NFB-317 from Psycho
David Sticher
plate stand for Norman's initials; however, I can't think of what the last
three digits could possibly mean. Is there some significance?
- Dave
--
Rev. David Sticher
http://davidsticher.isonfire.com
...And so forth.
Bill Myers
patron saint of birds (a major theme in the movie). I've never read
anything with the numbers.
Bill
David Sticher <rsti...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rstiche1-160...@cm-24-29-82-181.nycap.rr.com...
Iksnamhcok
>three digits could possibly mean.
Don't know about the 317 in NFB, but have you read "The Films of Alfred
Hitchcock" by David Sterritt? In his chapter on Psycho, he attests to the
movie as an examination of anal retentiveness. Thus, Marion's license plate
number, ANL-709, suggesting the word "anal," with the "anuslike zero"
(Sterritt's words) between the two more substantive numbers. Fun reading, if
possibly loopy.
Bill Warren
>It is common knowledge that the first three letters of Marion's license
>plate stand for Norman's initials; however, I can't think of what the last
>three digits could possibly mean. Is there some significance?
Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when they leased
it for the movie.
gregsfamous
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
> Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on
> the car when they leased
> it for the movie.
Maybe. Imo, the plate was too prominent on the screen for
the numbers to be left to chance, especially for such a
controlling director as AJH. Perhaps 317 is a date -- for
Americans, March 17; for Brits, July 31. I assume it is a
coincidence that, according to IMdB, Psycho was rereleased
in the UK on July 31, 1998.
(http://us.imdb.com/ReleaseDates?0054215)
Van Sant thought the license plate detail worthy of
inclusion in his 1998 remake.
Curt
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
cgarc...@my-deja.com
>
> >It is common knowledge that the first three letters of Marion's
license
> >plate stand for Norman's initials; however, I can't think of what
the last
> >three digits could possibly mean. Is there some significance?
>
they leased
> it for the movie.
>
You're kidding right? NOTHING Hitch did in his movies happened by
coincidence...The license plate was specifically ordered...you can bet
your boots on it!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Michael Brooke
> In article <19990916204903...@ng-ci1.aol.com>,
> bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
> > >From: rsti...@nycap.rr.com (David Sticher)
> >
> > >It is common knowledge that the first three letters of Marion's
> license
> > >plate stand for Norman's initials; however, I can't think of what
> the last
> > >three digits could possibly mean. Is there some significance?
> >
> > Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when
> they leased
> > it for the movie.
> >
>
>
> You're kidding right? NOTHING Hitch did in his movies happened by
> coincidence...The license plate was specifically ordered...you can bet
> your boots on it!
I suggest you read William Goldman's 'Adventures in the Screen Trade'
(specifically the chapter about over-earnest French film theorists)
before pushing this line of enquiry any further...
In any case, 'Psycho' was not only a low-budget film but it was financed
by Hitchcock himself after he failed to get financial backing from
Paramount. Do you *seriously* think Hitchcock - who was notoriously
tight when it came to spending his own money - would have wasted it on a
specialised number plate when its "meaning" would only appeal to anal
retentives with far too much time on their hands?
Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PARADISE GROVE - a film about life, death and the bit in the middle
starring Ron Moody, Rula Lenska, Lee Blakemore and Leyland O'Brien
http://www.filmsite.co.uk/paradisegrove
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Warren
>> Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when
>> they leased
>> > it for the movie.
>> >
>>
>>
>> You're kidding right? NOTHING Hitch did in his movies happened by
>> coincidence...The license plate was specifically ordered...you can bet
>> your boots on it!
>
Do you *seriously* think Hitchcock - who was notoriously
>tight when it came to spending his own money - would have wasted it on a
>specialised number plate when its "meaning" would only appeal to anal
>retentives with far too much time on their hands?
I didn't see the above response to my comment, but yours (Michael), is quite
good. I'd like to add that even on his HIGH budget movies, like any other
director, Hitchcock exercised control over those elements that he felt would
have the desired impact on audiences. This often include aspects like the
color of costumes, the design of sets (having been a set designer himself, of
course that would be an issue), etc. -- but >not always<. If he was shooting
on real locations, I doubt that he had trees moved or painted, highways
redirected, rivers dyed, etc. And I cannot imagine why he would think the
numbers and letters on a license plate would be of any interest to audiences,
or would have any impact at all, subliminal or otherwise. It simply would not
have been worth his time.
David Bridson
financed
> by Hitchcock himself after he failed to get financial backing from
> tight when it came to spending his own money - would have wasted it on
a
> specialised number plate when its "meaning" would only appeal to anal
> retentives with far too much time on their hands?
FYI, the odds of having the first three letters on a license plate the
same as the main character's initials are 1 in 17576 (i'm unfamiliar
with the U.S. license plate system so i'm assuming you can only have
letters, and you can have all letters). They're pretty steep odds. I'm
convinced that Hitch put it in there. As Hitch says in Hitch-Truffaut,
it's one of those touches you put in but the audience rarely realises.
David
Iksnamhcok
>convinced that Hitch put it in there.
Me too. NFB on one car, ANL on the other. Hardly seems random to me. Plus
Hitchcock focuses on them in close-up. Why bother if they were completely
random?
Bill Warren
>FYI, the odds of having the first three letters on a license plate the
>same as the main character's initials are 1 in 17576
Where do you get the idea that Norman's middle initial is F?
David Bridson
I got it from somewhere. Unfortunately, I can't remember where. I'm sure
it'll come back to me.
David
Iksnamhcok
>
>
F for Francis, as in "of Assisi." They both liked birds.
Irish Boxer
found in there (either Psycho or Psycho II).
On 02 Oct 1999 01:32:51 GMT, bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren)
wrote:
>>From: "David Bridson" the...@dbridson.freeserve.co.uk
>
>>FYI, the odds of having the first three letters on a license plate the
>>same as the main character's initials are 1 in 17576
>
Bill Warren
>If you read Robert Bloch's book which the film was based on, it's
>found in there (either Psycho or Psycho II).
I doubt it.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
> >From: mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk (Michael Brooke)
>
> >> Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when
> >> they leased
> >> > it for the movie.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> You're kidding right? NOTHING Hitch did in his movies happened by
> >> coincidence...The license plate was specifically ordered...you can
bet
> >> your boots on it!
> >
>
> >tight when it came to spending his own money - would have wasted it
on a
> >specialised number plate when its "meaning" would only appeal to anal
> >retentives with far too much time on their hands?
>
is quite
> good. I'd like to add that even on his HIGH budget movies, like any
other
> director, Hitchcock exercised control over those elements that he
felt would
> have the desired impact on audiences. This often include aspects
like the
> color of costumes, the design of sets (having been a set designer
himself, of
> course that would be an issue), etc. -- but >not always<. If he was
shooting
> on real locations, I doubt that he had trees moved or painted,
highways
> redirected, rivers dyed, etc. And I cannot imagine why he would
think the
> numbers and letters on a license plate would be of any interest to
audiences,
> or would have any impact at all, subliminal or otherwise. It simply
would not
> have been worth his time.
>
plate...because he knew no one would notice...NFB=Norman Francis(Saint
of birds) Bates...I suppose people of today's generations think movies
back then were shoddily thrown together like they are
today...sorry...the master was the exception!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Warren
>Right, that's why Hitch specifically took a close up of the license
>plate...because he knew no one would notice...NFB=Norman Francis(Saint
>of birds) Bates..
If you really think that Hitchcock would have spent HIS OWN money on such a
trifle, you don't understand the man.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
I've read up enough to know I understand the man...and the letters on
the license plate are there because he ordered them there...only a BAD
director would get a shot of a meaningless license plate number...and
on a close up no less!
Bill Warren
>I've read up enough to know I understand the man...and the letters on
>the license plate are there because he ordered them there...only a BAD
>director would get a shot of a meaningless license plate number...and
>on a close up no less!
Believe what you want, but there's absolutely no evidence that Hitchcock
ordered special license plates made. And no reason for him to do so.
Marmalade_Man
wrote:
>>From: rsti...@nycap.rr.com (David Sticher)
>
>>It is common knowledge that the first three letters of Marion's license
>>plate stand for Norman's initials; however, I can't think of what the last
>>three digits could possibly mean. Is there some significance?
>
>Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when they leased
>it for the movie.
>
Yes, I agree.
However, if it had been shot in Canada, I would have thought the car
was leased from the NFB - National Film Board (of Canada) :-)
k...@nwu.edu
>I've read up enough to know I understand the man...and the letters on
>the license plate are there because he ordered them there...only a BAD
>director would get a shot of a meaningless license plate number...and
>on a close up no less!
It's been about 17 years since I've seen PSYCHO, so take this for what it's
worth... The only "close up" on the license plate that I recall is the final
shot, and it seems to me the emphasis and point of that shot is *whose* car is
being pulled out of the swamp. *What* the license plate number happens to be
is totally irrelevant, as long as it matches the number used in other shots
where the plate may be prominent.
Questions:
1. Why would Hitchcock want the number on the plate to stand for Norman
Bates? It wasn't his car.
2. How could Hitchcock possibly expect the "F" to subliminally evoke "St.
Francis" in the mind of the typical moviegoer?
Hitchcock cared *very much* about how audiences would respond to particular
elements in his films. But using the letters "NFB" in the license plate
number to stand for "Norman Bates" makes no sense. Even if some particular
moviegoer happens to make such a connection, it is at best a redundancy. We
*know* that Norman is responsible; what more is there?
Kevin M. Randall
k...@nwu.edu
Rafael Fernando Sperb
>
>1. Why would Hitchcock want the number on the plate to stand for Norman
>Bates? It wasn't his car.
Because after she bought that car, Norman "got" her.
_______________
Rafael Fernando Sperb
rfs...@nh.conex.net
cgarc...@my-deja.com
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
> >From: cgarc...@my-deja.com
>
> >I've read up enough to know I understand the man...and the letters on
> >the license plate are there because he ordered them there...only a
BAD
> >director would get a shot of a meaningless license plate number...and
> >on a close up no less!
>
Hitchcock
> ordered special license plates made. And no reason for him to do so.
>
written by Hitchcock film scholar Dr. Donald Spoto...I met Dr. Spoto in
a Hitch Seminar many years ago...this man knew Hitch very well and
interviewed him on many occassions for his writings on him...In the
Book, on the section in Psycho, Dr. Spoto writes how NFB in the license
plate stands for Norman Francis(Saint of birds) Bates...do some
research and you'll understand why Hitch wasn't just another
filmmaker...the man was a genius.
Bill Warren
>>Questions:
>>
>>1. Why would Hitchcock want the number on the plate to stand for Norman
>>Bates? It wasn't his car.
>
>Because after she bought that car, Norman "got" her.
So what? Who's the "message" FOR? Hitchcock did not engage in a lot of waste
motion.
Bill Warren
>.In the
>Book, on the section in Psycho, Dr. Spoto writes how NFB in the license
>plate stands for Norman Francis(Saint of birds) Bates.
Many of Spoto's ideas about Hitchcock are utter hogwash. That's one of them.
>>..do some
>research and you'll understand why Hitch wasn't just another
>filmmaker..
I doubt that anyone here thinks that Hitchcock was "just another filmmaker", or
they wouldn't BE here.
Ask yourself this: WHY would Hitchcock BOTHER to "code" a license plate?
Cramnella
Artists routinely fill their works with in jokes, obscure references and hidden
symbols or clues.
Marc Allen
Bill Warren
Irish Boxer
wrote:
>>From: cram...@aol.com (Cramnella)
Bull Shit. Plenty of movies have in jokes and obcure refrences, you
just have to look closely enough. Watch some movies like Back to the
Future or Tvs Shows like the simpsons, they're filled with them.
Irish Boxer
01 Oct 1999 16:17:57 GMT, bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
>>From: mic...@everyman.demon.co.uk (Michael Brooke)
>
>>> Huh? The license plate is probably just what was on the car when
>>> they leased
>>> > it for the movie.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
Bill Warren
>Bull Shit. Plenty of movies have in jokes and obcure refrences, you
>just have to look closely enough. Watch some movies like Back to the
>Future or Tvs Shows like the simpsons, they're filled with them.
And fuck you. Obviously, you seem to think that the kind of comic references
used in those shows have some connection with Alfred Hitchcock and other
artists of the movies. You're full of it.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
> >From: cgarc...@my-deja.com
>
> >.In the
> >Book, on the section in Psycho, Dr. Spoto writes how NFB in the
license
> >plate stands for Norman Francis(Saint of birds) Bates.
>
> Many of Spoto's ideas about Hitchcock are utter hogwash. That's one
of them.
>
> >>..do some
> >research and you'll understand why Hitch wasn't just another
> >filmmaker..
>
> I doubt that anyone here thinks that Hitchcock was "just another
filmmaker", or
> they wouldn't BE here.
plate?
You're kidding right? Did you know that Hitch once threw a party and
had all the food in the room painted blue? Why would Hitch bother to do
that? Genius are borderline insane...I have absolutely no doubt that
Hitch had those plates specially made...look at the detail he puts in
all his movies...Look at Vertigo, when Scottie first sees Madelaine in
Ernie's, the room is highlighted with red all over...everyone in the
restaurant is wearing either blue or grey except for Madelain's bright
green...I suppose that was just what she wore that day too? Let me
restate my point...In the days when Hollywood WAS Hollywood, there was
a Master filmmaker who ruled...Psycho was a joke to Hitch in many ways,
the biggest joke of all was to Universal who really wanted no part of
it, so Hitch made the movie on his own budget...it went on to be his
biggest hit of alltime, making the Universal brass look like idiots...I
doubt that spending an extra $20 on a couple of license plates broke
Hitch's budget, but those plates do add to the movie...any film scholar
would tell you they were put there for a purpose...the close ups on
them is proof enough...Interesting thought...Psycho was to Hitch, what
Apocalypse Now was to Coppola...A film financed by the directors when
no studio would touch it. The master was in full control...to say those
plates were just what the car had on them when they were rented, well,
that makes about as much sense as saying the superimposed skull on
Norman's face in the end was just an accidental double exposure.
Bill Warren
>You're kidding right? Did you know that Hitch once threw a party and
>had all the food in the room painted blue?
That's quite an incredible association you're coming up with.
>.Look at Vertigo, when Scottie first sees Madelaine in
>Ernie's, the room is highlighted with red all over...everyone in the
>restaurant is wearing either blue or grey except for Madelain's bright
>green..
So is this. Because both depend on color, a huge wash of it, either in person
or on screen. There is a POINT to having Madeline stand out that way -- she's
making an intense impression on Scotty at that point.
There's utterly no point whatsoever in putting such a heavily coded
"message" in a license plate that nobody BUT NOBODY made the association.
Hitchcock did not do pointless things.
>Universal who really wanted no part of
>it, so Hitch made the movie on his own budget..
Wrong. The movie was made on Hitchcock's Paramount contract, not the later one
with Universal. Paramount DID put up some of the money, perhaps most --
sources differ -- while Hitchcock used his TV crew. The film was shot on the
Universal lot because that's where he made his TV series; it LATER became a
Universal release, along with several of the other Paramount films, because the
rights reverted to Hitchcock, and then to Universal because of his partnership
in MCA.
>.I
>doubt that spending an extra $20 on a couple of license plates broke
>Hitch's budget, but those plates do add to the movie...any film scholar
>would tell you they were put there for a purpose...
You're dead wrong there. The closeups have a function, as others here have
pointed out; there is not a single gratuitous shot of the plates just to get
them on screen.
prufro...@my-deja.com
reported on this forum, <alt.movies.hitchcock>, a few days ago, under
the heading 'That NFB numberplate', said numberplate was that of
assistant director Hilton Green. The array of letters (and numerals)
had no symbolic reference. The use of the close-up was simply part of
Hitchcock's involvement technique: 'the more you go into detail, the
more the audience identifies'. Of course, no-one would reasonably deny
that Hitch was perhaps the most painstaking of all directors - but in
this case, the explanation is what I have just given. And do beware of
Donald Spoto's flights of fancy that run through his books (which are
also full of good, hard research and insight - but no-one is perfect
...), leading him in this case to hypothesise - fantasise - that
Hitchcock was associating Norman Bates with Saint Francis. There is no
evidence for that. Don't be gullible!
- Ken Mogg (Ed., 'The MacGuffin').
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~muffin
Keith Holder
>are utter hogwash.
Ah, yes, warren-agenda pokes its, uh, head from the bowels of the
earth: Seldom allow an opportunity to pass without bashing Dr. Spoto.
Could it be, billy-boy that you are just a teeny-tiny bit jealous of his
success at getting =real= books published?
Your frequently lament over the awful frustration not being able to see
that long-promised tome on the EVIL DEAD in print. You once even sought
to lay blame at the feet of your pal Harlan Ellison!
As for your much-sought-after opinion on Spoto, I suppose it would
change considerably if Spoto even so much as acknowledged your
existence, much less praised all those brilliant articles you have
penned (q.v. Dan Auiler).
Keith Holder
>And fuck you. ... You're full of it.
Such a charmer.
Phrasemaker, too.
As always, words fail him.
Bill Warren
>As
>reported on this forum, <alt.movies.hitchcock>, a few days ago, under
>the heading 'That NFB numberplate', said numberplate was that of
>assistant director Hilton Green.
I guess I missed that. But Ken, you misunderstand the degree to which these
people idolize the wrong things about Hitchcock: one of them is liable to claim
that the reason Hitchcock hired Green was to get his license plate.....
Hughes
wrote:
>What does ANL stand for?
'Alfred Noseph Litchcock'.
--
I'm five so I should be able to write it.
prufro...@my-deja.com
Yes, one sometimes has that impression, Bill! But in this case, at
least, their theory doesn't jell, 'it isn't aspic'! And Hitch himself
taught us to beware of the villainous, rationalising Dr Hartz, who
claimed that 'my
theory is perfectly sound ... the facts were misleading'!
Though Hitch WAS a great perfectionist - where it mattered - he put the
emphasis on the human content of his films. So should we.
Speaking of which, Bill, I still regard MARNIE as a bloody (red-stained)
good film! (But I DID enjoy our little contretemps last year.)
Peace to all - Ken Mogg.
Iksnamhcok
Why not?
Bill Warren
>>WHY would Hitchcock BOTHER to "code" a license plate?
>
>Why not?
Because it costs money, takes time, no one would notice it, and it would be
utterly meaningless.
Iksnamhcok
Anal.
The movie has quite a few references to defecation.
Or at least so thinks David Sterritt. See his chapter on Psycho in The Films
of Alfred Hitchcock. Fun reading, even if you don't buy any of it.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
RFCSAC627N
>Warren) wrote:
>> >From: iksna...@aol.com (Iksnamhcok)
>>
>> >>WHY would Hitchcock BOTHER to "code" a license plate?
>> >
>> >Why not?
>>
>> Because it costs money, takes time, no one would notice it, and it
>would be
>> utterly meaningless.
>>
>
>No one noticed it, that's why this thread exists <g>
>
Certainly no one noticed it at the time.
Damien Taylor
Damien Taylor
I believe only a true artist in the field can
quaify an opinion on the subject. Are you an artist in the industry
Bilybond?
Damien Taylor
Damien Taylor
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) Re: NFB-317 from Psycho From:
cgarc...@my-deja.com I've read up enough to know I understand the
man...and the letters on the license plate are there because he ordered
them there...only a BAD director would get a shot of a meaningless
license plate number...and on a close up no less!
what you want, but there's absolutely no evidence that Hitchcock ordered
special license plates made. And no reason for him to do so.
No reason for him to do so. So then what you are saying is that you
understood everyhing Hitch did because you either read his thoughts
at the time he made the film, asked Jo Jo Chinto, or perhaps you are
Alfred Hitchcock himself.
I'll accept any of the above.
Now, back to reality. Of course Hitch left nothing to chance. This is
what made Hitch a genius. Every little detail in any of his films he
included, and not by chance. Even the contrast between black and white
clothes Marion wore throughout the film suggested good and evil. That is
one of the reasons PSYCHO is so brilliant.
AAnder8443
my direction -
WHO CARES?
Bill Warren
What's the point of a message like that? Obviously the people involved care.
If you don't, find, but don't insult other people whose interests don't
precisely coincide with yours. And that goes for people on BOTH sides of this
license plate discussion.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
people notice the license plates in this movie, but I'm willing to bet
that if you asked people what they noticed more, the license plates or
the picture covering up Norman's hole in the wall...I bet most people
remember the closeup of the plates and their letters...Not many people
know that the picture covering that hole in Norman's parlor is a
classical "rape". Now I'm not talking about Hitch students, I mean the
average person just watching the movie for the first time...the plates
appear in full closeups...the picture on the wall appears for about 1/2
second before Norman's shadow blocks the image from us...you want to
talk subtleness...why would the master show us a rape painting for 1/2
second, yet show us closeups of license plates for a much longer time?
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the plates issue, but for
someone to say those plates were probably the plates on the cars when
they rented them...well that makes about as much sense to me as someone
saying the painting on Norman's wall was just the first painting the
prop guys put on the wall the day of the shoot.
Damien Taylor
From: bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) Re: NFB-317 from Psycho
---------------------------------------------------------------
Who cares, asks Billybond? Well, he does. Billybonds' claim to fame is
his repeated attempts to "criminalize" anyones' opinion
which doesn't conform to Billybonds' "point
of view."
Should you fall victim to Billybonds'
wrath, you can expect your ISP to be contacted
by Billybond complaining he has been insulted
because someone posts a message Billybond doesn't like.
This is evident in his repeated attempts to have Keith
Holders' Web TV account removed, but so far he has been unsuccessful.
Yes, Billybond doesn't care about "venom" being thrown
around, just as long as it isn't being thrown in his direction. What a
joke.
Ditto for his NYC partner, Filmgene, who also LOVES to
complain to ISP's for the above mentioned.
Alfred must be rolling in his coffin.
Damien Taylor
Damien Taylor
From: rfcsa...@aol.com (RFCSAC627N) Re: NFB-317 from Psycho From:
cgarc...@my-deja.com Warren) wrote: From: iksna...@aol.com
(Iksnamhcok)
WHY would Hitchcock BOTHER to "code" a license plate?
Why not?
Because it costs money, takes time, no one would notice it, and it would
be utterly meaningless. No one noticed it, that's why this thread
Certainly no one noticed it at the time.
Back in the 50's Hitchcock was to people a popular director. No ne
really saw through his facade and knew him for the genius he was until
years later. So if the license plate meant very little to the audiences
of that era, it simply means that Hitch was applying his magic touch
without the audience knowing it. Blame the people for not having a clue,
instead of chalking it up as chance. (My last sentence was for
Billybond,, not you.)
Damien Taylor
From: cgarc...@my-deja.com Re: NFB-317 from Psycho
In article <19991009182030...@ng-fa1.aol.com>,
bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) wrote:
From: iksna...@aol.com (Iksnamhcok)
WHY would Hitchcock BOTHER to "code" a license plate?
Why not?
Because it costs money, takes time, no one would notice it, and it would
be utterly meaningless.
No one noticed it, that's why this thread exists <g>
Good point. Plus the fact that Hitch did several close-up shots of the
plate, (which also cost time and money Billybond), so I doubt Hitch left
anything in tose shots to chance. Even the pictures depicting birds in
cabin one offers the suggestion that his next film involved birds, which
by the way iy did.
Keith Holder
>asked:
>WHO CARES?
>bill...@aol.com (Bill Warren)
>responded:
>What's the point of a message like that?
>Obviously the people involved care. If you
>don't, find [sic], but don't insult other people
>whose interests don't precisely coincide
>with yours. And that goes for people on
>BOTH sides of this license plate
>discussion.
Countless times warren has posted epigrammatic remarks (albeit bereft
of any semblance of wit), so it is audaciously hypocritical and
typically preposterous for him to assail another for a similar post.
And, it is doubly hypocritical for Bill Warren to sputter in support of
good manners in this discussion when he recently posted "fuck you" to
one arguing the other side of the issue.
Captain Howdy
Miste...@webtv.net (Keith Holder) What a hippo-twit!
asked:
WHO CARES?
bill...@aol.com (Bill Warren)
responded:
What's the point of a message like that? Obviously the people involved
care. If you don't, find [sic], but don't insult other people whose
interests don't precisely coincide with yours. And that goes for people
on
BOTH sides of this license plate
discussion.
Countless times warren has posted epigrammatic remarks (albeit bereft of
any semblance of wit), so it is audaciously hypocritical and typically
preposterous for him to assail another for a similar post.
And, it is doubly hypocritical for Bill Warren to sputter in support of
good manners in this discussion when he recently posted "fuck you" to
one arguing the other side of the issue.
His language speaks volumes.
Iksnamhcok
>utterly meaningless.
Bill, I much respect your opinion, but in this case I must say, I don't buy
your logic.
Practically EVERY detail in a movie costs money, EVERY detail takes time, MOST
details go unnoticed, and thus MOST details are meaningless to MOST of the
audience. And yet filmmakers like Hitchcock still load up their pictures with
many seemingly trivial DETAILS that are somehow important to them.
Example:On Psycho, Hitchcock instructed his art directors to use a lot of
mirrors. This surely cost a few dollars, and the mirrors probably didn't even
register with the average viewer of 1960 screaming his/her head off at the
movie's shock scenes. Hitchcock could have left those walls bare and saved
himself some budget money. And yet Hitchcock, though ever the frugal
businessman, went ahead and worked in those mirrors.
I now know the story (proven?) about Hilton Green donating his own license
plate, but I still think it's possible, and maybe even probable, that Hitchcock
selected the letters NFB and ANL purposely.
Look at George Lucas with his insistence on working THX into all of his
pictures.
Or the Beatles planting all those silly "Paul is dead" clues on their album
covers. ( And don't tell me they didn't; they're obviously there.)
I don't see the NFB and ANL license plates as being terribly meaningful -- at
best they're nothing more than VERY subtle in-jokes -- but I nevertheless
suspect them to have been intentionally selected, and the main clue is that
they receive such focused attention in the film.
Rafael Fernando Sperb
>mirrors. This surely cost a few dollars, and the mirrors probably didn't even
>register with the average viewer of 1960 screaming his/her head off at the
>movie's shock scenes. Hitchcock could have left those walls bare and saved
>himself some budget money. And yet Hitchcock, though ever the frugal
>businessman, went ahead and worked in those mirrors.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about. What
mirrors ? I didn't see any mirrors in the film, except for the one in
Mrs. Bates' bedroom ...
_________________
Rafael Fernando Sperb
rfs...@nh.conex.net
Lasse Tveter Solbu
>mirrors ? I didn't see any mirrors in the film, except for the one in
>Mrs. Bates' bedroom ...
Mirrors occur frequently to show the person's concience. Looking at herself:
should I really be doing this?
Lasse Tveter Solbu.
Bill Warren
>Example:On Psycho, Hitchcock instructed his art directors to use a lot of
>mirrors
And he used them, too. And they already existed; he didn't have his production
designer MAKE the mirrors.
>I now know the story (proven?) about Hilton Green donating his own license
>plate, but I still think it's possible, and maybe even probable, that
>Hitchcock
>selected the letters NFB and ANL purposely.
And there we strongly disagree. I think it is utterly impossible that
Hitchcock would have had those made.
>Look at George Lucas with his insistence on working THX into all of his
>pictures.
(a) George Lucas is not Alfred Hitchcock. (b) The first time THX was "worked"
into a Lucas film -- after that movie itself, of course -- was on AMERICAN
GRAFFITI, where it was on Bob Falfa's license plate. And this >was not< done
by George Lucas. He liked the idea, though, and continued it. (c) It's not a
secret code. It's a direct running reference to a movie title.
Captain Howdy
From: dags...@online.no (Lasse Tveter Solbu) Re: NFB-317 from
Psycho
mirrors ? I didn't see any mirrors in the film, except for the one in
Mrs. Bates' bedroom ...
-------------------------------------------------------------
Better watch it again sport. For starters, the mirror in the used car
lot washroom.
Iksnamhcok
>Hitchcock would have had those made.
>
Utterly impossible? I think it's certainly possible. Moviemakers can have
practically anything made..
(c) It's not a secret code. It's a direct running reference to a movie title.
>
Secret to most people. My 13-year-old is a big Star Wars fan, he views George
Lucas as a hero, but he's only vaguely aware of THX-1138. "It's a movie, isn't
it? Did George Lucas make it?" I doubt whether any of his friends, who've all
seen Star Wars, Phantom Menace, etc. multiple times each, is conscious of the
THX reference. So, why does Lucas bother to be put it in there?
Captain Howdy
(Bill Warren) wrote: From: cgarc...@my-deja.com
the license plate are there because he ordered them there...only a BAD
director would get a shot of a meaningless license plate number...and on
Believe what you want, but there's absolutely no evidence that Hitchcock
ordered special license plates made. And no reason for him to do so.
I suggest you read a book called "The Art Of Alfred Hitchcock", it was
written by Hitchcock film scholar Dr. Donald Spoto...I met Dr. Spoto in
a Hitch Seminar many years ago...this man knew Hitch very well and
interviewed him on many occassions for his writings on him...In the
Book, on the section in Psycho, Dr. Spoto writes how NFB in the license
plate stands for Norman Francis(Saint of birds) Bates...do some research
and you'll understand why Hitch wasn't just another filmmaker...the man
was a genius. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
======================================You hit the nail right on the
head. Of course Hitch left nothing to chance. Everyone is entitled to an
opinion, and having said tat, far too often opinions are based on
instinct and/or emotion. It is rare these days to find someone who bases
an opinion based on fact just as you have. We need more of that in this
world. Thank you for your insightful thoughts.
Bill Warren
> I doubt whether any of his friends, who've all
>seen Star Wars, Phantom Menace, etc. multiple times each, is conscious of the
>THX reference. So, why does Lucas bother to be put it in there?
I don't know. Ask him. But it is not a secret code; it's a direct reference
to a real movie. Perhaps he was thinking that people OLDER than those you
mention would be amused by it. Certainly PHANTOM MENACE needed all the extra
amusement it could scare up.
Iksnamhcok
>amusement it could scare up.
>
I'll grant you that!
But another thought on the NFB and ANL plates: Gus Van Sant had them
custom-made for the remake, didn't he? His was a low-budget production too.
How hard and expensive could it have been?
My point isn't that Hitchcock necessarily DID special-order the NFB and ANL
license plates, but that it's POSSIBLE he did. It's not "utterly IMpossible,"
as you contended.
prufro...@my-deja.com
The NFB numberplate in PSYCHO was that of assistant director Hilton
Green's own car. (Information supplied by Hilton Green to his director,
Richard Franklin, of PSYCHO II, and told to me by Richard.)
There is (naturally) no evidence that the 'F' in 'NFB' stands for
'(Saint) Francis'. That is one of Dr Donald Spoto's wild flights of
fancy! (Spoto is capable of many such flights, and moreover has often
made dubious claims for which he has provided no evidence or footnotes.)
Prof. Leland Poague speculated that the 'F' might stand for 'Ford',
given that Hitchcock at the time tried to give prominence in his films
and advertising to Ford cars. (Ford was then a TV sponsor of
Hitchcock.)
I seem to recall that David Sterritt had another explanation again for
the 'F' letter!
But none of them was right!
On a related matter. Many critics/scholars have speculated on the
'meaning' of the brand-name 'UNICA' on the key that Alicia steals from
Alex in NOTORIOUS. Perhaps the 'best' suggestion is that of Robert
Samuels (Hitchcock's Bi-Textuality', 1998), who thinks that it
implies how Alex is made a 'eunuch' in the film. (Keys are Freudian
phallic symbols, after all. And some of the business with the keys in
NOTORIOUS seems to have come from the 1945 British film THE WICKED LADY,
which is full of such symbolism.) Actually, I think that the word is
just as likely to imply 'unique', emhasising that particular key's
importance. Or perhaps both meanings are true (by a process of
overdetermination). Or perhaps neither.
What is most important, of course,is that we FEEL the scene/s with the
key - or the scenes with the numberplate/s. Primarily, the scenes'
human content is what matters. Well, obviously!
Ken Mogg (Ed., 'The MacGuffin').
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~muffin
Bill Warren
>But another thought on the NFB and ANL plates: Gus Van Sant had them
>custom-made for the remake, didn't he? His was a low-budget production too.
No, it wasn't especially low-budget. But that's not the point in that case --
he was trying to copy the original.
>My point isn't that Hitchcock necessarily DID special-order the NFB and ANL
>license plates, but that it's POSSIBLE he did. It's not "utterly
>IMpossible,"
>as you contended.
In my opinion, it IS impossible, considering Hitchcock's entire career and the
kinds of things he did include as references.
It's not impossible in the sense that you can't flap your arms and fly to
the moon, of course.
prufro...@my-deja.com
Some of you may find interesting the brief discussion over the past few
days of Hitch's conscious use of Freudian imagery and ideas in such
films as SPELLBOUND, the unmade KALEIDOSCOPE, and MARNIE, that's now
concluded (for the time being) on the Hitchcock Scholars/'MacGuffin'
Home page. (The discussion arose from an inquiry sent to me by a film
student in England. He's writing a short thesis on Freudian codes in
films by Hitchcock, Lynch, Kubrick, et al.)
- Ken Mogg.
prufro...@my-deja.com
topics appears, not least topics raised right here on
<alt.movies.hitchcock>. So here are a couple of items ...
1. I once quoted here a remark that I'd seen attributed to Hitchcock,
that if he hadn't married Alma, he might have 'gone gay'. (Bill Warren,
whom I respect, thought that the attribution may have been a made-up
one.) Well, the remark is now confirmed by Hitchcock's biographer John
Russell Taylor. On the recently-aired documentary about Hitchcock on
the E! channel (a tape of which I've just received), Taylor reveals that
Hitch did indeed confide to him, 'If I hadn't met Alma, I think that I
could have become a poof.'
2. But Hitchcock was at ease with gayness in others (no surprise there
to anyone who knows his films!), as Taylor goes on to point out. And
one such gay - or bisexual - person was definitely Cary Grant. The
excellent Grant biography, 'Cary Grant: The Lonely Heart' (1989), by
Charles Higham and Roy Moseley, revealed this a decade ago. But then
some people couldn't accept this - including some people writing to this
site. Graham McCann's 'Cary Grant: A Class Apart' (1996) tried to
pooh-pooh Higham and Moseley's findings. But there's recently been an
interesting discussion of Grant and gayness on one of the academic film
sites. And when I raised the matter of the McCann biography, an article
was mentioned that does seem to nail the issue of Grant's bisexuality
once and for all. In 1997, Brendan Gill wrote an article on Grant in
'The New Yorker' (2 June 1997, pp. 84-88) that 'seems to speak of
Grant's appetite for men from first-hand experience' ...
Incidentally, our very own Bill Warren, afore-mentioned, was a research
assistant on the Higham and Moseley book - which should help to explain
why it is so good.
- Ken Mogg (Ed., 'The MacGuffin').
Iksnamhcok
I'd tend to say improbable, not impossible, but as long as you preface it "in
my opinion," well, all right, already.
What else can we argue about?
Drm...@webtv.net
The St. Francis comment got my attention for the same reason....nothing
else on my mind. But might it be a reference to Norman's "control" over
life and death.....as pertains to the birds and critters within his
grasp. Remember all the small animals that he had stuffed and mounted.
Of course the implication is that Norman killed them and kept them as
proof of his "talents".
The license plate caught the eye, just the way the eyes of those stuffed
animals......didn't it?
robert
shower scene?
Bill Warren
>anyone know who hitchcock brought in specifically to sequence the
>shower scene?
Not sure what you mean by that. Saul Bass and Hitchcock created the
storyboards, as I understand it, but Hitchcock directed it.
cgarc...@my-deja.com
that's been disputed by alot of people who worked on the movie...I
guess he was just trying to show off.
Michael Myers
From: prufro...@my-deja.com Grant, Hitchcock, gayness
If it's so good thanks to Warren, why in the world is he, as he puts it,
"dirt poor" because no publishers want to publish any of his projects?
" The Devil has found a new playground...the Internet."
- Millenium -
Michael Myers
Sherry L Kelley
--
Sher
Damien Taylor <Damien...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17202-38...@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Group: alt.movies.hitchcock Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999, 6:45pm (EDT+4)
From: bill...@aol.com.exx (Bill Warren) Re: NFB-317 from Psycho
From: aande...@aol.com (AAnder8443)
At the risk of having some of the venom flying around re this "issue"
thrown in
my direction -
WHO CARES?
What's the point of a message like that? Obviously the people involved
care. If you don't, find, but don't insult other people whose interests
don't precisely coincide with yours. And that goes for people on BOTH
sides of this license plate discussion.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Who cares, asks Billybond? Well, he does. Billybonds' claim to fame is
his repeated attempts to "criminalize" anyones' opinion
which doesn't conform to Billybonds' "point
of view."
Should you fall victim to Billybonds'
wrath, you can expect your ISP to be contacted
by Billybond complaining he has been insulted
because someone posts a message Billybond doesn't like.
This is evident in his repeated attempts to have Keith
Holders' Web TV account removed, but so far he has been unsuccessful.
Yes, Billybond doesn't care about "venom" being thrown
around, just as long as it isn't being thrown in his direction. What a
joke.
Ditto for his NYC partner, Filmgene, who also LOVES to
complain to ISP's for the above mentioned.
Alfred must be rolling in his coffin.