Is single fire ignition worth the price?
Bob
setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
King86hp
>From: Bob rgso...@megsinet.net
>Date: Wed, 08 September 1999 09:33 PM EDT
>Message-id: <37D70E5D...@megsinet.net>
>
>What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
>setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
>making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
>
>
Moved by the wind.
>
> >What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
> >setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
> >making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
> >
> >
> king writes...big waste of money plus you double you head acks
If it not broke, don't fix it! Spark is spark, if it gets there on
time, and lights the fire what more do you want. You can make spark
be traction control, rev limiter, ect. but what's the point? Buy a
new seat or paint or need I say chrome?
Be thankful you don't have FI and electronic ignition. You got a
motor you can safely play with, no go have fun.
--
Rich
Moved by the wind.
into my previous post it may be more readable.
"Moved by the wind." wrote:
> >
> > >What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
> > >setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
> > >making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
> > >
> > >
> > king writes...big waste of money plus you double you head acks
>
> If it's not broke, don't fix it! Spark is spark, if it gets there on
> time, and lights the fire what more do you want. You can make spark
> be traction control, rev limiter, ect. but what's the point? Buy a
> new seat or paint or need I say chrome?
> Be thankful you don't have FI and electronic ignition. You got a
> motor you can safely play with, now go have fun.
> --
> Rich
d&k
are somewhat dependent on how well the bike breathes (like everything else).
Smoother low and mid range and elimination of backfiring are most commonly
noted. The older bikes run with a lot of advance, for which a single fire
can make a large improvement. BTW, the TC88 is singlefire, which may signal
an overall trend as emission and noise standards tighten.
Tinker
Bob wrote in message <37D70E5D...@megsinet.net>...
Hugh Jass (__!__)
>What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
>setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
>making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
Save yer money. I put single fire on my `70 shovel and aside from a
different starting procedure I noticed absolutely no difference in the
bike. The ONLY difference I noticed was a clearly lighter checkbook.
Hugh Jass (__!__)
Man who scratches ass should not bite fingernails.
Change .com to .net in my e-mail address to reply direct
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Jogos6910
>From: "d&k" d&k...@newlander.freeserve.co.uk
>Date: Thu, 09 September 1999 05:14 PM EDT
>BTW, the TC88 is singlefire, which may signal
>an overall trend as emission and noise standards tighten.
>
been a while since i bought so... have a round on me as you ponder my simple
piggyback questions.
anybody ever hear of the factories reason for going to single fire ignition?
also, i don't understand how single fire could improve emission or noise
levels.
jogos
jogo...@aol.comUHUH ( remove UHUH )
1988 fxr 90" stroker
King86hp
>Date: Thu, 09 September 1999 08:21 PM EDT
>Message-id: <19990909202103...@ng-bh1.aol.com>
also i here the timing is fixed at 35 you cant advance it
Arby
motor not bolted on to it.
Arby
Bob <rgso...@megsinet.net> wrote in article
<37D70E5D...@megsinet.net>...
Topprolmc
"Hugh Jass (__!__)" wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:33:17 -0500, Bob <rgso...@megsinet.net> wrote:
>
> >What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
> >setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
> >making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
> Save yer money. I put single fire on my `70 shovel and aside from a
> different starting procedure I noticed absolutely no difference in the
> bike. The ONLY difference I noticed was a clearly lighter checkbook.
That's funny....Everyone I know with a single fire ignition has had both
"seat of the pants" and Dyno improvements. Espesially Shovels that are
also dual plug heads......
Topp
HSB#99 BS#35
Topprolmc
Jogos6910 wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
> >From: "d&k" d&k...@newlander.freeserve.co.uk
> >Date: Thu, 09 September 1999 05:14 PM EDT
>
> >BTW, the TC88 is singlefire, which may signal
> >an overall trend as emission and noise standards tighten.
> >
> been a while since i bought so... have a round on me as you ponder my simple
> piggyback questions.
>
> anybody ever hear of the factories reason for going to single fire ignition?
> also, i don't understand how single fire could improve emission or noise
> levels.
1.)Fire only cylinder that is on combustion stroke ( less noise due to not
fireing on exhaust stroke of other cylinder).
2.)Stronger spark to firing cylinder, hence better burn....Cleaner emissions
3.)Since there is better burn, more HP ....More torque..
Why do you think the Sporty 1200S has it??? 78Ft/Lbs of torque at the rear
wheel......
Topp
HSB#99 BS#35
King86hp
>Date: Fri, 10 September 1999 06:52 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37D8E2E3...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
you say all sounds good
King86hp
>From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
>Date: Fri, 10 September 1999 06:54 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37D8E34B...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
an a leg on it showed no improvment.....to fell a seat of the pants improvment
your talking about 7 to 10 hp
Topprolmc
King86hp wrote:
How many are running 90+ inch Shovels?
Crane HI-4 ignition and coil for me ran 304.00, and that wuz at Waugh HD. Not an
arm and leg. Bike runs smoother with it, especially at 80 mph. Better
acceleration, no hesitation......
If the bike is set up to run, then spend the extra on a single fire (or dual fire
for Crane). You can feel the difference.....
Topp
HSB#99 BS#35
Topprolmc
King86hp wrote:
> >ject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
> >From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
> >Date: Fri, 10 September 1999 06:52 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <37D8E2E3...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >Jogos6910 wrote:
> >
>
< Snip>
>
> >
> >1.)Fire only cylinder that is on combustion stroke ( less noise due to not
> >fireing on exhaust stroke of other cylinder).
> >2.)Stronger spark to firing cylinder, hence better burn....Cleaner emissions
> >3.)Since there is better burn, more HP ....More torque..
> >
> >Why do you think the Sporty 1200S has it??? 78Ft/Lbs of torque at the rear
> >wheel......
> >
> >
> >Topp
> >HSB#99 BS#35
> >
> >
> king writes..there is no hp and torque advantage with single fire....but what
> you say all sounds good
If you are getting better burn, then you are getting more power, so better burn=
more HP+Torque.
Anything else???
Topp
HSB#99 BS#35
King86hp
>From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
>Date: Fri, 10 September 1999 09:33 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37D90898...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
different spark plugs....ect ill bet there is hundreds of bikes out there
that tryed single fire with no gain
King86hp
>From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
>Message-id: <37D907B7...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
>
>
>
>King86hp wrote:
>
>> >bject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
>> >From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
ignition will make your bike run better eather single or doul fire.......and if
your shovel has a high dome then a doul plug helps dome robs you of a complete
burn thats why a flattop produces more power
Hugh Jass (__!__)
<Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Hugh Jass (__!__)" wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:33:17 -0500, Bob <rgso...@megsinet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >What benefits can I expect to see from a single fire ignition
>> >setup? I currently have a '76 Shovelhead and am thinking about
>> >making the upgrade but wanted to get some honest comments.
>> Save yer money. I put single fire on my `70 shovel and aside from a
>> different starting procedure I noticed absolutely no difference in the
>> bike. The ONLY difference I noticed was a clearly lighter checkbook.
>
>That's funny....Everyone I know with a single fire ignition has had both
>"seat of the pants" and Dyno improvements. Espesially Shovels that are
>also dual plug heads......
>
>
>Topp
>HSB#99 BS#35
>
>
I don't pretend to speak for everyone, just myself. He asked for
personal experience and I gave it to him. If someone else saw an
improvement more power to them. On my bike it was a waste of money.
I do, however, feel electronic dual fire replacement for older points
equiped bikes is a desirable upgrade
.boB
> >bject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
> >From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
> >Date: Fri, 10 September 1999 09:33 AM EDT
> >Message-id: <37D90898...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >King86hp wrote:
> >
> >> >ject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
> >> >From: Topprolmc Topp...@NEENERNEENERearthlink.net
Last fall (or so), I added the Crane ignition to the sporster. It made a
great improvement. Started easier, off the choke sooner, ran smoother at speed.
I even picked up 1-2 mpg. Fuel milage isn't a big concern of mine, but it does
indicate that the engine is more efficient.
So this spring I added the same system to the Wide Glide. Not much of a
difference. Ran a little smoother - maybe - but didn't increase milage. It did
start easier, though. I'd say worth every penny on the sportster, questionable on
the WG.
--
.boB
97 H-D 1200S
97 H-D FXDWG
95 Ram 1500 CC/LWB
83 GMC Jimmy (beater)
65 427SC Cobra (project)
Stephen Nelson
driving a single fire ignition, can lead to fouled spark plugs. The dual
fire helps to keep spark plugs clean in stop and go and city driving. Back
in the good old days of kickstarted bikes...I saw a lot of guys cussing at
their single fire systems...late at night...in front of the bar, with
fouled plugs.
Stephen
d&k
this, and if anyone knows ANY other modern internal combustion engine that
uses a dual fire or equivalent, I'd like to hear about it. Ask a tuner in
any other forum than H-D racing if he'd like to fire all his cylinders at
the same time, and see what reaction you get. Bottom line - it does not
cause fouling (check jetting, heat range of plug, etc) it may or may not
improve peak horsepower depending on numerous factors in the engine, not the
least of which is rear cylinder timing, it does prevent the infamous H-D
backfiring when the cause is premature ignition in the rear cylinder, and
typically shows an increase in responsiveness to the throttle. Other claims
are made, but from an engineering standpoint, the old dual fire is just
that - old.
Tinker
King86hp
>Date: Sat, 18 September 1999 04:53 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7s0u4o$gql$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Stephen Nelson
I just got one question...you ever ran a single fire ignition...on a Harley in
day to day real life riding ( hwy, city driving and stop and go traffic)
My experiance is they don't work as well as dual fire...for street riden bikes
and they cost a good deal of money...for nothing gained.
Stephen
Stephen Nelson
remember Harley running single fire in 1960 - 1964 panheads AKA dual points and
dual coils. Funny they have been dual fire since 1965...wonder why.
Stephen
King86hp wrote:
> >ubject: Re: Is single fire ignition worth the price?
> >From: Stephen Nelson sjne...@pacbell.net
> >Date: Sat, 18 September 1999 08:50 PM EDT
> >Message-id: <37E43339...@pacbell.net>
> king writes...stephen im with you..theres also no improvement on dyno runs
> eather
Stefan & Andrea Dobrostanski
is a slightly cooler running engine . It will give you the added benefit of
having a separate ignition point and someday get you home where the other
will leave you stopped dead where you are . The down side to that is added
parts = more things to go wrong too .
King86hp
Joe Mama
> Also the old dual fire system <S> My memory just jumped a cog, seems
> I remember Harley running single fire in 1960 - 1964 panheads AKA
> dual points and dual coils. Funny they have been dual fire since
> 1965...wonder why.
I remember the dual point/dual coil single fire distributors as stock
equipment on the 1963-64 panheads, but according to the manual they came
on 1961-64. I remember some guys making a big deal about them whenever
one would be available, but they sure died out of popularity all of a
sudden without a shout. I never did know what the reason was..
--
-jm
To reply no-spam, change "roundtrip.net" to "rarebird.net,"
because for the spam it will be a literal round trip..
Stephen Nelson
When I had my shop I had a crate with about 15 dual points distributors,
never sold one in 10 years.
Stephen
d&k
Tinker
Stephen Nelson wrote in message <37E43339...@pacbell.net>...
.boB
> Hey Tinker,
>
> I just got one question...you ever ran a single fire ignition...on a Harley in
> day to day real life riding ( hwy, city driving and stop and go traffic)
>
> My experiance is they don't work as well as dual fire...for street riden bikes
> and they cost a good deal of money...for nothing gained.
>
I have a Crane Hi-4 system on both of my bikes. On the Sportster, it made a
big difference - started easier, better gas mileage, ran smoother, better throttle
response and ride feel. A subtle improvement, but an improvement.
On the Wide Glide, not nearly as great an improvement. It starts a little
better, and defiantly runs better in cold wet weather. But gas mileage and throttle
response seem to be the same.
King86hp
>Date: Mon, 20 September 1999 12:20 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37E5B5F2...@codenet.net>
why it feel good......going to any good ignition will make a big difference
single or duel
Chris Troudt
>
> I have a Crane Hi-4 system on both of my bikes. On the Sportster, it made a
> big difference - started easier, better gas mileage, ran smoother, better throttle
> response and ride feel. A subtle improvement, but an improvement.
> On the Wide Glide, not nearly as great an improvement. It starts a little
> better, and defiantly runs better in cold wet weather. But gas mileage and throttle
> response seem to be the same.
Single-fire ignition systems ain't going to make any
difference at all in starting. They still operate in
dual-fire mode while cranking, and also for the first
few revolutions after the engine fires up. The reason
is the computer initially has no idea which pulse is
associated with which cylinder until it's had a little
while to sort out the timing offsets between the two
pulses generated by the single rotor. So, it fires
both plugs during start up. If you really perceive
improved starting with your new ignition system, it
is due to improved spark energy from a better coil, or
improved timing accuracy from a better module, but it
is not from single fire operation.
--
Later,
CT AH#40