Ducati 900 SS Vs. BMW R1100S
Joe
Honda CBR600 F4). Has anyone had direct experience with the BMW R1100S or
know where I might get a copy of conusmer report comparing the Ducati and
BMW?
I am more familiar with the Ducati 900 SS but still, would like to get some
advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
that though, I do not want to give up the "sports" feel and performance I
have grown accustomed too from the F4.
How are the Ducati SS line as far as reliability? I have heard that Ducati
has really tried in 2000 and 2001 to improve this area considerably (one
thing we can thank the japs for) especially when it comes to service
intervals. Is there truth to this?
Any thougts or recomendations would be appreciated.
Drive safe.
Joe
Bob Hancock
I have an R11S and an ST4....not the exact comparison you want but maybe
close enough. Of these two very similar bikes, the BMW has a soft ride all
day feel to it. The telelever front is truly amazing especially when you're
tired and still putting on the miles. Like the ABS, it will bail you out
when you are tired and do something stupid. The ST4 has more character but
has more of an edge requiring you to be fresh to use it. I've come to the
conclusion that the R11S is my touring bike and I plan on selling the ST4
and getting a 996 for my sport bike. Having never ridden the Honda, but
thinking of it as a sport bike, I would advise the BMW if you want a touring
bike that can scratch with the best of them. Mine has ABS, heated grips,
and a plug for electric clothing. I have the very capable BMW luggage. I
would imagine that the 900SS is closer to a sport bike than the Beemer, so
if you get the Duc, I think you'll make the mistake I did and have two bikes
too similar in mission to please.
All this rattle FWIW,
Bob
'99R1100S
'00ST4
Joe <jmar...@stargate.net> wrote in message
news:t61q2va...@corp.supernews.com...
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
> How are the Ducati SS line as far as reliability?
Excellent, as are all current Ducatis.
> I have heard that Ducati
> has really tried in 2000 and 2001 to improve this area considerably (one
> thing we can thank the japs for)
AFAIK, reliability has been very high since well before the company
was sold in 1997 or so.
> especially when it comes to service
> intervals. Is there truth to this?
Service intervals are the same as always; oil change, fasteners,
etc. with belt tension and valve clearance check at 6k miles, and
more fluids and belt replacement on top of a regular 6k at 12k
miles. There are reputed to be ways around the valve clearance
check frequency with aftermarket collets for the closing shims; I
have no direct personal experience there.
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Harry K Smith
:
: I am more familiar with the Ducati 900 SS but still, would like to get some
: advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
: looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
: take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
: that though, I do not want to give up the "sports" feel and performance I
: have grown accustomed too from the F4.
I've always heard it that the SS's are some of the more uncomfortable
sport bikes. Thus, it probably wouldn't pass that 500-600 mile test if
the F4 won't. Maybe a S2 or S4 would be a better choice.
Harry
'83 Suzuki GR650 Tempter
'91 Suzuki VX800
TexMoto
> advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
After about 400 miles on the Ducati, you will definitely have to take Monday off. 500
miles is about the longest I've done on it and enjoyed every minute of it except the
last 50 miles or so.
> How are the Ducati SS line as far as reliability? I have heard that Ducati
> has really tried in 2000 and 2001 to improve this area considerably (one
> thing we can thank the japs for) especially when it comes to service
> intervals. Is there truth to this?
I've got about 40k miles on my '95 Duc 900 SS without a single significant problem.
Yes, the slave clutch cylinder leaks and the rear brake made noise since day one, but
other than that it has been very reliable.
The ST2 and ST4 are far more comfortable. I test rode a '98 (I think) ST2 and loved
the comfort and handling. The ST4, of course, is a lot faster than both the ST2 and
900 SS.
The Ducatis are great bikes. I highly recommend them.
--
Miguel F. Asensio, Editor
TEXMOTO, Texas Motorcycling Magazine
P.O. Box 90374
Austin, Tx. 78709
phone 512.858.2313
http://www.texmoto.com
mailto:mig...@texmoto.com
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
>> I am more familiar with the Ducati 900 SS but still, would like to get some
>> advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
>> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
>> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
> After about 400 miles on the Ducati, you will definitely have to take Monday off.
While sporting Ducatis are clearly not for everyone who wants to do
distance, I know a guy who toured exensively on a *916* (and I mean
serious, Goldwing-style touring, not 150 mile days), and there's a
super multiple Iron Butt Rally guy who has used the same ST2 for
well over a year (that would mean about 80k grueling miles so far, I
believe).
Some people will NEVER fit on certain bikes, and sport Ducatis tend
to be more difficult to ride distances than many bikes. That said,
riding position and how you tense and relax certain groups of
muscles makes a 1000% difference in your long-term comfort. I've
been quite comfortable for well over an hour on a 996 (the longest I
ever got to ride it), where before thinking long and hard about my
body positioning and so on I could barely manage 15 minutes.
> 500
> miles is about the longest I've done on it and enjoyed every minute of it except the
> last 50 miles or so.
Which Ducati?
>> How are the Ducati SS line as far as reliability? I have heard that Ducati
>> has really tried in 2000 and 2001 to improve this area considerably (one
>> thing we can thank the japs for) especially when it comes to service
>> intervals. Is there truth to this?
> I've got about 40k miles on my '95 Duc 900 SS without a single significant problem.
> Yes, the slave clutch cylinder leaks and the rear brake made noise since day one, but
> other than that it has been very reliable.
The rear calipers are mounted by pinned plate to the swingarm, and
the rear brakes are prone to "sing". Ducati has a reaction rod
attachment that will cure that problem and improve handling under
hard braking a bit, but the simple cure is to use DunloPad brake
pads in the rear (GG is fine). The noise goes away, every time.
> The ST2 and ST4 are far more comfortable.
I guess it depend on who you are. I am fairly small, and the "lets
you slide around a lot for longer trips" seat of the ST bikes made
me tense many more muscles in my shoulders and upper legs, trying to
hold myself in place. I was more comfortable on the Supersport
models over distances. I think I would have to have a custom Corbin
made to make me comfortable for distances on the ST series; I need
to be in place, but closer to the tank than the stock Corbin seat
for those bikes puts you.
> I test rode a '98 (I think) ST2 and loved
> the comfort and handling. The ST4, of course, is a lot faster than both the ST2 and
> 900 SS.
However, the ST4 makes its power higher up the rev range. You can
mod an ST2 relatively easily to get it to make chest-thumping torque
and plenty of power. I feel that's the way to go unless you're a
"keep it on the boil" redline hooligan at heart. I;{>
> The Ducatis are great bikes. I highly recommend them.
On that we are in complete and full agreement. I;{>
jakem...@my-deja.com
"Joe" <jmar...@stargate.net> wrote:
> I am looking at moving to the twins as a second bike (currently have
a 2000
> Honda CBR600 F4). Has anyone had direct experience with the BMW
R1100S or
> know where I might get a copy of conusmer report comparing the Ducati
and
> BMW?
I had a R1100S for a bit over a year. I loved it to death - very
easy to ride what with a broad torque curve and excellent suspension.
It doesn't have enough power to wheelie in first by whacking open the
throttle, you have to whack it closed first. I never felt the bike was
lacking power; but it's no four-cylinder literbike.
The gas tank is a little small, and there is no underseat storage.
The passenger footpegs can get in the way of your heels if you have
big feet - I just took them off most of the time; it takes all of one
minute to undo two allen-head screws for each side. My passengers
complained about the "grab rail" or lack thereof - it is recessed
under the seat and apparently not very good.
It does have a very nice toolkit, complete with a tire repair kit.
I did not have ABS - the brakes on the bike were nothing short of
phenomenal anyway. You will find yourself doing accidental stoppies.
I think it is one of the prettiest bikes ever made; I very nearly
bought another one, only going with the R1150GS at the last minute. If
you can stomach the price tag, it's a great machine.
--
Jake McGuire
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
FnGG
Aprilia Futura (when it arives).
I've done many miles/day on several 900SS's, but it's not for everyone. I'm 6'
155lbs.
Jeff
"Bob Hancock" <rjha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Joe,
> I have an R11S and an ST4....not the exact comparison you want but maybe
> close enough. Of these two very similar bikes, the BMW has a soft ride
all
> day feel to it. The telelever front is truly amazing especially when
you're
> tired and still putting on the miles. Like the ABS, it will bail you out
> when you are tired and do something stupid. The ST4 has more character
but
> has more of an edge requiring you to be fresh to use it. I've come to the
> conclusion that the R11S is my touring bike and I plan on selling the ST4
> and getting a 996 for my sport bike. Having never ridden the Honda, but
> thinking of it as a sport bike, I would advise the BMW if you want a
touring
> bike that can scratch with the best of them. Mine has ABS, heated grips,
> and a plug for electric clothing. I have the very capable BMW luggage. I
> would imagine that the 900SS is closer to a sport bike than the Beemer, so
> if you get the Duc, I think you'll make the mistake I did and have two
bikes
> too similar in mission to please.
> All this rattle FWIW,
I'd have to second everything Bob has said here. I own a '99 R11S and have
told nearly everyone who is willing to listen that I can't think of another
bike I'd rather own at this stage of my life. It shreds, it tours, it goes
to the office, to the grocery store, it does it all. It doesn't do any of
those things as well as bikes dedicated specifically to each of those tasks,
but it does them all very, very well. It's truly a multi-purpose bike. The
suspension is amazing as well as revolutionary, and along with the brakes
(mine has ABS) will keep you out of serious trouble, even when you do
something totally stupid, as I have done on occasion. And the ride and
comfort are quite superior to the Duck SS. I bought a 996S last year and
kept it briefly. It was the best track bike money can buy. It sucked
horribly for riding to the office. It hated being ridden in town or in
traffic. I loved it dearly, but couldn't justify keeping it only for the
occasional track day, so I sold it to a man who converted it into a 996SPS.
Before I bought the 996, I sat on some 900SSs and felt the riding position
was similar to that of the 996, and quite different (read: more extreme
sport bike) than my BMW. I love the Ducks, but not enought to punish myself
while riding them long distances. The R11S rocks.
Jeff
Jeff
"FnGG" <fn...@aol.com> wrote in message
> Depending on the money you wanna spend, I gotta suggest the Guzzi V11S
You can buy my friend's '00 V11S, if he still has it. Had only about 800
miles on it, last I checked. Great looking bike with some really quirky
handling and idiosyncracies.
Jeff
randy hesser
SS. The ST2 is really sweet, but the price as new is a joke. The ST4 only
gives you higher revs (that's where its extra hp comes from). I would buy
the ST2 used if the maintenance logs were kept up to date and I chatted with
the dealer that serviced it. The ST2 has the chassis for the "sports" feel
and performance, but performance here is corner speed, not mondo drive.
"Harry K Smith" <hk...@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote in message
news:93rf74$bj0$1...@nntp.msstate.edu...
Tim & Kathy Morrow
>
> You'll need some chiro attention after a couple of 500 mile days on the Duc
> SS. The ST2 is really sweet, but the price as new is a joke. The ST4 only
> gives you higher revs (that's where its extra hp comes from). I would buy
> the ST2 used if the maintenance logs were kept up to date and I chatted with
> the dealer that serviced it. The ST2 has the chassis for the "sports" feel
> and performance, but performance here is corner speed, not mondo drive.
The previous generation SS's (up to '98) were less radical in seating
position (clip-on height) than the current SS models. In fact, having
owned several pre-98 SS and Superbikes and ridden the ST2/ST4; I'd say
that my personal impression of the comfort ranking is as follows (in
descending order of comfort):
All Monster models
Pre-'98 SS models/ST2/ST4
Current SS models/all 851/888 models
All 748/916/996 models
I rode a documented Iron Butt Saddlesore 1000 several years back on my
'92 851, while a couple of buddies rode with me on a Monster 900 and a
750SS that had been converted to Monster (naked roadster/Suzuki SV650)
ergos. We rode 1,051 miles in 19 hours. None of us were spring chickens
at the time (two of us 40+ years, and one late 30's) and none of us had
more than mild soreness the next day.
Tim Morrow
Some Guy on a Bike
(The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>> AFAIK, reliability has been very high since well before the company
>> was sold in 1997 or so.
> Hmmmm... post-96 I'd certainly agree, but I know some people who had
> horrendous experiences with pre-97 bikes.
And unfortunately, Cagiva kept EVERYTHING when they divested. So I
can't even get recall notices and so forth for older bikes. No
parts fiche, nothing. Almost all the part numbers remained the
same, and if you have part numbers, you can order from Ducati...
But if you don't have fiche, even THEY can't help you. B/
Steve Makohin
The two bikes are of a different character. To bring it down to a
one-liner, the Ducati is a great track bike, whereas the BMW R1100S is a
great sports-touring bike. A friend of mine had both, a new Ducati and new
R1100S for several months, and he ended up selling the Ducati because,
although it excelled on the track, he didn't spend much time on the track.
So, if you must choose between the two, take the Duc if you want a nimble,
responsive, and prestigious track bike that is street legal. If you want a
bike that you can ride for 8 hours (as I have) and still feel good about
it, as well and being a passable sports bike, grab the R1100S.
I have a 2000 R1100S, and here are my two cents:
o Excellent fit and finish
o Looks like nothing else (pure eye candy)
o Tons of torque from as low as 2500 RPM
o Tons of usable power. My nephew, who does a lot of dirt
riding and is much more skilled than I, raised the front
wheel at around 40 mph when he borrowed my R1100S and I was
beside him on his bike.
o Telelever front suspension made me quickly realize how much
telescopic forks suck.
o Optional ABS is outstanding (I needed it only once, and am
glad it was there! Worth every cent that first time :-) )
o Although it has sports bikes looks, it's comfortable for
long hauls (I'm 6'2", 200 lbs)
Down side:
o Some people complain about the buzziness of the engine. Mine
mellowed right out after 1500 km.
o Some people complain about the surging of the EFI. My bike
has a mild case of the surgies. I'm curing it as we speak with
a Vauderlinde exhaust and EFI chip.
o The R1100S on the _track_ is not a contender for "real" sports
bikes like a GSX-R750. It's a little of the heavy side, and
the wide boxer engine doesn't let you lean the bike as far in
a turn as you can with a Gixer, or most other sports bikes.
That said, I read an article in a motorcycle magazine where two riders, a
more skilled one on a GSX-R750 and a less skilled one on an R1100S, did
some aggressive road riding (I'll shy away from the word "racing" because
that would be illegal on public roads), and the reviewer said that the
Gixer could not shake the big Bavarian (with optional saddle bags, no
less) from his mirrors. I interpret this as a really capable, world class
sports bike (the GSX-R750) being closely matched with the R1100S in daily,
real-life, on-the-street riding in terms of performance. Realize that the
R1100S has a 350cc advantage, so what it did not have in terms of
lightness and agility, it made up for in torque and horsepower. On the
track, however, where small differences make a big difference between
first place and second, the R1100S will be bested by many sports bikes.
Comparing the Ducati to the BMW R1100S is like comparing a Ferrari to a
BMW M3. There Ferrari will own the track. Even so, the BMW is a sporty,
great looking vehicle that's easy to enjoy, plus you can also load it up
and go for a long haul, and still feel good at the end of it. In my mind,
the BMW is an outstanding, all-around, daily-use vehicle that can be
driven aggressively, but it's not the king of the track (although it will
do pretty well).
Feel free to email me at wate...@interlog.com if you have any questions
about the R1100S.
-Steve Makohin | Remove "ANTISPAM" from email
| address before replying.
Andy Burnett
<3a611ba8...@196.1.1.1>:
>On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:41:24 -0500, "Joe" <jmar...@stargate.net>
>wrote:
>
>> How are the Ducati SS line as far as reliability?
>
>Excellent, as are all current Ducatis.
>
>> I have heard that Ducati
>> has really tried in 2000 and 2001 to improve this area considerably (one
>> thing we can thank the japs for)
>
>AFAIK, reliability has been very high since well before the company
>was sold in 1997 or so.
You've got to be kidding. Four valve bikes made since '96 have had
problems with the chrome flaking off of rockers, oil galley plugs back out
and machine themselves away, they had a batch of bad cam belts which broke
before the recommended service level and electrical problems are *still*
common.
The two valve bikes have been free of the rocker problem and have
fewer moving parts to break in general, but they find their way to
the shop from time to time too. They're fun bikes, but if you think you're
in for a trouble free ownership experience, you'll be disappointed.
ab
Rick Damiani
>On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:00:16 GMT, TexMoto <mig...@texmoto.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> I am more familiar with the Ducati 900 SS but still, would like to get some
>>> advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
>>> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
>>> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
>
>> After about 400 miles on the Ducati, you will definitely have to take Monday off.
>
>While sporting Ducatis are clearly not for everyone who wants to do
>distance, I know a guy who toured exensively on a *916* (and I mean
>serious, Goldwing-style touring, not 150 mile days), and there's a
>super multiple Iron Butt Rally guy who has used the same ST2 for
>well over a year (that would mean about 80k grueling miles so far, I
>believe).
I saw an ST2 all decked out as a long-distance mount at the cycle
world show in Long Beach. It looked pretty rough, especially
considering that it had fewer miles on it than my Sprint. I'm not sure
what point they were trying to make, but I didn't find it's 40K miles
to be all that impressive.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Rick Damiani
>On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:50:06 +0000, chateau...@btinternet.com
>(The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>
>>> AFAIK, reliability has been very high since well before the company
>>> was sold in 1997 or so.
>
>> Hmmmm... post-96 I'd certainly agree, but I know some people who had
>> horrendous experiences with pre-97 bikes.
>
>And unfortunately, Cagiva kept EVERYTHING when they divested. So I
>can't even get recall notices and so forth for older bikes. No
>parts fiche, nothing. Almost all the part numbers remained the
>same, and if you have part numbers, you can order from Ducati...
>But if you don't have fiche, even THEY can't help you. B/
My brother was drooling over a used '95 900SS today when we were
getting him some gear [1]. Are you saying that, if he should purchase
the bike, there exists a very real possibility that any parts he may
need might exist, and be in stock, but not be locatable because there
is no way to cross-reference the part number on the bin to a
particular part on the motorcycle? That is exceptionally bizarre -
what options do owners of older Ducatis have?
[1] He got a Joe Rocket Ballistic 3.0 jacket and pants - it looks like
some very nice stuff for a two-piece textile suit.
Some Guy on a Bike
Burnett) wrote:
>> AFAIK, reliability has been very high since well before the company
>> was sold in 1997 or so.
> You've got to be kidding.
Nope, not really.
> Four valve bikes made since '96 have had
> problems with the chrome flaking off of rockers,
This is a documented problem, and one that has been handled under
warranty.
> oil galley plugs back out
Never seen nor heard of this, and there isn't even a TSB for it.
> they had a batch of bad cam belts which broke
> before the recommended service level
Haven't seen or heard of this, either. I imagine they would happily
cover it under warranty.
> and electrical problems are *still* common.
I've seen one bike with electrical problems in the past year, out of
probably 100-150 that I've worked on or sold (or both). I think
that's a pretty good record.
Compare this record with, say, Suzuki, which typically recalls 2-3
different models a year for fuel-related problems that can cause
fires, and 1-2 models a year for serious engine repairs. I'd have
to call Ducati VERY reliable, compared to some industry standards
out there.
> The two valve bikes have been free of the rocker problem and have
> fewer moving parts to break in general, but they find their way to
> the shop from time to time too.
I never said they never needed repair. I said they were extremely
reliable compared to today's bikes in general, and I stand by it.
Are they the most reliable? No. Are you likely to buy one and have
it be trouble-free for many years if you follow the recommended
service interval? You betcha.
> They're fun bikes, but if you think you're
> in for a trouble free ownership experience, you'll be disappointed.
Nothing you stated above shows any more propensity for "trouble"
than is typical of the industry, and certainly less than many
manufacturers. Suzuki? Buell? Even the highly-touted Triumph has
had more problems than Ducati.
Some Guy on a Bike
<ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I saw an ST2 all decked out as a long-distance mount at the cycle
> world show in Long Beach. It looked pretty rough, especially
> considering that it had fewer miles on it than my Sprint. I'm not sure
> what point they were trying to make, but I didn't find it's 40K miles
> to be all that impressive.
Ask Onethumb. That 40k miles was probably covered in a very short
period of time, with little or no ability to stop for maintenance
during the 2-4k mile stretches. I imagine they left it looking sort
of rough to help show that; a 40k mile bike that is clean as a
whistle is not that exceptional. Doing back-to-back-to-back
distance rallies is exceptionally hard on the hardware.
Some Guy on a Bike
<ri...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> And unfortunately, Cagiva kept EVERYTHING when they divested. So I
>> can't even get recall notices and so forth for older bikes. No
>> parts fiche, nothing. Almost all the part numbers remained the
>> same, and if you have part numbers, you can order from Ducati...
>> But if you don't have fiche, even THEY can't help you. B/
> My brother was drooling over a used '95 900SS today when we were
> getting him some gear [1]. Are you saying that, if he should purchase
> the bike, there exists a very real possibility that any parts he may
> need might exist, and be in stock, but not be locatable because there
> is no way to cross-reference the part number on the bin to a
> particular part on the motorcycle?
Ducati corporate doesn't have that ability. Any Ducai dealer in
business since before the buyout will certainly have the fiche, and
many who came after will have it, too. I even have some fiche from
that time period. Cagiva Elefant, anyone?
You could try http://www.motorcyclememories.com or eBay and buy
yourself a copy of the fiche. Tehn you'll never have to worry about
it.
> That is exceptionally bizarre -
> what options do owners of older Ducatis have?
Syd's in Ft. Lauderdale, FL has all the fiche going back to about
when Ducati first MADE fiche. They can sell you anything you need,
although they (of course) won't give out part numbers. However, the
oil filters and belts should be the same, which is probably
primarily what he'll be worried about. Go to your local dealer and
see if they have the fiche. If you ask real nice with the right
people, they might even let you duplicate it.
> He got a Joe Rocket Ballistic 3.0 jacket and pants - it looks like
> some very nice stuff for a two-piece textile suit.
For the price, I would have to agree. The quality and feature are
light-years better than the 2.0 stuff.
Tim & Kathy Morrow
>
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:44:39 GMT, abur...@NOhomeSPAM.com (Andy
> Burnett) wrote:
> > They're fun bikes, but if you think you're
> > in for a trouble free ownership experience, you'll be disappointed.
>
> Nothing you stated above shows any more propensity for "trouble"
> than is typical of the industry, and certainly less than many
> manufacturers.
I'd have to agree with Adam on this one. I've owned a number of
belt-driven cam Ducatis ranging from a Cagiva 650 to a 851 Superbike,
and have numerous friends that own and ride Ducatis. I see absolutely no
evidence in a rather large sampling that Ducatis from the mid-80's to
present are any more problematic or troublesome than the average modern
motorcycle.
(Otoh, I've owned about 40-45 motorcycles over the last 22 years, and
I've NEVER had a lemon. Maybe I'm just living a charmed life!)
Tim
Dan Nitschke
>
> I am looking at moving to the twins as a second bike (currently have a 2000
> Honda CBR600 F4). Has anyone had direct experience with the BMW R1100S
Got a bit of that, yes. See here:
http://www.idiom.com/~pedantic/misterb.html
> or
> know where I might get a copy of conusmer report comparing the Ducati and
> BMW?
That's a good question. I haven't ever heard of something
like that.
> I am more familiar with the Ducati 900 SS but still, would like to get some
> advice on this line of bikes compared with the competition. Basically, I am
> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out.
Well, the R1100S isn't quite as sporty as the 900SS or the
F4 you're used to. It will rev lower, make more power lower
in the powerband, be somewhat heavier, and not really appreciate
being revved out to redline (you don't need to, anyway).
However, it's better for distances, more comfortable, you can
get hard luggage for it, it has *wonderful* suspension (the
front, especially), sticks like nobody's business (if you ditch
the crummy BT57s for Dunlop D207s -- Trust Me (tm) on this one),
has great brakes, and never needs chain maintenance.
It's a BMW, which means it's a sport-tourer, not a full-out
sportbike. It does many things well; it's the sportiest BMW,
which doesn't make it an R1.
> Having said
> that though, I do not want to give up the "sports" feel and performance I
> have grown accustomed too from the F4.
Go to a BMW dealer and test-ride. They do that.
It's really a great bike, but make sure you want it for
what it *does*, not what you hope it might do.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, OB,GYN®, HH #1, LCDB (tm) #1, NGI #0^0 */
Dan Nitschke ^*^ peDA...@idiom.com ^*^ (.....)@(.......).net
#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#
You're caught up in the Internet, you think it's such a great
asset, but you're wrong, wrong, wrong; all that fiber-optic
gear still cannot take away the fear like an island song.
-- Jimmy Buffett, 'Holiday'
TexMoto
Andy Burnett wrote:
Maybe I should be taking my 40k mile 900ss into a shop somewhere for some of that
scheduled lack of reliability. What should I bring it in for? Nothing has ever gone
wrong with it.
My wife's '97 748 did have the rocker problem but once that was solved the bike has
been fine. By the way, it's a high mileage bike as well.
TexMoto
> While sporting Ducatis are clearly not for everyone who wants to do distance, I know a
> guy who toured exensively on a *916* (and I mean serious, Goldwing-style touring, not 150
> mile days), and there's a
> super multiple Iron Butt Rally guy who has used the same ST2 for well over a year (that
> would mean about 80k grueling miles so far, I believe).
I know people who tour on 916's too. My wife nearly-tours on her 748, with 400-500 mile
one-day trips being very common. But by the end of the day, we feel it.
> Some people will NEVER fit on certain bikes, and sport Ducatis tend to be more difficult
> to ride
> ....
> Which Ducati?
'95 900 ss
> The rear calipers are mounted by pinned plate to the swingarm, and the rear brakes are
> prone to "sing". Ducati has a reaction rod attachment that will cure that problem and
> improve handling under hard braking a bit, but the simple cure is to use DunloPad brake
> pads in the rear (GG is fine). The noise goes away, every time.
I'll have to look into that.
> > The ST2 and ST4 are far more comfortable.
> I guess it depend on who you are. I am fairly small, and the "lets you slide around a
> lot for longer trips"
Yes, of course. For my size (5'10") the difference was amazing, with the ST2 being far
superior in comfort. On the same trip, my wife (5' 4") was on my 900 SS and commented on
how much more uncomfortable than her 748 the 900 ss was. Go figure!
> > I test rode a '98 (I think) ST2 and loved the comfort and handling. The ST4, of course,
> is a lot faster than both the ST2 and 900 SS.
> However, the ST4 makes its power higher up the rev range. You can mod an ST2 relatively
> easily to get it to make chest-thumping torque and plenty of power. I feel that's the
> way to go unless you're a
> "keep it on the boil" redline hooligan at heart. I;{>
Which many of us are. Actually, I like the horsepower characteristics of the 900 SS better
myself, hence why I ride a 900 SS.
Some Guy on a Bike
wrote:
>>> After about 400 miles on the Ducati, you will definitely have to take Monday off.
>> While sporting Ducatis are clearly not for everyone who wants to do distance, I know a
>> guy who toured exensively on a *916* (and I mean serious, Goldwing-style touring, not 150
>> mile days), and there's a
>> super multiple Iron Butt Rally guy who has used the same ST2 for well over a year (that
>> would mean about 80k grueling miles so far, I believe).
> I know people who tour on 916's too. My wife nearly-tours on her 748, with 400-500 mile
> one-day trips being very common. But by the end of the day, we feel it.
Well, this guy has Heli-Bars and a Corbin. And he does 600-mile
days without discomfort, though I know that is not for everyone.
>> Some people will NEVER fit on certain bikes, and sport Ducatis tend to be more difficult
>> to ride
>> Which Ducati?
> '95 900 ss
Which, to me anyway, has BETTER ergos than the new ones. Hm.
>> The rear calipers are mounted by pinned plate to the swingarm, and the rear brakes are
>> prone to "sing". Ducati has a reaction rod attachment that will cure that problem and
>> improve handling under hard braking a bit, but the simple cure is to use DunloPad brake
>> pads in the rear (GG is fine). The noise goes away, every time.
> I'll have to look into that.
I've installed them on a fair number of different belt-driven-cam
Ducs, and it never fails. They're great pads overall; I've been
using the GGs on track days with no troubles and no fade. Having a
ceramic backing really helps!
>>> The ST2 and ST4 are far more comfortable.
>> I guess it depend on who you are. I am fairly small, and the "lets you slide around a
>> lot for longer trips" seat...
> Yes, of course. For my size (5'10") the difference was amazing, with the ST2 being far
> superior in comfort.
For a taller rider than I, especially one with longer legs, that
makes perfect sense to me.
> On the same trip, my wife (5' 4") was on my 900 SS and commented on
> how much more uncomfortable than her 748 the 900 ss was. Go figure!
I have found that I fit the Superbikes very well. I get the
feelings they were designed to be more comfortable for us shorter
folks.
>>> I test rode a '98 (I think) ST2 and loved the comfort and handling. The ST4, of course,
>>> is a lot faster than both the ST2 and 900 SS.
>> However, the ST4 makes its power higher up the rev range. You can mod an ST2 relatively
>> easily to get it to make chest-thumping torque and plenty of power. I feel that's the
>> way to go unless you're a
>> "keep it on the boil" redline hooligan at heart. I;{>
> Which many of us are. Actually, I like the horsepower characteristics of the 900 SS better
> myself, hence why I ride a 900 SS.
Better than the ST2? Have you tried, say, and ST2 with a
high-quality chip and a set of Staintunes with no baffles? I have,
and it would make a stock 900SS envious...
I was never fond of the rattletrap noises of the air-cooled motors
in a sporting machine, nor the vibration. I find the ST2 is my
current fave, though I might have to spring for an ST4S when they
come to this side of the pond...
Andy Burnett
>Maybe I should be taking my 40k mile 900ss into a shop somewhere for
>some of that scheduled lack of reliability. What should I bring it in
>for? Nothing has ever gone wrong with it.
Well, I'm glad for you. My '95 916 is at the other end of the reliability
spectrum. It's been a fun bike and I've kept it since it was new, but I
probably wouldn't buy another Duc. I haven't kept a list of all the stuff
that's gone wrong with it, but here's what comes to mind:
* It's gone through six rectifiers. A couple of the failed ones actually
caught fire. One resulted in having to replace the right fairing lower
from heat damage.
* The bike is on its fourth coolant reservoir. The other three cracked.
The last one cracked within 2K miles. The current one will crack too.
* The rear axle broke in two. Yes, I do know there was a recall on the
part, but there is exactly *one* testing unit that is shared by all shops
in the US and they send it around to each other. During the windows of
time the unti was at my dealership, the timing wasn't convenient for me to
bring the bike in and leave it with them. They also downplayed the
problem, saying is was quite rare. It may be, but it's memorable when the
axle breaks.
* Shortly after getting the bike, I discovered that the Italians don't know
about Loctite or similar materials. Many, many fasteners fell out. One
day, as I set off on a ride, my seat cowl started moving around. I pulled
over and tfound the bolts that hold the rear latch on missing. I went to
the dealer for new bolts. He replaced them and used Loctite. When I got
home, I went to put the kickstand down and found it was gone.
* I'm on my third sprague clutch.
* The gas tank began leaking through a spot weld on the rear mounting tab.
I had the tank welded and a couple of weeks later one cylinder cut out as I
rode home from work. When I got home, I found that the gas from the
previously leaking tank had blown back and dissolved two out of three
rubber mounts for the ignition computer. The computer was then free to
jiggle around and quickly fatigued a wire in the ignition harness.
This bike has about 32K miles on it. Not all that high in my book, as I
have another bike with about 106K on it that hasn't had a fraction of the
problems the 916 has. The list above is not comprehensive; it's just the
stuff that comes to mind.
The duc is fun to ride, but my personal experience has been that
reliability is a disaster. My local independent mechanic has seen many of
these things happen over and over with customer bikes, so I'm not alone,
but I don't know how typical my experience is. If your sarcasm above is
intended to imply that I don't have valid reasons for saying what I did
about Ducati reliability, you may go pound sand.
>My wife's '97 748 did have the rocker problem but once that was solved
>the bike has been fine. By the way, it's a high mileage bike as well.
Glad to hear it. For some reason you and I are having different
experiences.
ab
Some Guy on a Bike
Burnett) wrote:
> * It's gone through six rectifiers. A couple of the failed ones actually
> caught fire. One resulted in having to replace the right fairing lower
> from heat damage.
This tells me there's likely something else rather wrong there. I
haven't seen a late-model Duc do anything like that, and the number
of regulators says something.
You might want to diagnose what's catching them alight, and if
nothing comes to mind, have a different one fitted. Shouldn't be
very hard to take one from another bike, if there is something about
that specific regulator that's causing trouble. I would suggest you
have a flaky ground as a possible cause.
> * The bike is on its fourth coolant reservoir. The other three cracked.
> The last one cracked within 2K miles. The current one will crack too.
Hm. I don't usually see Superbikes with much likeage on them. This
is the frst time I've heard of this.
Considered fitting a rubber bushing between the tab and the mounting
point?
> * The rear axle broke in two. Yes, I do know there was a recall on the
> part, but there is exactly *one* testing unit that is shared by all shops
> in the US and they send it around to each other.
That's a load of crap. My shop has a testing unit sitting in the
parts area, by the oil drum.
Some shops may have decided to share the cost, or something similar,
but all the authorized shops whose technicians received factory
training have the machine, AFAIK. Either that, or there's a big
black plastic tool case (like the ones the Mathesis machines come
in, but bigger) that's labeled "hub ultrasound" that's about
something else.
> During the windows of
> time the unti was at my dealership, the timing wasn't convenient for me to
> bring the bike in and leave it with them. They also downplayed the
> problem, saying is was quite rare. It may be, but it's memorable when the
> axle breaks.
The problem is quite rare. Not that that means anything to you. I
think your shop was irresponsible for downplaying what was obviously
a serious enough safety concern to cause Ducati NA to spend a
serious chunk of change on finding it in a very small number of
affected units.
> * Shortly after getting the bike, I discovered that the Italians don't know
> about Loctite or similar materials. Many, many fasteners fell out.
That's a problem that should have been taken care of by the shop
that set up your bike. Most fasteners aren't supposed to have
Loc-Tite, but they WILL fall out if they are not kept tight on a
regular schedule (meaning usually checking most of them when
delivered, and every 12-18k miles after that). Sounds like your
machine was poorly set up.
> One
> day, as I set off on a ride, my seat cowl started moving around. I pulled
> over and tfound the bolts that hold the rear latch on missing. I went to
> the dealer for new bolts. He replaced them and used Loctite. When I got
> home, I went to put the kickstand down and found it was gone.
This was when the bike was new, yes? Before the first service?
Stinks of poor set-up.
> * I'm on my third sprague clutch.
This one I have no explanation for. Again, another problem I
haven't seen.
> * The gas tank began leaking through a spot weld on the rear mounting tab.
> I had the tank welded and a couple of weeks later one cylinder cut out as I
> rode home from work. When I got home, I found that the gas from the
> previously leaking tank had blown back and dissolved two out of three
> rubber mounts for the ignition computer. The computer was then free to
> jiggle around and quickly fatigued a wire in the ignition harness.
I'm sorry you didn't find that while it was under the warranty
period, since all that would have been covered. When you
hand-build, sometimes things like that happen. Not an excuse, true.
> This bike has about 32K miles on it. Not all that high in my book, as I
> have another bike with about 106K on it that hasn't had a fraction of the
> problems the 916 has.
You seem to have gotten one with a few defects all together. Some
of them haven't even been fixed! One thing you mentioned is a
design flaw.
More than anything, please let me know what the dealer is that
downplayed the recall and did the set-up, as I'd like to avoid them,
or sending people to them, in the future.
> The duc is fun to ride, but my personal experience has been that
> reliability is a disaster.
I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. I doubt that anything
anyone could say or do would change your mind; if it were up to me,
I'd set you up with a nice 900SS or something and let you ride it as
long as you liked.
> My local independent mechanic has seen many of
> these things happen over and over with customer bikes, so I'm not alone,
I'm curious why a local mechanic would see these things on fairly
new bikes. Are people not taking them to dealerships for regular
maintenance and recall attention? That could be part of the problem
right there.
I've seen a LOT of Ducatis, as service manager for a Ducati
dealership, and honestly, my experiences have largely been quite
different from yours. Every now and again, every manufacturer turns
out a lemon, and those typically get found before the bike goes very
far. Sounds like you got hit by a combination of negative factors,
and that's added up to a disastrous ownership experience for you.
> but I don't know how typical my experience is. If your sarcasm above is
> intended to imply that I don't have valid reasons for saying what I did
> about Ducati reliability, you may go pound sand.
I think he was just saying that your experience isn't the norm, and
I would have to agree with him, from my experience.
>> My wife's '97 748 did have the rocker problem but once that was solved
>> the bike has been fine. By the way, it's a high mileage bike as well.
> Glad to hear it. For some reason you and I are having different
> experiences.
Drop me a line and I'll see if I can't get you some help. I can at
least get some of your troubles sorted out, and possibly can do more
than that.
Jay
experience and ASNT LIII certified to test and develop procedures even.
Suppose I could go around and check axles? I have my own equipment, (the
flaw-detector unit cost as much as a new 929 )and I know, if I plotted out the
part, I would be much more accurate than a motorcycle mechanic. At least now I
know that before I ever buy a used Duc, I'm gonna UT the axle!!!!
>> * The rear axle broke in two. Yes, I do know there was a recall on the
>> part, but there is exactly *one* testing unit that is shared by all shops
>> in the US and they send it around to each other.
>
>That's a load of crap. My shop has a testing unit sitting in the
>parts area, by the oil drum.
>
>Some shops may have decided to share the cost, or something similar,
>but all the authorized shops whose technicians received factory
>training have the machine, AFAIK. Either that, or there's a big
>black plastic tool case (like the ones the Mathesis machines come
>in, but bigger) that's labeled "hub ultrasound" that's about
>something else.
---------------
Jay
*****please remove your bra to reply*****
TexMoto
> >>> is a lot faster than both the ST2 and 900 SS.
> >> However, the ST4 makes its power higher up the rev range. You can mod an ST2 relatively
> >> easily to get it to make chest-thumping torque and plenty of power. I feel that's the
> >> way to go unless you're a
> >> "keep it on the boil" redline hooligan at heart. I;{>
> > Which many of us are. Actually, I like the horsepower characteristics of the 900 SS better
> > myself, hence why I ride a 900 SS.
> Better than the ST2? Have you tried, say, and ST2 with a
> high-quality chip and a set of Staintunes with no baffles? I have,
> and it would make a stock 900SS envious...
No, no, I meant I like the power characteristics of the 2 valve engines over the 4 valve ones.
Low end torque and a smaller rpm range. The ST2 was fitted with aftermarket pipes but I'm not
sure the chip had been changed (the dealer I borrowed it from is the most inept idiot on earth
and can barely change his shoes without help).
I was impressed with how well sorted the FI was on the ST2, as oppossed to the stock 900 SS
engines (pre-FI), and enjoyed the ride a lot more than I thought I would. You can read what I
thought of it at http://www.texmoto.com/TexMotoMainArticles/DucatiST2TestRide.htm
> I was never fond of the rattletrap noises of the air-cooled motors in a sporting machine, nor
> the
Oh, I love those noises. My second bike, when it runs, is a Kawasaki H1 triple, and is even
noisier than the Ducati.
Andy Burnett
>On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:01:04 GMT, abur...@NOhomeSPAM.com (Andy
>Burnett) wrote:
>
>> * It's gone through six rectifiers. A couple of the failed ones
>> actually caught fire. One resulted in having to replace the right
>> fairing lower from heat damage.
>
>This tells me there's likely something else rather wrong there. I
>haven't seen a late-model Duc do anything like that, and the number
>of regulators says something.
>
>You might want to diagnose what's catching them alight, and if
>nothing comes to mind, have a different one fitted. Shouldn't be
>very hard to take one from another bike, if there is something about
>that specific regulator that's causing trouble. I would suggest you
>have a flaky ground as a possible cause.
Many 916 owners I know have gone through a like number of rectifiers. To
Ducati's credit, they've eaten the cost of every single replacement except
the last one. I finally got fed up and put in an Electrix unit. So far,
problem solved.
>> * The bike is on its fourth coolant reservoir. The other three
>> cracked. The last one cracked within 2K miles. The current one will
>> crack too.
>
>Hm. I don't usually see Superbikes with much likeage on them. This
>is the frst time I've heard of this.
>
>Considered fitting a rubber bushing between the tab and the mounting
>point?
I'm not sure which tab you're referring to. The reservior I'm speaking of
is the plastic one locate directly behind the steering head. There are no
fasteners holding it in; it's caged in the framework and held in place by
the ignition key assembly and the airbox. It might not be a bad idea to
bush the contact points with something, but I think the problem is more due
to how that plastic gets along with heat than anything else.
It's not a rare problem according to both the dealer and independent.
>> * The rear axle broke in two. Yes, I do know there was a recall on
>> the part, but there is exactly *one* testing unit that is shared by
>> all shops in the US and they send it around to each other.
>
>That's a load of crap. My shop has a testing unit sitting in the
>parts area, by the oil drum.
Well, I'm just passing along what the shop claimed.
>Some shops may have decided to share the cost, or something similar,
>but all the authorized shops whose technicians received factory
>training have the machine, AFAIK. Either that, or there's a big
>black plastic tool case (like the ones the Mathesis machines come
>in, but bigger) that's labeled "hub ultrasound" that's about
>something else.
I'm not sure who is funding the testing units -- Ducati NA or the shops.
If the latter, there may be a regional sharing thing going on. In which
case, I may have misunderstood how many shops are sharing the thing. But I
was clear about this: They each only have it for about three weeks at a
time.
>The problem is quite rare. Not that that means anything to you. I
>think your shop was irresponsible for downplaying what was obviously
>a serious enough safety concern to cause Ducati NA to spend a
>serious chunk of change on finding it in a very small number of
>affected units.
To be fair, they downplayed the problem in response to me asking them how
soon I ought to bring the bike in. They said they'd seen one bad axle or
something like that, so I decided to do it at my convenience. Also to be
fair to them, I have been putting it off for over a year since.
Fortunately for me, the failure didn't happen at a critical time. Ducati
NA did replace the axle andall related bearings and seals. They were fine
with my request that I be given the parts to install myself.
>That's a problem that should have been taken care of by the shop
>that set up your bike. Most fasteners aren't supposed to have
>Loc-Tite, but they WILL fall out if they are not kept tight on a
>regular schedule (meaning usually checking most of them when
>delivered, and every 12-18k miles after that). Sounds like your
>machine was poorly set up.
Maybe so, but the approach I took instead was to remove all critical
fasteners that didn't have an electrical function and apply Loctite. None
have fallen out since.
>> When I got home, I went to put the kickstand down and found
>> it was gone.
>
>This was when the bike was new, yes? Before the first service?
>Stinks of poor set-up.
Yes.
>> * I'm on my third sprague clutch.
>
>This one I have no explanation for. Again, another problem I
>haven't seen.
I know of a couple other cases.
>
>> * The gas tank began leaking through a spot weld on the rear mounting
>> tab. I had the tank welded and a couple of weeks later one cylinder
>> cut out as I rode home from work. When I got home, I found that the
>> gas from the previously leaking tank had blown back and dissolved two
>> out of three rubber mounts for the ignition computer. The computer
>> was then free to jiggle around and quickly fatigued a wire in the
>> ignition harness.
>
>I'm sorry you didn't find that while it was under the warranty
>period, since all that would have been covered. When you
>hand-build, sometimes things like that happen. Not an excuse, true.
This happened withing the past six months. The bike was pretty old by this
time. Also not an excuse, but I think it took time and vibration for it to
show up.
>More than anything, please let me know what the dealer is that
>downplayed the recall and did the set-up, as I'd like to avoid them,
>or sending people to them, in the future.
I've had experiences with more than one dealer. Few in this area have
great reputations, though people's experience seems to vary. The one in
question has been quite accomodating to my requests for out-of-warranty
goodwill replacement parts and have gone to bat for me with Ducati NA on
debatable issues. They aren't the dealership I bought the bike from and so
have no responsibility in my mind for how it was set up. They don't have a
stellar reputation with everyone around here, but they've treated me fairly
over time. I haven't had good luck with their service department in the
distant past, but I have no recent experience with that. Their biggest
shortcoming in my recent experience is that their follow-through leaves
something to be desired.
>I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. I doubt that anything
>anyone could say or do would change your mind; if it were up to me,
>I'd set you up with a nice 900SS or something and let you ride it as
>long as you liked.
That's nice of you for sure. I still enjoy my bike or I wouldn't keep it
and I wouldn't discourage others from trying one. I say what I do about
reliability because my experience says there's a better than average chance
they will have trouble with the bike, and they will be less disappointed if
they understand that could happen before the purchase. These aren't gas,
oil and go bikes; they require regular inspection that other bikes
generally don't.
>I'm curious why a local mechanic would see these things on fairly
>new bikes. Are people not taking them to dealerships for regular
>maintenance and recall attention? That could be part of the problem
>right there.
One reason is that the service departments at many Bay Area dealerships
have a deplorable reputation. As soon as the warranty period is over,
people start looking for better alternatives. Some people don't even wait
that long. The independent I'm referring to has asuperb reputation. They
find more rocker flaking problems than anyone else because they know to
look for them. They don't stop at inspecting the oil prefilter for chome
flakes; they pull the cams and look at the rocker faces. The faces begin
to turn dull grey before they begin flaking. Most shops around here just
don't go to the trouble.
>Drop me a line and I'll see if I can't get you some help. I can at
>least get some of your troubles sorted out, and possibly can do more
>than that.
Thanks for the offer. I don't have any outstanding problems at this point.
I also wouldn't want to take advantage of the fact that Ducati generally
takes care of its customers when I am not really entitled to anything at
this point.
Take care,
ab
Some Guy on a Bike
Burnett) wrote:
>> You might want to diagnose what's catching them alight, and if
>> nothing comes to mind, have a different one fitted. Shouldn't be
>> very hard to take one from another bike, if there is something about
>> that specific regulator that's causing trouble. I would suggest you
>> have a flaky ground as a possible cause.
> Many 916 owners I know have gone through a like number of rectifiers. To
> Ducati's credit, they've eaten the cost of every single replacement except
> the last one. I finally got fed up and put in an Electrix unit. So far,
> problem solved.
Interesting. I guess they fixed that with the 748 and 996, since
I've never seen one of them do that.
And yes, I do prefer Electrex when replacing parts like that. I
wish I'd known they had them for Daphne when I needed the staor and
regulator for her.
>>> * The bike is on its fourth coolant reservoir. The other three
>>> cracked. The last one cracked within 2K miles. The current one will
>>> crack too.
>> Hm. I don't usually see Superbikes with much mileage on them. This
>> is the frst time I've heard of this.
>> Considered fitting a rubber bushing between the tab and the mounting
>> point?
> I'm not sure which tab you're referring to. The reservior I'm speaking of
> is the plastic one locate directly behind the steering head. There are no
> fasteners holding it in; it's caged in the framework and held in place by
> the ignition key assembly and the airbox.
Ah, sorry. Never had one apart.
> It might not be a bad idea to
> bush the contact points with something, but I think the problem is more due
> to how that plastic gets along with heat than anything else.
How do they crack? You think you could use foil sheeting on it to
keep heat down? Seems like vibration would be a bigger culprit.
> It's not a rare problem according to both the dealer and independent.
Again, not one I've seen on the newer Superbikes, but as I stated, I
haven't seen any with especially high miles on them, either.
>>> * The rear axle broke in two. Yes, I do know there was a recall on
>>> the part, but there is exactly *one* testing unit that is shared by
>>> all shops in the US and they send it around to each other.
>> That's a load of crap. My shop has a testing unit sitting in the
>> parts area, by the oil drum.
> Well, I'm just passing along what the shop claimed.
I wasn't doubting your word; but I can tell you it's a load of crap.
Sounds, on several counts, like you need a new shop, pronto.
>> Some shops may have decided to share the cost, or something similar,
>> but all the authorized shops whose technicians received factory
>> training have the machine, AFAIK. Either that, or there's a big
>> black plastic tool case (like the ones the Mathesis machines come
>> in, but bigger) that's labeled "hub ultrasound" that's about
>> something else.
> I'm not sure who is funding the testing units -- Ducati NA or the shops.
Ducati pays for the training, the testing unit, and pays warranty on
the actual test on each bike (althoguh it takes longer to do the
test than they pay, but still). Ducati basically eats the whole
bill. However, I'm not sure how they decided who got the machines,
and it is possible the shops had to pay for part or al of the cost.
We had ours long before I got there.
> If the latter, there may be a regional sharing thing going on. In which
> case, I may have misunderstood how many shops are sharing the thing. But I
> was clear about this: They each only have it for about three weeks at a
> time.
Well, AFAIK, we can do the tests on any bike at any time. Perhaps
your shop got opne "on loan" from another shop, and their tech
trained your tech? Supposition at this point.
>> The problem is quite rare. Not that that means anything to you. I
>> think your shop was irresponsible for downplaying what was obviously
>> a serious enough safety concern to cause Ducati NA to spend a
>> serious chunk of change on finding it in a very small number of
>> affected units.
> To be fair, they downplayed the problem in response to me asking them how
> soon I ought to bring the bike in. They said they'd seen one bad axle or
> something like that, so I decided to do it at my convenience. Also to be
> fair to them, I have been putting it off for over a year since.
Still, I am insistent on a customer checking something like that as
soon as possible. The affected number was very low, but the
ultrasound was the ONLY way to know. And imagine if the failure had
happened at a track day. I would never play with a customer's life
that way.
> Fortunately for me, the failure didn't happen at a critical time. Ducati
> NA did replace the axle andall related bearings and seals. They were fine
> with my request that I be given the parts to install myself.
That is very unusual. Did you get the parts through the dealership?
If so, they warrantied (and got paid for) the labor they never did
on your bike.
If you had an arrangement with a Ducati factory service rep, that's
another story.
>> That's a problem that should have been taken care of by the shop
>> that set up your bike. Most fasteners aren't supposed to have
>> Loc-Tite, but they WILL fall out if they are not kept tight on a
>> regular schedule (meaning usually checking most of them when
>> delivered, and every 12-18k miles after that). Sounds like your
>> machine was poorly set up.
> Maybe so, but the approach I took instead was to remove all critical
> fasteners that didn't have an electrical function and apply Loctite. None
> have fallen out since.
Surprise, surprise. I;{> FWIW, I've never Loc-Tited anything on a
Duc, and I've never had anything fall out. Then again, I always
torque fasteners to the manual specification.
I have used Loc-Tite on bolts I'm not likely to touch again for
years on my own bike, but only ones that were not nearly tight
enough when I removed them -- like the ones holding the frotn rotors
on. B0
>>> When I got home, I went to put the kickstand down and found
>>> it was gone.
>> This was when the bike was new, yes? Before the first service?
>> Stinks of poor set-up.
> Yes.
That's the sort of stuff Ducati NA needs to hear about their
dealers, so they can take disciplinaty action, and you can be owed a
favor by DNA to make up for crap like that.
Nothing pisses me off quite as much as shitty dealerships, ebcause
they make the rest of us look like shit by association. NO
fasteners should EVER have fallen off your bike.
>>> * The gas tank began leaking through a spot weld on the rear mounting
>>> tab. I had the tank welded and a couple of weeks later one cylinder
>>> cut out as I rode home from work. When I got home, I found that the
>>> gas from the previously leaking tank had blown back and dissolved two
>>> out of three rubber mounts for the ignition computer. The computer
>>> was then free to jiggle around and quickly fatigued a wire in the
>>> ignition harness.
>> I'm sorry you didn't find that while it was under the warranty
>> period, since all that would have been covered. When you
>> hand-build, sometimes things like that happen. Not an excuse, true.
> This happened withing the past six months. The bike was pretty old by this
> time. Also not an excuse, but I think it took time and vibration for it to
> show up.
Unfortunate, since it was clearly a manufacturing defect. You might
find a GOOD dealer, go and explain the problem to the service
manager, with all associate receipts, and ask teh service manager if
he would be so kind as to ask Ducati NA's service rep if there is
anything they could do, considering all the troubles and problems
you have had with the bike, especially as this was a manufacturing
defect that took time to show up. You may well find, with a service
manager on your side, that DNA will help you out significantly with
it. Of course, they may not, but with the cost of a tank and a
wiring haness... Anything is worth a shot.
>> More than anything, please let me know what the dealer is that
>> downplayed the recall and did the set-up, as I'd like to avoid them,
>> or sending people to them, in the future.
> I've had experiences with more than one dealer. Few in this area have
> great reputations, though people's experience seems to vary. The one in
> question has been quite accomodating to my requests for out-of-warranty
> goodwill replacement parts and have gone to bat for me with Ducati NA on
> debatable issues.
Interesting. It may have been an isolated incident, but I would be
wary of any bike set up by them. Might have been one bad employee
who's not there any more. Hard to say. I was under the impression
that all the negative dealership experiences were from one shop.
> They aren't the dealership I bought the bike from and so
> have no responsibility in my mind for how it was set up.
Aha. There you are.
> They don't have a
> stellar reputation with everyone around here, but they've treated me fairly
> over time.
Well, I've found Ducatisti, no offense, to often be overly
righteous, and sometimes downright pricks. Often, tehy refuse to
accept they're wrong on technical issues that I know I know better
than they, and this can result in bad blood when I explain to them
what I fixed on their bike. There will always be self-righteous
snobs who "know" more than experienced mechanics do. Not to say the
factory-trained tech is the ultimate resource, but some of these
guys are sure they are God.
> I haven't had good luck with their service department in the
> distant past, but I have no recent experience with that. Their biggest
> shortcoming in my recent experience is that their follow-through leaves
> something to be desired.
And that's not terribly good, either.
Damn, I hate shoddy dealerships.
>> I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. I doubt that anything
>> anyone could say or do would change your mind; if it were up to me,
>> I'd set you up with a nice 900SS or something and let you ride it as
>> long as you liked.
> That's nice of you for sure. I still enjoy my bike or I wouldn't keep it
> and I wouldn't discourage others from trying one. I say what I do about
> reliability because my experience says there's a better than average chance
> they will have trouble with the bike, and they will be less disappointed if
> they understand that could happen before the purchase.
While I agree that significant problems are more likely than with,
say, a Honda, and hand-manufacturing adds some special quirks you
don't get with more mass-produced marques, I honestly feel the new
bikes are significantly more reliable than yours. I've had personal
experience with perhaps 100-150 post-1996 Ducatis in the past 6
months, and I have service records on almost all of these bikes that
go back to new or near new. Not a one has had the sort of problems
you describe. The worst I've seen was a 996 that chewed a valve at
2k miles (there was some question about whether he'd had his
600-mile service), but Ducati warrantied the whole job. I've seen
one serious electrical problem, but it was on a brand-new bike that
was a demo, and never left the dealership. Everything else was
either minor typical stuff (bad switches, crate damage, that sort of
thing), or regular TSBs or light recalls.
> These aren't gas,
> oil and go bikes; they require regular inspection that other bikes
> generally don't.
I think it's not as bad as your experience would dictate. Things
seem to have gotten a lot better after Cagiva got out. But I would
probably caution against buying one from before 1997.
>> I'm curious why a local mechanic would see these things on fairly
>> new bikes. Are people not taking them to dealerships for regular
>> maintenance and recall attention? That could be part of the problem
>> right there.
> One reason is that the service departments at many Bay Area dealerships
> have a deplorable reputation. As soon as the warranty period is over,
> people start looking for better alternatives. Some people don't even wait
> that long. The independent I'm referring to has a superb reputation. They
> find more rocker flaking problems than anyone else because they know to
> look for them. They don't stop at inspecting the oil prefilter for chome
> flakes; they pull the cams and look at the rocker faces.
Well, to be honest, this is something that can be done without much
trouble during a valve adjustment. Why a dealer that wanted to stay
in business would not even look is beyond me.
> The faces begin
> to turn dull grey before they begin flaking. Most shops around here just
> don't go to the trouble.
That is sad, and amazing. Makes me want to open a good dealership,
just to make those people happy again.
>> Drop me a line and I'll see if I can't get you some help. I can at
>> least get some of your troubles sorted out, and possibly can do more
>> than that.
> Thanks for the offer. I don't have any outstanding problems at this point.
> I also wouldn't want to take advantage of the fact that Ducati generally
> takes care of its customers when I am not really entitled to anything at
> this point.
To my way of thinking, you are entitled to have you experience
erased and replaced with one that more closely resembles the ones
I'm used to delivering to people with the sale of the NEW machines.
Failing that...
Makes me wish I worked for Ducati NA.
artdunn
by Ducati n.a. The 40k + miles were put on from Mar. to Sept. No
significant maint. other than tires and a chain and sprocket set.
Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bnc56t8nt50m8i2th...@4ax.com...
Steve Midgley
news:#XhFvg8fAHA.280@cpmsnbbsa07...
> The bike at the Long Beach show was a st4 ridden by Gary Eagan and
sponsored
> by Ducati n.a. The 40k + miles were put on from Mar. to Sept. No
> significant maint. other than tires and a chain and sprocket set.
> Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:bnc56t8nt50m8i2th...@4ax.com...
Some of the details on this bike are online at
http://www.utahducati.com/Rally-1.html
Steve Midgley
Salt Lake Motorsports
http://UtahDucati.com
Old Biker
>
> I am looking at moving to the twins ...
>
> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
> have grown accustomed too from the F4.
IMHO Since you're only doing very short trips (< 300 miles/day)
and like the F4 I definitely get the Duck. If you need even more
comfort or even luggage consider an ST2 or, for mucho more
performance, an ST4. The BM's, even the "S", are heavier, more
touring oriented (think Gold Wing).
Dan Nitschke
>
> The BM's, even the "S", are heavier, more
> touring oriented (think Gold Wing).
While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
an absurd level.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, OB,GYN®, HH #1, LCDB (tm) #1, NGI #0^0 */
Dan Nitschke ^^ peDA...@idiom.com ^^ (.)@(.....).net
/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
I am one of those melodramatic fools; neurotic to the bone,
no doubt about it. -- Green Day, 'Basket Case'
Old Biker
>
> While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
> 900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
> an absurd level.
Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked. Of course BMW
NA will gladly tell you it isn't so. That's why the R1100S is
winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
as the F4 right? .... ;o)
Dan Nitschke
>
> Dan Nitschke wrote:
> >
> > While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
> > 900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
> > an absurd level.
>
> Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
> than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked.
How much experience do you have to back that up?
> Of course BMW
> NA will gladly tell you it isn't so.
So will those of us who have ridden both. See,
I *know* how false your statement is, firsthand.
> That's why the R1100S is
> winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
> as the F4 right? .... ;o)
Since BMW doesn't enter it in races, that's a moot
point, anyhow.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged, OB,GYN®, HH #1, LCDB (tm) #1, NGI #0^0 */
Dan Nitschke \<~ peDA...@idiom.com ~>/ (.....)@(......).net
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was just about to mail a letter to my evil twin when I got a
nasty paper cut, and, well, to make a long story short, it got
infected and I died. -Weird Al, 'Everything You Know Is Wrong'
Old Biker
>
> Old Biker wrote:
> > Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
> > than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked.
>
> How much experience do you have to back that up?
Well, lessee, I've only owned one Gold Wing (for about 40,000
miles) and about a dozen BMWs (Guessing +200,000 total) over the
last 20 years; including one R11RT (20K). I even have a /6 in
the garage right now.
I know it hurts to admit it but the two are more similar to each
other than either is to any lightweight sportbike like an R4.
That doesn't mean they're bad bikes but ...
>
> > Of course BMW NA will gladly tell you it isn't so.
>
> So will those of us who have ridden both. See,
> I *know* how false your statement is, firsthand.
Sorry. I try to avoid attacking peoples' religious beliefs. I'm
sure I can find 1000's of born again Christians to assure me
that Eve's apple was poisoned by the knowledge of sex, but that
doesn't make it so. How many miles or laps do you have on
lightweight sportbikes?
>
> > That's why the R1100S is
> > winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
> > as the F4 right? .... ;o)
>
> Since BMW doesn't enter it in races, that's a moot point, anyhow.
No, point is that a bunch of F4s (and Ducks) are being
*successfully* raced by privateers but I know of *zero* R1100s'
or Gold Wings being raced with any similar success - and for
good reason: handling. On a scale of 1-10, with a good TZ250 as
a 1 and an HD Bagger as a 10, I'd give the F4 a 4, the R11S an 8
and the Wing a 9 ... but only cuz the Wing and Bagger lack
ground clearance .... :o)
Erik Astrup
wrote:
>I saw an ST2 all decked out as a long-distance mount at the cycle
>world show in Long Beach. It looked pretty rough, especially
>considering that it had fewer miles on it than my Sprint. I'm not sure
>what point they were trying to make, but I didn't find it's 40K miles
>to be all that impressive.
Errmmmm...Im pretty sure that was an ST4, and those miles go put on it
in literally, "record time".
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup - http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/
1995 Triumph Tiger
1999 Yamaha YZF1000 R1
"Looks like you've been missing quite a bit of work lately."
"Well, I wouldn't say I've been MISSING it, Bob."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jake McGuire
news:3A64B790...@3n.net...
> No, point is that a bunch of F4s (and Ducks) are being
> *successfully* raced by privateers but I know of *zero* R1100s'
> or Gold Wings being raced with any similar success - and for
> good reason: handling. On a scale of 1-10, with a good TZ250 as
> a 1 and an HD Bagger as a 10, I'd give the F4 a 4, the R11S an 8
> and the Wing a 9 ... but only cuz the Wing and Bagger lack
> ground clearance .... :o)
You're casting shadows on the water.
That aside, no one races the R1100S because even if you sleeved it down or
destroked it to under a liter, you'd be up against the GSXR 750 and Ducati
996, each of which make about 30% more horsepower and weigh about 20% less.
Try following a "poor handling" R1150GS down Tunitas Creek or Page Mill
sometime.
-jake
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> The BM's, even the "S", are heavier, more
> touring oriented (think Gold Wing).
This would not be thinking at all. This would be ridiculous.
Jeff
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> Dan Nitschke wrote:
> >
> > While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
> > 900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
> > an absurd level.
> Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
> than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked.
Then your humble opinion is silly and wrong. I'll be tickled to give you a
demonstration. Got access to an F4? If you can beat my friend Mac on his
stock R11S with an F4, I'll supply your beer and liquor requirements for the
rest of the year. Deal? (Don't believe everything you read in Sport Rider,
and don't be mislead by bike weight, etc.)
>Of course BMW
> NA will gladly tell you it isn't so.
As will you, yourself, following the above eye-opening demonstration.
>That's why the R1100S is
> winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
> as the F4 right? .... ;o)
Since the BMW R11S is not raced much on this continent (USA) no one would
know. Another silly comment.
The S is a lot better handler and more potent than you might realize. It is
far more toward the *sport* end of sport touring than the *touring* end. If
it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
Jeff
Jeff
> >
> > Old Biker wrote:
> > > Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
> > > than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked.
> >
> > How much experience do you have to back that up?
>
> Well, lessee, I've only owned one Gold Wing (for about 40,000
> miles) and about a dozen BMWs (Guessing +200,000 total) over the
> last 20 years; including one R11RT (20K). I even have a /6 in
> the garage right now.
Oh, well GW ownership and owning a bunch of softly-sprung old women's bikes
would certainly make you an expert. Try an S before you make such broad
statements. You're in for a surprise.
> I know it hurts to admit it but the two are more similar to each
> other than either is to any lightweight sportbike like an R4.
> That doesn't mean they're bad bikes but ...
It might hurt if true, but it isn't. The S, while heavier, is far closer to
an F4 than the Limosine of Motorcycles--the Gold Wing. I sold my 996S this
past summer after a brief ownership and was amazed at how agile my S was in
comparison to this ultimate of track bikes. The S is no GW. It may not be
an F4 either, but it's far closer than to the two-wheeled Greyhound bus.
GW--------------S----F4
> > > Of course BMW NA will gladly tell you it isn't so.
> >
> > So will those of us who have ridden both. See,
> > I *know* how false your statement is, firsthand.
> Sorry. I try to avoid attacking peoples' religious beliefs. I'm
> sure I can find 1000's of born again Christians to assure me
> that Eve's apple was poisoned by the knowledge of sex, but that
> doesn't make it so. How many miles or laps do you have on
> lightweight sportbikes?
Can't speak for Dan, but I've got enough track miles on near-racebikes to
know what I'm saying. My 996S should qualify, certainly.
> > > That's why the R1100S is
> > > winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
> > > as the F4 right? .... ;o)
> > Since BMW doesn't enter it in races, that's a moot point, anyhow.
> No, point is that a bunch of F4s (and Ducks) are being
> *successfully* raced by privateers but I know of *zero* R1100s'
> or Gold Wings being raced with any similar success - and for
> good reason: handling. On a scale of 1-10, with a good TZ250 as
> a 1 and an HD Bagger as a 10, I'd give the F4 a 4, the R11S an 8
> and the Wing a 9 ... but only cuz the Wing and Bagger lack
> ground clearance .... :o)
I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a 2
or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
ridden an S.
Jeff
Old Biker
> I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a 2
> or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> ridden an S.
With all due respect for your more recent racing experience, the
scale offered begins with a good TZ250 as a one so your comments
demo that you've never ridden a good TZ. Again I offer the
example of the time they let Rich Oliver ride his at Willow
Springs. Rich had the pole but was about 10th into turn one due
to gearing. He passed the #2 bike on the inside going into the
loop on top of the hill then #1 on the outside in that same
corner. By the time they got into the last sweeper he was
crossing start/finish. So, even if your 996 is better than the
best of those F-USA Superbikes, I could still give it only ..
hmmm ... how about a 5 or 6?? ;o) The BMer? An 8 was being
generous.
Old Biker
> The S is a lot better...
> it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
Aha! Born again are ye ... ;o)
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> Jeff wrote:....
> > I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a
2
> > or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> > ridden an S.
> With all due respect for your more recent racing experience, the
> scale offered begins with a good TZ250 as a one so your comments
> demo that you've never ridden a good TZ.
I've ridden an older Honda 500 GP racer. Does that count? My ratings still
stand, especially where your TZ250 is concerned. Now if you include the 500
GP bike, you're TZ falls to a 3.
>Again I offer the
> example of the time they let Rich Oliver ride his at Willow
> Springs. Rich had the pole but was about 10th into turn one due
> to gearing. He passed the #2 bike on the inside going into the
> loop on top of the hill then #1 on the outside in that same
> corner. By the time they got into the last sweeper he was
> crossing start/finish. So, even if your 996 is better than the
> best of those F-USA Superbikes, I could still give it only ..
> hmmm ... how about a 5 or 6?? ;o) The BMer? An 8 was being
> generous.
Well, if we use your rating system, then, your Gold Wing would be about a
20. That said, I'll accept the 8 for the S. I know for a fact that no Gold
Wing can lap Willow or the Streets anywhere near my S. There will be more
distance between the S and the monster machine than between the TZ ridden by
Oliver and those second and third place bikes, by a longshot.
I stand by my original contention that you have no idea how potent or how
agile a BMW R1100S really is.
Jeff
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> Jeff wrote:...
If you choose to misquote and take my words out of context, then go screw
yourself, Old Biker. I have no desire to debate an outright liar.
Jeff
Desmoface
yourself, Old Biker. I have no desire to debate an outright liar.>
>Jeff
Can't we all just be friends and rejoice over my beautiful, yellow ducati 916??
Steve
98 916
Dan Nitschke
> I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a 2
> or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> ridden an S.
Aye. That's just what I was thinking.
If you can't tell the handling of an R11S from that
of a GoldWing, the problem isn't the *bike*.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke :|: peDA...@idiom.com :|: (.)@(.....).net
-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-
And someone who could be impressed by ordinary lies could
really use a little peace of mind. -- Ian Bairnson
Old Biker
>
> "Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
>
> > Jeff wrote:....
> > > I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a
> 2
> > > or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> > > ridden an S.
>
> > With all due respect for your more recent racing experience, the
> > scale offered begins with a good TZ250 as a one so your comments
> > demo that you've never ridden a good TZ.
>
> I've ridden an older Honda 500 GP racer. Does that count? My ratings still
> stand, especially where your TZ250 is concerned. Now if you include the 500
> GP bike, you're TZ falls to a 3.
Really? How old? BTW, check out the winning F-1,2 & 3 lap times;
considering the power differences the smaller bikes must be the
better handlers.
>
>
> I stand by my original contention that you have no idea how potent or how
> agile a BMW R1100S really is.
OK! OK! I'll admit your BMW handles better than a Gold Wing.
Maybe even as good as Don's Voyager .... ;o)
svrider
--
"If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You have another chance."
ANDREA BOYDSTON
"Desmoface" <desm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010117111905...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
Jeff
"Desmoface" <desm...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >If you choose to misquote and take my words out of context, then go screw
If'n ya let me ride it. Che bella machina! (Sorry, the Italian's not so
good.)
Jeff
Saddlebag
>or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
>ridden an S.
>
>Jeff
wife in tow and I'll bet I could still pick off about 90% of the johnny racer
wannabes on crotch rockets. They are big bikes and take a period to get used
to, but they really don't handle all that bad.
Brian McLaughlin
>
> "Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
>
> > Jeff wrote:....
> > > I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a
> 2
> > > or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> > > ridden an S.
>
> > With all due respect for your more recent racing experience, the
> > scale offered begins with a good TZ250 as a one so your comments
> > demo that you've never ridden a good TZ.
>
> I've ridden an older Honda 500 GP racer. Does that count? My ratings still
> stand, especially where your TZ250 is concerned. Now if you include the 500
> GP bike, you're TZ falls to a 3.
If you are referring to the 500 triple, you are not
correct. I recall Randy Renfrow (sp?) commenting on how
his 250 times (1997) were about 10 seconds faster than
his RS500 times at Road America. A Vtwin TZ is far
better handling than the RS500 Honda.
--
Brian McLaughlin AP #1 NGI #7 BmoZ #[classified]
TZ250E (1993-96) 2 strokes smoke,
R1100RTA (1997) 4 strokes choke!
EX250 Ninja (1998)
Roadracing school instructor http://www.learningcurves.com
Jeff Goss
Jeff wrote:
>
> >That's why the R1100S is
> > winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
> > as the F4 right? .... ;o)
>
> Since the BMW R11S is not raced much on this continent (USA) no one would
> know. Another silly comment.
I thought I saw something in passing at the bike show here in Toronto
about a twins series with r1100s and some buell involved?
>
> The S is a lot better handler and more potent than you might realize. It is
> far more toward the *sport* end of sport touring than the *touring* end. If
> it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
Unfortunately, they looked even better in person when I test-sat one at
the show. Really tempting, I'll have to at least try a real ride
sometime. Fortunately, they seem to be a little cheaper here by
conversion rates than in the US, but it's still a lot of money to plonk
on a bike. I'd need to be sure about all day comfort and wind
protection. I've also heard a lot of comments on the buzziness of these
bikes. My ZX-6 is smooth as silk and I've gotten used to not having to
bring various parts of my anatomy back to life after a long ride.
>
> Jeff
--
Thanks.
Jeff Goss
Jeff
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my 996 a
2
> >or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've never
> >ridden an S.
> Just how long have you ridden GWs? I took mine through many a twisty road
with
> wife in tow and I'll bet I could still pick off about 90% of the johnny
racer
> wannabes on crotch rockets. They are big bikes and take a period to get
used
> to, but they really don't handle all that bad.
Handling is relative. But ground clearance isn't. No way could you stay up
with a rider of equal competence to yourself on an S.
Jeff
Jeff
"Brian McLaughlin" <tzr...@execpc.com> wrote in message
> Jeff wrote:
> >
> > "Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > Jeff wrote:....
> > > > I'd give the F4 a 5, the S a 6 or 7 and the GW a 10+. I'd give my
996 a
> > 2
> > > > or 3, depending upon tires. Your comments demonstrate that you've
never
> > > > ridden an S.
> >
> > > With all due respect for your more recent racing experience, the
> > > scale offered begins with a good TZ250 as a one so your comments
> > > demo that you've never ridden a good TZ.
> >
> > I've ridden an older Honda 500 GP racer. Does that count? My ratings
still
> > stand, especially where your TZ250 is concerned. Now if you include the
500
> > GP bike, you're TZ falls to a 3.
>
> If you are referring to the 500 triple, you are not
> correct. I recall Randy Renfrow (sp?) commenting on how
> his 250 times (1997) were about 10 seconds faster than
> his RS500 times at Road America. A Vtwin TZ is far
> better handling than the RS500 Honda.
It's been a long time since I rode that bike at Sears Point, but I thought
at the time it was a four-cylinder. Of course I may be in error, but the
point is that it was the fastest, quickest bike I've ever ridden, not to
mention possessing impeccable, tossable handling. And the lap times for the
500 GP bikes were about one second faster than those of the smaller
displacement bikes at SP at the time. Same was true at Laguna.
Jeff
Jeff
"Jeff Goss" <jjg...@home.com> wrote in message
> Jeff wrote:
> > Since the BMW R11S is not raced much on this continent (USA) no one
would
> > know. Another silly comment.
> I thought I saw something in passing at the bike show here in Toronto
> about a twins series with r1100s and some buell involved?
Recently I saw a European magazine featuring a silver, much modified R11S
being campaigned over there. Bike was doing very well, IIRC.
> > The S is a lot better handler and more potent than you might realize.
It is
> > far more toward the *sport* end of sport touring than the *touring* end.
If
> > it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
> Unfortunately, they looked even better in person when I test-sat one at
> the show. Really tempting, I'll have to at least try a real ride
> sometime. Fortunately, they seem to be a little cheaper here by
> conversion rates than in the US, but it's still a lot of money to plonk
> on a bike. I'd need to be sure about all day comfort and wind
> protection. I've also heard a lot of comments on the buzziness of these
> bikes. My ZX-6 is smooth as silk and I've gotten used to not having to
> bring various parts of my anatomy back to life after a long ride.
There is a point at around 4K rpm that is fairly buzzy, but I've ridden mine
for 7 hours at a time with brief stops to eat, drink, and drain my personal
crankcase, and none of my body parts needed to be brought back to life. The
vibrations from Oilhead boxer engines is noticeable, but not obtrusive.
This bike is, IMHO, a perfect mating of sport with tour. It does it all
really well.
Jeff
Some Guy on a Bike
<myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
> drain my personal crankcase
Very nice. May I borrow this one?
--
=====================================================================
Adam Wade "The only way I'll stop riding
CWRA #4 SDWL #2 is if I stop breathing."
CIMC #1 DoD #2009 LOMP #2 1990 Zephyr 550 (Daphne)
The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent
those of my employer in any form.
=====================================================================
Some Guy on a Bike
<myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>> If you are referring to the 500 triple, you are not
>> correct. I recall Randy Renfrow (sp?) commenting on how
>> his 250 times (1997) were about 10 seconds faster than
>> his RS500 times at Road America. A Vtwin TZ is far
>> better handling than the RS500 Honda.
> It's been a long time since I rode that bike at Sears Point, but I thought
> at the time it was a four-cylinder.
The Suzuki 500 Gamma (RGV) was, I believe, a square four. Correct
me if I'm wrong here, people.
Tim & Kathy Morrow
>
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:28:48 -0500, "Jeff"
> <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > drain my personal crankcase
>
> Very nice. May I borrow this one?
You want to borrow Jeff's bladder????!!!!!!
;-) Tim
Some Guy on a Bike
<tomo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>> drain my personal crankcase
>> Very nice. May I borrow this one?
> You want to borrow Jeff's bladder????!!!!!!
Ummmm... *NO*.
He can keep all of his anatomy. Nothing there I have a use for,
currently...
Rick Damiani
>"artdunn" <art...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
>news:#XhFvg8fAHA.280@cpmsnbbsa07...
>> The bike at the Long Beach show was a st4 ridden by Gary Eagan and
>sponsored
>> by Ducati n.a. The 40k + miles were put on from Mar. to Sept. No
>> significant maint. other than tires and a chain and sprocket set.
>> Rick Damiani <ri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:bnc56t8nt50m8i2th...@4ax.com...
>
>Some of the details on this bike are online at
>http://www.utahducati.com/Rally-1.html
Sounds like it was getting regular maintenance at any rate.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Rick Damiani
>The bike at the Long Beach show was a st4 ridden by Gary Eagan and sponsored
>by Ducati n.a. The 40k + miles were put on from Mar. to Sept. No
>significant maint. other than tires and a chain and sprocket set.
That the rider was able to put that many miles on a bike that quickly
is impressive, but the bike's survival - while getting regular
maintenance - is not. It should be able to survive indefinitely if it
is getting regular maintenance.
Onethumb
No. He wants to borrow the drain tube.
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
Iron Butt Associate Member #3000
Right Rev. Minister of Packing CM#01
DoD#2021, Waltz#104, JBC#2, BOOF#142
onethumb at swbell dot net
Dan Nitschke
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >
> > The S is a lot better handler and more potent than you might realize.
Yes. And it's very easy to use it, too.
> > It is
> > far more toward the *sport* end of sport touring than the *touring* end. If
> > it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
>
> Unfortunately, they looked even better in person when I test-sat one at
> the show.
I know that one. Ask Steve 65 how calmly I reacted
to my first ride on one.
> Really tempting, I'll have to at least try a real ride
> sometime.
Do that. BMW is really good about test rides.
> Fortunately, they seem to be a little cheaper here by
> conversion rates than in the US, but it's still a lot of money to plonk
> on a bike.
Yeah, it is. Either you like it and it's worth that
much to you, or it isn't. It isn't cheap.
> I'd need to be sure about all day comfort and wind
> protection.
It works for me just fine, but that's a very subjective
thing. Some people find the R1100S doesn't fit them;
some find it fits just great. Give it a try.
> I've also heard a lot of comments on the buzziness of these
> bikes. My ZX-6 is smooth as silk and I've gotten used to not having to
> bring various parts of my anatomy back to life after a long ride.
I've never had a problem with the vibration, and I'm
kinda sensitive to it, having torched muscles in my
back, hips and legs before.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke := peDA...@idiom.com =: (.)@(.....).net
=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=
And if the road he's taken isn't leading anywhere, he
seems to be completely unaware. -Alan Parsons Project
Jeff
"Some Guy on a Bike" <som...@somewhere.u.cant.reach> wrote in message
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:28:48 -0500, "Jeff"
> <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > drain my personal crankcase
>
> Very nice. May I borrow this one?
Only if you promise to bring it back.
Jeff
Some Guy on a Bike
<myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>>> drain my personal crankcase
>> Very nice. May I borrow this one?
> Only if you promise to bring it back.
Only after it's drained.
mrdancer
I've not ridden a GL1500, but my GL1200 certainly doesn't handle bad. I
rode my buddy's Vulcan 1500, and my 1200 was definitely easier riding (and
WAY smoother). I didn't test handling at the limit, but I really preferred
the 1200, despite it being 15 years older.
OTOH, I'm not a typical Winger - I like to drag the pegs (or is it the
center stand?) in the corners..... seems like I usually feel the tire going
over onto the sidewall......
--
'92 Dak CC 2wd 318 3.55
'84 GoldWing Interstate
Brian McLaughlin
>
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:23:07 -0500, "Jeff"
> <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >> If you are referring to the 500 triple, you are not
> >> correct. I recall Randy Renfrow (sp?) commenting on how
> >> his 250 times (1997) were about 10 seconds faster than
> >> his RS500 times at Road America. A Vtwin TZ is far
> >> better handling than the RS500 Honda.
>
> > It's been a long time since I rode that bike at Sears Point, but I thought
> > at the time it was a four-cylinder.
>
> The Suzuki 500 Gamma (RGV) was, I believe, a square four. Correct
> me if I'm wrong here, people.
Yes it was, but it didn't handle all that well.
randy hesser
to ramp up. It was designated RG. RGV is the V4 engine and its chassis was
not known for handling either.
Saddlebag
at the mouth have probably never ridden one, or at least not long enough to
become properly acquainted.
Someone mentioned that the GW doesn't have the ground clearance a sport bike
has, and while that may be true, with the shocks full of air it has plenty to
ride with almost anyone on public roads (provided they are not too straight, as
the GW definetly does not have the acceleration of modern sportbikes).
When I first picked up my current bike Duc ST4, on my way home with it I
thought to myself that I could actually ride the Wing faster. The steering
seemed slow and the throttle response choppy. This caused minor throttle
adjustments to throw me off line in corners.
After properly preloading the rear and finding a good aftermarket FI chip, the
Duc is without a doubt the better back road blitzer, but still the handling
difference to me isn't like a 1 vs a 10, maybe a 1 vs 4, with some lowered
Harley being a 10.
Old Biker
From "Motorcyclist", an F4 (the man's current ride) does the
quarter in 11.61 seconds, the R11S in 12.67, and the Wing in
13.5 whilst sport tourers such as Ducati's ST-4 (which even come
with bags) do it in 11.03. By these figures the R1100S is
clearly far more akin to the Wing than to Duc's Sport Tourer
(ST).
(LOL)
Mr. Knowitall
I'm sorry, but I have to call you on those numbers. Motorcyclist
(2/99) reports a 10.86 for the CBR600F4, and other magazines report
low 11s. Motorcyclist (2/01) reports 12.78 for the GL1800. I didn't
search any further through my stack of Motorcyclist. From the
Motorcycle Consumer News "Test Bike Index", 6/00:
BMW R1100S 11.78
Ducati ST4 11.02
Honda CBR600F4 11.19
And, I fail to see how quarter-mile times--especially in such a narrow
range--are relevant to the original posters stated objective:
> I am looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and
> not have to take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten
> out. Having said that though, I do not want to give up the "sports"
> feel and performance I have grown accustomed too from the F4.
--
Mr. Knowitall
Whatsmatta U.
Nicholas Weaver
>> looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and not have to
>> take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten out. Having said
>> that though, I do not want to give up the "sports" feel and performance I
>> have grown accustomed too from the F4.
One other possibility is look at the following larger sportbikes and
superstandards, and see which ones you fit comfortably on within your
ergonomic range:
Superhawk, Interceptor, Blackbird, ZX12-R, Bandit 1200
Then tack on about $1000 for the price of a Scott Oiler and a set of
Corbin's BeatleBags, and you have a very sporty sport tourer.
--
Nicholas C. Weaver nwe...@cs.berkeley.edu
Some Guy on a Bike
<know...@whatsmatta.edu> wrote:
> Mr. Knowitall
> Whatsmatta U.
You don't live in the Albany, NY area, do you?
Onethumb
Your numbers for the Wing need to be updated. That Wing is no longer in
production. Check out the recent Motorcyclist Mag for speeds on the
current production Wing.
Something about it being fast accelerating than a Lambourgini Diablo...
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
Iron Butt Associate Member #3000
Right Rev. Royal Bellhop CM#01
Old Biker
>
> I'm sorry, but I have to call you on those numbers. Motorcyclist
> (2/99) reports a 10.86 for the CBR600F4, and other magazines report
> low 11s. Motorcyclist (2/01) reports 12.78 for the GL1800. I didn't
> search any further through my stack of Motorcyclist. From the
> Motorcycle Consumer News "Test Bike Index", 6/00:
>
> BMW R1100S 11.78
> Ducati ST4 11.02
> Honda CBR600F4 11.19
>
> > I am looking for a bike I can nail 500-600 mile weekenders on and
> > not have to take work off on Monday because my back won't straighten
> > out. Having said that though, I do not want to give up the "sports"
> > feel and performance I have grown accustomed too from the F4.
Based on his last sentance I recommended he eschew the R1100S
because its performance is more like a Gold Wing than what he's
"grown accustomed too" and poorer than sport tourers of
comparable cost and displacement ... right?
Mr. Knowitall
> Mr. Knowitall wrote:
>
>> Mr. Knowitall
>> Whatsmatta U.
>
> You don't live in the Albany, NY area, do you?
Frostbite Falls, Minnesota. Don't know your 'toons, do you?
--
Mr. Knowitall
Whatsamatta U.
Some Guy on a Bike
<know...@whatsamatta.edu> wrote:
>>> Mr. Knowitall
>>> Whatsmatta U.
>> You don't live in the Albany, NY area, do you?
> Frostbite Falls, Minnesota. Don't know your 'toons, do you?
I have a friend in Albany who goes by that moniker IRL.
Of course, maybe you're FROM Frostbite Falls, and just LIVING in
Albany...
Jeff
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> My '97 1500 handled splendidly.
Pretty much what my grandfather used to say about his 1958 Cadillac Coupe de
Ville.
Jeff
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> Handling is hard to quantify so lets compare numbers instead.
Since when has straight-line performance had anything to do with handling?
Jeff
Jeff
"Some Guy on a Bike" <som...@somewhere.u.cant.reach> wrote in message
news:3a6895c2...@196.1.1.1...
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:26:12 GMT, Mr. Knowitall
> <know...@whatsmatta.edu> wrote:
>
> > Mr. Knowitall
> > Whatsmatta U.
>
> You don't live in the Albany, NY area, do you?
That would be WMU--Western Michigan University, IIRC.
Jeff
Jeff
"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
> Based on his last sentance I recommended he eschew the R1100S
> because its performance is more like a Gold Wing than what he's
> "grown accustomed too" and poorer than sport tourers of
> comparable cost and displacement ... right?
Wrong. We've been telling you that, but you refuse to listen. Since you've
never ridden an S you are talking through your proverbial hat.
Jeff
Dan Nitschke
>
> Handling is hard to quantify so lets compare numbers instead.
OK. You have numbers about handling, since
that's what you were harping on?
> From "Motorcyclist", an F4 (the man's current ride) does the
> quarter in 11.61 seconds, the R11S in 12.67, and the Wing in
> 13.5 whilst sport tourers such as Ducati's ST-4 (which even come
> with bags) do it in 11.03.
No! Not at all!
Thanks for playing "Who Wants To Post A Non Sequitur"!
Your million dollars is in email.
--
/* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
Dan Nitschke }{ peDA...@idiom.com }{ (.....)@(......).net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But tomorrow's a dream away, and today has turned to dust;
your silver tongue has turned to clay and your golden rule
to rust. -- Jim Croce, "One Less Set of Footsteps"
Jeff Goss
>
> > Really tempting, I'll have to at least try a real ride
> > sometime.
>
> Do that. BMW is really good about test rides.
Sounds good to me. Hopefully coming in as a BMW car owner already (2000
323i) will get me the keys even quicker.
>
> > Fortunately, they seem to be a little cheaper here by
> > conversion rates than in the US, but it's still a lot of money to plonk
> > on a bike.
>
> Yeah, it is. Either you like it and it's worth that
> much to you, or it isn't. It isn't cheap.
Same thing with the car - but I spend a lot of time in that as well and
didn't see the point in saving a few cents a mile for an econobox. I
love the attention to detail in their cars, and it sounds like this
carries over to the bikes as well. The R1100S here starts at about 20%
more than a Blackbird, which I'd also consider as a replacement bike.
>
> > I'd need to be sure about all day comfort and wind
> > protection.
>
> It works for me just fine, but that's a very subjective
> thing. Some people find the R1100S doesn't fit them;
> some find it fits just great. Give it a try.
I think there are some differences in the latest models depending on
whether you get the sport or touring option wrt handlebar placement,
bags, and windscreen.
>
> > I've also heard a lot of comments on the buzziness of these
> > bikes. My ZX-6 is smooth as silk and I've gotten used to not having to
> > bring various parts of my anatomy back to life after a long ride.
>
> I've never had a problem with the vibration, and I'm
> kinda sensitive to it, having torched muscles in my
> back, hips and legs before.
> --
>
> /* dan: The Anti-Ged -- Scary Git, IY (tm) #1, YJP #1, LCDB (tm) #1 */
>
> Dan Nitschke := peDA...@idiom.com =: (.)@(.....).net
> =.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=.=
> And if the road he's taken isn't leading anywhere, he
> seems to be completely unaware. -Alan Parsons Project
--
Thanks.
Jeff Goss
Timberwoof
<myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
Since about the same time that "comparing numbers" is an alternative to
discussing things you've quantified. }: )
--
Timberwoof <timberwoof at infernosoft dot com> Chief Perpetrator
Infernosoft: Putting the No in Innovation. http://www.infernosoft.com
"The opposite of hardware is not easyware."
Steve Makohin
>Dan Nitschke wrote:
>>
>> While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
>> 900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
>> an absurd level.
>
>Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
>than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked. Of course BMW
>NA will gladly tell you it isn't so. That's why the R1100S is
>winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
>as the F4 right? .... ;o)
On the track, where small differences make the difference between first
and second place, many sports bikes will handily beat the R1100S. On the
street, with a more skilled rider on a GSX-R750, a motorcycle review wrote
that the Gixxer could not shake the big Bavarian (width saddle bags, no
less) from his mirrors.
I spend my time on the street, and my R1100S is an absolute dream to ride,
both aggressively (as much as you can on public roads), as well as riding
for 8 hours on a sunny Sunday (taking time to fuel up and whiz every 250
km).
-Steve Makohin | Remove "ANTISPAM" from email
| address before replying.
Steve Makohin
<myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
>"Old Biker" <enf...@3n.net> wrote in message
>
>> Dan Nitschke wrote:
>> >
>> > While the R1100S is more touring oriented than the
>> > 900SS, "think Gold Wing" is overstating the case to
>> > an absurd level.
>
>> Oh, I dunno Dan; IMHO BMs -all BMs- handle more like Gold Wings
>> than like the 600cc F4 he's been riding and liked.
>
>Then your humble opinion is silly and wrong. I'll be tickled to give you a
>demonstration. Got access to an F4? If you can beat my friend Mac on his
>stock R11S with an F4, I'll supply your beer and liquor requirements for the
>rest of the year. Deal? (Don't believe everything you read in Sport Rider,
>and don't be mislead by bike weight, etc.)
>
>>Of course BMW
>> NA will gladly tell you it isn't so.
>
>As will you, yourself, following the above eye-opening demonstration.
>
>>That's why the R1100S is
>> winning so many more races than the Gold Wing - almost as many
>> as the F4 right? .... ;o)
>
>Since the BMW R11S is not raced much on this continent (USA) no one would
>know. Another silly comment.
>
>The S is a lot better handler and more potent than you might realize. It is
>far more toward the *sport* end of sport touring than the *touring* end. If
>it weren't, I wouldn't own one.
Hey Jeff, as I recall, you owned *BOTH* a new Ducati and an R1100S for a
while, and eventually sold your Ducati in favor of the Beemer citing that
the Ducati, although a great track bike, wasn't as wonderful as the R1100S
as an "all around" and primarily street bike. No?
I don't have the fortune to be able to make your kind of comparison, but I
can say from experience that the R1100S is an impressively potent sport
bike on the street, and a capable tourer as well.
Steve Makohin
On the subject of being akin to something else based on numbers, humans
and chimps share almost 98% identical DNA. Humans and flies share over
60%. So based on these numbers alone, humans are pretty similar to flies,
and virtually indistinguishable from chimpanzees ;-)
Raw numbers also tell you that the latest Corvette outperforms a Ferrari
348 in every regard, and is much less expensive. In spite of that, most
auto enthusiasts ache for a Ferrari over the 'Vette. Dumb car buffs,
wanting the crappy car over the better one ;-)
Larry at will-contests.com
"Steve Makohin" <WaterEdg...@interlog.com> wrote in message
> Raw numbers also tell you that the latest Corvette outperforms a Ferrari
> 348 in every regard, and is much less expensive. In spite of that, most
> auto enthusiasts ache for a Ferrari over the 'Vette. Dumb car buffs,
> wanting the crappy car over the better one ;-)
And maybe not JUST raw numbers.
Larry
00 929
99 Corvette C5 Convertible
Saddlebag
>Ville.
>
>Jeff
>
A wise man, that grandfather of yours.
Jeff
"Steve Makohin" <WaterEdg...@interlog.com> wrote in message
> Hey Jeff, as I recall, you owned *BOTH* a new Ducati and an R1100S for a
> while, and eventually sold your Ducati in favor of the Beemer citing that
> the Ducati, although a great track bike, wasn't as wonderful as the R1100S
> as an "all around" and primarily street bike. No?
Yup. Old Biker, however, wasn't impressed. He still thinks our Ss are more
in line with (solid) Gold Wings in terms of performance and handling.
"There is none so blind . . ."
> I don't have the fortune to be able to make your kind of comparison, but I
> can say from experience that the R1100S is an impressively potent sport
> bike on the street, and a capable tourer as well.
We've pointed that out, Steve. Actually OB is probably our best ally. He's
played the devil's advocate (or perhaps the devil himself), giving us the
opportunity to defend and promote the S. I believe at least one other NG
reader is considering buying one. He will be very please, IMO.
As an aside, I saw my "old" 996S the other day--it is essentially a 996SPS
now, and it has all the bells and whistles, including a rather aggressive
fuel-injection map chip which makes it run much better on the top end. Wish
I could have kept it, but it was an expensive toy for rare track use.
Jeff
Jeff
"Saddlebag" <sadd...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >Pretty much what my grandfather used to say about his 1958 Cadillac Coupe
de
> >Ville.
> A wise man, that grandfather of yours.
Considering that he never drove over 35mph in those Vermont hills and
valley, I suppose he was. Now Grandma, on the other hand, drove that boat
like a Porsche on a mission. She truly frightened me.
Jeff
Rick Damiani
>Raw numbers also tell you that the latest Corvette outperforms a Ferrari
>348 in every regard, and is much less expensive. In spite of that, most
>auto enthusiasts ache for a Ferrari over the 'Vette. Dumb car buffs,
>wanting the crappy car over the better one ;-)
Everyone I have ever seen in a 348 was a prick. That high prick factor
keeps me from wanting one. I'd take the 'vette.
HTH.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast ..................... Rick Damiani
and no one will talk to a host that's close .... ri...@nospam.paton.com
Unless the host (that isn't close) ......... ri...@nospam.earthlink.net
is busy, hung or dead ..............................NGI# T695 DoD #2659
'99 Triumph Sprint ST (Guppy) ....... '86 Yamaha Radian (Fire Breather)
Onethumb
> played the devil's advocate (or perhaps the devil himself), giving us the
> opportunity to defend and promote the S. I believe at least one other NG
> reader is considering buying one. He will be very please, IMO.
With the transmission/drive shaft/rear hub failures at around 30k miles
or with the the 3 month wait to get replacement parts in country?
--
Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas
Iron Butt Association Member #3000
Right Rev. Royal Bellhop CM #0001
DoD #2021; onethumb at swbell dot net
"Paranoia is a disease unto itself. And, may I add,
the person standing next to you may not be who they
appear to be. So take precautions." - Primus
svrider
to lose the battle and war.
--
"If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You have another chance."
ANDREA BOYDSTON
"Jeff" <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:94cp4q$k9o$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Jeff
"Onethumb" <bow...@airmail.net> wrote in message
> With the transmission/drive shaft/rear hub failures at around 30k miles
> or with the the 3 month wait to get replacement parts in country?
Beg pardon? Never heard anything about this. Or is this one of those old
things that affected older airheads and so naturally you apply them to all
BMWs, regardless of age?
Jeff
Jeff
"svrider" <tom...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> No need to be frightened. Whatever gets hit by a 58 Coupe De Ville is
going
> to lose the battle and war.
Mountains? Rivers? I don't think so. :-0
Jeff
Jeff
"Timberwoof" <sp...@spam.spam> wrote in message
> In article <94ag5d$c8a$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff"
> <myst...@NSmindspring.com> wrote:
> > Since when has straight-line performance had anything to do with
handling?
> Since about the same time that "comparing numbers" is an alternative to
> discussing things you've quantified. }: )
Sounds like a UK plot to me. ;-)
Jeff