Is it Port or Starboard
Andrew and Rebecca Hall
> In the movie, as the Titanic is about to collide the First Officer, Mr
> Murdoch orders the helmsman hard to 'starboard', the movie actually shows
> the helmsman turning the wheel to port. . . .
This scene in the movie has been recurring thread, both on this newsgroup
and on the newsgroup devoted to the ship itself (as opposed to the movie),
alt.history.ocean-liners.titanic.
There are differing opinions on this, but most of the available evidence
suggests that the scene in the movie is correct. Aboard British merchant
vessels (until 1933), steering orders were given as "helm orders," i.e.,
the way you would steer with a tiller. Thus, the command to turn the
ship quickly to port (left) would be "hard a-starboard," as shown in the
film. (And also as actually happened, as determined by the investigations
that followed -- the quartermaster at the wheel, Robert Hitchens, survived
the disaster.) After 1933, the analogous command would have been "left
full rudder!"
So the command is certainly correct. What about the quartermaster
turning the wheel to the left? That's probably correct, too, as all
the available resources we've been able to find, save one, indicate
that it was the command *only* that was "backward," and that the ship's
wheel, like the 17th-century whipstaff from which it evolved, worked
very much like a modern automobile's wheel -- turn left to go left.
The one exception to this is Walter Lord's "The Night Lives On," in which
he states very clearly that the wheel should have turned to the right.
With all due respect to Mr. Lord, I believe that he is mistaken, and
the other references (including John Harland's "Seamanship in the
Age of Sail") are more to be counted on in this specific instance.
> Did the helmsman actually make a huge error or have the film makers
> got it really screwed up.
To sum up, neither.
> Murdoch then calls the helm to Port with the engines in full reverse this
> would have the effect of moving the stern to the Port and thus avoiding the
> berg.
Murdoch told Captain Smith (when the latter arrived on the bridge) that
he'd been trying to "port around" the berg, that is, first to swing the
bow of the ship to port (which would cause the stern to swing out to
starboard), then reverse the rudder to swing the stern clear of the
obstacle. It was a common (if rather tricky) maneuver, but essential
if Murdoch was going to (as he thought) avoid damaging the ship either
fore or aft.
BUT reversing the engines had nothing to do with his maneuvering the
ship. He was trying to slow the ship -- any vessel has a tighter
turning radius at lower speed -- but Titanic had far too much momentum
for reversing the engines to have made any difference at all. Titanic's
big reciprocating engines were complicated beasts to throw into reverse
(as depicted very well in the movie, I thought), and there was not enough
time for their reversal to have any effect on the ship's motion through
the water -- she was probably still doing 22 knots when she hit the ice.
So please don't spend too much time on sorting out the interaction between
the engine and helm commands -- there wasn't any.
----------> Andy Hall
______________________________________________
What were their names, tell me,
What were their names?
Did you have a friend
On the good Reuben James?
Trevor & Ellen
It concerns an observation that I have made in the movie "TITANIC", I hope
that someone could direct me to a source to help resolve the problem that I
have encountered.
In the movie, as the Titanic is about to collide the First Officer, Mr
Murdoch orders the helmsman hard to 'starboard', the movie actually shows
the helmsman turning the wheel to port. The helmsman's actions are supported
by the accounts of the damage to the 'Titanic' down her starboard side. As
the iceberg scraps down the starboard side Murdoch then orders the helm hard
to Port in an attempt to move the stern away from the iceberg.
To my non nautical mind there appears to be a discrepancy with these orders.
Firstly the helmsman does not turn the wheel in the right direction and in
fact takes the ship to port, is this a simple mistake in the movie or is it
an actual account of the events that took place. Did the helmsman actually
make a huge error or have the film makers got it really screwed up.
Murdoch then calls the helm to Port with the engines in full reverse this
would have the effect of moving the stern to the Port and thus avoiding the
berg. Our intrepid helmsman then spins the wheel to starboard. At the time
Murdoch must have known the ship was turning to port so why would he call
for the helm to be turned to port
Based on this information I have a problem with the events that are depicted
in the film. So what is the truth surrounding the events and is there any
information that can be authenticated to resolve the issue. Or is it a case
of my lack of nautical understanding that has presented me with this
problem. or in fact did James Cameron deliberately right the script in this
way to see if anyone was really watching the what was happening on the
bridge that night.
I would be grateful if someone could enlighten me with any information that
they may have.
Trevor Greenham
e-mail t.l._e.j...@bigpond.com
10:37 am - 1st December 1998
Richard Hopkins
Trevor & Ellen wrote in message <36635...@139.134.5.33>...
>To my non nautical mind there appears to be a discrepancy with these
orders.
>Firstly the helmsman does not turn the wheel in the right direction and in
>fact takes the ship to port, is this a simple mistake in the movie or is it
>an actual account of the events that took place. Did the helmsman actually
>make a huge error or have the film makers got it really screwed up.
Neither. The helmsman acted as he was ordered to and the filmmakers
portrayed the incident accurately.
It does look confusing to a modern non-nautical audience though, although
explaining why might be harder than you'd think...
Imagine you're in a little sailing boat - no engine and no steering wheel -
just a tiller arm attached to the rudder for directional control.
If you want that little boat to turn *left*, you push the tiller arm to the
*right*, no?
This system of command was perpetuated long beyond the time steering wheels
were introduced to ships. Steering commands were given as though the ship
still had a tiller - thus an order to turn to starboard meant 'move the
tiller to the right'. The intention was for the ship to turn left (which, as
the steering now acted 'correctly' entailed turning the wheel
counter-clockwise). This is the convention portrayed in the movie.
This system was changed in the 1930's to reflect the fact that the tiller
was a thing of the past on large ships, and from then on an order to turn to
port would result in the ship turning - as one would expect - to the left.
Richard Hopkins,
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Send all my spam to: r...@totally.buggered.org
sk...@wam.umd.edu
From the IMDB: After the iceberg is spotted, First Officer Murdoch bellows a
helm order: "Hard-a-starboard!" But Quartermaster Hichens, manning the wheel,
turns the wheel counter-clockwise, or to port. At first glance this would
seem to be a mistake. The order itself, "Hard-a-starboard," was a holdover
from earlier days when the tiller of a ship would be used to control the
rudder. Pushing the tiller to the right (starboard) would cause the ship to
turn to the left (port). So a turn to port was ordered by calling
"hard-a-starboard." Sources differ on which way the wheel had to be turned to
actually carry out this order. Director James Cameron is on the record as
being aware of the possible confusion that turning the wheel in the "wrong"
direction might create, but decided to include it to be as accurate as
possible.
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Mandy
the Titanic really sank. The guy turned the wheel the wrong way!"
LOL
-Mandy
CDPETEE
In one of the Titanic books I have it says that up until the 1920's, the orders
for "hard-a port" or hard-a starboard" aboard ships were reversed (don't ask
me why). If the order was "hard-a starboard", the ship's wheel was indeed
turned to port, and vice-versa. Cameron didn't goof with that scene. The idea
was to turn right around the iceberg and then turn left so the stern would not
come in contact with it, kinda like driving around those orange cones in a
driving test.
Valerie and Scott
when a tiller was used to steer a small boat or, even farther back, some
ships...moving the tiller to the right (starboard) will move the rudder to the
left, causing a left turn...there is some debate as to whether the telemotor (the
thing the ship's wheel is attached to) on Titanic was set up to work that way, but
this explains the "hard a-starboard" command to turn to the left to attempt to
avoid the iceberg.
The Magnificent Todd K.
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Valerie and Scott wrote in message <367720E0...@mindspring.com>...
>This gets brought up all the time at alt.ocean-liners.titanic....it goes
back to
>when a tiller was used to steer a small boat or, even farther back, some
>ships...moving the tiller to the right (starboard) will move the rudder to
the
>left, causing a left turn...there is some debate as to whether the
telemotor (the
>thing the ship's wheel is attached to) on Titanic was set up to work that
way, but
>this explains the "hard a-starboard" command to turn to the left to attempt
to
>avoid the iceberg.
That's correct. I believe the term was called "indirect helm orders", if I
remember right. It was changed in 1928.
BRami10011
gives an excellent description
Chris Ramirez
A dark time is approaching
Willst thou run or fly ?
Willst thou sink or swim?
Willst thou finish or die trying?
And in the end
Willst thou soar? or willst thou suck ?
So go forth and kick ye some tail
Have ye what it takes?