Head in the vice scene in "Casino"
Bat Child (Sue M.)
Weekly" magazine, that Martin had filmed the head in the vice scene
for "Casino" but had no intention of actually using it in the film,
but had only filmed that scene because there was concern that his
original cut might get an NC-17 rating. Allegedly he deliberately
filmed some really gory scenes he had no intention of using, figuring
the ratings board would demand those scenes be cut to avoid the NC-17
rating, but would be willing to let some of the original film's
violent scenes slip through, since they wouldn't seem so bad in
comparison.
(I recall reading in Bob Woodward's "Wired" biography of John Belushi
that the Saturday Night Live writers would do the same thing, write
some really outrageous skits which they had no intention of using but
knew the NBC censors wouldn't allow those skits to get on the air but
would allow some iffy skits through, since they didn't seem to be as
bad as the made-up outrageous skits)
Anyway, does anyone know how much truth there is in this story? I
think it might be questionable since the ratings board allowed that
scene in anyway, but it's still kind of interesting.
(and I still have never seen that scene because I had read about it in
the article and, being warned, shut my eyes during the scene and
listened to the other audience members saying "Ooh! Gross!" and
things like that.)
.
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Faust668
Scorsese was told to tone down the gore by the MPAA so he took one shot out
where the rival hood's eye pops out of his head as the vise is squeezed tighter
and tighter. Thus the film does not show that shot and is just as disturbing to
watch. Scorsese later said in New Yorker magazine that he wished he just stayed
on Joe Pesci's face rather than cutting back and forth to the guy's head.
Bat Child (Sue M.)
Okay, I wasn't aware that he had cut the part where the guy's eye pops
out; I had assumed it was left in from hearing the audience's reaction
(but as you said, it obviously was still disturbing anyways).
I know there were two other scenes in "Casino" where I shut my eyes
because I figured it was going to be gory--the scene where the guy
gets caught cheating in De Niro's casino and they take him to a back
room and apparently mess his hands up, and the scene towards the end
where Joe Pesci's character and the character's brother get beaten to
death with baseball bats (though it was bad enough hearing the bats
going "thunk, thunk, thunk").
Going off track, I heard that in the famous scene in "Pulp Fiction"
where Uma Thurman's character OD's and they revive her by taking a
huge hypodermic needle with adrenaline and injecting it into her
chest, the camera actually cuts away at the last second and they don't
actually show the needle going in; is that true? (I shut my eyes for
that scene also because I had read about it!)
And yes, I know it's only a movie and they just use special effects
and it's not really happening, but I guess I'm rather a wimp! ;-)
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Emile Khordoc
> I know there were two other scenes in "Casino" where I shut my eyes
> because I figured it was going to be gory--the scene where the guy
> gets caught cheating in De Niro's casino and they take him to a back
> room and apparently mess his hands up, and the scene towards the end
> where Joe Pesci's character and the character's brother get beaten to
> death with baseball bats (though it was bad enough hearing the bats
> going "thunk, thunk, thunk").
I've always thought of this scene as Frank Vincent's revenge on Joe Pesci. In Raging
Bull and GoodFellas, Joe Pesci gets to beat up Frank Vincent. In Raging Bull, Joey
beats up Salvy when he sees him at the club with Vickie, slamming a car door into
his head. In GoodFellas, Tommy, Henry and Jimmy beat up Billy Batts (the body in the
trunk), then stab him, then shoot him, then bury him, and then exhume his body! So
in Casino, Frank Vincent's character finally gets payback against the Joe Pesci
character. And you're right, the baseball bat scene is very gruesome. There's a
split-second shot where Pesci's forehead actually appears to be cracked right open
after being smashed with a bat.
> Going off track, I heard that in the famous scene in "Pulp Fiction"
> where Uma Thurman's character OD's and they revive her by taking a
> huge hypodermic needle with adrenaline and injecting it into her
> chest, the camera actually cuts away at the last second and they don't
> actually show the needle going in; is that true? (I shut my eyes for
> that scene also because I had read about it!)
That's true, the camera cuts to her face for a reaction shot. The injection scene
was actually shot backwards, so in reality, John Travolta was pulling the syringe
away from her chest, and the film was run in reverse. In real life, of course, it's
not possible to stick a needle right through a person's breastplate and into their
heart.
Emile
Matthew Ryder
>Okay, I wasn't aware that he had cut the part where the guy's eye pops
>out; I had assumed it was left in from hearing the audience's reaction
>(but as you said, it obviously was still disturbing anyways).
>
>I know there were two other scenes in "Casino" where I shut my eyes
>because I figured it was going to be gory--the scene where the guy
>gets caught cheating in De Niro's casino and they take him to a back
>room and apparently mess his hands up,
Nasty stuff. His fingers are smashed with a hammer.
> and the scene towards the end
>where Joe Pesci's character and the character's brother get beaten to
>death with baseball bats (though it was bad enough hearing the bats
>going "thunk, thunk, thunk").
That scene from Casino is perhaps the most graphically brutal in a
Scorsese flick. (And there's plenty of competition!)
I found Travis Bickle's rampage at the end of Taxi Driver to be more
disturbing however. Scorsese uses a series of dislocating angles and
speed alterations so that the violence is rendered dreamlike and
surreal. The old brothel manager's screams ("I'll kill you! I'll
fucking kill you!") are played out-of-synch with Bickle's progress up
the stairs - a disquieting effect. The censors of the day forced
Scorsese to desaturate the colours in this sequence, but that actually
heightens the ugliness of the bloodletting.
Scorsese has apparently stated that "Age of Innocence" is his most
violent film! But I guess he's talking about the violence of social
oppression rather than his usual bloody mayhem!
>Going off track, I heard that in the famous scene in "Pulp Fiction"
>where Uma Thurman's character OD's and they revive her by taking a
>huge hypodermic needle with adrenaline and injecting it into her
>chest, the camera actually cuts away at the last second and they don't
>actually show the needle going in; is that true? (I shut my eyes for
>that scene also because I had read about it!)
Yes, that's true. Tarantino has a reputation for blood and gore, but
he really doesn't show that much on-screen violence. We never actually
see Mr Blonde slicing off the cop's ear in Reservoir Dogs either.
Tarantino is a master at building the tension, and he uses the THREAT
of violence so expertly that the audience thinks it's seen more than
it actually has.
Anyone who doubts Tarantino's talent as a director should study the
editing of that 'hypodermic needle' scene. It's first-rate.
>
>And yes, I know it's only a movie and they just use special effects
>and it's not really happening, but I guess I'm rather a wimp! ;-)
A Scorsese fan who hates cinematic violence?! I didn't know that was
possible! You must've had your eyes wide shut for the bloody climax
of Taxi Driver, most of Raging Bull, bits of Cape Fear, many scenes
involving Pesci in Goodfellas and Casino, not to mention the wholesale
gang-slaughter in his latest!
Matt.
Bat Child (Sue M.)
wrote:
[snip]
>A Scorsese fan who hates cinematic violence?! I didn't know that was
>possible! You must've had your eyes wide shut for the bloody climax
>of Taxi Driver, most of Raging Bull, bits of Cape Fear, many scenes
>involving Pesci in Goodfellas and Casino, not to mention the wholesale
>gang-slaughter in his latest!
>
>Matt.
>
>
Hehe, actually, yes, I DID have my eyes wide shut for those films! I
think probably just as disturbing to me at the end of "Taxi Driver",
though, was when they showed De Niro covered with blood with this
glassy look in his eyes, pointing his finger to his head like a gun
and saying "Pow...pow...pow" over and over. Actually, "GoodFellas"
and "GONY" weren't as violent to me as I expected (I did shut my eyes
a few times but only for about one or two seconds).
To me, it seems like the violence in Martin's films isn't so much as
it's so gory, but that it happens so fast, but then it usually ends
fast, too; he doesn't seem to wallow in it a lot like some other
filmmakers. I can't help but think of the Pacino/De Palma version of
"Scarface", which I thought was just ridiculously over the top (and I
personally thought that it was a really stupid film, no offense
intended to you folks who do like "Scarface").
Oh, going off track again, I don't know how many of you watched the
"Monty Python's Flying Circus" TV series, but they had one sketch
called something like, " 'Afternoon Tea Party', by Sam Peckinpah"
which I thought was hilarious!
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Robbo
Years ago I saw a laserdisc of 3 Scorsese short films. I think it was
titled "Three by Scorsese" In the last short it was a documentary on
his friend who played the gun dealer in Taxi Driver. He tells many
stories, including one of a junkie that had overdosed. It is word for
word the scene from Pulp Fiction. I guess Tarantino saw that short
too...