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how to transfer data to DOS thru RS 232 cable?

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Michelle

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Oct 3, 2008, 1:31:18 PM10/3/08
to
I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
system.
This machine doesn't have a computer. It just has a RS-232 port to
transfer data.

So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
data from that laptop to this machine?

Richard Bonner

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Oct 3, 2008, 3:15:23 PM10/3/08
to

*** Look into INTERLNK.exe. It used to come with MS-DOS 6.x

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

foxidrive

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Oct 4, 2008, 2:56:34 AM10/4/08
to
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 19:15:23 +0000 (UTC), ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard
Bonner) wrote:

>Michelle (serendi...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>> I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
>> system.
>> This machine doesn't have a computer. It just has a RS-232 port to
>> transfer data.
>
>> So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
>> a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer data from that laptop to this machine?
>
>*** Look into INTERLNK.exe. It used to come with MS-DOS 6.x

That requires Interlnk as well as Intersvr - the pair work together.

Robert Roland

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Oct 4, 2008, 9:10:35 AM10/4/08
to
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:31:18 -0700 (PDT), Michelle
<serendi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
>system.
>This machine doesn't have a computer. It just has a RS-232 port to
>transfer data.

I'm not sure I understand. If the machine runs DOS, it IS a computer.

>So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
>a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
>data from that laptop to this machine?

It depends how you want to send data. Windows versions prior to Vista
have an applications called Hyper Terminal that can send and receive
data on a serial port. It can send keyboard key presses to the serial
port, and it can also receive data from the serial port and display
the received text on the screen. In addition, it can send or receive
data files.

To send data from a file to the serial port in Batch, you can use:

copy /b example.fil COM1:

To receive data from the serial port and store it in a file, you go
the other way:

copy /b COM1: newfile.fil

Before you can use these commands, you must initialize the serial port
with the proper speed and other parameters. This is done using the
MODE command. Use "MODE /?" to see how it works.
--
RoRo

Dr J R Stockton

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Oct 4, 2008, 1:59:22 PM10/4/08
to
On Oct 3, 8:15 pm, ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard Bonner) wrote:

> Michelle (serendipity1...@yahoo.com) wrote:
> > I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
> > system.

Anbiguous. is it the area or the machine that uses DOS.

> > This machine doesn't have a computer.  It just has a RS-232 port to
> > transfer data.

Anything running DOS has a computer, though maybe hidden.

> > So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
> > a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer data from that laptop to this machine?
>
> ***   Look into INTERLNK.exe. It used to come with MS-DOS 6.x


IIRC, INTERLNK requires a computer at each end.

IMHO, the OP will want a Windows or DOS program with a COM or AUX
driver for the RS-232 device. Testing this PC, which lacks an RS-232,
suggests that there is, ar the CMD prompt, an AUX driver which hangs
without an AUX port.

This is not the right newsgroup; a windows+hardware one is needed.

--
(c) John Stockton, near London, UK. Posting with Google.
Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org or (better) via Home Page at
Web: <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/>
FAQish topics, acronyms, links, etc.; Date, Delphi, JavaScript, ....|

Richard Bonner

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Oct 4, 2008, 7:10:28 PM10/4/08
to

*** Thanks, foxi. I knew that but since they go hand in hand, I declined
to mention it. In a forum such a this where the skills of users vary
greatly, I should have given that too.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

Richard Bonner

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Oct 4, 2008, 7:13:32 PM10/4/08
to
Robert Roland (fa...@ddress.no) wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:31:18 -0700 (PDT), Michelle
> <serendi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
> >system.
> >This machine doesn't have a computer. It just has a RS-232 port to
> >transfer data.

> >So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
> >a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
> >data from that laptop to this machine?

> It depends how you want to send data. Windows versions prior to Vista
> have an applications called Hyper Terminal that can send and receive
> data on a serial port. It can send keyboard key presses to the serial
> port, and it can also receive data from the serial port and display
> the received text on the screen. In addition, it can send or receive
> data files.

> To send data from a file to the serial port in Batch, you can use:

> copy /b example.fil COM1:

> To receive data from the serial port and store it in a file, you go
> the other way:

> copy /b COM1: newfile.fil

> Before you can use these commands, you must initialize the serial port
> with the proper speed and other parameters. This is done using the
> MODE command. Use "MODE /?" to see how it works.
> --
> RoRo

*** Will not a null-modem cable be required for serial-to-serial port
hookup?

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

foxidrive

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Oct 5, 2008, 2:43:24 AM10/5/08
to
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 23:13:32 +0000 (UTC), ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard
Bonner) wrote:

>> It depends how you want to send data. Windows versions prior to Vista
>> have an applications called Hyper Terminal that can send and receive
>> data on a serial port. It can send keyboard key presses to the serial
>> port, and it can also receive data from the serial port and display
>> the received text on the screen. In addition, it can send or receive
>> data files.

>*** Will not a null-modem cable be required for serial-to-serial port hookup?

Yes that's a good point Richard. They are also variously referred to as
'laplink' cables or even crossover serial cables.


If the amount of data is on the larger side then a parallel 'laplink' cable
transfer method using Interlnk/Intersvr is faster, or you can probably find
the laplink software on the net too.

Franc Zabkar

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Oct 5, 2008, 3:56:38 AM10/5/08
to
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:31:18 -0700 (PDT), Michelle
<serendi...@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

Is the machine's DOS in ROM or on fixed magnetic storage? What
commands do you have to work with? Where does the machine store its
data? RAM? Flash EEPROM? Fixed magnetic storage?

ISTR that a product called Laplink could transfer data to another
machine by first transferring its own code. However, in order to do
this, one first needed to execute the following commands on the target
machine:

MODE COMx:2400,n,8,1,p
CTTY COMx

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Richard Bonner

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Oct 5, 2008, 7:51:36 AM10/5/08
to
foxidrive (got...@woohoo.invalid) wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 23:13:32 +0000 (UTC), ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard
> Bonner) wrote:
> >*** Will not a null-modem cable be required for serial-to-serial port hookup?

> Yes that's a good point Richard. They are also variously referred to as
> 'laplink' cables or even crossover serial cables.

*** Yes. One cannot just hook up a straight-wired cable because some of
the pins need to be cross connected.


> If the amount of data is on the larger side then a parallel 'laplink' cable
> transfer method using Interlnk/Intersvr is faster, or you can probably find
> the laplink software on the net too.

*** I have seen it in my travels. I shall try to locate a website and
add the link to my "DOS Websites" page.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

teebo

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Oct 5, 2008, 12:25:46 PM10/5/08
to

so instead of running interlnk/intersrv or laplink I could
transfer files with the serial-to-serial null-modem cable by
on the receiving computer write

MODE COMx:2400,n,8,1,p
CTTY COMx

copy /b COM1: mygame.exe

and then on the sending computer write

MODE COMx:2400,n,8,1,p
CTTY COMx

copy /b mygame.exe COM1:

or?

teebo

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Oct 5, 2008, 12:30:00 PM10/5/08
to
sorry I mean

> MODE COM1:2400,n,8,1,p
> CTTY COM1


> copy /b COM1: mygame.exe
>
> and then on the sending computer write
>

> MODE COM1:2400,n,8,1,p
> CTTY COM1
> copy /b mygame.exe COM1:
>

now it is correct? (if I use serial port 1 on both computers)

what will happen if I forget /b ?
can I have faster speed, like 9600 ?

Bernard Peek

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Oct 5, 2008, 1:28:03 PM10/5/08
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In message <op.uij5bbscbr8ivg@300pl>, teebo <n...@mail.no> writes

>> MODE COM1:2400,n,8,1,p
>> CTTY COM1
>> copy /b mygame.exe COM1:
>>
>
>now it is correct? (if I use serial port 1 on both computers)
>
>what will happen if I forget /b ?
>can I have faster speed, like 9600 ?

Or 19200, yes.

If you forget the /b you may find that it copies as ascii text, which
means that the high bits of each byte will be set to 0. You program
won't run.

There are established protocols for moving files over a serial link, you
would be best advised to run proper serial comms software at each end. I
don't know whether Procomm is still around.

--
Bernard Peek
London, UK. DBA, Manager, Trainer & Author.

Robert Roland

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Oct 5, 2008, 1:53:41 PM10/5/08
to
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 23:13:32 +0000 (UTC), ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard
Bonner) wrote:

>Will not a null-modem cable be required for serial-to-serial port
>hookup?

It depends.

There are two variations of the serial port, the DTE and the DCE. If
you want to connect two equal devices (DTE to DTE or DCE to DCE), you
will need a nullmodem. If you want to connect two different devices
(DTE to DCE), as was the original intention with the standard, you
need a straight-through cable.

Most computers are wired as a DTE. Most, if not all, modems are wired
as a DCE. Other devices can be any type, depending on what the
designers of that equipment felt was natural.

I have even seen ports that are electrically DTE, but the physical
connector is female, as is normal for a DCE. I think Sun did, maybe
still do, this on their workstations.
--
RoRo

Robert Roland

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Oct 5, 2008, 2:05:10 PM10/5/08
to

No, you must not use the CTTY in this case. The CTTY command instructs
DOS to start receiving commands from the serial port, and send
responses back to the serial port, effectively letting you remote
control the DOS machine over the serial port. Laplink and similar
software probably command the machine to ECHO some characters to a
file and the execute that file.

While your suggestion will theoretically work, there are two major
problems: Speed and reliability. There will be no error check
whatsoever, and a serial cable is quite prone to transmission errors,
so the file on the receiving end is likely to be corrupt.

You could use a higher speed, say 115200bps, but it will still be
quite slow, and the chance of error will be even greater.

The solution to both problems is to use a network connection. Network
cards are quite cheap these days, and orders of magnitude faster. The
operating system will have built-in error handling, so you won't have
to worry about that either.
--
RoRo

Holger Petersen

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Oct 5, 2008, 3:32:32 PM10/5/08
to
Michelle <serendi...@yahoo.com> writes:

Some other meanings aside;

>I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
>system.

How do you know?
How old is that 'machine'?

>This machine doesn't have a computer.

Do you mean: "There is no keaboard nor Screen" or what else?

> It just has a RS-232 port to
>transfer data.

Might it be some Unix-System?
Or perhaps some 'Kermit' waitung for a connection?
Is there any documentation on that "machine"?

>So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
>a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
>data from that laptop to this machine?

Without any keyboard on that 'machine' all other tips here are useless...

Is the "RS-232 port" really RS-232 or perhaps rs-4xx?
How many pins on the connector?

Start with some multimeter. Put one lead (-)
to pin 5 (of nine) or 7 (of 25).
What voltage do you measure on Pin 2 and on 3?
Be prepared for +12, -12 or +5 Volt...

Just guessing, Holger

teebo

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Oct 5, 2008, 7:51:46 PM10/5/08
to

> No, you must not use the CTTY in this case. The CTTY command instructs
> DOS to start receiving commands from the serial port, and send
> responses back to the serial port, effectively letting you remote control

ok thanks

> While your suggestion will theoretically work, there are two major
> problems: Speed and reliability. There will be no error check
> whatsoever, and a serial cable is quite prone to transmission errors,
> so the file on the receiving end is likely to be corrupt.

aha

> The solution to both problems is to use a network connection.

yeah I guess the only case when using serial cable today is when the
computer have a broken floppy drive and the dos network driver isn't
copyed to that computer yet (or doesn't work/can't be found)


teebo

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Oct 5, 2008, 8:58:48 PM10/5/08
to
>> what will happen if I forget /b ?
>> can I have faster speed, like 9600 ?
>
> Or 19200, yes.
>
> If you forget the /b you may find that it copies as ascii text, which
> means that the high bits of each byte will be set to 0. You program
> won't run.

ohh.. I can't imagine any reason to ever use 7bit ascii transfer...
(even for text files since all chars like айедць would get destroyed then)
are there a way to set copy to always use binary mode even if I forget
to write /b on the commandline?

I would love to completely remove the posibility to copy in ascii mode


> There are established protocols for moving files over a serial link, you
> would be best advised to run proper serial comms software at each end. I
> don't know whether Procomm is still around.

ok

but it would have been nice if it was builtin in msdos
or freedos so there was no need for an extra program :-)

Sjouke Burry

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Oct 5, 2008, 10:44:47 PM10/5/08
to
It is build in , with interlnk and intersvr, where both computers
have disk access in both directions.
Example from a rescue floppy (win98 dos7.XX bootfloppy
of mine, you have to organize things on your drive:
----------config.sys-----------------------------
device=a:\interlnk.exe
-------------------------------------------------
no autoexec.bat.(in my case)
-------------------------------------------------

to start network service: type intersvr.
on the computer you want to export access of the drives.

interlnk seaches automatically for a laplink cable on
the printerport or a crosslink serial cable on com1 or 2

If successful you end up with some drives(d,e,f,g etc.)
you can access on the computer not running intersvr.

If you type interlnk at the dos prompt, the program
shows a list of drives it created.
Listing rescue floppy:
IO.SYS
MSDOS.SYS
COMMAND.COM
INTERLNK.EXE
XCOPY.EXE
INTERSVR.EXE
CONFIG.SYS
XCOPY32.EXE
XCOPY32.MOD
NTFSDOS.EXE
NTFSHLP.VXD
README.TXT
FDSK98SE.EXE
The extras give access to XP ntfs drives,
and a new MS formatter for large disks(fdsk98se.exe).

Todd Vargo

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Oct 5, 2008, 11:33:09 PM10/5/08
to
Holger Petersen wrote:
> Michelle <serendi...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Some other meanings aside;
>
> >I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
> >system.
>
> How do you know?
> How old is that 'machine'?
>
> >This machine doesn't have a computer.
>
> Do you mean: "There is no keaboard nor Screen" or what else?
>
> > It just has a RS-232 port to
> >transfer data.
>
> Might it be some Unix-System?
> Or perhaps some 'Kermit' waitung for a connection?
> Is there any documentation on that "machine"?
>
> >So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
> >a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
> >data from that laptop to this machine?
>
> Without any keyboard on that 'machine' all other tips here are useless...

Good questions, alas, with OP not posting back to answer them, random
suggestions like using Interlink or measuring pin voltages only clutter the
newsgroup. :(

>
> Is the "RS-232 port" really RS-232 or perhaps rs-4xx?
> How many pins on the connector?
>
> Start with some multimeter. Put one lead (-)
> to pin 5 (of nine) or 7 (of 25).
> What voltage do you measure on Pin 2 and on 3?
> Be prepared for +12, -12 or +5 Volt...
>
> Just guessing, Holger

--
Todd Vargo
(Post questions to group only. Remove "z" to email personal messages)

Richard Bonner

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Oct 6, 2008, 8:10:30 AM10/6/08
to
Bernard Peek (b...@shrdlu.com) wrote:
> There are established protocols for moving files over a serial link, you
> would be best advised to run proper serial comms software at each end. I
> don't know whether Procomm is still around.
> --
> Bernard Peek

*** DataStorm is gone(*), which means that ProComm is too. However, it
can be found on the net along with many other DOS terminal programs. It's
a great program.

I use ProComm Plus to access a Unix shell server for my mail and news,
and also for hack-proof, virus-proof Internet surfing with no router,
firewall or virus protection required.

One or more links to websites
for the referred program(s)
can be found at:

http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/Websites.html


Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

PS: The name "DataStorm" is still around but it appears to be a different
company.

R.

Richard Bonner

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Oct 6, 2008, 8:19:19 AM10/6/08
to
Todd Vargo (tlv...@sbcglobal.netz) wrote:
> Holger Petersen wrote:
> > Michelle <serendi...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > Some other meanings aside;
> >
> > >I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
> > >system.
> >
> > How do you know?
> > How old is that 'machine'?
> >
> > >This machine doesn't have a computer.
> >
> > Do you mean: "There is no keaboard nor Screen" or what else?
> >
> > > It just has a RS-232 port to
> > >transfer data.
> >
> > Might it be some Unix-System?
> > Or perhaps some 'Kermit' waitung for a connection?
> > Is there any documentation on that "machine"?
> >
> > >So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
> > >a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
> > >data from that laptop to this machine?
> >
> > Without any keyboard on that 'machine' all other tips here are useless...

> Good questions, alas, with OP not posting back to answer them, random
> suggestions like using Interlink or measuring pin voltages only clutter the
> newsgroup. :(

> --
> Todd Vargo

*** I don't see it as clutter, Todd. I look at any information as useful
for something, sometime. (-:

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

Todd Vargo

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Oct 6, 2008, 6:06:50 PM10/6/08
to
Richard Bonner wrote:

> Todd Vargo wrote:
>
> > Good questions, alas, with OP not posting back to answer them, random
> > suggestions like using Interlink or measuring pin voltages only clutter
the
> > newsgroup. :(
>
> *** I don't see it as clutter, Todd. I look at any information as useful
> for something, sometime. (-:

Thanks for adding to the clutter. :(

Richard Bonner

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Oct 8, 2008, 11:13:29 AM10/8/08
to
Todd Vargo (tlv...@sbcglobal.netz) wrote:

> Richard Bonner wrote:
> > *** I don't see it as clutter, Todd. I look at any information as
> > useful for something, sometime. (-:

> Thanks for adding to the clutter. :(
> --
> Todd Vargo

*** You're welcome, Todd. (-:

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

foxidrive

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Oct 8, 2008, 11:25:18 AM10/8/08
to
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:13:29 +0000 (UTC), ak...@chebucto.ns.ca (Richard
Bonner) wrote:

>Todd Vargo (tlv...@sbcglobal.netz) wrote:
>
>> Richard Bonner wrote:
>> > *** I don't see it as clutter, Todd. I look at any information as
>> > useful for something, sometime. (-:
>
>> Thanks for adding to the clutter. :(
>> --
>> Todd Vargo
>
>*** You're welcome, Todd. (-:

I've got nothing to say, I just wanted to add to the clutter as well. ;-)

Actually, the batch groups are decidely quiet these days... some clutter is
welcome. LOL

Richard Bonner

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Oct 9, 2008, 7:34:12 PM10/9/08
to

*** Well, as long as it's not spam clutter. (-:

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

Si Ballenger

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Nov 8, 2008, 8:09:20 PM11/8/08
to
On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 10:31:18 -0700 (PDT), Michelle
<serendi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have a machine in the Manufacturing area that uses the DOS operating
>system.

>This machine doesn't have a computer. It just has a RS-232 port to
>transfer data.
>


>So from another laptop (running Windows) that has a RS-232 port, with
>a RS-232 cable, how do I transfer
>data from that laptop to this machine?

For one way communication to the machine, the below can be used.
If you need to send non printable characters, the bottom link has
info. I use this to send data to servo controllers.

@echo off
mode com1:9600,N,8,1 >nul
echo #0 P500 T3000 #1 P2100 T3000 #2 P2100 T3000> com1

http://www.geocities.com/zoomkat/byte.htm


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