"Enya" vocal sound.
MilkMan
Can anyone tell me how that Enya vocal sound is done ??? That rich, lush,
synthy "Enya" vocal sound.
If you know how this is done.....please email me at: mil...@earthling.net
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Splonedog
In article <milkman-ya0234800...@news.wwonline.com>,
mil...@earthling.net (MilkMan) writes:
>Can anyone tell me how that Enya vocal sound is done ??? That rich,
>lush,
synthy "Enya" vocal sound.
If you know how this is done.....please
>email me at: mil...@earthling.net
--
first, find a singer with a voice as good as enya. this is not a small matter
as a big part of the enya vocal sound is the vocalist. second, put your
vocalist under a $6,000 microphone, and a $6,000 mic pre, and at least a $2,000
compressor. then add $4,000 of reverb. lots of it, but with a very light
ratio. bake to taste and enjoy.
Splonedog Studios
http://w3.nai.net/~splone
THINMANJR
In addition to the $18,000 mentioned by Splonedog Studios, figure another
$20,000 in other processing. I believe that that is how one gets that
"etherial" sound. I personally dislike the popularity of her voice to those
who know nothing about the Processing that goes on. I saw her perform "live"
on Rosie O'Donnell's show and heard her speaking voice. Pretty, but the
equipment and engieneers have more to do with her vocals than her voice alone.
This, of course, IMHO. I believe that a True voice can be captured without
multiple-thousand of dollars of "Equipment" as opposed to what Ms. Enya releys
on.
Darin Carr
I don't think Enya thinks she is a straight vocalist, but more of a
"vocal instrumentalist", using her voice not to send messages, but to
play a melody. The processing just helps to evoke her feeling on what
the song should be. If you listen to Cocteau Twins, you'll hear that
Elisabeth Fraser uses her voice as an instrument as well, and there are
similarities between the two.
Darin Carr
Scott DiNitto
I know I am in the wrong business if I can sell a compresser that
costs $200 in parts for $2000. Same with the pre-amp...
SD
>
>Splonedog Studios
>http://w3.nai.net/~splone
Andy Moore
Actually Enya uses a lot (and I mean a LOT) of overdubs to get her
vocals to sound like that. She builds up *layers* of vocals (eight,
ten, twelve, or more). Yeah, I imagine her producers/engineers use
excellent/expensive equipment and processing, but the real key is the
overdubbing. And I think Darin is right, she wouldn't claim to be a
traditional singer. She also writes a lot of her own songs and plays a
lot of her own keyboards...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Moore atm...@concentric.net http://www.concentric.net/~atmoore
Jon Best
Well, just for starters, the transformers in a Neve 1272 are $1200 by
themselves....
Jon Best
Recording Guy
FALSTAFF
Eleven Shadows
Andy Moore wrote:
>
> Actually Enya uses a lot (and I mean a LOT) of overdubs to get her
> vocals to sound like that. She builds up *layers* of vocals (eight,
> ten, twelve, or more). Yeah, I imagine her producers/engineers use
> excellent/expensive equipment and processing, but the real key is the
> overdubbing.
For one of her songs, her engineer claims to have performed over 500
(yes, five hundred -- you read that right) overdubs on her voice. On
other songs, she regularly employs wel over a hundred. In my music, I
often will comp over 30 vocals together to create a lush choir-like
sound.
--
Ken/Eleven Shadows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Eleven Shadows * ES songs on Real Audio * Music Reviews
* Travels-India * Tibet * Real Audio Radio Shows * More...
http://www.theeleventhhour.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe Schottman
Scott DiNitto <sdin...@kronos.com> wrote:
> I know I am in the wrong business if I can sell a compresser that
> costs $200 in parts for $2000. Same with the pre-amp...
And as soon as you start hand wiring Neve quality transformers, I'd be happy
to buy them and the rest of the $200 of parts from you and make some 1073s.
Until then, listen quitely and learn what goes into quality products. Beyond
the fact that the top makers use some of the best (or worst, but best sounding
components out there, there is this pesky little thing called R&D. A lexicon
might be a few dollars worth of electronics, but the algorythms used are what
makes them so valuable. And if you think you can design a Neve, Avalon, or
API quality mic pre that can be made for $200, I'll start you a company
myself. Keep in mind, I'll want to be able to scope it up to say, 60Khz or so
without distortion or non-linearity.
Splonedog
In article <19971215155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, splo...@aol.com
(Splonedog) writes:
>
>Can anyone tell me how that Enya vocal sound is done ??? That
>rich,
>lush,
synthy "Enya" vocal sound.
OK, now that I'm done being silly about how much it costs to be enya, here's
how you can do it on the cheep. get yourself a midiverb II for about $100
used. check out setting "45 - bloom". perhaps double track your vox and add
tons of bloom. you'll be pleasantly suprised. bloom is an alesis patented
setting that involves reverse and reverb that will sustain and smear a sound
into next tuesday. usefull for those spacy applications and the midiverb II is
the only dweedlezapper (as my wife like to call fx unit- they all look the same
to her) that has it.
Splonedog Studios
http://w3.nai.net/~splone
THINMANJR
Darin,
You made a very good point in replying to my post. Your point is well taken.
Andy Moore
Eleven Shadows said...
> For one of her songs, her engineer claims to have performed over 500
> (yes, five hundred -- you read that right) overdubs on her voice. On
> other songs, she regularly employs wel over a hundred. In my music, I
> often will comp over 30 vocals together to create a lush choir-like
> sound.
I thought it was something like that. I don't trust my memory, so I
decided to err on the low side...
But, WOW! How would she do that? Obviously not separate tracks! So
they're either doing a lot of bouncing and submixing, or (more likely)
doing it all digital and just adding/mixing the layers one at a time,
possibily keeping separate groupings. And think of the *time* it would
take! I'm guessing she basically has her own studio to do this; it
would cost a fortune to camp out in a production studio for weeks,
wouldn't it?
Is it worth all that trouble? I really like her music and singing, but
I'm not sure I could tell the difference between, say, 2 or 4 or 8
layers with a lot of processing, and hundreds of layers...
Fred Lessing
Since I've taken to recording on my PC (using Cakewalk), 30 vocals is not
that much of a problem anymore. In Cakewalk, you simply sing on top of
what's already there - within the SAME track - and then merge this new
"audio event" with the rest of the track. Takes about 5 seconds, and you can
do it as often as you like. No bouncing. And you needn't do it for every
chorus individually - one simply copies and pastes the chorus wherever one
wants it. (In fact, I think computer recording makes the chorus - or any
repetition - a cheat...)
Nowadays, with computer recording (almost) readily available, one needn't go
to a studio to do this kind of stuff. My own music is much more what I
always wanted it to be since I dumped my old 4-track (sorry - I know this is
a 4-track group, but it's also exactly here where a lot of people helped me
to make up my mind).
Andy Moore wrote in message <349813...@concentric.net>...
>But, WOW! How would she do that? Obviously not separate tracks! So
>they're either doing a lot of bouncing and submixing, or (more likely)
>doing it all digital and just adding/mixing the layers one at a time,
>possibily keeping separate groupings. And think of the *time* it would
>take! I'm guessing she basically has her own studio to do this; it
>would cost a fortune to camp out in a production studio for weeks,
>wouldn't it?
Eleven Shadows
Andy Moore wrote:
>
> Eleven Shadows said...
> > For one of her songs, her engineer claims to have performed over 500
> > (yes, five hundred -- you read that right) overdubs on her voice. On
> > other songs, she regularly employs wel over a hundred. In my music, I
> > often will comp over 30 vocals together to create a lush choir-like
> > sound.
>
> I thought it was something like that. I don't trust my memory, so I
> decided to err on the low side...
>
> they're either doing a lot of bouncing and submixing, or (more likely)
> doing it all digital and just adding/mixing the layers one at a time,
> possibily keeping separate groupings. And think of the *time* it would
> take!
That would be my major concern -- the time!!! It was either her studio
or the producer's studio, I don't remember which. I read the article a
long time ago. I have no idea how she actually did this. A quick way
would be if someone on this newsgroup has this album, it should say
whether the album was recorded on analog or digital.
> I'm guessing she basically has her own studio to do this; it
> would cost a fortune to camp out in a production studio for weeks,
> wouldn't it?
Yeah, it would be scary.
>
> Is it worth all that trouble? I really like her music and singing, but
> I'm not sure I could tell the difference between, say, 2 or 4 or 8
> layers with a lot of processing, and hundreds of layers...
Well, there's a pretty big difference between a handful of voices and
hundreds of voices. Somewhere in between is where most people would
stop. I just did a recording for a compilation CD which had washes of
held vocals -- probably used about thirty total, but not necessarily all
in one place. They kept lapping over each other, coming in and out,
ebbing and flowing. Thirty vocals starts sounding pretty lush,
especially with the processing.
Atman
This has been a pretty interesting thread. I'm beginning to seriously plan
my move into recording and, along with the equipment I'll need, I'm seeking
out techniques for creating the sounds I'm after. I have no experience at
this point, only speculation. I'm curious about the processing that you
refer to. What are some effects used in vocal processing?
I am quite interested in the layering that has already been discussed, I had
no idea that hundreds of vocals would be layered, that's amazing. I was
wondering, taking Enya for example (because she is an excellent example),
would you apply different EQ settings to each layer to fill out the spectrum
and make the sound more dense/lush? And what is the typical layering
technique? Does she actually sing 500 tracks and layer them, or are we
talking about singing about a dozen takes and then overdubbing them on top
of each other 500 times with slight and varying delays? I assume it's the
latter approach.
The music I am intending to record is very much dependent upon enormous
amounts of layering (of instruments as well as vocals) so building a home
(digital) studio is really my only option.
This should probably be in a separate thread, but does anyone have any
experience with the Tascam 564? It's only 4track, but with 8 inputs and the
ability to bounce tracks infinitely (well, up to 37 minutes of music,
anyway) w/o degradation, I think it sounds viable. I'm also considering the
Roland VS-880, which offers many more features, including 8tracks (64
virtual tracks), auto-mixing and the benefits of a digital mixer, among
others. Money is quite limited, of course, especially considering that I'm
starting from scratch and will also have to pick up the mics, preamps,
EQ/compressor/effects procs, and a mixboard (and probably other shit I
haven't even realized yet).
If anyone has any good experience recording very layered music (ie Enya,
Peter Gabriel, etc.), I'd love to pick your brain.
--
Take it easy,
JDS
'For art to exist, for any sort of aesthetic activity to exist, a
certain physiological precondition is indespensible: Intoxication.'
-- Friedrich Nietzsche - Twilight of the Gods
Eleven Shadows wrote in message <349884...@primenet.com>...
>> > For one of her songs, her engineer claims to have performed over 500
>> > (yes, five hundred -- you read that right) overdubs on her voice. On
>> > other songs, she regularly employs wel over a hundred. In my music, I
>> > often will comp over 30 vocals together to create a lush choir-like
>> > sound.
>>
Splonedog
>
This has been a pretty interesting thread. I'm beginning to seriously
>plan
my move into recording and, along with the equipment I'll need, I'm
>seeking
out techniques for creating the sounds I'm after. I have no
>experience at
this point, only speculation. I'm curious about the processing
>that you
refer to. What are some effects used in vocal processing?
in enya's case, there's tons of lush reverb mostly, but I'm sure there's also
compression. what you are really hearing when you hear enya is not only a top
notch vocalist, but also a truly expensive microphone and preamp. that's where
80% of that sound comes from.
I am
>quite interested in the layering that has already been discussed, I had
no
>idea that hundreds of vocals would be layered, that's amazing. I
>was
wondering, taking Enya for example (because she is an excellent
>example),
would you apply different EQ settings to each layer to fill out the
>spectrum
and make the sound more dense/lush?
probably not. I would probably eq them very similarly to occur only in that
bright 3-6k range along with some air at 15-20k. that's what makes her voice
sound so much like a synth sample (it might even be one in some passages)
whereas eqing them to fill out the spectrum would make them sound more natural.
enya's vocal sound is anything but natural (at least the backing vocals that
are layered).
And what is the typical
>layering
technique? Does she actually sing 500 tracks and layer them, or are
>we
talking about singing about a dozen takes and then overdubbing them on
>top
of each other 500 times with slight and varying delays? I assume it's
>the
latter approach.
probably not. I would think that if enya were to double, she would actually
double them by singing them over and over. I highly doubt that you are
listening to 500 overdubs at one time though. I would think that they might
have done 500 "takes", but then listened to them and deleted any parts of the
takes, or entire takes that had problems for whatever reason. it sounds to me
like you are hearing perhaps 10-15 overdubs at one time for those backround
voxes. esp. the harmonies.
The music I am intending to record is very much
>dependent upon enormous
amounts of layering (of instruments as well as
>vocals) so building a home
(digital) studio is really my only option.
This
>should probably be in a separate thread, but does anyone have any
experience
>with the Tascam 564? It's only 4track, but with 8 inputs and the
ability to
>bounce tracks infinitely (well, up to 37 minutes of music,
anyway) w/o
>degradation, I think it sounds viable.
without degradation? how is that possible?
I'm also considering the
Roland
>VS-880, which offers many more features, including 8tracks (64
virtual
>tracks), auto-mixing and the benefits of a digital mixer, among
others.
this would be a much better choice given that it's digital, and that you can do
up to 99 tracks and then select the 8 best ones for your rmix.
>Money is quite limited, of course, especially considering that I'm
starting
>from scratch and will also have to pick up the mics,
>preamps,
EQ/compressor/effects procs, and a mixboard (and probably other shit
>I
haven't even realized yet).
BELIEVE ME on this point. always get the most recorder you can. always push
the limits of what you can afford in this department. you will never regret
having a top notch machine, but you will always regret having one that doesn't
do what you need it to do. be sure to allow room to grow - you will be amazed
at how fast you want more tracks and a cleaner sound. go for the roland - big
time.
If anyone has any good experience recording
>very layered music (ie Enya,
Peter Gabriel, etc.), I'd love to pick your
>brain.
--
that's mostly what I do. what would you like to know?
Splonedog Studios
http://w3.nai.net/~splone
Eleven Shadows
Atman wrote:
>
> This has been a pretty interesting thread. I'm beginning to seriously plan
> my move into recording and, along with the equipment I'll need, I'm seeking
> out techniques for creating the sounds I'm after. I have no experience at
> this point, only speculation. I'm curious about the processing that you
> refer to. What are some effects used in vocal processing?
For creating lush vocal washes and such, I use chorusing, delay, and
reverb. I also use a fairly bright condenser microphone with the singer
farther back from the microphone than if she were singing the lead vocal
of a pop song (maybe 2-3' back) and then send the signal through a BBE
Sonic Maximizer set on "stun" -- completely maxed out to produce a very
unnatural shimmer in the higher frequencies. When these sounds are
layered, they produce a very nice shimmery choir effect. I don't know
how other people do it, as I have developed this independently of other
engineering techniques, but chances are there are plenty of other people
doing it as well. I also sometimes control the "envelope" of the singer
by gainriding the fader. I also slightly tweak the effects and EQ upon
occasion to get create a lusher sound.
>
> I am quite interested in the layering that has already been discussed, I had
> no idea that hundreds of vocals would be layered, that's amazing. I was
> wondering, taking Enya for example (because she is an excellent example),
> would you apply different EQ settings to each layer to fill out the spectrum
> and make the sound more dense/lush? And what is the typical layering
> technique? Does she actually sing 500 tracks and layer them,
In this one instance, yes. However, please remember that this was only
for one song, and while she does multi-track her vocals extensively, it
usually is no where to this extent.
> or are we
> talking about singing about a dozen takes and then overdubbing them on top
> of each other 500 times with slight and varying delays? I assume it's the
> latter approach.
>
> The music I am intending to record is very much dependent upon enormous
> amounts of layering (of instruments as well as vocals) so building a home
> (digital) studio is really my only option.
I do much of my overlapping of vocals on an analog machine. I comp
vocals by making submixes and keep going. I also do it on SAW+ on the
computer, but digital equipment is by no means necessary. I have no
idea whether Enya records digitally or analog-y (sorry...), but bear in
mind that older groups such as 10cc "I'm not in Love" or Queen "Bohemian
Rhapsody" were recorded on analog equipment, and the results of those
multi-tracked voices sound very lush.
> If anyone has any good experience recording very layered music (ie Enya,
> Peter Gabriel, etc.), I'd love to pick your brain.
Post here so everyone gets the benefit of shared knowledge.
Betty English
>In article <milkman-ya0234800...@news.wwonline.com>,
>mil...@earthling.net (MilkMan) writes:
>
>>Can anyone tell me how that Enya vocal sound is done ??? That rich,
>>lush,
>synthy "Enya" vocal sound.
>
>If you know how this is done.....please
>>email me at: mil...@earthling.net
>
>--
Acctually, I saw an interview with her a few years back In which she
explaned a large part of her distinctive vocal sound as coming from
overdubbing the same vocal line over and over again 20 to 30 times.
Obviously not a practical tool for 4 track recording, but I hope this helps
some.
p0rt...@hotmail.com
> Can anyone tell me how that Enya vocal sound is done ??? That rich, lush,
> synthy "Enya" vocal sound.
>
> If you know how this is done.....please email me at: mil...@earthling.net
>
> --
> Signatures² into your Preferences folder.