the
estimable Hasil Adkins, Camper Van Beethoven's first LP, This Kind of
Punishment, Spoonin' Gee, Jandek, Alistair Galbraith, Lucia Pamela,
Pops Moretti, and half a zillion first and second wave punk bands,
and every other Joe/Jane Blow who eschewed expensive studios and took
the recording process into their own hands.
Then again there's bands like Blue Cheer that used real studios but
played so sloppy and loud that the end result was sludge anyway.
Pavement vs. Sebadoh? What year is this? Those clowns haven't
released a lo-fi recording in years. And I say clowns with all due
respect. Especially since I'm having Bob Fay's love child *blush*.
Ken'th "Anaconda" Higster
Mike Rickman
> Pavement vs. Sebadoh? What year is this? Those clowns haven't
> released a lo-fi recording in years. And I say clowns with all due
> respect. Especially since I'm having Bob Fay's love child *blush*.
>
> Ken'th "Anaconda" Higster
>
>
I agree that Pavement has definitely left the lo-fi building and Sebadoh is questionable, but that doesn't change that fact that they originated as great bands in the lo-fi style, and should be respected for that. I still love Pavement, although not as much, and their new stuff. Just because a band evolves doesn't mean it get's worse.
JC. Caird
Some of the best Lo-Fi stuff is currently coming out of Scotland.
Urusei Yatsura
The Delgadoes
Arab Strap
Mogwai
Tiger
There are many others, and there is a homepage where you can check most
of these out....
http://www.64slicesamericancheese.com/
Its the Che records homepage, and it has all the Che bands on it, be
they Scottish, or be they from anywhere else. Some of these bands kick
ass over Pavement and Sebadoh.
PS. Built to Spill kick ass over everyone anyway.
--
JC.
http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~mmc96dn/
Deep Black Background
Steve Lewandowski
In article <Pine.SGI.3.95.960923...@umbc10.umbc.edu>,
justin williams <jwi...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>How about Jad Phair and Daniel Johnston:
>10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Watts
Yeah, whoever's the drummer on this is incredible. :)
steve
--
"My dung is presto, my dung is a bad bad dog."
-Shorty "Presto"
Steve Lewandowski
In article <52f314$i...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>,
Rick Evans <rev...@cello.gina.calstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <52cmbn$6...@scooby.beloit.edu> Vincent Whitacre,
>whit...@stu.beloit.edu writes:
>>check out any Billy Childish band. Or the Makers. Or the twisted,
>inbred
>>Mummies/Fingers/Supercharger/Rip Offs mess.
>
>
>Wow, that is obscure stuff! Never heard of any of them!!
Well, check out some thee headcoates. Take a risk.