JOHN BURNS FIRED FROM MOTORCYCLIST MAG!
Troy The Troll
<rema...@nym.alias.net> wrote in message
news:2002030103220...@nym.alias.net...
> John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in America,
> was fired Wednesday from Motorcyclist magazine after almost 9 years on
> staff. The firing was a culmination of tension between John and the
> fat
> prick editor, Mitch Boehm, and his geisha, Marc Cook, who used a
> pretext
> of 'unprofessional behavior' to get rid of John. John will soon be
> joining the staff of Motorcycle Online. Good news for John and MO,
> bad
> news for Mitchy and his brown-noses. Go John!!
Oh oh. And Burns was the only one who actually like the new Buell!! Maybe he
took bribes to write good things about it, since we all know the quality and
handling characteristics of a Buell.
GSJCB1
seen the segment where they'd been out at Las Vegas testing Honda's new 2002,
954RR sportbike.
John Burns was the "tester" for the magazine in this segment, and did all of
the commentary of the bike's performance on and off the racetrack. At the time
I was watching this bike review, I have to admit that I was a bit surprised to
see his extremely "casual" demeanor and somewhat lacking in technical value
type of reporting, of the bike and the track riding session in general.
With the huge audience that such a program would be reaching, and the
importance to the magazine ...... and especially to Honda ...... for the
testing to bring real value about the bike's potential desirability for riders
to consider in their next bike buying experience, it just seemed odd to have
the segment presented in a manner that had an almost "comical" theme to it.
Obviously (as a total outsider, other than being a subscriber) I haven't a
single clue on the inside goings-on that built up to John's dismissal from the
magazine, but in now recalling those personal impressions that I was left with
on Tuesday night, after watching this 954RR testing segment on the TV broadcast
..... it does make one wonder if this may have been the proverbial "straw that
broke the camel's back"?
Purely from a "looking into a crystal ball" kind of approach, one can
potentially see this scenario unfolding at the Motorcyclist's head offices on
Wednesday morning:
1. Honda Head Management ("Brass") sees Motorcyclist TV segment on Tuesday
night, covering the road/track testing of their pride-n-joy new 2002 model
bike, the 954RR.
2. Honda "Brass" is very unhappy with impression presented, and calls up
Editor of magazine on Wednesday morning.
3. Honda "Brass" reminds Editor of the $XXX,000 that the company spends every
year for advertising within the magazine, and the potential of that cash-cow
going south if something is not done to correct this recent situation
4. A "sacrificial lamb" is needed to appease the angry Honda "Brass", and
illustrate the magazine's recognition of the gravity of the situation.
5. John Burns is fired ....... end of story.
This may be all smoke ...... but with the two events happening so closely
together in time ...... it does leave one wondering????
Gary J.
Dan Carter
> John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in America,
> was fired Wednesday from Motorcyclist magazine after almost 9 years on
> staff. The firing was a culmination of tension between John and the
> fat prick editor, Mitch Boehm, and his geisha, Marc Cook...
Since this was posted via an anonymous remailer and, uh, seems to favor
John's view, I think we can assume it's from JPB himself.
MO readers had figured it out. First, news of the termination in AMA
Soup, then MO's mysterious pre-announcement about tomorrow's 9:00AM
announcement. Arrival of Burns is currently well ahead of "going all
NASCAR" among MO readers' guesses.
--
Dan Carter | d d a n | 1998 ST1100
San Luis Obispo, CA | a a @ t . e | 1997 VFR750F
| t n t t | 1990 VFR750R (RC30)
| a | 1988 Hawk GT
| | 1983 CX650 Turbo
notbob
GSJCB1 wrote:
> This may be all smoke ...... but with the two events happening so closely
> together in time ...... it does leave one wondering????
...only as to whether Motorcyclist has its reader's interests in mind or
is just a shill for the factories.
Andy Burnett
>John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in America,
>was fired Wednesday from Motorcyclist magazine after almost 9 years on
>staff.
Oddly, I've never cared that much for his writing or his views. Could be
addition by subtraction.
ab
Rich Lesperance
"GSJCB1" <gsj...@aol.comspamnot> wrote
>
> 3. Honda "Brass" reminds Editor of the $XXX,000 that the company spends
every
> year for advertising within the magazine, and the potential of that
cash-cow
> going south if something is not done to correct this recent situation
There is only one possible fly in the ointment - and I admit that I don't
know enough about the "biz" to say this authoritatively, but here goes:
Where else will Honda put their money? They spend money to get advertising
exposure, but there aren't a helluva lot of competing moto mags out there,
to which Honda could say "well, we'll send all of our advertising $$$ to
mags X,Y and Z instead."
Am I wrong? Overly simplistic / optimistic?
Rich L
Gerhard
spoken to most of the motojournalists out there & have watched several segments
being filmed for the aforementioned show. Hey folks, don't let the "free form"
style the show emits mask what actually occurs out there. There are writers,
editors, there are producers and there are multiple takes involved in this
process. Seen several segments aired where I'm standing in the background & the
time lag involved from the actually filming to the air date is several weeks. This
is Hollywood folks & I wouldn't seriously think they would air something they
didn't like - they would pull the plug on the segment entirely & tell the guy to
walk if it was due to something he said they didn't like. Think it's a little
deeper than that. I have talked to both Mitch & John while trying my best to keep
it safe & sane out there from my post on the pregrid & they are both very
personable & likeable individuals who are true enthusiasts. That doesn't mean they
see things the same way...
Gerhard
97' TL S = track toy
01' gixser 1K + everything else
Saddlebag
>addition by subtraction.
>
>ab
>
I thought he was a hoot. There is enough of the technical types and serious
motojournalists, give me some funny shit!
So long bitter little man, catch ya at MO.
Spectral Tarsier
>Oddly, I've never cared that much for his writing or his views. Could be
addition by subtraction.
If this news is true, I am not at all surprised. It seemed to me that Burns was
probably on his way out when he launched his "Bitter Little Man" column.
Burns was apparently on probation, being treated gently by Boehm, who was
giving him a chance to keep his job. But Burns' pessimistic viewpoint didn't
promote the sport of motorcycling, or inspire consumers to buy new bikes. I am
reminded of the similar Ulrich odyssey, from magazine to magazine...
Positive image is what sells bikes and keeps magazine writers employed.
motoboy
spectra\
>
> If this news is true, I am not at all surprised. It seemed to me that Burns
> was
> probably on his way out when he launched his "Bitter Little Man" column.
>
> Burns was apparently on probation, being treated gently by Boehm, who was
> giving him a chance to keep his job. But Burns' pessimistic viewpoint didn't
> promote the sport of motorcycling, or inspire consumers to buy new bikes. I am
> reminded of the similar Ulrich odyssey, from magazine to magazine...
>
> Positive image is what sells bikes and keeps magazine writers employed.
>
>
Yeah buddy, let's all smile and be cheerleaders for the major corporations.
Happy shiny people. Get in ze line, no singing in ze showers.
Motorcycle magazines need a different view to keep them interesting and
fresh. If all we ever get is 'rah rah so nice! so cool! so good!' then what
you have is Cycle World....
Burns has worked in this biz for 12 years promoting the sport and inspiring
riders through his innovative and entertaining style. The fact is, Mitch
Boehm was a world-class prick to John (and many others in the biz) and drove
him out after years of torment. Now John will be free to entertain those of
us who don't care for the mainstream corporate chant.
Now, go back and read your Cycle World.
Spectral Tarsier
>There is enough of the technical types and serious
>motojournalists, give me some funny shit!
So buy Mad Magazine, already!
There was a time when I wanted to know more about the staff of Motorcyclist, in
order to evaluate their technical qualifications for making recommendations
about various bikes.
Then they started writing far too much about their personal preferences and the
politics of working with each other. And those weird munchkinesque portraits
were too much!
I don't care about their preferences in music, pasta, or the length of their
inseams, I want a complete data panel!
To me, the ideal motojournalist would be a sort of Kevin
Cameron/Gordon Jennings who was also a class champion in some non-AMA racing
club.
Trųütmån
>If this news is true, I am not at all surprised. It seemed to me that
>Burns was probably on his way out when he launched his "Bitter Little
>Man" column.
Burns has proven himself to be an ass many times over. Good riddance.
--
___________________________________________
Michæl Trøütmån
http://www.troutman.org
Spectral Tarsier
>Now, go back and read your Cycle World.
I don't read Cycle World, not even when they offer free issues. Motorcyclist is
the only magazine I subcribe to, and I don't want to read about the staff, and
their
interpersonal conflicts, I want to read about motorcycles.
Albert Schilling
ass kissers left there now.
Albert
rema...@nym.alias.net wrote:
> John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in America,
> was fired Wednesday from Motorcyclist magazine after almost 9 years on
> staff. The firing was a culmination of tension between John and the
> fat
Sipde
so that aren't in anybody's pocket for their reviews. I feel they call it as
they see it and aren't trying to sell the product for whoever is paying the
bills.
"Spectral Tarsier" <spectra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020301123137...@mb-fh.aol.com...
Mike Guarino
>inseams, I want a complete data panel!
>To me, the ideal motojournalist would be a sort of Kevin
>Cameron/Gordon Jennings who was also a class champion in some non-AMA racing
>club.
Bravo!!!
Mike Guarino
(Hndamike, posting from work)
Remove nospam to E-mail
Mike Guarino
>so that aren't in anybody's pocket for their reviews. I feel they call it as
>they see it and aren't trying to sell the product for whoever is paying the
>bills.
MCN and Cycle World are all I still get,and if not for Kevin Cameron it
wouldn't even be CW
motoboy
mik?@tr??tm?n.org doth spewed forth on 3/1/02 9:14 AM:
> Burns has proven himself to be an ass many times over. Good riddance.
Well that just shows how much you know about the man, asshole.
Jay
wrote:
>That's exactly why I read Motorcycle Consumer News. They have no advertising
>so that aren't in anybody's pocket for their reviews. I feel they call it as
>they see it and aren't trying to sell the product for whoever is paying the
>bills.
ditto. i read mcn for the exact same reason.
i read motorcyclist, cycleworld and sportrider for *entertainment* and
for some of the thoughtful information gleaned from a few of the
monthly articles. if i want *information* about motorcycles (ie, an
objective model review) i will look to mcn and, to a somewhat lesser
extent, roadracing world to provide it.
the loss of john burns will certainly make motorcyclist much less of
an entertaining read for me- the rag seems hardly worth the
subscription price without him. and i'm sure as hell NOT going to pay
motorcycle online a subscription fee until the quality and quantity of
their product improves. hopefully, mr. burns can help them out in
that department.
jay
san francisco
Saddlebag
>From: "Sipde" si...@easyriders.com
>Date: 3/1/2002 3:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <u7vqi3l...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>That's exactly why I read Motorcycle Consumer News. They have no advertising
>so that aren't in anybody's pocket for their reviews. I feel they call it as
>they see it and aren't trying to sell the product for whoever is paying the
>bills.
I agree, and on top of that, those guys tend to have an approach to bikes more
like my own than the racer boy mags do. I like Rider too for good ideas for
trips, but their bike reviews leave something to be desired.
Nevertheless, I like a little attitude like Burnsy and the Brits bring to the
table. I doubt that I'll be renewing my Motorcyclist subscription.
Saddlebag
uptight peter puffin heros.
Michael Fell
wrote:
Go riddance to Burns. Sure he liked the new Buell but he thrashed the
old Buells to death then gave them bad reviews. The guy is a
knucklehead.:-)
Mike 2000 Buell M2 Cyclone
There are two roads in life,
Take the twisty one.
Troy The Troll
he
> >took bribes to write good things about it, since we all know the quality
and
> >handling characteristics of a Buell.
>
> Go riddance to Burns. Sure he liked the new Buell but he thrashed the
> old Buells to death then gave them bad reviews. The guy is a
> knucklehead.:-)
>
>
>
> Mike 2000 Buell M2 Cyclone
MIKE! Long time no see!
In honor of Johns honest review of the Buells of the past, I shall now have
to find one to test ride just to verify his undoubtedly fair and honest
opinion.
Except the Firebolt of course, he musta REALLY been boozed up when he wrote
that particular article.
Michael Fell
wrote:
>> >Oh oh. And Burns was the only one who actually like the new Buell!! Maybe
>he
>> >took bribes to write good things about it, since we all know the quality
>and
>> >handling characteristics of a Buell.
>>
>> Go riddance to Burns. Sure he liked the new Buell but he thrashed the
>> old Buells to death then gave them bad reviews. The guy is a
>> knucklehead.:-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike 2000 Buell M2 Cyclone
>
>
>MIKE! Long time no see!
>
>In honor of Johns honest review of the Buells of the past, I shall now have
>to find one to test ride just to verify his undoubtedly fair and honest
>opinion.
He should add oil to the Buells once in awhile since he likes to
thrash them to death. He does not have a clue on how to maintain a
Buell. Buells need special care and such since they rate high on the
fun factor that is no big deal.
>
>Except the Firebolt of course, he musta REALLY been boozed up when he wrote
>that particular article.
We will see the tune you are singing when the water cooled Buells
arrive. Buell and America will show the world how to make a
sportbike.:-)
Mike 2000 Buell M2 Cyclone
There are two roads in life,
Take the twisty one.
Arlon James
"Dan Carter" <n...@spam.please> wrote in message
news:rrtt7ukadmj48lilk...@4ax.com...
> rema...@nym.alias.net wrote:
>
> Since this was posted via an anonymous remailer and, uh, seems to favor
> John's view, I think we can assume it's from JPB himself.
>
Why would you leap to this conclusion on such flimsy evidence? You go ahead
and assume all you want. Leave "we" out of it. "We" prefer a fact or two.
Troy The Troll
> We will see the tune you are singing when the water cooled Buells
> arrive. Buell and America will show the world how to make a
> sportbike.:-)
>
A tune being sung for a decade now by the faithful. Same tune as sung of the
VR1000.....and what happened to them? Oh yeah! They failed....and then QUIT!
At least they knew when to cut their losses and run.
Michael Fell
wrote:
>
The VR 1000 was a Harley. Buell had no involvement in that. We will
see what happens when Buell has the opportunity.
Peter Roehling
>
> > Since this was posted via an anonymous remailer and, uh, seems to favor
> > John's view, I think we can assume it's from JPB himself.
> >
>
> Why would you leap to this conclusion on such flimsy evidence? You go ahead
> and assume all you want. Leave "we" out of it. "We" prefer a fact or two.
Uh, despite the flimsy evidence, "we" also believe that the Japanese
attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7th. (And that was an editorial "we",
which doesn't necessarily include "you".)
P.
Mike
miss him.
>
>I thought he was a hoot. There is enough of the technical types and serious
>motojournalists, give me some funny shit!
>So long bitter little man, catch ya at MO.
>
Mike
1986 Buick Turbo-T
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo - Kid Hauler
2001 Kawasaki ZRX 1200R
http://www.iland.net/~kpompe/main.html
James Clark
Sipde wrote:
> That's exactly why I read Motorcycle Consumer News. They have no advertising
> so that aren't in anybody's pocket for their reviews.
So how much do they pay for their test bikes and do they dispose
of them on Ebay?
> I feel they call it as
> they see it and aren't trying to sell the product for whoever is paying the
> bills.
>
Who do they depend on to tell them when they are in need of corrective
lenses?
ninja900
news:3C824714...@mouse-potato.com...
So which manufacturer of m/c goods do you work for? Or did MCN slam your
favorite product/bike? By all means, we should turn our backs on unbiased
opinions!!
They get their bikes the same way other mags do - from the manufacturers.
They realize that MCN will give unbiased opinions about their rides and want
to look like they have nothing to hide! I applaud them for their
participation in an ad-free, subscription-salaried, publication.
Where do you suppose other magazines dispose of their test bikes? They all
do it the same way - return 'em to the manufacturer per their agreement when
they take the bike for testing.
ninja900
Kaybearjr
>Where do you suppose other magazines dispose of their test bikes? They all do
it the same way - return 'em to the manufacturer per their agreement when
they take the bike for testing.
A product support guy at American Honda in Gardena told me that bikes used for
product testing were sent to the crusher to keep them from being offered to the
public...
He told me that he started up a CBX, kicked it into gear, and launched it, full
throttle, into the crusher...
# * 0 * # <---- grumpy marsupial emoticon
^
James Clark
ninja900 wrote:
>
> So which manufacturer of m/c goods do you work for? Or did MCN slam your
> favorite product/bike? By all means, we should turn our backs on unbiased
> opinions!!
>
I wouldn't know whether or not they've trashed my bike and I really
couldn't
give a shit. I bought my bike to please myself, not someone else.
But who said you are getting unbiased opinions? All I'm seeing is a
claim
that they don't have the guts to defend their opinions to advertisers.
It makes one wonder if they have the balls to criticize the steed of
choice
of their targeted audience.
>
> They get their bikes the same way other mags do - from the manufacturers.
> They realize that MCN will give unbiased opinions about their rides and want
> to look like they have nothing to hide! I applaud them for their
> participation in an ad-free, subscription-salaried, publication.
So their supply of test bikes is dependent upon the goodwill of the
manufacturers?
Wouldn't want to do anything to threaten that goodwill now, would we?
If a manufacturer doesn't doesn't like a review, why is it believable
that they would do something highly visible, like pull advertising,
but they wouldn't do something "under the radar" like restricting
access to test bikes?
>
>
> Where do you suppose other magazines dispose of their test bikes? They all
> do it the same way - return 'em to the manufacturer per their agreement when
> they take the bike for testing.
>
But MCN brags about being the "Consumer Reports" of motorcycle
magazines.
(As if that's something to boast about.)
Doesn't CR go out and purchase the products that they test, and then
sell them?
Of course, if they took that approach they would go broke in nothing
flat
unless they restricted their testing to high end Harleys.
Jay
very nice troll. i'll give it a 8.5 out of 10.
jay
san francisco
James Clark
Jay wrote:
>
> very nice troll. i'll give it a 8.5 out of 10.
>
What do I win?
If lack of financial incentive is your criteria,
do you go to the pope for an unbiased opinion
WRT abortion?
Jay
<clark35.at.a...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>
>Jay wrote:
>
>>
>> very nice troll. i'll give it a 8.5 out of 10.
>>
>
>What do I win?
a new rod and reel. a perfect 10 nets (sorry) you a new boat.
jay
san francisco
carlos seramos
> <rema...@nym.alias.net> wrote in message
> news:2002030103220...@nym.alias.net...
> > John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in America,
> > was fired Wednesday from Motorcyclist magazine after almost 9 years on
> > staff. The firing was a culmination of tension between John and the
> > fat
> > prick editor, Mitch Boehm, and his geisha, Marc Cook, who used a
> > pretext
> > of 'unprofessional behavior' to get rid of John. John will soon be
> > joining the staff of Motorcycle Online. Good news for John and MO,
> > bad
> > news for Mitchy and his brown-noses. Go John!!
>
Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
Motorcylist has a Burns editorial in it.
jenner
news:efa53c9b.02031...@posting.google.com:
Would there be any chance that there is something called
"lead time", where an article is submitted long before it
is published?
--
-- jenner
Charles
Now you're just talking crazy talk!
Lead times? what nonsense. the moment they type, the words appear in
print! and in my mailbox!
:P
Charles
jenner wrote:
>>>>John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in
>>Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
Peter Roehling
>
> Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
> Motorcylist has a Burns editorial in it.
There is a ninety day lag between writing a piece and the time it sees
print.
P.
Demetrios of Hungarea, APA
wrote:
>Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
>Motorcylist has a Burns editorial in it.
Yeah and it typically takes three months for wanky pubs like
Motorcyclist to make it from the printers to your mailbox. More spendy
mags with real circulations have fancy satellite printing delivered to
your local market.
Johnny is writing for motorcycle.com... supposedly. If you goto their
site he's making fun of Mitch Boehm and sucking cock for his new
employers by asking the readers to pony up the $12 for an online
subscription. He also claims to be making guest appearances in Cycle
World from time to time.
No big loss. His wannabe bad boy writings were growing more tiresome
and less inventive with each succeedingly dour column. After crashing
many a testbike it appears as though he's finally managed to ground
his career.
Reed Kennedy
> jenner wrote:
>
>>>>>John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in
>>>Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
>
>
>> Would there be any chance that there is something called
>> "lead time", where an article is submitted long before it
>> is published?
>
> Dang it Jenner,
>
> Now you're just talking crazy talk!
>
> Lead times? what nonsense. the moment they type, the words appear in
> print! and in my mailbox!
I know! So inconvenient when I'm reading faster than they type.
I'm still not sure how they know how many pages to put in.
(Personally, I found out from a MO email, I signed up for their spam list.)
Reed.
Peckham
"carlos seramos" <potte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:efa53c9b.02031...@posting.google.com...
> Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
> Motorcylist has a Burns editorial in it.
So did Motorcycle Online. Check out:
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcracing/srx.motml
Clint
news:Xns91D6A7968BD39...@209.155.56.100...
> Charles <csta...@excite.com> wrote in news:3C97AC81...@excite.com:
>
> > jenner wrote:
> >
> >>>>>John Burns, noted as one of the best motojournalists in
> >>>Where did you get this information? The most recent issue of
> >
> >
> >> Would there be any chance that there is something called
> >> "lead time", where an article is submitted long before it
> >> is published?
> >
> > Dang it Jenner,
> >
> > Now you're just talking crazy talk!
> >
> > Lead times? what nonsense. the moment they type, the words appear in
> > print! and in my mailbox!
>
> I know! So inconvenient when I'm reading faster than they type.
>
> I'm still not sure how they know how many pages to put in.
Oh, that's an easy one. As many as they can sell!
Reed Kennedy
news:1dWl8.74879$702.19830@sccrnsc02:
Then why do my copies have more than 3 pages?
Reed.