Paint Effects Scene !
Matt D. Leonard
I am trying to get hold of a PaintEffects scene of a garden.
I've seen some very nice images flying about the net but have never found a
Maya scene file that you can play with.
I have to create a garden as part of a project I am working on and as it
only pays $750.00 total I don't want to spend a week making a garden from
scratch. So I was wondering if anyone know where I could get something I
could us as a starting point. Or if anyone would be kind enough to give me
a scene they have made.
Long shot I know but if you don't ask you don't get !
Many, many thanks
Matt Leonard
Digital Dreams & Visions (UK) Ltd.
Animation & Digital Effects
Website at http://www.ddv.co.uk
E-Mail at anim...@ddv.co.uk
Tel. : +44 (0)1772 717-515
Fax. : +44 (0)1772 717-516
Services include :
Animation . Morphing . Compositing . 3D Camera Match Moving
Frozen/Time Slice . 2D Tracking . Picture Stabilisation
Matte Creation. Rotoscoping . Chroma Keying . Digital Paint
Wire Removal . Colour Correction . Training . Filming Supervision
Matt D. Leonard
> hi,
> By all your respect, I don't know what to say.... can you please read your
message again --> then look at the bottom which lists all your services you
offer --> then look at your web site's portfolio... I really start wondering
about the newcomers to this industry and this NG.... hope it gets better!!!
> hope this helps
>
> Enni
Hi Enni,
Thanks for your reply, I think?,
If you read my mail carefully and examine my website, which you have, you
will see that I don't have any problem in making quality animation work but
rather I have a time problem.
$750.00 = at top's 3 days work !
Out of that I need to produce 5 shots, one of which is this PaintEffects
garden.
What I was asking is weather anyone has anything that will help me speed up
my workflow on that particular shot.
If you can't help, that fine but please not go insinuating that I'm
incompetent. That's just dam-right nasty.
I would suggest that unless you have something constructive a say in future
you don't bother e-mail the NG. People don't just write in for a laugh,
well I guess some do but that not the point, people are looking for help !
And if you not felling helpful don't got putting them down instead.
OK I've finished my rant, no hard feelings !
Have a good one,
paddy
make snide comments about "newcomers to this industry and this NG". Maybe the language
barrier is getting in the way.
I think one of the nice things about the newsgroup is that it is a random mixture of
experience and naivety - always a good thing.
P.
--
§ § §
paddy eason
computer film company, london
+44 (0)20 7344 8000
mailto:pa...@cfc.co.uk
http://www.cfc.co.uk
> "So, laying eggs all your life and then getting stuffed and roasted,
> that's good enough for you, is it?"
> "It's a living."
Matt Daly
your part would have been to ask: Can anyone give me a garden - the budget
is only $500 (taking a cut for yourself, of course)
Then you would be done, and everyone would be happy.
-MD
Matt D. Leonard <anim...@ddv.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8lnn5l$g5g$3...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to get hold of a PaintEffects scene of a garden.
>
> I've seen some very nice images flying about the net but have never found
a
> Maya scene file that you can play with.
>
> I have to create a garden as part of a project I am working on and as it
> only pays $750.00 total I don't want to spend a week making a garden from
> scratch. So I was wondering if anyone know where I could get something I
> could us as a starting point. Or if anyone would be kind enough to give
me
> a scene they have made.
>
> Long shot I know but if you don't ask you don't get !
>
> Many, many thanks
>
Lino P. Stavole
What does it hurt if he was trying to get material that was given to him or
not copyrighted? He said exactly what it was going to be used for. Does it
matter if he is a professional or not? If he was trying to do a job for as
little money as possible shouldn't he use the same resources
non-professionals could use? I was just curious to see what other people's
opinions were on this subject. It sounds like the only thing he did wrong
was not bidding the job correctly not asking for advice or directions.
Any comments?
Su
money, and then go scrounging round the newsgroups asking for help (for free,
no less)
I find this sort of thing rather lame from the perspective of a client, and
really lame from the perspective of a vendor: If you were a client, would you
want the "artist" that you are paying $750 to to find your work on the
internet? This can expose a client to all sorts of legal problems, not to
mention ethical and probably aesthetic ones too. As a vendor, I find it
pathetic that people bid jobs this way. What ever happened to a fair price
for good work?
If you don't want to take the time to generate original work for the money the
client has to offer, then you should ask yourself why you took the job, and
perhaps, why you're in the business at all.
Feh.
Su.
Lino P. Stavole
said in the first place.....
(In a sweet innocent voice coming from a ninety year old lady)..
"Excuse me Mr.. Leonard. My church group only has 750 bucks to spend for
this quick and dirty garden scene. Is there anyway you can find it in your
heart to help us?" (with a few eye flutters and the rest)
I mean we really don't know what the whole story is. I've done close to
charity jobs for people who were willing and only able to settle for less.
My career is a little different. Take this story with a grain of salt. O.K?
Lets say someone comes up to me and they are an aspiring young filmmaker.
They want to film someone yanking out someone's still beating and blood
spurting heart. Normally to do this right I would sculpt, mold, cast, and
rig a custom rigged heart. However, the kid doesn't have a boat load of
money.
Number one, do I not do it and pass the opportunity to help someone who may
be able to help me? May be the next (I don't know) Tim Burton? May need to
learn a lesson? Is exactly where I was ten years ago? Well, I wouldn't,
that's just me.
I'd probably give them what I could. And if it means going to the store,
buying a shitty heart, repainting it, rigging it and teaching the kid how to
film it and edit it, or using a image someone gave me or isn't copyrighted,
then that's what it takes.
I think I would consider it an investment.
Any comments?
Nick Hatzichristos wrote in message <8lt6ti$apm$1...@newssrv.otenet.gr>...
>"Su" <am...@bake.org> wrote in message news:39821234...@bake.org...
>> I dunno. It seems like pretty bad business to agree to a job for x
amount
>of
>> money, and then go scrounging round the newsgroups asking for help (for
>free,
>> no less)
>
>You have to admit, that depends on what the "x" amount is.
>
>
>> I find this sort of thing rather lame from the perspective of a client,
>and
>> really lame from the perspective of a vendor: If you were a client,
would
>you
>> want the "artist" that you are paying $750 to to find your work on the
>> internet?
>
>Again, it depends. If I went to, say, a VFX pro and asked for $10,000 worth
>of VFX but was only willing to pay $500, then I should expect that the
>artist will do whatever it takes to make it easy on him/herself. It would
>take a large amount of nerve on my side to dare to complain about him
>getting some help from the internet or wherever.
>
>
>> This can expose a client to all sorts of legal problems, not to
>> mention ethical and probably aesthetic ones too.
>
>The legal stuff should be taken care of anyway - noone said anything about
>copyrighted material or something similar. As for aesthetics... I guess you
>(the client) get what you pay for.
>
>
>> As a vendor, I find it
>> pathetic that people bid jobs this way.
>
>Try to put things in perspective here. I 'm not saying I 'm right and you
>'re wrong, just asking you to re-consider. "Pathetic" is pretty heavy a
>word...
>
>
>> What ever happened to a fair price
>> for good work?
>
>Reality killed it, I think. Or at least severely wounded it. Not
everywhere,
>not always are things this romantic. There are times when you just have to
>get that stupid job, for that ridiculous fee - it doesn't mean that's the
>goal of your career, but it definitely is the means to an end - to put it
>another way, ethics and wishful thinking simply don't pay the rent.
>Fair price for good work... Unfortunately, there's many people - potential
>clients - out there who simply have no respect or appreciation for what you
>do, and so refuse to pay you what your good work is worth. If you start out
>your career by turning all of them down, you *may* soon not have much of a
>career to go on with. You have to compromise, especially when still
starting
>out.
>
>
>> If you don't want to take the time to generate original work for the
money
>the
>> client has to offer, then you should ask yourself why you took the job,
>and
>> perhaps, why you're in the business at all.
>
>You took the job because you had to. You took it because you know that you
>have to go through hard times to make it in the end. Most of all, you took
>that lousy-paying job, in order to some day be able to turn such
>lousy-paying jobs down.
>And you 're in the business to make it. Which, like I said earlier, will
>take some compromise along the way.
>
>
>I 'm a 3D animator. I 'm currently freelancing, in a country where 5 years
>ago you mentioned "3D" and people looked for holograms. My field is mainly
>FX animation, but I have done stupid flying-logo stuff for ridiculous fees,
>just because I had to. So, ok, I always try to do something good, even in
>those cases, but up to a point. I will never dedicate weeks, or lose sleep
>over such jobs. I will try to do my best within some boundaries. But when a
>decent client comes, then I try to *really* give the best I can, period.
>Because after all, I 'm doing what I love and someone acknowledges my
>efforts and appreciates them. And of course, that someone is also willing
to
>pay what the result is really worth.
>
>Anyway, I 've already said more than needed here (sorry, it happens all the
>time, I gotta quit that ; ). There's lots and lots of things to be said on
>this subject, but I 'll leave it for now. The point is, I try to put things
>in perspective, balance my dreaming and wishful thinking with a good dose
of
>reality, and try to be the best I can somewhere in between.
>
>I hope you don't get any of this the wrong way. It 's only meant as "food
>for thought", as they say.
>
>nick
>
>--
>
>
>
>Nick Hatzichristos
>3D Animator
>Visual FX & Post Production
>e-mail : ni...@otenet.gr
>ICQ# : 48636115
>http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx
>
>
>
>
Nick Hatzichristos
Nick Hatzichristos
news:1ypg5.9514$AL3.3...@news-west.usenetserver.com...
> Hey, I like food for thought. I mean there is no telling what his client
> said in the first place.....
>
> (In a sweet innocent voice coming from a ninety year old lady)..
> "Excuse me Mr.. Leonard. My church group only has 750 bucks to spend for
> this quick and dirty garden scene. Is there anyway you can find it in your
> heart to help us?" (with a few eye flutters and the rest)
>
> I mean we really don't know what the whole story is. I've done close to
> charity jobs for people who were willing and only able to settle for less.
> My career is a little different. Take this story with a grain of salt.
O.K?
>
> Lets say someone comes up to me and they are an aspiring young filmmaker.
> They want to film someone yanking out someone's still beating and blood
> spurting heart. Normally to do this right I would sculpt, mold, cast, and
> rig a custom rigged heart. However, the kid doesn't have a boat load of
> money.
>
> Number one, do I not do it and pass the opportunity to help someone who
may
> be able to help me? May be the next (I don't know) Tim Burton? May need to
> learn a lesson? Is exactly where I was ten years ago? Well, I wouldn't,
> that's just me.
Well that's an entirely different case - I fully agree with you there. That
is the way I see it too. I 've had similar scenarios happen to me, and I
never acted like "show me the money, or you 're getting nothing". And, to
use your story as my example, I 'm sure you agree that there can be times
when you won't just "buy a shitty heart, repaint it", etc, but you will give
the whole deal. The reasons can be too many to mention one by one, but I 'm
sure you know what I mean.
I 've done work for free, just because the "client" was a really open-minded
guy who had this urge to move forward but didn't know how to, or had the
needed money to spend. When I completed the project he was enthusiastic, and
just so happy that we had accomplished what we had. He 's now (2 years
later) a good friend and frequent client (of the paying kind) of mine. And
that is a real story.
In other (fewer) words : I totally agree with you on this. Especially your
last paragraph,
>
> I'd probably give them what I could. And if it means going to the store,
> buying a shitty heart, repainting it, rigging it and teaching the kid how
to
> film it and edit it, or using a image someone gave me or isn't
copyrighted,
> then that's what it takes.
The case is slightly different than what was being discussed, in that the
said kid would not really get paid to do the film, in fact, the kid would
not be a pro at all. But, your (theoretical ?) story shows your way of
thinking, which I believe has many common things with a few of the points I
tried to make in my previous post on this thread.
Su
underbidding jobs to get a portfolio together. (I got my career started over
ten years ago when myself and two friends got together and shot five short
films, finished them to video and film, and started winning film festivals. We
spent a lot of money- over $8000 each, but it paid off: one of us is a pretty
big commercial director, and one of us is a semi-famous FX supervisor. One of
us (not me) is still kind of a loser... but I digress)
What I see here doesn't look like that, though. This looks like "take the
money, and deliver whatever I can scrounge up, whether it came from the Maya
demo CD, or the work of someone less fortunate than me"
If you're going to pay your dues, you've gotta *pay* your dues. Presumably Mr.
Leonard had some discussions with the client about what the work would look
like before the struck a deal. It doesn't speak well for the client or the
vendor to just hand over some money and hope you like whatever the vendor can
find on the net!
As to the legal issue, if the vendor does not tell the client that he swiped
the material off the net, then the CLIENT is the one who will be held
responsible for the copyright infringement. (In this country, anyway)
I do agree that clients often suffer from a total misunderstanding of the skill
and talent necessary to do quality effects work, and that this often leads them
to accept bids that are obviously too low. This is an issue that has vexed
effects vendors and customers for years. It seems to be cyclical; some years
(the good ones) people insist on quality work, and are willing to pay for it.
Other times, studios attempt to bid down the price of fx work to ridiculous
levels. But then they get sick of having to accept shoddy work and they start
paying up again.
I have been lucky enough not to have to compromise too much along the way. I
get to work on good projects, and I keep my crew as well paid as I can, and
only do schlocky work when I feel like doing it. (And "x" has always been just
slightly above insulting! :)) I wish everyone here the same level of success
that I have enjoyed, and spend as much time as I do here because I really do
want to help people. The way that Matt is going about tackling his problem
is not the way that I would recommend doing things, in my experience. That's
all I'm trying to say. So I will shut up now!
At least the subject has steered the conversation here back to something better
than "If you like the f*in Phantom Menace more than the Matrix you suck dude!!"
Chris
Nick Hatzichristos wrote:
Matt D. Leonard
If I had known that my post was going to stir up such fuss I wouldn't have
posted it in the first place.
OK here's the story as so many of you are interested in speculation...
My client is a small production company who had a problem. They have taken
on a job that they realised they couldn't do and so they where in a jam. I
called them up on the off chance that they had any 3D/FX worked and though
the course of the conversation they told me about this project they were
working on which they couldn't finish.
The shot's were 1. to create a cliff top with thousands of people on, all
looking at a guy on the throne. 2. to create the Earth heating up and then
melting into space. 3. to create a huge walled garden and 4. to composite
some 3D and blue screen elements together.
Sounds great, nice interesting work. Beats logo stings !
Here's the catch, they only have $750.00 or £500.00 for all the work.
But they are now becoming interested in what our company can do for them,
they didn't realise you could create this kind of stuff. I know it's hard
to believe but not everyone lives, sleeps and breathes CG/FX like most of us
do. Also they are beginning to make noises about another jobs they have
coming up which may need 3D/FX now they know what can be achieved.
Now I have a problem, for the shots they described to me I would charge
£2500.00 or $3750.00 and their budget didn't come close BUT on the other
hand it sounded like they have more work coming though which has bigger
budgets. So I decided to take the work, make a small loss and impress the
pants off them !
So to PaintEffects,
all the time people are e-mailing the newsgroups asking for a model of this
or how do you create that, etc. and so I figured why not ask if anyone has
any PaintEffects scene I could use to try and speed my workflow up. I
figured if people didn't want to let me use their scene or any tutorials
they know about they wouldn't reply to my mail. Little did I know !
Because of all the fuss this whole mail has caused I have painted the damn
scene myself in a day and a half. (I will post it and the other shot's on
my web site in a week or two if anyone is interested.)
I'm sorry for all the hassle this has caused but I'm afraid I can't see what
I've done wrong. You lot can continue to talk about this for as long as you
want but in my mind I've made it clear what the story was and that's more
them most people would have done.
If anyone has any more problems directly with me please e-mail direct and
we'll talk about it in private.
Regards
Lino P. Stavole
posting something like this. Any reason for some intelligent conversation
among talented people is a good one:)
Matt D. Leonard wrote in message <8lubl2$osj$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>...
Nick Hatzichristos
> I myself appreciate the response and think that you shouldn't feel bad
about
> posting something like this. Any reason for some intelligent conversation
> among talented people is a good one:)
>
Exactly, the way I see it, this only resulted to an interesting exchange of
thoughts. No need for anyone to apologise on anything.