Proof: Judaism says that Jesus boils in excrement
moshe
that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
*Jesus*.
In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
(Jesus of Narareth) and "Christianity".
In quote #2, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
site "shemayisrael" says that the person being punished with boiling
excrement is "Yeshu".
"Yeshu", of course, is the name that Orthodox use when they refuse to
pronounce the name of Jesus / Yeshua.
In fact, the "Hebrew / English Dictionary" written by Dov ben Abba and
published by Signet has the following entry:
"Yeshu - Jesus".
(for those interested, the Hebrew spelling is yod-shin-vav )
In quote #3, the Reform rabbi whose credentials are shown at
http://www.geocities.com/ravlipman/rabbispage.htm
says that the person being punished with boiling excrement is
"the founder of Christianity".
In quote #4, the Jewish Encyclopedia Online, which is widely used by
secular Jewish people, explicitly says that Gittin 57a and Sanhedrin
106b of Talmud refer to Jesus.
Quotes #5 and #6 also refer to that Talmud passage in Gittin 57a, but
make no mention of Jesus.
So there you have some Orthodox Jewish people and some liberal Reform
Jewish people and some secular Jewish people all claiming that the
person being punished in boiling excrement in Gittin 57a of Talmud is
*Jesus*.
That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
writers of Talmud.
But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism *today*.
It's not just some insignificant fringe group making that claim.
There is a broad spectrum of Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews and secular
Jews claiming that Gittin 57a shows Jesus being punished in boiling
excrement.
So it is *disgusting* that Judaism is teaching that Jesus is being
punished in boiling excrement.
And it is *disgusting* when the followers of Judaism yell "lying
anti-Semite!" at every Christian who complains about Gittin 57a of
Talmud.
Here are the quotes and sources:
------------------begin quote #1------------------
The Weekly Parsha: A New Dimension
by Rabbi Heshy Grossman
PARSHAS VAYECHI
[snip]
2
Onkelos, the nephew of Titus wished to convert. Before doing so, he
magically raised the dead enemies of Israel, hoping to clarify the
truth.
"Who is important in that world?", he asked of Bila'am.
"Israel"
"Should one attach himself to them?"
"Do not inquire as to their peace or welfare all of your days (Devarim
23:7)...."
"He went and brought up the sinners of Israel [Yeshu]."
"Who is important in that world?"
"Israel"
"Should one attach himself to them?"
"Inquire as to their welfare, and do not look for their harm."
"What is the punishment of that man?"
"In boiling excrement, for it is said, 'All who mock the words of the
Sages are sentenced to boil in excrement' "
"Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the
prophets of the idol-worshipping nations." (Gittin 57a)
In the same manner that man worships the forces that define his very
self, he is also judged by the same measure with which he lived his
life, his punishment in the next world a mirror image of his earthly
existence.
Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day.
When Moshe Rabbeinu does not appear at the appointed time, Klal
Yisrael was tossed into turmoil. The agent of G-d was missing, where
were they to turn?
Here lies the sin of the Golden Calf. That is: when Moshe Rabbeinu no
longer transmits the word of G-d, we will produce a worldly
substitute, an alternative approach to the law.
Where does the split of Christianity begin?
Our Sages explain.
Rebbe Yehoshua ben Perachiah, was third in line after Antigonos Ish
Socho in receiving the Torah from Shimon HaTzaddik, last of the Anshei
Kneses HaGedolah. After a forced exile in Alexandria, he returns to
Jerusalem, accompanied by his students, among them Yeshu HaNotzri.
Along the way, they stop at an inn, where they are treated with great
honor.
"How pleasant is this innkeeper!", said Rebbe Yehoshua ben Perachiah,
praising her meritorious ways.
"But, Rebbe, her eyes are quite round!", said Yeshu HaNotzri.
"Rasha!", he declared, "Is that were you are involved in?". He
proceeded to place him in Cherem...." (Sotah 47a - uncensored version
of the Talmud)
Yeshu is sent away not for looking at pretty women, but for asuming
that his Rebbe had been doing the same. He makes light of the words of
the Sages, mocking the Torah they represent.
It is here that our ways part, in the Bais HaMedrash of Rebbe Yehoshua
ben Perachiah.
Before the death of Shimon HaTzaddik, no dispute is ever recorded, and
none is possible. As part of the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah, a body of
judges with numerous prophets among them, the truth of their Torah was
eminently undeniable. With the death of Ezra, the last of the
prophets, the Torah takes new form, henceforth it is the Oral Torah of
the rabbis that sets the tone of Jewish life and law.
Antigonos Ish Socho receives the Torah from Shimon HaTzaddik, witness
still to the heavenly revelation of prophetic insight. Yossi ben
Yo'ezer and Yossi ben Yochanan are still privy to a Torah of an
elevated nature, receiving the word from a teacher who saw the vision
of a higher world.
But, suddenly, that world turns black, the last light flickers and
fades.
Enter a world where the truth can be denied.
While the Torah SheB'Ktav bears heaven's imprimatur, an unimpeachable
stamp of approval, the Torah SheBa'al Peh rests upon the authority of
the Sages; the respect for their words and the willingness to humble
one's self before their analysis of G-d's will.
Moshe Rabbeinu is missing, and it is precisely at this point that the
faint of heart proffer their golden substitute.
In the desert, an Egel HaZahav emerges. Many years later, from the
very Bais Medrash where Torah goes forth to the world, Yeshu rejects
the Rabbinic basis of Torah SheBa'al Peh, producing a new god of his
own. 'I am Moshe Rabbeinu', he declares, concocting a new testament
that purports to continue the prophetic vision of an earlier time.
Human waste is the natural by-product of man's digestive system.
Siphoning off the valuable nutrients that sustain his life, the body
simultaneously disposes the superfluous components that will hinder
healthy growth.
It is those substances that bear a particularly foul odor.
Having once been connected to life itself, the final separation leaves
a vacuum that is never attractive.
The Torah is life itself, whether written or oral.
Yeshu leaves the Bais Medrash, repository of life. Flushed from the
seat of humanity, he descends into a boiling pot of waste, the
defining picture of his own existence.
From there he is forced to concede, Israel is the heart of life.
Unlike the wicked prophets of the nations, Christianity's entire being
is predicated on its claim to Torah and the G-d of Israel. It is their
rise to power that ultimately seals their fate, their position
validating the basis of our faith.
"Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the
prophets of the idol-worshipping nations."
- Gittin 57a of Talmud as quoted at
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/dimension/archives/vayechi60.htm
----------------------end quote #1-----------------
----------------------begin quote #2------------------
(a) Bil'am (like Titus), whose spirit Unklus also conjured up,
conceded that Yisrael was important in this world, and he too, advised
against joining forces with them. When Unklus asked ...
1. ... him what his lot was in the other world - he replied that, in
return for his plot causing Yisrael to commit adultery with the
daughters of Mo'av, he was burned daily in boiling semen.
2. ... Yeshu the same question, he replied - that he was burned daily
in boiling excrement, which, as Chazal have said, is the end of those
who mock their words.
- Gittin 56b-57a as cited at
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/gitin/reviewa/gi-ra-57.htm
----------------------end quote #2-------------------
----------------------begin quote #3------------
The Talmud relates a story about Onkelos, son of Clonicus. This is the
Onkelos who wrote the standard (Aramaic) translation (Targum) on the
Torah. He was a gentile and wanted to become a proselyte. He wanted to
know what the Jews were and what their destiny would be in the next
world. This Onkelos was the nephew of Titus.
Using the occult arts, Onkelos communicated with his uncle Titus, who
was already dead. He asked him, "What nation is greatest in the World
to Come?"
"The greatest nation in the next world," replied the shade, "is the
Jewish nation."
"I wish to join them as a proselyte," said Onkelos. "What advice can
you give me?"
"It is very hard to observe the Jewish religion. They have many
commandments that they must keep."
"How are you judged in the next world?"
"I am judged with the same fate that I decreed for myself. Everyday I
am burned and my ashes are ground and scattered to the wind. Every day
these ashes are gathered and re-formed into my body. Then I am burned
again, and my ashes are again scattered over the seven seas."
[Titus had commanded that his followers do this so that God would not
be able to find him and punish him for his deeds.]
After Onkelos heard this from Titus, he wanted to hear Balaam's
advice. He communicated with him from beyond the grave in the same
way.
"What nation is the most important in the next world?"
"The Israelites are the most important."
"What is your advice? Should I become a proselyte and join them?"
"Do not seek their peace or good as long as the world exists."
"How are you punished in the world to come?"
"I am immersed in boiling semen."
[Balaam was punished in this manner for causing the Israelites to
behave lasciviously with the Midianite girls.]
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
"Why is this?"
"It is taught, 'Whoever laughs at the words of the Jewish sages is
punished in boiling excrement."
- Gittin 56b-57a of the Talmud as cited by Rabbi David E. Lipman,
rabbi of Temple Brith Shalom in Prescott, Arizona, at
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
-----------end quote #3--------------
-----------begin quote #4------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
- quoted from Jewish Encyclopedia online found at
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=161&letter=B&search=Balaam
[This source differs from the other 2 in that it says that Jesus is
the one boiling in semen rather than the one boiling in excrement. -
moshe]
----------------end quote #4-------------------
----------------begin quote #5---------------------------
Onkelos, the son of Kalonikus, was the son of Titus' sister. He wanted
to convert to Judaism. After Titus died, Onkelos made contact with his
spirit, and asked him: "Who is considered important in that world?"
Titus replied: "Israel."
Onkelos asked: "Is it worthwhile to join them?" Titus replied: "Their
commandments are many and you will be unable to fulfill them. Go and
torment them in this world, and you will be great, as the verse (Eicha
1:5) states: Her tormentors are great, her enemies are serene- All who
torment Israel become great."
Onkelos then asked him: "How are you being punished?" Titus said to
him: "According to what I brought upon myself. Every day they gather
my ashes, judge me, burn me, and spread my ashes on the seven seas."
Onkelos then went and raised the spirit of Bilam and said to him: "Who
is considered important in that world?" Bilam said to him: "Israel."
Onkelos asked: "Is it worthwhile to join them?" Bilam said: Do not
seek their peace nor their welfare all of your days (Deuteronomy
23:7).
He [Onkelos] said to him: "How are you being punished?" He said to
him: "In boiling semen."
He [Onkelos then] went, raised the spirit of a renegade Jew and said
to him: "Who is considered important in that world?" He replied:
"Israel."
Onkelos asked: "Is it worthwhile to join them?" He said to him: "Seek
their welfare but do not seek to do them harm, for all who harm them,
it is as if they have harmed the apple of His eye."
Onkelos said to him: "How are you being punished?" He replied: "In
boiling feces."
[And the reason why he received this punishment is] as Mar said:
Anyone who ridicules the words of the Sages is punished by [being
placed in] boiling feces.
- Gittin 56b-57a of the Talmud as quoted from the Chabad Online
Network at
http://www.thethreeweeks.com/history/second3.html
-----------------------end quote #5-------------------
----------------------begin quote #6-----------------
This image is picked up in the Gemara (Gittin), which tells of Onkelos
(who in addition to translating the Torah into Aramaic, was also the
grand-nephew of the Roman Emperor Titus) asking various people in the
World-to-Come for advice on whether he should convert to Judaism. When
he came to Balaam (who tempted the Jewish men with Middianite women -
Numbers 25:1), he found him 'boiling in a vat of boiling semen'.
- Gittin 56b-57a as cited by Rabbi Henoch Dov at
http://rabbihenochdov.com/parshas/tisha.htm
---------------------end quote #6-------------
MagicMush
The truth is, judaism started out as wierd laws, like all boys should have
their foreskin chopped off, then it turned into a psycho cult, with the
fantasy that "god favours them" and that they are all descendents from
Abraham, even when they have married within Irish and northern genes. Pfff.
Gimme a break. Nice cult.
M.
"moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com...
MagicMush
everything.
M.
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:Ghboc.16556$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> JC has been dead for over two millennia now.
> There's nothing left to boil in any substance, even your brain matter
> boiling through the top of your head, "moshe..."
>
> TK9
>
>
MagicMush
Oh really Mary? Please continue. Tell me more.
M.
"Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40a15f48$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Homosexuality is pure evil...I don't care what society says!!!
>
>
> "MagicMush" <wakeups...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:00doc.448733$Ig.41823@pd7tw2no...
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Mary Hogan
for too long....
Are you short...mush?
"Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40a1648a$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> My...you think you can demand from people....What is that complex called?
> You my friend have a lot of chutzpah!!
>
>
> "MagicMush" <wakeups...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:atdoc.448377$oR5.168276@pd7tw3no...
Mary Hogan
your life...and in that tome....homosexuality is an abomination to God!!
Now...you probably are a reprobate too...
Many, many sadistic lifestyles....
"Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40a164dd$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
MagicMush
M.
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10a2oqi...@news.supernews.com...
> Mary Hogan wrote:
> > Homosexuality is pure evil...I don't care what society says!!!
> >
> >
> The long term results of sodomy (homo or hetero) are not pretty.
>
> More detail I will not go into.
>
MagicMush
You mean, from the inception of your birth?
M
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:xudoc.16706$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
> news:10a2oqi...@news.supernews.com...
> > Mary Hogan wrote:
> > > Homosexuality is pure evil...I don't care what society says!!!
> > >
> > >
> > The long term results of sodomy (homo or hetero) are not pretty.
> >
> > More detail I will not go into.
>
> Thank you.
> From start, this thread has been nothing more than exercise in filth....
>
> TK9
>
>
Mary Hogan
They don't make sense.
There is depth to this life....there sure is...you either grow...or rot!
"MagicMush" <wakeups...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6Ddoc.423851$Pk3.72283@pd7tw1no...
> Actually Mary, truth be told, I'm 6'4". I get comments on my height all
the
> time, specially with short people who can't reach high shelves.
>
> M.
>
> "Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
> news:40a16564$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Yechidah
The Real Terrorists
By Rabbi David Eidensohn
On September 11 2,002, we will recall the bombings at the World
Trade Center and the Pentagon, as well as the planes filled with passengers
forced down by Islamic fanatics. Three thousand people died at their desks
and in desperate rescue efforts at the World Trade Center. The economy was
devastated. Whereas the year before September 11 had almost two hundred
billion dollars in surplus, the year after the bombing will probably have
almost two hundred billion dollars in deficit. America took its revenge in
Afghanistan, waging a war that costs billions of dollars, but without in any
serious way disrupting the threat posed by Islamic militants. Experts
discuss the possibility of new attacks, and there seems no way to stop them.
While we fully applaud the present efforts to contain the threat
of Islamic militancy, there may be bigger problems. The war against
terrorism is about the death of three thousand people. The Gay Lobby has
caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people from HIV and AIDS.
These diseases used to be eradicated by state health officials, but now are
off the list of infectious diseases. Why are we not concerned about such a
waste of human life? The economic disruption from AIDS and HIV is enormous,
HIV/AIDS ruins private health insurance, threatens the viability of
hospitals and the entire health care system. Any expensive new drug for HIV
and AIDS simply drives state and local government closer to bankruptcy.
Why then is America not fighting the Gay Lobby? Why is it
sponsoring it with large funding? Why does it call anyone who opposes the
Gay Lobby "hater"? What essentially is the difference between the Gay Lobby
and militant Islamists?
Recently (according to the Center of Disease Control update
publication), a man with TB was chained to his hospital bed, because he was
caught sneaking out of the hotel to buy a beer. Tuberculosis is on the state
Infectious Disease List, and anyone who violates quarantine and exposes the
public to danger can be literally chained to his bed. The gays did not want
to be chained to their beds. They want freedom to infect, and the
politicians in New York State, California, Florida and other Gay Lobby
states gave it to them. These states took AIDS and HIV off of the list of
Infectious Diseases. The gays then went out an infected hundreds and
thousands of people, and nobody can stop them. Only recently, have states
begun to retreat from the most egregious failures of the HIV Confidentiality
Bills. At one time, mothers had babies in hospitals in New York, and took
blood tests for HIV and AIDS. The mother did not know she was infected, but
the hospital and the state knew that the mother had HIV. They did not tell
her, and she went home, nursed her baby and killed it. The New York Times
thundered against this baby killing, but nobody listened for a long time.
This is the power of the Gay Lobby.
This part of the HIV Confidentiality Law has recently been revised, but HIV
and AIDS are still not on the Infectious Disease list of New York State. The
result is a massive epidemic. The Gay Lobby rejoices at its freedom to
infect, but for those infected, and especially for those who died, there is
no rejoicing. The political terrorism of the Gay Lobby has resulted in the
known deaths of almost half a million people, according to the Center for
Disease Control. Only 3,000 people died at the World Trade Center, less then
one percent of those killed by the Gay Lobby! Why do we make war on the
Islamist militants and yet support, with billions of dollars, the Gay Lobby?
Here are the facts (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats.htm) from the Federal
Center of Disease Control, as of June, 2001: 1) Cumulative number of AIDS
cases reported to CDC is 793,026. Adult and adolescent AIDS cases total
784,032 with 649,186 cases in males and 134,845 cases in females. Through
the same time period, 8,994 AIDS cases were reported in children under age
13.Total deaths of persons reported with AIDS are 457,667, including 452,111
adults and adolescents, and 5,168 children under age 15, and 388 persons
whose age at death is unknown."
Notice that the Center of Disease Control does not say that 793,026 people
have gotten AIDS in America. It says, "The cumulative number of AIDS cases
reported to CDC is 793,026." The truth is that nobody knows how many people
have AIDS in America, and the educated guess is that there are almost a
million people with AIDS. Since state law does not regulate AIDS, there is
no accurate way to determine how many people have AIDS. Unlike syphilis and
other Sexually Transmitted Diseases, AIDS and HIV are not regulated by the
state and therefore we have no accurate statistics, only a number of cases
"reported."
Why did the states agree to take AIDS and HIV off of the list of infectious
diseases? The Gay Lobby complained that if state medical officials knew that
someone had HIV, this information may be released, and would lead to bigotry
and discrimination. Is this a reason to kill over 5,000 children? These laws
have been around since the eighties, and the states know exactly how
dangerous they are, and yet, the states continue to keep HIV and AIDS off of
the list of infectious diseases, leading to more deaths.
Do American children have a mortal enemy on the par of the Gay Lobby?
The Center of Disease Control stats at
ww.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1301/table25.htm tell a terrifying story. In 1993,
there were 173,984 living people in America with AIDS. By 2,000, the number
of people with AIDS hit 338,978. Thus, from 1993 to 2000, in only seven
years, the AIDS population doubled, from 173,984 to 338,978. (Double 173,984
is 347,868.) What country knowingly passes laws to permit the spread of a
terrible and deadly disease? Diversity does not mean dealing death. The Gay
Lobby defines diversity as the privilege to kill.
The key is to remember that the government can stop a disease by two
methods, reporting and quarantine. If someone has TB, such as the fellow
chained to his bed we mentioned earlier, he cannot infect others. He must
report people he could have infected. Every Sexually Transmitted Disease on
the Infectious Disease List of a state is controlled and eventually may
disappear. Every person who comes to a doctor for help for a listed disease
reports partners and acts to insure that the infection is not spread. Had
HIV and AIDS been on the Infectious Disease Lists of New York State,
California and Florida, decades ago when the disease first appeared, today
there would be very, very few cases. Instead, we have fifty thousand new
cases in the past year, a rise of 25% over the early rates of 40,000 per
year. Of these, from July 2000 to June 2001, a 12-month period, 194 babies
got AIDS, an utterly unnecessary tragedy.
Many states had zero cases of pediatric AIDS, but guess who had many cases?
Of course: the states with large number of pediatric AIDS were those who
took AIDS and HIV off the Infectious Disease Lists. Here are the figures
(http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1301/fig5.htm): New York - 38 cases,
Florida - 27, California - 18. Let us pause and think what pediatric AIDS
means. A baby is born with AIDS, and will probably have a hideous and
tortuous life, filled with powerful medications that will utterly destroy
any hope of a normal life, many hospital stays, and the probability of a
lingering and wasting death. Thus does the Gay Lobby snuff out an innocent
and sweet human soul. As for those who don't care about human life, look at
it this way: A baby with AIDS costs the taxpayer a fortune, possibly
hundreds of thousands of dollars. A state with 37 pediatric AIDS cases must
spend millions of dollars.
There are two categories of AIDS victims, one cumulative, including all of
the people who had died as well as the living, and the other, a list of
those living with HIV. We mentioned before that the CDC lists over 700,000
people who have AIDS or who have died of AIDS. Another chart at
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1301/table1.htm tells us how many living
people in America have HIV/AIDS. The total is 466,023. Where are the
HIV/AIDS victims concentrated? Of course, they are concentrated in Gay Lobby
states, like New York, Florida and California. New York, Florida and New
York are far out in front in the pack, with 58k in Florida, 54k in New York,
and 44k in California. These three states, only three, have one third of the
entire HIV/AIDS cases in America. The 58,000 plus people in Florida
struggling with HIV and AIDS owe their condition to the Gay Lobby and the
politicians who voted to remove HIV and AIDS from the regular list of
infectious diseases.
The Islamist militants are evil because they kill, but the Gays kill far
more people. The militant Islamists are reviled for their hate of the
Infidel. However, the Gay Lobby is right out there in hate, spreading the
lie and calumny that biblical people are inciters, and that anyone who
opposes the Gay Lobby is a homophobe. In our culture, someone who is a hater
or inciter might as well leave town, if he can escape without injury.
Eventually, such a person can lose basic civil rights. The Gay Lobby wants
to marginalize religious people.
Google is the major search engine on the Internet. I applied to advertise my
site, gendercentral.com, and Google refused because I am a "hater." I
objected, and asked where the hate was? Is opposing the Gay Lobby's
political agenda such as HIV Confidentiality Bills "hate"? Does Google
refuse to advertise Gay sites that are anti-biblical? The great goal of the
Gay Lobby is to control the media, something it already does on television
and the major newspapers. Now it wants to silence family people on the
Internet. The Directory project called DMOZ, used by major search engines,
in an opportunity for the Gay Lobby, and there are others. Do you think the
Directories that select sites will select those not politically correct;
especially those considered "hate" sites?
The Islamist terrorists killed people and burnt buildings. They did not
destroy families, marriage or children on a national level. The Gay Lobby
destroys marriage, families, women and children on a national level.
What civilization allows perverse people to raise their children? The Gay
Lobby in New York City and throughout the country is teaching little
children confusing things about homosexuality. Doesn't anyone care? First,
we give the Gay Lobby our health, and allow them to kill babies, children
and adults with HIV and AIDS. Then we turn our children over to them for
education. The Gay Lobby teaches children to hate people who are biblical
and eschew homosexuality. Is this not terror? The Islamists are known to
kidnap American children and sell them as brides, and right now, our State
Department is doing its best to maintain proper relations with the Saudis
even if some women have to suffer. This is terrible, but the Gay Lobby is
ruining the health and lives of millions of children, and we support it.
What civilization in history surrenders its women and daughters to perverse
people? Lesbians and radical feminists have succeeded in creating an
atmosphere in America whereby a woman is ashamed if she stays home with the
children. Only 14% of American women are full time housewives. It has become
a disgrace. Of course, women who imbibe all of this feminism cannot function
as wives or mothers, and they don't. Fifty percent of new marriages end in
divorce. Most Americans (49%) simply refuse to marry; it is that awful. We
don't even reproduce ourselves, because having children in such a society is
a rough experience.
What civilization turns over to its perverts the power to create
the culture? According to Maureen Dowd of the New York Times, ABC television
has no family shows, only gay and dysfunctional families. We send our
children to public school to be brain washed by the Gay Lobby, and then to
college, where our children are taught all kinds of things, including the
imperative to offer their bodies for free sex. How can people who have slept
with a hundred (maybe a thousand) people by the age of twenty-five marry and
raise a normal family?
September 11 is about evil fanatics who mass-murdered people and
destroyed buildings. When will we remember the fanatics who attacked and
destroyed our children and families, our culture and civilization?
Can we truly fight the Islamist killers when, in our own
country, people are converting to their religion in order to escape the
disaster of Western family life?
MagicMush
> They don't make sense.
Funny, that crossed my mind as well. :)
M.
"Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:40a16...@corp.newsgroups.com...
MagicMush
Right. Right.
You do realize spouting off hate towards gays is a hate-crime right?
M.
"Yechidah" <TheHeal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CPdoc.16687$V97....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Patricia Heil
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10a2n72...@news.supernews.com...
> moshe wrote:
> > Here are 6 quotes from *Jewish* Web sites which either quote or refer
> > that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
> >
> > Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
> > the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> > *Jesus*.
> >
> > In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> > site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
> > preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
> > (Jesus of Narareth) and "Christianity".
>
> He wa a disciple of Yehoshua ben Perachia and was executed for sorcery
> and enticement to apostacy during the reign of Alewxander Jannaeus some
> 80 years before your J* is supposed to have been born.
>
> Get it straight Morris.
>
Rehabilitated Jew
off as Hitler's bitch. Let's see: you want to create a master race, you hate
everyone that is different from you, you hate pagans, you hate blacks, you hate
Jews (although you won't admit it), you are in favor of genocide, and now you
think that Aids is a terrorist plot and homosexuals should be killed. Yup, you
are Hitler.
Heil Yechidah!
MagicMush
You rock rehabilitated jew!
M.
"Rehabilitated Jew" <a...@a.com> wrote in message
news:40A17AD9...@a.com...
TonyaK9
better
> off as Hitler's bitch. Let's see: you want to create a master race, you
hate
> everyone that is different from you, you hate pagans, you hate blacks,
you hate
> Jews (although you won't admit it), you are in favor of genocide, and now
you
> think that Aids is a terrorist plot and homosexuals should be killed. Yup,
you
> are Hitler.
> Heil Yechidah!
How does it feel to get compliments from the likes of MagicMush?...
TK9
MagicMush
therapy, he should feel elated.
M.
"TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:XOfoc.16856$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Susan Cohen
> that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
>
> Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
> the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> *Jesus*.
You lie, of course.
>
> In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
> preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
> (Jesus of Narareth)
Nope. It was someone else, as Jan Pompe also points out.
> and "Christianity".
>
> In quote #2, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> site "shemayisrael" says that the person being punished with boiling
> excrement is "Yeshu".
> "Yeshu", of course, is the name that Orthodox use when they refuse to
> pronounce the name of Jesus / Yeshua.
No, it isn't, actually.
> In fact, the "Hebrew / English Dictionary" written by Dov ben Abba and
> published by Signet has the following entry:
> "Yeshu - Jesus".
Big deal; I've never heard any Orthodox (or any other type) of Jew ever use
the name "Yeshu" when discussing Jesus.
> (for those interested, the Hebrew spelling is yod-shin-vav )
>
> In quote #3, the Reform rabbi
& there you go.
whose credentials are shown at
> http://www.geocities.com/ravlipman/rabbispage.htm
yawn.
> says that the person being punished with boiling excrement is
> "the founder of Christianity".
Which ought to tell everyone just how "qualified" this rabbi is.
Jesus wasn't the founder of Xianity.
>
> In quote #4, the Jewish Encyclopedia Online, which is widely used by
> secular
Yes, SECULAR - UNLEARNED.
Jewish people, explicitly says that Gittin 57a and Sanhedrin
> 106b of Talmud refer to Jesus.
Of course it does - and you pinpoint the reason why they do yourself: they
don;t know what they're talking about.
>
> Quotes #5 and #6 also refer to that Talmud passage in Gittin 57a, but
> make no mention of Jesus.
Of course. There you go.
>
> So there you have some Orthodox Jewish people and some liberal Reform
> Jewish people and some secular Jewish people all claiming that the
> person being punished in boiling excrement in Gittin 57a of Talmud is
> *Jesus*.
You LIE. Only the unlearned Jews do.
> That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
> writers of Talmud.
No, Jews don't pervert Talmud - bigots like you try to do so.
> But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism *today*.
I see - only Jews have to be perfect & make no mistakes, or are ever allowed
to be stupid - that's a privilege you reserve for yourself. Well, you're
certainly making full use of it.
> It's not just some insignificant fringe group making that claim.
Yes, it most certainly is.
> There is a broad spectrum of Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews and secular
> Jews claiming that Gittin 57a shows Jesus being punished in boiling
> excrement.
No, there isn't.
>
> So it is *disgusting* that Judaism is teaching that Jesus is being
> punished in boiling excrement.
No, it isn't, even if it were true.
It's only your reverence for a heretic (if he even existed) that makes it
disugsting to *you*.
> And it is *disgusting* when the followers of Judaism yell "lying
> anti-Semite!" at every Christian who complains about Gittin 57a of
> Talmud.
No, it isn't.
It's only the truth.
I always yell "Jew-hater" at anyone who deliberately lies about the Talmud.
Now, let's talk about the Jew-hatred in Xian scriptures.....
Susan
Jan Pompe
> Who said anything about anal sex? Is that where your head is?
>
> M.
>
No metal illness is my specialty.
You provide good example of a PD.
Jan Pompe
> Straight? Morris?! LOL.
>
>
Yup I know 'tis futile.
Rehabilitated Jew
blinded by politics or religiion. I don't care who agrees with me or compliments
me.
moshe
> But moshe we all know you haven't read it like
> we have, or you would know there is absolutely
> no reference to anybody named Yehoshua in the
> section you're talking about.
****************
I *have* read the entire passage.
I never said that the name of Jesus appears on that Talmud page.
I said that the rabbis had *interpreted* the passage to refer to
Jesus.
And I *proved* it.
If you had actually read my post, you would have seen that I said:
"Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one
of
the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
*Jesus*."
"That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
writers of Talmud.
But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism."
******************
> It doesn't matter what
> anybody ways, it matters what the Talmud says
> and the Talmud doesn't say it. Your stupidity
> trips you up every time.
***************
The principle that you have just declared would destroy almost every
interpretation made by every rabbi in history.
For example, according to the principle that you just declared, Isaiah
11 and Zechariah 9:9 and Daniel 7:13 could not possibly be about
Messiah, since the word "Messiah" does not appear in any of those
verses.
And any rabbi who declares that those verses refer to Messiah must be
dishonestly interpreting those verses.
When you say that "stupidity" is the cause of a person seeing Jesus in
Gittin 57a, you accuse the Orthodox rabbis at shemayisrael.com of
"stupidity", because they *do* interpret a reference to Jesus in that
passage.
- moshe
moshe
> "Nancy" <heartfo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:18033-40A...@storefull-3154.bay.webtv.net...
> > Jesus in the Talmud
> > http:// .com/talmud.htm
> -----------
> Another antisemitic website, modeled after Come-and-Hear and Biblebelievers.
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
******************
I do not know whether the above sites are anti-Semitic or not.
But I do know that you keep claiming that "anti-Judaism" =
"anti-Semitism", which is a dishonest comparison.
Anti-Judaism says that the Talmud is stupid.
Anti-Semitism says that Jews are stupid.
Big difference.
But you like to throw the word "anti-Semite" at anything that moves.
Since you are anti-New Testament, does that also mean that you are by
definition "anti-Gentile"?
- moshe
moshe
> > that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
> >
> > Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
> > the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> > *Jesus*.
> >
> > In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> > site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
> > preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
> > (Jesus of Narareth) and "Christianity".
>
> and enticement to apostacy during the reign of Alewxander Jannaeus some
> 80 years before your J* is supposed to have been born.
>
> Get it straight Morris.
****************************
I am not the one who interpreted Gittin 57a to be a reference to Jesus
of Nazareth.
The Orthodox rabbis and Reform rabbis and the Jewish Encyclopedia
interpreted Gittin 57a to be a reference to Jesus of Nazareth, as I
proved with quotes and Web links.
Get it straight, Jan.
- moshe
Jan Pompe
It's just copying the way Xians translated it when looking for
references to J* they thought they had found it & we hate to disapoint.
You'll get a clearer picture here (p15):
moshe
> "Ben Mikra" <ben_...@mail2.israel.com> wrote in message
> news:40a12f99$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> | "moshe" wrote
> | : Here are 6 quotes from *Jewish* Web sites which either quote or refer
> that
> | that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
> | *But what does our Creator say about false prophets such as Jesus?
> |
> | Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall
> | neither add to it, nor subtract from it. If there will arise among you a
> | prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and
> | the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says,
> "Let
> | us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"
> | you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream;
> | for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love
> the
> | Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall
> follow
> | the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice,
> worship
> | Him, and cleave to Him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall
> | be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who
> | brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house
> of
> | bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God,
> | commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.
> | Devarim 13:1-6
> Yasher Koach, Ben. Good to read those words again and again and again.
>
>
> YS
***************
But you overlook an obvious problem.
Followers of Judaism here said that only a lying anti-Semite would
claim that Gittin 57a refers to Jesus.
I cited 4 rabbinic quotes from Jewish sources which stated that Gittin
57a refers to Jesus.
Which means one of the following:
1. The rabbis I quoted are lying anti-Semites
or
2. The followers of Judaism here sinned by calling those rabbis lying
anti-Semites
Which means that either the rabbis are guilty of sin, or the followers
of Judaism here are guilty of sin.
Take your pick.
- moshe
Jan Pompe
We-d be right.
Patricia Heil
agree with you are bigots twisting the Talmud and
other people who, like you, haven't read the original.
Shmuel Playfair
[Nancy]
> > > Jesus in the Talmud
> > > http:// .com/talmud.htm
[Cindy S]
> > Another antisemitic website, modeled after Come-and-Hear
> > and Biblebelievers.
[Morris O]
> I do not know whether the above sites are anti-Semitic or not.
>
> But I do know that you keep claiming that "anti-Judaism" =
> "anti-Semitism", which is a dishonest comparison.
>
> Anti-Judaism says that the Talmud is stupid.
>
> Anti-Semitism says that Jews are stupid.
>
> Big difference.
[Shmuel] "The Talmud is stupid", but the Jews who wrote,
preserve, study and learn from the Talmud are not stupid?
How can that be?
___
[Morris O continued]
> But you like to throw the word "anti-Semite" at anything that moves.
[Shmuel] Not true! There are many movers whom she does not refer
to as "anti-Semite".
___
[Morris O continued]
> Since you are anti-New Testament, does that also mean that you
> are by definition "anti-Gentile"?
[Shmuel] No, it means that she is against the idolatry and
against the Torahlessness (Lawlessness) expressed by those
who falsely interpret the so called "New Testament".
moshe
> "moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com...
> > Here are 6 quotes from *Jewish* Web sites which either quote or refer
> > that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
> >
> > Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
> > the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> > *Jesus*.
>
> You lie, of course.
> >
> > In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> > site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
> > preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
> > (Jesus of Narareth)
>
> Nope. It was someone else, as Jan Pompe also points out.
****************************
See next comment.
*****************************
> > and "Christianity".
******************************
You see, Susan, when you claim that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is not Jesus of
Nazareth, you neglect to refute the fact that the article says that it
is the "Yeshu HaNotzri" who is associated with the beginning of
"Christianity".
*******************************
> > In quote #2, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> > site "shemayisrael" says that the person being punished with boiling
> > excrement is "Yeshu".
> > "Yeshu", of course, is the name that Orthodox use when they refuse to
> > pronounce the name of Jesus / Yeshua.
>
> No, it isn't, actually.
***************
See below
***************
>
> > In fact, the "Hebrew / English Dictionary" written by Dov ben Abba and
> > published by Signet has the following entry:
> > "Yeshu - Jesus".
>
> Big deal; I've never heard any Orthodox (or any other type) of Jew ever use
> the name "Yeshu" when discussing Jesus.
*******************
Would you accept the word of the Orthodox Union Web site?
They say:
---------begin quote---------
Judaism 101
A Glossary of Basic Jewish Terms and Concepts
B - C
B.C.E. - relating to a system of historical dating of events;
specifically, Before the Common Era; that is, before the birth of
Jesus. The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri,"
Jesus of Nazareth, the founder of Christianity. This term corresponds
to B.C.. Compare to C.E., which is in the Common Era.
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
------------end quote-----------
Another example from a Lubavitch Web site:
------------begin quote-----------
Originally, the Ba'al Haturim wrote: "bekirbecha navi - zu ha'ishah
ubenah" - The words "bekirbecha navi" have the numerical value of 387,
the same as the numerical value of the words "zu ha'ishah ubnah" -
referring to the infamous mother who brought to the world a son ("oto
ha'ish" - Yeshu hanotzri) who became founder of Christianity. He tried
to impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as
Mashiach. Ultimately, he was put to death.
- quoted from
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/47.htm
---------end quote----------
And here is an example from an anti-missionary Web site:
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
is the name of a very lengthy article at
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
You can see the credentials of the rabbi who wrote the article by
going
to this other page at his Web site:
http://koshertorah.com/rabbi.html
That page shows that he is an Orthodox rabbi who runs an
anti-missionary school called "Yeshivat Benei N'vi'im".
**********************
> > (for those interested, the Hebrew spelling is yod-shin-vav )
> >
> > In quote #3, the Reform rabbi
>
> & there you go.
>
> whose credentials are shown at
> > http://www.geocities.com/ravlipman/rabbispage.htm
>
> yawn.
>
> > says that the person being punished with boiling excrement is
> > "the founder of Christianity".
>
> Which ought to tell everyone just how "qualified" this rabbi is.
> Jesus wasn't the founder of Xianity.
*******************
Then the Orthodox Union and the Lubavitch and the anti-missionary Web
site
are wrong when they say that "Yeshu HaNotzri" was the founder in the
quotes I provided above?
*******************
> >
> > In quote #4, the Jewish Encyclopedia Online, which is widely used by
> > secular
>
> Yes, SECULAR - UNLEARNED.
********************
But it was *written* by Jewish scholars.
********************
>
> Jewish people, explicitly says that Gittin 57a and Sanhedrin
> > 106b of Talmud refer to Jesus.
>
> Of course it does - and you pinpoint the reason why they do yourself: they
> don;t know what they're talking about.
******************
I pinpointed secular Jews as the *readers* of Jewish Encyclopedia.
*You* were the one who said that unlearned people *wrote* the
encyclopedia.
The Jewish Encyclopedia attributes that "Balaam" article to the
following people:
MORRIS JASTROW, Jr., Ph.D.,
Professor of Semitic Languages and Librarian in the University of
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pa.; Author of "Religion of the
Babylonians and Assyrians," etc.
IRA MAURICE PRICE, B.D., Ph.D.,
Professor of Semitic Languages and Literatures, University of Chicago,
Ill., Author of "The Monuments and the Old Testament," etc.
MARCUS JASTROW, Ph.D.
(Deceased),
Late Rabbi Emeritus of the Congregation Rodef Shalom, Philadelphia,
Pa.; Author of "Dictionary of the Talmud."
KAUFMANN KOHLER, Ph.D.
(Departments of Theology and Philosophy.)
President of Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati, Ohio; Rabbi Emeritus of
Temple Beth-El, New York.
"snip" the rest where Susan calls me a "stupid" "bigot" who "perverts
Talmud".
- moshe
moshe
******************
Now that is a truly amazing claim:
You say that the followers of Judaism attribute those Talmud
references to Jesus because they don't want to disappoint the
Christians.
But when the Christians make reference to such interpretations, the
followers of Judaism answer, "You lying anti-Semites!!!! Those
passages and those interpretations do not exist!!!!!"
Answers which are designed expressly to disappoint Christians.
Wanna try again?
- moshe
Jan Pompe
> "Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<Jghoc.186605$L31.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
>
>>"moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com...
>>
>>>Here are 6 quotes from *Jewish* Web sites which either quote or refer
>>>that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
>>>
>>>Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
>>>the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
>>>*Jesus*.
>>
>>You lie, of course.
>>
>>>In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
>>>site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
>>>preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
>>>(Jesus of Narareth)
>>
>>Nope. It was someone else, as Jan Pompe also points out.
>
>
> ****************************
>
> See next comment.
>
> *****************************
>
>
>>>and "Christianity".
>
>
> ******************************
>
> You see, Susan, when you claim that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is not Jesus of
> Nazareth, you neglect to refute the fact that the article says that it
> is the "Yeshu HaNotzri" who is associated with the beginning of
> "Christianity".
>
>
He is only associated with the beginning of Christianity in so far as he
was perhaps maybe even probably one opf the people on whom the J myth
was built but predated the supposed birth by around 100 years.
TonyaK9
> I just tell the truth. Yechidah is a Nazi, a bigot, and a racist. I am
not
> blinded by politics or religiion. I don't care who agrees with me or
compliments
> me.
>
> TonyaK9 wrote:
I harbor no love of Yechida: she is obviously quite a backward individual.
But the points on which you have chosen to attack her are without merits.
And of course, she is not a Nazi!
Understanding politics and religion adds to a person's ability to judge
adequately consequences of his/her actions. Those who like yourself choose
to be blind to political and religious implications of their speech end up
as fools, and in such cases even having a word "Jew" in your alias is not
going to help you.
TK9
TonyaK9
Religion is not responsible for those who misinterpret it.
For example: you keep calling yourself Jewish - yet you're obviously
deranged in your disgusting attempts to paint dirt on Judaism.
TK9
Jan Pompe
I wa being facetious. You should get that straight too.
>
> But when the Christians make reference to such interpretations, the
> followers of Judaism answer, "You lying anti-Semites!!!!
That's right They are lying and so are you (unless you actually believe it)
> Those
> passages and those interpretations do not exist!!!!!"
> Answers which are designed expressly to disappoint Christians.
>
> Wanna try again?
>
> - moshe
IT'S NOT WORTH THE EFFORT you loose either way it is talking of the
character you think it is then he was executed (stoned then hung) by the
bet din for sorcery and enticement, and not by the Romans at the behest
of the Sadducees. This of course creates an unbridgeable credibilty gap
for the NT. On the other hand you could simply be having yourself on
about who it is.
moshe
> Read previous refutations. The only people who
> agree with you are bigots twisting the Talmud and
> other people who, like you, haven't read the original.
*****************
Professors of Semitic Languages were not able to read the original of
Gittin 57a?
The Jewish Encyclopedia attributes that "Balaam" article to the
following people:
-----------------
MORRIS JASTROW, Jr., Ph.D.,
Professor of Semitic Languages and Librarian in the University of
Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pa.; Author of "Religion of the
Babylonians and Assyrians," etc.
IRA MAURICE PRICE, B.D., Ph.D.,
Professor of Semitic Languages and Literatures, University of Chicago,
Ill., Author of "The Monuments and the Old Testament," etc.
MARCUS JASTROW, Ph.D.
(Deceased),
Late Rabbi Emeritus of the Congregation Rodef Shalom, Philadelphia,
Pa.; Author of "Dictionary of the Talmud."
KAUFMANN KOHLER, Ph.D.
(Departments of Theology and Philosophy.)
President of Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati, Ohio; Rabbi Emeritus of
Temple Beth-El, New York.
----------------------------
When that article at shemayisrael.com spoke of "Yeshu HaNotzi" boiling
in excrement, and it said that he was the beginning of "Christianity",
that did not refer to Jesus?
Would you accept the word of the Lubavitch that "Yeshu HaNotzi" =
Jesus?
They say:
---------------begin quote------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
--------------end quote-----------
Would you accept the word of the Orthodox Union Web site that "Yeshu
HaNotzi" = Jesus?
They say:
---------begin quote---------
B - C
------------end quote-----------
------------begin quote-----------
---------end quote----------
- moshe
moshe
> Read previous refutations. The only people who
> agree with you are bigots twisting the Talmud and
> other people who, like you, haven't read the original.
*****************
-----------------
----------------------------
Would you accept the word of the Orthodox Union Web site that "Yeshua
moshe
> [Nancy]
> > > > Jesus in the Talmud
> > > > http:// .com/talmud.htm
>
> [Cindy S]
> > > Another antisemitic website, modeled after Come-and-Hear
> > > and Biblebelievers.
>
> [Morris O]
> > I do not know whether the above sites are anti-Semitic or not.
> >
> > But I do know that you keep claiming that "anti-Judaism" =
> > "anti-Semitism", which is a dishonest comparison.
> >
> > Anti-Judaism says that the Talmud is stupid.
> >
> > Anti-Semitism says that Jews are stupid.
> >
> > Big difference.
>
> [Shmuel] "The Talmud is stupid", but the Jews who wrote,
> preserve, study and learn from the Talmud are not stupid?
> How can that be?
*********
The Jewish people who believe Talmud are a small sub-set of all Jewish
people.
If you were to ask all Jewish people in the world whether it was
possible for Abraham to keep all of Mosaic Law 500 years before Mosaic
Law was even given at Sinai, I'll bet you the majority of Jewish
people in the world would say, "Of course that's not possible".
- moshe
Susan Cohen
> "Patricia Heil" <pjay...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:<40a13653$0$3031$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>
> > But moshe we all know you haven't read it like
> > we have, or you would know there is absolutely
> > no reference to anybody named Yehoshua in the
> > section you're talking about.
>
> ****************
>
> I *have* read the entire passage.
No, you haven't.
You have read taranslationas and - IN YOUR OWN WORDS - SECULAR &
undereducated sources.
>
> I never said that the name of Jesus appears on that Talmud page.
Oh, please!.
>
> I said that the rabbis had *interpreted* the passage to refer to
> Jesus.
But aren't you the one who denounces Talmud as useless opinions (or WTTE)?
It's interesting that Talmud is genuine when YOU want it to be (& even more
interesting that the only things you want to be genuine *aren't*).
> And I *proved* it.
No, you did not.
As particularly pointed out by Jan Pompe.
>
> If you had actually read my post, you would have seen that I said:
>
> "Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one
> of
> the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> *Jesus*."
And when we all read the follow-ups, we can see where these sources are
either undereducated, SECULAR (in YOUR WORDS), or (as pointed out by Jan
Pompe) referring to other things.
>
>
> "That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
> writers of Talmud.
> But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism."
Yes, we would definitely see that you lie about Talmud & Judaism.
>
> ******************
>
> > It doesn't matter what
> > anybody ways, it matters what the Talmud says
> > and the Talmud doesn't say it. Your stupidity
> > trips you up every time.
>
> ***************
>
> The principle that you have just declared would destroy almost every
> interpretation made by every rabbi in history.
No, because Cindy is only referring to lairs like you without the proper
education, coupled with a distinct anti-Jewish agenda.
[snip rest of lies based on the foregoing false premise]
Susan
Susan Cohen
news:<40a21220$0$3034$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>
> > Read previous refutations. The only people who
> > agree with you are bigots twisting the Talmud and
> > other people who, like you, haven't read the original.
>
> *****************
>
> Professors of Semitic Languages were not able to read the original of
> Gittin 57a?
Those are not the people you quoted as agreeing w/you.
>
> The Jewish Encyclopedia attributes that "Balaam" article
But does it attribute the actual mistranslation to them?
to the
> following people:
>
> -----------------
>
> MORRIS JASTROW, Jr., Ph.D.,
> Professor of Semitic Languages and Librarian in the University of
> Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pa.; Author of "Religion of the
> Babylonians and Assyrians," etc.
>
> IRA MAURICE PRICE, B.D., Ph.D.,
> Professor of Semitic Languages and Literatures, University of Chicago,
> Ill., Author of "The Monuments and the Old Testament," etc.
>
> MARCUS JASTROW, Ph.D.
> (Deceased),
> Late Rabbi Emeritus of the Congregation Rodef Shalom, Philadelphia,
> Pa.; Author of "Dictionary of the Talmud."
>
> KAUFMANN KOHLER, Ph.D.
> (Departments of Theology and Philosophy.)
> President of Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati, Ohio; Rabbi Emeritus of
> Temple Beth-El, New York.
>
> ----------------------------
>
> When that article at shemayisrael.com spoke of "Yeshu HaNotzi" boiling
> in excrement, and it said that he was the beginning of "Christianity",
> that did not refer to Jesus?
Nope, as Jan Pompe pointed out.
Susan
Susan Cohen
> Jan Pompe <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:<10a2n72...@news.supernews.com>...
> > moshe wrote:
> > > Here are 6 quotes from *Jewish* Web sites which either quote or refer
> > > that that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
> > >
> > > Quotes #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 below explicitly interpret that one of
> > > the individuals being punished in Gittin 57a is a reference to
> > > *Jesus*.
> > >
> > > In quote #1, the extremely Orthodox and widely respected Jewish Web
> > > site "shemayisrael" gives a lengthy quote from Gittin 57a and then
> > > preaches that the Talmud passage shows the sin of "Yeshu HaNotzri"
> > > (Jesus of Narareth) and "Christianity".
> >
> > He wa a disciple of Yehoshua ben Perachia and was executed for sorcery
> > and enticement to apostacy during the reign of Alewxander Jannaeus some
> > 80 years before your J* is supposed to have been born.
> >
> > Get it straight Morris.
>
> ****************************
>
> I am not the one who interpreted Gittin 57a to be a reference to Jesus
> of Nazareth.
Yes, you are.
>
> The Orthodox rabbis
You lie - Jan Pompe just pointed this out.
and Reform rabbis and the Jewish Encyclopedia
> interpreted Gittin 57a to be a reference to Jesus of Nazareth,
Big deal. You, yourself, ALSO said that the sources were SECULAR.
as I
> proved with quotes and Web links.
>
> Get it straight, Jan.
He has.
Now it's your turn.
Susan
>
> - moshe
Susan Cohen
> "Patricia Heil" <pjay...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:<40a21220$0$3034$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>
> > Read previous refutations. The only people who
> > agree with you are bigots twisting the Talmud and
> > other people who, like you, haven't read the original.
>
> *****************
>
> Professors of Semitic Languages were not able to read the original of
> Gittin 57a?
I already demolished this.
Susan
Susan Cohen
> moshe wrote:
> > "Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<Jghoc.186605$L31.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
> >
> > Nazareth,
I & others.
you neglect to refute the fact that the article says that it
> > is the "Yeshu HaNotzri" who is associated with the beginning of
> > "Christianity".
> >
> >
>
> He is only associated with the beginning of Christianity in so far as he
> was perhaps maybe even probably one opf the people on whom the J myth
> was built but predated the supposed birth by around 100 years.
>
Wjich is why I didn't bother to refute anything like that.
Susan
Susan Cohen
We had forgotten about STUPID people.
>
> I cited 4 rabbinic quotes from Jewish sources which stated that Gittin
> 57a refers to Jesus.
You lie.
Only the SECULAR (in your words) & ONE REFORM source said so.
>
> Which means one of the following:
>
> 1. The rabbis I quoted are lying anti-Semites
See above.
>
> or
>
> 2. The followers of Judaism here sinned by calling those rabbis lying
> anti-Semites
See above.
>
> Which means that either the rabbis are guilty of sin, or the followers
> of Judaism here are guilty of sin.
No, it means you are.
>
> Take your pick.
I always do.
But, unlike you, I only pick between truths.
Susan
moshe
[snip]
******************************
With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
claiming in the first place.
The followers of Judaism here have been busy posting evidence to prove
that the original writers of Talmud could not have been referring to
Jesus in Gittin 57a, that the original writers of Talmud could not
have intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" elsewhere in Talmud to refer to Jesus.
I never claimed that the original writers of the Talmud intended
Gittin 57a to refer to Jesus, that the original writers elsewhere in
Talmud intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" to refer to Jesus.
This is what I said in my original post of proofs:
>> That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
>> writers of Talmud.
>> But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism
*today*.
So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
intended that interpretation.
I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
which claim that interpretation.
And I proved that with abundant quotes from 7 *Jewish* Web sites:
----------------begin quote #1----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
---------------begin quote #2----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
-----------------begin quote #3---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
------------------begin quote #4--------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
- quoted from
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/dimension/archives/vayechi60.htm
-------------------begin quote #5---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
--------------------begin quote #6----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
- quoted from
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=161&letter=B&search=Balaam
--------------------begin quote #7----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is always a *possibility* that the original writers of Talmud *did*
intended Gittin 57a to refer to Jesus, *did* intend for "Yeshu
HaNotzri" elsewhere in Talmud to refer to Jesus.
They knew that they could not put an explicit denunciation of Jesus in
the Talmud, so they might have tried to slip in a sly reference that
could get by Christian censors.
"Why, our denunciation of that sinner Yeshu HaNotzri could not have
referred to Jesus, because this Yeshu HaNotzri obviously lived 100
years before Jesus <snicker, snicker>".
Although that is a possibilty, I know of no evidence that was the
case, so I have no opinion on the matter one way or the other.
Instead, my accusation has always been that it is the *modern* rabbis
who go around making that association.
And I have provided a multitude of quotes to *prove* it.
- moshe
moshe
Ben Mikra
: With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
: busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
: claiming in the first place.
what you are claiming the Talmud is true?
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
moshe
[snip]
******************************
With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
claiming in the first place.
The followers of Judaism here have been busy posting evidence to prove
TonyaK9
> intended that interpretation.
> I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
> which claim that interpretation.
There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
that Jesus is the son of G-d.
There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis"
So - what does any of this has to do with Judaism, "moshe"?
And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism says
that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
What is your answer, "moshe"?
TK9
moshe
[snip]
******************************
With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
claiming in the first place.
The followers of Judaism here have been busy posting evidence to prove
that the original writers of Talmud could not have been referring to
Jesus in Gittin 57a, that the original writers of Talmud could not
have intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" elsewhere in Talmud to refer to Jesus.
I never claimed that the original writers of the Talmud intended
Gittin 57a to refer to Jesus, that the original writers elsewhere in
Talmud intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" to refer to Jesus.
This is what I said in my original post of proofs:
>> That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
>> writers of Talmud.
>> But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism
*today*.
So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
intended that interpretation.
I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
which claim that interpretation.
And I proved that with abundant quotes from 7 *Jewish* Web sites:
moshe
moshe
TonyaK9
news:<Ujaoc.16506$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> [snip]
>
>
> ******************************
>
> With regard to Gittin 57a,
Wow!
Three times in a row you have posted the same previously refuted garbage...
Do you think you've made anyone believe that "it must be right if its been
posted three times" ???
You should have your shrink examine your head, "moshe".
TK9
Nancy
that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
*But what does our Creator say about false
prophets such as Jesus?
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall
neither add to it, nor subtract from it. If there will arise among you a
prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he]
says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us
worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that
dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know
whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with
all your soul. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His
commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. And that
prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he
spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land
of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you
astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so
shall you clear away the evil from your midst. Devarim 13:1-6
Yeshua did not tell the people to follow after 'other God's"
And about adding and taking away?
Read the Tanakh and than your rabbis commenta--one Bible vs a gazillion
commentaries (about what God really said :)
and about all they've taken away from the Holy Bible, including Israel's
Messiah. One day you will see for yourself
"And they will look upon ME, whom they have pierced and MOURN"
Zecheriah 12:10
I wonder why the House of Israel will mourn will happen, instead of
simcha over the arrival of Messiah?
Ben Mikra
Ben Mikra wrote:
that passage in Gittin 57a of Talmud.
*But what does our Creator say about false
prophets such as Jesus?
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall
neither add to it, nor subtract from it. If there will arise among you a
prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he]
says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us
worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that
dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know
whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with
all your soul. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His
commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. And that
prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he
spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land
of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you
astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so
shall you clear away the evil from your midst. Devarim 13:1-6
======================
Yeshua did not tell the people to follow after 'other God's"
*That's debatable! But, he certainly prophesied falsely.
And about adding and taking away?
Read the Tanakh and than your rabbis commenta--one Bible vs a gazillion
commentaries (about what God really said :)
*Wake up and smell the coffee - I don't have any rabbis - I am not a Jew
or a B'nei Noach!
and about all they've taken away from the Holy Bible, including Israel's
Messiah.
*That is their problem - not mine - I go by the Tanach only.
One day you will see for yourself
*I have already seen!
"And they will look upon ME, whom they have pierced and MOURN"
Zecheriah 12:10
I wonder why the House of Israel will mourn will happen, instead of
simcha over the arrival of Messiah?
*I don't know - I'm not part of the House of Israel - I'm a Gentile!
Jan Pompe
It's hardly our fault that Christians, thinking it was a play on netzer
as used in Isaiah appropiated the term "notzrim" for themselves.
moshe
> "moshe" wrote
> : With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
> : busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
> : claiming in the first place.
> *Since you don't believe the Talmud in the first place, why do you think
> what you are claiming the Talmud is true?
*****************
I never said that Gittin 57a is "true".
I complained about what modern rabbis are preaching against Jesus, and
their use of that disgusting passage in Gittin 57a in their preaching
against Jesus.
- moshe
moshe
> > So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
> > intended that interpretation.
> > I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
> > which claim that interpretation.
> There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
> that Jesus is the son of G-d.
> There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis"
> So - what does any of this has to do with Judaism, "moshe"?
> And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism says
> that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
>
> What is your answer, "moshe"?
>
> TK9
***************************
These are the "rabbis" of "Judaism" that I have cited in my proof:
Orthodox Union says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is Jesus.
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
Sichos in English (Chabad) says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is the founder
of Christianity.
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/47.htm
Kosher Torah (anti-missionary) says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is the
founder of Christianity.
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
Shema Yisrael says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is punished in boiling feces
because he was responsible for th birth of Christianity.
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/dimension/archives/vayechi60.htm
Jewish Gates (Reform) says that the founder of Christianity is
punished in boiling feces.
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
Jewish Encyclopedia says that Gittin 57a refers to Jesus.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=161&letter=B&search=Balaam
Beis Moshiach (Chabad) says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" was the leader of
Christianity.
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
Shmuel Playfair
> > [Morris O]
> > > I do not know whether the above sites are anti-Semitic or not.
> > >
> > > But I do know that you keep claiming that "anti-Judaism" =
> > > "anti-Semitism", which is a dishonest comparison.
> > >
> > > Anti-Judaism says that the Talmud is stupid.
> > >
> > > Anti-Semitism says that Jews are stupid.
> > >
> > > Big difference.
> > [Shmuel] "The Talmud is stupid", but the Jews who wrote,
> > preserve, study and learn from the Talmud are not stupid?
> > How can that be?
[Morris O]
> The Jewish people who believe Talmud are a small sub-set
> of all Jewish people.
>
> If you were to ask all Jewish people in the world whether it was
> possible for Abraham to keep all of Mosaic Law 500 years before Mosaic
> Law was even given at Sinai, I'll bet you the majority of Jewish
> people in the world would say, "Of course that's not possible".
[Shmuel] Normally this one expresses his hatred towards all
the "followers of Judaism". Apparently, temporarily he is revising
his expression of hate to include only that "small sub-set of all
Jewish people who believe the Talmud". Not to worry...
soon we will find his ongoing expressions of hate directed
once again towards all the "followers of Judaism".
Patricia Heil
you were wrong. You would have known you were
wrong if, as you claim, you had read the original.
So either stop being stupid or get off the group. Your
stupidity will be exposed every time.
Patricia Heil
with this lie.
cindys
> You provided no proof. In fact, we provided proof
> you were wrong. You would have known you were
> wrong if, as you claim, you had read the original.
--------
He knows he's wrong without having read the original, but to claim that the
talmud says Jesus will boil in excrement serves his agenda, which is to
promote hatred for the talmud (and by extension Judaism). I am not sure
exactly why he does this, but I have my theories:
1. It makes him absolutely furious that he has been unsuccessful in
converting Jews to Christianity, and this is his way of seeking of revenge.
2. He is hoping that by portraying Judaism as being "hateful," he will
convince the unlearned to turn to Christianity which is "loving."
3. He would really like to have a private forum to convince the unlearned
of his *advanced scholarship,* but the Jews have this annoying habit of
pointing out his ignorance.
Take your pick.
Best regards,
--Cindy S.
cindys
> This is the fourth time you've spammed this group
> with this lie.
>
And it won't be the last. He's a slightly more sophisticated version of Alex
Seredin.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
moshe
*******************
According to the following quotes, the Orthodox Union and Chabad and
other Jewish groups did the "approprating" for us:
----------------begin quote #1----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
[ Orthodox Union ]
---------------begin quote #2----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
[ Chabad]
-----------------begin quote #3---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
[ anti-missionary site ]
------------------begin quote #4--------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
[ Orthodox ]
-------------------begin quote #5---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
[ Reform ]
--------------------begin quote #6----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
--------------------begin quote #7----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
[ Chabad ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TonyaK9
news:<lcyoc.18047$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> > > So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
> > > intended that interpretation.
> > > I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
> > > which claim that interpretation.
>
>
> > There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
> > that Jesus is the son of G-d.
> > There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis"
> > So - what does any of this has to do with Judaism, "moshe"?
> > And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism
says
> > that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
> >
> > What is your answer, "moshe"?
> >
> > TK9
>
> ***************************
>
> These are the "rabbis" of "Judaism" that I have cited in my proof:
>
You seem to have reading comprehension problem, "moshe."
Let me try it one more time, and we'll see if you're capable at all to
understand my simple argument:
1. There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
that Jesus is the son of G-d.
This example clearly shows that Judaism, which is not a centralized
religion, like, say, Catholicism, cannot be held responsible for whatever
anyone called "rabbi" says or does. Do you understand this, "moshe"?
2. There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis", some of
them even have a small gang of followers, for example like those J4J and
"messianic Jews", but that has no bearing on Judaism. So, tell us, "moshe" -
what makes you believe that any of the stuff you're including in your
"lists" has any more to do with Judaism than the J4J heresies?
3. And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism
says that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
What are your answers, "moshe"?
And, by the way - we've seen already your "lists", so pleeeeeaaaase, spare
the bandwidth and just answer my simple questions, or we'll have no other
way but to conclude that you are a troll to ignore!
TK9
Susan Cohen
news:<Ujaoc.16506$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> [snip]
>
>
> ******************************
>
> With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
> busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
> claiming in the first place.
Having no one to talk to, Oesterly has begun repeating himself,
mindlessly....
Susan
Susan Cohen
news:<Ujaoc.16506$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> [snip]
>
>
> ******************************
>
> With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
> busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
> claiming in the first place.
[snip rest of repitition]
Susan Cohen
news:<Ujaoc.16506$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> [snip]
>
>
> ******************************
>
> With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
> busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
> claiming in the first place.
[snip rest of repitition]
Susan Cohen
news:<10a6hsh...@news.supernews.com>...
> > Susan Cohen wrote:
> > > "Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
> > > news:10a4hre...@news.supernews.com...
> > >
> > >>moshe wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>"Susan Cohen" <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > news:<Jghoc.186605$L31.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
> > >
> > >>>You see, Susan, when you claim that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is not Jesus of
> > >>>Nazareth,
> > >
> > >
> > > I & others.
> > >
> > > you neglect to refute the fact that the article says that it
> > >
> > >>>is the "Yeshu HaNotzri" who is associated with the beginning of
> > >>>"Christianity".
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>He is only associated with the beginning of Christianity in so far as
he
> > >>was perhaps maybe even probably one opf the people on whom the J myth
> > >>was built but predated the supposed birth by around 100 years.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Susan
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It's hardly our fault that Christians, thinking it was a play on netzer
> > as used in Isaiah appropiated the term "notzrim" for themselves.
>
> *******************
>
> According to the following quotes, the Orthodox Union and Chabad and
> other Jewish groups did the "approprating" for us:
How many times are you going to repost stuff that's already been refuted?
Susan
Susan Cohen
news:<lcyoc.18047$Hs1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> > > So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
> > > intended that interpretation.
> > > I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
> > > which claim that interpretation.
>
>
> > There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
> > that Jesus is the son of G-d.
> > There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis"
> > So - what does any of this has to do with Judaism, "moshe"?
> > And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism
says
> > that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
> >
> > What is your answer, "moshe"?
> >
> > TK9
>
> ***************************
>
> These are the "rabbis" of "Judaism" that I have cited in my proof:
>
> Orthodox Union says that "Yeshu HaNotzri" is Jesus.
But not the one in the quote you provided, as Jan Pompe pointed out.
[same for the rest of the references.]
Susan
cindys
So what else is new? He has been posting about Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a at
least once a week since 1999.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
cindys
Indefinitely. His false claims about Rosh Hashanah 16b-17a have been refuted
since 1999 yet he continues to post them weekly.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
moshe
> This is the fourth time you've spammed this group
> with this lie.
********************
Which of the 7 quotes from Jewish Web sites are lies?
- moshe
moshe
******************
You have proved nothing.
In fact, I doubt that you have even looked at this list, since it
contains 3 quotes that were not even in the original post of mine.
Quotes from Chabad and Orthodox Union stating that they considered
Yeshu HaNotzri to be Jesus.
----------------begin quote #1----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
---------------begin quote #2----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
-----------------begin quote #3---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
------------------begin quote #4--------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
-------------------begin quote #5---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
--------------------begin quote #6----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
--------------------begin quote #7----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
moshe
***************
If saying that Talmud is "stupid" and that anyone who believes in it
is being "stupid" constitutes "hate",
then what do you think about those who claim that I am a "lying
forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag"?
Would that come just a little bit close to constituting "hate"?
- moshe
Emma
>
>***************
>
>If saying that Talmud is "stupid" and that anyone who believes in it
>is being "stupid" constitutes "hate",
>
>then what do you think about those who claim that I am a "lying
>forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag"?
>
>Would that come just a little bit close to constituting "hate"?
>
Oh for goodness sake, moshe, why
does it always come down to *you*
and how your feelings are being hurt?
You really are being the most
incredible wuss!
(.. and I hope
that means the same thing in the
US as it does here.... "Sissy".
For some reason though,
it's far more satisfying to say
"Wuss!" :-)
-----
Emma
-----
moshe
*******************
I understand that I gave quotes from rabbis at the Orthodox Union and
Chabad and ShemaYisrael.
If they aren't rabbis, then nobody is.
******************
>
> 2. There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis", some of
> them even have a small gang of followers, for example like those J4J and
> "messianic Jews", but that has no bearing on Judaism. So, tell us, "moshe" -
> what makes you believe that any of the stuff you're including in your
> "lists" has any more to do with Judaism than the J4J heresies?
*****************
Because my quotes came from Orthodox Union and Chabad and
ShemaYisrael.
*****************
> 3. And if it does not, then why did YOU name your original post "Judaism
> says that Jesus boils [blah-blah-blah]"???
****************
Because followers of Judaism in this newsgroup have long declared that
Orthodox Union and Chabad and ShemaYisrael are reputable
representatives of Judaism.
**************
> What are your answers, "moshe"?
> And, by the way - we've seen already your "lists"
**************
----------------Orthodox Union says: ----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
---------------Chabad says: ----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
[ Chabad]
-----------------anti-missionary site says: ---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
[ anti-missionary site ]
------------------Orthodox says: --------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
[ Orthodox ]
-------------------Reform says: ---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
[ Reform ]
--------------------Jewish Encyclopedia says: ----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
--------------------Chabad says: ----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
[ Chabad ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
moshe
> "Patricia Heil" <pjay...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:40a36a63$0$2999$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> > You provided no proof. In fact, we provided proof
> > you were wrong. You would have known you were
> > wrong if, as you claim, you had read the original.
>
> --------
> He knows he's wrong without having read the original, but to claim that the
> talmud says Jesus will boil in excrement
*************
I never said any such thing, liar.
I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
Ben Mikra
> I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
> Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
and effort to studying the Tanach.
moshe
> In article <40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>, moshe says...
> >
> >***************
> >
> >If saying that Talmud is "stupid" and that anyone who believes in it
> >is being "stupid" constitutes "hate",
> >
> >then what do you think about those who claim that I am a "lying
> >forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag"?
> >
> >Would that come just a little bit close to constituting "hate"?
> >
>
> Oh for goodness sake, moshe, why
> does it always come down to *you*
> and how your feelings are being hurt?
******************
My feelings are not "hurt".
I am pointing out Playfair's double-standard hypocrisy.
He thinks it is "hate" to say that a *book* is "stupid".
But he *doesn't* think that it is "hate" to call a *person* a
"lying forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag".
******************
>
> You really are being the most
> incredible wuss!
> (.. and I hope
> that means the same thing in the
> US as it does here.... "Sissy".
> For some reason though,
> it's far more satisfying to say
> "Wuss!" :-)
>
> -----
> Emma
******************
Then why were *you* such a "wuss" about my citing Matthew 7:6 which
describes some people as spiritual swine and dogs?
You have dragged out the subject of my language towards others into a
complaint that you have posted constantly for *months*.
Because you and your friends had your feelings hurt.
Which makes you the "Queen of Wuss".
[ In case you missed the obvious, I am also pointing out *your*
hypcrisy ]
- moshe
Karen
>Emma <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<c80ls...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>> In article <40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>, moshe says...
>> >
>> >***************
>> >
>> >If saying that Talmud is "stupid" and that anyone who believes in it
>> >is being "stupid" constitutes "hate",
>> >
>> >then what do you think about those who claim that I am a "lying
>> >forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag"?
>> >
>> >Would that come just a little bit close to constituting "hate"?
>> >
>>
>> Oh for goodness sake, moshe, why
>> does it always come down to *you*
>> and how your feelings are being hurt?
>
>******************
>
>My feelings are not "hurt".
>
>I am pointing out Playfair's double-standard hypocrisy.
>
>He thinks it is "hate" to say that a *book* is "stupid".
>
>But he *doesn't* think that it is "hate" to call a *person* a
>"lying forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag".
Ok, I've had enough. Please provide the quote of the person who
called you "lying forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag".
You keep putting it as a quote that some one or several have said.
You have been accused of lying.
A group of your "enemies" wanted proof and even said they didn't
think you would commit forgery. The one who had thought another
poster she trusted made the accusation (when she didn't) has sinced
apologized to you. (I know; you have a problem seeing apologies.)
You have been called moron and an idiot.
You have been accused of putting forth anti-Semitic materials. Some
probably have accused you of being anti-Semitic in the past.
I don't know about ignoramus and scumbag.
But WHERE has ANYONE called you "lying forging moron idiot ignoramus
anti-Semitic scumbag" in just those words just like that that you keep
spewing forth AS A QUOTE?
Patrick
> moshe wrote:
> > I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
> > Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
> *Just think how wise you would be if you would devote that much time
> and effort to studying the Tanach.
Be reasonable, according to your belief, and say he needs to study the
sage's interpretation of the Tanach.
Have a nice day,
Patrick
Patrick
> "moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com...
> news:<40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
> > intended that interpretation.
> > I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
> > which claim that interpretation.
>
> There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who believe
> that Jesus is the son of G-d.
> There are all kinds of crazy people who call themselves "rabbis"
I looked at the sources he gave and I couldn't find one that believe
Jesus is the son of G-d. And I was being intellectually honest.
Susan Cohen
The ones we already covered.
Susan
Susan Cohen
news:<40a36a63$0$2999$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>
> > You provided no proof. In fact, we provided proof
> > you were wrong. You would have known you were
> > wrong if, as you claim, you had read the original.
> > So either stop being stupid or get off the group. Your
> > stupidity will be exposed every time.
>
> ******************
>
>
> You have proved nothing.
Of course we did.
You can say what you like, but between us (Cindy, Patricia, Jan & me) we've
shown that you are nothing but a sick little liar who lives for nothing but
t slander Judaism.
[snip already refuted crap]
Susan
Susan Cohen
> > 1. There are some *modern* folks who call themselves rabbis yet who
believe
> > that Jesus is the son of G-d.
> > This example clearly shows that Judaism, which is not a centralized
> > religion, like, say, Catholicism, cannot be held responsible for
whatever
> > anyone called "rabbi" says or does. Do you understand this, "moshe"?
>
> *******************
>
> I understand that I gave quotes from rabbis at the Orthodox Union and
> Chabad and ShemaYisrael.
And none of them said what you said they did - as Jan Pompe specifially
pointed out
[snip rest of already refuted crap]
Susan
Susan Cohen
news:<LiMoc.184327$M3.8...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> > "Patricia Heil" <pjay...@erols.com> wrote in message
> > news:40a36a63$0$2999$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> > > You provided no proof. In fact, we provided proof
> > > you were wrong. You would have known you were
> > > wrong if, as you claim, you had read the original.
> >
> > --------
> > He knows he's wrong without having read the original, but to claim that
the
> > talmud says Jesus will boil in excrement
>
> *************
>
> I never said any such thing, liar.
You spend your days trying to slander Judaism and in specific the Talmud.
It was absolutely the intent of your postings, even if you didn;t use the
exact words.
There isn't one person around who is going to say otherwise, and you know
it.
> I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
> Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
You did nothing of the kind
Susan Cohen
> > I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
> > Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
> *Just think how wise you would be if you would devote that much time
> and effort to studying the Tanach.
He's not Jewish.
Susan
Susan Cohen
"Patrick" <PV...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:97685590.0405...@posting.google.com...
Huh?
What makes you think this?
Susan
Susan Cohen
>
> I looked at the sources he gave and I couldn't find one that believe
> Jesus is the son of G-d. And I was being intellectually honest.
Funny, I've found at least one idiot who calls himself a rabbi who believes
in Jesus.
Of course he calls himself all sorts of other things, and says he believes
all sorts of other things as well...
But of the sources he gave, only two said anything like what he said they
did, and one was Reform and the other was, in his own words, secular.
Susan
Ben Mikra
> Ben Mikra wrote
>>moshe wrote:
>>
>>>I said that *modern rabbis* were preaching that *interpretation* of
>>>Gittin 57a and other Talmud passages, and I proved it:
>>
>> *Just think how wise you would be if you would devote that much time
>>and effort to studying the Tanach.
>
> Be reasonable, according to your belief, and say he needs to study the
> sage's interpretation of the Tanach.
> Have a nice day,
*It will be nicer if you don't lie about me.
Emma
>
>Emma <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<c80ls...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>> In article <40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>, moshe says...
>> >
>> >***************
>> >
>> >If saying that Talmud is "stupid" and that anyone who believes in it
>> >is being "stupid" constitutes "hate",
>> >
>> >then what do you think about those who claim that I am a "lying
>> >forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag"?
>> >
>> >Would that come just a little bit close to constituting "hate"?
>> >
>>
>> Oh for goodness sake, moshe, why
>> does it always come down to *you*
>> and how your feelings are being hurt?
>
>******************
>
>My feelings are not "hurt".
>
>I am pointing out Playfair's double-standard hypocrisy.
>
>He thinks it is "hate" to say that a *book* is "stupid".
>
>But he *doesn't* think that it is "hate" to call a *person* a
>"lying forging moron idiot ignoramus anti-Semitic scumbag".
>
Nobody has said that to you.
You love to exaggerate.
>>
>> You really are being the most
>> incredible wuss!
>> (.. and I hope
>> that means the same thing in the
>> US as it does here.... "Sissy".
>> For some reason though,
>> it's far more satisfying to say
>> "Wuss!" :-)
>>
>> -----
>> Emma
>
>******************
>
>Then why were *you* such a "wuss" about my citing Matthew 7:6 which
>describes some people as spiritual swine and dogs?
I've said that you are being
obnoxious and insulting when
you post that type of thing
to non-Christians.
I don't actually think you've
said that to me though.
I usually get "jerk!" or
"stinking hypocrite" and the
latest one... "slandering little
piece of snot!" (how charming! :-)
I don't feel wounded by it all
though.
But you seem to. You don't
object when one or two others
have comforted you in your
"sufferings". Neither do you
object when they refer to
it as "persecution".
If you aren't a wuss, then
I think you should tell them
to stop being so ridiculous!
-----
Emma
-----
the cockroach
news:t4h8a0hacu137v0ls...@4ax.com:
> On 13 May 2004 21:00:31 -0700, joes...@hotmail.com (moshe) wrote:
>
>>Emma <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>news:<c80ls...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>>> In article <40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>, moshe
>>> says...
[snip]
>
> But WHERE has ANYONE called you "lying forging moron idiot ignoramus
> anti-Semitic scumbag" in just those words just like that that you keep
> spewing forth AS A QUOTE?
>
it is in the book he has from by the orthodox rabbi this book is published
by the feldman press and is endorsed by 8 other ultra orthodox rabbis
it can also be found in the talmud. he copied that page from the talmud in
his jewish community center and has the copy at home but cant find it at
the moment.
--
____________________________
"I am a Republican!" Lynn informed him.
"A poor Republican. It's unnatural,
Like a vegetarian vampire."
Fugitive Nights
Joesph Wambaugh
____________________________
Karen
>Karen <karendw7@don't-like-green-eggs-and-spam.yahoo.ns.com> wrote in
>news:t4h8a0hacu137v0ls...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 13 May 2004 21:00:31 -0700, joes...@hotmail.com (moshe) wrote:
>>
>>>Emma <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>news:<c80ls...@drn.newsguy.com>...
>>>> In article <40f21e75.04051...@posting.google.com>, moshe
>>>> says...
>
>[snip]
>>
>> But WHERE has ANYONE called you "lying forging moron idiot ignoramus
>> anti-Semitic scumbag" in just those words just like that that you keep
>> spewing forth AS A QUOTE?
>>
>
>it is in the book he has from by the orthodox rabbi this book is published
>by the feldman press and is endorsed by 8 other ultra orthodox rabbis
>
>it can also be found in the talmud. he copied that page from the talmud in
>his jewish community center and has the copy at home but cant find it at
>the moment.
Oh, I see. Should I expect quotes from anti-Semitic websites that he
will claim he had no idea were from anti-Semitic websites next?
moshe
***************
The quotes from Orthodox Union and Chabad were added *after* Jan's
post, so Jan did *not* prove them wrong.
In fact, I *added* the quotes from Orthodox Union and Chabad to prove
Jan wrong.
He said that Jesus could not have been Yeshua HaNotrzi.
I quoted Orthodox Union and Chabad as explicitly stating that Jesus
was Yeshu HaNOtzri:
moshe
*****************
Orthodox Union and Chabad and an Orthodox anti-missionary Web site all
claim that "Yehu HaNotzri" refers to Jesus, as proven below.
And, by the way, point out which of the following believes in Jesus as
you claimed.
moshe
*********
Restore that which has never been refuted:
----------------Orthodox Union says: ----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
---------------Chabad says: ----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
[ Chabad]
-----------------anti-missionary site says: ---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
[ anti-missionary site ]
------------------Orthodox says: --------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
[ Orthodox ]
-------------------Reform says: ---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
[ Reform ]
--------------------Jewish Encyclopedia says: ----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
--------------------Chabad says: ----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
[ Chabad ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
moshe
***************
Point out specifically which of the following are "lies" :
TonyaK9
The day is nice, sunny and happy, Patrick, and I hope you have the same, in
spite of your obvious inability to have read my post for what it said...
Let's see what I said:
Are you disputing that there are folks who call themselves rabbis yet who
believe in such nonsense that JC was a son of G-d? If you're disputing it,
go take a look at the Jews for Jesus web sites.
Now, if that's true, then you must agree that there are ALL kinds of crazy
people who call themselves rabbis.
Given these two arguments, you must logically follow my point: not everybody
who claims to be a rabbi speaks for Judaism.
Now, wasn't that easy?
If you still choose to believe that JC is "boiling in excrement", let me
assure you that all kinds of statements like this are pure unadulterated
superstition: JC has been dead for over two millenia now, and there's hardly
anything left for anyone to boil in anything...
TK9