Army lowers standards, ups bonuses, and Fights parents for recruits.
Omega
that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
Army lowers standards, ups bonuses
RECRUITERS FALLING SHORT OF GOALS IN FACE OF IRAQ WAR
By Joseph L. Galloway
KNIGHT RIDDER WASHINGTON BUREAU
WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army probably will come up well short of the 80,000
new recruits it needs during fiscal 2005, despite adding a thousand more
recruiters, boosting enlistment cash bonuses to a record $20,000, spending $200
million on upbeat television ads and beginning to lower its standards.
Easing the strict standards that made the all-volunteer force such a
success -- in effect, trading quality for quantity -- could complicate the
Pentagon's ambitious plans to transform the Army into an agile, high-tech force
in which ordinary soldiers are better equipped to act fast without waiting for
orders from above.
Creating that force "will require more ability and more competence, not
less, for the soldier in tomorrow's Army," said retired Lt. Gen. Marc Cisneros
of Corpus Christi, Texas.
"More troubling to me is the fact that lowering standards impacts on a
moral issue," Cisneros said. "If young people aren't enlisting, that tells me we
are not doing the right thing over there (in Iraq). If our leaders can't see
that, the damage will go deeper than it did in Vietnam."
Army recruiters have failed to meet their targets for four straight
months, beginning in February, and have just four months before their fiscal
year ends Sept. 30 to sign up almost half of their annual goal. Many recruiters
privately question whether they can succeed.
The recruiting shortfalls for the Army Reserve and National Guard -- which
have been called to active duty at a pace unseen since World War II and now make
up more than 40 percent of American forces in Iraq -- are as bad as or worse
than those for the active Army.
What to do next
If the shortfalls continue, the government could be forced eventually to
consider abandoning the nation's 32-year experiment with the all-volunteer
military, which came into being as the United States withdrew from an unpopular
war in Vietnam and ended an unpopular draft.
The shortfall in recruits also is making it harder for the Army to raise
its total strength from 480,000 to 510,000 soldiers so it can man the new
modular brigades that are at the heart of the plans for a lighter, more flexible
force.
Some lawmakers have proposed increasing Army "end strength" by 50,000 or
100,000 or even 150,000, which appears to be ambitious at a time when the Army
can't find enough recruits to maintain current troop levels.
'Problem ... is parents'
Another increasingly unpopular war, in Iraq, is largely responsible for
making it harder for Army recruiters to find 80,000 more young Americans who are
willing to serve their country from a pool of some 60 million candidates ages 18
to 35.
"The biggest problem today is parents," said Staff Sgt. Kenneth Bishop, an
Iraq war-veteran recruiter based in High Ridge, Mo. "A lot of young men and
women want to enlist, but their parents are afraid for them."
Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq. Frankly,
percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out here."
Although the summer months traditionally provide recruiters with an
abundance of prospects, they concede that this could be a different and
difficult season.
During May, even though the Army cut that month's goal from 8,050 to
6,700, recruiters shipped just 5,039 new recruits to basic training, 25 percent
short of the more modest target. Without lowering the target, the shortfall
would have been 37 percent.
Bonuses raised
One Army recruiting official, who asked that his name be withheld because
he isn't authorized to talk to reporters, said the May recruiting numbers would
have been even worse had the Army not offered to boost enlistment bonuses to the
maximum of $20,000 for delayed-entry recruits who volunteered to report a month
or two early for training, by a deadline of May 30. "That is just robbing Peter
to pay Paul. There will be a hole somewhere down the line this summer," he said.
"The bottom line, in my view, is we are going to need some sort of
national service, a draft, to get the people we need," the official said. "I
don't see what else we can do."
The official also told Knight Ridder that the recruiting shortfalls are
having an effect on basic training schools.
"Since March, they have canceled 15 basic training classes for the
infantry at Fort Benning," the official said. "They did not have the soldiers,
220 to 230 of them, for each of those classes. Now they will begin processing
smaller classes of 180 to 190."
He said basic training schools also were beginning to receive recruits who
wouldn't have been allowed to enlist a year ago because they didn't meet Army
standards.
"They are seeing a few Cat IV's," he said. Category IV is the lowest
acceptable level on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery.
"They are getting more GEDs (General Educational Development certificates)
in place of high school graduates. They are paying bonuses to get people who
wouldn't have qualified before," he said.
Higher retention rate
The one bright spot, Army spokesmen point out, is what they call the
retention rate, the number of soldiers who choose to re-enlist and remain on
active duty. They say that to date the Army has exceeded its retention goal by
107 percent. The figure is driven by many choosing the Army as a career.
Some divisions and brigades that rotated back into Iraq and Afghanistan
earlier this year for second or third combat tours went with 60 percent combat
veterans in their ranks -- and some units were returning to Iraq after less than
nine months at home.
But the unceasing rotations are wearing down soldiers and their families.
Corporate headhunters are finding that more captains and majors are turning up
to learn what's available in the civilian world because they see only an endless
string of combat deployments if they don't get out.
The Army confirmed recently that statistics show that divorce among Army
officers has tripled since 2000, with a 75 percent increase in 2004 alone. The
divorce rate among enlisted soldiers is up 75 percent.
Army advertising spots are shifting their focus to include parents as well
as potential recruits. The Army's lead ad agency, Leo Burnett USA, has created
four new TV commercials revolving around the theme: "Help Them Find Their
Strength." A news release says, "Both the parent and child become the hero."
Draft possibility looms
If this trend continues into next year, or if another war erupts in some
other hot spot, the country may find itself forced to return to the draft.
When America stopped drafting young men in 1973, it didn't abolish the
vast Selective Service machinery that scooped up 15 million young men to fight
in World War II and more than 20,000 a month to fight in Vietnam.
It's all still in place, and American men still are required to register
with Selective Service on their 18th birthdays or soon after. Failing to do so
is a felony, and those who don't register can't obtain federal student loans or,
in many states, even driver's licenses.
It would take an act of Congress to crank up the whole thing, starting
with local draft boards, which are still manned by unpaid volunteer appointees
prepared to choose who in their neighborhoods will receive the letters that
begin: "Greetings! Your friends and neighbors have selected you ... "
The Pentagon said in a news release Friday that it had "no intention of
supporting a draft" in spite of the recruiting shortfalls.
Right now, everyone involved in such a decision is publicly opposed to
reviving the draft. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has declared repeatedly
that the draft is an inefficient and costly way to man a modern military force.
Congress voted overwhelmingly, with only two yes votes, to kill last year's bill
to reinstitute the draft.
Its author, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said he'd introduce it again this
year.
Omega
Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
By Frank E. Lockwood
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
The president of Gold Star Families for Peace, a mother who lost a son in
Iraq, criticized the United States' "illegal and unjust war" yesterday during an
interfaith rally in Lexington.
Cindy Sheehan of Vacaville, Calif., accused President Bush of lying to the
nation about a war which has consumed tens of billions of dollars and claimed
more than 1,700 American lives -- including the life of Army Specialist Casey
Austin Sheehan.
Sheehan was one of more than a dozen activists who were scheduled to speak
at yesterday's anti-war rally at the Red Mile, which was organized by the Clergy
and Laity Network and co-sponsored by dozens of liberal religious organizations.
Sheehan ridiculed Bush for saying that it's "hard work" comforting the
widow of a soldier who's been killed in Iraq.
"Hard work is seeing your son's murder on CNN one Sunday evening while
you're enjoying the last supper you'll ever truly enjoy again. Hard work is
having three military officers come to your house a few hours later to confirm
the aforementioned murder of your son, your first-born, your kind and gentle
sweet baby. Hard work is burying your child 46 days before his 25th birthday.
Hard work is holding your other three children as they lower the body of their
big (brother) into the ground. Hard work is not jumping in the grave with him
and having the earth cover you both," she said.
Since her son's death, Sheehan has made opposition to the Bush
administration a full-time job.
"We're watching you very carefully and we're going to do everything in our
power to have you impeached for misleading the American people," she said,
quoting a letter she sent to the White House. "Beating a political stake in your
black heart will be the fulfillment of my life ... ," she said, as the audience
of 200 people cheered.
The "Freedom and Faith Bus Tour" -- which brought Sheehan to Lexington,
has already visited New York, Chicago and Indianapolis. The next stops include
Columbus, Pittsburgh and Cleveland.
Other speakers included state Rep. Kathy Stein, D-Lexington, Clergy and
Laity Network executive director Rev. Albert Pennybacker of Lexington, Kentucky
Council of Churches executive director Nancy Jo Kemper and Baptist Seminary of
Kentucky Professor Glenn Hinson.
Quoting scripture and Franklin D. Roosevelt, Hinson suggested the nation
is greedy and morally bankrupt and warned that America's fear of terrorism is
excessive and unhealthy. Denouncing "fear that immobilizes, fear that causes you
to lash out mindlessly, fear that prompts a nation to launch a preemptive strike
against an imagined enemy, fear in excess," Hinson said, "Only God's love can
bring that kind of fear under control."
Reach Frank Lockwood at (859) 231-3211 or 800-950-6397 x3211 or
floc...@herald-leader.com
Omega
sons by being over protective....
JOAN VENNOCHI
To a son who wants to serve
By Joan Vennochi, Globe Columnist | June 14, 2005
WITH A LEARNER'S permit in his wallet, a 16-year-old starts thinking about the
future. ''Mom, what would you say if I wanted to join the Army?" my son asked
the other day.
''I would strongly discourage it," I answered calmly, after a quick mental
search for the appropriate response to such an unexpected query.
''Why? Don't you want me to serve my country?" replied the teenager, whose most
recent career goal involved sportscasting.
He was in the driver's seat, so it seemed like a good time to remind him to keep
his eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel. In short, I dodged his
question. It scared me, even more than his still-evolving driving skills.
Soon he was onto the more frivolous topics of routine mother-son conversation --
his next meal and his first car. But the way he framed the earlier discussion
stayed with me.
It was easier to say don't join the Army; it was harder to say don't serve your
country.
As any student of the Bill Clinton era, I could argue that ''serving your
country" depends on the definition of ''serve." You can serve your country in
many ways: teach, be an advocate for the underprivileged, or, on the flip side,
strive to be a highly successful capitalist and help the country's economy. Buy
a big house and a fancy car. Follow your dreams -- just don't sign up for
anything that involves blowing up an alleged enemy and possibly yourself. Go to
ESPN, not Baghdad, my precious son.
From a strictly intellectual perspective, those who oppose the invasion and
continuing occupation of Iraq can argue it is patriotic to speak out against a
war that should never have been waged.
We can tell our sons and daughters that they also serve their country well by
questioning a war, not only by fighting in it. That is, after all, the
underlying rationale of the Vietnam protest generation. But a soldier's heroism
in following orders and facing death is more romantic. Those who oppose war are
derided as unpatriotic. John Kerry's plans to run for president as a war hero
were undercut by his antiwar activities after he returned from Vietnam. To sell
a book, actress Jane Fonda is apologizing for antiwar actions and words that
earned her the title ''Hanoi Jane."
Military recruitment is down. The Army just reported that it has fallen short of
its recruitment goals for a fourth consecutive month. The Marines met their May
recruitment target, their first successful month this year. The numbers tell a
story about a war that is growing more unpopular with the country, especially
with parents whose flesh and blood the Pentagon covets. If the US military
presence in Iraq continues at its current level and enough citizens do not
volunteer for military service, a draft seems inevitable. In the meantime, the
tally of dead US soldiers grows.
The country as a whole tries to avoid their stories. Every so often, the dead
break through the junk about Michael Jackson, Russell Crowe, Brad Pitt, and
Angelina Jolie. Flipping through radio stations the other day, I was drawn into
an NPR report about a soldier from the state of Washington who died in Iraq.
Expecting to be home soon, he had signed up for courses in a local community
college. His dad spoke about his last time home. They wore matching shirts and
posed for pictures. His son believed in the war; to deal with his death, his dad
said he did, too -- for now. Listening to that father mourn, I cried. Listening
to that father mourn, I also thought: not my son. It is a typical baby boomer
reaction, in my case, underscored by the belief that this current war does not
justify the sacrifice of any son or daughter of America.
The children of the Greatest Generation who did not want to die in Vietnam do
not want their children, the grandchildren of the Greatest Generation, to die in
Iraq. The attitude is, not my son or daughter, not this war.
Yet understanding history means understanding that countries are born, survive,
and flourish because individuals are willing to die for them.
A citizen honors the sacrifice of fellow citizens.
A parent whispers selfishly, please, not my child; not in this war, not in any
war. The future beyond a driver's license is scary enough.
Joan Vennochi's e-mail address is venn...@globe.com.
LawsonE
"Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:%_Mre.51427$_o.9328@attbi_s71...
> In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
> difficult is
> that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
>
> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
>
> Army lowers standards, ups bonuses
> RECRUITERS FALLING SHORT OF GOALS IN FACE OF IRAQ WAR
> By Joseph L. Galloway
> KNIGHT RIDDER WASHINGTON BUREAU
>
> WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army probably will come up well short of the
> 80,000
> new recruits it needs during fiscal 2005, despite adding a thousand more
> recruiters, boosting enlistment cash bonuses to a record $20,000, spending
> $200
> million on upbeat television ads and beginning to lower its standards.
>
> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
> Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
> daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
> Frankly,
> percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out here."
>
That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
probably believes what he said.
Mike P
> In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become difficult is
> that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult.
Even after they turn 18 they want to control their children. Yet those
same persons can vote, and do most everything else a adult can do. To
include being judged as an adult in a Court of Law. I feel sorry for them.
Mike
Mike P
> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
>
> Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
> PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
> By Frank E. Lockwood
> HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
Which is her right. So what?
Mike
LawsonE
"Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:52Ore.11561$lb5.1330@trnddc04...
If a child asks advice from a parent, and the parent believes something is
wrong, should they keep their mouth shut?
Mike P
>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
>>Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
>>daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
>>Frankly,
>>percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out here."
>>
>
>
> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
> probably believes what he said.
How many people have died on our Freeways this year compared to how many
of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
Mike
Mike P
No, but the statement was Mothers were preventing them from joining. Not
that they were asking about joining. I may give my children my views if
they asked, but they are adults that make up their own minds on what
they do.
Mike
LawsonE
He said "percentage-wise." If you count all injuries, he's correct.
California freeways have more traffic injuries per licensed driver than
Iraqi soldiers have wounds. However, a huge portion of Iraqi WIA's are
seriously wounded, even crippled for life and the stats for CA that I can
find don't break down that way.. The stats for deaths are as follows.
Roughly 137,000 US Army are in Iraq right now.
http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/military/history/hst1204.pdf
KIA for the Army (which the recruiter recruits for) have ranged between 31
and 125 over the past 12 months.
http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf
In California, in 2002, there were over 22 million licensed drivers
There were between 270 and 411 traffic fatalities per month in 2002.
.http://www.chp.ca.gov/pdf/2002-sec1.pdf
31/137,000 = .02% per month KIA on the low end to
125/137,000 = ..09% per month KIA on the high end in Iraq each month.
270/22,000,000 = .0012% on the low end to
411/22,000,000 = .0018% deaths per month on the high end due to traffic
accidents in CA.
Mike P
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:27:17 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult. Even
>>>after they turn 18 they want to control their children.
>
>
> their children to die for a cause that is not moral.
>
Seems you can't read as well. I wrote that, and not Larson. I do have
children, and I couldn't care less what you have to say other than to
laugh at you. Your great lack of knowledge of the Military, and this
Country is outstanding. Perhaps one day you may wish to finish grade
school so you can go on with your education, and until that time I will
allow you to play by your self. Now notice what I said. It wasn't with
your self, but by your self.
Mike
Omega
It may be her right. But she is also a fool.
Too many want to blame someone, something. Thus we have MADD and every other
activist group pushing laws to deal with their grief. So do we make laws based
on emotional mothers grieving? Is that the basis for electing leaders?
Is her blaming the president going to bring her son back? Would he have
disagreed with her?
Mike P
>>news:52Ore.11561$lb5.1330@trnddc04...
>>
>>>Omega wrote:
>>>
>>>>In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
>>>>difficult is that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
>>>
>>>What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult. Even
>>>after they turn 18 they want to control their children. Yet those same
>>>persons can vote, and do most everything else a adult can do. To include
>>>being judged as an adult in a Court of Law. I feel sorry for them.
>
>
>>If a child asks advice from a parent, and the parent believes something is
>>wrong, should they keep their mouth shut?
Again you are responding to me, and not Larson. Were you born this way
or did you learn to be so stupid? Perhaps the Doctor thought you were
the after birth, and did damage to you by dropping you into the throw
away can. The results are the same I also feel sorry for you.
Mike
BTW I have more time in the Latrine than you have been alive. If you can
call your self being alive that is.
Omega
"LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a_Nre.6116$i81.1609@fed1read05...
:
: "Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
It is more dangerous on US highways than being in Iraq. We kill 42,000 persons
every year due to highway deaths. We have a family here who is upset because
their son was killed in a drunk driving accident (he and his friend were drunk).
So the family is all hot to make more laws to ease their grief?
Do we pass laws because we are emotional? Is that the best way?
LawsonE
If parents give permission, can't an underage kid join at 17? MY mother was
horrified that I joined the USAF. We had several fights about it. I was
living away from home by then, but every time she saw me, she tried to talk
me out of it. If I were living at home, it would have been difficult to cut
the strings, I'm sure, but I doubt that Mothers can stop kids from joining
once they are 18 if the kid really wants to join.
LawsonE
"enialle" <eni...@punkass.com> wrote in message
news:h4fva19gum5nlbs14...@4ax.com...
>>> Even
>>> after they turn 18 they want to control their children.
>
> their children to die for a cause that is not moral.
watch who you quote.
>
Omega
:
: "Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
We kill 42,000 per year (as reported in the USA Today this week) on our
highways.
BTW, the 1700 deaths in Iraq covers several years and in that time we have had
somewhere close to 500,000 troops (counting Navy and AF) in the Iraq theater.
LawsonE
>
> "Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:v3Ore.11933$tY4.7164@trnddc06...
> : Omega wrote:
> : > Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
> : >
> : > Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
> : > PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
> : > By Frank E. Lockwood
> : > HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
> :
> : Which is her right. So what?
> :
> : Mike
>
> It may be her right. But she is also a fool.
>
> Too many want to blame someone, something. Thus we have MADD and every
> other
> activist group pushing laws to deal with their grief. So do we make laws
> based
> on emotional mothers grieving? Is that the basis for electing leaders?
>
What do you call invading Iraq after 9/11?
Omega
: > : > Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
: > : >
: > : > Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
: > : > PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
: > : > By Frank E. Lockwood
: > : > HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
: > :
: > : Which is her right. So what?
: > :
: > : Mike
: >
: > It may be her right. But she is also a fool.
: >
: > Too many want to blame someone, something. Thus we have MADD and every
: > other activist group pushing laws to deal with their grief. So do we make
laws
: > based on emotional mothers grieving? Is that the basis for electing
leaders?
: >
:
: What do you call invading Iraq after 9/11?
A sensible policy, something that should have been done years ago.
: > Is her blaming the president going to bring her son back? Would he have
: > disagreed with her?
: >
: >
:
:
LawsonE
He said percentage-wise. If he is counting all injuries, he is correct, at
least for CA (and I assume the rest of the country). However, highway deaths
per licensed driver in CA are far lower than deaths per Army personnel in
Iraq.
Omega
"enialle" <eni...@punkass.com> wrote in message
news:h4fva19gum5nlbs14...@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:27:17 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
: wrote:
: >> What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult. Even
: >> after they turn 18 they want to control their children.
: Obviously you don't have children it seems. It MEANS they do not want
: their children to die for a cause that is not moral.
It means that they do not want their children to die, period! That they would
rather convert to Islam than have their children fight in ANY war.
During Vietnam the typical family size was about 4 children (many families had 5
to 6). Thus a single death, while painful, was only a portion of your family.
Now days most people have 1 or 2 children so that a death could be half, or all,
of your family.
Plus many mothers want their sons, due to feminism, to be emasculated. It is a
reaction to the hardnosed parenting of the WW2 generation.
LawsonE
That's why I went by month. The first 2 or 3 months in Iraq had the lowest
casualty rates of the entire conflict. It heated up after that and has
stayed high ever since.
Anyone enlisting NOW, will be part of the ongoing statistics, not the "major
combat operation" statistics.
>
Gunner
wrote:
He should. Its true.
Gunner
"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown
Omega
: >> In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
: >> difficult is that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
: >>
: >> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
: >>
: >> Army lowers standards, ups bonuses
: >> RECRUITERS FALLING SHORT OF GOALS IN FACE OF IRAQ WAR
: >> By Joseph L. Galloway
: >> KNIGHT RIDDER WASHINGTON BUREAU
: >>
: >> WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army probably will come up well short of the
: >> 80,000 new recruits it needs during fiscal 2005, despite adding a thousand
more
: >> recruiters, boosting enlistment cash bonuses to a record $20,000, spending
: >> $200 million on upbeat television ads and beginning to lower its standards.
: >>
: >[...]
: >> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
: >> Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
: >> daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
: >> Frankly, percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways
out here."
: >>
: >
: >That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
: >probably believes what he said.
: >
: >
: He should. Its true.
:
: Gunner
Army Times had an article some months back that covered the number of deaths of
service members since they returned. Given murders, auto accidents and other
hazards of US living, we have had over 3000 die since returning.
LawsonE
"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:3kgva1pe6k7uqgg8a...@4ax.com...
Iraq are pretty severe, resulting in at least 72 hours away from duty. I
can't find a similar breakdown of highway stats for CA.
LawsonE
Do you have the issue of that article?
La N
Welcome to "enialle" world, Mike, a bottomless pit of hatred,
jealousy, and bitterness.
- n'a
La N
Yes. I would like to see that article myself. That sounds pretty
extreme.
- n'a
Mike P
As there would be more accidents at any given day in Calif. than
Soldiers wounded in Iraq he would be right. Now to be fair you would
have to to take a Town with the same amount of people in it as there are
Soldiers in Iraq. Then sit back to see how many are hurt or killed.
Still it may not be really fair because you may have more hurt in one
day in an accident than hurt in a year in Iraq. The same may be true in
Iraq. It all depends on how you look at it, and how you add the numbers
at any given time. I could make the same kind of statement by saying
more people have been killed by smoking related deaths than were killed
in all the wars this Country has fought.
Mike
Mike P
She wouldn't be a fool, and to say she is one is wrong. Blaming is but
one stage when you lose someone you love. Pushing a law so others won't
have to go through the same thing like losing a child to a drunk driver
as you used MADD. Will help in this.
That someone used her words to try and make their limited point by
printing them to through in the Pres. face is also wrong. It would be
better to go after the reporter, and just say I'm sorry for your loss to
the Mother. No other words would help her, but you may be able to stop
the reporter from using another person like this.
Mike
Daryl Hunt
>
> "Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:v3Ore.11933$tY4.7164@trnddc06...
> : Omega wrote:
> : > Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
> : >
> : > Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
> : > PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
> : > By Frank E. Lockwood
> : > HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
> :
> : Which is her right. So what?
> :
> : Mike
>
> It may be her right. But she is also a fool.
>
I really don't drink Booze these days but I used to be a member of DAMM
(drunks against mad mothers)
Mike P
A person can go in at 17 is the parents sign, but they still have to
meet the requirments. They also can't go into a combat area until they
turn 18.
My Mother gave me a kiss, and said to do my best, but be careful. She
also told me I shouldn't go in, but it was up to me on how I want to live.
I know one person that was disowned by the the family for going in. He
was in my PLT, and killed. His Father never got over from what he had
said to his son before he left, and how he later treated him.
Mike
Mike P
I heard life can sometimes turn a person that way, but I find most of
the time the person is just afraid. Then striking out at anything they can.
Mike
Gunner
And is should be further noted that at the minimum...25% of those
deaths in Iraq are due to traffic accidents, drownings and so forth.
Omega
:
: "Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
No, the wife throws newspapers (Army Times is printed like a newspaper, and is
published by the same group that owns USA Today) away. I wish that I could
remember the month. I think it as late March, early April. Unfortunately,
since I do not subscribe to Army Times but pick it up at the PX (when I am by
one), I do not have access to the electronic version.
3000 is not an extreme number, given that there have been over 500,000 serve in
the Iraq theater.
edi...@netpath.net
>mothers are are preventing their sons from >joining.....
That's not the Army's real problem. NOTHING can keep any kid from
enlisting the day he turns 18 if he wants to - and certainly not Mom.
No more than Mom can keep now-adult Junior from marrying his girlfriend
on his 18th birthday.
The Army's REAL problem is that seemingly nobody really wants to
enlist - not that Mom won't let them!
No $4 to park! No $6 admission!
http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNET-GUN-SHOW
La N
Absolutely. And it's sad that people exploit a mother's grief for
political reasons.
- nilita
La N
There are really two basic emotions - love and fear. Fear often
manifests itself in lashing out at others and especially at other
people's happiness or other people's beliefs.
- nilita
Sid9
>>>>> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
>>>>>
>>>>> Mother of dead soldier vilifies Bush over war
>>>>> PRESIDENT RIDICULED AT INTERFAITH RALLY
>>>>> By Frank E. Lockwood
>>>>> HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
>>>>
>>>> Which is her right. So what?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>> It may be her right. But she is also a fool.
>>>
>>> Too many want to blame someone, something. Thus we have MADD and
>>> every other activist group pushing laws to deal with their grief.
>>> So do we make laws based on emotional mothers grieving? Is that
>>> the basis for electing leaders?
>>>
>>
>> What do you call invading Iraq after 9/11?
>
> A sensible policy, something that should have been done years ago.
>
A *stupid policy* because it did not target the enemy.
The enemies came from Saudi Arabia and were
supported with Saudi money, all friends of the Bush family.
Bush,jr attacked Iraq as a diversion from the real enemy.
The real enemy is untouched my this incompetant adminstration
HawkCW4
>
>>LawsonE wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
>>>>Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
>>>>daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
>>>>Frankly,
>>>>percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out
>>>>here."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
>>>probably believes what he said.
>>
>>
>>of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
>>
>
>
> He said "percentage-wise." If you count all injuries, he's correct.
> California freeways have more traffic injuries per licensed driver than
> Iraqi soldiers have wounds. However, a huge portion of Iraqi WIA's are
> seriously wounded, even crippled for life and the stats for CA that I can
> find don't break down that way.. The stats for deaths are as follows.
>
> Roughly 137,000 US Army are in Iraq right now.
>
> http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/military/history/hst1204.pdf
>
> KIA for the Army (which the recruiter recruits for) have ranged between 31
> and 125 over the past 12 months.
>
> http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf
>
> In California, in 2002, there were over 22 million licensed drivers
>
> There were between 270 and 411 traffic fatalities per month in 2002.
>
> .http://www.chp.ca.gov/pdf/2002-sec1.pdf
>
>
> 31/137,000 = .02% per month KIA on the low end to
> 125/137,000 = ..09% per month KIA on the high end in Iraq each month.
>
> 270/22,000,000 = .0012% on the low end to
> 411/22,000,000 = .0018% deaths per month on the high end due to traffic
> accidents in CA.
>
I may be a dumb redneck cowboy but I just don't see all that math doing
much for the kid still driving in California, Especialy in and around
Simi Valley.
The way I see it is this: It matters little how many are in Iraq, or in
California. The traffic in California is still there and as long as the
kid remains in California, he is subject to those possible Traffic
Deaths. Seems to me his best choice would be to run like hell for Iraq
where the chances of being killed deminish considrably.
Now don't go throwing more math at me, it hurts my head.
Ed
USA Ret
The mexican toilet@pinheads_r_us.info Hell
> I'm so funny I can make myself laugh!
Looks ain't everything.
Chris Hayes
Mike P wrote:
> enialle wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:27:17 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:52Ore.11561$lb5.1330@trnddc04...
> >>
> >>>Omega wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
> >>>>difficult is that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
> >>>
> >>>What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult. Even
> >>>after they turn 18 they want to control their children. Yet those same
> >>>persons can vote, and do most everything else a adult can do. To include
> >>>being judged as an adult in a Court of Law. I feel sorry for them.
> >
> >
> > when are you going to sign up for the war bubba?
> >
> >>If a child asks advice from a parent, and the parent believes something is
> >>wrong, should they keep their mouth shut?
>
> Again you are responding to me, and not Larson. Were you born this way
> or did you learn to be so stupid?
Oh, the irony! You're one of the most stupid people on Usenet and you
prove it every time you post.
That said, you shouldn't forget to take your thorazine.
Mike P
It's that more can afford to go on in their education compared to a few
years ago. There are also more jobs now for Grads than there was before,
and if they do join the Service after school they come in at a higher
Rank/Grade.
Mike
Mike P
snipped to make it shorter.
>>
>
> I may be a dumb redneck cowboy but I just don't see all that math doing
> much for the kid still driving in California, Especialy in and around
> Simi Valley.
>
> The way I see it is this: It matters little how many are in Iraq, or in
> California. The traffic in California is still there and as long as the
> kid remains in California, he is subject to those possible Traffic
> Deaths. Seems to me his best choice would be to run like hell for Iraq
> where the chances of being killed deminish considrably.
>
> Now don't go throwing more math at me, it hurts my head.
>
> Ed
> USA Ret
They really had fun with me. Going in at the Station I was told count
backwards by threes from a hundred. Did it no prob. Then do these math
problems that I tell you. OK. When they looked at my paper I had wrote
22 for when they said add two and two. They laughed at me, then asked
don't you know two and two is four? I said nope two and two is twenty
two sir. Two times two is four. They marked me for 11B, and said I would
make a good Officer.
Mike
Mike P
Why would I want to take your sister? Didn't you two get married like
your parents did or did they have you out of wedlock? Oh that's right
you said she married her brother by jumping over a stick. Sorry I
forgot. You know it's kind of easy to forget what you write most of the
time as you never have anything worth reading anyway. But don't let that
keep you from it. I'm sure one of these days you will find something
you know about, and can prove with something other than a saying from
PeeWee. Now you be a good little fella, and I'll get back to you after
your done playing with your self.
Mike
Mike P
>>>>>>Mike P writes:
>
>
> Mike> LawsonE wrote:
> >>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
> >>> Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
> >>> daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about
> >>> Iraq. Frankly,
> >>> percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out here."
> >>>
> >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
> >> Waud probably believes what he said.
>
>
> Mike> many of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
>
> Is this your first read of "How to Lie with Statistics"?
>
> You are not very good at it.
>
If it's wrong please prove it if you can.
Mike
enialle
Only idiots without kids or are shit for parents would willingly send a
man/women to a war based on lies.
Mike P
>
> It is not a valid way of measuring risk. There are far
> more drivers in the US than soldiers in Iraq.
>
> Being a soldier in Iraq is far more dangerous than driving
> in the US.
>
Is it? What are the odds? Lawson did a very good research on it, and you
should read what we have been talking about.
Mike
enialle
>Welcome to "enialle" world, Mike, a bottomless pit of hatred,
>jealousy, and bitterness.
--which, of course, is unlike Nil=0 posts which is a _different_ kind
of bottomless pit of hatred, and jealousy and bitterness like these
gems. Now students see if you see a pattern:
Message ID: bvjsgc$sun96$1...@ID-138339.news.uni-berlin.de
"Uh uh ... you're the dumb broad who spends an inordinate amount
of time talking about herself whilst spewing out age and appearance
flames about others." [referring to Sharen a nemisis in soc.singles]
Message-ID: <UI97e.22993$VF5.21832@edtnps89>
"Thanks for that, nins. Miguel is a bitter hateful person, and one can
only
hope that he finds some happiness for himself. It would require his
pushing
away from Usenet from time to time, but who knows ... stranger things
have happened .... right? ... ;) " [another of her nemises in
soc.singles]
Message-ID: <CpG3e.149034$gJ3.30220@clgrps13>
"caught on early in the game that Daryl is very jealous of Colin.
He is jealous not only of Colin's honourable military service and
intelligence but jealous also of the fact that Colin has unconditional
love and friendship in his life. Daryl's bitter attitude and
crackiness
would suggest that he has never himself had love or a friend upon
whom he could depend." [Oh! this is one of her UMA rants gainst daryl]
Message-ID: <w1uGd.101554$dv1.7443@edtnps89>
"I don't think Colin impresses "the girls" as much as he makes
you jealous, Daryl."
Message-ID: <A7Y7d.14267$223.1661@edtnps89>
"It doesn't insult me. It makes you look bad. It makes you sound like
the jealous harpy that you are." [regarding nins a very nice female
poster in UMA]
Message-ID: <brl5q6$4n5p0$1...@ID-138339.news.uni-berlin.de>
"And why I don't respect any "advice" they give me.
I respect *very few* of them , and I don't give
a bog damned if they like/respect me or not. "
[referring to everyone in soc.singles--she things a large population
happens to be all bitter LOL]
Message-ID: <brajs8$19210$1...@ID-138339.news.uni-berlin.de>
"You know how Carlotta and her crew get cheap
drugs? They sleep with the enemy ... heheh ...
(in her case, us horrid canucks) " [referring to charlotte in
soc.singles]
Message-ID: <gU6be.90376$7Q4.40201@clgrps13>
"Prolly some female soldier who turned him down for a date,
and he's feeling vindictive ... " [Nil=0 responding to a total stranger
in UMA]
"But don't let *that* stop you from making stoopid idiotic
statements about shite of which you know nothing to
feed your own prurient salacious catty vindictive
fantasies. You, of all people, will *never* be privy
to my private life. " {to Allisson another in soc.singles]
That nilo she has a way with words!
BTW, nil=0 the coward, who continues to post about me behind a filter,
specify what am i jealous of?
as a sign off I'll add two of Nil=0' hyprocrital words:
"What is the "truth" Nins. You have made all sorts of unflattering
comments about me (and especially to other people). You can say all
you
want about what I am, who I am, but that makes you a complete loon,
since there is actually *at least* one person in this group who knows
me
IRL. And reality doesn't seem to fit your jaded perception."
or
"Someday, just someday, somebody on this group
*may* be privy to my work and my life inasmuch as I will trust
them enough to volunteer that information. It will not be someone
like you who has an ugly tendency to assumptions and preconceptions. "
hmmm.. Nil=0 reflecting that although some think she not all that
special, they don't know her in REAL LIFE so they are loons. Now this
is rich stuff.
HawkCW4
Mike, I think I served under you some place. Did I ever tell you about
my Buddy in Alaska? He was a full blooded Cherokee, no not a princess,
he weighed about 320lbs and used to shave once a week with tweezers. We
were Plt Sgts together and I tell you, he was one of the smartest guys I
have ever known. He had handwriting girls would kill for, and more than
that, if you gave him your full name, he would use both hands, starting
at both ends and end up in the middle having written your name better
than you ever did. He could copy a signature so the owner could not
even tell. BTW, that is how I was kept in mosquito repellant at the
time. Our Capt ordered a hell of a lot more of that stuff than he knew
about.
My friends name was Daniel Boone and he was proud of it. He had made
MSgt more times than I had years in service. He did love his weekend
binges. Ever try carrying a 320 lb dead drunk Cherokee to the car and
then to his quarters in the middle of a 60 below winter night? Seems he
could handle the Qt of 10 High he drank in quarters, but then he
insisted I drive him to Fairbanks where just 2 drinks of Anisette (sp)
put him on his fanny. Funny how things work out. While I was in
Alaska, His Brother and his wife were living in the Apartments owned by
the mother of a girl I had dated for a while and then 4 years later married.
He was one of the many I can't forget.
Ed
USA Ret
Mike P
I drank all day in the Moosehead Lodge in Anchorage, and didn't think
nothing of it. I could still stand on one hand or lift the guy next to
me to the beams above. I opened one door to go outside then closed it
behind me so I could open the outside door. When I did, and the thirty
below air hit my lungs I couldn't lift my own feet let alone anything
else. I was totally wasted. Something about the air up there will make
you drunk at times. LOL I think ten days after I was born I gained two
hundred pounds because I don't remember a time I haven't been around
that weight, and it's harder than hell to get below it. It is hard to
carry anyone that's limp no matter what weight they are. One guy I tried
carrying back to the barracks at Fort Lewis I keep dropping from the
time the bus dropped us off. So I took a trash can from the mess hall,
and placed him it. Then dragged it all the way back to his bunk. I think
I should have picked one that was at least clean or got rid of it before
the PLT SGT woke us in the morning. Man did he smell, and he never went
to Tacoma with me again.
Music and math. Both to many of us are the same, and that's why we tend
to do well in it.
Mike
enialle
comment than hit reply to the part you wish to respond to. Agent
automaticaly putsthe name of the person who last posted, so dumbass
even though it shows Lawson, I was talking to You. Only you have that
very special talent to sound like a fucking redneck loony bird.
BTW how far did you finish in school?
"Perhaps one day you may wish to finish grade
school so you can go on with your education, and until that time I will
allow you to play by your self. Now notice what I said. It wasn't with
your self, but by your self. "
You do know you're constant reference to masterbation jokes indicates a
high probability that you have latent gay tendencies.
Mike P
around.
So your talking about Agent, and it putting the person that last posted.
I use Thunderbird, but your Agent doesn't seem to work. You had Lawson
at the top, and yet my words down below. You should read the help in
Agent to find out how to work it.
How far did I finish in school? Well if you had looked in my past posts
you would have seen I have said many times I have a MBA from Campbell,
and a Minor in American History from Maryland. I finished grade school
before you were even born.
On to the next one. Did I say Masturbation? And what does that have to
do with being Gay? Are you Gay or ashamed of being Gay? If I was I
wouldn't be, but I'm not. I could care less how someone has sexual
relations with another person. As long as they don't try to influence me
or do harm to anyone else. Seems you have a lot of hang-ups, and that's
a shame. Have you thought about seeing someone about them? Now that you
look stupid again do you have anything else?
Mike
Omega
"Sid9" <si...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:J1Yre.101921$8S5....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Those who did 9-11 are not the only terrorists in the world. In fact Saudi
Arabia has helped deal with many of those who planned 9-11. Over 400 have been
"executed", including members of the Royal family.
Iraq has been a big supporter of terrorism, funding terrorists and providing
training. Besides we should have taken Iraq out in the late '70s, if not
before.
Iran is high on the list as well.
Omega
<ah...@no-spam-panix.com> wrote in message
news:kpg4qbz...@panix1.panix.com...
: >>>>> Mike P writes:
:
: Mike> If it's wrong please prove it if you can.
:
: It is not a valid way of measuring risk. There are far
: more drivers in the US than soldiers in Iraq.
:
: Being a soldier in Iraq is far more dangerous than driving
: in the US.
How so?
Detroit is dangerous, so is the Southside of Chicago and Gary Ind. Too many
folks there do not license themselves or their cars (and they are US citizens).
And they are nearly as well armed as the insurgents are in Iraq (illegally in
many cases). I am not allowed to drive an armored vehicle, mount machine guns
or wear body armor in many of the major US cities.
Omega
: edi...@netpath.net wrote:
: > Omega wrote:
: >
: >>mothers are are preventing their sons from >joining.....
: >
: >
: > That's not the Army's real problem. NOTHING can keep any kid from
: > enlisting the day he turns 18 if he wants to - and certainly not Mom.
: > No more than Mom can keep now-adult Junior from marrying his girlfriend
: > on his 18th birthday.
: > The Army's REAL problem is that seemingly nobody really wants to
: > enlist - not that Mom won't let them!
:: >
:
: It's that more can afford to go on in their education compared to a few
: years ago. There are also more jobs now for Grads than there was before,
: and if they do join the Service after school they come in at a higher
: Rank/Grade.
:
: Mike
That is a factor. However we are seeing college grads joining for the
excitement, the adventure.
Omega
<edi...@netpath.net> wrote in message
news:1118842647....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
: Omega wrote:
: >mothers are are preventing their sons from >joining.....
:
: That's not the Army's real problem. NOTHING can keep any kid from
: enlisting the day he turns 18 if he wants to - and certainly not Mom.
: No more than Mom can keep now-adult Junior from marrying his girlfriend
: on his 18th birthday.
: The Army's REAL problem is that seemingly nobody really wants to
: enlist - not that Mom won't let them!
The kind of kid who joins the military tends not to be an anti authority type.
Thus they tend to be respectful of their parents.
Gunner
>>>>>> Gunner writes:
>
> Gunner> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:20:20 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote>
>
> >>
> >> "Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news> %_Mre.51427$_o.9328@attbi_s71...
> >>> In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
> >>> difficult is
> >>> that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
> >>>
> >>> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
> >>>
> >>> Army lowers standards, ups bonuses
> >>> RECRUITERS FALLING SHORT OF GOALS IN FACE OF IRAQ WAR
> >>> By Joseph L. Galloway
> >>> KNIGHT RIDDER WASHINGTON BUREAU
> >>>
> >>> WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army probably will come up well short of the
> >>> 80,000
> >>> new recruits it needs during fiscal 2005, despite adding a thousand more
> >>> recruiters, boosting enlistment cash bonuses to a record $20,000, spending
> >>> $200
> >>> million on upbeat television ads and beginning to lower its standards.
> >>>
> >> [...]
> >>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in Simi
> >>> Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
> >>> daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
> >>> Frankly,
> >>> percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out here."
>
> >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
> >> probably believes what he said.
> >>
>
> Gunner> He should. Its true.
>
>Not even close.
Ok, prove your case.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
La N
"LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FH6se.299$iG5.9@fed1read05...> news:B5Qre.11279$9a1.10554@trnddc01...>>> news:Z8Ore.11936$tY4.11250@trnddc06...
>>>
>>>>LawsonE wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in
>>>>>> Simi
>>>>>>Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
>>>>>>Frankly,
>>>>>>percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out
>>>>>>here."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
>>>>>Waud probably believes what he said.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> California freeways have more traffic injuries per licensed driver than
>>> Iraqi soldiers have wounds. However, a huge portion of Iraqi WIA's are
>>> seriously wounded, even crippled for life and the stats for CA that I
>>> can find don't break down that way.. The stats for deaths are as
>>> follows.
>>>
>>> Roughly 137,000 US Army are in Iraq right now.
>>>
>>> http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/military/history/hst1204.pdf
>>>
>>> KIA for the Army (which the recruiter recruits for) have ranged between
>>> 31 and 125 over the past 12 months.
>>>
>>> http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf
>>>
>>> In California, in 2002, there were over 22 million licensed drivers
>>>
>>> There were between 270 and 411 traffic fatalities per month in 2002.
>>>
>>> .http://www.chp.ca.gov/pdf/2002-sec1.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> 31/137,000 = .02% per month KIA on the low end to
>>> 125/137,000 = ..09% per month KIA on the high end in Iraq each month.
>>>
>>> 270/22,000,000 = .0012% on the low end to
>>> 411/22,000,000 = .0018% deaths per month on the high end due to traffic
>>> accidents in CA.
>>>
>>
>> wounded in Iraq he would be right. Now to be fair you would have to to
>> take a Town with the same amount of people in it as there are Soldiers in
>> Iraq. Then sit back to see how many are hurt or killed. Still it may not
>> be really fair because you may have more hurt in one day in an accident
>> than hurt in a year in Iraq. The same may be true in Iraq. It all depends
>> on how you look at it, and how you add the numbers at any given time. I
>> could make the same kind of statement by saying more people have been
>> killed by smoking related deaths than were killed in all the wars this
>> Country has fought.
>
> In any town with 137,000 people in the USA, I challenge you to find 31 to
> 125 deaths PER MONTH from all causes over a period of 1 year.
>
> Your inability to face the reality of what is going on is why Bush is able
> to continue to wage this war.
>
It's Mike's fault? ... ;)
Seriously, though, Lawson. Do you think the U.S. should pull
out now?
- n'a
LawsonE
The primary terrorists funded by Saddam were either those directed towards
Iran in his ongoing conflict with them, or rewards to Palestinian families
of suicide bombers in Israel. Neither of these was a direct threat to the
US. The international religious networks like Al Quaeda dispised Saddam. He
was as close to a rabid athiest dictator as you'll find in an Arab country.
Omega
:
: "Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
: news:%_Mre.51427$_o.9328@attbi_s71...
: > In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
: > difficult is that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
: > Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
: >
: > RECRUITERS FALLING SHORT OF GOALS IN FACE OF IRAQ WAR
: > By Joseph L. Galloway
: > KNIGHT RIDDER WASHINGTON BUREAU
: >
: > WASHINGTON - The U.S. Army probably will come up well short of the
: > 80,000 new recruits it needs during fiscal 2005, despite adding a thousand
more
: > recruiters, boosting enlistment cash bonuses to a record $20,000, spending
: > $200 million on upbeat television ads and beginning to lower its standards.
: >
: [...]
: > Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their son or
: > daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
: > Frankly, percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the freeways out
here."
: >
:
: That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class Waud
: probably believes what he said.
Jun 15, 5:48 PM EDT, Associated Press
Cops: Boy Takes Alcohol-Induced Late Ride
NILES TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -- A young driver took his friend's mother's car for
an alcohol-induced, middle-of-the-night, trash can-smashing joyride before
wrecking the vehicle and landing in the hospital with some broken bones, state
police said.
After he is released, the driver's case will be referred to juvenile court
because he's only 12 years old.
Troopers from the Michigan State Police post in Niles made the surprising
discovery after freeing the youngster from the vehicle, which crashed early
Tuesday in a dead end in Berrien County's Niles Township. The boy was not
wearing a seat belt.
"We normally don't see 12-year-olds driving, plus consuming alcohol," state
police Lt. Michael Brown told the South Bend (Ind.) Tribune for a Wednesday
story.
The boy drove for several miles on rural roads, striking numerous trash cans and
mailboxes along the way. His joyride ended when the car went down an embankment
and struck some trees, Brown said.
The St. Joseph River lies just beyond the stand of trees.
The boy initially was taken to Lakeland Hospital in Niles but later was
transferred to Bronson Hospital in Kalamazoo, where he was listed in fair
condition, Brown said.
Investigators were awaiting laboratory tests to determine the boy's level of
reported intoxication.
"Right now, we don't know where he got the alcohol," Brown said. "We're still
investigating.
Jun 15, 5:29 PM EDT, Associated Press
Cops: Boy Steals School Bus, Takes It Home
OWEGO, N.Y. (AP) -- Police say a 15-year-old boy stole a bus from school and
then led officers on a chase that ended at his home in a neighboring county.
A school employee called police around to report the theft.
While the initial report was being taken, the bus zipped past a Broome County
sheriff's deputy on patrol. The deputy started to pursue the bus but the driver
wouldn't pull over.
A state trooper set up a tire deflation device in Tioga County but the bus kept
going.
Police say the 10-mile chase finally ended when Michael Beckett pulled into the
driveway of his home in the town of Owego. Officers apprehended Beckett after he
ran from the school bus.
Authorities say charges are pending. Beckett was released to a parent.
LawsonE
> : >
> : >
> : > : >> In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has
> : > : >
> : > : He should. Its true.
> : > :
> : > : Gunner
> : >
> : > Army Times had an article some months back that covered the number of
> : > deaths of service members since they returned. Given murders, auto
> accidents and
> : > other hazards of US living, we have had over 3000 die since returning.
> : >
> : >
> :
> : Do you have the issue of that article?
>
> No, the wife throws newspapers (Army Times is printed like a newspaper,
> and is
> published by the same group that owns USA Today) away. I wish that I
> could
> remember the month. I think it as late March, early April.
> Unfortunately,
> since I do not subscribe to Army Times but pick it up at the PX (when I am
> by
> one), I do not have access to the electronic version.
>
> 3000 is not an extreme number, given that there have been over 500,000
> serve in
> the Iraq theater.
True, but since many have been there twice or more at odd intervals, you
have to look at monthly rates, rather than 2-yearly rates.
LawsonE
"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:c8mva15c2f4lqh259...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:45:44 GMT, "Omega" <21...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>:
>>: "Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>: news:Z8Ore.11936$tY4.11250@trnddc06...
>>: > LawsonE wrote:
>>: >
>>: >>> Or as Sgt. 1st Class Timothy Waud, a career recruiter based in
>>Simi
>>: >>>Valley, Calif., put it: Parents "say they don't want to send their
>>son or
>>: >>>daughter off into danger. There's a lot of misconceptions about Iraq.
>>: >>>Frankly, percentage-wise you face more of a risk driving on the
>>freeways
>>out
>>: >>>here."
>>: >>>
>>: >>
>>: >>
>>: >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
>>Waud
>>: >> probably believes what he said.
>>: >
>>: >
>>: > of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
>>: >
>>:
>>: He said "percentage-wise." If you count all injuries, he's correct.
>>: California freeways have more traffic injuries per licensed driver than
>>: Iraqi soldiers have wounds. However, a huge portion of Iraqi WIA's are
>>: seriously wounded, even crippled for life and the stats for CA that I
>>can
>>: find don't break down that way.. The stats for deaths are as follows.
>>:
>>: Roughly 137,000 US Army are in Iraq right now.
>>:
>>: http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/military/history/hst1204.pdf
>>:
>>: KIA for the Army (which the recruiter recruits for) have ranged between
>>31
>>: and 125 over the past 12 months.
>>:
>>: http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf
>>:
>>: In California, in 2002, there were over 22 million licensed drivers
>>:
>>: There were between 270 and 411 traffic fatalities per month in 2002.
>>:
>>: .http://www.chp.ca.gov/pdf/2002-sec1.pdf
>>:
>>:
>>: 31/137,000 = .02% per month KIA on the low end to
>>: 125/137,000 = ..09% per month KIA on the high end in Iraq each month.
>>:
>>: 270/22,000,000 = .0012% on the low end to
>>: 411/22,000,000 = .0018% deaths per month on the high end due to traffic
>>: accidents in CA.
>>
>>We kill 42,000 per year (as reported in the USA Today this week) on our
>>highways.
>>
>>BTW, the 1700 deaths in Iraq covers several years and in that time we have
>>had
>>somewhere close to 500,000 troops (counting Navy and AF) in the Iraq
>>theater.
>>
> And is should be further noted that at the minimum...25% of those
> deaths in Iraq are due to traffic accidents, drownings and so forth.
>
And it should be noted that:
1) I looked at monthly death rates for both statistics since the 2 year
statistics in Iraq are deceptive due to the way the war deaths have gone UP
*drastically* since "major combat operations" ended, making the average
statistic misleading;
2) I only mentioned Army deaths since it was an Army recruiter making the
comment;
3) I only looked at combat deaths in Iraq, not combat + accident deaths;
4) I only looked at California highway statistics since the recruiter was
living in California.
BTW, if you want to look at all highway deaths, you have to consider all
registered drivers in the USA, or at least that portion that uses the
highways. If there are 100 million people using the highways every year
inthe USA, that's 42,000/100,000,000 deaths per year, or 42 deaths per 100
thousand. There 42 deaths per MONTH per 100 thousand Army troops in Iraq.
LawsonE
"HawkCW4" <Haw...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ARYre.23$Lr4.21@fed1read03...
> much for the kid still driving in California, Especialy in and around Simi
> Valley.
>
> The way I see it is this: It matters little how many are in Iraq, or in
> California. The traffic in California is still there and as long as the
> kid remains in California, he is subject to those possible Traffic Deaths.
> Seems to me his best choice would be to run like hell for Iraq where the
> chances of being killed deminish considrably.
>
> Now don't go throwing more math at me, it hurts my head.
>
There are at least 10x as many deaths, percentage-wise for the Army in Iraq
as there are highway deaths,percentage-wise, in CA.
If you can't grasp that figure, sorry.
LawsonE
Mike P
Some do, and some join so they can go another four years after they get
out. Not counting they can go to school while in the Military. Seeing
what the cost of a good education is now days, and it's going up it is a
good way to pay for it.
Mike
La N
>
> "La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aN6se.70224$tt5.51763@edtnps90...
> are in there, what we are trying to accomplish, how we should be doing it,
> and when, or at what point in Iraq's development, we should leave.
>
> I don't beleive that a time-table for our leaving is a good idea, because
> that gives the terrorists/insurgets/whatevers a timetable for their
> actions. We SHOULD announce milestones of development and security and
> what we will do when those milestones are achieved.
>
>
>
This reminds me somewhat of Howard's argument of some time ago,
and with which I agreed, that the government isn't very good at p.r.,
or at least keeping the people abreast of developments, as it should
be. I certainly agree that you can't pull out now in that it would just
make things much worse.
- n'a
LawsonE
We should be having a serious national debate at all levels about why we are
LawsonE
"Gunner" <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:lip1b119j5cesgb7d...@4ax.com...
In any given month, between 200 and 400 or so people die in California on
the highway, out of 22 million drivers.
In any given month, between 31 and 125 Army troops die in Iraq due to
combat, out of 137 thousand Army troops.
Put differently, between 1.2 and 2.4 people die in California on the highway
for every 137 thousand drivers.
Mike P
I haven't looked to see what towns would work, but I know of one town
that had a less population where over 150 died with-in a week from Fog
related traffic deaths. It was a small town near Sacramento on Hwy 99.
Then I could note just under four hundred died in a matter of hours on
the Sun Shine Skyway Bridge when it was hit by a barge. The center went
into the water, and not seeing it the cars just keep driving off. If
they did try to stop the ones behind hit them knocking them into the
water. Then look at Hwy 666 at home. How many killed? Wish the hell they
would rename that road.
I will say Pres. Bush does not wage this war. Congress pays for it, and
they are elected by the people. So the people not only support it they
pay for it. If that wasn't the case so many would not have been
reelected. I also don't think we should pull out on them like we did
back in 91, and we have only been there for a few years. Seeing what has
been done to help them, and rebuild their Country I think in the end
they will be far above the other Countries around them. This will make a
fine buffer in a area that has been at war for so long. It may even pull
them together to improve each other.
Mike
Omega
: > : >>>>> Posted on Tue, Jun. 14, 2005
Saddam funded some terrorists groups in Europe and South America as well over
the years. While al Qaeda disliked him, they were not above USING him and he
used them as well.
What you do not understand is that any form of terrorism, anywhere in the world,
is a threat to the US in some fashion. We can no longer afford rebellion,
terrorism or other radical, violent actions. Those days are pass.
Gunner
wrote:
>>> >>
>>>
>>> Gunner> He should. Its true.
>>>
>>>Not even close.
>>
>> Ok, prove your case.
>>
>
>In any given month, between 200 and 400 or so people die in California on
>the highway, out of 22 million drivers.
>
>In any given month, between 31 and 125 Army troops die in Iraq due to
>combat, out of 137 thousand Army troops.
>
>Put differently, between 1.2 and 2.4 people die in California on the highway
>for every 137 thousand drivers.
>
Fair enough. Now would you care to do the same for any unnatural cause
of death, accident or homicide for the same age range in California.
Lets pick LA as the datum constant.
Chris Hayes
Mike P wrote:
> Chris Hayes wrote:
> >
> > Mike P wrote:
> >
> >>enialle wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:27:17 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Mike P" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:52Ore.11561$lb5.1330@trnddc04...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Omega wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>In this article, one of the big reasons that recruiting has become
> >>>>>>difficult is that mothers are are preventing their sons from joining.....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What your saying is their Mothers do not feel they are yet an adult. Even
> >>>>>after they turn 18 they want to control their children. Yet those same
> >>>>>persons can vote, and do most everything else a adult can do. To include
> >>>>>being judged as an adult in a Court of Law. I feel sorry for them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>when are you going to sign up for the war bubba?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>If a child asks advice from a parent, and the parent believes something is
> >>>>wrong, should they keep their mouth shut?
> >>
> >>Again you are responding to me, and not Larson. Were you born this way
> >>or did you learn to be so stupid?
> >
> >
> > Oh, the irony! You're one of the most stupid people on Usenet and you
> > prove it every time you post.
> >
> > That said, you shouldn't forget to take your thorazine.
> >
>
> Why would I want to take your sister? Didn't you two get married like
> your parents did or did they have you out of wedlock? Oh that's right
> you said she married her brother by jumping over a stick. Sorry I
> forgot. You know it's kind of easy to forget what you write most of the
> time as you never have anything worth reading anyway. But don't let that
> keep you from it. I'm sure one of these days you will find something
> you know about, and can prove with something other than a saying from
> PeeWee. Now you be a good little fella, and I'll get back to you after
> your done playing with your self.
>
Wipe your chin off, retard. You're drooling on your shoulder again.
Why am I not suprised you'd respond with your typical idiocy?
Chris Hayes
And it shows. You obviously destroyed what few brain cells you had.
ROFLMAO!
Omega
: >> >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
: >> >> Waud probably believes what he said.
: >>
: Mike> How many people have died on our Freeways this year compared to how
: Mike> many of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
: >>
: >> >> Is this your first read of "How to Lie with Statistics"?
: >> >> You are not very good at it.
: >>
: Mike> If it's wrong please prove it if you can.
: >>
: >> It is not a valid way of measuring risk. There are far
: >> more drivers in the US than soldiers in Iraq.
: >>
: >> Being a soldier in Iraq is far more dangerous than driving
: >> in the US.
:
: Omega> How so?
:
: Omega> Detroit is dangerous, so is the Southside of Chicago and Gary Ind.
Too many
: Omega> folks there do not license themselves or their cars (and they are US
citizens).
: Omega> And they are nearly as well armed as the insurgents are in Iraq
(illegally in
: Omega> many cases). I am not allowed to drive an armored vehicle, mount
machine guns
: Omega> or wear body armor in many of the major US cities.
:
: Yes, and despite that the death rate in Iraq for soldiers is
: far higher than the death rate in the US for people on the roads.
:
: Thanks for helping show how absurd Sgt. Waud's comments were.
According to the anti gun folks, the US is the most violent nation on earth....
Mike P
Well I'm glad you like to follow me around, but I don't go for that kind
of stuff. You can come back when you grow up. Perhaps then you will have
learned something.
Mike
Chris Hayes
But I don't. Try again, loser.
Mike P
Mike P
> On 16 Jun 2005 08:01:54 -0700, "Chris Hayes" <hay...@fadmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Mike P wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Why would I want to take your sister? Didn't you two get married like
>>>your parents did or did they have you out of wedlock? Oh that's right
>>>you said she married her brother by jumping over a stick. Sorry I
>>>forgot. You know it's kind of easy to forget what you write most of the
>>>time as you never have anything worth reading anyway. But don't let that
>>> keep you from it. I'm sure one of these days you will find something
>>>you know about, and can prove with something other than a saying from
>>>PeeWee. Now you be a good little fella, and I'll get back to you after
>>>your done playing with your self.
>
>
>
I'm sorry I didn't know you are his sister, and his wife. I didn't know
it would make you as stupid as him, but it sure did.
Mike
Peter Vos
Omega wrote:
>
> What you do not understand is that any form of terrorism, anywhere in the world,
> is a threat to the US in some fashion. We can no longer afford rebellion,
> terrorism or other radical, violent actions. Those days are pass.
Pity poor Donald. Feel his pain. Imagine the sad state of affairs to
learn
that you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the
game you started.
Poor Donald Rumsfeld. Trapped in a prison of his own making. Like
Michael
Jackson and Howard Hughes, he surrounds himself with sycophants and
constantly travels within a coccoon to protect his fragile ego. Is it
any
wonder that when the world comes crashing in he is freighted with self-
doubt? It is any surprise that when his delusional plans come face to
face
with the teeth of reality that he cowers behind bluster and non
sequitors?
How many ways can a man cry out for help before it arrives?
He says outrageous things... but his boss won't reprimand him.
He makes outrageous claims... but his boss won't correct him.
He demands outrageous sums of money... but no on will impose
discipline.
He alienates old allies... but no admonishes him.
He wreaks havoc wherever he goes ... but people keep picking up after
him.
Like a crack addict out of control, a drunk surrounded by a host of co-
dependents, like Ike Turner or David Koresh ... he just pulls those
around
him deeper into his self-destructive little world... at least Tina had
the
strength to get out ... one wonders about the folks working for Donald
Rumsfeld. Maybe it's the money. Maybe they think they will be able to
jump
ship right before it hits the rocks. Maybe they believe the crap they
feed
him. Who knows.
If he were 50 years younger everyone would recognize his pitiful cry
for
help... even Donald Rumsfeld has to spend time alone with himself. And
then when he realizes has lost all his dignity, when folks openly mock
him
and the ridicule is never ending, he writes a letter full of doubt and
despair to three or four of his closest advisors. He bares his heart in
the
most private of ways and surprisingly this memo finds its way into the
mainstream media. Desperately clinging to his last shred of
self-respect
he pretends to be surprised the note is out in public. But you can
sense
the relief in his voice. The realization that this charade is coming to
an
end... finally...
How will it end?
Will he do himself in and leave a "shocked" world wondering, "How could
we have missed the signs? He seemed so... happy." Or will he go out in
a blaze of glory taking innocents with him like the arrested
development menaces that shot up Columbine? Or will he seek refuge in
pills and alcohol, covering up the pain until his body gives out...
long after his soul has left the building?
Poor Donald Rumsfeld... it must be sad to know you will die soon with
nothing to show for it all... that people will spit on your grave for
years
to come.... that no one will miss you.
Small wonder he went mad.
Omega
"Peter Vos" <pvo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119013912.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
:
:
: Omega wrote:
: >
: > What you do not understand is that any form of terrorism, anywhere in the
world,
: > is a threat to the US in some fashion. We can no longer afford rebellion,
: > terrorism or other radical, violent actions. Those days are pass.
Read this defeatism bullshit below. This is what the left has become. They are
losers, in every aspect of the word. They want to become slaves. They will be
conquered by Islam, forced to convert.
: Pity poor Donald. Feel his pain. Imagine the sad state of affairs to
:
Chris Hayes
enialle wrote:
> On 16 Jun 2005 08:01:54 -0700, "Chris Hayes" <hay...@fadmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Mike P wrote:
>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why would I want to take your sister? Didn't you two get married like
> >> your parents did or did they have you out of wedlock? Oh that's right
> >> you said she married her brother by jumping over a stick. Sorry I
> >> forgot. You know it's kind of easy to forget what you write most of the
> >> time as you never have anything worth reading anyway. But don't let that
> >> keep you from it. I'm sure one of these days you will find something
> >> you know about, and can prove with something other than a saying from
> >> PeeWee. Now you be a good little fella, and I'll get back to you after
> >> your done playing with your self.
>
> Can anyone decipher the above paragraph?
Nope. It's Mike's typical incoherent drivel.
Omega
<ah...@no-spam-panix.com> wrote in message
news:kpgy899...@panix1.panix.com...
: >>>>> Omega writes:
:
: >> >> >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
: >> >> >> Waud probably believes what he said.
: >> >>
: Mike> How many people have died on our Freeways this year compared to how
: Mike> many of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
: >> >>
: >> >> >> Is this your first read of "How to Lie with Statistics"?
: >> >> >> You are not very good at it.
: >> >>
: Mike> If it's wrong please prove it if you can.
: >> >>
: >> >> It is not a valid way of measuring risk. There are far
: >> >> more drivers in the US than soldiers in Iraq.
: >> >>
: >> >> Being a soldier in Iraq is far more dangerous than driving
: >> >> in the US.
: >>
: Omega> How so?
: >>
: Omega> Detroit is dangerous, so is the Southside of Chicago and Gary Ind.
: Omega> folks there do not license themselves or their cars (and they are US
: Omega> And they are nearly as well armed as the insurgents are in Iraq
: Omega> many cases). I am not allowed to drive an armored vehicle, mount
: Omega> or wear body armor in many of the major US cities.
: >>
: >> Yes, and despite that the death rate in Iraq for soldiers is
: >> far higher than the death rate in the US for people on the roads.
: >>
: >> Thanks for helping show how absurd Sgt. Waud's comments were.
: Omega> According to the anti gun folks, the US is the most violent nation on
earth....
:
: Do not mistake me for someone that supports gun control,
: but your statement is, of course, absurd. Iraq, for one,
: is far more violent.
Then you are a Jeffersonian Democrat who still believes that the South was
right?
Again, we are told over and over again that the US is the most violent society
on earth. Could it be that the media is wrong? That the anti gun folks are
wrong? That Dick Durban has his head up his ass?
HawkCW4
>>>>>>Omega writes:
>
>
> >> >> >> That's such a bogus comment. The scary thing is that Sgt. 1st Class
> >> >> >> Waud probably believes what he said.
> >> >>
> Mike> How many people have died on our Freeways this year compared to how
> Mike> many of our Soldiers have died in Iraq this year?
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Is this your first read of "How to Lie with Statistics"?
> >> >> >> You are not very good at it.
> >> >>
> Mike> If it's wrong please prove it if you can.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is not a valid way of measuring risk. There are far
> >> >> more drivers in the US than soldiers in Iraq.
> >> >>
> >> >> Being a soldier in Iraq is far more dangerous than driving
> >> >> in the US.
> >>
> Omega> How so?
> >>
> Omega> Detroit is dangerous, so is the Southside of Chicago and Gary Ind.
> Omega> folks there do not license themselves or their cars (and they are US
> Omega> And they are nearly as well armed as the insurgents are in Iraq
> Omega> many cases). I am not allowed to drive an armored vehicle, mount
> Omega> or wear body armor in many of the major US cities.
> >>
> >> Yes, and despite that the death rate in Iraq for soldiers is
> >> far higher than the death rate in the US for people on the roads.
> >>
> >> Thanks for helping show how absurd Sgt. Waud's comments were.
>
>
> Do not mistake me for someone that supports gun control,
> but your statement is, of course, absurd. Iraq, for one,
> is far more violent.
Yes, but then you and I and he, all know this. What he said was,
'according to the anti gun folks, the US is the most violent'. To Them
it matters none which nations really are, it only matters what they say,
think or believe. Probably why they are considered to be semi kooks.
Ed
USA Ret
>
> Mr. Dean, you should really look into an education.
>
>
>
Omega
<ah...@no-spam-panix.com> wrote in message
news:kpgd5qk...@panix1.panix.com...
: >>>>> HawkCW4 writes:
:
: HawkCW4> Yes, but then you and I and he, all know this. What he said was,
: HawkCW4> 'according to the anti gun folks, the US is the most violent'. To
:
: Ahh, indeed. I misread Mr. Dean.
:
: I have not heard them say that, but some might.
:
: Sorry Mr. Dean, I misread your words.
:
: HawkCW4> Them it matters none which nations really are, it only matters what
: HawkCW4> they say, think or believe. Probably why they are considered to be
: HawkCW4> semi kooks.
Try reading what the anti gun folks post over at Talk.Politics.Guns.
Omega
<eni...@punkass.com> wrote in message
news:1119044243.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>Oh your talking to me again? OK lets see what you had to say this time around.
?Ed's your covert reference to acts of masturbation and sexual references and
your oral fixations you project on to others are well known throughout the
hallowed halls of our beloved UMA. I know the idea you might be gay is upsetting
you so. I, being a very out of the closet liberal, have _no_ problems with
one's sexual orientation. However it is _you_ who I worry about.. Such a fine
example of retired military doctrinated macho man you strive so hard to
maintain.
But really, don't you think going undercover cruising the gay bars, wearing
that green tinsel pasty on your manboobs while pole dancing and wiggling your
large rear will revive
those horribly intense shame and disgust afterwards? the truth is Eddie, you
keep this up it will drive you into other , um... less, um, wholesome activities
like scrathing holes in
your skin, posting banal and boorish rants while sounding eerily like mini-me.
Whenever you post, mini me comes to mind. You DO SO identify withhim, I can
tell.
I do admire your strength to march in, chin up spite of it all.
----------------
Why does the left have such a focus on sexual activities? Are they are that
self centered, that adolescent???
LawsonE
> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:11:44 -0700, "LawsonE" <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> Gunner> He should. Its true.
>>>>
>>>>Not even close.
>>>
>>> Ok, prove your case.
>>>
>>
>>In any given month, between 200 and 400 or so people die in California on
>>the highway, out of 22 million drivers.
>>
>>In any given month, between 31 and 125 Army troops die in Iraq due to
>>combat, out of 137 thousand Army troops.
>>
>>Put differently, between 1.2 and 2.4 people die in California on the
>>highway
>>for every 137 thousand drivers.
>>
> Fair enough. Now would you care to do the same for any unnatural cause
> of death, accident or homicide for the same age range in California.
> Lets pick LA as the datum constant.
>
LA? Age range? All forms of death?
By the raw stats, the death rate for living in LA is about the same as dying
by combat in Iraq for the same age group though its hard to compare directly
since the number of soldiers present in a given month is not known. On the
face, its safer to be in Iraq at those ages than to live in LA, but by race
you're far safer being Black in Iraq than Black in LA at those age groups,
but far safer being Asian in LA than in Iraq.
If you want specific causes for deaths in LA, use this URL
all causes of deaths for all races per year per 100,000, dvided by 12 to get
average per month, sorted by age:
15-24 6.92 per month per 100,000
25-34 7.82 per month per 100,000
35-44 12.71 per month per 100,000
45-54 29.53 per month per 100,000
55-64 67.51 per month per 100,000
as compared to the combat death by age for all Army personal in OIF since
combat operations ended (multiplied by 798/1058 to account for hostile
KIA/total, divided by 26 to get monthly rate,100,000 personnel assumed,
though there's more so the rates should be lower than given):
http://www.dior.whs.mil/mmid/casualty/oif-deaths-total.pdf
AGE total monthly adjusted for hostile vs non-hostile
< 22 264 7.65
22-24 232 6.7
25-30 284 8.24
31-35 120 3.48
> 35 158 4.58
================
Total 1058 30.69
DEATHS BY AGE OF DECEDENT
AGE OF DECEDENT: ALL
RACE / ETHNICITY 1:ALL
GENDER: ALL
CAUSES OF DEATH: ALL CAUSES
ICD10 RANGE: A00-Y89
DEATHS BASED ON RESIDENCE
PLACE OF RESIDENCE: LOS ANGELES
YEAR OF EVENT: 2001
AGE OF DECEDENT NUMBER OF DEATHS POPULATION AGE-SPECIFIC RATE/100.000
UNDER 1 828 165,818 499.3
1-4 151 669,151 22.6
5-14 213 1,695,127 12.6
15-24 1,033 1,244,050 83.0
25-34 1,318 1,405,003 93.8
35-44 2,598 1,703,066 152.5
45-54 4,648 1,311,888 354.3
55-64 6,278 774,936 810.1
65-74 10,171 507,604 2,003.7
75-84 16,553 329,938 5,017.0
85+ 15,963 118,832 13,433.3
UNK 20 0 0.0
=========================
TOT 59,774 9,925,413 602.2
Tinman
Nothing worth reading.