Decline of ye text based adventure?
Zachary A
Year 8 and people were frightfully scared of the Millenium Bug and
excited about the faux Millenium, MUDs seemed to be booming.
People were hacking and slashing, questing and exploring, mad
as lorries. I look around and see MUDs in decline. The MUD I play
which used to have upwards of 300 players to 400 players connected
during peak periods now averages something around approximately
150 to 200 players during the peak period.
I've tried to connect to MUDs that I played years before and found
them offline or deserted. Others have max player bases of five or
six. I appreciate that a lot of MUDs have smaller playerbases but
the lower your playerbase gets the more precarious your position.
The question I ask of you is, "Is this a universal problem that all
MUDs are encountering? And if so, why and what can be done
about it?"
Personally, if I look around I see MUDs like Medtheivia or the Iron
Realms MUDs which seem to be doing quite well for themselves.
However, to the best of my knowledge these are pay for perks MUDs
and if you want that shiny sword of +3 pwnage, you might need to
crack open your wallet to do so. Yet the MUD I play is a Diku
derivative so making money from the MUD in any way would
breach our licence. Not that Medevia was ever troubled by this, but
many other Diku and Diku descendant MUDs are.
As speculation, it is possible that these MUDs could afford to hire
Administration on a full time basis. This means that new code or
areas could be completed and inserted much faster than non-profit
MUDs. This is a possible explanation for their success. Hell, the idea
of spending some cash for items probably even appeals to bsuy people
who may not have the time to spend running mobs for four hours or so.
Another potential factor is the ascendancy of the MMORPG, back in
1999 your choices were very limited, there was EQ, UO - correct me
if I'm wrong, then later AC and DAoC Now there are dozens and
dozens. Hell, three players in the room I'm currently in are discussing
WoW raids. You can't fault the players though. This is the very symbol
of a free market economy, if they're having more fun somewhere else,
they should go where they get the most enjoyment.
I've also heard the public distribution of SMAUG cited as a reason
for the decline of MUDs. The argument being that anyone was then
able to just download some files, act as a server and boom, instant
MUD and it happened quite a lot. There was a time when you'd search
for new MUDs and you'd just see out of the box SMAUG clone after out
of the box SMAUG clone.
The point being that these MUDs would pull players, so instead of
have a few MUDs with fifty or sixty steady players you would instead
have a few dozen with four or five players. Personally, I believe this
is a crock. There have been publicly realsed code bases before; Diku
for instance. Not that Diku is available any more. Thank Vryce for
that.
What I've listed out are some of the theories and arguments on the
belief of the decline of MUDs. Damned if I know how to solve the
problem though. Are free to play, no pay for perks MUDs destined
to become a SNES in a 2006 console world? Kind of neat, but kind
of outdated?
This kind of turned out longer than I ever expected it to. I look
forward to your replies.
- Zac
Ruediger
Text is found amongst the previous writers segments.
Zachary A wrote:
> Back when I started mudding, in the hilarious days of 1999
Ouch. Mudding is done since as early as 1979 as far as I know. I started in
1989 with my good old Amiga. I remember Furrymuck to have about 800 active
players on average in 1995 or so when I visited it then and when
> when I was
> Year 8 and people were frightfully scared of the Millenium Bug
Which Millenium Bug? I thought it was only this Microsoft-Stuff that had
this problem?
> and
> excited about the faux Millenium, MUDs seemed to be booming.
> People were hacking and slashing, questing and exploring, mad
> as lorries. I look around and see MUDs in decline. The MUD I play
> which used to have upwards of 300 players to 400 players connected
> during peak periods now averages something around approximately
> 150 to 200 players during the peak period.
Yepp, a certain , say, reduction in overall numbers of active MUD-players is
seen everywhere.
>
> I've tried to connect to MUDs that I played years before and found
> them offline or deserted. Others have max player bases of five or
> six. I appreciate that a lot of MUDs have smaller playerbases but
> the lower your playerbase gets the more precarious your position.
>
> The question I ask of you is, "Is this a universal problem that all
> MUDs are encountering? And if so, why and what can be done
> about it?"
Yes, it is an universal problem. Why? There are more an more offers on the
net. Like, remember, the music-industry that is unwilling to realize that
with their more and more crappy products they HAVE TO HAVE a sinking income
when their customers are spending their money more diversified.
What can be done about it?
In theory simple:
MUD's need to attrect more people.
But then again that is very, very difficult.
Mud's live from their athmosphere, and, look, when you go to a MMORPG like
WoW you see a nightelf named "JaMeS_dA_gAnGsTa" - such a thing is overkill
for athmosphere. Add to this that discussions like this are really standard
on WoW ( Me being Aries, defense-oriented human knight, level 60 ):
JaMeS: need t-59+ for ubs
Aries: I'm sorry - What is a T-59? And why do you need that for that
gnomeish financial-guild?
[UBS is the name of a finance-counselling corporation in the real world]
JaMeS: No t-59+ here?
Aries: I fear I have to tell you that, as of having no clue about what you
are talking, good Sire James, I cannot help you. When it would be the
services of an experienced knight to guard you and your teammates through
the darkness of the upper Blackrock's spire, I could help you.
JaMeS: need t-59+ for ubs!!!!!
Aries: Well, Maybe, since you are calling this since almost 15 minutes
already and noone responded, noone knows what you are talking about, good
Sire?
JaMeS: Fugg it yo basfart. helkp me or shuddup.
Aries: Pardon, Sire James?
JaMeS: fucc it, aries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aries: Might it be you are.. uhhhmmm.. Slighty confused and wishing to go
back to the home of the nightelves? Shall I escort you there?
James: asshole!!! when yo not wanta help me, i go.
[JaMeS logs out]
Well - this and other, similar discusions I had to hear almost hourly on a
ROLEPLAYING server. So, I stopped playing WOW after about half a year. It's
too dissapointing and has no athmosphere whatsoever - everything that is
made up from the graphics and music is destroyed by the stupidity of a
majority of the players.
Pitily there are not enough people thinking like me - or like you in that
case - else the MUD's would soon gain their old strength back. But the
problem is that the majority of those that could play MUD's did never hear
of them or, thanks to MTV and Mickeysoft, lack the fantasy to be able to
use the text-oriented worlds of the MUD's - they need graphicals to be
captured, and that most MUD's don't serve.
What would be needed would be a graphical interface for MUD's, enabling the
users to use it in a point&click style - Remember that most users are
accustomed to Windows and thus consider the keyboard just as an utility
item, and not a primary interface -
*snipped*
>
> As speculation, it is possible that these MUDs could afford to hire
> Administration on a full time basis. This means that new code or
> areas could be completed and inserted much faster than non-profit
> MUDs. This is a possible explanation for their success. Hell, the idea
> of spending some cash for items probably even appeals to bsuy people
> who may not have the time to spend running mobs for four hours or so.
Though professionally hosted MMORPG's such as WoW have full-time
admisitration, they have problems even worse than those voluntary-based
systems used in MUD's or MMOSG's like Furcadia ( http://www.furcadia.com ).
Because, when I pay for a Roleplaying game, I want a roleplaying game - not
a Hack&Slay action-shooter with the athmosphere of a ghetto in NYC.
But for Blizzard the majority that pays is interesting, and that is those
wanting a Hack&Slay action-shooter with the athmosphere of a ghetto in NYC.
And funnily: Blizzard announced WoW as a game emphasizing to be especially
playable for the working and thus only seldomly playing user.
Good idea.
But 20% of the interesting items you only get in 40-Player instances that
take 2 to 8 hours to walk through, so it is for someone like me who has
about 1 to 2 hours playtime a day from 20:00 to 22:00 during the week
absolutely impossible to go onto such "raids", so I will not only never see
10 to 20% of the game, but I am also unable to obtain the coolest stuff -
because it is to be found only there.
Instead of making more and more 5-player instances, which would be much
harder than a 40-player one ( less flexibility in the group, so it WILL BE
HARDER with 5 than with 40 ), Blizzard just released another 40-player
zone. What a luck for me - I stopped playing anyway, cause it was
absolutely unfullfilling just duck-sittign around not finding any groups to
join, because of my limited playtimes, and without group being unable to
obtain new items and visit new places.
Things like that usually don't happen in a MUD - for MUD's are usually made
by the players for the players, thus answering the demands of the players
much better than commercial offers, IMHO.
>
> Another potential factor is the ascendancy of the MMORPG, back in
> 1999 your choices were very limited, there was EQ, UO - correct me
> if I'm wrong, then later AC and DAoC Now there are dozens and
> dozens. Hell, three players in the room I'm currently in are discussing
> WoW raids. You can't fault the players though. This is the very symbol
> of a free market economy, if they're having more fun somewhere else,
> they should go where they get the most enjoyment.
Yeah: My mix: Americas Army, Furcadia, and Freeciv.
And, when I am playing for my own: FreeCiv vs CPU and PlanetPenguinRacer.
D'oh : And my beloved Amiga with Turrican and such.
>
> I've also heard the public distribution of SMAUG cited as a reason
> for the decline of MUDs. The argument being that anyone was then
> able to just download some files, act as a server and boom, instant
> MUD and it happened quite a lot. There was a time when you'd search
> for new MUDs and you'd just see out of the box SMAUG clone after out
> of the box SMAUG clone.
SMAUG's impact was not noticeable on the large MUD's. it was overkill for
the small and medium ones, though.
>
> The point being that these MUDs would pull players, so instead of
> have a few MUDs with fifty or sixty steady players you would instead
> have a few dozen with four or five players. Personally, I believe this
> is a crock.
The effect is true, though. Look at the server-load for Americas army: The
more servers there are, the thinner their population becomes. Almost
chronical everywhere, applies for Neverwinter Nights exactly the same.
> There have been publicly realsed code bases before; Diku
> for instance.
> Not that Diku is available any more. Thank Vryce for
> that.
>
> What I've listed out are some of the theories and arguments on the
> belief of the decline of MUDs. Damned if I know how to solve the
> problem though. Are free to play, no pay for perks MUDs destined
> to become a SNES in a 2006 console world? Kind of neat, but kind
> of outdated?
Pitily: Yes.
>
> This kind of turned out longer than I ever expected it to. I look
> forward to your replies.
>
>
> - Zac
No prob, youre welcome.
--
Sincerely
Ruediger
flyn...@gmail.com
greater than the limiting factors of graphical games.
As the tastes of roleplayers mature the MUD will come back. It may be a
while and if there is ever a day where a graphical mmo can be updated
on the fly with out forcing a downloadable patch, or custom items can
be developed without the use of a 3d renderer and multiple artists then
yes MUDs will make a new appearance.
People who develop MUDs now are much more innovative and can focus one
hte needs of players. My MUD is developed with the grahpical MMO person
in mind. It's still all text but it has practically every aspect of a
regular MMO short of the pictures. Besides if you have a great writer
words create prettier pictures..
I've been MUDing since I got my first computer and played one as a BBS
Door. Id say mid to late 80's. Ive been developing MUDs since early to
mid 90's. Right now the team I am on has developed it's own MJUD engine
which uses state of the art coding. No memory leaks. All changes can be
implimented wth a command and you never have to reboot your systems. It
looks and acts very simmilar to corperate AS400 MUDs which I have been
privy to since the early 90's.
MUDs will return but it will be the Casual gamer/Roleplayer that will
carry them, thats why I gear my worlds acordingly.
Paul O'Neill
<flyn...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149097263.9...@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
MUDs arent gone, they're just fallen in popularity.
With cheaper bandwith, free broadband and 3d cards as standard, Graphical
MMO's are here to stay. They'll never really replace MUDs. You'll always be
able to text-play, but anyone who thinks City of Heroes and World of
Warcraft are a flash-in-the-pan phenomenon are in for a long wait.
Hans-Henrik Stærfeldt
> MUDs arent gone, they're just fallen in popularity.
>
> With cheaper bandwith, free broadband and 3d cards as standard, Graphical
> MMO's are here to stay. They'll never really replace MUDs. You'll always
> be able to text-play, but anyone who thinks City of Heroes and World of
> Warcraft are a flash-in-the-pan phenomenon are in for a long wait.
>
I see muds returning more as a 'Dungeonmaster-interface' rather than the
style we have seen previously. I do not think we will get around the use of
3D and graphics, but used as the DM controlls smaller encounters. This is
the only way I see MUD's gaining popularity, as it would supply a
very 'rich' roleplaying experience in a multiuser (or even multi-DM)
environment. If a DM can create a 3D scene as easily as if he described it
in words, then you would be moving away from the problem of environment
being demanding to produce. Possibly tweakable procedurally generated
content. If you solve the problems of the 'online' DM in a 3D MUD context,
you will attract the general slice of the population that is prone to
roleplaying, gaining the exactly right people to fill the ranks (rather
than the JaMeS_dA_gAnGsTa style player...
A good 'MUD' would then be the mud with a well defined library of procedures
for content generation and DM manipulation, as well as easy access to
roleplaying features for the player, possibly controlled through the text
interface. '>pick up nearest blaster rifle' would make your avatar do
exactly this in 3D. With a text interface for the 3D environment, the rest
of the roleplaying (text wise) is now 'closer' to the input method, and
would be used more often. Believe it or not - text interface has a higher
bit-per-second transfer rate than what you normally can accomplish with a
mouse.
--Hans-Henrik.
Jason Lewis
in the world that can compete with the human imagination. I believe
that it will take getting away from the hack and slash type MUDS and
more into a world where there are other things to do (i.e. Crafting,
Questing, Creating your own home, ruling your own lands) This coupled
with a new way of looking at the way players interact with the world
and vice versa will allow for a better gaming experience.
For to long the MUD worlds have been, create a character, hack and
slash until MAX_LEVEL and then chat because there is nothing else to do
with that character.
Kai Rosenthal
> MUDS will never go completely away because there is no graphics engine
> in the world that can compete with the human imagination.
Good point.
Books are not vanishing from our world, just because there are TV and
movies.
P&P RPGs are not declining, just because there are MMORGs.
The word is more powerful than the ... pixel?
Kai
Mikko Putkonen
"Text vs Visual - Are UO, EQ, and DAoC killing text-based muds?"
http://tinyurl.com/qbbdk
-Methem
the Big H
found that although at first they shunned the MUD due to lack of
graphics once they found out how it worked they were hooked.
telnet://hexmud.com:4000
http://hexmud.com
* SMAUGFUSS 1.9 Based *
Thorns
I'm recently interested in creating an adventure game.
I have only played a MUD once, around 2002.
I remember I got hooked immediately.
FoxMUD was OK, except the weird areas where you would get stuck in
space or die.
I played for around a couple of months or more.
Adventure games and role playing games have always been my favourite.
The first game I played on a PC, my first PC, was Loom by Lucas Arts.
I will never forget that game.
For my adventure game, I started scribbling possible scripts because I
haven't decided on the theme yet.
Scripts are edited on Google Docs, collaboratively.
For the programming, I was looking into Love 2D, a Lua game engine.
But now I'm more interested in the Blender Game Engine, allowing easy
scripting in Python and logical blocks.
I haven't thought about this until now, but if I would choose the game
to be a graphical RPG instead of an adventure game, the script would
change completely (more players, more advanced world vs. a central
player point of view).
**
**
On the main subject. I'm saddened that MUDs seem to be declining so
hard. I don't think there is a more immersive experience than that of
MUDs and well written adventure games.
The newest attempts just lack the environment that captures you --
poor scripts. Graphics isn't everything.