Triumph sells 10K units in US
Andrew
Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Toddler
Greg O
news:5008anF...@mid.individual.net...
Good for them!
It seems funny when you compare their sales to other manufacturers. I don't
know what the four big Jap brands did, but in '05 Harley sold 329,000 bikes
world wide. My bet is that Honda's numbers are a bit more.
--
PoorUB
'05 Ultra Classic
'06 MAMBM
BryanUT
"Greg O" <goo19...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:12pltpo...@corp.supernews.com...
Listening to NPR at lunch today they mentioned the enormity of the Chinese
motorcyle industry, yet there is no single (nor even multiple large corps.).
Just 1000s of small specialized factories each producing one component, i.e.
carbs or final assembly.
It is almost an "open source" version of building motorcycles. With about
the same quality control as open source software (sorry linux fanboys). :)
Seriously though 10k units is really small, especially when you consider the
number of models they sell. They could probably lower costs and improve
quality if they reduced their offerings.
Of course if I knew anything, I'd own my business....
Bryan
Saddlebag
Andrew wrote:
> http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=27865
>
> Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
MCN usually prints all the mfg US sales once a year. I'll go through
my pile later and see if I can get the numbers. I think its around 6k
though. They usually battle with Buell for last place.
BryanUT
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1167787815....@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I'm guessing they do a whole lot more business in England and Euroland.
>
Perhaps. But I need an economist to help me out.
For the sake of discussion: IF they made $5k profit per bike (and that is a
BIG if) then we the following 10000 units X 5000 per unit equals $50 million
?
Think about it: America is the 3rd largest country in the WORLD and they
only sell 10k units?
I guess I just don't get it. How are they even in business?
Bryan
B. Peg
> Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
Dunno, but I got these numbers for BMW 2005 sales out of the Jan. 2007 Rider
magazine (page 51).
Germany has sales of 24,000 BMW's annually.
USA is 2nd with 12,800 units.
Italy is 3rd with 12,700 units.
Seems odd that Itay is only 100 bikes behind the U.S.
B~
_Bob_Nixon
wrote:
I've heard Triumph sells more than Aprilia, Ducati or any other Euro
bike in the USA and is pushing close to Kawasaki. This industry ain't
like "cages" Bryan! It's mostly a discretionary recreational industry.
And as for HD selling over 300K units, that doesn't surprise me.
After all, how many Wolves are there compared to all the sheep in the
world, anyway:) Prey outnumber predators by >10:1.
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 55K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures
BryanUT
"_Bob_Nixon" <bi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u54mp2t4r6r3hq0fd...@4ax.com...
>
> After all, how many Wolves are there compared to all the sheep in the
> world, anyway:) Prey outnumber predators by >10:1.
>
Hehe, now that is a great analogy.
I still don't get the economics though.
Bryan
(Hmmm, I work at the U., perhaps I should take a class in economics?)
Greg O
I found one reference to Yamaha exporting 436,000 bikes in the eleven months
ending in February, '05.
Also found on a Honda web page Honda sold 615,000 units in North America.
The figures include Honda motorcycles, 322.000 units, (All Honda
motorcycles, dirt bikes, to touring bikes), all-terrain vehicles, units
(ATV's) and personal watercraft (PWC). 283,000 units combined, ATV and PWC.
(Fiscal 2006)
Where did the remaining 10, 000 units go?? It would be interesting to see a
more detailed break down, per model or at least type of cycle.
Jim Stinnett
> http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=27865
>
> Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
>
with that?
--
Jim Stinnett
R1100RS
YZF R1
NX250
http://moto-rama.com
_Bob_Nixon
wrote:
>Andrew wrote:
>> http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=27865
>>
>> Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
>>
>They (Triumph) passed on the Intl MC Show here in SF though. What is up
>with that?
Jim, they've passed on all the international shows for the past two
years. I guess they figure it doesn't help sales to spand big-$$ on
advertising as they've been selling more bikes every year since their
intro into the USA in 1995. I see lots of S3's & Sprints in PHX. A lot
more than Ducati's or any Euro bikes except BMW's.
Saddlebag
2005 (rounded to nearest thousand)
Honda 258k
Harley 250k
Yami 152k
Suzi 116k
Kawi 95k
BMW 14k
Triumph 8k
Victory 6k
Ducati 6k
Buell 6k
The big winners over 2004
Kaw +8%
Victory +43%
Ducati +11%
Looks like Triumph will be the big winner for '06.
BryanUT
"~kurt" <actino...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gQGmh.10131$X72....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> BryanUT <nest...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> It is almost an "open source" version of building motorcycles. With
>> about
>> the same quality control as open source software (sorry linux fanboys).
>> :)
>
> source?
>
> - Kurt
Hook, line, sinker. Hehe.
Stephan Rose
wrote:
>BryanUT <nest...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> It is almost an "open source" version of building motorcycles. With about
>> the same quality control as open source software (sorry linux fanboys). :)
>
>Where did you get the idea there is a lack of quality control with open
>source?
>
Dunno about him but I got that idea the last time I used an open
source application. =)
--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6
kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa
kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara
Steve Mackay
sales is around 10K
European sales outnumber USA sales for Buell.
TroytheTroll
> sales is around 10K
> European sales outnumber USA sales for Buell.
More proof of the overall gullibility of Europeans I suppose....
"Don't worry, I just need Czechoslovakia".....
Greg O
news:459c1b94$0$5194$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
>>
>>
> Buell sells LESS than 10K in the USA. I think their TOTAL worldwide sales
> is around 10K
> European sales outnumber USA sales for Buell.
Buell shipped out 11,166 bikes in 2005. Slightly more that 6000 bikes
shipped international, so less than 5000 bikes stayed in the USA.
Information from HD financials.
So your info was pretty accurate. In '03 it was the other way around. 10,900
bikes built, about 3000 shipped international, so around 7000 units stayed
in the USA. That must have been a kick in the ass for HD to loose that much
sales volume in the USA over a couple years!!
On the other hand about 55,000 Harley Davidson's shipped international, so
that leaves about 275,000 sold in the USA! The ratio for international
versus domestic has stayed the same, but the numbers keep going up!
In '98 HD sold 150,000 bikes, '05 329,000!! Wow! Doubled sales volume in 7
years! Tripled since '95, (105,000 units)!
TroytheTroll
> that leaves about 275,000 sold in the USA! The ratio for international
> versus domestic has stayed the same, but the numbers keep going up!
> In '98 HD sold 150,000 bikes, '05 329,000!! Wow! Doubled sales volume in 7
> years! Tripled since '95, (105,000 units)!
How many bikes will Hardley have to sell before they make more money selling
bikes rather than tshirts and suchlike?
BryanUT
"TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DuKdnfuVab8XwQHY...@giganews.com...
>
> How many bikes will Hardley have to sell before they make more money
> selling bikes rather than tshirts and suchlike?
Ya know Troy, I hate to say it but the BUYING public likes Harleys. Get
over it.
Bryan
(But go ahead and continue to critic the "parade" crowd and their lack of
riding skills, hehe. See motorcycle deaths thread below.)
BryanUT
> BryanUT <nest...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hook, line, sinker. Hehe.
>>
>
> Oh, I could see you trolling - still I was curious to see where you got
> the opinion from.
Well I was working for Novell when they bought Suse and Xmian, and was
there for the transition from Windows/Office to Suse/OpenOffice. Not a bad
experience.
I also worked on Redcarpet, made a few bug fixes. My first exposure to
Python. I found the error handling very sloppy and I have generalized that
experience.
And yeah, as a software engineer, I hate to say it, but in general software
QA sucks, it is such a trade off between time and $.
I am no M$ fanboy either. Just decades if frustration coming out.
Regards,
Bryan
TroytheTroll
"BryanUT" <nest...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BaOdnRRzarOI_AHY...@comcast.com...
>
> "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DuKdnfuVab8XwQHY...@giganews.com...
>>
>> How many bikes will Hardley have to sell before they make more money
>> selling bikes rather than tshirts and suchlike?
>
> Ya know Troy, I hate to say it but the BUYING public likes Harleys. Get
> over it.
Get over what? I asked a simple and straightforward question directly
related to how Hardley actually makes their money, the answer to which
should make obvious what Hardley does as a business. Don't blame ME for what
is by now a known answer to all of us.
> (But go ahead and continue to critic the "parade" crowd and their lack of
> riding skills, hehe. See motorcycle deaths thread below.)
I wish nobody got killed on bikes. Getting killed sucks. Experienced,
squids, whatever, why can't the consequences of getting caught out be a
little road rash, maybe a broken bone ( not any important ones ),just enough
to not convince you not to do it again?
_Bob_Nixon
wrote:
Bryan, we're NOT the typical buying public in this group or at least
I'd like to think that's those folks who frequent this NG and interact
the most are a cut above aaverage.
IOW, a more savvy lot should know the difference between slow
cumbersome butt jewelry like Harley's and fun bikes to ride like sport
bikes. Do you or have you ever heard the term Neophyte? Well that's
the type of folks who buy Harley bikes and Aspencade & Navigator SUV's
with 21" wheels and spinner hubcaps. Think about that parallel for a
minute, Bryan. Here you are a 40-year-old family man with an EE
degree. Certainly after hanging around other sportbikers and
interacting in this NG, I would think you would know better than
bowing to the silly Harley Gods:) Hell, just a couple of months ago
you were crowing about the new Miller racetrack. I thought you might
talk yourself into doing a track day.
What's happened to you? I was nearly killed by a deer a couple of
years ago but was back on a bike with one leg a little after one year
later & still riding faster than half the dudes in this NG. I'll bet
99% of the members in this group my age would have either died or
never thought about getting on a MC again. My point! It's way to
"early" for you to down step to a slow motion HD.
If you can't understand this basic concept then maybe you ought to
spend more time in RM & RMH where the social and status aspect of
motorcycles are more important than actually riding the things.
I'm saying this with as much tact as I can muster considering your
late change of heart toward the downside of motorcycles + what you
just posted to Troy.
Hint: This group is about Sport bikes. Period!
Stephan Rose
wrote:
>Stephan Rose <ker...@somrek.diespammer.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dunno about him but I got that idea the last time I used an open
>> source application. =)
>
>Well, see my other post. You are going to find bad apps and good ones -
>just like commercial software. A lot of commercial companies have code
>that has gotten so far out of control they can barely keep it running.
Oh I agree, there is plenty commercial shit out there as well. No
arguments about that here!!
And sure, there may be a couple open source things that are reasonably
decent...I use gcc for some of my arm development. Though it isn't as
good as the IAR compiler.
Saddlebag
Hey, have ye'all seen the new SPORTster?
timk...@yahoo.com
> On the other hand about 55,000 Harley Davidson's shipped international, so
> that leaves about 275,000 sold in the USA! The ratio for international
> versus domestic has stayed the same, but the numbers keep going up!
> In '98 HD sold 150,000 bikes, '05 329,000!! Wow! Doubled sales volume in 7
> years! Tripled since '95, (105,000 units)!
No matter how you feel about Harleys, those are impressive numbers. The
greater wonder (for me, at least) is in contemplating what their total
yearly sales in branding their logo onto everything from coffee cups to
women's underwear might be. Every time I see a Harley Decal on the back
window of an SUV, I don't think about a motorcycle. I think about the
bikeless, sheep-like consumer behind the wheel whose mindless
group-think has helped make Willy G a very, very rich man.
Note to self for the new year: Find a way to exploit the blind
patriotism of the masses for huge profits -- and make them love me for
it.
Cheers,
Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
http://www.timkreitz.com
TroytheTroll
>> Hint: This group is about Sport bikes. Period!
>
> Hey, have ye'all seen the new SPORTster?
>
Hardleys definition of SPORTster strikes me as silly as Mikes version of
"math skills".
Mike
wrote:
In the 1960s the Sportster was the fastest bike around.
Regards
Mike
Go Bears!
Join the Minutemen.
http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/
PETITION TO THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS & President Bush
to Stop Amnesty for Illegal Aliens.HIT THE LINK BELOW and fill out the form. Takes one minute or so.
Greg O
news:1167938361.8...@6g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
The sales of the "general merchandise" is only about 5% of the company's
total, or $250 Million in '05. Net revenue was $5,342 Million in '05. Income
from motorcycle sales was about $4,135 million in '05.
Like I have said before, HD will not live or die from sales of general
merchandise. It is a huge chunk of money, but not much in the total.
All this information is available on HD's web page.
BryanUT
"Mike" <mf2112RE...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i73rp2lkucg9qnhua...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:27:21 -0700, "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>>> Hint: This group is about Sport bikes. Period!
>>>
>>> Hey, have ye'all seen the new SPORTster?
>>>
>>
>>Hardleys definition of SPORTster strikes me as silly as Mikes version of
>>"math skills".
>
>
> In the 1960s the Sportster was the fastest bike around.
>
Are you sure? I thought they built the sportster to compete with the BSA
and Triumph 650s. I don't think a 60s sportster was faster than a Norton.
As a matter of fact I believe the Honda 305s would give the sportster a run
for its money.
But I still like sportys.
Bryan
Greg O
Say what you want, but shirts and general merchandise is only about 5% of
the pie for HD. Look it up on the web page if you don't believe Me!
Many people mistakenly think that HD would be out of business if it was not
for all the clothing and crap they sell, again, it is only 5%!!
To put it in some perspective, say you made $50,000 at your job last year.
Your boss comes in and says you are getting a 5% raise in pay, or an
additional $2,500 a year. Great, but your life style would not change one
bit!
Say HD dropped the General merchandise completely. In '05 the total revenue
of the company was $5,300 million, so they drop the total revenue buy $250
million, so the total revenue ends up being $5,050 million instead! Big
deal! Also consider that HD have a profit for '05 of almost $1 billion, or
almost 20%!
Greg O
"TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Bqadna8JQquO4QHY...@giganews.com...
>
> Get over what? I asked a simple and straightforward question directly
> related to how Hardley actually makes their money, the answer to which
> should make obvious what Hardley does as a business. Don't blame ME for
> what is by now a known answer to all of us.
>
>
> --
Known by who? You and a few other misguided folks?
The idea that HD makes most of their money on clothing is ridiculous!
Read the financials! "General Merchandise" is a drop in the bucket!
It is like one of those urban legends everyone hears, and assumes it is
true!
Think about what you are saying! HD made a profit of almost $1 billion in
'05 an clothing sales of $250 million dollars???
Greg O
news:7b4pp21j0q72s28k1...@4ax.com...
Sure it is a sportbike group, so I guess nobody should ever mention HD, or
touring bikes in general!
You bash people for their choice of bikes, why? Just because your bike goes
faster it is better? Different strokes for different folks. I like
sportbikes, but I don't own one. The thought of riding a few thousand miles
in a week, with my wife on back and packing a weeks worth of supplies, my
preferred type of ride, does not lend itself to a sportbike. Now if I wanted
to ride solo, short rides, and blast around a track 95% of the time, fine!
I ride with a pack of sportbikers once in a while, twenty sport bikers, with
an Ultra Classic tagging along! All of them give me a shocked, deer in the
head lights look when I mention putting on 3000 miles over 4-5 days! The
majority of them rarely put on 50 miles in a day! One of them was bragging
that he had put on 1000 miles this last year!
BryanUT
"Greg O" <goo19...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:12pr7r7...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Sure it is a sportbike group, so I guess nobody should ever mention HD, or
> touring bikes in general!
> You bash people for their choice of bikes, why? Just because your bike
> goes faster it is better? Different strokes for different folks. I like
> sportbikes, but I don't own one. The thought of riding a few thousand
> miles in a week, with my wife on back and packing a weeks worth of
> supplies, my preferred type of ride, does not lend itself to a sportbike.
> Now if I wanted to ride solo, short rides, and blast around a track 95% of
> the time, fine!
> I ride with a pack of sportbikers once in a while, twenty sport bikers,
> with an Ultra Classic tagging along! All of them give me a shocked, deer
> in the head lights look when I mention putting on 3000 miles over 4-5
> days! The majority of them rarely put on 50 miles in a day! One of them
> was bragging that he had put on 1000 miles this last year!
>
I am not sure where you live, but around here 200-300 miles is almost
required for a "good ride", anything less is just a ride.
I way I see it is this: if you are only putting 1000 miles a year on bike
then you are a poser. I don't care what kind of bike you ride.
That being said, I am not a mileage whore either, I've got nothing to prove
or brag about.
Bryan
TroytheTroll
>
>
> "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Bqadna8JQquO4QHY...@giganews.com...
>>
>> Get over what? I asked a simple and straightforward question directly
>> related to how Hardley actually makes their money, the answer to which
>> should make obvious what Hardley does as a business. Don't blame ME for
>> what is by now a known answer to all of us.
>>
>>
>> --
>
> Known by who? You and a few other misguided folks?
I am familiar with the pathetic stats on a Sportster...just saw a used one
today, apparently they weigh 550 pounds dry or so. And I imagine they make
up for this by making outstanding horsepower? Wild and crazy lean angles?
Heck...a passenger?
> The idea that HD makes most of their money on clothing is ridiculous!
Really?
> Read the financials! "General Merchandise" is a drop in the bucket!
> It is like one of those urban legends everyone hears, and assumes it is
> true!
>
Ya think the profit made on motorcycles is really more than tshirts and
buttless pants and such?
> Think about what you are saying! HD made a profit of almost $1 billion in
> '05 an clothing sales of $250 million dollars???
So you are saying they made at LEAST 750 million PROFIT off of bike sales?
TroytheTroll
> wrote:
>
>>
>>>> Hint: This group is about Sport bikes. Period!
>>>
>>> Hey, have ye'all seen the new SPORTster?
>>>
>>
>>Hardleys definition of SPORTster strikes me as silly as Mikes version of
>>"math skills".
>
>
> In the 1960s the Sportster was the fastest bike around.
Well gee....I wonder if anything has improved since then?
<footfalls diminishing in the distance....footfalls getting louder coming
back>
Yup...I checked....stuff has gotten better. And Hardley never could squash
that young upstart Honda in Formula One racing....oh...thats
right....Hardley can't even COMPETE at the LOCAL roadracing level, let alone
the world level.
The same level which Honda competes..and occasionally even WINS at, I might
add.
Strikes me if you want to be taken seriously, you beat up the other guy and
then point it out to everyone. Hardley had how many decades head start over
Honda? Maybe if they had an extra century of two, they could at least build
something "sporty" rather than heavy, underpowered, ain't been improved
since the 60's type stuff?
TroytheTroll
> Many people mistakenly think that HD would be out of business if it was
> not
> for all the clothing and crap they sell, again, it is only 5%!!
Then I must look and see!
We can't have these bad impressions of Hardley ( besides all the pathetic
stats, stats as in weights and measures, with roadracing results thrown in
just for fun ) we must verify them! I shall look! Will that make you happy!
Or must I then stop pointing out wet weights! And horsepower! And lean
angles! Or is that unfair!
BryanUT
>
>
> We can't have these bad impressions of Hardley ( besides all the pathetic
> stats, stats as in weights and measures,
Are you kidding? They build very heavy bikes. Seems to me they far from
pathetic.
>with roadracing results thrown in
Well I don't think H-D corporate gives a rat's ass about roadracing.
Although they seem to have a passing interest in all H-D drag racing and
flat track. I think they put on a good show, from what I see on the TV.
> just for fun ) we must verify them! I shall look! Will that make you
> happy! Or must I then stop pointing out wet weights! And horsepower! And
> lean angles! Or is that unfair!
Well, they do note their lean angles on their WEB site, nobody else does.
Bryan
(Who really hates virtually all Honda cruisers, man they really suck!)
TroytheTroll
> '06 MAMBM
Whats a mambam?
TroytheTroll
> then you are a poser. I don't care what kind of bike you ride.
>
Hell, I can put 1000 miles a year on a trackbike for cryin out loud...but
then we all know thats worth like 100,000 street miles.
We gots them Iron Butt boys BEAT!
And we don't even have to mindless wander down interstates to do it!!
TroytheTroll
>
> Well I don't think H-D corporate gives a rat's ass about roadracing.
You mean except for the better part of the decade where privateers on
streetbikes were usually beating the Hardleys? The ones which, after years
of refinement, would occasionally burst into flame just to spice up a boring
day of racing?
> Although they seem to have a passing interest in all H-D drag racing and
> flat track. I think they put on a good show, from what I see on the TV.
I like flat track. I liked it when Bubba Shobert was DA MAN! and then Honda
got bored and went on to win more WORLD championships rather than stick to
just the kiddie pool. But hey, if its a show you want, Hardley can do that,
kinda like NASCAR I suppose, make the racing so exciting by penalizing
everyone with a good idea or better rider and then call the result
"competition". Limit nearly all racing to a single direction, refuse to
participate when it rains, pretend it means something!!
>
>> just for fun ) we must verify them! I shall look! Will that make you
>> happy! Or must I then stop pointing out wet weights! And horsepower! And
>> lean angles! Or is that unfair!
>
> Well, they do note their lean angles on their WEB site, nobody else does.
>
Maybe because its a limiting factor on Hardleys, whereas on sportbikes, you
usually fall down prior to reaching max lean. So its not like it matters.
When my ground hugging weight can't overwhelm a gixxer 750's stock
suspension in a 100mph corner I figure the actual max lean angle may not
matter as much as it does on a Hardley where putting down the kickstand I
can probably drag the cases.
Greg O
>> Think about what you are saying! HD made a profit of almost $1 billion in
>> '05 an clothing sales of $250 million dollars???
>
> So you are saying they made at LEAST 750 million PROFIT off of bike sales?
Yep! Actually the rest was mostly from bike sales and some profit from HD
credit, and HD parts. But the bulk of profit was bike sales.
Read the financials at HD's web site if ya don't believe me!
--
Greg O
>
>> '06 MAMBM
>
> Whats a mambam?
It is a annual get to gather from the bunch at RMH.
Unlike most news groups, the bunch from RMH actually try to meet each other
in public a few times a year. Last year was my first, but trying to make a
couple meets this year.
TroytheTroll
> "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AdydnQt95pFjOADY...@giganews.com...
>
>>> Think about what you are saying! HD made a profit of almost $1 billion
>>> in '05 an clothing sales of $250 million dollars???
>>
>> So you are saying they made at LEAST 750 million PROFIT off of bike
>> sales?
>
> Yep!
Amazing! To think that there are that many well heeled dentists in America
and around the world...
>Actually the rest was mostly from bike sales and some profit from HD
>credit, and HD parts. But the bulk of profit was bike sales.
> Read the financials at HD's web site if ya don't believe me!
I will !
TroytheTroll
> "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:84Gdnak6fOvbUQDY...@giganews.com...
>>
>>> '06 MAMBM
>>
>> Whats a mambam?
>
> It is a annual get to gather from the bunch at RMH.
Rocky Mountain Highschool?
> Unlike most news groups, the bunch from RMH actually try to meet each
> other in public a few times a year. Last year was my first, but trying to
> make a couple meets this year.
Well, this is more of a social club I always figured, but some of us have
managed to bump into each other before. Saddle isn't near the grouch he
pretends to be here, and Larrys wife is alot cuter than he is, and even Bob
isn't an all bad type for a one legged old guy who doesn't like Hardleys any
more than I do.
Jamin
> I ride with a pack of sportbikers once in a while, twenty sport bikers, with
> an Ultra Classic tagging along! All of them give me a shocked, deer in the
> head lights look when I mention putting on 3000 miles over 4-5 days! The
> majority of them rarely put on 50 miles in a day! One of them was bragging
> that he had put on 1000 miles this last year!
Those are a special type of sportbikers. I like to call them "pussy
sportbikers", or just simply "pussies" for short. They can sometimes be fun
to hang out with, but usually start complaining when the ride gets too long
so I try to avoid actually riding with them.
While you're right that hauling a wife and luggage around for a few thousand
miles is a better job for a tourer than a sportbike, if you go solo and pack
light, you can tour on a sportbike just fine. You have to give up some
luxuries, like cup holders, CD changers, and massive amounts of lockable
storage, but I find the tradeoff worthwhile.
--
Jamin
"I don't want a pickle..."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Bob Myers
"BryanUT" <nest...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Et2dnZCXaq_9NwDY...@comcast.com...
> Well I don't think H-D corporate gives a rat's ass about roadracing.
> Although they seem to have a passing interest in all H-D drag racing and
> flat track. I think they put on a good show, from what I see on the TV.
Let's face it - NOBODY'S "corporate" actually gives a
rat's ass about roadracing, or any other form of motor sport,
for its own sake. A motorcycle manufacturer (or a motorcycle
division of a larger corporation) races primarily because it's
good marketing, and helps the bottom line. (And secondarily,
perhaps, and trailing that first concern by a LONG way, because
it "improves the breed." The days of racing really having much
of an impact on street technology are long over for the cages,
though, and I strongly suspect that a lack of racing involvement
wouldn't severely impact most motorcycle development these
days, either.) If your marketing model works for you without
racing, and you don't have any reason to believe that getting
into racing would significantly improve your financials, you
don't race. It's as simple as that. Racing of any sort is way to
damned expensive for a company to get into just because they
think it'd be fun.
As usually happens with this things, this thread is quickly devolving
into arguments about HD as a company on the one hand, and
about the desirability of their products on the other. I have
absolutely nothing but respect for Harley as a company, in terms
of their financial performance and so forth; I wish I'd plowed a
big pile of money into their stock back when it was in the toilet.
I just don't happen to have any desire to own one of their bikes,
and have little understanding of those who do. But hey, not
everyone has the same taste in food, clothes, or anything else, and
if someone else wants to make a choice that would seem to me
personally to be silly, what is it to me?
Bob M.
Bryan
Greg O wrote:
> "TroytheTroll" <f4_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:84Gdnak6fOvbUQDY...@giganews.com...
> >
> >> '06 MAMBM
> >
> > Whats a mambam?
>
> It is a annual get to gather from the bunch at RMH.
> Unlike most news groups, the bunch from RMH actually try to meet each other
> in public a few times a year. Last year was my first, but trying to make a
> couple meets this year.
>
Moab, UT around June 20th, some of us are meeting there. We met last
year and had pretty good time.
This year it looks like we'll have riders from the east coast, CA, TX
and Canada. Ping me if you want more info. We don't really care what
Andrew
> "BryanUT" <nest...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Et2dnZCXaq_9NwDY...@comcast.com...
>> Well I don't think H-D corporate gives a rat's ass about roadracing.
>> Although they seem to have a passing interest in all H-D drag racing and
>> flat track. I think they put on a good show, from what I see on the TV.
>
> Let's face it - NOBODY'S "corporate" actually gives a
> rat's ass about roadracing, or any other form of motor sport,
> for its own sake. A motorcycle manufacturer (or a motorcycle
> division of a larger corporation) races primarily because it's
> good marketing, and helps the bottom line. (And secondarily,
> perhaps, and trailing that first concern by a LONG way, because
> it "improves the breed." The days of racing really having much
> of an impact on street technology are long over for the cages,
> though, and I strongly suspect that a lack of racing involvement
> wouldn't severely impact most motorcycle development these
> days, either.)
Ducati, who sells 6K bikes a year in the USA and maybe 20K bikes a year
worldwide, races and wins occasionally.
Triumph needs to sponsor a 675 series, and get that bike into some AMA
classes.
They could learn some lessons from Ducati regarding racing.
--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Toddler
Greg O
news:1168033538.3...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
I'll lose my job so my summer will be open!
The bunch that meets from RMH come from both ends of the country too. Crazy
people will ride from anywhere for free beer and food!
Greg O
news:C1C3DD5A.1F115%no...@notmymail.com...
>
>
> Those are a special type of sportbikers. I like to call them "pussy
> sportbikers", or just simply "pussies" for short. They can sometimes be
> fun
> to hang out with, but usually start complaining when the ride gets too
> long
> so I try to avoid actually riding with them.
>
> While you're right that hauling a wife and luggage around for a few
> thousand
> miles is a better job for a tourer than a sportbike, if you go solo and
> pack
> light, you can tour on a sportbike just fine. You have to give up some
> luxuries, like cup holders, CD changers, and massive amounts of lockable
> storage, but I find the tradeoff worthwhile.
>
>
I like the touring bike, like the cruise control, XM radio, big ass
windshield, luggage. Plus I wanna keep mama around to help support my bad
habits, so I need the extra seating room! If all I had was a sportbike, I
would be one of the pussies!
I have ridden a few different sportbikes and did enjoy them, but just not my
preferred means of travel.
Bob Myers
"Andrew" <yogig.nosp...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:50821dF...@mid.individual.net...
> Ducati, who sells 6K bikes a year in the USA and maybe 20K bikes a year
> worldwide, races and wins occasionally.
Sure, but that's not really saying anything either way re
the point I was trying to make, unless you think this is evidence
that Ducati races just for the sake of racing. I'd say Ducati
races because Ducati's presence on the track, and their
occasional victories, are contributing significantly to the
image that Ducati wants for their product line, and so is worth
the investment in terms of the effect on their bottom line.
Bob M.
Andrew
I'd say there are a couple of Italian outfits like Ducati, and Ferrari
where you cannot distinguish. It's one of those chicken/egg type
analogies.
How can you separate the racing when that is why the companies were formed?
That's a lot different from some of the other manufacturers.
Bob Myers
> I'd say there are a couple of Italian outfits like Ducati, and Ferrari
> where you cannot distinguish. It's one of those chicken/egg type
> analogies.
>
> How can you separate the racing when that is why the companies were
> formed?
It's just a little different perspective - I would say that there
are NO companies formed "for racing" - they're formed to
make money, and racing is a way (one possible way) to
achieve that goal. If Ducati (or Ferrari) ever gets to the point
of thinking that axing their racing programs would make for
a significant improvement in the bottom line, they'll do it
in a heartbeat.
And you certainly CAN "distinguish" here; the notion that
you can't just shows how successful these brands have been
in terms of marketing their racing. "Ferrari" equates to "race
car" in their customer's minds, and that sells cars. But it's
the sale of those cars (most of which will never get closer to
a track than the parking lot outside) that keeps the company
afloat - how profitable do you think Ferrari's racing program
is, if it's treated as an independent operation?
Bob M.
Jamin
> I like the touring bike, like the cruise control, XM radio, big ass
> windshield, luggage. Plus I wanna keep mama around to help support my bad
> habits, so I need the extra seating room! If all I had was a sportbike, I
> would be one of the pussies!
>
It's good to know what you like.
Before my first big sportbike trip I thought it was probably going to be
torturous, but it really was much easier than I thought, and a helluva lot
of fun.
> I have ridden a few different sportbikes and did enjoy them, but just not my
> preferred means of travel.
>
I've had touring and sportbikes, and for me riding a sportbike along twisty
roads is much more enjoyable, mile for mile, than cruising along less
demanding roads. It's kind of like when I go skiing I'd rather have a steep
face with lots of interesting terrain than a wide groomed run. Not that
one's inherently "better", to each his own, but I know what I like.
BryanUT
> On 1/5/07 2:51 PM, "Greg O" wrote:
>
> It's kind of like when I go skiing I'd rather have a steep
> face with lots of interesting terrain than a wide groomed run.
Yep Deer Valley (groomer heaven) vs. Alta (backcountry with lifts). I'll
take Alta.
When it comes to my choice of equipment, I am not a knuckle dragging
snowboarder and I am not an Alpine skier.
I telemark. Free your heel, free your mind.
Bryan
Jamin
> Yep Deer Valley (groomer heaven) vs. Alta (backcountry with lifts). I'll
> take Alta.
>
EXACTLY. Alta is one of the places I had in mind when I made that comment.
Awesome place. Definitely my favorite among the 5 or 6 places I've skied in
Utah. Did not like Deer Valley. Their runs are long, which is nice, but
painfully boring. Probably a great place for snowbunnies and beginners.
> When it comes to my choice of equipment, I am not a knuckle dragging
> snowboarder and I am not an Alpine skier.
>
> I telemark. Free your heel, free your mind.
>
I've never done it. Aside from it being more physically demanding than
normal alpine skiing, what with all the deep knee bends, what's so different
with telemarking? I've seen telemarkers doing the deep S turns down the
hill, and while it looks very graceful and appears to be quite a workout, it
didn't look too exciting. Am I missing something?
BryanUT
> I've seen telemarkers doing the deep S turns down the
> hill, and while it looks very graceful and appears to be quite a workout,
> it
> didn't look too exciting. Am I missing something?
>
Yep, you're missing something.
Long story made short: After many years of Alpine skiing and watching the
tele skiers I was bored. I even took the ski instructor school at Snowbird.
I tried teaching beginner kids.
So I rented tele skis. I sucked. But every time I went out I got better. I
was no longer bored. I bought better gear. And then I went past the
plateau I had reached on Alpine skiis. I was able to ski anywhere, anytime.
Ice, powder, moguls (i love moguls on tele skiis) trees, wide groomers,
steep, uphill... The whole mountain opened up.
Bryan
Saddlebag
I'll split the difference. Give me a big cozy mile cruncher with stereo
for the highway ride out where I'll gladly trade up for a 400 lb 100 hp
missle to do the corner carving. A number of ST bikes with an XM in the
tankbag is unquestionably the lowest cost and time intensive solution
that I've found.
Saddlebag
Bob Myers wrote:
> "BryanUT" <nest...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Et2dnZCXaq_9NwDY...@comcast.com...
> > Well I don't think H-D corporate gives a rat's ass about roadracing.
> > Although they seem to have a passing interest in all H-D drag racing and
> > flat track. I think they put on a good show, from what I see on the TV.
>
> Let's face it - NOBODY'S "corporate" actually gives a
> rat's ass about roadracing, or any other form of motor sport,
> for its own sake. A motorcycle manufacturer (or a motorcycle
> division of a larger corporation) races primarily because it's
> good marketing
Bob, you're one of the brightest fellers I know, but you haven't a clue
as to what makes an Italian's blood pump actuate.
Generally, I prefer people who can think with their head, but there is
an alluring quality about folks for whom life is a challenge to prove
themselves regardless of odds or opportunity lost.
Long live gearhead WOPs!
_Bob_Nixon
Bob, how many times do you have to hear it? This NG is NOT about
"economics or advertising" but "sport bikes"! IOW, WHO the hell give a
"RATS ASS" how much HD is making or how unscrupulous their advertising
scheme really is???
It kind of tells me what kind of person you are in spite of your BS
about not buying a Harley. IOW, life is about a lot more than
financial gain or economics.
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 55K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Bob Myers
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1168054966.0...@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>> Let's face it - NOBODY'S "corporate" actually gives a
>> rat's ass about roadracing, or any other form of motor sport,
>> for its own sake. A motorcycle manufacturer (or a motorcycle
>> division of a larger corporation) races primarily because it's
>> good marketing
>
> Bob, you're one of the brightest fellers I know, but you haven't a clue
> as to what makes an Italian's blood pump actuate.
I think mebbe we're in violent agreement here.
I'm sure there are INDIVIDUALS at Ducati and
Ferrari and so forth who eat, breathe, sleep, and bleed
racing. They'd have to, or they wouldn't be worth a
damn at what they were hired to do, which is to make
Ducati, etc., successful in those ventures. But the
COMPANY as a whole is a heartless, soulless
money-making machine, and I am just as sure that there
are beady-eyed accountant types who are working
there whose job is watching the bottom line. That's
just a fact of corporate life, and the #1 goal for ANY
company has to be making money - if it isn't, that
company isn't going to be around long enough to do
anything else.
These same companies also like to project the
IMAGE that the company itself cares about nothing
more than winning the next GP or whatever - because
that's what gets those Italian customers' (and those
elsewhere) blood boiling. Then they go out and buy
the product, and make those heartless financial types
happy (or at least as happy as they get....:-)).
Bob M.
Bob Myers
"_Bob_Nixon" <bi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ba7up219a665i4g8m...@4ax.com...
> Bob, how many times do you have to hear it? This NG is NOT about
> "economics or advertising" but "sport bikes"! IOW, WHO the hell give a
> "RATS ASS" how much HD is making or how unscrupulous their advertising
> scheme really is???
Not me - but you seem to forget that this whole silly thread started
out with statements about how much of HD's bottom line came
from non-bike merchandise, and what a durn shame that was vs.
those other companies who really "care about racing" or some
such. I'm simply pointing out that there's a fundamental error there
- you're confusing the cares of individuals with those of a
*corporation* - which, of course, is precisely in line with the
goals of those corporations, since it IS all about marketing the
product. That doesn't mean there aren't PEOPLE working there
who care about these things just as much as we do - just that we
shouldn't mistake that for the corporation putting anything but its
profits first (which, by the way, is precisely what a corporation AS
A WHOLE *should* be doing).
> It kind of tells me what kind of person you are in spite of your BS
> about not buying a Harley. IOW, life is about a lot more than
> financial gain or economics.
Of course it is - that's what I've been trying to say. I don't
personally care for the HD products, but that's just my own
tastes. If you or anyone else does, that's fine by me, and I
wouldn't try to pull off any nonsense like trying to show you
how "wrong" you are by looking at what percentage of a given
company's revenues comes from selling T-shirts. What the hell
difference does it make?
Hope that's clearer now.
Bob M.
Jamin
> Yep, you're missing something.
>
> Long story made short: After many years of Alpine skiing and watching the
> tele skiers I was bored. I even took the ski instructor school at Snowbird.
> I tried teaching beginner kids.
>
> So I rented tele skis. I sucked. But every time I went out I got better. I
> was no longer bored. I bought better gear. And then I went past the
> plateau I had reached on Alpine skiis. I was able to ski anywhere, anytime.
> Ice, powder, moguls (i love moguls on tele skiis) trees, wide groomers,
> steep, uphill... The whole mountain opened up.
Aside from the uphill part, I'll ski just about anywhere. Believe me that
I've had plenty of practice in crappy conditions, learning to ski in the
northern Cascades. The first time I skied with really good snow was at Alta,
I think, and it blew my mind. Here, the double diamond means "ice, rocks,
trees". There, it means "steeper powder". I was in heaven.
Saddlebag
Andrew wrote:
> http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=27865
>
> Any figures on Ducati? I'm wondering how many bikes they sell in the US.
>From Ducati:
Cupertino, CA (January 10, 2007) - 2006 was another record setting
year for sales of Ducati Motorcycles in North America. At year end,
over 8100 motorcycles had been retail registered, which translated to a
16% increase in sales over 2005. The sales growth was accompanied by
the launch of the Desmosedici RR street replica, the all new 1098
Superbike, the Hypermotard, and Troy Bayliss's championship winning
season in World Superbike.
The sales growth was led by the Canadian market, which was up over 50%
for Ducati and has managed to effectively triple Ducati sales since
2004. The hard work put in by the Ducati Canada staff has paid off with
exponential sales growth, and also with industry ranking: Ducati is now
one of the two best selling European Motorcycle brands in Canada.
Retail sales were led by the Monster family and the new 2007 Monster
695, which began delivery to customers in May and continues to be one
of the top selling models. The top selling Ducati in 2006 was the
Monster S2R 1000, in its debut year.
In 2006, Ducati MRP (Motorcycle Related Products) revenue was driven by
unique promotions such as the Ducati fashion night, where the 2007
apparel line was launched via a fashion night party at dealers. A
combination of unique and stylish products has led to an increase of
over 40% in the clothing business and 25% in accessories.
"Everyone at Ducati North America and the dealer network have been
working hard to achieve these fantastic results. Our success in 2006
shows that we are still building on the forward momentum which began in
2004." said Michael Lock, CEO of Ducati North America. "I am really
looking forward to 2007, and feel the February introduction of our
revolutionary new Superbike family and the summer arrivals or the
Hypermotard and Desmosedici RR will continue to fuel the fire."