OT: BEING THERE
Peter Tonguette
Was just watching Hal Ashby's "Being There," with Peter Sellers, and thought
I'd bring it up to the group. Besides being a great work (IMO) in it's own
right -- and certainly one of Ashby's two or three greatest films (From a
director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a single Ashby
film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was on the
recent A.F.I. 100 Best List), it also has several interesting
connections/homages to Kubrick's work: The casting of Peter Sellers, in
probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and "Lolita"; a
scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001," with the
music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera angles.
On a deeper level, in shares with Kubrick's work -- especially "Strangelove,"
his only overt political satire -- an ability to say a lot of things without
looking like it's trying to make a point. More recently, it was compared to
Peter Weir's "The Truman Show" (Discussed a bit in a thread a week or so ago),
although that film seems to be more in line with the themes and obsessions
common to all of Weir's films -- the individual's place in society, a person's
status in a world he did not create. To the contrary, "Being There" is about
those themes and more: the gullability of politicians and the general public to
mindless platitudes ("Spring is a time for planting!" always has me laughing)
and our willingness to believe what we see.
Ashby himself deserves some comparison to Kubrick: Both filmmakers produced a
small body of work (Shortened, sadly, in both cases by death) and both tackled
a wide variety of genres and styles while still retaining their own unique
unifying vision. You might even go so far as to compare...
The Last Detail=Full Metal Jacket
Coming Home=Paths of Glory
Being There=Dr. Strangelove
Thoughts/comments/corrections?
Peter
Wordsmith
delt3...@aol.com (Peter Tonguette) wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was just watching Hal Ashby's "Being There," with Peter Sellers, and
thought
> I'd bring it up to the group. Besides being a great work (IMO) in
it's own
> right -- and certainly one of Ashby's two or three greatest films
(From a
> director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a
single Ashby
> film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was
on the
> recent A.F.I. 100 Best List), it also has several interesting
> connections/homages to Kubrick's work: The casting of Peter Sellers,
in
> probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and
"Lolita"; a
> scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001,"
with the
> music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera
angles.
Sellers was, as usual, wonderful in *Being There*, but that movie went
on waaaaaay tooooo loooooong for me. At least twenty minutes could have
been cut from it and still retained its dramatic impact. Some say
certain SK films (*TS* and *BL*) suffer from the same overkill, but I'll
take Kubrickian flab over Ashby flab any day.
By the way, *The Last Detail* and *FMJ* share an identical line:
"You're my favorite turd."
Wordsmith : )
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Christer Emanuelsson
Peter Tonguette wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was just watching Hal Ashby's "Being There," with Peter Sellers, and thought
> I'd bring it up to the group. Besides being a great work (IMO) in it's own
> right -- and certainly one of Ashby's two or three greatest films (From a
> director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a single Ashby
> film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was on the
> recent A.F.I. 100 Best List), it also has several interesting
> connections/homages to Kubrick's work: The casting of Peter Sellers, in
> probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and "Lolita"; a
> scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001," with the
> music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera angles.
>
> On a deeper level, in shares with Kubrick's work -- especially "Strangelove,"
> his only overt political satire -- an ability to say a lot of things without
> looking like it's trying to make a point. More recently, it was compared to
> Peter Weir's "The Truman Show" (Discussed a bit in a thread a week or so ago),
> although that film seems to be more in line with the themes and obsessions
> common to all of Weir's films -- the individual's place in society, a person's
> status in a world he did not create. To the contrary, "Being There" is about
> those themes and more: the gullability of politicians and the general public to
> mindless platitudes ("Spring is a time for planting!" always has me laughing)
> and our willingness to believe what we see.
>
> Ashby himself deserves some comparison to Kubrick: Both filmmakers produced a
> small body of work (Shortened, sadly, in both cases by death) and both tackled
> a wide variety of genres and styles while still retaining their own unique
> unifying vision. You might even go so far as to compare...
> The Last Detail=Full Metal Jacket
> Coming Home=Paths of Glory
> Being There=Dr. Strangelove
>
> Thoughts/comments/corrections?
>
> Peter
Peter Weir and now Hal Ashby.. Is there any director you don't admire? :-)
Chris
Peter Tonguette
>Peter Weir and now Hal Ashby.. Is there any director you >don't admire? :-)
Well, Weir and Ashby are two of my favorite filmmakers. And, to be honest, I
think that there is something to take from just about any film -- whether a
great shot or an interesting performance or even a single sequence that remains
in memory. I suppose that the definition of a great film is a combination of
all of those elements. But even in the most clearly flawed works, I find there
is always something to learn from -- even if it is a lesson on how *not* to do
it, if I'm ever as lucky to become a director someday.
Peter
rick nelson
Wordsmith wrote:
> By the way, *The Last Detail* and *FMJ* share an identical line:
>
> "You're my favorite turd."
>
> Wordsmith : )
That could be because that was a commom expression in the American male
testosterone driven vernacular of the '60' and '70s. Kind of a male
bonding thing, y'see.
rick
M4RV1N
><19991030155420...@ng-fa1.aol.com>
>
writes:
>Was just watching Hal Ashby's "Being There," with Peter Sellers, and thought
>I'd bring it up to the group. Besides being a great work (IMO)
Mine as well. I think it's one of the truly great masterpieces of the last
quarter century. I didn't think that until I'd seen it a few times and could
look beyond the rather obvious comedy to see the deeper issues.
in it's own
>right -- and certainly one of Ashby's two or three greatest films (From a
>director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a single
>Ashby
>film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was on the
>recent A.F.I. 100 Best List),
When that list was released the general reaction around here was that it was
just about as credible an evaluation of film as are the Academy Awards (which
is to say, not even worth laughing at).
> it also has several interesting
>connections/homages to Kubrick's work: The casting of Peter Sellers, in
>probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and "Lolita"; a
>scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001," with the
>music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera angles.
>
The references are not just a tip o' the hat to SK; Ashby uses them to great
effect in developing his themes. "2001" is used as an icon of cultural
significance. The trivialized but very listenable jazz version of "Also
Sprach" is heard when Chance is "born" in emerging from his isolation after
"the old man" has died in bed.
>On a deeper level, in shares with Kubrick's work -- especially "Strangelove,"
>his only overt political satire -- an ability to say a lot of things without
>looking like it's trying to make a point.
I think Ashby's film expands on the novel's (Kazinki's) intent to satirize the
shallowness of American culture, and instead takes on a wider
metaphysical/philosophical intent with regards to the human need for religious
and spiritual leaders without any proviso that they have any intelligence
whatever.
>More recently, it was compared to
>Peter Weir's "The Truman Show" (Discussed a bit in a thread a week or so
>ago),
A watchable but far inferior work, in my view.
>although that film seems to be more in line with the themes and obsessions
>common to all of Weir's films -- the individual's place in society, a
>person's
>status in a world he did not create.
But "Truman" is thoroughly displaced from reality such that the whole of the
film is largely a stunt. "Being There" seems completely believable in its
insights about the minds of the rich and political sophisticates, and their
helpless ignorance.
>To the contrary, "Being There" is about
>those themes and more: the gullability of politicians and the general public
>to
>mindless platitudes ("Spring is a time for planting!" always has me laughing)
>and our willingness to believe what we see.
Yes, but it's not just gullability. Chance draws these people to him as if he
were a messiah, making them feel real for the first time in their pathetically
emtpy lives. His ignorance is what keeps him from adopting the false
platitudes of those around him. They take this blind honesty as a healing of
their inner needs. I could go on about this film but we are off topic... :)
>Ashby himself deserves some comparison to Kubrick: Both filmmakers produced a
>small body of work (Shortened, sadly, in both cases by death) and both
>tackled
>a wide variety of genres and styles while still retaining their own unique
>unifying vision.
Well, comparing the two is somewhat difficult for me. I think Ashby's work was
compromised at times because he could not gain the autonomy he needed within
the Hollywood system. He seemed to have gained that control with BT, and not
long afterward he died.
Ashby was not a great intellect, he was more a sensitive counterculture
holdover from the sixties. I think BT is his one lone masterpiece although
certainly "Harold and Maude" is a great black comedy. "Last Detail" and
"Shampoo" are both good films far above the Hollywood standard of their day.
"Coming Home" is well acted, if heavy handed in delivering its message. "Bound
for Glory" is beautifully shot film which could have used a better screenplay.
Ashby is more a personal favorite than a great film artist to me. But having
said that, I'd still place "Being There" among the best 50 or so American
films. It's a deeply moving and thought provoking film.
Mark Ervin
Peter Tonguette
(minor snips throughout)
>>Peter Tonguette, in:
>><19991030155420...@ng-fa1.aol.com>
>>
>writes:
>
>>Was just watching Hal Ashby's "Being There," with Peter Sellers, and thought
>>I'd bring it up to the group. Besides being a great work (IMO)
>
>Mine as well. I think it's one of the truly great masterpieces of the last
>quarter century. I didn't think that until I'd seen it a few times and could
>look beyond the rather obvious comedy to see the deeper issues.
I had a similar response -- much like with Kubrick's films, it takes several
viewings (alright, more than just several!) to understand the totality of the
work. I think that my initial response was actually somewhat negative -- it
seemed almost like a skit stretched out to feature length. Only through
subsequent viewings have I appreciated it as the masterpiece I now think it is.
> in it's own
>>right -- and certainly one of Ashby's two or three greatest films (From a
>>director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a single
>>Ashby
>>film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was on the
>>recent A.F.I. 100 Best List),
>
>When that list was released the general reaction around here was that it was
>just about as credible an evaluation of film as are the Academy Awards (which
>is to say, not even worth laughing at).
The trouble I have with the Academy Awards is how maddeningly consistent they
are: the interesting, offbeat films (That catch on with the public, mind you --
there are plenty of interesting, offbeat films that never get little more than
a mention on the list of films that *should* have been nominated) get the
Screenplay awards; the romantic dramas get the Picture/Director prizes, etc.
And, in the end, it has so little to do with the quality of the work -- and a
lot to do with mindless politics.
>> it also has several interesting
>>connections/homages to Kubrick's work: The casting of Peter Sellers, in
>>probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and "Lolita";
>a
>>scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001," with the
>>music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera angles.
>>
>
>The references are not just a tip o' the hat to SK; Ashby uses them to great
>effect in developing his themes. "2001" is used as an icon of cultural
>significance. The trivialized but very listenable jazz version of "Also
>Sprach" is heard when Chance is "born" in emerging from his isolation after
>"the old man" has died in bed.
A very interesting observation.
>>On a deeper level, in shares with Kubrick's work -- especially
>"Strangelove,"
>>his only overt political satire -- an ability to say a lot of things without
>>looking like it's trying to make a point.
>
>I think Ashby's film expands on the novel's (Kazinki's) intent to satirize
>the
>shallowness of American culture, and instead takes on a wider
>metaphysical/philosophical intent with regards to the human need for
>religious
>and spiritual leaders without any proviso that they have any intelligence
>whatever.
This is what I took from the film as well (Without ever having read the
Kozinski novel, keep in mind); it is about our need for icons, for leaders, and
our low standard for what ideas these leaders embody.
>>More recently, it was compared to
>>Peter Weir's "The Truman Show" (Discussed a bit in a thread a week or so
>>ago),
>
>A watchable but far inferior work, in my view.
I would disagree -- I think that they are vastly different films, as you point
out, if nothing else in tone. Whereas "Being There" is a realistic, or
realisitically portrayed film, "Truman" is more of an allegory, more removed
from reality. In this sense, they truly are incomparable. I would still say
that both films do share similar themes -- and, by simply including shots of
Truman's viewing audience, Weir made television a dominant theme, if somewhat
over-hyped theme, of the film, although I see it as a much broader story and in
keeping with themes that have been surfacing in most of Weir's work over the
years.
>>Ashby himself deserves some comparison to Kubrick: Both filmmakers produced
>a
>>small body of work (Shortened, sadly, in both cases by death) and both
>>tackled
>>a wide variety of genres and styles while still retaining their own unique
>>unifying vision.
>
>Well, comparing the two is somewhat difficult for me. I think Ashby's work
>was
>compromised at times because he could not gain the autonomy he needed within
>the Hollywood system. He seemed to have gained that control with BT, and not
>long afterward he died.
"Being There" was, sadly, probably his last true masterpiece. His final few
films were almost all released in truncated forms (And a few of which I haven't
even been able to find on tape).
>Ashby was not a great intellect, he was more a sensitive counterculture
>holdover from the sixties. I think BT is his one lone masterpiece although
>certainly "Harold and Maude" is a great black comedy. "Last Detail" and
>"Shampoo" are both good films far above the Hollywood standard of their day.
>"Coming Home" is well acted, if heavy handed in delivering its message.
>"Bound
>for Glory" is beautifully shot film which could have used a better
>screenplay.
>
>Ashby is more a personal favorite than a great film artist to me. But having
>said that, I'd still place "Being There" among the best 50 or so American
>films. It's a deeply moving and thought provoking film.
>
Agree on all points. Thanks for your very perceptive response, Mark.
Peter
meanmag
Kubrick in particular, see MEAN Magazine #5, still on sale for $3.95 for three more
weeks. We did a 22-page section--it's over 30,000 words long. Includes capsules
reviews, interviews with Nile Southern [Terry's son], Victoria Sellers, and Joe
McGrath [director of Magic Christian and half of Casino Royale], plus lotsa rare
goodies....
If you can't find a copy, order direct from us. Ordering info is available at
http://www.meanmag.com
cheers
kelpzoidzl
kelpzoidzl
kelpzoidzl
About Luana Anders excellent article. Anders talked Nicolson into acting classes with her. Robert Altman credited his career to her. Friends with Coppola. Big Hal Ashby connection as well.
http://starletshowcase.blogspot.com/2008/05/happy-birthday-luana-anders.html
kelpzoidzl
david...@gmail.com
> Hi everyone,
>
> director whose work is far too often neglected these days -- not a single Ashby
> film, not "Last Detail," "Bound for Glory," "Harold and Maude," was on the
> probably one of his best performances since "Dr. Strangelove" and "Lolita"; a
> scene in the first half hour is a pretty obvious homage to "2001," with the
> music "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and some very "Kubrickian" camera angles.
>
> his only overt political satire -- an ability to say a lot of things without
> common to all of Weir's films -- the individual's place in society, a person's
> mindless platitudes ("Spring is a time for planting!" always has me laughing)
> and our willingness to believe what we see.
>
> small body of work (Shortened, sadly, in both cases by death) and both tackled
> a wide variety of genres and styles while still retaining their own unique
> The Last Detail=Full Metal Jacket
> Coming Home=Paths of Glory
> Being There=Dr. Strangelove
>
>
> Thoughts/comments/corrections?
>
> Peter
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