Ribbon and Award Carry-Over
MICHAEL CHRISTOPHER MORTON
Yo fellow cadets and officers!
I 'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the
ribbons and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to
ROTC or any of the academies. I spent two and a half years in the Army JROTC
Battalion at Avery County (North Carolina) High School, earning the following
positions in my senior year:
BNSSAO (Battalion Staff Special Administration Officer)
ABNXO (Assistant Battalion Executive Officer)
ABNS-5 (Assistant Battalion Staff Officer in charge of Public
Relations/Information/Recruiting/Special Events)
Acting BNS-5 (at end of year due to negligence of former S-5)
Personal Assistant to the Battalion Commander (as designated
by order of the commander and SAI)
JROTC Reporter (as recognized by the battalion, high school
journalism department, and local newspaper)
Assistant to the Raider Challenge Team Manager
I stayed at Cadet First Lieutenant, although by my duties as compared to our
battalion's cadet handbook, I should have received the rank of at least Cadet
Captain. I regularly took full command of the battalion and many of its
subordinate units, and excelled in leadership positions. During both of our
battalion's inspections in 1993, I was noted by inspectors (which included
highly experienced instructors of Appalachian State University's ROTC battalion
and then Fifth Brigade Commander COL Donald Latella) as being fully trained
in military customs and incredibly capable and creative in the high leadership
positions I had earned during my JROTC experience. I had a strong academic
record throughout high school, won an Air Force ROTC four-year
scholarship in computer science, trained and worked with the battalion's two
Raider Challenge teams, excelled in all areas of training in the JROTC program,
worked hard throughout the school and community in both extracurricular and
community service areas, and worked hard to represent my JROTC battalion as
being the best in the nation (and I still believe we are).
Now I've made my way to North Carolina State University and AFROTC Detachment
595, or the Wolfpack Warriors. Except for the ribbon I receive when my
scholarship is activated, I get absolutely nothing for all those long, hard
hours I put in during my JROTC career. I'm merely Cadet Fourth Class Morton,
Bravo (Bong) Flight, AFROTC Detachment 595. But, despite the change of services
and levels of training, I am easily ahead of many of our detachment's cadets.
So I think I should get ribbons for the work I've done in (counting summers I
worked for the battalion) three years of JROTC experience. My good records,
advanced levels of training, and work to and beyond the extent of my duties
should count for something. But, despite my complaints, they don't. And I
think many of you will agree with my standpoint. My level of military customs,
training, and knowledge is well above that of many other cadets. Does this
mean nothing? Are those three years in green merely barely readable lines in
my academic record? Is this really fair? I don't think so, and I personally
want to say something to my commanders about it. I hope others of you do as
well. Contact me via e-mail or this group and we'll try our best to change
things?
On a side note, I have a friend (my former JROTC battalion commander) who now
is in AFROTC at Montana State University at Bozeman, MT. His name is Jason
Lee Burke. If anyone sees him, tell him to get in touch with me via e-mail,
mail, or phone:
209 Owen Residence Hall
P. O. Box 4466
North Carolina State University
Raleigh, NC 27607-4466
(919) 512-8355
mcmo...@eos.ncsu.edu
And, if capable, please send me his e-mail address or how to obtain it (if he
has one). Such would be greatly appreciated. Much propz II all my brothaz 'n'
sistaz, propz Xtra strenf II da creator, GBalluvya, and AUDI V...
Ever looking upward (AIM HIGH),
C 4/C Michael Christopher (Chris--sei) Morton
Bravo (Bong) Flight
AFROTC Detachment 595, NCSU
***Military confrontation is merely sibling rivalry on steroids...***
Chris Gellasch
>
>Yo fellow cadets and officers!
>
>I 'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the
>ribbons and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to
>ROTC or any of the academies. I spent two and a half years in the Army JROTC
>Battalion at Avery County (North Carolina) High School, earning the following
>positions in my senior year:
>
the same thing will happen. That is because you go up a level and have
to start over. If you had a letter in high school football should you
automatically get one in college? Of course not, because it isn't the
same thing even though there are many similarities between football at
the two levels.
>
>I stayed at Cadet First Lieutenant, although by my duties as compared to our
>battalion's cadet handbook, I should have received the rank of at least Cadet
If we were all promoted based on what a set of guidelines in a book
said, there would be a military full of generals ;-)
>battalion's inspections in 1993, I was noted by inspectors (which included
>highly experienced instructors of Appalachian State University's ROTC battalion
>and then Fifth Brigade Commander COL Donald Latella) as being fully trained
^^^^^
Define "fully" for me. I doubt you could immediately enter Active Duty
as a 2LT right after that inspection or they would have pinned the bars on
you right then.
[Stuff about getting a 4-year AFROTC scholarship deleted]
Your JROTC training did more for you than giving you ribbons, it helped
you get a four year scholarship. That is the best recognition to hope
for. In my battalion I always stood out for being a 4-year scholarship
student since most people were not on scholarship.
>
>scholarship is activated, I get absolutely nothing for all those long, hard
>hours I put in during my JROTC career. I'm merely Cadet Fourth Class Morton,
>Bravo (Bong) Flight, AFROTC Detachment 595. But, despite the change of services
>and levels of training, I am easily ahead of many of our detachment's cadets.
>
Just because you can't show off a bunch of ribbons you don't have
anything? You just said you are ahead of many other cadets. If others
know that you are high speed, low drag they will give you more respect
than if you have a bunch of ribbons. If you are just a ribbon chaser
you won't get very far in ROTC (or the military).
>So I think I should get ribbons for the work I've done in (counting summers I
>worked for the battalion) three years of JROTC experience. My good records,
>advanced levels of training, and work to and beyond the extent of my duties
>should count for something. But, despite my complaints, they don't. And I
I bet all of those points you racked up with the cadre for being squared
away and above the other cadets has just been blown. No one likes a
whiner, especially about awards. Like I said before, you don't need the
ribbons, just show them how great you are. Last year I had to trade in
all of my ROTC ribbons, my black Raider beret, and my C/CPT rank when I
was commissioned. I'll miss my days as Bravo Co. Commander but having
those gold bars are much nicer than any cadet rank or awards.
As our supply Sgt. used to say: "Suck it up and drive on!"
Chris Gellasch
2LT, MS
On Ed Delay
John B. Slankas
JROTC experience.
[ bs about positions and accomplishments deleted ]
Positions and accomplishments in JROTC are not applicable in ROTC, just
as positions and accomplishments in ROTC are not applicable in Active Duty.
You are judged solely by the accomplishments at that level. You might
have been one stud in JROTC, but now you have to prove yourself in ROTC.
>Now I've made my way to North Carolina State University and AFROTC Detachment
>595, or the Wolfpack Warriors. Except for the ribbon I receive when my
>scholarship is activated, I get absolutely nothing for all those long, hard
>hours I put in during my JROTC career. I'm merely Cadet Fourth Class Morton,
>Bravo (Bong) Flight, AFROTC Detachment 595. But, despite the change of services
>and levels of training, I am easily ahead of many of our detachment's cadets.
Why do you care so much about showing off these ribbons? I would be
embarrassed to wear the ribbons I earned as a cadet while on active duty.
Another analogy would be wearing a high school letterman's jacket in college.
It just doesn't mean anything.
>So I think I should get ribbons for the work I've done in (counting summers I
>worked for the battalion) three years of JROTC experience. My good records,
>advanced levels of training, and work to and beyond the extent of my duties
>should count for something. But, despite my complaints, they don't. And I
>think many of you will agree with my standpoint. My level of military customs,
>training, and knowledge is well above that of many other cadets. Does this
>mean nothing? Are those three years in green merely barely readable lines in
>my academic record? Is this really fair? I don't think so, and I personally
>want to say something to my commanders about it.
I think you should go in and complain to your PAS about this. Make sure you
use proper military courtesy, though. I don't think your PAS will be
too impressed. Most PAS's have 20+ years of active duty service and have
seen what really counts. Being able to push cadet paperwork and march is
fairly trivial.
>Ever looking upward (AIM HIGH),
Make sure your nose isn't pointed up too high.
Joey Whelan
1st Lt, USAF
John Slankas
2nd Lt, USAF
Uppie
>I 'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the
>ribbons and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to
>ROTC or any of the academies. I spent two and a half years in the Army JROTC
>Battalion at Avery County (North Carolina) High School, earning the following
>positions in my senior year:
[numerous awards that are totally meaningless in a big-picture look...]
There is a reason for this "cancellation" of awards as you start to play
at a higher level...When you start ROTC, an academy, or active duty, one
thing that is stressed is that everyone is EQUAL. You must prove yourself
simply on your own merit at that level. The JROTC experience that you have
will help you in that regard, and there is your _real_ reward for having
done JROTC. Ditto for going ROTC or to an academy, it will give you a leg
up over those that have been commissioned via OCS. It will _not_ make
you better right off the bat, it merely means that you have the added
experience to help you serve more capably.
The academies don't permit _any_ ribbons and awards to be worn (whether JROTC
grads or ROTC cadets who have transfered there), except those earned on active
duty serving with the fleet/troops.
>I stayed at Cadet First Lieutenant, although by my duties as compared to our
>battalion's cadet handbook, I should have received the rank of at least Cadet
>Captain.
Does that mean that anyone who takes the conn of a ship should automatically
promoted to Captain? I think not.
I'm currently assigned to a slot above my rank too. Big deal--it's
extremely common in the military. Consider such an assignment a privilige
and an expression by your superiors that they have confidence in you. Do
_not_ consider such an assignment a birthright to more stripes/bars.
>During both of our
>battalion's inspections in 1993, I was noted by inspectors (which included
>highly experienced instructors of Appalachian State University's ROTC battalion
>and then Fifth Brigade Commander COL Donald Latella) as being fully trained
>in military customs and incredibly capable and creative in the high leadership
>positions I had earned during my JROTC experience.
This is known as "stroking the troops." Don't let it go to your head--it
is done mainly to bolster morale. (Also known as "blowing smoke up your ass.")
Once you are commissioned and have some practical service experience, you
will learn _all about_ how the evaluation/commendation system works.
(It's a sad sight.)
>I had a strong academic
>record throughout high school, won an Air Force ROTC four-year
>scholarship in computer science, trained and worked with the battalion's two
>Raider Challenge teams, excelled in all areas of training in the JROTC program,
>worked hard throughout the school and community in both extracurricular and
>community service areas, and worked hard to represent my JROTC battalion as
>being the best in the nation (and I still believe we are).
I'm impressed. Now as General Al Gray would say, "Does that mean that
he can shoot straight and carry a wounded soldier across a battlefield?
That's all I give a shit about."
Remember to think about what really matters...
1) Mission accomplishment
2) Welfare of your men.
The other stuff (e.g. community service) is warm-fuzzy stuff, it keeps the
military in good with the media--which helps at budget time. It does nothing
in itself to accomplish military objectives.
>Now I've made my way to North Carolina State University and AFROTC Detachment
>595, or the Wolfpack Warriors. Except for the ribbon I receive when my
>scholarship is activated, I get absolutely nothing for all those long, hard
>hours I put in during my JROTC career. I'm merely Cadet Fourth Class Morton,
>Bravo (Bong) Flight, AFROTC Detachment 595. But, despite the change of services
>and levels of training, I am easily ahead of many of our detachment's cadets.
I spent 3 years enlisted, advancing to E-5, then a year at the Naval
Acadmy Preparatory School, before starting the Naval Academy. You know what
that got me at the Academy? I was tasked more toughly, had more expected of
me, and was held to higher standards than many of my classmates. Did it
make me anything other than Midshipman 4th Class Uphoff? No. Should it
have? No. Did my enlisted experience help me at the Academy? Yes, and
there was the payoff for my time--I was already adjusted to the military,
had a leg up in virtually every field, and was able to use this advantage
to help a struggling roommate survive through plebe summer.
>So I think I should get ribbons for the work I've done in (counting summers I
>worked for the battalion) three years of JROTC experience. My good records,
>advanced levels of training, and work to and beyond the extent of my duties
>should count for something. But, despite my complaints, they don't. And I
>think many of you will agree with my standpoint. My level of military customs,
>training, and knowledge is well above that of many other cadets. Does this
>mean nothing? Are those three years in green merely barely readable lines in
>my academic record? Is this really fair? I don't think so, and I personally
>want to say something to my commanders about it. I hope others of you do as
>well. Contact me via e-mail or this group and we'll try our best to change
>things?
This is the exact attitude that needs to be stomped out with regard to ribbons.
The more ribbons are given out, the cheaper they all become. Ribbons aren't
something you deserve, they are something you earn. JROTC ribbons mean
nothing once you advance to ROTC, and ROTC ribbons have no business being
worn once a person reaches active duty. You want to know a good reason
for this? Not every unit gives out ribbons the same way, and some officer
training programs (notably the academies) don't give out any at all. Should
a person graduating ROTC from Podunk U. show up to his first command wearing
5 rows of ribbons, while his C.O. (a 3-tour vet of Vietnam) only has 4? No.
By "clearing the slate" as you move up, this sort of nonesense is prevented.
Say something to your commanders about this matter if you like, but it would
likely be the worst possible thing you could do to become known in your unit.
You will merely come across to your commanders as someone who is worried
about pinning things on his shirt and impressing people...not a good
way to start (looks very immature and self-centered).
--
Jeff Uphoff -- "Uppie" | "The secret to good teaching is sincerity. As
jup...@astro.phys.vt.edu | As soon as you learn to fake that, you've got
jup...@uppieland.async.vt.edu | it made."
Barclay
>Yo fellow cadets and officers!
>
>I'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the ribbons
>and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to ROTC
> or any of the academies.
[much info on high school record deleted]
The same thing happens when you graduate to active duty.
Better get used to it!
I recently watched all my ROTC buddies, who previously had chests full of
ribbons, get their ("butter") bars pinned-on in blank, unadorned uniforms.
It's almost a cliche that nobody cares what you did in your previous job
(or in college or in high school, etc.), they only care about your performance
NOW.
Besides, if your experience made you such a hot shot, everyone will know it,
ribbons or no. (By the same token, ribbons on a bone-head are disgusting)
Best of luck at NCSU,
David Barclay
vang...@leland.stanford.edu
Stanford University, CA
The opinions expressed above are mine alone. They should not be construed as
the policy of The Stanford Daily or Stanford University.
Christopher D. Nachand
>
>Yo fellow cadets and officers!
>
>I 'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the
>ribbons and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to
>ROTC or any of the academies. I spent two and a half years in the Army JROTC
>Battalion at Avery County (North Carolina) High School, earning the following
{stuff about positions held, etc. deleted}
>So I think I should get ribbons for the work I've done in (counting summers I
>worked for the battalion) three years of JROTC experience. My good records,
>advanced levels of training, and work to and beyond the extent of my duties
>should count for something. But, despite my complaints, they don't. And I
>think many of you will agree with my standpoint. My level of military
>customs,
First off, ribons don't show anything about what you're made of - I've been
in the reserves for 5 1/2 years, served in both Desert Shied and Storm, am
in charge of the training section for Nursing Service in my unit (250 soldiers
in Nursing alone), etc. Want to know how many ribons I have to show for the
enormous amount of work I do for my unit every month? ZERO. My reward is
knowing that my work is for the good of the unit and helps accomplish the
unit mission. My superiors respect me for the work I do, and I am well
received within the chain of command and with the soldiers I am in charge of.
"Bolo Badges" are just that - they may stop a bullet, but you won't impress
the soldiers around you with a chest full of brass if you can't handle the
weight/responsibility of doing your job. Your background experiences are
the reward you have gained and will take with you - use them to their full
extent and stop worrying about getting a pretty piece of cloth to pin on
your uniform. I think you will find this to be more of the attitude you
will encounter than the other way around ( at least from the folks who have
been in the "real" system for any amount of time...).
Hope this clears some things up, and that it didn't come across as a flame;
take it as some friendly counceling that will benefit you in the long run
(and ignore my lack of spelling ability...).
- Christopher D. Nachand
SGT, USAR NCOIC NESD
406th CSH, Denver, CO
Gulf Vet and former MSIII
>
>Ever looking upward (AIM HIGH),
>C 4/C Michael Christopher (Chris--sei) Morton
>Bravo (Bong) Flight
>AFROTC Detachment 595, NCSU
>
>***Military confrontation is merely sibling rivalry on steroids...***
>
--
Christopher D. Nachand * Sometimes you're * "Some of it's magic, and some of
nac...@CS.colostate.edu * the windshield, * it's tragic, but I've had a
Colorado St. U. * sometimes you're * good life all the way."
Computer Science Dept. * the bug. * - Jimmy Buffett
Barclay
>Yo fellow officers and cadets!
>
>I'm writing to mention how much of a shame it is that so few of the ribbons
>and awards earned in JROTC program experience can be carried over to ROTC or
>any of the academies.
The same thing happens when you graduate to active duty.
Better get used to it!
I recently watched all of my ROTC buddies, who previously had chests full of
ribbons, get their ("butter") bars pinned-on in blank, unadorned uniforms.
It's almost a cliche that nobody cares what you did in your previous job (or in
high school or in college, etc.), they only care about your performance NOW.
That's just how the world works. Concerning yourself with fairness will only
get you an ulcer.
Besides, if your experience made you such a hot shot, everyone will know it,
ribbons or no. (By the same token, ribbons on a bone-head are disgusting)
Best of luck at NCSU,
David Barclay
vang...@leland.stanford.edu
Stanford University, CA
The opinions expressed above are my own. The should not be construed as the