Silent film music copyright
Junkmetal
the silent era (post 1922)? I have a large collection of recordings
of old ragtime and early jazz music and need to figure out what is PD.
I am considering working on a new project that will be recreating
music from the silent era (yes, that's right, I'm going legit after
all these years). I'll probably be working with a different group of
musicians than the usual suspects. I'm looking for early jazz and
ragtime that I can use. And I'm not looking to violate anybody's
copyright.
Ken Winokur /Alloy Orchestra
to contact me directly, ignore the Junkmetal address and go to:
)name of my musical group)@earthlink.net
john
have any problems i can check this with a friend if you like
I would be intrested in buying some of your music as i restore silent films
and i am always looking for good music to go with it
"Junkmetal" <junk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:786a7532.0402...@posting.google.com...
J. Theakston
> Can anyone tell me how to go about searching copyright on songs from
> the silent era (post 1922)? I have a large collection of recordings
> of old ragtime and early jazz music and need to figure out what is PD.
>
> I am considering working on a new project that will be recreating
> music from the silent era (yes, that's right, I'm going legit after
> all these years). I'll probably be working with a different group of
> musicians than the usual suspects. I'm looking for early jazz and
> ragtime that I can use. And I'm not looking to violate anybody's
> copyright.
>
> Ken Winokur /Alloy Orchestra
You'll want Photoplay music for most of your stuff if you're looking
for that sound.
What size orchestra will you be having? Contact me off-list and I can
set you up with some good pieces. What is to become of Alloy?
-J. Theakston
Rodney Sauer
> the silent era (post 1922)? I have a large collection of recordings
> of old ragtime and early jazz music and need to figure out what is PD.
>
> I am considering working on a new project that will be recreating
> music from the silent era (yes, that's right, I'm going legit after
> all these years). I'll probably be working with a different group of
> musicians than the usual suspects. I'm looking for early jazz and
> ragtime that I can use. And I'm not looking to violate anybody's
> copyright.
>
> Ken Winokur /Alloy Orchestra
This is nontrivial. If it's listed at the ASCAP site then you know it
IS copyrighted, but that only covers pieces that have been recorded
recently. If it's not at the ASCAP site, it still might be
copyrighted, it just hasn't been recorded since they've been keeping
computerized records.
I find that almost anything post-1922 is under copyright -- composers
were much better than film studios at making sure the paperwork was
filed, partly because of associations like ASCAP that were looking out
for composers' interests. I found a tango called AMALIA that was never
copyrighted, but that's unusual -- it apparently was written for a
local theater and not published by the usual companies.
Particular companies were bought by others, and you need to follow the
trail, though there are people on this newsgroup who know (for
instance) who owns the pieces once published by the Robbins-Engel
company. Sam Fox is still around (for Zamecnik cues) and I've got
their email address somewhere.
Licensing copyrighted pieces for CD release is not onerous -- there's
a "statutory rate" determined by law that you pay per recording if
you want to record the piece (unless you make a better deal directly
with the publishing company). You can get these licenses online at the
Harry Fox Agency. Recording for video (synchronization rights) is
considerably more complicated, and requires negotiation -- something
I've never yet tried (though if I ever get asked to do a film that has
a good title song that's under copyright, I would explore the idea). I
have always stuck with 1922 and earlier pieces for video work, which
is a shame, as there was some fine music written after that.
Rodney Sauer
Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
www.mont-alto.com
Junkmetal
was uncopyrighted. I keep finding compilations of music, published
mostly in England on CD, that don't have copyright info. But, since
this stuff was all recorded and published on 78's, it should have been
registered. I've been compiling the pre 1922 stuff and can probably
stick to that. I'm also thinking of composing music in the style of
the times as well.
What is going to happen to Alloy? Hopefully we'll continue to grow
and get better. My partner Roger has another band, Mission of Burma,
that's getting pretty busy. They're putting out a CD this spring and
are going to do some touring. I'm going to have some time to do other
stuff, so I though I would start another band - mostly just to have
fun playing ragtime and early jazz, which is my preferred listening
style.
I've bought the components for an antique drumset, much like one that
would have been used in the early 20's (huge bass drum with calfskin
heads, a low hat - which is the predecessor to the hi hat, an
oversized marching snare drum to use as a floor tom, cowbells,
woodblocks etc.
I stopped playing a conventional drumset at age 20 and switched to
being a percussionist (no pedals). From there I went to my junk metal
kit 23 years ago (still no feet involved) It's been a blast getting
my chops back on the standard drum kit.
I'm considering the name: St. Louis Jazz Demons of 1928. I'm from
St. Louis as is the other guy I'll be working with. Sounds pretty
authentic doesn't it? 1928 would let me position myself to use any
music from the silent era. Most importantly I can imagine this
painted on my bass drum head, with a great picture of a demon.
I don't know yet if there will be a practical application to this
endeavor (a silent film score), but I'll keep you all informed if
there is.
Ken Winokur / St. Louis Jazz Demons of 1928
To reply you should still use the address of my other band:
nospamallo...@earthlink.net (and remove the no spam)
rod...@mont-alto.com (Rodney Sauer) wrote in message news:<cc9b8bb9.04021...@posting.google.com>...
Bob Birchard
> as far as i know music befor 1926 is ok and is pd si i dont think you should
> have any problems i can check this with a friend if you like
This is not correct. Everything copyrighted up to December 31, 1922 is in
Public Domain. After that you would need to do a search.
If it is just a matter of public performance, that would probably be covered
under the public performance licenses of the venues you're playing.
If it's a matter of recording rights, there are, I believe, standard
licensing fees through ASCAP for such use, though I admit I know little or
nothing about music licensing
--
Bob Birchard
Coming from the University Press of Kentucky in June 2004
“Cecil B. DeMille’s Hollywood”
by Robert S. Birchard
I.S.B.N. # 0-8131-2324-0
http://kentuckypress.com/viewbook.cfm?Category_ID=1&Group=42&ID=1113
DShepFilm
If it's a matter of recording rights, there are, I believe, standard
licensing fees through ASCAP for such use, though I admit I know little or
nothing about music licensing
>>
This is true for the "obligatory mechanical license" for sound recordings.
Synchronization rights (scoring a video, for example) must be negotiated with
the publishers one tune at a time. What a pain!
David Shepard
Junkmetal
> If it's a matter of recording rights, there are, I believe, standard
> licensing fees through ASCAP for such use, though I admit I know little or
> nothing about music licensing
My one experience trying to license copyrighted music for a silent
film was for our recent David Shepard / Image production of Steamboat
Bill Jr and The General DVD.
We had been performing our score for Steamboat for years, using a 2
minute rendition of "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover". We
recorded the song and then though we should find out about the rights
situation. BMI steered me to the copyright owner, in Rhode Island.
I called him, explained the project (and how few DVD's would actually
be sold) and asked how much he wanted to license the rights. He asked
me what I thought was fair. I suggested that we pay an amount
proportional to the percentage of "Clover" to the rest of the music
in the 2 film DVD (which comes out to a little more than 1%). He
laughed at me.
Undaunted, I asked him what he proposed. He suggested 20% of the
total fee we would be paid. It was my turn to laugh, thank him and
hang up.
We went back into the studio and my partner Terry grabbed his banjo
and picked out a new tune (that fit with the chordal piano and spoons
background we had already recorded). It took him about 5 minutes to
come up with a new tune, and another 10 to record it - saving us
hundreds of dollars in royalty payments.
Ken Winokur / Alloy Orchestra / Demons of Early Jazz (the name is
developing as we speak)