Full face helmets cause motorcycle deaths due to lack of oxygen
Bryan
...here is the direct quote from the Georgia ABATE newsletter written by the
State Director, Jim George, published on page seven of the December 2005
issue.
"Greetings from God's Country!
ABATE of Georgia, Inc. is working "Full Steam Ahead" to educate the "cagers"
(car, truck, SUV, etc.) drivers to "SEE" bikes and quit killing us. But, if
they do kill one of us we will press just as hard to get the killers locked
up and their licenses revoked.
Today we want to look at a problem that we all have greater control over.
Almost 1 out of every 10 motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle accidents.
In other words, the biker runs into a stationary object such as a tree,
bridge, parked vehicle, etc. As much as we hate to say it, our fallen
brother was probably the cause of his own demise. The vast majority of the
single vehicle accidents involve alcohol. We have got to stop letting our
biker friends ride while intoxicated. This is a touchy issue and one I will
address more later.
[Here is the good part...]
A related cause of single vehicle accidents resulting in fatalities is
wearing full face helmets and gear. Let me explain. When the weather turns
cold many of us will don clothing and equipment that keeps us warmer while
riding. These include scarves and full face helmets. When the rider wears
these items the inflow of fresh oxygen is decreased and is replaced by the
rider's exhaled air (carbon dioxide). Breathing in carbon dioxide makes the
rider light headed and may eventually cause a black out which usually
results in an accident. These accidents are most often fatal.
In the past most of the accidents caused by lack of oxygen were written up
as "rider error". It wasn't until Pete Conrad, the third man to walk on the
moon, died of a motorcycle crash in 1999 that further studies were done to
produce evidence otherwise. After an autopsy was done of this famous
astronaut, the coroner announced that the crash was a direct result of
"oxygen deprivation". This causes me to think back to the times I would ride
in sub-freezing temperatures with my scarf wrapped around me like a mummy. I
remember after a couple of hours of cold weather riding I would become
"sloppy" in my riding. Now I know why.
In summation, do not let or encourage your biker friends to drink and drive
and if you wear a full face helmet make sure there is a flow of fresh air
coming in."
This lunacy begs us to ask, why on earth are ABATE people (American Bikers
Aimed Towards EDUCATION) so, uhm uneducated? Pete Conrad died riding to
Laguna Seca raceway in Ojai, California IN JULY of 1999. (Completely
unrelated but interesting just the same; Ojai is an American Indian name for
the moon). While we could find no confirming information that the 69 year
old astronaut died of "oxygen deprivation" we also could not find any
information as to what type of helmet he was wearing; full-face or open
face. However, I seriously doubt the motorcycle enthusiast/astronaut was
wearing a scarf and bundled to the point of cutting of oxygen to his brain.
In fact, every source we found on the subject claimed that he died from
injuries sustained when he ran off the road.
And since we are on the subject of astronauts, and since this is a subject
of personal interest of me, where I have read dozens of books on the
subject. NASA spent millions of dollars trying to make the space suits the
astronauts wear air-tight. If a simple helmet, with a plastic faceshield
resting against a cheap rubber seal and vents in the chin-bar were enough to
create an air seal good enough to cause asphyxiation, the space program
would have been much more cost effective.
Additionally, while I have no scientific evidence of this, I can guarantee
that all of my full face helmets are not air-tight. Furthermore, we hopped
on over the NHTSA website to see if they had any data on the subject.
Perhaps its a huge governmental conspiracy to kill off motorcyclists to
choose to wear full-face helmets, but we found nothing pertaining to oxygen
deprivation as it relates to full-face helmets.
But after talking to a subject matter expert we were told that "when you're
cold, your body focuses nerve responses and bloodflow and hence heat to
critical functions...internal organs and the such, so you have less
sensitivity and control over your fine motor skills. Cold is also
uncomfortable, which gives you a bit of a mental distraction" So maybe these
bundled bikers are not dying from breathing their own breath, but from
simply being cold.
Now, one may think well, if they don't want to wear a helmet, it's not skin
off my nose, but here are a few highlights from the NHTSA site.
"Figures on the cost of a head injury vary, but one thing is clear:
motorcycle riders injured while not wearing a helmet cost significantly more
to treat than those wearing a helmet."
Feel free to check out our sources and get all the specifics on the
treatments costs by visiting the NHTSA website. They also have a page
dedicated to refuting myths of motorcycle helmets that we found quite
interesting.
Stupendous Man
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
Timberwoof
"Bryan" <nestleN...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "oxygen deprivation"
hah. Bullshit. I don't believe it for a moment.
Between the eyebrow vents and me keeping the helmet open just a little bit to
keep my glasses from fogging up, that thing leaks like a sieve.
Pete Conrad would have had training to recognize the signs of hypoxia: every
high-altitude skydiver and air force pilot has to get this training. If he was
suffocating, he'd have noticed and cracked his visor.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Dean
Bryan wrote:
> Found this on a local web site (Canyonchasers.net):
>
> And since we are on the subject of astronauts, and since this is a subject
> of personal interest of me, where I have read dozens of books on the
> subject. NASA spent millions of dollars trying to make the space suits the
> astronauts wear air-tight. If a simple helmet, with a plastic faceshield
> resting against a cheap rubber seal and vents in the chin-bar were enough to
> create an air seal good enough to cause asphyxiation, the space program
> would have been much more cost effective.
While I agree with the point you (or is this from the canyonchasers
cite?) are trying to make, I have to quibble a little on the details.
Airtight at small pressure differentials (i.e. your inhaled or exhaled
breath vs. atmospheric) is far different from airtight at a large
pressure differential (suit pressure to vacuum). And inhaling would
tend to improve the faceshield seal, as the vacuum created would tend
to suck the shield against the rubber.
Of course, the argument is full of shit for another reason. If it is
cold enough that you are bundling a scarf so tightly around the bottom
of your helmet that it blocks the free flow of air to your lungs, your
faceshield will fog all to hell and you won't see a damn thing. I
doubt even these antifog shields would be effective against that kind
of fogging. Then again, maybe that's what's causing the accidents.
<snip>
>
> But after talking to a subject matter expert we were told that "when you're
> cold, your body focuses nerve responses and bloodflow and hence heat to
> critical functions...internal organs and the such, so you have less
> sensitivity and control over your fine motor skills. Cold is also
> uncomfortable, which gives you a bit of a mental distraction" So maybe these
> bundled bikers are not dying from breathing their own breath, but from
> simply being cold.
>
I suspect that developing frostbite on your nose would be just as big a
risk factor.
If ABATE doesn't want to wear helmets, that's fine. Fight for the
right to do what you want. I'm libertarian so I'm all for it. But for
god's sake don't make up complete bullshit arguments to make it look
like wearing a helmet is more dangerous that not wearing one. They
continue to make the same bullshit arguments about helmets causing neck
injuries, or about reduced hearing, or reduced peripheral vision. Now
they trot out a new bs argument to give the old ones a rest.
ROBERT MILLER
"Bryan" <nestleN...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:yeudndl79ci...@comcast.com...
Freedom of choice, and leave it alone. Green stuff and loud mouths should
not interact!
womba...@myactv.net
Christ, ABATEers. Some days I'm glad they don't wear helmets.
Meanie
Abate.
There is only "one" reason not to wear a helmet and that is freedom of
choice. I'm tired of reading about Abates' claims of helmets causing
more injury. It makes them appear much more stupid than they already
are.
Paladin
Title corrected to match the oirginal ABATE release.
...
> After an autopsy was done of this famous
>astronaut, the coroner announced that the crash was a direct result of
>"oxygen deprivation".
The only links I could find on the web said the autopsy was scheduled,
nothing about autopsy results. One of the things an autopsy would be
able to determine is blood oxygen levels. It does not take much of a
drop in blood oxygen levels to affect mental judgement and such could
be a contributing factor to the cause of the accident.
A full face helmet would cause you to rebreath some of your
exhalation, resulting in some decrease in available oxygen.
Without a link to the actual autopsy the truth of the above is
unknown, but it is a logical possibility.
>This lunacy begs us to ask, why on earth are ABATE people (American Bikers
>Aimed Towards EDUCATION) so, uhm uneducated? Pete Conrad died riding to
>Laguna Seca raceway in Ojai, California IN JULY of 1999.
Time of day? I could not find that. Early morning in our coastal
mountains get rather cold -- especially for us natives who bundle up
like eskimos when the temperature drops below 50.
>... I seriously doubt the motorcycle enthusiast/astronaut was
>wearing a scarf and bundled to the point of cutting of oxygen to his brain.
No one said he was. But he quite likely did have his FF helmet on
with the face shield closed. You do not need to totally cut off
oxygen to suffer a slight lack. A slight lack is all that would be
needed to affect judgement.
>In fact, every source we found on the subject claimed that he died from
>injuries sustained when he ran off the road.
Of course, and a red herring. ABATE did not say he died from lack of
oxygen. They said that the autopsy indicated that the lack of oxygen
led to the accident. Are you not interested in preventing accidents?
>And since we are on the subject of astronauts, and since this is a subject
>of personal interest of me, where I have read dozens of books on the
>subject. NASA spent millions of dollars trying to make the space suits the
>astronauts wear air-tight. If a simple helmet, with a plastic faceshield
>resting against a cheap rubber seal and vents in the chin-bar were enough to
>create an air seal good enough to cause asphyxiation, the space program
>would have been much more cost effective.
An intersting aside trying to mock the ABATE article. What is not
mentioned is that the NASA helmets had a oxygen supply -- something
most full face helmets lack. When people resort to such mockery I
tend to suspect their objectivity and motives.
>Additionally, while I have no scientific evidence of this, I can guarantee
>that all of my full face helmets are not air-tight.
More mockery. No one is claiming that the lack of oxygen was the
cause of death. No one is claiming that the helmet was air tight.
The claim is that the re-breathing of your own exhalation will result
in a slight decrease in available oxygen. Resulting in a reduction of
blood oxygen levels. Resulting in altered judgement. Resulting in a
accident that would have been preventable. The ABATE people wrote "if
you wear a full face helmet make sure there is a flow of fresh air
coming in."
>Now, one may think well, if they don't want to wear a helmet
There was NOTHING in the article suggesting anyone should not wear a
helmet. It was a warning to those who do wear a FF helmet to be sure
that they get enough fresh air.
Which do you prefer: Survive the accident, or not have the accident?
Jack Hunt
>This lunacy begs us to ask, why on earth are ABATE people (American Bikers
>Aimed Towards EDUCATION) so, uhm uneducated? Pete Conrad died riding to
>Laguna Seca raceway in Ojai, California IN JULY of 1999. (Completely
>unrelated but interesting just the same; Ojai is an American Indian name for
>the moon).
Laguna Seca is near Monterey, not Ojai. Laguna Seca is 280 miles from Ojai. Mr.
Conrad may have been on his way to Laguna Seca, or on his way to Ojai, but not
both.
--
Jack Hunt IBA#12795
'99 ST1100
'95 Suzuki DR250SE
http://www.huntslodge.com
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Bryan
"Paladin" <ls650{modelname}@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:43d7740b....@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
>
> Title corrected to match the oirginal ABATE release.
>
You must be an ABATE member.
Do you really believe full face helmets CAUSE motorcycle accidents?
In our lawsuit happy society, don't you think someone would have sued a
helmet manufacturer by now if that were the case? Just think we could all
have court mandated oxygen sensors in our helmets.
Sheeesh,
Bryan
view_as_html
systems so was looking into the sapphire, ansul, and other systems from
simplex a division of tyco. One system works by lowering the oxygen in
the air to a point where a fire can not be sustained but human breathing
can. It works. The air is about 21% oxygen fires need about 16% oxygen
people can do with about 12%. So if you're driving down the road even at
a meager 5mph and you have somehow managed to wrap yourself up so tight
you can't sustain an average of 12% when the air contains about 21% you've
got a few other problems you may want to deal with.
PirateJohn
DON'T OPEN THE VISOR A BIT* you can make yourself drowsy. Which I
guess could be a factor on a really cold day, but the bottom line is as
several people have pointed out: a person should realize that if they
are drowsy they should stop and/or introduce some fresh air into the
helmet.
If you will pardon the expression, we aren't exactly talking rocket
science here.
--PirateJohn--
www.PirateJohn.com
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>My first generation Schuberth Concept is air tight enough that *IF YOU
>DON'T OPEN THE VISOR A BIT* you can make yourself drowsy
Maybe from the stank of your own breath. Or from the helmet being poor
fitting and too tight. A bad fit can feel like hell itself.
If anything my complaints have been that FF don't seal damn well
enough. Otherwise on a cold day when you're all bundled up your visor
fogs immediately if you have everything closed.
Turby
>On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:27:34 -0700, "Bryan" <nestleN...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>This lunacy begs us to ask, why on earth are ABATE people (American Bikers
>>Aimed Towards EDUCATION) so, uhm uneducated? Pete Conrad died riding to
>>Laguna Seca raceway in Ojai, California IN JULY of 1999. (Completely
>>unrelated but interesting just the same; Ojai is an American Indian name for
>>the moon).
>
>Laguna Seca is near Monterey, not Ojai. Laguna Seca is 280 miles from Ojai. Mr.
>Conrad may have been on his way to Laguna Seca, or on his way to Ojai, but not
>both.
He was passing through Ojai on his way to LS. It's not a
contradiction.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer
PirateJohn
<< If anything my complaints have been that FF don't seal damn well
enough >>
Well dumbass, if you bought a decent helmet you might know the
difference. How long have you been riding -- more than 6 months?
Rob Kleinschmidt
Jack Hunt wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:27:34 -0700, "Bryan" <nestleN...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >This lunacy begs us to ask, why on earth are ABATE people (American Bikers
> >Aimed Towards EDUCATION) so, uhm uneducated? Pete Conrad died riding to
> >Laguna Seca raceway in Ojai, California IN JULY of 1999. (Completely
> >unrelated but interesting just the same; Ojai is an American Indian name for
> >the moon).
>
> Laguna Seca is near Monterey, not Ojai. Laguna Seca is 280 miles from Ojai. Mr.
> Conrad may have been on his way to Laguna Seca, or on his way to Ojai, but not
> both.
Perhaps he was disoriented due to the oxygen deprivation ?
P.Roehling
"PirateJohn" <Pirat...@aol.com> wrote
> Well dumbass, if you bought a decent helmet you might know the
> difference. How long have you been riding -- more than 6 months?
Uh, just stuck your foot in it there, "Pirate" ol' pal...
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>Well dumbass, if you bought a decent helmet you might know the
>difference.
Lay off the pirate novels man. They're for women.
> How long have you been riding -- more than 6 months?
6 months and a day!
Jack Hunt
wrote:
>Perhaps he was disoriented due to the oxygen deprivation ?
I believe the disorientation is on the part of whoever dreamed up this latest
anti-helmet fantasy.
If it were true, you'd see racers going to sleep and running off the tracks in
all forms of motorsport, wouldn't you?
--
Jack
Paladin
<nestleN...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Paladin" <ls650{modelname}@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:43d7740b....@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
>>
>> Title corrected to match the oirginal ABATE release.
>>
>
>You must be an ABATE member.
Nope.
>Do you really believe full face helmets CAUSE motorcycle accidents?
According to the article, it could be a factor.
>In our lawsuit happy society, don't you think someone would have sued a
>helmet manufacturer by now if that were the case?
Have you ever read the disclaimer for a motorcycle helmet?
> Just think we could all
>have court mandated oxygen sensors in our helmets.
It seemed to me that the original ABATE article was concerned with
accident prevention, bringing up a factor that you might not have been
aware of. I would rather avoid the accident if the first place rather
than depend on my gear to protect me.
Greek Shipping Magnets
>If it were true, you'd see racers going to sleep and running off the tracks in
>all forms of motorsport, wouldn't you?
Everybody knows racers get the special helmets from the manufacturers.
With helium filled foam liners so they weigh less and don't break your
neck. And special wide view HUD to allow them the peripheral vision
the visor port robs. Likewise I'm sure some sort of LiIon powered
forced air ventilation getup is installed to keep them from passing
out due to asphyxiation.
After all if multimillion dollar boyracers got killed using these
inherently dangerous fullface helmets right there on TV, what would
that do to sales? Kinda makes the whole concept of sponsorship moot.
Of course when it comes time to sell the commercial version, none of
these safety precautions are met. The manufacturer knows they can get
away with blaming it on the inherently dangerous streetbike.
But we know the truth... fullface helmet asphyxiation is one of the
leading causes of death! They come up with all kinds of bullshit
explanations like "target fixation" repeated by everyone from
Motorcycle "Safety" Foundations to Keith Code Scientologists. When we
all know damn well the only reason why anyone who just suddenly
decides to ride their high powered shiny sportbike right off the edge
of a turn...
RIDER ASPHYXIATION!
sqidbait
Bryan wrote:
> Found this on a local web site (Canyonchasers.net):
> [Here is the good part...]
> A related cause of single vehicle accidents resulting in fatalities is
> wearing full face helmets and gear. Let me explain. When the weather turns
> cold many of us will don clothing and equipment that keeps us warmer while
> riding. These include scarves and full face helmets. When the rider wears
> these items the inflow of fresh oxygen is decreased and is replaced by the
> rider's exhaled air (carbon dioxide). Breathing in carbon dioxide makes the
> rider light headed and may eventually cause a black out which usually
> results in an accident. These accidents are most often fatal.
A scarf while riding a motorbike? Sounds like an Isadora Duncan
moment just waiting to happen.
Urk!
-- Michael
Rob Kleinschmidt
Jack Hunt wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2006 11:43:50 -0800, "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsc...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Perhaps he was disoriented due to the oxygen deprivation ?
>
> I believe the disorientation is on the part of whoever dreamed up this latest
> anti-helmet fantasy.
>
> If it were true, you'd see racers going to sleep and running off the tracks in
> all forms of motorsport, wouldn't you?
Oh sure. And I suppose you let the kiddies put plastic bags over
their heads too. And I suppose these helmets don't use glue ?
A semi-sealed space filled with glue fumes. And this is called
safety gear ?
Bill Walker
"Greek Shipping Magnets" <an.ass.is@x.x> wrote in message
news:omuft112d3mtflfvd...@4ax.com...
Well gawdammit, Greek.. You sure do get rough with the boys, when you get
all stirred up... LOL.. I bet'cha when the ABATE guy wrote the article, he
didn't figure it would cause all this much stink.. hmmm... I don't think he
endorsed anything one way or the other, but I may have missed something..
All the helmet opinions are about the same anyway, far as I'm concerned.. If
you can research the comments .. the ones we are reading today, are almost
verbatim, ten years ago.. Interesting, ain't it ? Regards...
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
NZMSC
>> How long have you been riding -- more than 6 months?
> Greek Shipping Magnets <an.ass.is@x.x> wrote in
> 6 months and a day!
Dem, he took the hook *chomp* ... and you didn't even reel
him in!
You're just playing with him. You cold, callous person you!
<G>
Come to think of it, you have just the temperament the
Japanese are looking for. They need a hand doing some
"scientific" whaling down in the Pacific...
--
Allan Kirk,
Megarider Organisation,
(Saving motorcyclists' lives since 1971 )
www.megarider.com
NZMSC
> RIDER ASPHYXIATION!
Perhaps, as a motorcycle safety expert, I should point out here
is that the usual cause of rider asphyxiation is the rider
holding his breath as he watches in the rear view mirror to see
if that cop is going to do a U turn and come after him...
Stupendous Man
"> Perhaps, as a motorcycle safety expert, I should point out here
> is that the usual cause of rider asphyxiation is the rider
> holding his breath as he watches in the rear view mirror to see
> if that cop is going to do a U turn and come after him...
Isn't it also used to make riding twistiesmore fun, like autoerotic
asphyxiation apparently is for masturbators??
Hank
> If anything my complaints have been that FF don't seal damn well
> enough. Otherwise on a cold day when you're all bundled up your visor
> fogs immediately if you have everything closed.
Which is another reason why Real Men don't ride when
it's cold...
--
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
"The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional
in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony,
consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked
by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world
growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of
omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies
throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens,
losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation
of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question
authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance."
Bryan
> It seemed to me that the original ABATE article was concerned with
> accident prevention, bringing up a factor that you might not have been
> aware of. I would rather avoid the accident if the first place rather
> than depend on my gear to protect me.
So you BELIEVE helmets CAUSE accidents? (or are a contributing factor?)
Sheeeesh, do you really truely believe full face helmets CONTRIBUTE to
accidents?
Please tell me you are smarter than that.
Bryan
PirateJohn
<< How long have you been riding -- more than 6 months?
6 months and a day! >>
That's most likely about right. You come across as a real dumb ass.
Try being a little more honest and serious next time.
Jack Hunt
wrote:
>
>Jack Hunt wrote:
>> If it were true, you'd see racers going to sleep and running off the tracks in
>> all forms of motorsport, wouldn't you?
>
>Oh sure. And I suppose you let the kiddies put plastic bags over
>their heads too.
No, but in your case I'd recommend it.
> And I suppose these helmets don't use glue ?
And cars don't?
>A semi-sealed space filled with glue fumes. And this is called
>safety gear ?
No, it's called a car. Why don't people suffocate while driving down the road,
sealed in a glue-filled box? Maybe they should burn some paper tubes stuffed
with dried leaves. Yeah, that'll make 'em safer.
Brian
Honest? Serious? Bwahahahaha.....what a crack up........
Charles Soto
The plastic bag comes off just after "release." Or so I hear.
Charles
--
Charles Soto - Austin, TX *** 1999 GSF1200S, DoD No. "uno"
("Meepmeep" is "rr," as in Roadrunner, my ISP.)
David
> wearing full face helmets and gear. Let me explain. When the weather turns
> cold many of us will don clothing and equipment that keeps us warmer while
> riding. These include scarves and full face helmets. When the rider wears
> these items the inflow of fresh oxygen is decreased and is replaced by the
> rider's exhaled air (carbon dioxide). Breathing in carbon dioxide makes
> the rider light headed and may eventually cause a black out which usually
> results in an accident. These accidents are most often fatal.
Not the helmet but the scarf, how stupid can you get?
Rob Kleinschmidt
Jack Hunt wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2006 15:00:28 -0800, "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsc...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Jack Hunt wrote:
>
> >> If it were true, you'd see racers going to sleep and running off the tracks in
> >> all forms of motorsport, wouldn't you?
> >
> >Oh sure. And I suppose you let the kiddies put plastic bags over
> >their heads too.
>
> No, but in your case I'd recommend it.
>
> > And I suppose these helmets don't use glue ?
>
> And cars don't?
>
> >A semi-sealed space filled with glue fumes. And this is called
> >safety gear ?
>
> No, it's called a car. Why don't people suffocate while driving down the road,
> sealed in a glue-filled box? Maybe they should burn some paper tubes stuffed
> with dried leaves. Yeah, that'll make 'em safer.
The right type of leaves, might make 'em drive slower anyway.
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>Perhaps, as a motorcycle safety expert, I should point out here
>is that the usual cause of rider asphyxiation is the rider
>holding his breath as he watches in the rear view mirror to see
>if that cop is going to do a U turn and come after him...
Pussies!
Real riders nail it the moment they see the cop coming the opposite
way. And then run straight home to unload their quivering bowels!
Bill Walker
"Greek Shipping Magnets" <an.ass.is@x.x> wrote in message
news:5o1it1lmdd6utkuml...@4ax.com...
LOL.. and that's the truth.. I gotta admit that I've pulled a couple of
stunts on the highway, with the cops.. Got smooth away, too..
I guess I'm mellowed out, nowadays though.. Seems like it is much easier to
just pull over.. work out the best and easiest deal you can make with him
and then go to court.. plead not guilty and find some kind of way to beat
his ass on the witness stand.. heeheehee.. That's a lot more satisfying,
too.. Even considering that you win some and lose some.. I'm still around to
talk about it.. Just my 2 cents.. Regards, Greek
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
Brian
I have to agree, except for the quivering bowel part. Excess adrenalin
just makes my forearms sweat.......
NZMSC
> Pussies!
>
> Real riders nail it the moment they see the cop coming the
> opposite way. And then run straight home to unload their
> quivering bowels!
Hmmmm. Should I, at this point, ask if you are a real rider...?
And, if you say you are, I must make a note never to ask for a
loan of your leathers.
Jamin Kortegard
> Honest? Serious? Bwahahahaha.....what a crack up........
Come on now Brian, be serious. Remember... this is USENET. ;)
--
Jamin Kortegard
a popular motorcycle / a popular car
"Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match
for a good literbike at your side, kid."
- Michael
Ript
> exhalation, resulting in some decrease in available oxygen.
>
I supose if you duct tape it to your neck, but at highway speeds minus the
duct tape, I really dont see how. I wear a full face helmet, with 2 vents,
top and bottom, and a flip up visor, so I get plenty of O2...
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>Hmmmm. Should I, at this point, ask if you are a real rider...?
Of course not. But only because that'd mean I'd have to start a real
riders forum and then rant hysterical all day about how much I hate
reeky.
Too much trouble if you ask me. So much easier to just drive.
>And, if you say you are, I must make a note never to ask for a
>loan of your leathers.
Leathers are also for pussies. But you're welcome to my tanktops
anytime.
NZMSC
> tanktops anytime.
These are, I gather, Abrams tank tops with the 120mm M256
smoothbore gun?
I'll decline your offer with thanks. While Abrams tank tops do
offer excellent protection/revenge against bad drivers, they
unfortunately reduce the performance somewhat.
Timberwoof
NZMSC <nzm...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Greek Shipping Magnets wrote
> > Leathers are also for pussies. But you're welcome to my
> > tanktops anytime.
>
>
> These are, I gather, Abrams tank tops with the 120mm M256
> smoothbore gun?
>
> I'll decline your offer with thanks. While Abrams tank tops do
> offer excellent protection/revenge against bad drivers, they
> unfortunately reduce the performance somewhat.
Yeah, but think of the burnouts you can do with one installed!
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
(PeteCresswell)
> While Abrams tank tops do
>offer excellent protection/revenge against bad drivers, they
>unfortunately reduce the performance somewhat.
Something like this might be adaptable to bike vs car use:
http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml
--
PeteCresswell
David Steuber
> A semi-sealed space filled with glue fumes. And this is called
> safety gear ?
Good grief!
Let's try to introduce some sanity to this debate. Where are the
scientific tests that show reduced cognative or motor skills from
wearing a motorcycle helmet for an extended period of time (say
fifteen minutes)?
In case you think I am being silly, please be aware that such tests
have been conducted in hypobaric chambers to see how pilots would
react to high altitude without suplimental oxygen or pressurization.
Helmets are far from air tight. The visor only has to be cracked open
a little bit to give you all the fresh air you need. And of course
most modern helmets have vents that will accomplish the same thing.
If anyone wants to prove that helmets may contribute to accidents,
please post real test results with citation.
--
http://www.david-steuber.com/
1998 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport
2006 Honda 599 Hornet (CB600F)
It's OK. You only broke your leg in three places. Walk it off.
David Steuber
> Greek Shipping Magnets wrote
>
> > RIDER ASPHYXIATION!
>
>
> Perhaps, as a motorcycle safety expert, I should point out here
> is that the usual cause of rider asphyxiation is the rider
> holding his breath as he watches in the rear view mirror to see
> if that cop is going to do a U turn and come after him...
LOL!
I know that feeling!
Greek Shipping Magnets
wrote:
>These are, I gather, Abrams tank tops with the 120mm M256
>smoothbore gun?
>
>I'll decline your offer with thanks. While Abrams tank tops do
>offer excellent protection/revenge against bad drivers, they
>unfortunately reduce the performance somewhat.
No, I use Bad Boy tanktops which offer excellent protection for my
nipples from sunburn. And show off them pythons so the cute gayboys
swoon when I approach on my iron horse.
"You. In the pink cowboy boots. Come over here!"
big...@ameritech.net
Long time no see to some of you.
I borrowed an air analyzer from work the other day. We use them to
test the air in sewers and other confined spaces before sending in work
crews. Our analyzers test for carbon monoxide, hydrogen sulfide,
explosive gasses, and they also test the percentage of oxygen in the
air. I put on my helmet, stuck the probe in the corner of the face
shield, and turned on the meter.
For those that don't know, the air we breathe is usually just under
21% oxygen and about 78% nitrogen, with the rest taken up by various
trace elements.
My first run with the meter was with the face shield open, just to
estabish a base line. No change. Available oxygen was at about 20.5%
So then I tried closing the face shield.
And I ran into a problem. I couldn't read the meter because the face
shield fogged up right away. I got my son to come over and read the
meter. I was able to get the "low oxygen" alarm to go off by breathing
heavily but I still couldn't see. The best I could do was to get the
meter to drop down to 18% by breathing heavily and rapidly. I imagine
this might cause me to crash my bike becuase I'd pass out from
hyperventilating. Although since I wouldn't be able to see where I was
going I'd probably smack into a tree or something long before I passed
out.
I looked around on the internet a little and found some of the same
info that's already been posted here - namely that Charles "Pete"
Conrad died in a motorcycle accident in Southern California in July.
Kinda makes it unlikely he was bundled up but I suppose anything is
possible.
Curiosity had the best of me. I went ahead and made some phone calls.
Did you know that you can get an autopsy report from the Ventura County
Medical Examiner for 5 bucks? I ordered one up.
No mention of oxygen deprivation. Nothing of the sort at all in the
coroner's report.
I've attempted to contact the author of the article. I've sent email
and left phone messages asking him to share his information with me. I
did manage to get in touch with the ABATE of Georgia information
director, who promised to pass an email along to Mr. George but
couldn't guarantee I'd hear back from him.
-Big Bob
Timberwoof
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9907/09/conrad.obit.01/
"He was taken to the hospital with what were initially believed to be minor
injuries, but died about six hours later from what the coroner says were
internal injuries."
Lack of oxygen, my ass!
Saddlebag
> "He was taken to the hospital with what were initially believed to be minor injuries,
but died about six hours later from what the coroner says were
internal injuries."
> Lack of oxygen, my ass!
What's inconsistent? Internal organs need oxygen or they suffer
injury...duhhh.
Turby
I assume you're being facetious.
Re: Bigbob's research. The only other caveat is if a rider is wearing
a scarf that would cut off air supply around the neck. And if you've
ever been in Ojai on a July afternoon, you'd know that wasn't in the
realm of possibilities in Conrad's case.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer
Paladin
Would depend on the time of day. It gets rather chilly at night in
the coastal mountains (chillly for a Californian is under 50 degrees.)
>Curiosity had the best of me. I went ahead and made some phone calls.
>Did you know that you can get an autopsy report from the Ventura County
>Medical Examiner for 5 bucks?
I didn't know that.
> I ordered one up.
>
>No mention of oxygen deprivation. Nothing of the sort at all in the
>coroner's report.
In other words, the scenario, while possible, cannot be verified from
primary sources.
>I've attempted to contact the author of the article. I've sent email
>and left phone messages asking him to share his information with me. I
>did manage to get in touch with the ABATE of Georgia information
>director, who promised to pass an email along to Mr. George but
>couldn't guarantee I'd hear back from him.
I wouldn't hold my breath....
Paladin
<timberw...@infernosoft.com> wrote:
>Enough!
>
>http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9907/09/conrad.obit.01/
>
>"He was taken to the hospital with what were initially believed to be minor
>injuries, but died about six hours later from what the coroner says were
>internal injuries."
>
>Lack of oxygen, my ass!
The story was not that he died from lack of oxygen -- it was that
reduced oxygen levels caused a lapse of judgement that led to the
accident.
Timberwoof
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote:
> > TB Wrote:
>
> > "He was taken to the hospital with what were initially believed to be minor
> > injuries, i but died about six hours later from what the coroner says were
> > i internal injuries."
>
> > Lack of oxygen, my ass!
>
> What's inconsistent? Internal organs need oxygen or they suffer
> injury...duhhh.
The kind of damage would be noticeably different.
My roommate is a skydiver; he's also an expert in high-altitude skydiving.
Every few years he has to go to some Air Force hypobaric chamber to get his
hypoxia certification. He usually does this along with other high-altitude
skydivers and various pilots. The point of the exercise is for them to learn
how they react to hypoxia逆he specific symptoms are different for each person.
I'll bet you any amount of money that NASA astronauts also do this and are
familiar with the symptoms.
Your thesis appears to be that he suffocated in his motorcycle helmet, but was
revived just in time so that he could live on another six hours despite the
damage to his internal organs. But it doesn't work that way: hypoxia affects
the brain long before it affects other organs. First it makes you stupid (or
gives you a headache or makes you feel drunk or whatever) and then it kills
you. If Conrad had died of hypoxia ("suffocation"), it would have happened much
sooner than six hours after being admitted to ht ehospital. And the coroner
would have listed that, not this business about damage to internal organs.
In short, you don't know what you're talking about.
Timberwoof
Please see my other post about the special training that high-altitude
skydivers, pilots, and astronauts receive specifically to address the issue of
the effects of hypoxia.
Saddlebag
> In short, you don't know what you're talking about.
In short, I was being silly. If folks frequently died from hypoxia due
to full face helmet use, I'd have been dead a long long time ago.
Instead, I enjoy only a mild euphoria...
Saddlebag
> I wouldn't hold my breath....
It's your lucky day as now you don't have to. Simply don a full face
helmet for a few minutes and voila - suffocation that would rival a
good mob hit.
Big Bob
> Re: Bigbob's research. The only other caveat is if a rider is wearing
> a scarf that would cut off air supply around the neck.
Yeah, I know. I didn't bother since putting the face shield down to
full seal caused pretty much instant fogging. I couldn't make it out
of the alley like that let alone down the road.
> And if you've
> ever been in Ojai on a July afternoon, you'd know that wasn't in the
> realm of possibilities in Conrad's case.
Tomorrow's high for Ojai, CA is 67 degrees. Not exactly scarf weather.
And it's January!
-Big Bob
Jack Hunt
wrote:
>My roommate is a skydiver; he's also an expert in high-altitude skydiving.
>Every few years he has to go to some Air Force hypobaric chamber to get his
>hypoxia certification. He usually does this along with other high-altitude
>skydivers and various pilots.
I went through that several times but I never jumped out of a viable aircraft
except for training purposes.
> The point of the exercise is for them to learn
>how they react to hypoxia逆he specific symptoms are different for each person.
My symptoms were the same every time. After donning an oxygen mask and clearing
it every day for years, it got to be funny to watch people try it who don't do
it except when they have chamber training. The easy way to do it is, when you
sense hypoxia, put the mask over your nose and mouth, turn the regulator to 100%
and breath until your head clears. Then hold your breath, fasten the mask
bayonets, and help the others who have passed out in the chamber while trying to
fasten the mask first.
The last time I went through it, there was just me and a two-striper stewardess
from Air Force One. The instructor stayed outside the chamber. They blew out
the valve to simulate a rapid decompression. When that happens you have about
15 seconds of useful consciousness, then you pass out. I stuck the mask to my
face and gang-loaded the regulator. I took a couple of deep breaths and looked
over at the stewardess. She was making the last stab at the mask connector as
she rapidly lost consciousness. Bang, she was out. I looked at her, I looked
through the porthole at the instructor, knowing it would take 30 minutes to
safely re-compress the chamber from the simulated 32,000 feet. He triggered his
mike and said "Don't even think about it".
I stuck the mask to her face and put her regulator on 100%. After about 3
breaths she started coming around, then tried to fight me. Another couple of
breaths and she was fine. She had no memory of passing out or me helping her
once she got her head clear.
If the ABATE fiction had any credibility, she would have died 6 hours later, as
would I. I don't know about her, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.
>I'll bet you any amount of money that NASA astronauts also do this and are
>familiar with the symptoms.
I was through the chamber about 5 or 6 times. You can be sure an astronaut was
through it 100 times or more. It is absolutely impossible for a trained flyer
to get hypoxic and not know it, and take appropriate corrective actions.
BTW, the stewardess said Ronald Reagan was a nice guy to work for but George
Shultz was nicer. She said Alexander Haig was an a$$hole of the first order.
--
Jack
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Vito
cages 3 lanes wide all doing the 45mph limit and driving sensibly when out from
the left comes a 25' box van and bulls his way in. Then to add insult he begins
switching lanes like a nut and tailgating one cage after another. I'm staying
behind him.
SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of this rude
behavior she lazed his mirror. The attitude change was instantanious!! He
slowed and backed off the cage he'd been badgering and drove carefully for the
next few miles. When we finally arrived at a lite I rolled up beside him
expecting some words but he wouldn't even look over at us and turned left when
the lite changed. Now I've used a pistol-whipping to adjust attitudes a couple
times but who would have that that a little lazer could have such an effect. He
didn't even know that it was attached to a gun.
Denise Howard
arrived or that a road-rage incident might be underway, but because he
could no longer see. Lasers and eyes don't mix. It's a wonder he
didn't crash into someone as a result. Please don't use your
"technique" again.
In article <43de374c$0$23...@dingus.crosslink.net>, Vito
<vi...@crosslink.net> wrote:
--
Denise AFM #732 denise dot howard at comcast dot net
'00 SV650 | '00 929
Lippman Racing CBR 400RR
Greek Shipping Magnets
>SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of this rude
>behavior she lazed his mirror.
Yeah, real smart thing to do post-patriot-act.
Bill Walker
"Greek Shipping Magnets" <an.ass.is@x.x> wrote in message
news:d4mst1t6n1klnvuq1...@4ax.com...
You have to consider.. She could've shot out his tires with that pistol..
Josh Assing
You pulled a gun on someone where you were not in fear for YOUR life? You were,
in effect, chasing him (since you were behind him) Drew a pistol & aimed it him?
Did you give a thought (or maybe several) about how illegal that is? the other
people around him should it have discharged? The resulting accident if you had
blinded him?
TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE! I hope your local law enforcement reads this & revokes
your ccw (if you even have one, which I doubt) and witnesses turn you in for
reckless & illegal behaviour.
Shame.
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:56:56 -0500, "Vito" <vi...@crosslink.net> wrote:
--- AntiSpam/harvest ---
Remove X's to send email to me.
Justin
: SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of
: this rude behavior she lazed his mirror. The attitude change was
: instantanious!!
Let me get this right: You took out a laser while in traffic and pointed
it at a mirror which could have reflected it into someone's eyes, someone
who was driving a van down the highway at speed?
This has to be one of the most irresponsible things I've ever heard of
anyone doing. Please get off the road before you kill someone.
Justin
'02 Shadow VT750DC
ps. The stickers on the lasers we used in my undergraduate physics class
said "Do Not Look into LASER with Remaining Eye." There's a serious
reason behind this humor.
Rob Kleinschmidt
David Steuber wrote:
> "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsc...@aol.com> writes:
>
> > A semi-sealed space filled with glue fumes. And this is called
> > safety gear ?
>
> Good grief!
>
> Let's try to introduce some sanity to this debate. Where are the
> scientific tests that show reduced cognative or motor skills from
> wearing a motorcycle helmet for an extended period of time (say
> fifteen minutes)?
If they're not suffering from diminished mental capacity,
then why are they riding motorcycles ?
David Steuber
> If they're not suffering from diminished mental capacity,
> then why are they riding motorcycles ?
That's a question that is best asked of the people who prefere the
freedom of riding without a helmet.
~kurt
>
> SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of this rude
> behavior she lazed his mirror. The attitude change was instantanious!! He
Fucking idiots like you are the reason the Democrats keep trying to ban
all guns. You pull a gun on someone when you intend to shoot them - not
bullshit like this.
- Kurt
David Steuber
I gotta chime in with the others who said just how bad an idea this
was. Cellphones are common enough that waving around a pistol can get
you into a heap of trouble. Pistols are a last ditch self defense
tool. They are not for intimidation.
I really hope this story is just a bunch of BS.
Albert Nurick
> "Vito" <vi...@crosslink.net> writes:
>
> > Coming home just after dark Saturday we're stuck in the middle of a
> > pack of cages 3 lanes wide all doing the 45mph limit and driving
> > sensibly when out from the left comes a 25' box van and bulls his
> > way in. Then to add insult he begins switching lanes like a nut and
> > tailgating one cage after another. I'm staying behind him.
> >
> > SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of
> > this rude behavior she lazed his mirror. The attitude change was
> > instantanious!! He slowed and backed off the cage he'd been
> > badgering and drove carefully for the next few miles. When we
> > finally arrived at a lite I rolled up beside him expecting some
> > words but he wouldn't even look over at us and turned left when the
> > lite changed. Now I've used a pistol-whipping to adjust attitudes a
> > couple times but who would have that that a little lazer could have
> > such an effect. He didn't even know that it was attached to a gun.
>
> I gotta chime in with the others who said just how bad an idea this
> was. Cellphones are common enough that waving around a pistol can get
> you into a heap of trouble. Pistols are a last ditch self defense
> tool. They are not for intimidation.
>
> I really hope this story is just a bunch of BS.
Agreed. A bozo who'd brandish a weapon in this sitation belongs in an
institution, IMO.
--
Albert Nurick | "Everyone is entitled to his own
alb...@nurick.com | opinion, but not his own facts."
www.nurick.com |
04 FJR1300A / RCOS #7 | - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Jamin Kortegard
> SWMBO has a laser sight on her pocket pistol. After a mile or so of this rude
> behavior she lazed his mirror.
I can't imagine pointing a (presumably) loaded gun at an innocent person,
even if they didn't know I was doing it. I also can't imagine bragging about
it afterwards.
Even handling a loaded, unsecured gun in a moving vehicle, whether or not
you're pointing it at someone, is just begging for a negligent discharge.
Have you ever spilled a drink in your lap while driving? That's no fun. Hot
coffee can burn your skin. Now imagine the worst case result of a similar
slip while holding a gun instead of a travel mug.
I'm not jumping on your case for the sport of it, I assure you. You need to
SERIOUSLY re-evaluate your attitude toward firearm safety and responsibility
before someone ends up getting hurt or dead from such negligence.
--
Jamin Kortegard
popular sportbike / popular car
"Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match
for a good literbike at your side, kid."
- Michael
Vito
> He probably reacted as he did not because he thought the fuzz had
> arrived or that a road-rage incident might be underway, but because he
> could no longer see. Lasers and eyes don't mix. It's a wonder he
> didn't crash into someone as a result. Please don't use your
> "technique" again.
Naw, it's impossible to hold a lazer in anyone's eyes for even a fraction of a
second from two moving vehicles. Try it yourself.
Vito
news:d4mst1t6n1klnvuq1...@4ax.com...
Argueing with success?
Vito
Boohooohooo! Waaaaaa
> You pulled a gun on someone where you were not in fear for YOUR life? ...
Nobody "pulled a gun". My wife used a lazer light that could as well have been
a pointer as found in any store dealing pens. Get a grip .... a lazer grip?
Vito
> ps. The stickers on the lasers we used in my undergraduate physics class
> said "Do Not Look into LASER with Remaining Eye." There's a serious
> reason behind this humor.
>
ones in your lab and those sold as novelties and pointers in the name.
Vito
bunch of belly-up wimps! Your cowardice is the reason drivers like this persist.
And now you snivel when somebody shows one of them that his larger vehicle does
not assure his safety nor give him a right to bully others. Or perhaps you are
one of these bullies and resent getting you bubble popped. Hmmm??
"Vito" <vi...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
news:43de374c$0$23...@dingus.crosslink.net...
Greek Shipping Magnets
>Argueing with success?
No, just people who do stupid shit that gets all our rights thrown in
the crapper.
The same reason why rational riders can't wick it up without getting
Johnny Law up their ass... to many idiots pounding themselves into the
scenery cause they just bought a 150hp sportbike. Cops see that and
assume everyone is just as much of a menace to themselves. After all
they only have contact with us when somebody fucks up.
Same thing with guns. Somebody points a laser sight at someone else,
the cops come and search your vehicle, arrest you for being a dimwit.
Then anyone else who has a gun on their person gets treated like a
criminal too.
Josh Assing
Notice how no one supported your actions?
You said "laser sight on her pocket pistol" Therefor, she DREW THE PISTOL and
POINTED IT at someone...
Let's hope the next time this happens you don't get a return fire, or someone
slamming on their brakes to say "What's your issue?" while turning on their code
lights.
If a laser is pointed at someone; the typical reaction is "it's a laser sighted
gun, and I am the target"
As for blinding someone -- did you not hear about the pilots getting lasered
30,000 ft in the air? it only takes a fraction of a second.
Grow up; turn yourself in to law enforcement; and give up your guns. You & your
wife are a danger to yourselves & society.
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:45:12 -0500, "Dimwit" <vi...@crosslink.net> wrote:
>Boohooohooo! Waaaaaa
>
>> You pulled a gun on someone where you were not in fear for YOUR life? ...
>
>Nobody "pulled a gun". My wife used a lazer light that could as well have been
>a pointer as found in any store dealing pens. Get a grip .... a lazer grip?
>
Bob Myers
"Josh Assing" <Xjo...@jAssing.com> wrote in message
news:1s7vt1pnko911401e...@4ax.com...
> As for blinding someone -- did you not hear about the pilots getting
lasered
> 30,000 ft in the air? it only takes a fraction of a second.
Somewhat off topic - but no, I don't think ANYONE has heard
of that one. The alleged incidents of pilots "getting lasered" all
took place either while on the ground or during takeoff or landing,
with the presumed source a few hundred yards away at most.
The difficulty of keeping the beam directed at the cockpit over
such a distance for any length of time at all have caused many to
question the reports, or at least to question if they could possibly
have involved a simple "handheld" device.
For fun, draw a 1/2" circle on the wall across the room from you,
and then try to hit it with a laser pointer (and then hold the beam
within that circle for longer than an instant).
I completely agree, however, with the numerous comments that the
actions described in the original post were idiotic.
Bob M.
sqidbait
> My gawd what have motorcyclists come to?? Never in my life have I heard such a
> bunch of belly-up wimps! Your cowardice is the reason drivers like this persist.
Yeah, we know: you're a one percenter. You must be, 'cause you
keep posting all these rough and tumble stories to reeky. What was
the comment you made earlier in this thread? "Now I've used a
pistol-whipping to adjust attitudes." Whoah, I'd better not mess
with you!
Of course, what I can't figure out is what a true outlaw biker
would be doing in a newsgroup. You'd think a real biker would
be out in the bars, dusting things up, instead of posting how tough
he is from behind the safety of a computer screen.
Times do change though. Maybe the biker culture has as well. I guess
the Bandidos prefer PHP to PCP nowadays?
-- Michael
entropy_magnet
Er, you were the one that said it was attached to a gun.
Either way, most laser pointers are class IIIa, which are not horribly
eyesafe.
Although, they could likely be safer(eye-wise) than the laser that your
local law enforcement agency points at you(just because its infrared
doesn't mean its anywhere near eye-safe).
Wakko
news:1138733972.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Times do change though. Maybe the biker culture has as well. I guess
> the Bandidos prefer PHP to PCP nowadays?
Biker nerds are hot! Who wouldn't want to be one?
--
Wakko NTXNS TOMKAT SENS PHS BS#Pending
sqidbait
> "sqidbait" <sqid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138733972.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> > Times do change though. Maybe the biker culture has as well. I guess
> > the Bandidos prefer PHP to PCP nowadays?
>
> Biker nerds are hot! Who wouldn't want to be one?
Well, it's a bit of a pain at times. For example, I seem
to always lose the pens in my pocket protector whenever
I'm out giving punks a good chain-whipping.
-- Michael
~kurt
> My gawd what have motorcyclists come to?? Never in my life have I heard such a
> bunch of belly-up wimps! Your cowardice is the reason drivers like this persist.
Then why didn't you shoot him you fucking pussy. Because you are just like
the driver - a big man with threats. Threatening someone with a firearm is
not to be taken lightly. Had you pointed a gun at me, I would have probably
killed you.
- Kurt
~kurt
>
> As for blinding someone -- did you not hear about the pilots getting lasered
> 30,000 ft in the air? it only takes a fraction of a second.
I don't think that is entirely correct - especially at any distance with
a low power laser. I have a vague memory that the power (at point blank range)
was similar to staring at the sun - it will cause blindness with exposure, but
a fraction of a second shouldn't do much of anything - especially at a distance.
- Kurt
ROBERT MILLER
"~kurt" <actino...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:V1VDf.9760$vU2....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Sound like a new bs book in the making. Let me guess or bike is called
silver, well maybe trigger. lol Keep the safety on you might shoot your
tire out and hurt someone near by. One thing is to not ride in to the small
towns and do that. Where I live Farmers, vet's and alot of country people
shot back. And the ones that use rock salt loads, omg it hurts. As a kid
you learn the hard way. lol Point is you will run it to someone that will
care less, and your bs will become your nightmare. If you want fun and
games do on a Xbox or something like it. Where stupid Sh*# wont hurt anyone.
~kurt
>
> Sound like a new bs book in the making. Let me guess or bike is called
> silver, well maybe trigger. lol Keep the safety on you might shoot your
Were you replying to me? I can guarantee if that broad had pointed that
gun at me (and I had noticed), I would have tried killing her.
> tire out and hurt someone near by. One thing is to not ride in to the small
> towns and do that. Where I live Farmers, vet's and alot of country people
> shot back. And the ones that use rock salt loads, omg it hurts. As a kid
In those areas, people don't pull out their firearms unless they have
both reason and intent. The described situation would have never occurred.
> you learn the hard way. lol Point is you will run it to someone that will
> care less, and your bs will become your nightmare. If you want fun and
People who don't care less? How does telling a motorist who is in the
process of trying to run you off the road while you are on your bike
and he is in his car, to fuck off - just so you can say it to his face -
sound like caring? Or how about confronting some assholes in their SUV head
to head - except you are on foot - and they are driving right towards you (the
pussies didn't have the guts to run me over - even after their tough talking).
Or how 'bout telling the large group of Mexicans in the apartment parking lot
who are drunk and having a party at 02:00 to shut the fuck up and get the hell
out - by yourself? Yea, I've done a lot of stupid stuff, so I guess I'm one
of those people who must not care - so far I haven't gotten myself killed.
- Kurt
David Steuber
> My gawd what have motorcyclists come to?? Never in my life have I
> heard such a bunch of belly-up wimps! Your cowardice is the reason
> drivers like this persist. And now you snivel when somebody shows
> one of them that his larger vehicle does not assure his safety nor
> give him a right to bully others. Or perhaps you are one of these
> bullies and resent getting you bubble popped. Hmmm??
Try to get some perspective. If I saw someone pointing a gun at me,
or something that looked like a gun, I would naturally assume I was
about to be shot at. In a car, I can't draw and shoot back but I can
do other things like run your ass into the guard rail. A car can be a
weapon too. Whatever the situation, you can bet your ass I will do
whatever is necessary to avoid getting shot at.
If someone is being an ass in a car or truck, there are other ways to
deal with them. Get their plate, back off, use a cell phone. What's
so hard about that?
This post was brought to you by the word "ass".
ROBERT MILLER
No wasnt for you i posted it worng. sorry
ROBERT MILLER
Sound like a new bs book in the making. Let me guess or bike is called
silver, well maybe trigger. lol Keep the safety on you might shoot your
tire out and hurt someone near by. One thing is to not ride in to the small
towns and do that. Where I live Farmers, vet's and alot of country people
shot back. And the ones that use rock salt loads, omg it hurts. As a kid
you learn the hard way. lol Point is you will run it to someone that will
care less, and your bs will become your nightmare. If you want fun and
Jamin Kortegard
> My gawd what have motorcyclists come to?? Never in my life have I heard such
> a bunch of belly-up wimps! Your cowardice is the reason drivers like this
> persist.
Do you think the van driver has mended his errant ways after you threatened
him with your laser sighted handgun?
> And now you snivel when somebody shows one of them that his larger vehicle
> does not assure his safety nor give him a right to bully others. Or perhaps
> you are one of these bullies and resent getting you bubble popped. Hmmm??
I think you're projecting here.
I sympathize with your intentions, trying to make the crazy driver
straighten up, but your methods were foolish at best.
Vito
> the cops come and search your vehicle, arrest you for being a dimwit.
> Then anyone else who has a gun on their person gets treated like a
> criminal too.
Not around here. I live in America.
Vito
> Notice how no one supported your actions?
Yes. I assume you all piss on your feet in the shower too.
>
> You said "laser sight on her pocket pistol" Therefor, she DREW THE PISTOL
and
> POINTED IT at someone...
Wrong. I said she pointed it at a mirror. The driver himself was hidded behind
the truck's box.
>
> Let's hope the next time this happens you don't get a return fire, or someone
> slamming on their brakes to say "What's your issue?" while turning on their
code
> lights.
Code lights?? On a 20' box van driven to endanger everyone around it? I don't
think so.
> As for blinding someone -- did you not hear about the pilots getting lasered
> 30,000 ft in the air? it only takes a fraction of a second.
Your ignorance is appalling. I am quite familiar with the high-powered lazers
used for such purposes. AFAIK they are unavailable outside the military and R&D
labs. We, OTOH are talking about light emitting diodes (LED) with microwatts of
power in a different frequency band - the same ones as in levels found in
harware stores, pointers found in stationary stores and even some toys.
>
> Grow up; turn yourself in to law enforcement; and give up your guns. You &
your
> wife are a danger to yourselves & society.
Go pee on your feet some more and see if they grow.
Vito
> Of course, what I can't figure out is what a true outlaw biker
We get too old for it. Besides, I never claimed nor thot of myself as 1%. I am
merely an American, which means that I have every legal and moral right to
defend myself against potentially deadly attack, whether the attackers weapon of
choice is a knife, gun, club or 10 ton truck. It is certainly foolish to try to
fight a car or truck from a bike and it is normally equally foolish to warn an
enemy of your intent to attack. My preferred method of dealing with attackers
using cages as weapons has been, for half a century, to simply wait for an
opportune moment when they are forced to stop then send them to the ER. Simply
walk up to the car, open the door with your left hand, grab their hair with your
right, pull their head part out, then close the door on it a few times. I'm
sure y'all can be a lot more creative if you try.
9 times out of 10 no 'opportune time' will present itself but that's the breaks.
OTOH, cringing before every bully in a car or truck that comes along simply
encourages them to attack more often.
Vito
> Well, it's a bit of a pain at times. For example, I seem
> to always lose the pens in my pocket protector whenever
> I'm out giving punks a good chain-whipping.
>
Greek Shipping Magnets
Yeah, that's the attitude. I'm an American, so I can do whatever the
fuck I want.
Must be why guns and motorcycles aren't being legislated left and
right. Right?
Vito
> Then why didn't you shoot him you fucking pussy. Because you are just like
> the driver - a big man with threats. Threatening someone with a firearm is
> not to be taken lightly. Had you pointed a gun at me, I would have probably
> killed you.
>
1) No need. 1000s of crimes are detered every year by the mere presence of
superior force - far more than are stopped by deadly force. 2) No opportunity to
do so without coming alongside - ie: giving him a great shot at me with his
truck.
Threatening anyone - firearm or not - is not to be taken lightly. The man in
question was threating me and everyone around him with a 10 ton truck. Had any
LEO seen him he would have been ticketed. But there were no LEOs nor anyone he
felt could hurt him. That's why he persisted ... until he realized his truck
didn't guarantee his safety.
Nobody pointed a gun at anyone, 6 ft from the driver. The lazer - which
coincidentally was attached to a gun - was pointed at a mirror. The driver
himself was invisible behind and totally protected by the trucks 20' box body.
You kill me? Bwahahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh. If I pointed a gun at you
that would mean you had already made some deadly threat so you'd be dead.
Vito
> Try to get some perspective. .... A car can be a
> weapon too. .....
>
That's the point! In this case the driver was using his big truck as a weapon to
threaten and intimidate everybody around.
> If someone is being an ass in a car or truck, there are other ways to
> deal with them. Get their plate, back off, use a cell phone. What's
> so hard about that?
I dunno what dream world you live on but reality is that police will never
respond in time to observe the actions. Therefore they will make no effort to
find let alone arrest the driver. It's just your word against his.