Missing films list?
AChiWriter
other reference source that has a good list of missing films from the silent
era?
Bruce Calvert
news:19991121122540...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
The Silents Majority website has their list at
http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/LostFilms/top25.htm .
The best book on the subject if Frank Thompson's LOST FILMS: IMPORTANT
MOVIES THAT DISAPPEARED. You can buy this from Amazon.com or Barnes &
Noble.com, or from Frank himself on this newsgroup.
The best source for information on lost and surviving features from the
silent era is a.m.s' own Jon Mirsalis, who keeps a database on surviving
features.
Most of the lists of silent films that I have seen are of surviving films.
However, books on a specific director or star probably have lists of missing
films in their filmography. I know that books on Chaplin, Laurel & Hardy,
and Pickford certainly mention which films are lost.
It is not always easy to classify a film is either lost or found. Garbo's
DIVINE WOMAN has one surviving reel. Laurel & Hardy's BATTLE OF THE CENTURY
is missing the first half of the second reel. Other films like CIVILIZATION
and LIGHT OF THE FAITH exist only in truncated form from reediting years
after their original release. On many Griffith Biograph shorts from
1910-1912, we have the original camera negatives, but unless the film also
survives in the Library of Congress paper print collection, there is no
record of the intertitles.
--
Bruce Calvert
Visit the Internet Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.crosswinds.net/dallas/~bcalvert/home.htm
dmkb
one of the visiting lecturers was Steve Higgins from
MOMA. He mentioned that all the titles on the
Griffith Biographs were created and inserted later
and that there was no record of the original content
of the titles, their number, or even whether or not
they were used in every Biograph.
This came as a surprise to me that no record of the
original titles and I asked him what sources the
recreated intertitles were based on.
He said the reconstructions were predominately
made from the Biograph Bulletins.
Is this something anyone else has knowledge of?
Michael Baskett
> It is not always easy to classify a film is either lost or found.
> On many Griffith Biograph shorts from 1910-1912, we have
> the original camera negatives, but unless the film also survives
> in the Library of Congress paper print collection, there is no
> record of the intertitles.
> Bruce Calvert
Dave Garrett
dshe...@aol.com says...
> When I began Blackhawk's Biograph project (which was to have 50
> previously-unseen Griffith films ready in time for his centennial in January of
> 1975) I went to NY and took lessons in Biograph title writing for two or three
> days from Anita Loos, who had begun her career writing these titles and who
> remembered exactly how they were constructed.
>
> My life is divided between two homes and my copy of the D. W. G. LD box set is
> not here, but if you have it and would like to post a list of the films
> therein, I will let you know which films have original title texts and which
> ones I wrote.
I have the DWG box, but since it's easier to cut and paste the
titles than type them in...
From Dan Balogh's indispensable LaserDisc Box Set website
(http://www.openix.com/~danb/lds/boxsets.shtml):
>>
D. W. Griffith - Years of Discovery: 1909 - 1913
ID 3692DS | 6 sides | Studio: Image | Pressing: Kuraray | 1997
Those Awful Hats
The Sealed Room
The Redman's View
A Corner in Wheat
The Unchanging Sea
In the Border States
His Trust
What Shall We Do With Our Old?
For His Son
The Sunbeam
The Girl and Her Trust
The Female of the Species
One is Business, The Other Crime
An Unseen Enemy
The Painted Lady
The Musketeers of Pig Alley
The New York Hat
The Burglar's Dilemma
The House of Darkness
Death's Marathon
The Mothering Heart
The Battle at Elderbush Gulch
<<
Dave
DShepFilm
one of the visiting lecturers was Steve Higgins from
MOMA. He mentioned that all the titles on the
Griffith Biographs were created and inserted later
and that there was no record of the original content
of the titles, their number, or even whether or not
they were used in every Biograph.
This came as a surprise to me that no record of the
original titles and I asked him what sources the
recreated intertitles were based on.
He said the reconstructions were predominately
made from the Biograph Bulletins.
Is this something anyone else has knowledge of?
>>
Well, I do have some information on this subject.
Many of the Biographs deposited as paper prints for copyright purposes have
original titles cut in, although they are in negative. The practice apparently
was to shoot the title strips for every original print as camera film, using
positive stock taken through the base, and then to cut the correct length into
each assembled print (remember that the Biograph prints were assembled shot for
shot anyway, the negatives were never cut). Prints made from these on paper
provide a record of title texts for several hundred films.
Further, as Biograph prints were sold outright, a moderate number survive as
vintage positives and these, of course, also contain titles.
However, there are many Biographs for which no original texts survive. I wrote
and made replica title cards for about fifty of these and in my humble opinion
they still look good 26 years later.
If one compares authentic Biograph titles with the Biograph Bulletin copy, it
is clear that the copy was usually written with the film at hand, as many of
the title phrases reappear in the Bulletin copy.
Further, the original Biograph negatives were almost always clearly marked with
numbers indicating shot order. Often the existence and position of titles is
indicated by a frame rather unambiguously marked 'title'. Sometimes if there
are two successive shots taken from the same camera position, one simply
assumes that they were separated by a title or an insert. This isn't rocket
science.
When I began Blackhawk's Biograph project (which was to have 50
previously-unseen Griffith films ready in time for his centennial in January of
1975) I went to NY and took lessons in Biograph title writing for two or three
days from Anita Loos, who had begun her career writing these titles and who
remembered exactly how they were constructed.
My life is divided between two homes and my copy of the D. W. G. LD box set is
not here, but if you have it and would like to post a list of the films
therein, I will let you know which films have original title texts and which
ones I wrote.
David Shepard
DShepFilm
There are a few I don't remember, marked (B) for "blinkus of the thinkus", a
mild form of amnesia.
Those Awful Hats (DS)
The Sealed Room (O)
The Redman's View (B)
A Corner in Wheat (O)
The Unchanging Sea (DS)
In the Border States (DS)
His Trust (O)
What Shall We Do With Our Old? (DS)
For His Son (O)
The Sunbeam (DS)
The Girl and Her Trust (O)
The Female of the Species (O)
One is Business, The Other Crime (B)
An Unseen Enemy (O)
The Painted Lady (O)
The Musketeers of Pig Alley (O)
The New York Hat (O)
The Burglar's Dilemma (DS)
The House of Darkness (DS)
Death's Marathon (DS)
The Mothering Heart (DS)
The Battle at Elderbush Gulch (O)
<< >>
David Shepard
Christopher Jacobs
DShepFilm wrote in message <19991121190029...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>Further, the original Biograph negatives were almost always clearly marked
with
>numbers indicating shot order. Often the existence and position of titles
is
>indicated by a frame rather unambiguously marked 'title'. Sometimes if
there
>are two successive shots taken from the same camera position, one simply
>assumes that they were separated by a title or an insert. This isn't
rocket
>science.
>
--------------------------------------
I have an old "Movie Museum" print of THE LONELY VILLA with voice-over
narration that claims the film "like most of Griffith's shorts" had no title
cards. I do notice every time I watch it (and haven't gotten around to
looking at it frame by frame) there is a shot of someone reading a letter,
with a flash frame bearing the word "letter" handwritten on the negative,
but no closeup insert of the letter itself in the print. I can't recall if
there are other flash frames indicating missing titles, but the narration
certainly helps in following the plot. Interestingly the opening title must
have been added later, as it shows a copyright date of 1912 for the 1909
film.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.fargoweb.com/hpr/film.html
ChaneyFan
silent era is a.m.s' own Jon Mirsalis, who keeps a database on surviving
features.
Thanks Bruce. Remind me to give you that $5 I promised you for saying this.
In truth, posting a list of lost silent films is like making a list of stars
that humans haven't visited. With 77% of all American silent features lost
(European features are probably slightly better, American shorts probably
slightly worse), any such list would be massive. Unless of course you are
asking for the 10 films each of us would most like to find...which itself would
be a difficult decision to make.
===============================
Jon Mirsalis
e-mail: Chan...@aol.com
Lon Chaney Home Page: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan
Jon's Film Sites: http://members.aol.com/ChaneyFan/jonfilm.htm
Michael Gebert
chan...@aol.com (ChaneyFan) wrote:
> Unless of course you are
> asking for the 10 films each of us would most like to find
Okay, I'll bite. Mine are (and I'm not cribbing from Frank Thompson's
book, it's already packed):
1. Greed, so we can see how good the new restoration really is.
2. London After Midnight, to shut everyone up already.
3. Four Devils-- most likely candidate to actually be a lost masterpiece.
4. The Miracle Man-- an exalted reputation in its day.
5. Convention City-- okay, so it's not silent, who said I had to pick all
silents? A juicy Warner Bros. movie, what more do you want?
6. Paths to Paradise, or if it's been found, whichever Raymond Griffith
film would settle the issue of whether or not he's a great comedian.
7. Bardelys the Magnificent-- prime era Vidor that at least looks fun.
8. The Drag Net-- if von Sternberg was ever really good, this was the time.
9. Spring Comes From the Ladies-- Ozu college comedy made just before his
masterpiece I Was Born, But.
10. Whatever that movie is that we don't know about that's going to turn
out to blow us away when it is found
greta de groat
be a never-to-be-completed project. But even getting some of the more frequently
asked about titles all written down publicly in one place would, i think, be
useful. After all, a considerable number of the questions posted here are on lost
films, often the same ones over and over (and yes, Jon, I have been saving your
replies!). Don't look for this before about the middle of next year, though, since
i'm still putting the finishing touches on my Norma Talmadge website, which should
be up before the end of the year, and i only have my lunch hours to work on this.
I'm game for a stab at my personal (and rather eccentric) list of 10 most wanted
films. Here they are, off the top of my head, in no particular order:
Der Januskopf (1920, Veidt and Lugosi, how could we go wrong here)
Sherlock Holmes (1916, with William Gillette, definitely the most important lost
Holmes film)
Panthea (1917, Norma Talmadge's breakthrough film)
Four Devils (1928, i definitely agree with Michael Gebert here)
War Brides (1916, Nazimova and a young Barthelmess, dir. by Brenon)
A Doll's House (1922, Nazimova again)
Married Flirts (1924, Pauline Frederick, my own most wanted lost MGM)
Bella Donna or The Eternal City (1916, Pauline Frederick again--ok, i can't make up
my mind!--and i
assume these are lost, though i haven't actually confirmed that)
Cleopatra (1917--or any of Theda's vamp films)
The Sacred Flame (1929, Pauline yet again--just to have a talkie on the list)
with honorable mention for The Miracle Man and Dragnet, and the dozen others of so
i'll think of during the course of the day.
greta
AlRodz
LIES, 1925, starring Lon Chaney, William Haines and Norma Shearer, and based on
Nobel prize winner Selma Lagerlof's THE EMPEROR OF PORTUGALLIA. Seastrom
(Sjostrom) was a masterful director, and the fact that he's working from a text
by Sweden's own poet laureate leads me to believe this is truly a great lost
film...
Contemporary reviews either praised the film vehemently or damned its artiness.
And Lon Chaney played a character that aged throughout the film from young
manhood through old age and madness (the stills are mesmerizing).
Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will pull a perfectly preserved nitrate print
from the ice vaults in Sweden. :)
Al Rodriguez
alr...@aol.com
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
Michael Gebert wrote:
> > Unless of course you are
> > asking for the 10 films each of us would most like to find
Off the top of my head:
* 4 DEVILS for sure
* ALL THE BROTHERS WERE VALIANT (I like ACROSS TO SINGAPORE and want to
see what Chaney did with the role)
* that one with Sally Kellerman romping around in the altogether
* LIFE WITHOUT SOUL
* ALIAS JIMMY VALENTINE (1928) (I like the 1914 version and want to see
the remake)
* DER GOLEM (1914) (can't remember for sure if this is lost but I 'tink
so)
* release version of HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME
* San Francisco preview version of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (yeah, right,
like that's gonna turn up.)
Call me a plebian, but I could care less about a 22- (or 40-) reel
GREED. The surviving version is a masterpiece, period. Film is a
collaborative art and Thalberg was right to insist on something
commercially releasable.
-Jeremy
sh...@my-deja.com
lists, here are ten more lost silents I'd love to see...
"Her Friend the Bandit" (1914) The lost Chaplin Keystone.
"To Hell with the Kaiser" (1918) Wartime hysteria couldn't get much
juicier than this movie, in which the Kaiser makes a deal with Satan,
commits rape, and ends up in hell. Written by June Mathis of all people.
"Remodelling Her Husband" (1920) Lillian Gish directed her sister
Dorothy in this romantic comedy.
"Over the Hill to the Poorhouse" (1920) This was one of the most
highly-praised films of its year and is said to have grossed over a
million dollars, yet it's almost totally forgotten.
"The Best Bad Man" (1925) A Tom Mix western with Clara Bow as his
leading lady.
"The Great Gatsby" (1926) Herbert Brenon's take on *the* American
novel of the '20s, featuring Lois Wilson.
"Paradise" (1926) Too many Betty Bronson films are missing, and an
Irvin Willat film starring Betty and Milton Sills sounds like it should
be fun.
"Hats Off" (1927) Starring Laurel and Hardy; this must be the most
sorely-missed of all Hal Roach productions.
"The City Gone Wild" (1927) A crime melodrama directed by James
Cruze, starring Thomas Meighan and Louise Brooks.
"Heart Trouble" (1928) Harry Langdon's last feature. Just let me see
it *once*... no forced laughter, I promise!
--Shush--
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bruce Calvert
Michael Gebert <mg...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:mgmax-
> Okay, I'll bite. Mine are (and I'm not cribbing from Frank Thompson's
> book, it's already packed):
>
Although this film is lost, a clip still exists that was used in a thirties
compilation. You can buy it from LS Video (http://www.lsvideo.com/) on
their "Blood of Floor Sweepings" tape.
> 6. Paths to Paradise, or if it's been found, whichever Raymond Griffith
> film would settle the issue of whether or not he's a great comedian.
This film exists, except for the last reel. You can purchase a fair quality
video of it at Grapevine (http://grapevinevideo.com/raygrif.htm), although
it's really still copyrighted by Paramount. My review of it is at
http://www.mdle.com/ClassicFilms/FeaturedVideo/video157.htm ).
TIME TO LOVE (which has a chapter in Frank's book) and WEDDING BILL$ both
look like they might have been pretty funny Raymond Griffith comedies.
ChaneyFan
leading lady.
This exists and was run in Syracuse 10-15 years ago with Czech titles. I hear
tell that there is no a restoration of sorts with English titles.
Arlene K. Witt
> "Remodelling Her Husband" (1920) Lillian Gish directed her sister
>Dorothy in this romantic comedy.
And Dorothy Parker wrote the titles.
Arlene
>
Opencity
interesting to re-review his lost silents...especially the D.W. Griffith "That
Royle Girl" and the series he made with Chester Conklin. And the 1914 short
"His Lordship's Dilemma" looks truly surreal, if the surviving stills are any
indication. Perhaps the critics were wrong about these films the first time
around (hey, critics can get it wrong!).
Bruce Calvert
HIS LORDSHIP'S DILEMMA would almost certainly be better than POOL
SHARKS (1915), Field's surviving debut short. The filmmakers made
Fields' character too much like Chaplin's personality (although in 1915
almost all comedians were imitating Chaplin. Also, it would be
interesting to compare Fields' golf game with it's other cinematic
appearances such as in THE GOLF SPECIALIST, THE DENTIST, and other
films.
Since THAT ROYALE GIRL was directed by D.W. Griffith, and included what
was supposed to be a spectacular cyclone scene, I would certainly love
to see it.
Another Fields silent THE POTTERS (1927) sounds like it would have been
good, since its sound remake IT'S A GIFT (1934) was a Fields classic.
Louvish's biography of Fields makes TWO FLAMING YOUTHS(1927) sound
pretty good also.
Still, if I could have my wish for one lost silent film to re-appear,
it wouldn't be LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT, but Laurel & Hardy's HATS OFF
(1927).
--
Bruce Calvert
Visit the Internet Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.crosswinds.net/dallas/~bcalvert/home.htm
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
Bruce Calvert wrote:
> Also, it would be
> interesting to compare Fields' golf game with it's other cinematic
> appearances such as in THE GOLF SPECIALIST, THE DENTIST, and other
> films.
Or Harry Langdon's in THE CHASER!
<ducking for cover> ;-)
-J
James L. Neibaur
Her Friend The Bandit (Charlie Chaplin)
Heart Trouble (Harry Langdon)
Girl in the Limousine (Larry Semon)
These are the Lost Films I had always hoped would someday be found. I have
been hoping since I was about 13, and am now past 40. Doesn't look like a big
possibility.
I am most interested in seeing Heart Trouble, but even Langdon's widow stated
not too long ago that this film disappeared without a trace. Since I never
felt either The Chaser or Three's A Crowd deserved their long held reputations
(often perpetuated by persons who never saw either film), I would like to see
just how Heart Trouble fits into the Langdon filmography. When it played first
run in Racine where I live (according to newspaper accounts), it was held over
as being very popular, which only intrigues me more.
Of course a special nod must go to Hats Off, because it has the reputation that
would lead me to believe it is one of Laurel and Hardy's best silent shorts.
JN
visit my Favorite Movies web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/movies.html
and my Favorite Performers web page:
http://hometown.aol.com/jimneibr/myhomepage/rant.html
Christopher Baird Clotworthy
Jeremy Bond Shepherd wrote:
>
> Off the top of my head:
>
> * 4 DEVILS for sure
> * ALL THE BROTHERS WERE VALIANT (I like ACROSS TO SINGAPORE and want to
> see what Chaney did with the role)
> * that one with Sally Kellerman romping around in the altogether
> * LIFE WITHOUT SOUL
> * ALIAS JIMMY VALENTINE (1928) (I like the 1914 version and want to see
> the remake)
Listening to the Vitaphone discs of the '28 Jimmy Valentine at Library of
Congress illustrated just how irritating children's voices could be when
recorded with primitive recording equipment. Scott Eyman's "Speed of Sound"
said that they were supposed to be tough to record. There's a scene at the
end when Jimmy (a crook who's gone straight) must reveal his safecracking
skills to free a tiny kid who's locked herself in a bank vault. Outside the
vault, a shrill child actress cries, "Siiiiiiiiiister! Siiiiiiiiiister!
Save siiiiiiiissssssterrrrr!!! Please save siiiiiiiissssssterrrrr!!! Oh
please, please, save siiiiiisterrr!!!" It's hideous. Like nails on a
blackboard, and it goes on for a good minute or so (and it felt longer).
Personally, I'd take a nice lost Maurice Tourneur (director of '14 version)
instead. Any Tourneur. -- Chris
Richard M Roberts
would resurface, the always fascinating sounding HOLLYWOOD(Paramount
1923) directed by James Cruze. Just the cast and synopsis make it sound
fascinating. BEGGAR ON HORSEBACK(1926) as well.Larry Semon's STOP,LOOK
AND LISTEN(1926) is another one I'd like to find one day.
Altough not all lost films turn out to be classics. Last weekend, I had
the "priviledge" to see one of the thought-lost films of an obscure
comic named Al Joy, in a beautiful 35mm nitrate no less. I had always
wanted to see one of his films, now I have. It and he were absolutely
dreadful.
RICHARD M ROBERTS
Eric Grayson
<mailto:repro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I'm suprised that nobody mentioned the lost film that I've always hoped
>would resurface, the always fascinating sounding HOLLYWOOD(Paramount
>1923) directed by James Cruze. Just the cast and synopsis make it sound
>fascinating. BEGGAR ON HORSEBACK(1926) as well.Larry Semon's STOP,LOOK
>AND LISTEN(1926) is another one I'd like to find one day.
>
Horseback and it is an utterly fantastic film. The last reel or 2 is
missing from it, and I would still love to see them....
Eric
Opencity
proper appreciation: Lloyd Hamilton. Most of his films vanished in a fire.
The surviving films are wonderfully funny, which makes the loss of his work all
the more painful.
Richard M Roberts
I'll always discuss Lloyd Hamilton. He is wonderful and gradually, more
and more of his films are coming to light. Unfortunately, the ones still
missing are his early twenties films which are his best. If only films
like ROBINSON CRUSOE JR(1922) and NO LUCK (1923) would turn up.I was
happy to show CAREFUL PLEASE (1926) at my Cinecon Comedy Cavalcade show
this year in a beautiful original Show at Home print that turned up this
year. It was the film released before MOVE ALONG and had a bizarre
stream of consiousness plot that was essentially three ridiculous gag
situations totally unrelated to each other and ended with a nice stunt
sequence with Ham's auto suspended several stories in the air next to a
high rise.
RICHARD M ROBERTS
pre...@my-deja.com
I had no idea she worked in silent film! She looks great for her age!
;-)
>
> Call me a plebian, but I could care less about a 22- (or 40-) reel
> GREED. The surviving version is a masterpiece, period. Film is a
> collaborative art and Thalberg was right to insist on something
> commercially releasable.
>
The problem is not that he cut the release version down to ten reels.
The problem is THAT HE THREW THE REST OF IT AWAY!!!
Mike S.
eric stott
Well, what would you have expected him to do? At that time I expect that
no one (Except Von Stroheim) thought that there would be ANY interest in
the film at all after its commercial value wore out, like (Perhaps)
INTOLERANCE. The notion that we should preserve EVERYTHING for the
future is a very modern one indeed.
Eric Stott
Eric Stott
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
pre...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > * that one with Sally Kellerman romping around in the altogether
>
> I had no idea she worked in silent film! She looks great for her age!
> ;-)
Oops, guess I'm having one of my "moments" again.
At least somebody's reading my scrawl. ;-)
OK, somebody help me. I don't have Frank Thompson's book handy. What
actress am I thinking of? Lady swimmer, lost movie, something along
mythological lines, performs in the nude?
Bleh -- I hate having such a bad memory.
-J
greta de groat
Kellermann? Sounds like it was a blast.
greta
William Hooper
>like to find
Selfish wants?
Footage shot by a New Orleans newsreel outfit of the various Saenger
theaters around the southeast on their various opening days. All those
people going in & out, the parades, etc.: I like to watch the house.
Snipes, etc. made for the theaters.
"Greed"'s camera negative will probably show up first.
Glamour Studios
"Ecstasy" starring Hedy Lamarr (aka Hedy Keisler) are you? She had a nude
swimming scene in that that was considered quite racy at the time, but I
believe this is around 1933. And I do not believe it is a lost film, I've
seen the clip.
Archie Waugh
Glamour Studios
AW
greta de groat wrote:
> A Daughter of the Gods (1916), dir by Herbert Brenon, with Annette
> Kellermann? Sounds like it was a blast.
>
> greta
>
Michael Gebert
wrote:
> You're not, by some wild chance, thinking of the early Czech talkie
> "Ecstasy" starring Hedy Lamarr (aka Hedy Keisler) are you? She had a nude
> swimming scene in that that was considered quite racy at the time, but I
> believe this is around 1933. And I do not believe it is a lost film, I've
> seen the clip.
Actually, there's a story there and it is something of a lost film. As is
widely known, Lamarr's subsequent husband, Fritz Mandl, spent a good deal
of his fortune buying up every known print of the film. As it turned out
(and is not so widely known), tragically, he'd have been much better off
looking to his own safety rather than his soon-to-be-ex-wife's modesty, as
he wound up dying in the Holocaust. In any case, the result is that while
we still have something called Ecstasy/Extase, the surviving prints come
from assorted reissue versions, variously censored and reedited by
distributors cashing in on the film's notoriety, and are apparently not a
very accurate depiction of what the original film was like.
Michael Gebert
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
greta de groat wrote:
>
> A Daughter of the Gods (1916), dir by Herbert Brenon, with Annette
> Kellermann? Sounds like it was a blast.
The very one! Thanks Greta.
ANNETTE, not SALLY!
yeesh...
-J
ChaneyFan
we still have something called Ecstasy/Extase, the surviving prints come
from assorted reissue versions, variously censored and reedited by
distributors cashing in on the film's notoriety, and are apparently not a
very accurate depiction of what the original film was like.
Some years ago I owned (and later sold) the 16mm fine grain that was used to
make the 16mm TV release prints. Print quality on it was stunning and it
actually seemed to be quite coherent, with a heck of a lot of nudity and heavy
breathing scenes still in it. I of course have no way of knowing what else
might have been cut (maybe the scene with Hedy, the dwarf, and the rubber
chicken). It is actually very much like a silent film...great visuals, almost
no dialogue, and it is quite a good picture when seen properly.
Jeremy Bond Shepherd
(ChaneyFan) wrote:
>
> It is actually very much like a silent film...great visuals, almost no
dialogue, and it is quite a good picture when seen properly
I saw this in a gorgeous '35 at the Castro this year and second this. I was
really quite impressed with it as well as the other Machatay titles they ran.
- Jeremy
Dziadsj
Some that come to my mind:
-Blind Bargain
-Januskopf (Veidt)
-Algol (1920) but is it lost?
-Aerial Anarchists (Booth short)
- Chapters 1,2,3,5,6 of Homonculus (saw chapter 4 at MOMA in NYC and it was
great)
- Life Without a Soul (I think someone mentioned this)
But to also respond to another thread, how about some films that exist but
don't seem to be accessible:
- the "restored" Metropolis
- the recently restored Lost World
- Himmelskibet
- High Treason
BTW while most of my choices are still genre-oriented, this Newsgroup has my
generated interest in other stuff. I have a box full of more general silent
videos that I wouldn't have otherwise and am just getting set to watch. I've
been reading postings on this sight more than any other and you guys seem to
have the most intelligent discussions. And so, I just have to figure out what
it is you all are talking about!!!
Gotta go. Supper is ready!!!!!
SJ
Christopher Jacobs
Dziadsj wrote in message <19991201175821...@ng-cj1.aol.com>...
>BTW while most of my choices are still genre-oriented, this Newsgroup has
my
>generated interest in other stuff. I have a box full of more general
silent
>videos that I wouldn't have otherwise and am just getting set to watch.
I've
>been reading postings on this sight more than any other and you guys seem
to
>have the most intelligent discussions. And so, I just have to figure out
what
>it is you all are talking about!!!
>
---------------------------------
I hope you can convince friends to come over and watch the silents with you,
and get them hooked on general silents as well. Once people have overcome
their prejudice against films made more than three years ago (much less B&W
or *silent* of all things!) many are surprised that they can appreciate and
enjoy them.
I've just arranged for a bi-weekly series of 10 silents at our local public
library that I don't expect many people to attend, but I hope word of mouth
builds its crowd over the weeks until the room is too small. (Of course I'll
offer my film students extra credit to attend and write brief analysis
papers to help inspire them to go).
Public libraries are often delighted to offer public programs they don't
have to pay for. If you introduce the movie and supply the prints, maybe you
could dredge up or convert a few more silent film buffs.
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.fargoweb.com/hpr/film.html
TJNORT
no sense. (The cable station in the SF Bay Area that finally broadcast this
-- now defunct -- had several times before promised to show ECSTACY but had
chickened out and shown something else, usually for some entirely obscure
reason a film starring Gabby Hayes.) I was gratified to finally see a longer,
subtitled version of this. It IS a good movie, when all is said and done, and
my experience with this film made me realize how easy it is to ruin a good or
even great film with editing "for content". If you are going to see a movie,
SEE the movie, and not someone's reduction of it. (What was done in this
country to films like VARIETY, SPIES and METROPOLIS seems almost criminal, and
often the material lost in the editing is lost forever, or as good as lost
forever. I am looking forward to seeing the reconstruction of Von Stroheim's
GREED, but do so realizing that the use of stills can go only so far towards
realizing what Von Stroheim intended to show in the way of moving images. But
even this is better than the alternative, which is to lose all the additional
matter Von Stroheim wished to convey. I've seen for instance both the Gloria
Swanson edit of QUEEN KELLY and the version of that film that is filled out
with additional footage and stills, and the latter is much preferable. In fact
if you have seen only the Swanson edit of QUEEN KELLY, I would go so far as to
say that you haven't really seen the film at all, only an extended anecdote
that is derived from it.)
friction
DER GOLEM (1914) (can't remember for sure if this is lost but I 'tink
so)
Actually, this has survived, in a version which runs 58 minutes.
However it's 1917 sequel, DIE GOLEM UND DIE TANEZERIN is lost. This
must've been a curious film, as it is said to have been posessed of
some comedy elements.
My top ten list is really just "a list of what I can think of now"
1. The Last Moment (1928) D: Paul Fejos
2. Mockery (1926) D: Victor Seastom
3. Off To Bloomingdale Asylum (1901) D: Georges Melies
4. The Chicken Thief (1905) produced by Biograph
5. Genuine (1920) D: Robert Wiene
6. Satanas (1919) D: Robert Wiene
7. Secrets Of A Soul (1926) D: G.W. Pabst
8. The Greatest Thing In Life (1918) D: D.W. Griffith
9. The Great Love (1918) D: D.W. Griffith
10. My Official Wife (1914) With Clara kimball Young
The first was a feature length experimental film which covers the
images flashing through a man's head as hw commits suicide. It was a
huge commercial success- big surprise to the studio, who thought it too
weird and 'european' for the general public. And it is lost.
The second is with Chaney. Stills are incredible. The third and
fourth fall under the category of "have you ever read the descriptions
of these films?" GENUINE and SECRETS OF A SOUL have left behind
incredible stills, and while I've never seen a still of SATANAS it
looks to have been a precursor of HAXAN. THE GREAT LOVE starred
members of the British Royal Family. THE GREATEST THING IN LIFE showed
Robert Harron kissing a dying black soldier on the lips. MY OFFICAL
WIFE had Leon Trotsky in a bit part.
I second the nominations of DER JANUSKOPF and HUMAN WRECKAGE as films
which absoloutly must be found. In the former case, chances are slim,
as all prints and negative were allegedly destroyed on demand by the
Robert Louis Stevenson estate, as the story was a thinly veiled ripoff
of "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde". Such an order was also decreed by Bram
Stoker's estate for NOSFERATU, however the surviving prints seem to
derive from a shortened, dubbed for sound version released in 1930 as
DIE ZWOLFTE STUENDE.
As for HUMAN WRECKAGE, I would vote for the preservation of all known
films directed or produced by Dorothy Davenport, several of which lay
a-molderin' in the archives. UCLA has a print of THE RED KIMONO (1927)
which deals with heroin addiction. It has not been restored.
Eugene Lauste is said to have made a primitive sound film, via wax
cylinder, of Scott Joplin playing at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair.
Likewise, Selig made sound films of Caruso in 1909 and Harry Lauder in
1914. Virtually all Selig product is lost. As is virtually all Eclair
product, including dozens of shorts by their chief animator, Emile
Cohl. So is all of the sound films produced in 1914-16 by Japan
Kinetophone Co., though some of the soundtrack cylinders are in a
museum in Stockholm.
One more Theda Bara feature would be nice also. I could go on and on...
TJNORT
Kavel. MOCKERY also survives and is (or has been) circulating through the
video tape underworld (it's an MGM film and may have been shown on Turner Movie
Classics. 19 minutes of GENUINE is featured on the Kino Video edition of THE
CABINET OF DR. CALIGARI.
ChaneyFan
>>>3. Off To Bloomingdale Asylum (1901) D: Georges Melies
>>>4. The Chicken Thief (1905) produced by Biograph
>>>5. Genuine (1920) D: Robert Wiene
>>>6. Satanas (1919) D: Robert Wiene
>>>7. Secrets Of A Soul (1926) D: G.W. Pabst
>>>9. The Great Love (1918) D: D.W. Griffith
>>>10. My Official Wife (1914) With Clara kimball Young
Several of these exist. MOCKERY (1927 not '26, and Christensen, not Seastrom!)
exists in a beautiful 35mm print at Turner. A stunning, uncut 35mm of SECRETS
OF A SOUL is at the Munich Filmmuseum. I believe some or all of SATANAS and
GENUINE exist in Germany, but I have not seen either and can't confirm this for
sure.
Dziadsj
just curious....what made you choose this particular Melies flim out of all of
the rest?
friction
Well- it's not quite politically correct. Briefly (from memory;
the actual film would probably take less time to watch than to
describe) two coachmen drive onstage in a bizarre, articulated coach
(preserved in a lone still, or sketch). They jump off and start to
slap one another repeatedly. With each slap their faces change color-
black, to white, to black, to white, etc. Then the two merge into what
is described in the bulletin as "one huge negro", which "bursts into
pieces." I single it out just as it sounds so weird.
There are many films listed in the back of Sadoul's 1968 book on Melies
which look intriguing that are not indicated by a (*), meaning a
survivor. I counted the stars one day to discover there are less than
200 survivors of more than 800 films made.
It would be interesting to see Melies' 1907 "Robert Macaire", remade in
1924 by Jean Epstein (has THAT survived?) Also, what of the 1912
CENDRILLON, Melies last film and only feature with a runtime of more
than 45 mins.? It is starred in the Sadoul book, but I've never seen a
frame of the film, only clips from the famous (hand-colored) 1900
version.
friction
website that answers these and much more:
http://www.alphacentauri.be/Friends/Melies/Index.htm
Incidentally it lists what I called the "1907" "Macaire" as a survivor,
though from 1908. It also puts the "1900" "Cendrillon" in 1899.
The site has a comprehensive filmography which identifies all 180
surviving Melies films. It seems his survivng output is not as slim as
older reference sources would have it, and there are even long strings
of succesive films which have all survived. Lucky for us!
rock...@my-deja.com
more silent films out there waiting to be found! A donor brought in 30
reels of nitrate a few weeks ago... included were a number of one
reelers from 1910-12, some "lost" Lubins among the bunch. We are
working on Larry Semon's last feature "Spuds" which DOES exist in its
complete form. Also in the works is "Molly O" with Mabel Normand.
While certainly the number of films that are lost is HUGE, there is a
rather LARGE number hiding... in archives under foreign titles, bogus
titles or unidentified; in your collection or the other guy's; tucked
away in some theater; in a silent filmmmaker's grandkids' garage; who
knows where?... but they are there. So keep looking!!
Rob Stone
P.S. We are starting an AL JOY FAN CLUB. If you are interested in
joining please e-mail me at sno...@themovies.com.
Richard M Roberts
I'll join only if we can do a complete filmography of Joy's supporting
heavy, Mack Flucker(not a joke)
RICHARD M ROBERTS
R H Draney
> Call me an optimist but I think, believe, know- that there are many
> more silent films out there waiting to be found! A donor brought in 30
> reels of nitrate a few weeks ago... included were a number of one
> reelers from 1910-12, some "lost" Lubins among the bunch. We are
> working on Larry Semon's last feature "Spuds" which DOES exist in its
> complete form. Also in the works is "Molly O" with Mabel Normand.
Would that be from the Russian print I tried unsuccessfully to bid on a
video tape of at eBay a couple months ago?....
BTW, for any and all other Mabel fans, they're "doing" her on E!'s
"Mysteries and Scandals" next Tuesday night...the listing says this was
already run back in October, but I'll take whatever I can get....r
--
"God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know
the difference...oh, and a pony!"
Dziadsj
>website that answers these and much more:
>
>http://www.alphacentauri.be/Friends/Melies/Index.htm
That's o.k. You just answered another question that I just posted on another
thread!
David Pierce
[snip]
> UCLA has a print of THE RED KIMONO (1927)
> which deals with heroin addiction. It has not been restored.
This film has been preserved by the Library of Congress. The
cataloging record follows:
---------------
The Red kimono / Mrs. Wallace Reid productions ; directed by Walter Lang ;...
LC Control Number:
91723589
Type of Material:
Moving Image or Slide/Transparency
Brief Description:
The Red kimono / Mrs. Wallace Reid productions ; directed by
Walter Lang
; story, Adela Rogers St. John.
United States : Vital Exchanges, 1925.
1 videocassette of 1 (VHS) (95 min.) : sd., b&w ; 1/2 in.
viewing copy.
7 reels of 7 (6355 ft.) : si., b&w ; 35 mm. ref print.
1 reel of 7 (r1) (1027 ft.) : si., b&w ; 35 mm. ref print
(copy 2)
7 reels of 7 (6355 ft.) : si., b&w ; 35 mm. dupe neg.
---------------
The Library recently implemented a new on-line catalog
of their holdings. I posted instructions on how to search
their catalog at http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/archives.htm
Select "Search Films or Videos Received or Catalogued Since
About 1983" and follow the directions.
David Pierce
Silent Film Sources
http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm
The Silent Film Bookshelf
http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/bookshelf
Darren
I used to have a Photoplay Edition book of that film. It had over 15 still in
it, as I remember. Since I sold it I have been hearing about how it could have
been such a great film time and time again at this NG. I am having a
tremendous feeling of sellers remorse now! But then again, I paid $4 for it
and got $38 for it so I did not do too bad.
Have a nice day, :)
Darren
--------------------
Visit my favorite newsgroups...
Alt.Elvis.King
Alt.Movies.Silent
Alt.Music.Alanis
Alt.Music.Alanis.Morissette
Darren
would like to find. I have tried to omit films that are on others lists, but,
there is a couple duplicated here.
SILENTS
1) Treasure Island starring Lon Chaney Sr. This had to have been a great one!
2) Bardleys The Magnificent. I have the Photoplay and seen many stills and
read THE DARK STAR biography. This sounds like a good one to find.
3) Red Hair (1928) starring Clara Bow. Wouldn't it be great to have another of
her films from her peak? All of her potentially wonderful 1928 films are
gone. The Technicolor showing her "Red Hair" must have been a sight to see in
those days.
4) All of those 1910s Chaplin films that were butchered. Although mostly
extant, I consider some to be lost becuase they are in such bad shape.
5) Hats Off. This was Laurel and Hardy's first L & H short.
6) All of the color scenes from Phantom of the Opera, including test footage
and the like. Heck, hows about the print that was run here in Saginaw back in
1925? I'd like to see that, too.
7) One of those Roudolph Valentino films with great set and costume designs.
Take yer pick 'cause lots of them are gone.
8) All of the camera negitives for the Melies films in 35mm nitrate. Original
foreign camera negs, not domestic dupes!
9) All of the Gloria Swanson, Coleen Moore, and Clara Bow films that existed
but were neglected by the archives years ago because of, perhaps unintentional,
gender bias.
10) All of the 35mm and 16mm newsreels that were shot for and shown at
Saginaw's Temple Theater in the 1920s and 1930s. They existed at one time but
were all thrown in the trash becuase the guy did not know where to store them
when he found they were in the vault at Saginaw Photo. This is the the way I
heard the story go.
Here is a bonus pick...
11) London After Midnight. I'd grab the print that ran here in Saginaw on,
believe it or not, December 28, 1928!
SOUND FILMS.
1) All of the foreign language versions of all of the Laurel and Hardy films.
Especially the one version of PARDON US with Boris Karloff as the villian!
2) Sound verion of Phantom of the Opera that ran here in Saginaw in 1929.
3) Uncle Tom's Cabin. The first "sound" film to run in Saginaw. It may have
been a silent with orchestrial sound and sound effects only. It ran at the
Franklin begining in late August, 1928.
4) Uncensored W. C. Fields shorts. The censored versions that I have seen are
too choppy in parts.
5) Rouge Song. This sounds like a good one so I guess I'd want to see that
saved. Too bad most if it is gone. :(
6) Uncensored King Kong and Frankenstein.
7) It Happened One Night 35mm negitives
8) That early sound (?) serial with Boris Karloff. Only the silent version
exists.
9) That sound film from, was it 1898(?), that Georges Melies made for an opera
singer named Paulus. It was pretty popular in its day and I will not be
surprised that it exists in France.
10) Fill in the blank. I am running out of ideas for sound films.
Darren
> survive, with 350 left to go.
This is good news! He made so many wonderfil films.
Do you know of a listing of these titles on the Net?
Darren
> 200 survivors of more than 800 films made.
> It would be interesting to see Melies' 1907 "Robert Macaire", remade in
> 1924 by Jean Epstein (has THAT survived?) Also, what of the 1912
> CENDRILLON, Melies last film and only feature with a runtime of more
> than 45 mins.? It is starred in the Sadoul book, but I've never seen a
> frame of the film, only clips from the famous (hand-colored) 1900
> version.
>
Somebody somewhere HAS to compile a definitive list of Melies films that exist
and don't exist. Hows about a COMPLTETE MELIES DVD series like you are begining
to see with others like Chaplin and Keaton. Unfortunately, some of the Melies
shorts seem to only exist on paper prints in the LOC.
Perhaps France has preserved more than the less than 200 listed in the book
Christopher Jacobs
David Pierce wrote in message <38496D77...@dc.infi.net>...
>
>This film has been preserved by the Library of Congress.
------------------------
If the nitrate on THE RED KIMONO still exists, it should be preseved again
on color stock. The B&W print I saw had dark spotches over the "red kimono"
that were an obvious hand-applied color (no doubt a deep red). I would
expect the print was also toned as well as hand-tinted in portions. (Do you
know anything about the LoC print, James, if you're reading this?)
--Christopher Jacobs
http://www.fargoweb.com/hpr/film.html
David Pierce
> Off the top of my head, heres my top ten silents and top ten soundies that I
> would like to find. I have tried to omit films that are on others lists, but,
> there is a couple duplicated here.
[snip]
> 3) Uncle Tom's Cabin. The first "sound" film to run in Saginaw. It may have
> been a silent with orchestrial sound and sound effects only. It ran at the
> Franklin begining in late August, 1928.
This version of "Uncle Tom's Cabin" with the orchestral
score has just been released by Kino on Video, in the
same series as Peter Pan.
Bruce Calvert
news:3849EBB8...@sprynet.com...
> Somebody somewhere HAS to compile a definitive list of Melies films that
exist
> and don't exist. Hows about a COMPLTETE MELIES DVD series like you are
begining
> to see with others like Chaplin and Keaton. Unfortunately, some of the
Melies
> shorts seem to only exist on paper prints in the LOC.
>
> Perhaps France has preserved more than the less than 200 listed in the
book
David Shepard's Kino DVD (I have the laserdisc) of the MAGIC OF MÉLIÈS has
thirteen of his films that were preserved at the Academy of Motion Picture
Arts and Sciences from the original alternate picture negatives. The
picture quality is absolutely stunning. This disk also contains a
hand-colored version of LE VOYAGE A TRAVERS L'IMPOSSIBLE (THE IMPOSSIBLE
VOYAGE) with the original "narration". If you are interested in Méliès, you
must get this disk.
--
Bruce Calvert
Visit the Internet Silent Film Still Archive
http://www.crosswinds.net/dallas/~bcalvert/home.htm
edbina
Stroheim:
THE DEVIL'S PASSKEY
FOOLISH WIVES (von Stroheim cut)
GREED (any of von Stroheim's rough cuts)
THE WEDDING MARCH, Part Two (THE HONEYMOON)
WALKING DOWN BROADWAY
Langdon:
HEART TROUBLE
FLICKERING YOUTH
THE WHITE WING'S BRIDE
Laurel & Hardy:
HATS OFF
the missing footage from THE SECOND HUNDRED YEARS
the missing footage from THE BATTLE OF THE CENTURY
Okay, that's eleven, I'll stop.
ScotJohn96
> Eugene Lauste is said to have made a primitive sound film, via wax
cylinder, of Scott Joplin playing at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair.
> Likewise, Selig made sound films of Caruso in 1909 and Harry Lauder in
>1914.
The pre-1920 sound films fascinate me. Unfortunately, most of them are lost.
Joplin appeared in a talkie? Interesting, if true.
Scott