The Shining -- Exploitation of Native Americans?
Slyke
I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
forgive me.
About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
A few points he suggested --
- Kubrick's version includes a reference (absent from King's novel) to the
fact that the hotel had been built over an Indian burial ground.
Presumably the elevator shafts from which blood gushes in Danny's
hallucination have their source there.
- Danny's trick of retracing his steps in the hedge maze (again, absent
from King's novel) is a method often used by Indians.
- The opening montage (featuring Wagnerian music and film of the family
driving in a Volkswagen) reeks of Nazi subtext and serves to frame the
whole film in a genocidal context.
- The boxes of Calumet (meaning "peace pipe") baking powder in the pantry
are neatly aligned when they are first shown, but in a state of disarray
when Jack makes a false promise to Wendy -- a symbol of broken treaties
between tribes and the U.S. government.
There were scores of others which truly convinced me that this may have
been what SK had in mind when he made the film.
Anyone else familiar with the article? Any thoughts?
Bryant Arnett
Hi, Craig.
> > About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
> > convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
> > allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
>
> I've heard of this article but never read it. I'd say that it might very
> well be. However, since the cook is not an Indian, I'd generalize it to
> "minorities" and not just "Indians."
I have to agree with you there. The Shining definitely has some racial
themes. I just recently read the article myself. It's at:
http://www.netins.net/showcase/sahaja/blakemore.html
I think the whole idea is really preposterous. Of course, a film like
this is always open to interpretation, and I would never say a person is
wrong in what they think they saw, but I can say that I myself do not
see *anything* at all that would lead me to believe Kubrick intended The
Shining to say anything about the white man's treatment of Native
Americans.
Sure, there are cans of Calumet backing powder on the shelves in the
store room, but there are also cans of Tang (not to mention the Post
Toasties, Corn Flakes, Sugar Puffs...and seven kinds of what-have-you).
Yes, it's true that Hallorann has a can of Calumet right over his
shoulder as he makes his "treaty" of ice cream with Danny, but what
about that box of Willapoint Minced Clams strategically placed over
Danny's shoulder? What are we supposed to think of that?
There are several other things in the article that made me chuckle. For
instance, the author sites the reason the hotel is called the Overlook
(quote):
"The Shining is also explicitly about America's general inability to
admit to the gravity of the genocide of the Indians -- or, more exactly,
its ability to "overlook" that genocide."
Hmmm... Can't say I see it the same way. Here is another quote:
"The Shining ends with an extremely long camera shot moving down a
hallway in the Overlook, reaching eventually the central photo among 21
photos on the wall. The caption reads: "Overlook Hotel-July 4th
Ball-1921." The answer to this puzzle, which is a master key to
unlocking the whole movie, is that most Americans overlook the fact that
July Fourth was no ball, nor any kind of Independence day, for native
Americans; that the weak American villain of the film is the
re-embodiment of the American men who massacred the Indians in earlier
years..."
*That* is the key to unlocking the whole movie? What about the billions
of other people in the world who also share the feeling that July 4th is
no ball, nor any kind of Independence Day?
I personally feel that the movie contains so much Indian imagery because
it is a very spiritual and beautiful style of art. My feeling, when I
first saw the Overlook, was of awe. All of the horror which follows
later is very un-indian.
jack
Curtiss Hammock
In article <19970306014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com
(Slyke) wrote:
>- Kubrick's version includes a reference (absent from King's novel) to the
>fact that the hotel had been built over an Indian burial ground.
>Presumably the elevator shafts from which blood gushes in Danny's
>hallucination have their source there.
I don't recall the Indian burial ground. Where is it mentioned?
>- The opening montage (featuring Wagnerian music and film of the family
>driving in a Volkswagen) reeks of Nazi subtext and serves to frame the
>whole film in a genocidal context.
This seems like a bit of a stretch. For one thing, the music isn't Wagner,
it's Belioz. And I always figured they were driving a Volkswagen because
they were poor.
>- The boxes of Calumet (meaning "peace pipe") baking powder in the pantry
>are neatly aligned when they are first shown, but in a state of disarray
>when Jack makes a false promise to Wendy -- a symbol of broken treaties
>between tribes and the U.S. government.
Sounds like another stretch, but not quite as bad a one.
Does anyone know if SK had any of this in mind? It has sure never occurred
to me.
Curtiss
________________________________________________________
| _________ |
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| MacBeth Design | /- -\ | |
| Online Macintosh Users' Group | <\@]@/> | |
| Atlanta, GA, USA | \~/ | |
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jsp...@interaccess.com
Craig Shoemaker wrote:
>
> One more thing, which I remember exclaiming about to my friends when this
> movie first came out. Another great point of tension is when Jack is
> locked in the food room, and a ghost, of all things!, a ghost, which has no
> physical form, a ghost unlocks it!!!!! Wow!
>
It's the short silent pause followed by the sound of the latch being
opened that really gives that moment its punch.
Brilliantly directed.
Jeff
geoffrey alexander
> I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
> forgive me.
>
> About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
> convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
> allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
>
> A few points he suggested --
[....]
>
> Anyone else familiar with the article? Any thoughts?
The article is reproduced at our website, if anyone needs a refresher. I
think the author was Bill Blakemore.
Geoffrey Alexander
__________________________________________________________
If you can talk brilliantly enough about a problem, it can
create the consoling illusion that it has been mastered...
Stanley Kubrick
__________________________________________________________
The Kubrick Site @ http://www.netins.net/showcase/sahaja
geoffrey alexander
In article <craig.shoemaker-ya023...@news.his.com>,
craig.s...@his.com (Craig Shoemaker) wrote:
> In article <19970306014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com
> (Slyke) wrote:
>
> > I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
> > forgive me.
>
> I'm new to this group also. No one seems to want to tell me what Kubrick
> has been up to since Full Metal Jacket; let me know via e-mail if you
> know.
What we've tried to tell you, Craig, is that he's not been up to anything
-- in terms of new films being released. His next film after FMJ is due in
December.
Geoffrey
tak
sl...@aol.com (Slyke) wrote:
>I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
>forgive me.
>
>convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
>allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
>
>A few points he suggested --
>
>fact that the hotel had been built over an Indian burial ground.
>Presumably the elevator shafts from which blood gushes in Danny's
>hallucination have their source there.
>- Danny's trick of retracing his steps in the hedge maze (again, absent
>from King's novel) is a method often used by Indians.
>
>- The opening montage (featuring Wagnerian music and film of the family
>driving in a Volkswagen) reeks of Nazi subtext and serves to frame the
>whole film in a genocidal context.
The opening music is Wendy Carlos' take on the 'Dies Irae' which predates
Wagner by about 600 years.
>- The boxes of Calumet (meaning "peace pipe") baking powder in the pantry
>are neatly aligned when they are first shown, but in a state of disarray
>when Jack makes a false promise to Wendy -- a symbol of broken treaties
>between tribes and the U.S. government.
>
>There were scores of others which truly convinced me that this may have
>been what SK had in mind when he made the film.
>
>Anyone else familiar with the article? Any thoughts?
I, for one, would be interested in reading this article in its entirety,
because I have yet to be completely convinced about the importance of the
native subtext as anything other than a visual motif.
Mt
ronie_j_whalen
In article <geoffrey-ya023380...@news.netins.net>, geof...@netins.net says...
>
>In article <19970306014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com
>(Slyke) wrote:
>
>> I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
>> forgive me.
>>
>> About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
>> convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
>> allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
>>
>> A few points he suggested --
>>
>> Anyone else familiar with the article? Any thoughts?
>
>think the author was Bill Blakemore.
>
>Geoffrey Alexander
>__________________________________________________________
>
>If you can talk brilliantly enough about a problem, it can
>create the consoling illusion that it has been mastered...
> Stanley Kubrick
>__________________________________________________________
>
>The Kubrick Site @ http://www.netins.net/showcase/sahaja
I would like to ask all of you in the alt.movies.kubrick group
what do we think of the new casting in King's re-make of The Shining ?
Will Steven Weber (who stars as Brian Hackett on Wings-the finale of the
show is May 21) be a scarry as the daddy gone mad ? Will Rebecca DeMoraney
be one angry mother as she defends her son against his possed daddy ? And
what how will the performances of Courtland Mead as Danny, Melvin Van Peebles
as Halloran, Pat Hingle at Watson, Stanley Anderson as Grady compare to those
of the actors who portrayed the characters in the original film ? What do you
think of the casting ? And what do you think of the choice of director for
the project...Mick Garris ? Thank you!
Your's truly, Ronie J Whalen!
John Benjamin Strelow
craig.s...@his.com (Craig Shoemaker) wrote:
>In article <19970306014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com
>(Slyke) wrote:
>
>> I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
>> forgive me.
>
>has been up to since Full Metal Jacket; let me know via e-mail if you
>know.
>
THE MAN HAS NOT MADE A DAMN THING SINCE FMJ. Moving on:
>>
>> About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
>> convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
>> allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
>I've heard of this article but never read it. I'd say that it might very
>well be.
I believe it's on the website. Check out one of Geoffrey Alexander's
posts for the hyperlink.
>>
>> A few points he suggested --
>>
>
etc.
I find this theory fascinating, but quite a stretch. I ask those who
believe in it what good it would do SK to bury this message so deep that
it takes several viewings with the intent of finding something like this
in order to find it.
John Strelow
jstr...@ucla.edu
geoffrey alexander
In article <5fn983$r...@lana.zippo.com>, Ronie J Whalen wrote:
> >I, for one, would be interested in reading this article in its entirety,
> >because I have yet to be completely convinced about the importance of the
> >native subtext as anything other than a visual motif.
> >
> >Mt
> >
> The Kubrick Site where
Ronnie and Derek, why not go to The Kubrick Site directly? :) Though
Patrick Larkin's site you mention is also good if you are interested in
images from the films (we have yet to create a really definitive image
archive, though....).
I'm a little ahead of schedule this evening and most of the upgraded site
is back online:
The Kubrick Site @ http://www.netins.net/showcase/sahaja
Enjoy.
Geoffrey
Robert...@teleport.com
> Craig Shoemaker wrote:
> One more thing, which I remember exclaiming about to my friends when this
> movie first came out. Another great point of tension is when Jack is
> locked in the food room, and a ghost, of all things!, a ghost, which has no
> physical form, a ghost unlocks it!!!!! Wow!
>>>>
Actually the viewer is not shown who opens the cooler....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
geoffrey alexander
> > Craig Shoemaker wrote:
>
> > One more thing, which I remember exclaiming about to my friends when this
> > movie first came out. Another great point of tension is when Jack is
> > locked in the food room, and a ghost, of all things!, a ghost, which has no
> > physical form, a ghost unlocks it!!!!! Wow!
>
> >>>>
>
> Actually the viewer is not shown who opens the cooler....
In the original screenplay, the door is opened by Grady although when Jack
leaves the cooler, speaking to Grady, only Grady's voice is present. The
end of the scene was cut when the dialog was cut. There should be no
question that Grady opens the door.
Geoffrey
geoffrey alexander
In article <33207D...@worldnet.att.net>, db...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> John Benjamin Strelow wrote:
> >
> > I find this theory fascinating, but quite a stretch. I ask those who
> > believe in it what good it would do SK to bury this message so deep that
> > it takes several viewings with the intent of finding something like this
> > in order to find it.
> >
> > John Strelow
> > jstr...@ucla.edu
>
> That's the fun of Kubrick's movies--careful multiple viewings are
> rewarded. I always assumed the Overlook's constuction on an Indian
> burial ground had something to do with its psychic infestation. Even
> though I never noticed this exploitation theme, I'll look for the above
> meantioned cues in my next viewing. I like hearing novel
> interpretations because I know I can't be picking up on everything
> myself.
>
> Doug
What Kubrick proposes, takes >armies< of men to, um, disposes.... :)
g.
tak
In article <craig.shoemaker-ya023...@news.his.com>,
craig.s...@his.com says...
>
>In article <19970306014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com
>(Slyke) wrote:
>
>> I'm new to this group, so if I'm going back over old ground, please
>> forgive me.
>
>I'm new to this group also. No one seems to want to tell me what Kubrick
>has been up to since Full Metal Jacket; let me know via e-mail if you
>know.
>
Kubrick hasn't made any films since FMJ (tho not for lack of effort,
apparantly). Eyes Wide Shut should be out in December.
Mt
ho...@aol.com
>John Benjamin Strelow wrote:
>>
>> I find this theory fascinating, but quite a stretch. I ask those who
>> believe in it what good it would do SK to bury this message so deep that
>> it takes several viewings with the intent of finding something like this
>> in order to find it.
>>
>> John Strelow
>> jstr...@ucla.edu
>
>That's the fun of Kubrick's movies--careful multiple viewings are
>rewarded. I always assumed the Overlook's constuction on an Indian
>burial ground had something to do with its psychic infestation. Even
>though I never noticed this exploitation theme, I'll look for the above
>meantioned cues in my next viewing. I like hearing novel
>interpretations because I know I can't be picking up on everything
>myself.
>
>
Try it -- I watched the movie with this in mind, and it all made sense -- especially with the running theme of denial in Nicholson's character. We're talking about denial of genocide (or child abuse) from the "top of the hill" in the "Overlook" hotel!?
--Z
DepttyBob
You know, I think many of you folks are right about this point, but maybe
in the wrong way... I think it is more a motif than a theme, and I think
Kubrick is generally making a side-comment about American genocide, but
really-- "Overlook"?? Good Lord. Has no one thought about the flaw with
this train of thought: it was KING who named the hotel?!
Now, with that removed as a factor, the Native genocide idea does become
more a side-issue than the real issue. Certainly the insanity/banality of
Euro-folks is a strong theme, and infanticide (pursuit of Danny) an
equally evil example of the sort of action Torrance/Insane EuroDescendant
would take. In other words--in case I am being a bit muddled here, which I
think I am--Kubrick is stating that the criminal mind, capable of
infanticide, is just as capable of genocide.
Upon remembering a related quote, I realized a fact that will support the
NA/Genocide theme: the massacre of Arapaho Indians at Sand Creek,
Colorado. I forget the year precisely, but it was in the 1880's that Col.
Chivington ordered the annihilation of 300 (at least) mainly elderly,
women, and young Indians in a village at Sand Creek as a result of the
murder of *four* white townspeople--said murder possibly at the hands of
white bandits. When he was questioned about whether the children should be
killed as well, Col. Chivington replied, "Nits make lice."
This event created a furor both nationally and internationally when it
became apparent how bloodthirsty Chivington and his men were. (Not enough
of a furor to get the US Army to admit to its errors and punish
Chivington...rather, his recommendation stood and the official Army story
of their "gallant defense" or somesuch remained.) Kubrick, a keen student
of history, has to have known about Sand Creek...and was making a valid
comment about the bloodthirstiness and insanity of the Euro male.
How about that. I started off with a mild refutation and convinced myself
of your point. Well, no one ever said I was balanced.... :)
Dep
LIFE IS GOOD...........until further notice
Nothin' matters, and what if it did...
Bret Boulter
DepttyBob wrote:
>
> You know, I think many of you folks are right about this point, but maybe
> in the wrong way... I think it is more a motif than a theme, and I think
> Kubrick is generally making a side-comment about American genocide, but
> really-- "Overlook"?? Good Lord. Has no one thought about the flaw with
> this train of thought: it was KING who named the hotel?!
As King supporters often complain, if something doesn't work for Kubrick
he changes it. If he doesn't change it, it's because it works for him
in some way. Whether or not leaving the hotel's name as "Overlook" had
anything to do with a side-comment about American genocide is up for
debate, but just because King thought up the name doesn't mean Kubrick
didn't have his own reason for keeping it.
Slyke
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I don't think SK does anything by accident -- whether it's making a change
from the original text or maintaining the original. Ergo, everything is
potentially suffused with meaning.
agnos...@gmail.com
> Hi, Craig.
> > > About 10 years ago the Washington Post ran a piece which argued -- quite
> > > convincingly IMHO -- that Kubrick's version of The Shining is really an
> > > allegory for the abuse of Native Americans.
> >
> > I've heard of this article but never read it. I'd say that it might very
Jan Bielawski
and endow it with "meaning".
Art is not about "hiding" anything, art is not about symbols (they are just a tool).
--
Jan