Titanic's Script
tyloghan
your thoughts were on the script? I really thought some of the lines were
lame, and really wish James Cameron had hired a writer. The whole "day
after suicide" talk along the deck really got on my nerves!!! I don't care
how good an actor or actress, with bad writing, it can't be pulled off.
And the love story.......it wasn't needed. The ship was all we needed.
Rach
news:Mek08.423$w67....@cletus.bright.net...
With out the love story it would have been a documentary???
JustTina
Welcome to the group! Not sure I agree with your comments about the script...or about Cameron needing to hire a writer. I thought he did a good job, considering how much he put into the film's production overall. And I really feel that the love story was important. They needed something to make people feel connected to the characters, fictional or otherwise. The love story helped to do that. As Rach said, without the love story, it would have been more of a documentary, and not nearly as good.
Take care. Tina.
tyloghan
meaningless. Jack was one fictional character out of 1500 REAL people who
died that night. I felt for them, not for some a couple of 1 dimensional
characters who never really existed. Besides that, what were the chances of
a 3rd class man hooking up with a first class snob? There's no way he could
have entered 1st class to go to dinner. That's part of my problem with the
script.
I loved TITANIC....the ship, you know what the movie was named after????????
JustTina
It is possible to feel for the victims of the real tragedy that this movie focuses on *and* the fictional characters as well. Your opinion is not wrong, as it is your opinion. But some people have different opinions. Many of us liked the fictional characters of Jack and Rose, no matter how "one dimensional" you seem to think they are. As for two people of different classes hooking up together....the chances might not have been good, but they were not impossible. Anything is possible, in film and in life, if you want it badly enough.
Take care. Tina.
tyloghan
live???? He obviously wanted to live - he was in looooove. Dumb dumb dumb
I felt more sorry for those poor dogs on the ship than I did for Jack and
Rose.
"JustTina" <artc...@defnet.com> wrote in message
news:u441tct...@corp.supernews.com...
JustTina
"If anything was possible if you want it enough, why the heck didn't Jack
live???? He obviously wanted to live - he was in looooove. Dumb dumb dumb
I felt more sorry for those poor dogs on the ship than I did for Jack and
Rose."
Jack didn't live because he wasn't supposed to live. It wasn't in the "lame" script, as you called it. The script would have truly been lame if it had ended with Jack living and then Jack and Rose living a happily ever after destiny together (besides the fact that the entire movie wouldn't have made sense then). My guess is that Cameron wanted Jack to die in order to show how real people were torn apart during the real tragedy. There weren't a lot of "happily ever afters" after the real Titanic's sinking. It doesn't matter if a character wants to live, if the script doesn't call for it. The whole story of Rose's life was meant to show that she had been changed by her brief time with Jack. That change was predicated on the fact that Jack died. Jack and Rose were symbolic of the many love stories that came to an end when spouses lost loved ones on Titanic. Their fictional story was based on very real tragedy and heartbreak. That you would feel more sorry for a few dogs than for the people who Jack and Rose stood for is very, very sad. But again, you are entitled to your opinion.
Take care. Tina.
tyloghan
"That you would feel more sorry for a few dogs than for the people who Jack
and Rose stood for is very, very sad."
That's right!!!! I tend to have more sympathy towards dogs than fictional
characters!!! What is so confusing about that???!!!!?????
JustTina
"That's right!!!! I tend to have more sympathy towards dogs than fictional
characters!!! What is so confusing about that???!!!!?????"
Hmmm. The newbie is quite hostile. Again, very sad.
The dogs in the movie were, um, film canines (i.e. actors), you know? They didn't *really* die. They were just as fictional as Jack and Rose! So who is really confused here? I have no problem differentiating between characters (like Jack and Rose) and real people. I didn't have sympathy for Jack and Rose, because they were *fictional,* as you are so fond of pointing out. I *felt* something when Jack died, but it was not sympathy for his character. It was a feeling based on the fact that this character represents lives that were actually lost on Titanic. And while it was sad that dogs did die on the actual ship, it is far more saddening to think of the loss of human life, which was much greater in scope and number.
Your gripes seem to be rooted in absolute hostility for some reason, and nothing more. In the words of a fictional Titanic character, "You find this sort of rootless existence appealing, do you?"
Take care. Tina.
Joe Sweeney
> I could have cared less about the Jack & Rose fling. It was silly and
> meaningless. Jack was one fictional character out of 1500 REAL people who
> died that night. I felt for them, not for some a couple of 1 dimensional
> characters who never really existed.
Hi tyloghan,
Jack was the face Cameron put on the tragedy. It's hard to feel sorry for
1500, but much easier to feel sorry for one you got to know along the way.
JMHO,
Joe
tyloghan
were plenty of stories out there you know!
"Joe Sweeney" <muad...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c423...@silver.truman.edu...
Rach
I dont really understand where you are coming from. The Jack and Rose love
was required. As their relationship got closer you as the viewer started to
get closer and understand the characters and the bond they shared. Therefore
when the ship sank you were able to see this relationship slowley fall to
peices and this created an impact for the viewer. Also the 1st class/3rd
class relationship allowed you to see both cultures aboard the ship. In way
Jack and Rose act as your eyses. Enabling you to see around the ship in a
way that had never been done before.This is why the story was required.
There are ways that a 3rd class member could have got into 1st class and I
thin the way it was done was pretty feasable.
As for your comment on fictional characters, well I think there would have
been so implications to using real characters as there were when using real
life crew characters.
We all love the ship Titanic, this is why we all love the movie so much. But
I can appreicate the movie for what it is. With out the story, it would have
been another documentary and if thats what you want Im sure you'll find
plenty of them on the discovery channel.
Rach
> If anything was possible if you want it enough, why the heck didn't Jack
> live???? He obviously wanted to live - he was in looooove. Dumb dumb
dumb
Please stop being an ingnoramus!
Rach
Great so lets create a movie, about Dogs aboard Titanic Im sure that will
really capture the audience. Get a grip!! As I have said there really would
have been serious implications about using real life people as
characters.Its a delicated situation. Using fictional characters is lot more
easier to get the point across.
tyloghan
portrayed REAL live beings. Thus, making a normal person feel the loss of
even canines.news:u449l94...@corp.supernews.com...
Take care. Tina.
What this boils down to is REAL people on that ship could have been
portrayed. Such as the Astors. We could have learned a bit about them,
felt their love and excitement for the new baby, felt Madeline's pain as
the Astor family, as well as society, shunned her. Not to mention how
horrific it would have been for her on that lifeboat and losing her husband.
I didn't need the sappy, horribly written love story of 2 characters I could
give a crap about. Clear now?????
Not to mention that terrible
script......................................YACK
tyloghan
Cameron????
"Rach" <ra...@madleofan.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1011009056.14447....@news.demon.co.uk...
Rach
> Like the Strauss' or Astors don't have any family that could enlighten
> Cameron????
But using real life characters has a LOT of implications.
JustTina
"As for your comment on fictional characters, well I think there would have
been so implications to using real characters as there were when using real
life crew characters."
Rach is right. If Cameron had used real characters to move the story along, instead of the fictional Jack and Rose, then there would have been too many limitations on the dramatic license that Cameron could have taken with their actions and movements about the ship. There were many places that Jack and Rose went to, many things that they were involved in, that the real Titanic characters did not do or go to. If Cameron had put real characters in all these situations, then many people (yourself included, I'm sure) would have been complaining even more about the authenticity of events. And besides, we don't know all the details of the true love stories that perished with the victims of Titanic. So Cameron would have had to make it all up anyway. And again, people would gripe about that. So it just makes more sense for him to have created the fictional Jack and Rose.
And the dog thing is just silly. The death of 1500 people is far more horrific and saddening then a few lost dogs. That's the bottom line. I've lost dogs before, and I've lost family members too. If I could bring any of them back, I'd bring back the family...the PEOPLE...not the dogs.
Take care. Tina.
tyloghan
feel like I've hit a brick wall with this. There were ways Cameron could
have shown the whole ship. The characters (real or not) wouldn't have had
to be every part of the movie.news:u46j0d2...@corp.supernews.com...
JustTina
"There were ways Cameron could have shown the whole ship. The characters (real or not) wouldn't have had to be every part of the movie."
So you're saying we could have seen the whole ship without seeing any characters? That's what they call a documentary, isn't it?
Take care. Tina.
Dave Tuttle
horrific and saddening then a few lost dogs. That's the bottom line. I've
lost dogs before, and I've lost family members too. If I could bring any of
them back, I'd bring back the family...the PEOPLE...not the dogs.
Take care. Tina.
I don't see the controversy here. Why even need dogs for the story? If you
need a REAL bitch, there's always Rose's mom.....
Dave
.
tyloghan
Tom Pappas
"A Night to Remember," and is based on Walter Lord's book of the same name.
It contains some factual inaccuracies that might be noticed by a Titanic
buff, and at least one of them (the ship sinking intact) is based on the
accepted view prior to the discovery of the wreck.
For the most part, the actors in ANTR are saying what their real
counterparts were quoted as saying, but the film is nonetheless as gripping
as you are likely to see, and it doesn't come off as a documentary at all.
One problem with Cameron's version is that some historic events are shown
out of context, without explanation, when very little would be necessary to
flesh out the real story of the real people. We see an old couple lying in
their bed as the rising waters swirl around them. While most people respond
emotionally to the scene (I did), probably no more than a handful in a
hundred knew that the couple depicted was Isador Straus (who owned - but did
not found - Macy's Department Store) and his wife Ida. Mr. Straus was
offered a place in a lifeboat, but declined, and his wife chose to accompany
him rather than saving herself.
If you can contrive more touching dialog than that, you win the prize.
I suspect that Cameron thought that showing Mrs. Straus's sacrifice would
make Rose look selfish and petty by contrast (she had to live, after all),
so he left out the explanatory scene. Another example of "painstaking
attention to detail - unless it gets in the way of studio profits."
--
"But this script can't sink!"
"She is made of irony, sir. She can, and she will."
"Rach" <ra...@madleofan.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1011036331.28671....@news.demon.co.uk...
chico
> GAWD, I can't get anything thru here!
Are you the former webbie that (according to Google) hangs out in
rec.arts.TV.soaps.cbs? So now you have a real computer and are learning to
be a troll, that's progress. As the others have said, you're entitled to
your opinion - and so are they. I didn't think soap opera fans were all that
concerned with real life, much less real history. So funny. Long-time webbie
can't get anything 'thru' here, you must be much smarter than those who knew
how to operate a computer while you were playing on the TV between soaps.
Stupid webbie becomes smart troll. Not! Killfile time.
Bill_Leary
> And Cameron couldn't have used a REAL person on that ship to do that?
There
> were plenty of stories out there you know!
Col. Archibald Gracie... real person... shown in movie... died.
Capt. Edward Smith... real person... shown in movie... died.
Loraine Allison... real person... shown in movie... died.
Thomas Andrews... real person... shown in movie... died.
Isadore and Ida Straus... real people... shown in movie... died.
Benjamin Guggenheim... real person... shown in movie... died.
Col. John Jacob Astor... real person... shown in movie... died.
Numerous nameless passengers... real persons... shown in movie... died.
Some of these people were shown up to the instant before their deaths.
Others were shown, and are known to have died, but their deaths were not on
film. Some others are shown dying, and some are shown dead.
- Bill
Kimberly Dickson
> There
> > were plenty of stories out there you know!
>
> Col. Archibald Gracie... real person... shown in movie... died.
Actually, he survived. He even published a book based on the Titanic
experience.
Kim
tyloghan
"Bill_Leary" <Bill_...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:OzO08.76478$Sj1.30...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
> " tyloghan" <tylo...@bright.net> wrote in message
> news:Fvz08.668$w67....@cletus.bright.net...
> > And Cameron couldn't have used a REAL person on that ship to do that?
> There
> > were plenty of stories out there you know!
>
> Col. Archibald Gracie... real person... shown in movie... died.
>
>
>
>
Hm....I thought he lived.....for awhile anyway
Rach
> GAWD, I can't get anything thru here!
Thats because your talking bullshit, to put it in a polite way!
tyloghan
know what it was like to be on the "other side". I wanted to have a little
fun and stir things up like I've seen other people do (here and other
groups). This was cooked up between another member here and me as a joke,
and I've been caught.
YUP, bought a computer (finally). If I offended anyone, I really apologize,
it was just a joke. I was going to "come out" in the next few days anyway,
but Chico caught me! 8-)
Sherri
formerly known as Justme628
"chico" <spam...@nospamland.com> wrote in message
news:3c43a...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
Bill_Leary
news:0pR08.102648$fe1.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I know. Trick entry.
I was wondering if our friend actually knew anything about the disaster or
not and would catch it. I suppose I should have added a note about that,
but I figured the regulars would know what I was doing. My mistake in that
I didn't think it through all the way to figure there might be others around
who aren't regulars but who DO know something about what happened.
- Bill
The FrankMan
Col. Gracie's book was written very shortly after his ordeal. Some
sources claim it was entitled "Titanic: A Survivors Story", while another
source (which I don't believe as much as the first) claims it was entitled
"The Truth About The Titanic". (Sorry I don't have the time to research it
further for you right now.)
In any case, Gracie himself never got to see it in print, sad to say. He
never even finished proofing his manuscript. He died of the after-effects
of the physical trauma he suffered on Titanic, on December 4, 1912, at his
ancestral home in New York, N.Y. He was the third survivor to die after the
Titanic sinking.
Cheers,
The FrankMan
Bill_Leary <Bill_...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:tCU08.76911$Sj1.30...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Bill_Leary
news:a21n6t$f7i$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> Col. Gracie's book was written very shortly after his ordeal. Some
> sources claim it was entitled "Titanic: A Survivors Story", while another
> source (which I don't believe as much as the first) claims it was entitled
> "The Truth About The Titanic". (Sorry I don't have the time to research
it
> further for you right now.)
I've got a copy of it under the second title.
> In any case, Gracie himself never got to see it in print, sad to say. He
> never even finished proofing his manuscript. He died of the after-effects
> of the physical trauma he suffered on Titanic, on December 4, 1912, at his
> ancestral home in New York, N.Y. He was the third survivor to die after
the
> Titanic sinking.
I knew it was "less than a year" but I don't think I ever knew the exact
date.
Thanks.
- Bill
Dave Tuttle
pretty well established habit of monikering his works with "The Truth About
(fill in the blank)" He was even hawking his most recent book during the
voyage, trying to get comment on it from Astor, Strauss, and the like.
Re-issues during the Titanic Mania period carried the latter title as more
marketable. The original title didn't confer the concept of the book being
an eyewitness account of one who had been there. There is also out in
paperback a combined volume containing both Gracie's and Jack Thayer's work
in one volume.
Dave Tuttle
The FrankMan <TheFr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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