Robert Harron

[Marta Dawes]

I've just been reading Lillian Gish's book, "Movies, Mr. Griffith and
Me," and in it she mentions that Robert Harron shot himself
accidentally. The IMDB says it was suicide, and I'm wondering which is
right (I have no faith in the IMDB). Does anyone have anyway to clarify
this?
--
Marta

[Bob Birchard]

Marta Dawes wrote:

Whatever the facts of the case (and I don't know them) Harron's Catholic
family clung to the idea that he accidentally shot himself--thus not barring
the door to heaven.

--
Bob Birchard
bbir...@earthlink.net
http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/Guest/birchard.htm

[Bobbyharron]

>Marta Dawes wrote:
>
>> I've just been reading Lillian Gish's book, "Movies, Mr. Griffith and
>> Me," and in it she mentions that Robert Harron shot himself
>> accidentally. The IMDB says it was suicide, and I'm wondering which is
>> right (I have no faith in the

>IMDB). Does anyone have anyway to clarify
>> this?
>> --
>> Marta

>
> Whatever the facts of the case (and I don't know them) Harron's Catholic
>family clung to the idea that he accidentally shot himself--thus not barring
>the door to heaven.
>

There is some discussion of Harron's death in the new biography Lillian Gish
Her Legend Her Life by Charles Affron. Affron says that Lillian wrote to a
friend that 'Bobby had been unpacking a trunk when a gun fell to the floor and
went off' (p.148) Another version of the story is that 'he bought the gun to
help out a man who needed money, left the gun in the pocket of a dinner jacket,
forgot about it, and in unpacking , the gun fell out.' (p.148). Affron writes
further that 'We will never know whether Harron's death was accidental or
self-inflicted' (p.149), but it seems to me that the accidental stories are so
unlikely that the balance of probabilities suggested that Harron. motivated by
his declining career and possibily the end of a romance with Dorothy Gish,
tragically committed suicide.

Pete George

[Precode]

In article <20011219150521...@mb-me.aol.com>, Bobbyharron says...

Has anyone seen a coroner's report or some other document that would reveal
where the bullet entered his body? If it was, say, through the stomach or back,
then we could pretty safely rule out suicide.

Mike S.

[Lloyd Fonvielle]

Bobbyharron wrote:

> There is some discussion of Harron's death in the new biography Lillian Gish
> Her Legend Her Life by Charles Affron. Affron says that Lillian wrote to a
> friend that 'Bobby had been unpacking a trunk when a gun fell to the floor and
> went off' (p.148) Another version of the story is that 'he bought the gun to
> help out a man who needed money, left the gun in the pocket of a dinner jacket,
> forgot about it, and in unpacking , the gun fell out.' (p.148). Affron writes
> further that 'We will never know whether Harron's death was accidental or
> self-inflicted' (p.149), but it seems to me that the accidental stories are so
> unlikely that the balance of probabilities suggested that Harron. motivated by
> his declining career and possibily the end of a romance with Dorothy Gish,
> tragically committed suicide.

If I remember correctly, the death also occurred the night before the New York
premiere of "Way Down East", in which Barthelmess played the boyish hero role that
Harron has always specialized in for Griffith.

[Frederica]

In article <e%7U7.4659$XC5....@www.newsranger.com>, Precode says...

>Has anyone seen a coroner's report or some other document that would reveal
>where the bullet entered his body? If it was, say, through the stomach or back,
>then we could pretty safely rule out suicide.
>
>Mike S.

Just yesterday I read an article in The Economist about teen suicides,
especially suicides of young men. The suicide rate goes way up in places where
there is easy access to guns. Harron certainly fits the profile. Young,
despondent, easy access to firearm...another one bites the dust.

I suspect that coroners at the time of Harron's death were sometimes
intentionally fuzzy on reporting a death as suicide if there was even an outside
possibility of it being an accident. Perhaps it was the idea that you might be
confirming the poor soul would go to hell, which would just add to the survivor
grief? (I don't think god would be fooled.)

Frederica

[Christopher Snowden]

Precode wrote:

>
> Has anyone seen a coroner's report or some other document that would reveal
> where the bullet entered his body? If it was, say, through the stomach or back,
> then we could pretty safely rule out suicide.
>

Hal Erickson says it was the left lung. Harron didn't die immediately, but
lingered in Bellevue Hospital for a few days. During that time, he reportedly swore
to a priest that it hadn't been a suicide attempt.

We can all draw our own conclusions. I've never believed the story about how
Harron had casually bought a loaded gun from some unknown person, forgot all about
it, then dropped it and was hit by a discharged bullet. But, for what it's worth,
the coroner did rule it an accidental shooting. And, contrary to legend, Harron's
career hadn't been all washed up at the time of his death: he had three films to go
on a four-picture deal with Metro.

I'd love to see the police report, assuming there was one. Were there powder
marks on his body when he was discovered? From what angle did the bullet enter his
body? If we knew the answers to those questions, we could make an educated guess
about whether it was an accident or not.

Chris Snowden
Unknown Video
http://www.unknownvideo.com
Featuring: Child Stars of the Silent Era
http://www.unknownvideo.com/photo.shtml

[Bob Birchard]

Christopher Snowden wrote:

> Precode wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anyone seen a coroner's report or some other document that would reveal
> > where the bullet entered his body? If it was, say, through the stomach or back,
> > then we could pretty safely rule out suicide.
> >
>
> Hal Erickson says it was the left lung. Harron didn't die immediately, but
> lingered in Bellevue Hospital for a few days. During that time, he reportedly swore
> to a priest that it hadn't been a suicide attempt.
>
> We can all draw our own conclusions. I've never believed the story about how
> Harron had casually bought a loaded gun from some unknown person, forgot all about
> it, then dropped it and was hit by a discharged bullet. But, for what it's worth,
> the coroner did rule it an accidental shooting. And, contrary to legend, Harron's
> career hadn't been all washed up at the time of his death: he had three films to go
> on a four-picture deal with Metro.
>
> I'd love to see the police report, assuming there was one. Were there powder
> marks on his body when he was discovered? From what angle did the bullet enter his
> body? If we knew the answers to those questions, we could make an educated guess
> about whether it was an accident or not.

I agree with Chris. I don't believe it is at all certain that Harron's career was
on the decline. On the contrary, the indicators are just the opposite. As Chris
mentions, Harron was working on a series for Metro release (however, these were really
D. W. Griffith productions on which the great director chose to remain
anonymous--similar to the Dorothy Gish series that Griffith produced for
Paramount--where the contract spelled out that Griffith's name was not to be
mentioned). Whether Harron would have fared well into the later 1920's is
problematic--he had a boyish quality that might not have aged well. But, on the other
hand, his brother John Harron managed to carve out a career of sorts for a number of
years based largely on the fact that he was Bobby's brother.

Left lung suggests to me that the heart may have been the target. This is
definitely a subject for further research.

[William Hooper]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:21:29 GMT, in article <3C218320...@earthlink.net>,
Bob Birchard stated...

I've got a shovel, but I'm way too far away.

[Frederica]

In article <fxhU7.5216$XC5....@www.newsranger.com>, William Hooper says...

>> Left lung suggests to me that the heart may have been the target. This is
>>definitely a subject for further research.
>
>
>I've got a shovel, but I'm way too far away.

This sounds like a job for Super Forensic Pathologist. Are the police reports
still available, or have they been purged? It's been a few years and the case
was closed.

Frederica

[RWilson963]

According to the contemporary news reports, the pistol fell from some clothing
to the floor and discharged, a bullet lodging in his chest.

[Frederica]

In article <20011220153254...@mb-fy.aol.com>, RWilson963 says...

>
>According to the contemporary news reports, the pistol fell from some clothing
>to the floor and discharged, a bullet lodging in his chest.

Yikes! I just noodled around on the web looking for various Harrons. The
whole durned family died young, what with car accidents and Spanish flu. Were
there any Harrons left after John died?

Frederica

[Lincoln Spector]

> Has anyone seen a coroner's report or some other document that would
reveal
> where the bullet entered his body? If it was, say, through the stomach or
back,
> then we could pretty safely rule out suicide.

Didn't the CIA at once insist that Salvadore Allende committed suicide by
shooting himself in the back with a machine gun, stopping only twice to
unload?

Lincoln

[Lincoln Spector]

> I've just been reading Lillian Gish's book, "Movies, Mr. Griffith and
> Me," and in it she mentions that Robert Harron shot himself
> accidentally. The IMDB says it was suicide, and I'm wondering which is
> right (I have no faith in the IMDB).

I don't have much faith in autobiographies, either. And as I recall (it's
been years since I read it), Gish's read very much like fiction.

Lincoln

[Bob Birchard]

Frederica wrote:

Oh, yes. I met a sister in the mid 1970's. She worked as a housekeeper in a
convent and was devoted to the memory of her brother.

[DShepFilm]

<< Were
> there any Harrons left after John died? >>

John has descendants, including a grandson who is in his late '30s and is very
enthusiastic about his ancestors' films.

Mae Marsh's three daughters did a film tribute to her at the Old Town Music
Hall on what would have been her 100th birthday and invited all of the sisters
and the cousins and the aunts. What a gene pool -- a hundred clones of Mae
Marsh!

Anyhow, they also invited the Harrons, also a strong family resemblance. I
thought it was quite touching.

David Shepard

[silenthi...@gmail.com]

In terms of Harron's death, I, not bragging but giving credence, was the organizer and main lecturer at MoMA for the 1993 Robert Harron Birth Centennial Festival. In preparation for that event, I was the one who gathered the proof that his death was not an 'accident.' I located the actual Death Certificate and Autopsy Report. My thesis for the tale of accident was for a number of reasons. 1. Griffith was very upset due to guilt. He sort of felt that his passing up Harron for Barthlemess in "Way Down East" deeply upset the guy who was well known to look at DW as a 'substitute father.' 2. Catholic Faith. DW knew well that such a death would have kept Bobby from being interred in a Catholic run cemetery and, thus, even upset the family even more. 3. Bad Publicity. Evil details around the film might lead to poor attendance. David desperately needed the $ in every sense of that term. Hence, keeping the death as an accident rather than scandal was better PR for the current flick. 4. New Aspect. While today, Hollywood is full of scandals, in those days, there really was no concept of Hollywood as we all have today. Thus, keeping things calm was a lot easier with no Hedda Hopper running around. That is because, without much of an exaggeration - this would easily be just about the very 1st Movie Star Scandal. 5. Easier manipulation. Due to the 'new' aspect of the movie colony and the only buck in town. Griffith was able to convince the locals to let him 'run the show.' In preparation for the lecture, I had numerous medical folks look the documents over and, with no exception, all deeply felt that given the size of the burn mark, the gun had to be held close to the body. Most of them also could not believe that a 'mere dropping of the gun' could ever cause the wound to be so close to the heart. One even told me, "The odds of winning a lottery would be better than having to make a bet on such a direct place for entry to ever accidentally happen." Furthermore, in conversations I had with Blanche Sweet and Lillian Gish on the topic (I knew them from being so often at MoMA over the years) both gave me denials of theory. However, Blanche was vague. Despite her quick talking over the many times we spoke. Her comment of the issue was negative but open - "I wasn't there, so I definitely don't know." Which served to lead me to think she had more than one conversation with many people at that time on Robert's death. Lillian, too, made a quick dismissal of the aspect but, I firmly felt, from her numerous earlier comments on things, that it was her way of being sure that 'family secrets' did not get mentioned to outsiders and start gossip. In terms of Mr. Harron definitely saying, “It was an accident,” I firmly feel that was a matter of regret. Afterall, how many of us claim ‘an accident’ when we do something planned that either goes wrong and or we regret the result? I am sure the reply would easily be 100%. If it was something that would really shame oneself and or the family, the response would probably be 110% for all. I also feel that he thought he would get well, don’t we all, and not actually think his talk to people, including a priest, would be the last. The Death Certificate and Autopsy records I obtained for the event are located at MoMA for anyone to read. Furthermore, though not documented, I had various medical people review them. With no exception, not one of them believed it was the result of an accident. The wound location, the size of the powder burn (see below), and the timing of it all easily brought them to the same conclusion I had. Granted, none of them would ‘sign a document’ as they could not really see the body but verbally not one of them disagreed with the concept I had. In terms of the powder burn, a few explained that had the gun just fallen to the floor, “Why would there even be a burn? Hitting the floor would have been would have easily been 5 feet away and or even sitting on the bed/chair would be 3+ feet from Harron’s body. Hence, I deeply hold the concept that the death was a suicide due to disappointment at being passed over for the main male role in “Way Down East.”