Zodiac Killer Silent film colector??
Spiritus
Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
film community.
There were mentions of a theater in L.A. on North Highlands Avenue
specializing in Silent film, which had a Zodiac Ceiling motif, and
which I suppose could only have been the Silent Movie theater though it
was not named and I have not been there so can not confirm for myself
the similarities.
The author interviews an Old Silent film Organist and film collector
and X-Cop, attached in some way to that theater, who had been close
friends with the prime suspect. Though there were allusions in the book
to the possibility that this Silent film collector was himself the
suspect, owing to the similarity of hand writing in hand lettered movie
posters done by him, and the Zodiac letters.
Both of these men also had connections to San Francisco where
apparently one or both of them had lived previous to moving to L.A.
The suspect was supposed to have a particular fondness for Gilbert and
Sullivan.
The identity of this/these persons should be fairly easy to deduce for
many who post here, though in the book of course pseudonyms were given.
And I do not know who they are.
I did not check the publication date of the book Zodiac, but if it
predated the Murder which took place at the Silent movie theater in
L.A. this would add an extremely intriguing twist to both stories.
My question is, has this book, and the identity of the silent film
collectors/prime Zodiac suspect, and the possibility that the Zodiac
Killer may be someone who posts here, been discussed here?
Was the murdered owner of the L.A. Silent movie theater the person who
the Author interviews in the book?
Is anyone willing to talk about this? I understand that it may well be
a delicate topic.
SP
Christopher Snowden
> I realize this may have been discussed when the book Zodiac by William
> Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
> intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
> it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
> film community.
I have a copy of "Zodiac," written by Robert Graysmith and first
published in 1976. I haven't read it in a long time and I don't really
remember the references you mention about a silent movie theater or film
collector.
However, there is something similar that you didn't mention. For those
of you unfamiliar with the case, the Zodiac was a serial killer who was
active in the late 1960s and early 1970s; he struck most often in the San
Francisco Bay area and was never apprehended. He sent taunting letters to
the press and the police, written in a very complex code, in which he
called himself "the Zodiac." Graysmith had been a reporter for a San
Francisco newspaper and kept tabs on the story over the years, even doing
some research on his own, trying to come up with a likely suspect.
One person he suspected as being the Zodiac he calls "Don Andrews"
(not his real name.) Without going into all the reasons why Graysmith
suspected the man, I'll just quote one little passage:
"I looked around (Andrews') spacious apartment with its movie posters
and film stills. He seemed to identify strongly with Oliver Hardy.
Everywhere, there were photos of Hardy without Stan Laurel." (page 301)
I'm not making this up!
In fairness, Graysmith ultimately felt that someone else was a more
likely suspect than this Hardy fan.
Chris Snowden
Unknown Video
Robert Birchard
> I realize this may have been discussed when the book Zodiac by William
> Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
> intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
> it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
> film community.
>
> There were mentions of a theater in L.A. on North Highlands Avenue
> specializing in Silent film, which had a Zodiac Ceiling motif, and
> which I suppose could only have been the Silent Movie theater though it
> was not named and I have not been there so can not confirm for myself
> the similarities.
He must be disguising the theaters as well as the names. I don't
recall any movie theaters on Highland, let alone one with a Zodiac ceiling
motif. The Silent Movie Theater on Fairfax had very plain brown
beaver-board paneling in the ceiling.
--
Bob Birchard
bbir...@earthlink.net
http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/Guest/birchard.htm
Stephen Cooke
On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Christopher Snowden wrote:
> Spiritus wrote:
>
> > I realize this may have been discussed when the book Zodiac by William
> > Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
> > intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
> > it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
> > film community.
>
> I have a copy of "Zodiac," written by Robert Graysmith and first
> published in 1976. I haven't read it in a long time and I don't really
> remember the references you mention about a silent movie theater or film
> collector.
>
> However, there is something similar that you didn't mention. For those
> of you unfamiliar with the case, the Zodiac was a serial killer who was
> active in the late 1960s and early 1970s; he struck most often in the San
> Francisco Bay area and was never apprehended. He sent taunting letters to
> the press and the police, written in a very complex code, in which he
> called himself "the Zodiac." Graysmith had been a reporter for a San
> Francisco newspaper and kept tabs on the story over the years, even doing
> some research on his own, trying to come up with a likely suspect.
>
> One person he suspected as being the Zodiac he calls "Don Andrews"
> (not his real name.) Without going into all the reasons why Graysmith
> suspected the man, I'll just quote one little passage:
>
> "I looked around (Andrews') spacious apartment with its movie posters
> and film stills. He seemed to identify strongly with Oliver Hardy.
> Everywhere, there were photos of Hardy without Stan Laurel." (page 301)
>
> I'm not making this up!
>
> In fairness, Graysmith ultimately felt that someone else was a more
> likely suspect than this Hardy fan.
A Snitz Edwards fan?
Fanning the flames,
Stephen
Spiritus
<unk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I have a copy of "Zodiac," written by Robert Graysmith and first
> published in 1976. I haven't read it in a long time and I don't really
> remember the references you mention about a silent movie theater or film
> collector.
>
So it was published considerably before the murder at the LA silent
theater, interesting, I wonder if the author is aware of that
subsequent development.
> There were mentions of a theater in L.A. on North Highlands Avenue
> specializing in Silent film, which had a Zodiac Ceiling motif, and
> which I suppose could only have been the Silent Movie theater though it
> was not named and I have not been there so can not confirm for myself
> the similarities.
He must be disguising the theaters as well as the names. I don't
recall any movie theaters on Highland, let alone one with a Zodiac
ceiling
motif. The Silent Movie Theater on Fairfax had very plain brown
beaver-board paneling in the ceiling.
Bob Birchard
Is it possible that in 1975 when the author must have been researching
the book the Ceiling was different? That the subsequent plain brown
wrapper had an obfuscatory purpose? Or in 1975 was the Silent movie
theater on Fairfax, in a different location? Did the owner of the
Silent movie theater have any conection to a theater in San Francisco?
The silent film collector in the book had hand lettered many movie
posters advertising films at this theater, so it must have been in
business for a while. The author also describes this collector as being
dressed in a black "leather jump suit" wearing dark rimmed glasses. In
the darkened theater he says the effect was similar to talking to a
"the giant floating head from the Wizard of Oz".
He also owned a print of "El Spectro Rojo" which had been a "Lost Film"
until found in 1974. The Zodiac had used "The Red Phantom" as a
pseudonym in one of his letters, and it was suggested he could have
gotten this name from the film, however as the film was little known
and lost until "74" this reinforced the idea that he was a silent film
collector. The author also connects this collector and his associate
(the suspect) to a theater in San Francisco. The suspect apparently
lived on Scott street in SF. Can anyone identify anyone who might fit
this description from around 1975?
It seems like an X-Cop, silent film Organist, film colector, associated
with a silent film theater, who apperantly dressed in a leather jump
suit, should not be too hard to identify.
The references to the suspects involved with Silent film collection is
in the last 2 or 3 chapters of the book where he reveals who the police
and various investigators believed to be the top 2 people who are
possibly the Zodiac Killer. These 2 suspects were narowed down out of
hundreds of suspects.
One of the more interesting coincidences involved with the Silent film
collector suspect, was that he quoted a Gilbert and Sullivan play (the
Mikado?) in which a main character is called the "Master Executioner"
lines from that character were quoted in the Zodiac letters. The
interesting part is that no Zodiac letters were received during a
production of that play in San Francisco by the amature Lime lighters
company. It was speculated that the Zodiac actually may have acted in
that production, or otherwise may have attended every showing. The
police took this so seriously that they staked out a subsequent
production of that play to see if they could spot him in the audience.
SP
Glamour Studios
Archie Waugh
Stephen Cooke wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2000, Christopher Snowden wrote:
>
> > Spiritus wrote:
> >
> > > I realize this may have been discussed when the book Zodiac by William
> > > Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
> > > intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
> > > it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
> > > film community.
> >
> > I have a copy of "Zodiac," written by Robert Graysmith and first
> > published in 1976. I haven't read it in a long time and I don't really
> > remember the references you mention about a silent movie theater or film
> > collector.
> >
William Hooper
>posts here,
Ladies & gentlemen, the killer is ... in this very room!
[Blackout, screams, 'Night On Bald Mountain' up & under]
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Spiritus
> Hi-
>
> First of all, I can help you out with something: There is no more
> mystery surrounding the name of the suspect in the Zodiac case who was
> associated with the silent film theater in L.A. He was Richard
> Marshall, and his name has been public for a while. (You can read about
> the case at www.zodiackiller.com or members.aol.com/jakewark. Both are
> excellent.)
>
> I have a question. El Spectre Rojo was re-discovered in 1974. Can
> anyone tell me when in 1974? The last authentic Zodiac letter was
> posted on July 8, 1974. Did the public announcement about the re-
> discovery precede that date? Was it immediately prior to that date
> (i.e., could it possibly have bene in the news around that time?)?
>
> MIKE
>
Thanks very much for that info.
I believe the rediscovery date of El Spectro Rojo with regard to the
last authentic Zodiac letter "I'm Back" was gone over in the book
Zodiac. He must have addressed this issue in order to make the point of
the conection. However I do not recall a particular date apart from the
year.
SP
dt3...@aol.com
First of all, I can help you out with something: There is no more
mystery surrounding the name of the suspect in the Zodiac case who was
associated with the silent film theater in L.A. He was Richard
Marshall, and his name has been public for a while. (You can read about
the case at www.zodiackiller.com or members.aol.com/jakewark. Both are
excellent.)
I have a question. El Spectre Rojo was re-discovered in 1974. Can
anyone tell me when in 1974? The last authentic Zodiac letter was
posted on July 8, 1974. Did the public announcement about the re-
discovery precede that date? Was it immediately prior to that date
(i.e., could it possibly have bene in the news around that time?)?
MIKE
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Glamour Studios
Last Warning!
Archie Waugh
(at least I may get to put the squeeze on Laura LaPlante!)
Robert Birchard
> Is it possible that in 1975 when the author must have been researching
> the book the Ceiling was different?
No.
> That the subsequent plain brown
> wrapper had an obfuscatory purpose?
No
> Or in 1975 was the Silent movie
> theater on Fairfax, in a different location?
No
> Did the owner of the
> Silent movie theater have any conection to a theater in San Francisco?
Not the then-current owners, no
Richard M Roberts
>
> In article <38DF8F24...@earthlink.net>, Christopher Snowden
> <unk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > published in 1976. I haven't read it in a long time and I don't really
> > remember the references you mention about a silent movie theater or film
> > collector.
> >
> So it was published considerably before the murder at the LA silent
> theater, interesting, I wonder if the author is aware of that
> subsequent development.
>
> > There were mentions of a theater in L.A. on North Highlands Avenue
> > specializing in Silent film, which had a Zodiac Ceiling motif, and
> > which I suppose could only have been the Silent Movie theater though it
> > was not named and I have not been there so can not confirm for myself
> > the similarities.
>
> There was never a Silent Movie Theater on North Highland Ave in Los Angeles, the only movie oriented thing ever on Highland Ave in my memory was the Hollywood Film Exchange.
>
> Is it possible that in 1975 when the author must have been researching
> the book the Ceiling was different? That the subsequent plain brown
> wrapper had an obfuscatory purpose? Or in 1975 was the Silent movie
> theater on Fairfax, in a different location? Did the owner of the
> Silent movie theater have any conection to a theater in San Francisco?
>
The Silent Movie Theater has, for it's entire existence(since 1945),
been on Fairfax, it never had anything else on it's ceiling except dust,
and all I remember John Hampton wearing was checked sportcoats and the
occasional brown leather air force jacket.
> The silent film collector in the book had hand lettered many movie
> posters advertising films at this theater, so it must have been in
> business for a while. The author also describes this collector as being
> dressed in a black "leather jump suit" wearing dark rimmed glasses. In
> the darkened theater he says the effect was similar to talking to a
> "the giant floating head from the Wizard of Oz".
>
> He also owned a print of "El Spectro Rojo" which had been a "Lost Film"
> until found in 1974. The Zodiac had used "The Red Phantom" as a
> pseudonym in one of his letters, and it was suggested he could have
> gotten this name from the film, however as the film was little known
> and lost until "74" this reinforced the idea that he was a silent film
> collector.
EL ESPECTRO ROJO was rediscovered by a collector in Southern California
in the early seventies, and was made available in 16mm by Tom Dunnahoo
of Thunderbird Films. I wonder about the translation abilities of the
author or the police because the film;s spanish title translates as "the
Red Spectre", not "The Red Phantom".
The author also connects this collector and his associate
> (the suspect) to a theater in San Francisco. The suspect apparently
> lived on Scott street in SF. Can anyone identify anyone who might fit
> this description from around 1975?
>
> It seems like an X-Cop, silent film Organist, film colector, associated
> with a silent film theater, who apperantly dressed in a leather jump
> suit, should not be too hard to identify.
>
> The references to the suspects involved with Silent film collection is
> in the last 2 or 3 chapters of the book where he reveals who the police
> and various investigators believed to be the top 2 people who are
> possibly the Zodiac Killer. These 2 suspects were narowed down out of
> hundreds of suspects.
>
> One of the more interesting coincidences involved with the Silent film
> collector suspect, was that he quoted a Gilbert and Sullivan play (the
> Mikado?) in which a main character is called the "Master Executioner"
> lines from that character were quoted in the Zodiac letters. The
> interesting part is that no Zodiac letters were received during a
> production of that play in San Francisco by the amature Lime lighters
> company. It was speculated that the Zodiac actually may have acted in
> that production, or otherwise may have attended every showing. The
> police took this so seriously that they staked out a subsequent
> production of that play to see if they could spot him in the audience.
>
Again, I'm marvelling at this connection, since the character in G & S's
THE MIKADO is called "the Lord High Executioner", not the "Master
Executioner". Sounds like the author of the book has the research
deficit and factual error ratio of an Andy Edmonds.
I also think we should tread very carefully in trying to point fingers
at anyone who may or may not post on this newsgroup. This is the kind of
viscious rumor mongering that is the worst aspect of internet
newsgroups.Whomever this collector from the seventies may or may not be,
he seems to have been cleared by the police. And besides, if the Zodiac
Killer was lurking out there on alt.movies.silent, you wanna piss him
off?
RICHARD M ROBERTS
P.S. I think it was Raymond Rohauer.
ChaneyFan
>posts here,
Someone with the smarts to commit murder and remain at large for 25+ years is
probably far above the intellectual level of all of us in *this* newsgroup!
:-)
(With the possible exception of Oksana and Greta. Hmmmmmmmmmm.........)
===============================
Jon Mirsalis
e-mail: Chan...@aol.com
Lon Chaney Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan
Jon's Film Sites: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan/jonfilm.htm
Glamour Studios
even now I am plotting...uh...nevermind.
Archie Waugh
dt3...@aol.com
It is generally accepted that the April 1978 "Zodiac" letter was a
forgery. The last undisputed Zodiac letter was posted on 7/8/74 and
represented Zodiac's final communication with the public. Thus the
issue of when "El Spectre Rojo" was in the news (i.e., the 7/8/74
letter was signed "The Red Phantom") might be of some interest in
determining the origin on Zodiac's "Red Phantom" signature. A
curiousity, to be sure... ;)
pre...@my-deja.com
William Hooper <w...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >and the possibility that the Zodiac Killer may be someone who
> >posts here,
>
>
> [Blackout, screams, 'Night On Bald Mountain' up & under]
>
Lights up. There is a body on the floor with a huge knife in its back.
CHARLIE CHAN: Touch nothing.
Mike S.
bar...@bellatlantic.net
> in the early seventies, and was made available in 16mm by Tom Dunnahoo
> of Thunderbird Films. I wonder about the translation abilities of the
> author or the police because the film;s spanish title translates as "the
> Red Spectre", not "The Red Phantom".
What year was THE RED SPECTRE originally released? I believe a clip from
it is presented in the HOLLYWOOD series, which dates it about 1907. Is
this correct?
MATT BARRY
Richard M Roberts
>
> > EL ESPECTRO ROJO was rediscovered by a collector in Southern California
> > in the early seventies, and was made available in 16mm by Tom Dunnahoo
> > of Thunderbird Films. I wonder about the translation abilities of the
> > author or the police because the film;s spanish title translates as "the
> > Red Spectre", not "The Red Phantom".
>
> it is presented in the HOLLYWOOD series, which dates it about 1907. Is
> this correct?
>
> MATT BARRY
I believe it is a Pathe Frere's film from 1905, and Gaston Velles was
the director.
RICHARD M ROBERTS
Spiritus
<repro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>This has to be the strangest thread ever posted on alt.movies.silent.
I have not read the book "Zodiac", nor particularly want to, but from
the "facts" you are attempting to quote from it, I can't say the
research seems too terribly accurate.
Because you have not read the book, your estimation of the inaccuracy
of the "facts" is itself slanted by a rather easily explained
misapprehension and conclusion you have drawn about the book from what
is after all a newsgroup posting.
Please remember "I" am not the author of the book, I am simply someone
who read the book, found some facts to be interesting, and posted them
here. It seems obvious to me that someone doing this is likely
"paraphrasing" unless they put something in quotes, and so neither the
book nor it's author nor their level of spotless accuracy in their
research can be judged simply by reading a posting from a reader in a
news group. Of course I do try to be as accurate as possible, but give
us a break here R.R. Please also note that none of the inaccuracies
that you pointed out change the meaning of the story one bit, so you
see, neither was I trying to shift the meaning of the "Facts" by
changing the wording, it was simply oversight.
> EL ESPECTRO ROJO was rediscovered by a collector in Southern California
> in the early seventies, and was made available in 16mm by Tom Dunnahoo
> of Thunderbird Films. I wonder about the translation abilities of the
> author or the police because the film;s spanish title translates as "the
> Red Spectre", not "The Red Phantom".
This was the "Zodiac Killers" translation (if he even got the name from
that film, which was simply a speculation by various investigators in
the SFPD at the time) I don't think the Zodiac Killer ever claimed to
be a Spanish English translator.
Anyway in my estimation there's not a great deal of difference between
a "Spectre" and a "Phantom", but the point is that it WAS the Zodiacs
translation, not sloppy translation by the SFPD, the author, or anyone
else.
> > One of the more interesting coincidences involved with the Silent film
> > collector suspect, was that he quoted a Gilbert and Sullivan play (the
> > Mikado?) in which a main character is called the "Master Executioner"
> > lines from that character were quoted in the Zodiac letters. The
> > interesting part is that no Zodiac letters were received during a
> > production of that play in San Francisco by the amature Lime lighters
> > company. It was speculated that the Zodiac actually may have acted in
> > that production, or otherwise may have attended every showing. The
> > police took this so seriously that they staked out a subsequent
> > production of that play to see if they could spot him in the audience.
> >
>
> Again, I'm marvelling at this connection, since the character in G & S's
> THE MIKADO is called "the Lord High Executioner", not the "Master
> Executioner". Sounds like the author of the book has the research
> deficit and factual error ratio of an Andy Edmonds.
No, that was my mistake, unlike the Zodiac, I am not a G & S fan,
unlike the Author who's research took him years to compile, I am only
writing a post to a news group, so I figured "Master Executioner" was
close enough. You will notice that I put a "?" next to the name of the
play "Mikado" which I intended to show that I was not even sure of the
name of the play, or it's spelling. Obviously the Author and the SFPD,
WERE sure of the play, it's spelling, and the fact that the characters
name was "the Lord High Executioner" The Zodiac knew all of these
things too. It was all in the book, I just didn't remember it properly.
> I also think we should tread very carefully in trying to point fingers
> at anyone who may or may not post on this newsgroup. This is the kind of
> viscious rumor mongering that is the worst aspect of internet
> newsgroups.Whomever this collector from the seventies may or may not be,
> he seems to have been cleared by the police. And besides, if the Zodiac
> Killer was lurking out there on alt.movies.silent, you wanna piss him
> off?
He has NOT been cleared by the police and is still considered a prime
suspect. The case is still active and open.
You say "we should tread very carefully in trying to point fingers"
then in the next sentence you say "This" "is the kind of vicious rumor
mongering that is the worst aspect of the Internet" By "This" you
apparently mean my posting.
Rumor mongering is indeed a bad thing. This however is not rumor
mongering. These are FACTS, straight from the SFPD, if they impute
someone, then so be it, perhaps he deserves to be imputed for killing
between 7 and 30 people.
If you don't think it is at least intriguing that someone in the Silent
Film collector community may be the Freeking Zodiac Killer, then I just
don't know R.R. Personally I think it's pretty damned interesting.
By the way the location of the theater may have been disguised on
purpose in the book to protect "the innocent" as were many of the
names.
SP
Spiritus
> Hi-
>
> It is generally accepted that the April 1978 "Zodiac" letter was a
> forgery. The last undisputed Zodiac letter was posted on 7/8/74 and
> represented Zodiac's final communication with the public. Thus the
> issue of when "El Spectre Rojo" was in the news (i.e., the 7/8/74
> letter was signed "The Red Phantom") might be of some interest in
> determining the origin on Zodiac's "Red Phantom" signature. A
> curiousity, to be sure... ;)
>
> MIKE
>
>
The implication that the last Zodiac letter was forged came out of
"Tales of the City" which was being published at the time. There were
many thinly veiled characters in "Tales" who were real people. The main
Zodiac investigator, had as a joke sent a couple of fan letters to
Maupin, fan letters of the "character" who was obviously the
investigator himself. Maupin blew this out of proportion, and he and
his publicist accused the investigator of "Forging" fan letters. (this
was presumably done by Maupin for publicity) This Forging accusation
happened at the same time as the last Zodiac letter was received. It
was quickly assumed that if the investigator would "Forge" fan letters,
he would also forge a Zodiac letter to bolster his own importance.
He was dismissed from his position as head investigator in Homicide,
and transferred to "Pawn shop" detail. His entire reputation and career
were destroyed.
Why?
Because he wrote fan letters to a character in a fictional serialized
story as a joke. The author of that story, Maupin who obviously had
enough of a sense of humor to realize the intention of the 2 letters,
decided that some publicity was worth ruining a mans career and life,
by accusing him of forgery.
The primary handwriting expert who had worked on the Zodiac case from
the beginning (in other words nearly a decade) said that the last
Zodiac letter was certainly genuine.
After the SFPD ruined the main investigator over this allegation of
forgery, naturally they inclined to stick with the story, if not, then
it would be clear they had ruined the man for nothing.
The primary Zodiac handwriting expert was so angry over this he refused
to ever work on any case with the SFPD ever again.
Makes you think he just "might" have thought the letter was real
doesn't it?
SP
Christopher Snowden
skimmed through my copy of the "Zodiac" book, and looked at the very
interesting website at www.zodiackiller.com, and now I've learned a thing
or two, and realized a thing or two.
The film collector and Zodiac suspect, "Don Andrews" in the book, is
identified on the website as Richard Marshall.
When I saw that, I did a double take. I've met the guy!
The Robert Graysmith book gives the suggestion that Marshall worked
at John Hampton's Silent Movie Theater. He might have worked there briefly,
but the truth is that Marshall worked at the Avenue Theater in San
Francisco, which as many of you know was a showcase for silents in the Bay
Area. The website states that he was working at an unnamed "silent movie
theater in the Bay Area at the time Zodiac sent his 'Red Phantom' letter in
July 1974." Bob Vaughn, who played the organ for screenings at the Avenue,
has confirmed for me that Marshall worked there.
The book makes several mentions of the hand-lettered movie posters the
Avenue displayed, theorizing that the Zodiac suspect wrote them himself.
I've seen a bunch of those at Bob's house.
It was also at Bob's house that I met Richard Marshall. It wasn't that
long ago, maybe a year or so. I showed up at Bob's to record a musical
score for a silent video, and found that he had a houseguest. The man was
old, maybe 70 or 75, and he was ailing with Parkinson's Disease or
something similar. Bob introduced me to him and after our recording session
we all had a chat.
Marshall had been a serious collector of silent films, and had managed
to turn up a few nitrate prints over the years. The only title I remember
was a Gene Gauntier three-reeler, "For Ireland's Sake," which he had long
since donated to one of the major archives, along with the rest of his
collection, he said. (Was he the guy that turned up "El Spectro Rojo"? I
don't know.) He talked about the different theaters around the Bay Area,
and of finding a box of 1950s-era film in one of them, but he didn't say
anything that struck me as bizarre or suspicious. In all honesty, he seemed
to be a bit of a strange person, but I chalked that up to age and illness.
He certainly didn't seem like any kind of a murder suspect.
((Spiritus wrote:))
> I realize this may have been discussed when the book Zodiac by William
> Graysmith first came out. But I just read it and was not a little
> intrigued by the development in that investigation, which had as one of
> it's top 2 suspects for the Zodiac, someone connected with the silent
> film community.
>
> There were mentions of a theater in L.A. on North Highlands Avenue
> specializing in Silent film, which had a Zodiac Ceiling motif, and
> which I suppose could only have been the Silent Movie theater though it
> was not named and I have not been there so can not confirm for myself
> the similarities.
>
> The author interviews an Old Silent film Organist and film collector
> and X-Cop, attached in some way to that theater, who had been close
> friends with the prime suspect.
>
Graysmith calls this friend "Marvin Bernell." I don't know who this
person is, but he is depicted as being a film collector, an ex-cop, an
organist, sixtyish, with a near-Barrymore profile, living near Riverside.
The Zodiac suspect worked for him in Bernell's theater.
Here is where we've gotten stuck. Graysmith implies that the theater
is John Hampton's Silent Movie, but I wonder if it isn't actually the
Avenue Theater instead, even though Bernell is quoted as saying, "we had a
zodiac ceiling in our old theater in L.A." The Avenue was way before my
time, so I don't know if that was the decor there or not.
One theory about this Zodiac suspect was that he'd saved a few
souvenirs from two or three of his killings, and may have shot film footage
of one as well. The theory (first put forward by an unidentified tipster)
is that this suspect sealed it all in a 35mm film can marked "Do Not Open--
Nitrate Film-- Danger." In the book, Bernell says that the suspect gave him
such a can for safekeeping, but took it back some time later. The tipster
said that the can was booby-trapped to explode if opened.
I really don't know how Richard Marshall came to be pegged as a
suspect in the first place, and I'm not suggesting that he is in fact the
Zodiac. He may actually have been that homicidal maniac... or he may have
just been an oddball film buff who simply attracted the attention of
overly-suspicious people.
For an old photo of Richard Marshall, with police sketches of the
Zodiac, check out www.zodiackiller.com/SuspectMarshall/html. In the photo,
he's working on what looks to me like an electronic organ, with its back
cover removed. You'll also see a list of some of the reasons why Marshall
is a suspect. Graysmith's book gives a lot more.
However, Graysmith believes that another suspect, now deceased, was
more likely the true Zodiac. He has written another book along those lines
that will be published in the near future.
He's done a good job, but I think the Zodiac hunters could use a Bruce
Long!
Chris Snowden
Unknown Video
Steven Rowe
>information regarding the silent film industry, but you state that
>someone here might be the infamous Zodiac Killer, a comment that does
>nothing but stir up suspicion and emotion.
Gee, I thought the comment did nothing but stir up laughter and jokes. I don't
think anyone here found his comment that one of us here is the famous Zodiac
Killer particuarly believable.
Steven Rowe (east coast kind of guy)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------
Don't forget to Delete "Unspam" if you wish to e- mail me.
join the FelixTheCat list at www.onelist.com
.
eric stott
Myself I don't care much about the Zodiac Killer- I don't care much
about the Zodiac at all, except in the Anna Mae Wong film "When were you
born?" or the Horoscopes in "13 Women"
Give me a Calendar Girl Anytime!
Eric Stott
Spiritus
<o_fo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
Well I see that like Richard, (though you are vastly worse, I don't
think Richard had the outright intent that you have) you are the sort
of person who enjoys jumping in and flaming people with ugly hostility
filled accusations.
To paraphrase Richard, "This is one of the worst things about the
Internet" Only my opinion, anyway you can keep your ugliness and
hostility to yourself, I don't want it.
Don't bother responding, you are already KillFiled.
SP
> In article <280320001820439815%spir...@sanctus.org>,
> Spiritus <spir...@sanctus.org> wrote:
> > In article <38E00D...@earthlink.net>, Richard M Roberts
> > <repro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >This has to be the strangest thread ever posted on alt.movies.silent.
> > >I have not read the book "Zodiac", nor particularly want to, but from
> > >the "facts" you are attempting to quote from it, I can't say the
> > >research seems too terribly accurate.
> >
> > Because you have not read the book, your estimation of the inaccuracy
> > of the "facts" is itself slanted by a rather easily explained
> > misapprehension and conclusion you have drawn about the book from what
> > is after all a newsgroup posting.
>
> This is all so blatantly sensational and transparent that your comments
> to Richard Roberts are simply incomprehensible. You come to the group
> asking for information from newsgroup participants when all you give
> them is your paraphrasing of a book, paraphrasing you now admit is
> inaccurate, to boot. Not only do you probe clumsily for insider
> information regarding the silent film industry, but you state that
> someone here might be the infamous Zodiac Killer, a comment that does
> nothing but stir up suspicion and emotion. Let's add to all this your
> naive belief that all the facts presented in the book you cite are
> completely true. What do you get? An excited fanboy out to do some
> sloppy "reasearch" of his own, hoping to stumble across the Zodiac
> Killer on the Internet and become famous, or someone who is just trying
> to create a little mischief. Either way, it's not someone who should be
> throwing stones at another poster because they express disbelief in your
> outrageous claims.
>
> Roberts simply was pointing out some serious factual errors, and just
> because you dismiss them (probably because they don't fit into your
> narrow view of the situation) doesn't make them any less accurate or
> important.
>
> --Ollie
norm...@pacbell.net
him when he came to work at KTIM, where I was employed as an announcer. It
is patently absurd that he would have any connection to any kind of mayhem.
I know him as a kind, generous, somewhat disheveled man--on the order of
the Professor in the"Back To The Future" pictures. He maintained 16/35mm
monochrome lab facilities in the various places he resided, starting with
the Scott street place which was a garage rather than a basement. He
sacrificed virtually all the amenities most of us demand in our lives to
finance his film obsession. That is what caused him to be regarded as
eccentric. He is indeed responsible for the recovery of "For Ireland's
Sake" (I have a print that he made for me.) and other early films.
However, the Avenue Theater did indeed have a Zodiac design on the ceiling
around the chandelier. The cops must have made a list of everyone who
worked there or attended the popular screenings in the '70s and early '80s.
(I wonder if I was ever on the list.)
Bob Vaughn is now retired to Fresno to be near family members.
Richard Marshall, in straightened circumstances, and, as observed, beset
with Parkinson's as well as a couple of artificial shoulder joints,
continues to spend most of his meager income on his film projects.
The URL mentioned for his photo is incorrect and I am not going to correct
it. But the photo there appears to have been taken in the Avenue days. What
Richard is working on is the Avenue's Wurlitzer relay, not an electronic
organ.
Norm Lehfeldt (Known as Norm Howard on KQED-FM, San Francisco.)
Christopher Snowden <unk...@earthlink.net> wrotf:
Richard M Roberts
>
> In article <8bruh8$ktj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Olivia Fortuna
> <o_fo...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> Well I see that like Richard, (though you are vastly worse, I don't
> think Richard had the outright intent that you have) you are the sort
> of person who enjoys jumping in and flaming people with ugly hostility
> filled accusations.
This coming from somebody trying to accuse someone else of being the
Zodiac Killer, and spreading it about on the internet.Can dish it out
but can't take it, eh?
> To paraphrase Richard, "This is one of the worst things about the
> Internet" Only my opinion, anyway you can keep your ugliness and
> hostility to yourself, I don't want it.
> Don't bother responding, you are already KillFiled.
>
> SP
>
Also, to answer your previous response to my response to your original
post. I agree with Olivia. I do not know this Richard Marshall, but he
has not been charged with anything, and even the author of this book you
are discussing appears not to think of him as a major suspect. I
subscribe to this annoying to some concept about innocent until proven
guilty, and I can imagine that having been a suspect in this kind of
thing would cause Mr Marshall a lot of personal pain. I find your
attempts to dredge up this thing again among the community he is a part
of to be tasteless and wrong,and the fact that you do not even post your
own name behind this rumormongering to be irresponsible and cowardly.
Killfile yourself while your at it.
RICHARD M ROBERTS
RICHARD M ROBERTS
ChaneyFan
Bernell is quoted as saying, "we had a zodiac ceiling in our old theater in
L.A." The Avenue was way before my time, so I don't know if that was the decor
there or not.
It's been years since I was in there, but this clearly could fit the
description of the Avenue, which was an old movie house dating back probably to
the early 30's. Not a "movie palace," but a typical, moderately opulent
neighborhood theater. I believe it is still standing but is now used as a
church. It is off the Silver Ave exit off 101 a few miles south of downtown
San Francisco.
>>>I really don't know how Richard Marshall came to be pegged as a
suspect in the first place, and I'm not suggesting that he is in fact the
Zodiac.
I dealt a bit with Rick Marshall in the early 80's and if you met him you would
find the idea of him being a killer completely ludicrous. As others mentioned,
he is a kindly old man, sort of an absent-minded professor type. (OK, I know
people say this about *all* the psycho killers.) A sweet guy, but not with a
lot of intellectual firepower. The idea of him being a brilliant, devious
killer is quite amusing. He was the kind of guy who would have trouble walking
and chewing gum at the same time. He had a pretty nice collection of nitrate
prints including some interesting PHANTOM OF THE OPERA nitrate material, and he
struck some 16mm negatives of rare titles that were available through the
collector's market. He would often run his film printer while eating a
sandwich with the other hand, giving the finished print a...shall we
say...mayonnaisey look!
Spiritus
was in San Raphael on "Silver ave" This theater really gets around! Los
Angeles, San Raphael, San Francisco. ;)
I knew the Silent film folks could set this straight.
As mentioned the author of Zodiac, apparently interviewed either
Richard Marshall or someone close to him. And though there are quite a
few striking coincidences involved, which is why he is a suspect, the
author came away with the opinion that the actual Zodiac was another
suspect named Arthur Leigh Allen who died in 1992.
There were 2 prime Zodiac suspects, (the so called "favorites" of
detectives involved) they were/are Allen and Marshall, there are
however another 3 suspects who also have some very striking
coincidences to the Zodiac. Obviously all of them can not be the
Zodiac. Which means that there are 4 men who have the very strange (and
no doubt unwanted) addendum to their lives, that they have been
identified with one of the most famous serial killers since Jack the
Ripper, (who's identity also was never discovered). No matter what
these men do or do not do, there will always be a question in the minds
of people at large whether they are actually killers.
I think it is a very interesting foot-note to silent film collecting
history/mythology that a man who apparently devoted much of his life to
a love of silent film, was (and remains) one of the top 2 suspects for
the Zodiac killings. Whether he is guilty or completely innocent, it is
still quite an amazing story.
SP
In article <20000330040116...@ng-co1.aol.com>,
chan...@aol.com (ChaneyFan) wrote:
> >>>I wonder if it isn't actually the Avenue Theater instead, even though
> Bernell is quoted as saying, "we had a zodiac ceiling in our old theater in
> L.A." The Avenue was way before my time, so I don't know if that was the decor
> there or not.
>
> It's been years since I was in there, but this clearly could fit the
> description of the Avenue, which was an old movie house dating back probably
> to
> the early 30's. Not a "movie palace," but a typical, moderately opulent
> neighborhood theater. I believe it is still standing but is now used as a
> church. It is off the Silver Ave exit off 101 a few miles south of downtown
> San Francisco.
>
> >>>I really don't know how Richard Marshall came to be pegged as a
> suspect in the first place, and I'm not suggesting that he is in fact the
> Zodiac.
>
SUQKRT
In article <20000329045338...@ng-da1.aol.com>,
srowe...@aol.comUNSPAM wrote:
>
>>Not only do you probe clumsily for insider
>>information regarding the silent film industry, but you state that
>>someone here might be the infamous Zodiac Killer, a comment that does
>>nothing but stir up suspicion and emotion.
>
>Gee, I thought the comment did nothing but stir up laughter and jokes.
> I don't
>think anyone here found his comment that one of us here is the famous Zodiac
>Killer particuarly believable.
>
>
>Steven Rowe (east coast kind of guy)
i was amused, loved the Chan reference. who's body was it with the knife in it
btw?
suz #5A
macmoosette
Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you
later.-Mary Bly
Please note: I was a cat in my past life :o)
ChaneyFan
auto-didact. On his own he has mastered the optical and chemical parts of
photography as well as electronics--starting
in the crystal set era and continuing on through integrated circuits and
computers.
I confess to not knowing Rick extremely well, but the above didn't come through
at all in my few meetings with him. He certainly could talk film, but his
photographic and cinematographic skills were...well, limited. He sometimes had
stunning nitrate material to work from and the end resulting print he would
make from it would be a poor dupe. He did a negative on LILAC TIME, went to
the trouble to make up a fancy new main title for it...and spelled Colleen
Moore's name incorrectly on the title! Rick was always an extremely nice guy
when I spoke with him, and my intention isn't to put him down, but simply to
say that he doesn't at all fit the descriptions given of the Zodiac killer.
Richard M Roberts
>
> Olivia Fortuna wrote:
>
> > . Hey, being
> > worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
>
> But would you try to reclaim your seat from an interloper in a
> half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
>
> This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in his
> place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
> theater!!!!!!
>
> [sorry, no one but Richard and Michael S. will understand what this is
> about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
>
> --
> Bob Birchard
Thats okay Bob, this year I have decided to be big about it and let them
have my seat at the Alex for the Cinecon..
RICHARD M ROBERTS
Rob Ray
<bbir...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> . Hey, being
>> worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
>
> But would you try to reclaim your seat from an interloper in a
>half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
>
> This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in his
>place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
>theater!!!!!!
>
> [sorry, no one but Richard and Michael S. will understand what this is
>about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
Oh, there are several of us who have Richard's number. My favorite
memory of the Alex Theatre is some guy asking Richard, "Is your name
on this seat?". And Richard replied, "Yes. It's [inserted name of
financial donor on armrest]!"
Rob (lurking til Labor Day) Ray
Robert Birchard
> . Hey, being
> worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
But would you try to reclaim your seat from an interloper in a
half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in his
place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
theater!!!!!!
[sorry, no one but Richard and Michael S. will understand what this is
about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
--
Robert Birchard
> Not only do you probe clumsily for insider
> information regarding the silent film industry, but you state that
> someone here might be the infamous Zodiac Killer, a comment that does
> nothing but stir up suspicion and emotion. Let's add to all this your
> naive belief that all the facts presented in the book you cite are
> completely true. What do you get? An excited fanboy out to do some
> sloppy "reasearch" of his own, hoping to stumble across the Zodiac
> Killer on the Internet and become famous, or someone who is just trying
> to create a little mischief. Either way, it's not someone who should be
> throwing stones at another poster because they express disbelief in your
> outrageous claims.
Spiritus seems like undercover fuzz to me! ;-}
WWW
>
> Olivia Fortuna wrote:
>
> > . Hey, being
> > worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
>
> But would you try to reclaim your seat from an interloper in a
> half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
>
> This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in his
> place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
> theater!!!!!!
Beastly man, obviously needs a trainer, someone with a good sized
rolling pin to keep him under control.
> [sorry, no one but Richard and Michael S. will understand what this is
> about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
The Roberts' reputation precedes him.
WWW
--
You'd be disagreeable too if some kid
dropped a Kansas farmhouse on your sister.
'Generally Buster' http://www.geocities.com/~oldbrit/busterindex.htm
scou...@provide.net
>In article <0aa079b5...@usw-ex0104-031.remarq.com>,
>William Hooper <w...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> >and the possibility that the Zodiac Killer may be someone who
>> >posts here,
>>
>> Ladies & gentlemen, the killer is ... in this very room!
>>
>> [Blackout, screams, 'Night On Bald Mountain' up & under]
>>
>
>Lights up. There is a body on the floor with a huge knife in its back.
>
>CHARLIE CHAN: Touch nothing.
>
>Mike S.
>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
"Nobody Move,...! I'm Inspector Tiger from Scotland Yard,....."
(Guests) "Inspector Tiger,....?"
"WHERE,...?????"
from Monty Pythons Flying Circus,...........
Scoundrel
scou...@provide.net
>>>>>and the possibility that the Zodiac Killer may be someone who
>>posts here,
>
>Someone with the smarts to commit murder and remain at large for 25+ years is
>probably far above the intellectual level of all of us in *this* newsgroup!
>:-)
>
>(With the possible exception of Oksana and Greta. Hmmmmmmmmmm.........)
>===============================
>Jon Mirsalis
>e-mail: Chan...@aol.com
>Lon Chaney Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan
>Jon's Film Sites: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan/jonfilm.htm
Let me see,.....Silent Film collector ,.....
a possible member of this newsgroup,...
a possible murderer,.........
many liberals would sum this up with ....
"Hey,....two out of three ain't bad,....!!!! "
Scoundrel }: )
Stephen Cooke
On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 scou...@provide.net wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:14:43 GMT, pre...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <0aa079b5...@usw-ex0104-031.remarq.com>,
> >William Hooper <w...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >> >and the possibility that the Zodiac Killer may be someone who
> >> >posts here,
> >>
> >> Ladies & gentlemen, the killer is ... in this very room!
> >>
> >> [Blackout, screams, 'Night On Bald Mountain' up & under]
> >>
> >
> >Lights up. There is a body on the floor with a huge knife in its back.
> >
> >CHARLIE CHAN: Touch nothing.
>
> "Nobody Move,...! I'm Inspector Tiger from Scotland Yard,....."
>
>
> (Guests) "Inspector Tiger,....?"
>
> "WHERE,...?????"
>
> from Monty Pythons Flying Circus,...........
"He killed her in a rit of fealous jage!"
Stephen
Michael Gebert
> Let me see,.....Silent Film collector ,.....
> a possible member of this newsgroup,...
> a possible murderer,.........
>
>
> many liberals would sum this up with ....
>
> "Hey,....two out of three ain't bad,....!!!! "
You know, there are gratuitous political swipes...
...and then there are gratuitous political swipes that are actually witty.
Keep practicing, you're not ready for Rush's show yet.
___________________________________________________
Michael Gebert, Writer | www.mindspring.com/~mgmax
Hey Republicans: Tired of seeing the White House occupied by a
gladhanding young Southern governor with a history of shading the truth
about his business dealings, draft dodging, drug use and bad boy
behavior? No, I guess you aren't.
eric stott
> >William Hooper <w...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >> >and the possibility that the Zodiac Killer may be someone who
> >> >posts here,
> >>
> >> Ladies & gentlemen, the killer is ... in this very room!
> >>
> >> [Blackout, screams, 'Night On Bald Mountain' up & under]
> >>
> >
> >Lights up. There is a body on the floor with a huge knife in its back.
> >
> >CHARLIE CHAN: Touch nothing.
> >
>
>
> (Guests) "Inspector Tiger,....?"
>
> "WHERE,...?????"
>
> from Monty Pythons Flying Circus,...........
>
Don't worry. I'll get a Cloth.
MPFS
Eric Stott
Steven Rowe
mg...@mindspring.com (Michael Gebert) writes:
>You know, there are gratuitous political swipes...
>...and then there are gratuitous political swipes that are actually witty.
>Keep practicing <snip>.
Well at least you got it, I kept wondering if he had left out somthing before
the punch line!
Steven Rowe
Michael Gebert
> Don't worry. I'll get a Cloth.
I thought it was "I'll get a clock." An almost non sequitur, just barely
logical response (as in a butler responding to the fall of something from
a wall by thinking that the only reasonable response is to instantly
redecorate the area).
Rob Farr & Kathy Lipp-Farr
RICHARD ROBERTS!"
Olivia Fortuna wrote:
> First off, please get your attributions right. I did not say that
> anyone was "worse than Richard" -- you did. Secondly, I have been
> called much more vile things than "worse than Richard". Hey, being
> worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
>
Rob Farr
--
http://www.netcom.com/~lippfarr/mugshots.htm
Home Page of Forgotten Silent Comics
King Daevid MacKenzie
up with...."Hey,....two out of three ain't bad,....!!!! ">>
..yeah, but mainly if you're the victim...or if Meat Loaf is the
murderer...
:-)
King Daevid MacKenzie, UltimaJock!
Ultim...@webtv.net http://come.to/ultimajock
heard Thursdays at 1400 UTC on http://www.webradio.com/WSUW
"If I've offended you for any reason, you needed it." ROBIN TYLER
("|`-´´-/").___..--´´"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-´
_..`--´_..-_/ /--´_.´ ,´
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
pre...@my-deja.com
> > > worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
> >
> > half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
> >
> > This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in his
> > place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
> > theater!!!!!!
> >
is
> > about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
> >
> > Bob Birchard
>
> Thats okay Bob, this year I have decided to be big about it and let
them have my seat at the Alex for the Cinecon..
>
> RICHARD M ROBERTS
>
Yes, but technically, you're big about everything!
(WWW--can you confirm?)
Mike S.
(no reference too veiled, no joke too smutty)
WWW
> > Thats okay Bob, this year I have decided to be big about it and let
> them have my seat at the Alex for the Cinecon..
> >
> > RICHARD M ROBERTS
> >
>
> Yes, but technically, you're big about everything!
>
> (WWW--can you confirm?)
Well he is certainly taller than me, a very generous person I suppose,
and, as I can't wear his shirts without tripping over them, I would say
he is big. But then he just said I'm little.
WWW.
Brent Walker
repro...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Robert Birchard wrote:
> >
> > Olivia Fortuna wrote:
> >
> > > . Hey, being
> > > worse than Richard is actually a compliment!
> >
> > But would you try to reclaim your seat from an interloper in a
> > half-empty theater after leaving that seat to go to the restroom?
> >
> > This Richard Roberts is a vile villain who needs to be put in
his
> > place!!!!!!! And that place is NOT in the balcony aisle at the Alex
> > theater!!!!!!
> >
> > [sorry, no one but Richard and Michael S. will understand what
this is
> > about, but I can't resist!] ;-}
> >
> > --
> > Bob Birchard
>
them
> have my seat at the Alex for the Cinecon..
>
> RICHARD M ROBERTS
>
My biggest disappointment about Cinecon not being at the Alex this year
is not being able to witness Richard Roberts in "The Thrilla at the
Alex II." Bob Arum and Don King were hotly negotiating for the rights.
Hopefully he can equally annoy some people from West Virginia at the
Egyptian.
--
Brent Walker
bcw...@earthlink.net
Brent Walker
Spiritus <spir...@sanctus.org> wrote:
> In article <8bqdv9$t2p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, dt3...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi-
> >
> > It is generally accepted that the April 1978 "Zodiac" letter was a
> > forgery. The last undisputed Zodiac letter was posted on 7/8/74 and
> > represented Zodiac's final communication with the public. Thus the
> > issue of when "El Spectre Rojo" was in the news (i.e., the 7/8/74
> > letter was signed "The Red Phantom") might be of some interest in
> > determining the origin on Zodiac's "Red Phantom" signature. A
> > curiousity, to be sure... ;)
> >
> > MIKE
> >
> >
>
>
I don't want to join in on this rumormongering, but I think the Zodiac
Killer may have been the guy who played "The Crimson Crusader" on that
60's episode of Dragnet.
Let's see,
THE RED PHANTOM....CRIMSON CRUSADER
Silent Movie theater...he liked to steal movie posters from revival
theaters
N. Highland Avenue....Friday and Gannon were frequently seen driving
down Highland south of Hollywood Blvd. in a stock process shot
I think that's just about all the evidence we need to convict him.
John Thomas
Marshall was and is a bonafide Zodiac suspect. Whether it's true or not is
not for me or anyone here to decide. Zodiac WAS an antique film buff. He
quoted from a few films. Richard Marshall, in all probability is not
Zodiac, but that doesn't change the fact that he was investigated and found
to be a viable suspect. For those of you who describe him, let me describe
another serial killer for you. A young, well groomed, law student. A
member of the "young republicans." Well liked in all the social circles he
was involved in. Who is it? Ted Bundy. To me, the silent/antique film
community was, and may still be, an investigative target in the Zodiac
case. To overlook it from a law enforcement point of view, just because
most of the people in it are nice folks would be a dereliction of duty.
Dave Thomas
Eric Grayson
>My biggest disappointment about Cinecon not being at the Alex this year
>is not being able to witness Richard Roberts in "The Thrilla at the
>Alex II." Bob Arum and Don King were hotly negotiating for the rights.
>
>Hopefully he can equally annoy some people from West Virginia at the
>Egyptian.
>
Hey, can I videotape that event? I can put it right after the footage I
got at the Alex of Howard Keel. Birchard tried to strongarm me to erase
it, but I fooled him good.
I'm also told that the Egyptian this year will allow all cell phones and
pagers for use in the theater during the performance. The beeping does add
a certain LA patina to the features, especially when it drowns out dialog.
I encourage all cell phoners to remain in the theater and yell into their
phones so we all know how important they are because we can't hear the
f*****g movie.
If we could just resurrect Sylvia Sidney and get her in a good fistfight
with Leni Riefenstahl (probably wouldn't be hard to start THAT), then it
would make a Cinecon REALLY worth attending. It would have to be broadcast
on pay cable because of the foul language, but I think it might actually
pull in 3-4 viewers outside the Cinecon.
And the highlight of the convention will be when I try to rip down that
obnoxious rubber wall that I keep reading about at the Egyptian. I'm gonna
try to do a Doug Fairbanks thing like when he ripped the sails with his
knife--except less appealing on every level.
:-)
Eric
norm...@pacbell.net
I am sure the cops, in all their ham-handedness, questioned everyone they
could find who was connected with the Avenue Theater during the Zodiac
period.
They pegged Richard Marshall because of his eccentricities--for his entire
life he has pursued his various technical and cultural muses with no care
for the kinds of comfort and connection most of us seek in life.
Note your example: The clean-cut, conventional, very Republican Ted Bundy.
Those are the people to worry about.
In practical terms, Richard, as long as he was able, held down full-time
technical jobs and spent all of his free, waking hours on his various
projects. He never had the time to devote to purchasing firearms, stalking
strangers and writing taunting messages to the authorities.
Right now, Richard is not online and I have not told him of this thread or
the scurrilous web page. It would be very upsetting to him to hear that
this crap is circulating after all these years. But I have been reliably
informed that he has a clear, legally actionable cause against the web site
operator.
I am going to inform him and urge him to sue if I see any more of this
garbage.
Norm Lehfeldt
John Thomas <jdth...@uswest.net> wrotf:
Michael Gebert
> God, this is such absolute balderdash.
>
> I am sure the cops, in all their ham-handedness, questioned everyone they
> could find who was connected with the Avenue Theater during the Zodiac
> period.
>
> They pegged Richard Marshall because of his eccentricities--for his entire
> life he has pursued his various technical and cultural muses with no care
> for the kinds of comfort and connection most of us seek in life.
>
> Note your example: The clean-cut, conventional, very Republican Ted Bundy.
> Those are the people to worry about.
(Wait, George, he said it, not me!)
While we're at this I'd like to know where everyone was when Thelma Todd died.
Seriously, let's remember we're playing with a real person's reputation
here. Unfortunately, it sounds like the two things that made Richard
Marshall a suspect in the minds of the police were being a habitue of a
certain theater, and being somewhat more eccentric than your average
Rotarian in his personal habits.
I doubt many people who are serious about silent film here wouldn't arouse
the same sort of suspicion.
John Thomas
ago. All I did was point out that he was the subject of an investigation. You
have totally lost the point. The point about Bundy is that anybody, and I mean
anybody is capable of anything. Priests in my faith molest children. Out of
about 2000 suspects your friend was deemed right for more investigation. If
you don't believe me, ask him. His face is plastered all over the internet and
in a book by Robert Graysmith, "Zodiac." Go to www.zodiackiller.com if you
don't believe me.
Good nite.
norm...@pacbell.net wrote:
> God, this is such absolute balderdash.
>
> I am sure the cops, in all their ham-handedness, questioned everyone they
> could find who was connected with the Avenue Theater during the Zodiac
> period.
>
> They pegged Richard Marshall because of his eccentricities--for his entire
> life he has pursued his various technical and cultural muses with no care
> for the kinds of comfort and connection most of us seek in life.
>
> Note your example: The clean-cut, conventional, very Republican Ted Bundy.
> Those are the people to worry about.
>
John Thomas
there was a lot of flaming going on over it, and I just came in to check it out.
Sure enough, you got it goin on. If you want to see and read some of the stuff
about Mr. Marshall, go to www.zodiackiller.com Amateur Zodiac hunters write
there. I've been looking on and off for him for 20 years.
DAve
Michael Gebert wrote:
> In article <38ea7a24...@news.pacbell.net>, norm...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> > God, this is such absolute balderdash.
> >
> > I am sure the cops, in all their ham-handedness, questioned everyone they
> > could find who was connected with the Avenue Theater during the Zodiac
> > period.
> >
> > They pegged Richard Marshall because of his eccentricities--for his entire
> > life he has pursued his various technical and cultural muses with no care
> > for the kinds of comfort and connection most of us seek in life.
> >
> > Note your example: The clean-cut, conventional, very Republican Ted Bundy.
> > Those are the people to worry about.
>
David B. Pearson
>We're not interested in silent film.
I seriously doubt that many on alt.movies.silent cares terribly about the
"Zodiac Killer."
I certainly don't.
By this I mean I hope the killer is found, but I very much doubt it will be
because of a commerical book done for profit, or by a website for amateur
"Zodiac" hunters.
>At Zodiac.com we heard on the message board
>there was a lot of flaming going on over it, and I just came in to check it out.
>Sure enough, you got it goin on.
Only because some other "off-the-wall" outside person asked about it.
Reading through what was said on this thread will show that most all regular
posters were either amused or offended by such a wacky question.
>If you want to see and read some of the stuff
>about Mr. Marshall, go to www.zodiackiller.com Amateur Zodiac hunters write
>there. I've been looking on and off for him for 20 years.
No thank you, sir.
I don't give a tinker's damn about www.zodiackiller.com, this Robert
Graysmith person, or the dubious rantings of amateur sleuths. Not only that,
if someone has said anything about Richard Marshall (whom I don't know) that
is in anyway libelous, I genuinely hope that they are sued by him for the
full damages that are allowed by law.
David B. Pearson
SUQKRT
this really is an ironic topic/thread the actual subject (rumor BS about a long
ago unsolved crime.) yet its very entertaining due to the repartee you guy
throw around.
suz #5A
macmoosette
Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you
later.-Mary Bly
Please note: I was a cat in my past life :o)
Ted Bell
>Reading through what was said on this thread will show that most
>all regular posters were either amused or offended by such a
>wacky question.
>
>I don't give a tinker's damn about www.zodiackiller.com, this
>Robert Graysmith person, or the dubious rantings of amateur
>sleuths. Not only that, if someone has said anything about
>Richard Marshall (whom I don't know) that is in anyway libelous,
>I genuinely hope that they are sued by him for the full damages
>that are allowed by law.
You guys get just as indignant when someone suspects
Margaret Shelby of killing William Desmond Taylor, too, right?
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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eric stott
>
> David B. Pearson wrote:
>
> >Reading through what was said on this thread will show that most
> >all regular posters were either amused or offended by such a
> >wacky question.
> >
> >I don't give a tinker's damn about www.zodiackiller.com, this
> >Robert Graysmith person, or the dubious rantings of amateur
> >sleuths. Not only that, if someone has said anything about
> >Richard Marshall (whom I don't know) that is in anyway libelous,
> >I genuinely hope that they are sued by him for the full damages
> >that are allowed by law.
>
> You guys get just as indignant when someone suspects
> Margaret Shelby of killing William Desmond Taylor, too, right?
>
Yes, but two things;
1. There are some good reasons to suspect Shelby.
2. She is long dead, and there is no chance that our speculation will
cause her any physical harm.
Now if you REALLY want to get someone rilled up, accuse Mabel Normand of
the murder!
Eric Stott
David B. Pearson
----------
>From: eric stott <est...@albany.net>
>Now if you REALLY want to get someone rilled up, accuse Mabel Normand of
>the murder!
>
>Eric Stott
How DARE you accuse dear sweet Mabel of that dastardly crime!!!
:)
DBP
Rodney Sauer
" David B. Pearson" wrote:
>
>
> How DARE you accuse dear sweet Mabel of that dastardly crime!!!
>
> :)
Dear? Sweet? That's not the Mabel we know and love!
Michael Gebert
<jdth...@uswest.net> wrote:
> The point about Bundy is that anybody, and I mean
> anybody is capable of anything.
On the contrary. Only very specific people are capable of such things.
It's just that we aren't very good at spotting their type.
David B. Pearson
Sure she is.
nudge. nudge. wink. wink.
Ted Bell
>Ted Bell wrote:
>
>> You guys get just as indignant when someone suspects
>> Margaret Shelby of killing William Desmond Taylor, too, right?
>>
>
>Yes, but two things;
>
>1. There are some good reasons to suspect Shelby.
I agree completely. And there are also good reasons to
suspect Marshall of being the Zodiac. We can go into those if
anyone wants to, but I realize this isn't a true crime newsgroup.
>2. She is long dead, and there is no chance that our speculation
>will cause her any physical harm.
Speculation about Marshall has been a reality for over
twenty years already. No one has done him any physical harm, nor
does anyone intend to.
>Now if you REALLY want to get someone rilled up, accuse Mabel
>Normand of the murder!
Well, as a matter of fact, Taylor's butler did accuse
Normand of being the killer, as a look at the Taylorology website
will confirm. The police suspected her at first, too... then
cleared her.
chrisdr...@gmail.com
The old theatre is still there. It's the Avenue Theatre on San Bruno avenue in SF.
http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/1945