sacrifices, etc.
randy
sacrifices have not been in effect for 2000 years, some tell
me to deemphasize the sacrifices, and focus on the things
that we can do under the Law. But consider how big a role
offering sacrifices played in the worship of Israel!
Consider the fact that sacrifices had to be made at least
twice a day! They had to be made on Sabbaths double. They
had to be made on the first day of the month. They had to be
offered extra on holidays. In all of this worship the
Sabbaths played an important role as well, but they were
tied to the sacrifices. And without sacrifices the Law
really wasn't playing out as it was originally meant to be
played out.
Numbers 28:1 ś The LORD said to Moses,
2 "Command the people of Israel, and say to them, 'My
offering, my food for my offerings by fire, my pleasing
odor, you shall take heed to offer to me in its due season.'
3 And you shall say to them, This is the offering by fire
which you shall offer to the LORD: two male lambs a year old
without blemish, day by day, as a continual offering.
4 The one lamb you shall offer in the morning, and the
other lamb you shall offer in the evening;
5 also a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a cereal
offering, mixed with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil.
So what was the purpose of the sacrifices? Surely the
sacrifices have had to be given up at times in the history
of Israel, such as during captivities. But what eternal
principle was God trying to convey to His people while they
lived securely in their land? His purpose was to emphasize
that every thing Israel accomplished, every goal pursued,
had to take place through the mercy and help of God. Israel
was always guilty of sin in some measure, and they were to
look to God for cleansing, so that they could rely on God's
favor. Every week they were to pursue God's help so that
their work would result in success, or rest. Every planted
harvest was to be done with complete dependence on God so
that their harvests would be full and successful, so that
they would attain to rest.
Rest itself was an indication that success had been
accomplished in every endeavor, just as God achieved rest
following His works of creation. Rest is the seal of
accomplishment, a token to the fact we have successfully
done for God and for ourselves what needs to be done. So the
Sabbaths were important to convey, symbolically, this
continual sense of achievement, with the help of God. And
the sacrifices were to demonstrate that we are pleasing God,
by showing our complete dependance on Him, and our desire to
clean up our act so that what we do does proper honor to His
holiness.
Beyond this, the smell of burning meat is a wonderful
fragrance, showing God's provision to us of food. When
Israel came near the temple of God they could always smell
the fragrance of God's provision. When we humble ourselves
before God, and ask Him for help, being willing to live in
complete holiness, we can expect that God will provide for
our needs. We can be sure He loves us and is pleased with
us. I don't believe we are under the Law anymore. But I
believe its symbolic principles remain true forever.
randy
fact-c...@hotmail.com
> When I emphasize that the Law has been annuled..."
==========
Randy, I am oh so very angry with you.
In fact, even though there is no such place as Hell, I want you to go
there as quickly as possible.
Because only a bigot like you would bad-mouth another person's
religion.
And BTW your xianity is pure idolatrous puppy pooh-pooh.
And I say that only because I am protecting the sanctity of holy
Judaism which is run by know-nothing dime-a-dozen Orthodox rabbis for
whom I have absolutely no respect but hey it's my religion and if I
don't defend it who will.
signed,
Sin-dee
P.M.S. - and that goes for your friend moshe, too
randy
<fact-c...@hotmail.com>
> randy
>> When I emphasize that the Law has been annuled..."
> Randy, I am oh so very angry with you.
But I just feel so-o-o-o-o good--I must be doing something
right. Besides, I got some of this stuff from moshe, and he
sometimes speaks directly for God.
Thanks brother!
randy
fact-c...@hotmail.com
========
Oh, I am oh so very angry at moshe.
He quotes Orthodox rabbis from Orthodox Web sites, which is the most
anti-Semitic thing that anyone can ever do.
I hope that moshe goes to Hell, too, even though there is no such place
as Hell, because if there were such a place then moshe deserves to go
there more than anyone else.
And I hope that his private parts get caught in a barbed wire fence,
too.
**** moshe and the Toyota he rode in on.
sincerely yours,
Sin-dee
Terry Cross
Moshe? You mean the neo-AshkeNazi?
Why don't you leave the poor fellow alone? He has enough trouble
trying to reconcile the faith of his fathers with the faith of his
Father-in-law.
TCross
fact-c...@hotmail.com
==========
And I am OOOOH SOOOOO very angry at that Christian missionary Terry who
believes so much in the obvious cannibalism of the Communion that she
encourages Christians to capture and kill Jews and then use the Jewish
blood in making Communion wafers...
yours most sincerely and have a nice day,
Sin-dee
Terry Cross
Randy can take his X-inanity and shove it up his sunless interior.
Kind regards and very truly your most humble servant and incurable
sycophant,
Shu-san Ko-han
fact-c...@hotmail.com
===========
Oh, Shu-san, you always say such clever and precious things.
I am so glad you converted to Judaism and left those pagan white trash
Catholic goyim relatives of yours behind to join us instead.
your rabbinic comrade in arms,
Sin-dee
cindys
<fact-c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149479484.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Terry Cross wrote:
snip
> > Randy can take his X-inanity and shove it up his sunless interior.
> >
> > Kind regards and very truly your most humble servant and incurable
> > sycophant,
> >
> > Shu-san Ko-han
>
> ===========
>
> Oh, Shu-san, you always say such clever and precious things.
> I am so glad you converted to Judaism and left those pagan white trash
> Catholic goyim relatives of yours behind to join us instead.
>
> your rabbinic comrade in arms,
> Sin-dee
--------
Well, the way I figure it, Morris is about 50 years old going on 5, and
Carol is about 70 years old going on 7. I hope they had fun at the
playground, but now they need to grow up and stop making fools of
themselves.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fact-c...@hotmail.com
===========
So far Cindy has made the following false claims about Orthodox Judaism
even though she has claimed that she attends an Orthodox synagogue:
1. Cindy falsely claimed that in Judaism it is not really important who
the Messiah is.
2. Cindy falsely claimed that Judaism does not emphasize salvation.
3. Cindy falsley cclaimed that Judaism does not believe in eternal Hell
for some sinners.
4. Cindy falsely claimed that in Judaism Adam was not created immortal.
5. Cindy falsely claimed that in Judaism there is no Talmudic tractate
Kallah.
6. Cindy falsely claimed that Orthodox rabbis are "a dime a dozen".
7. Cindy falsely claimed that in Judaism there is no resurrection prior
to the general resurrection.
8. Cindy falsely claimed that only ignorami and anti-Semites use the
term "ultra-Orthodox" even though Orthodox rabbis and Cindy herself
have used that word in their writings.
When Cindy claims to be Orthodox yet she repeatedly contradicts
Orthodox Judaism like that, it is Cindy who is making a fool of
herself.
- moshe
cindys
<fact-c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149528670....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> cindys wrote:
> > <fact-c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1149479484.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > Terry Cross wrote:
> >
> > snip
> > > > Randy can take his X-inanity and shove it up his sunless interior.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards and very truly your most humble servant and incurable
> > > > sycophant,
> > > >
> > > > Shu-san Ko-han
> > >
> > > ===========
> > >
> > > Oh, Shu-san, you always say such clever and precious things.
> > > I am so glad you converted to Judaism and left those pagan white trash
> > > Catholic goyim relatives of yours behind to join us instead.
> > >
> > > your rabbinic comrade in arms,
> > > Sin-dee
> > --------
> > Well, the way I figure it, Morris is about 50 years old going on 5, and
> > Carol is about 70 years old going on 7. I hope they had fun at the
> > playground, but now they need to grow up and stop making fools of
> > themselves.
>
> ===========
>
> So far Cindy has made the following false claims about Orthodox Judaism
> even though she has claimed that she attends an Orthodox synagogue:
more blah blah blah.
----------
You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else left the
playground a long time ago. Grow up.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
fla...@verizon.net
The way *I* see it, these sad little liars are only showing how afraid
they are of both of us, as well as exposing themselves as true gutter
trash bigots. The filth & bigotry in that post came from *them*, and
never anything either of us has said.
For people who are whining that we are insulting them, they sure
manage to insult & expose themselves far more than we ever could.
Susan
dsha...@hotmail.com
> > > Kind regards and very truly your most humble servant and incurable
> > > sycophant,
> > > Shu-san Ko-han
> <fart-c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1149479484.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Oh, Shu-san, you always say such clever and precious things.
> > I am so glad you converted to Judaism and left those pagan white trash
> > Catholic goyim relatives of yours behind to join us instead.
> > your rabbinic comrade in arms,
> > Sin-dee
cindys wrote:
> Well, the way I figure it, Morris is about 50 years old going on 5, and
> Carol is about 70 years old going on 7. I hope they had fun at the
> playground, but now they need to grow up and stop making fools of
> themselves.
Fat chance.
Deborah
Mi mishegoss a'd meshugas lo kamke Morris
> Best regards,
> ---Cindy S.
randy
"cindys"
> You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
> left the
> playground a long time ago. Grow up.
Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
randy
fact-c...@hotmail.com
=========
Of course I feel no need to give an intelligent response when all that
idiot moshe ever does is quote a bunch of no-nothing dime-a-dozen
Orthodox rabbis who misrepresent what true Judaism is.
And I know that those Orthodox rabbis are misrepresenting Judaism
because I myself attend an Orthodox shul.
Quoting a bunch of Orhodox rabbis is *not* a legitimate part of true
debate in this Judaism-versus-Christianity forum.
Only "scholars" like layperson Hillel Markowitz should be quoted as
authorities on Judaism, because Markowitz knows far more than any
Orthodox rabbi will ever know, because Markowitz owns the secret
Kaballah code book which has been kept hidden in a mayonnaise jar under
Funk and Wagnall's porch...
yours in a most inappropriately affectionate way,
Shin-dee
randy
<fact-c...@hotmail.com>
> randy
> ...Only "scholars" like layperson Hillel Markowitz should
> be quoted as
> authorities on Judaism, because Markowitz knows far more
> than any
> Orthodox rabbi will ever know, because Markowitz owns the
> secret
> Kaballah code book which has been kept hidden in a
> mayonnaise jar under
> Funk and Wagnall's porch...
> yours in a most inappropriately affectionate way,
> Shin-dee
Shin-dee, before you debate with a manual in hand to help
you protect Judaism, you need to arm yourself with
personality and honesty. Shin-dee, if you can't define who
you are morally, how can you ever hope to appoint yourself
as a defender of Judaism? ;)
randy
>
fact-c...@hotmail.com
========
Ooooooh, Randy, you make me so mad.....
I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
Judaism.
I am a follower of Orthodox Judaism who says that making claims without
offering supporting evidence is superior to making claims with
supporting evidence.
I am an Orthodox who says that Soncino Edition Talmud is anti-Semitic
material and who says that Israeli utra-Orthodox Rabbi David Bar Chayim
is a neo-Nazi anti-Semite.
Why can't you get those simple facts through your pagan skull?
with the utmost in insincere wishes for a long and prosperous life,
Shin-dee
Terry Cross
You got that right, Shin-Dee. Praise the Ten Sepherot-godhead that you
know these polytheists inside and out, and understand their blasphemy
against the One True God with Ten Heads.
Randy is just a low-life philosemite like Hitler and Israel Shahak.
De-Boring
Ephraim
fact-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> Judaism.
Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
Bailey?
>
> I am a follower of Orthodox Judaism who says that making claims without
> offering supporting evidence is superior to making claims with
> supporting evidence.
>
Follower maybe, but not a Jew.
> I am an Orthodox who says that Soncino Edition Talmud is anti-Semitic
> material and who says that Israeli utra-Orthodox Rabbi David Bar Chayim
> is a neo-Nazi anti-Semite.
An Orthodox what? Do they have Orthodox liars in the Xian world?
>
> Why can't you get those simple facts through your pagan skull?
Yes, why can't you?
>
> with the utmost in insincere wishes for a long and prosperous life,
Bakacha,
Ephraim
fla...@verizon.net
On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> fact-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> > Judaism.
>
>
> Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> Bailey?
>
B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
>
> >
> > I am a follower of Orthodox Judaism who says that making claims without
> > offering supporting evidence is superior to making claims with
> > supporting evidence.
> >
>
>
> Follower maybe, but not a Jew.
Absolutely NEITHER.
He's lying again.
>
>
> > I am an Orthodox who says that Soncino Edition Talmud is anti-Semitic
> > material and who says that Israeli utra-Orthodox Rabbi David Bar Chayim
> > is a neo-Nazi anti-Semite.
>
>
>
> An Orthodox what? Do they have Orthodox liars in the Xian world?
That's the only type of Orthodox he could be!!
>
>
> >
> > Why can't you get those simple facts through your pagan skull?
>
>
>
> Yes, why can't you?
>
>
> >
> > with the utmost in insincere wishes for a long and prosperous life,
>
>
> Bakacha,
>
A least he was honest *there*.
Susan
dsha...@gmail.com
> > > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> > > Judaism.
> On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> > Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> > Bailey?
fla...@verizon.net wrote:
> B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
> > > I am a follower of Orthodox Judaism who says that making claims without
> > > offering supporting evidence is superior to making claims with
> > > supporting evidence.
> > Follower maybe, but not a Jew.
> Absolutely NEITHER.
> He's lying again.
> > > I am an Orthodox who says that Soncino Edition Talmud is anti-Semitic
> > > material and who says that Israeli utra-Orthodox Rabbi David Bar Chayim
> > > is a neo-Nazi anti-Semite.
> > An Orthodox what? Do they have Orthodox liars in the Xian world?
> That's the only type of Orthodox he could be!!
Morris is an Orthodox poodle, always yapping and puddling in the best
poodle tradition.
Deborah
joes...@hotmail.com
==========
The thought of it makes me so MAD!!!!
You want proof of how EVIL moshe and Randy are?
They chopped off 7 of God's heads!!!!
It makes me so MAD I could spit shrapnel....
yours in a non-Lesbian way,
Shin-dee
Mordecai!
randy wrote:
For some strange reason - I do not trust Morris and I doubt he has
"serious questions."
Which serious question do you like?
As you have identified the problem is that Morris "uses levity" which
obviously seems to be "the problem" - perhaps you might care to present the
"serious question" - without levity ... for us to examine?
If you like, I am sure Rob will talk to you and examine the issues with
you, as you perceive him as one whom you are happy to talk to.
Thanks.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
joes...@hotmail.com
> randy wrote:
>
> > "cindys"
> > > You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
> > > left the
> > > playground a long time ago. Grow up.
> >
> > Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
> > As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
> > honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
> > might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
> > personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
> > that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
> > randy
>
> For some strange reason - I do not trust Morris and I doubt he has
> "serious questions."
> Which serious question do you like?
=======
Example:
Neither Cindy nor any other follower of Judaism has ever responded when
I have posted the following facts about the belief in vicarious
atonement in Judaism:
-------------begin quote---------
SHOAH
From: cindys - view profile
Date: Thurs, Mar 9 2006 11:47 am
Email: "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com>
Groups: soc.culture.jewish.moderated
...
Also, there is a concept in
Judaism that the tzaddikim (righteous) of a generation can accept the
punishment for the sins of others. This would occur in a situation
where the
sinful individuals deserve such a horrific punishment that they would
not be
able to handle it. Therefore, the righteous of the generation suffer in
their stead (on earth). In heaven, the reward of the righteous is
increased
because they endured the earthly suffering for others. I have come
across
this idea twice in the course of gemara study (once in Berachos and
once in
Makkos) and believe it is the opinion of the Maharal. I also inquired
about
this concept on a frum e-mail list and one of the other participants
provided a detailed response (which I have unfortunately now misplaced,
but
I am hoping I saved somewhere), complete with classical sources which
support this concept.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
-------------begin quote-----------
Hamaayan / The Torah Spring
Edited by Shlomo Katz
Tetzaveh
Volume XVI, No. 20
11 Adar 5762
February 23, 2002
...
Our Sages state that the death of a tzaddik atones for the Jewish
people just as a sacrifice does.
...
- quoted from Torah.org
http://www.torah.org/learning/hamaayan/5762/tetzaveh.html
------------begin quote-----------
Weekly Daf
by Rabbi Mendel Weinbach
Mo'Moed Katan 25 - Chagiga 3 Issue #299
22 - 28 Cheshvan 5760 / 1 - 7 November 1999
...
The laws of the red heifer (Bamidbar 19) are followed by an account of
the passing of Miriam (Bamidbar 20:1) to teach us that just as the red
heifer serves as an atonement (it is referred to in Bamidbar 20:9 as a
"sin offering" - Maharsha) so does the death of a tzaddik act as an
atonement.
...
- quoted from
http://www.ohr.org.il/yomi/yomi299.htm
------------begin quote-----------
Torah Insights for Shabbat Acharei Mot
May 3, 1997
...
not only does the Yom Kippur service bring atonement to the people, the
death of tzaddikim brings atonement as well.
...
Rabbi Moshe Morduchowitz
Rabbi Morduchowitz is the Rabbi of the West Side Institutional
Synagogue, Manhattan, New York
- quoted from Orthodox Union at
http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5757/achreimot57.html
------------begin quote-----------
Universal Torah
Lessons for Humanity
from the Weekly Parshah
by Rabbi Avraham Greenbaum
...
("The death of Tzaddikim atones like the sacrifices" -- Rashi on
Numbers 20:1)
...
- quoted from
http://www.azamra.org/Parshah/CHUKAS.htm
------------begin quote-----------
Chabad Lubavitch
Vedibarta Bam - And You Shall Speak of Them
Holidays
Yom Kippur
by Rabbi Moshe Bogomilsky
...
The juxtaposing of Miriam's death with the red heifer teaches us that
just as karbanot - offerings - bring atonement for the Jewish
people, so does the death of tzaddikim - righteous people (Bamidbar
21:1, Rashi).
...
- quoted from
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/yom-kippur.htm
------------begin quote-----------
Parashat Chukat
...
Why does the section dealing with Miriam's death follow immediately
after the laws of the red heifer? To teach us that just as offerings
atone, so does the death of the righteous (Moed Katan 28).
- quoted from
http://www.dvar.org.il/parashot/Bamidbar/chukat.html
------------begin quote-----------
A Prayer written by HaRav Eliezer Berland, shlit"a, for Lag B'Omer.
...
the death of Tzaddikim atones just like Yom HaKippurim.
...
- quoted from
http://www.shuvubonim.org/pray3.html
------------begin quote-----------
Ohr Sameach
From
Rabbi Y. Bertram
Parshas Chukas
...
Rashi says just like Korbanos are an atonement so to is the death of
Tzaddikim.
...
- quoted from
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/sameach/archives/chukas.htm
------------begin quote-----------
Search the Chumash with Rashi
Bamidbar (Book 4: Numbers)
Chukas
Chapter 20 - Rashi
Verse 1
...
Miriam died there.
Why is the portion concerning Miriam's death adjacent to the portion of
the parah adumah?To teach you that, just as the sacrifices bring
atonement, so do the deaths of the righteous bring atonement.97
...
97 Moed Katan, 28a.
...
- quoted from
http://www.tachash.org/texis/vtx/chverse/+xwwBme5N0DWmwwwxFqrN1MxnG5q...
------------end quote-----------
Mordecai!
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mordecai! wrote:
> > randy wrote:
> >
> > > "cindys"
> > > > You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
> > > > left the
> > > > playground a long time ago. Grow up.
> > >
> > > Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
> > > As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
> > > honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
> > > might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
> > > personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
> > > that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
> > > randy
> >
> > For some strange reason - I do not trust Morris and I doubt he has
> > "serious questions."
> > Which serious question do you like?
>
> =======
>
> Example:
>
> Neither Cindy nor any other follower of Judaism has ever responded when
> I have posted the following facts about the belief in vicarious
> atonement in Judaism:
How's about what YOU did not respond to - the post on if you were
halactically Jewish according to the rabbi of the synagogue you attended.
Remember when I asked you if you were Jewish all those years ago and I
promised I believed you? Well I do. This does not mean you did not lie to me
- only that I would believe what you said,
I asked if you were Jewish by the standard of Judaism - if your mother was
Jewish or you were a convert.
You replied you were halactically Jewish - which I take as my starting
point.
You did not say your mother was Jewish - so i do not have to believe this.
I do not - because a) you did not use this in any discussion which would
trump all the other ideas.
b) Because when this very issue was discussed - you were silent on those
posts where I inadvertently suggested your mother was Jewish.
Ergo - when you had a serious reason to speak, and you were silent, then
your silence was a witness.
Now a convert is required by their own oath to do all the laws. This applies
to Christians who convert to Judaism ... they are obliged to do all the
laws.
This is the reason for Galatians ... if you think obedience to the laws is
what makes it - you have set aside the death of JC. It is forbidden for a
person who swears an oath to do all the laws to renege on such a vow. Nor
does "you do the intent of the law" qualify in the oath of a convert -
especially according to paul.
You have preached against the law - so I might believe you are an oath
breaker ... or you were not a convert. I suspect the latter.
What is left? Well the only other way of being halactically Jewish is if
your father was jewish. Then you are jewish according to the rules of the
reform movement.
This would satisfy your claim of "halachah" ...
it would not satisfy the halactic standard of any other branch of Judaism.
The MJ movement does NOT have a standard of halachah at this stage.
So you - a person who is only considered Jewish within the reform movement -
joined an orthodox synagogue claiming you were Jewish.
This is one of the reasons I distrust you.
You are welcome to prove me wrong ... but that is my analysis.
As such - an unfaithful witness ... I neither trust you nor consider your
issues as "serious."
Now, if you have any problems with my trust in you ... please advise me.
You have the opportunity to explain that your mother is Jewish ... and I
will believe what you say.
You have the opportunity to say that your conversion would be acceptable to
the rabbi of your own synagogue and again I would believe what you say.
Silence implies to me that you are not Jewish according to either conversion
or having a Jewish mother.
---
Miriam Cohen
There you have it, Ephraim; he's an orthodox Vulcan! (Although he sounds
much more like a Ferengi to me) :)
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was.
Miriam Cohen
> Morris is an Orthodox poodle, always yapping and puddling in the best
> poodle tradition.
>
> Deborah
It's highly insulting and offensive to compare pure bred creatures to
that junk yard cur! He's nothing but a mutt.
dsha...@gmail.com
> >>I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> >>Judaism.
> Ephraim wrote:
> > Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> > Bailey?
> > fart-c...@hotmail.com (Morris) lied:
> >>I am a follower of Orthodox Judaism who says that making claims without
> >>offering supporting evidence is superior to making claims with
> >>supporting evidence.
> Ephraim wrote:
> > Follower maybe, but not a Jew.
> > fart-c...@hotmail.com (Morris) lied:
> >>I am an Orthodox who says that Soncino Edition Talmud is anti-Semitic
> >>material and who says that Israeli utra-Orthodox Rabbi David Bar Chayim
> >>is a neo-Nazi anti-Semite.
> Ephraim wrote:
> > An Orthodox what? Do they have Orthodox liars in the Xian world?
> >>Why can't you get those simple facts through your pagan skull?
> > Yes, why can't you?
> >>with the utmost in insincere wishes for a long and prosperous life,
> > Bakacha,
> > Ephraim
Miriam Cohen wrote:
> There you have it, Ephraim; he's an orthodox Vulcan!
Whaaaat? Never in a million years!
>(Although he sounds much more like a Ferengi to me) :)
Not even that.
Morris is a Regulan blood worm currently infesting a poodle.
Deborah
dsha...@gmail.com
> > poodle tradition.
> > Deborah
Miriam Cohen wrote:
> It's highly insulting and offensive to compare pure bred creatures to
> that junk yard cur! He's nothing but a mutt.
I never said Morris was a purebred poodle. An inbred poodle, maybe, but
a not purebred.
There's also the possibility Morris is a Regulan blood worm currently
hiding inside a poodle's intestines.
Deborah
joes...@hotmail.com
===========
First, yes.
Second, this newsgroup is for debating theology.
It is not for acquiring personal information about debate opponents.
I have never asked you or Cindy or Patricia et al by what Halachah you
all think you are Jewish.
I do not care by what Halachah you think you are Jewish.
Berkman kept demanding that I reveal my father's name and demanding to
know when I acquired my Hebrew name and where I acquired it.
I have never demanded personal information like that from my debate
opponents.
Even when Deborah claims that Israel never destroyed Jericho, thus
contradicting Tanach, and Cindy contradicts all sorts of teachings from
Orhodox Judaism and ridicules Orthodox rabbis while claiming to be
Orthodox, I never demand proof that they are Jews according to this
Halachah or that Halachah.
Because such personal information is irrelevant.
In the above I cite material which I have now posted *5* times and not
one follower of Judaism will even acknowledge the material, even though
it is 100 percent theological and 100 percent relevant to the subject
for which this newsgroup was created.
When Cindy repeatedly announces that she refuses to debate theology
here,
and you criticize me for refusing to reveal personal information about
myself,
your side of the fence in this newsgroup is dishonest and hypocritical.
So shove your personal questions in your ear.
- moshe
joes...@hotmail.com
=========
You claim to have plenty of time for posting crap like the above and
plenty of time for calling Terry a "cunt".
Yet you refuse to even acknowledge the thread "for Deborah when she
learns to read" in which I answer several challenges you made regrading
theological issues.
And you don't acknowledge the other thread for you in which I show
Judaism saying that one person pays the price to atone for another
person's sins.
In other words, you have plenty of time for acting like an insulting
hag, but you have no time for debate.
- moshe
Mordecai!
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ok - you tell us you are halactically Jewish - but you will NOT tell us you are
halactically Jewish within the shul you attended.
Strange that .... and most interesting.
It gives one to thinking ... does it not?
Do you wonder we refuse to debate with you?
However, I am happy to debate with Randy.
Go and shove your debate in your ear.
Ephraim
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> =========
>
> You claim to have plenty of time for posting crap like the above and
> plenty of time for calling Terry a "cunt".
>
> Yet you refuse to even acknowledge the thread "for Deborah when she
> learns to read" in which I answer several challenges you made regrading
> theological issues.
>
> And you don't acknowledge the other thread for you in which I show
> Judaism saying that one person pays the price to atone for another
> person's sins.
>
> In other words, you have plenty of time for acting like an insulting
> hag, but you have no time for debate.
>
> - moshe
You challenge, you lie, you critisize all that is holy to us and you
even say you are Jewish.........another lie. Only G-D knows, blessed be
he, why you would ever want to be a Jew. A schmuck maybe.
Can you honestly say, "I am halactically Jewish within the Orthodox
shul I attend".
If not, YOU ARE what the participants of this NG have labelled you.
Live with it.
Ephraim
fla...@verizon.net
On 8-Jun-2006, "Mordecai!" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net>
wrote:
Yet another confession from Morris.
He doesn't do so because he knows he's lying.
And this isn;t jusr projectionism: it's the fact that he
knows his enemies can prove what he cannot.
> > I do not care by what Halachah you think you are Jewish.
> > Berkman kept demanding that I reveal my father's name and demanding to
> > know when I acquired my Hebrew name and where I acquired it.
And this is what happens to liars: they are ocntinually asked to prove
themselves.
> > I have never demanded personal information like that from my debate
> > opponents.
> > Even when Deborah claims that Israel never destroyed Jericho, thus
> > contradicting Tanach, and Cindy contradicts all sorts of teachings from
> > Orhodox Judaism and ridicules Orthodox rabbis
A lie.
Saying that they are a "dime a dozen" is NOT ridicule.
It's MERELY a comment on just how MANY there are.
If anything, it's a *compliment* to Orthodox rabbis.
> > while claiming to be
> > Orthodox, I never demand proof that they are Jews according to this
> > Halachah or that Halachah.
> > Because such personal information is irrelevant.
> >
Only when he wants it to be.
> > In the above I cite material which I have now posted *5* times and not
> > one follower of Judaism will even acknowledge the material, even though
> > it is 100 percent theological and 100 percent relevant to the subject
> > for which this newsgroup was created.
Because it's a lie and abso;utely irrelevent - duh.
> >
> > When Cindy repeatedly announces that she refuses to debate theology
> > here,
> > and you criticize me for refusing to reveal personal information about
> > myself,
> > your side of the fence in this newsgroup is dishonest and hypocritical.
> >
Wrong again - 2 separate issues.
> >
> > So shove your personal questions in your ear.
> >
> > - moshe
>
> Ok - you tell us you are halactically Jewish - but you will NOT tell us
> you are
> halactically Jewish within the shul you attended.
> Strange that .... and most interesting.
> It gives one to thinking ... does it not?
>
> Do you wonder we refuse to debate with you?
> However, I am happy to debate with Randy.
>
I wouldn't bother debating with any of them.
Morris proved long ago that anything you answer he will ignore & just ask
again, later.
Susan
fla...@verizon.net
On 8-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > =========
> >
> > You claim to have plenty of time for posting crap like the above and
> > plenty of time for calling Terry a "cunt".
Spoken like the sexist hypocrite he is.
He's called women all sorts of foul things, and none of us
has earned it for lying and hatemongering like Terry has.
[snip rest of lies]
>
>
> You challenge, you lie, you critisize all that is holy to us and you
> even say you are Jewish.........another lie. Only G-D knows, blessed be
> he, why you would ever want to be a Jew. A schmuck maybe.
>
> Can you honestly say, "I am halactically Jewish within the Orthodox
> shul I attend".
>
He hasn't been able to hoestly say *anything* that I've seen.
It's one of the reasons I try not to see his posts.
I hate lies, and always feel compelled to debunk them.
Susan
Mordecai!
fla...@verizon.net wrote:
You are fortunate - he discusses my genitalia, he discusses my supposed
bestiality ...
Also he lies straight out about my business and my methodology ... and seeks to
discredit my methods using public slander.
I think he calls you a whore? that is the sort of person he is ...
No - I do not think anyone ought to care to debate with him.
joes...@hotmail.com
===========
Look at the exchange above and you will see me responding to your
question:
--------begin quote---------
> > > How's about what YOU did not respond to - the post on if you were
> > > halactically Jewish according to the rabbi of the synagogue you attended.
> >
> > ===========
> >
> > First, yes.
---------end quote----------
Mordecai!
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
I do not trust you -- yes means ...what? Yes means that
a) You are halactically jewish according to the rabbi of the orthodox synagogue you
attended?
or b) Yes means you have responded?
Tell me in exact words ... "I am halactically Jewish according to the rabbi of the
orthodox Shul I attended." No more pussy footing about.
Yes does NOT mean anything.
I want to know - when you attended the orthodox shul -were you counted as part of the
minyan - and SHOULD you have been counted as such!
Now it is no longer personal information I want - it is your integrity which I
question.
Mordecai!
"Mordecai!" wrote:
> randy wrote:
>
> > "cindys"
> > > You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
> > > left the
> > > playground a long time ago. Grow up.
> >
> > Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
> > As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
> > honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
> > might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
> > personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
> > that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
> > randy
>
> For some strange reason - I do not trust Morris and I doubt he has
> "serious questions."
> Which serious question do you like?
>
> As you have identified the problem is that Morris "uses levity" which
> obviously seems to be "the problem" - perhaps you might care to present the
> "serious question" - without levity ... for us to examine?
>
> If you like, I am sure Rob will talk to you and examine the issues with
> you, as you perceive him as one whom you are happy to talk to.
>
> Thanks.
>
Well, if you will not tell us which serious and specific issues we will not
discuss, might I ask what you are doing to the serious and important issues
raised by Ephraim? They are surely serious and important to Christianity and
you fail to discuss those - do you not?
Why do you think we Jews ought to discuss your serious and important issues -
when you do not discuss ours?
Thanks again.
joes...@hotmail.com
========
Mordecai!
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
So you REFUSE to tell me that you are halactically Jewish according to the rabbi of the
orthodox synagogue which you attended?
And instead use this ambiguous statement.
And when challenged - cut the challenge and repeat an ambiguous statement?
Morris - I am well aware of your psychological condition wherein you tell factual
statements deliberately designed to cause others to believe a lie.
You might tell the truth - but you are trying to get me to believe a lie.
Deception is to get people to believe a lie ... and it does not matter if you tell the
truth in your attempts to cause people to believe a lie - this is still deception.
Your DEEDS testify of you ...
You know what is required - and you have lied - and you lie about lying - and you lie to
deceive ...
But in all these lies, you can correctly claim "I am making factually correct statements
..."
I do not doubt you are making factually correct statements. ... except when you said I
told you to work on your spine. That was not a factually correct statement - that was an
OUTRIGHT LIE.
Sigh ... Morris, before I would have tried to help you to recover from your psychological
condition In fact I did so. Before I would care about the fact your are a psychological
liar and a factual liar and a deceiving conniving, manipulating human ...
But, alas, things changed.
Alas, who care.
You are welcome to remain as you are.
Here is the sad thing - everyone knows ... but nobody cares enough even to tell you that
you are wrong.
How sad.
Well, you made your bed - lie in it.
Whilst I doubt you are a jew - you have made it clear that you will not tell me - and I
frankly do not care.
It does not matter - you do not matter.
Oh - also I am not even going to add the part you clipped which will show the people how
dishonest you are.
They already know.
Patricia Heil
<fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:ryJhg.7147$PY6.5897@trnddc05...
>
> On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
>
>> fact-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
>> > Judaism.
>>
>>
>> Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
>> Bailey?
>>
> B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
What not even out of a cannon?
Mordecai!
Patricia Heil wrote:
> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:ryJhg.7147$PY6.5897@trnddc05...
> >
> > On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> >
> >> fact-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> >> > Judaism.
> >>
> >>
> >> Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> >> Bailey?
> >>
> > B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
>
> What not even out of a cannon?
No way - he would miss the target.
Miriam Cohen
fla...@verizon.net
On 8-Jun-2006, "Patricia Heil" <paj...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:ryJhg.7147$PY6.5897@trnddc05...
> >
> > On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> >
> >> fact-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> >> > Judaism.
> >>
> >>
> >> Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> >> Bailey?
> >>
> > B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
>
> What not even out of a cannon?
Good grief, what a typo on my part!!
I guess I was thinking about how they'd rather fire him.....
Susan
Miriam Cohen
That I can agree with :)
dsha...@gmail.com
> > >> > I am an Orthodox who says that Orthodox rabbis misrepresent Orthodox
> > >> > Judaism.
> > > On 7-Jun-2006, "Ephraim" <in...@ziontimes.com> wrote:
> > >> Orthodox, what? Not an Orthodox Jew. Orthodox ringmaster for Barnum and
> > >> Bailey?
> > <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:ryJhg.7147$PY6.5897@trnddc05...
> > > B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
> > What not even out of a cannon?
fla...@verizon.net wrote:
> Good grief, what a typo on my part!!
> I guess I was thinking about how they'd rather fire him.....
> Susan
What? But I liked it the first way. "B&B wouldn't even fire a bigot
like this" sounds like something Groucho might have said about Morris.
One thing, anyway, Groucho might have said about Morris.
If Morris is "an Orthodox", can I be the pope?
Deborah
joes...@hotmail.com
=========
========
--------begin quote---------
> > > How's about what YOU did not respond to - the post on if you were
> > > halactically Jewish according to the rabbi of the synagogue you attended.
> > ===========
> > First, yes.
---------end quote-----------
dsha...@gmail.com
> >>>poodle tradition.
> >>>Deborah
> > Miriam Cohen wrote:
> >>It's highly insulting and offensive to compare pure bred creatures to
> >>that junk yard cur! He's nothing but a mutt.
> > I never said Morris was a purebred poodle. An inbred poodle, maybe, but
> > a not purebred.
> > There's also the possibility Morris is a Regulan blood worm currently
> > hiding inside a poodle's intestines.
Miriam Cohen wrote:
> That I can agree with :)
The estimation was made from the facts as presented on an orthodox
website, you understand. <g>
Deborah
dsha...@gmail.com
> >>>poodle tradition.
> >>>Deborah
> > Miriam Cohen wrote:
> >>It's highly insulting and offensive to compare pure bred creatures to
> >>that junk yard cur! He's nothing but a mutt.
> > I never said Morris was a purebred poodle. An inbred poodle, maybe, but
> > a not purebred.
> > There's also the possibility Morris is a Regulan blood worm currently
> > hiding inside a poodle's intestines.
Miriam Cohen wrote:
> That I can agree with :)
The estimation of Morris's Regulan blood wormship was made from the
Miriam Cohen
Yes, I see :)
fla...@verizon.net
On 8-Jun-2006, dsha...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > <fla...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > > news:ryJhg.7147$PY6.5897@trnddc05...
> > > > B&B wouldn;t fire a bigot like this;
>
> > > What not even out of a cannon?
>
> fla...@verizon.net wrote:
> > Good grief, what a typo on my part!!
> > I guess I was thinking about how they'd rather fire him.....
> > Susan
>
> What? But I liked it the first way. "B&B wouldn't even fire a bigot
> like this" sounds like something Groucho might have said about Morris.
> One thing, anyway, Groucho might have said about Morris.
>
How very kind of you.
>
> If Morris is "an Orthodox", can I be the pope?
>
Why not - I've been called the Anti-Christ
(Or have you forgotten the poll....?)
Susan
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>"cindys"
>> You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
>> left the
>> playground a long time ago. Grow up.
>
>Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
>As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
>honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
>might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
>personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
>that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
Did you ever stop to think that she might be responding that way to
Morris for a good reason? I haven't had anything but instructive
interaction with Cindy. I respect her, and though I disagree very
strongly with her understanding of Christianity, I don't think I've
ever been abusive of her religion or personally insulting towards her.
(Nor do I think she's been especially or overly abusive of
Christianity.) Whenever I have a question about Judaism, guess who
answers me?
Respect is a two way road, Randy. Judaism get precious little respect
around here, and I can see why Jews might respond that way.
Padraic.
>randy
la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
Terry Cross
No respect for Jews in SCJ? How strange! They should do a little
houscleaning, then.
Or do you mean Jews get no respect when they come into alt.messianic,
call it "alt.messy," and invent filth about Jesus? If that is your
statement, you are certainly correct to be outraged - I guess. Jews
should be respected wherever they go, regardless of whom they tred on,
and regardless of what they defile. I shall order up a new bag or rose
petals for Cindy's next visit to throw at her feet.
TCross
Terry Cross
No respect for Jews in SCJ? How strange! They should do a little
joes...@hotmail.com
.......
> If Morris is "an Orthodox", can I be the pope?
=======
"Morris" never claimed to be Orthodox.
"Shin-dee" claimed to be Orthodox even though she ridicules Orthodox
rabbis and contradicts Orthodox doctrine.
Learn to read.
- moshe
Linda Lee
to see how ludicrous it looks to throw personal insults at each other,
especially when this is supposed to be a debate forum allegedly for why
Jews should or should not accept Yeshuwa` the Messiah.
Christians who ridicule the Jewish religion and Rabbis to Jews are not
ever going to convince anyone that the Messiah was God incarnate and
certainly won't convert anyone if that is your aim. They aren't doing
God or themselves any favors and certainly are not promoting
Christianity.
God said to Abraham in Gen. 12:3, I will make thee a great nation, and
I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a
blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that
curseth thee: and *in thee shall all families of the earth be
blessed." * Why curse yourselves by cursing Judaism.
And it makes me sad also to see Jews ridicule the Messiah when it was
the purpose of the Jewish prophets to bring to remembrance where we all
fell from and announce the coming of God in the flesh as the Saviour.
Their purpose should be recognized.
"All we like sheep have gone astray ...the iniquity of us all"
(Isa. 53:6). We're all in the same boat. In Zech. 2:10-11 God, "the
Lord of Hosts", says, "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for,
lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. And
*many nations ...shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of
thee,* and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto
thee."
God is here saying He will come in the flesh to the Earth, and men will
know that God in Heaven ("the Lord of Hosts") has 'sent him'
who is in the flesh. [This is reminiscent of Isa. 44:6, which refers to
"the Lord the King of Israel" (who would be God incarnate as the
Messiah) and "his redeemer the Lord of Hosts" (God in Heaven) who
are respectively God in the flesh and the same God in Heaven, i.e. God
incarnate 'redeemed' (upheld) by His Holy Spirit in Heaven.]
The prophet Zechariah is stating that God says that someday He will
"dwell in the midst of thee", even as the Messiah was later said to
have "dwelt among us" in John 1:14.
If you want to convince anyone to accept the Messiah, explain what
appear to be inconsistencies to those who do not understand the purpose
of the prophets. For instance - God incarnated to bring judgment upon
the world and to save us:
The Messiah says in John 9:39, "For judgment I am come into this
world".
In John 12:31, the Messiah said, "Now is the judgment of this world:
now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
The spirit of Satan had been free to roam the earth prior to this, as
Luke 22:3 says of Satan in the form of a fallen spirit, "Then entered
Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot".
When Yeshuwa` left the Earth and became resurrected as Spirit, Satan
was cast out of "this world" - the earthly plane inhabited by
humankind in the flesh.
The word here translated 'cast' - Gk. 1544 - means to eject,
expel, drive out, cast out, and pluck out. It is from two words, Gk.
906 and Gk. 1537. Gk. 906 means to throw violently, "cast (out) X
dung", and strike. Gk. 1537 in part means origin (the point whence
motion or action proceeds), out (of place, time), often used "of
completion".
Satan is designated "Beelzebub, the prince of the devils" (Matt.
12:24). Beelzebub - Gk. 954 - is defined "dung-god"; "a name
of Satan:--Beelzebub".
These definitions indicate God violently struck Satan and expelled him
from the place where there is "motion", "action", and
"time" - the physical realm. (Other indications that this
scripture is referring to Satan having been "cast out" of the
earthly plane when the Saviour incarnated and resurrected are the many
references elsewhere in scripture to God having long ago cast Satan and
the fallen angels down to the Earth and down to Hell.)
In addition, as Yeshuwa` became Spirit again, i.e. died in the flesh,
he exclaimed, "It is finished" (John 19:30).
What was "finished" was God's plan to provide a way of salvation
to those who have fallen who are willing that God save them.
Yeshuwa` had fulfilled God's promise to King David which David had
written of in Psalm 22, and that is why Yeshuwa`, just prior to his
death, quoted what David prophesied in Ps. 22:1, "My God, my God, why
hast thou forsaken me?"
When he resurrected into Heaven, all "angels and authorities and
powers being made subject to him" (I Pet. 3:22), and the spirit of
Satan (the "dung-god") as "the prince of this world be cast
out" of the earthly plane, God's plan was brought to
"completion", and Satan's fate, his eventual destruction, was
irreversibly sealed.
It was not yet the final judgment day for fallen mankind, but God
finalized His plan for us at the time of the resurrection of the
Saviour. And God and the Saviour are one and the same God. In Rev.
1:11, the Messiah says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the
last". In Rev. 1:17, the Messiah says, "...I am the first and the
last".
In Isa. 41:4, God says, "I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I
am he."
In Isa. 44:6 the prophet Isaiah says, "Thus saith the Lord the King
of Israel [Yeshuwa` the Messiah] and his redeemer the Lord of Hosts
[God]; I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no
God."
The Father and the Son are here both "the first" God (the Messiah)
and "the last" God (the Father in Heaven) because they are ONE.
Prov. 30:4-6 says of God, "...what is his name, and what is his son's
name, if thou canst tell? ...Every word of God is pure ...Add thou not
unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
I John 2:23 continues, "...whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath
not the Father". They have not the Father, if they deny the Son,
because Father and Son are one in the same.
In Isa. 46:9-10 God says, "Remember the former things of old: for I
am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things
that are not yet done".
Linda Lee
Correction: In reference to this: In Isa. 44:6 the prophet Isaiah
says, "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel [Yeshuwa` the Messiah]
and his redeemer the Lord of Hosts
[God]; I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no
God."
It should read:
The Father and the Son are here both "the first" God (the Father in
Heaven)
and "the last" God (the Messiah) because they are ONE.
joes...@hotmail.com
> I have been reading this 'argument', which you might all look at again
> to see how ludicrous it looks to throw personal insults at each other,
> especially when this is supposed to be a debate forum allegedly for why
> Jews should or should not accept Yeshuwa` the Messiah.
>
> Christians who ridicule the Jewish religion and Rabbis to Jews are not
> ever going to convince anyone
======
Matthew 15 and Matthew 23.
Shame on Jesus.
- moshe
Linda Lee
moshe,
You are not God, and it is wrong to think that you can act as God. It
is okay for God incarnate to criticize. We are not the lawgivers or the
lawenforcers.
Of course, as one who believes in the Messiah as God incarnate, I think
those in Judaism have been misled and do not understand the point
behind what their prophets proclaimed. Still, we are told we will
suffer if we curse them. I see that the Rabbis have a tendency to
strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel as the Messiah said, but
you'll only drive them away by repeatedly demonstrating that and close
their minds further away from any belief in the Messiah - you must see
that by now. And it can't be healthy for anyone.
You should give them information on the Messiah as God incarnate - not
on the errors and contradictions in Rabbinical teachings on matters
other than God's intentions to incarnate as the Saviour and how the
Messiah pointed out and acted out what had been prophesied concerning
his coming into the flesh. There's lots of material on those two most
important points. And you don't need to convince them that Paul is
okay (you know I don't think he is) because acceptance of Paul is not
the issue here - acceptance of the Messiah is - right? And Paul doesn't
even quote the Messiah about anything except his own appointment
anyway.
How can such things as the following quote from Zechariah be ignored?
God is saying outright that he will incarnate and live among them and
that mankind will know that God is behind this incarnation and that
this is a God for many nations, not just one.
Zech. 2:10-11 God, "the Lord of Hosts", says, "Sing and rejoice,
O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of
thee, saith the Lord. And many nations ...shall be my people: and I
will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of
hosts hath sent me unto thee."
But people do ignore it because they can't explain it because it
doesn't jibe with what they've been taught. When people get confused,
they tend to go into denial mode - all humans do this whether they
realize it or not. But confusion can eventually dissipate and things
can become clear at times.
joes...@hotmail.com
> joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Linda Lee wrote:
> > > I have been reading this 'argument', which you might all look at again
> > > to see how ludicrous it looks to throw personal insults at each other,
> > > especially when this is supposed to be a debate forum allegedly for why
> > > Jews should or should not accept Yeshuwa` the Messiah.
> > >
> > > Christians who ridicule the Jewish religion and Rabbis to Jews are not
> > > ever going to convince anyone
> >
> > ======
> >
> > Matthew 15 and Matthew 23.
> >
> > Shame on Jesus.
> >
> > - moshe
>
> moshe,
>
> You are not God, and it is wrong to think that you can act as God. It
> is okay for God incarnate to criticize. We are not the lawgivers or the
> lawenforcers.
=========
Matthew 3:7 and Mathew 11:11
Acts 7:51-53
Titus 1:10-13
Cleo
--
<joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150372826....@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
moshe is your aim in serving G-d to draw the sinner to Jesus or to ridicule
and always tell him he is wrong? Remember you catch more flies with honey
than you do with vineger.
Cleo
>
Terry Cross
Cleo, would you classify your message as "honey" or "vinegar?"
TCross
joes...@hotmail.com
=========
As I already cited, John the Baptist and Jesus and Stephen and Paul
sometimes spoke vinegar.
As I have cited for 7 years, Jesus did not speak the same way to all
people.
When Jesus was addressing those people who were merely lost, Jesus
spoke with compassion.
But when Jesus was addressing people who were hateful and hypocritical,
Jesus spoke in very harsh terms.
In Matthew 7:6 Jesus tells us that we should likewise distinguish
between those who are merely lost and those who are hateful "swine" and
"dogs".
When Deborah calls Terry a "cunt" and says that Jesus should "fuck off
and die" and calls me a "poodle fart" "Fake Jew", Deborah is a *swine*.
When Ephraim calls me gay and transvestite, etc, Ephraim is being a
"swine".
When Cindy claims that I am a Jew-hater who posts neo-Nazi material
from neo-Nazi Web sites when I am really quoting rabbis at Jewish Web
sites and giving links to those Jewish Web sites, Cindy is a *swine".
Such people are not merely lost.
They are hateful hypocrites who violate Judaism's prohibitions against
slander and gossip and false witness in their alleged attempts to
defend Judaism.
Nowhere does the New Testament say that we are supposed to give honey
to hateful hypocrites like that.
The New Testament says that we are supposed to rebuke such hateful
hypocrites.
As I have said here for 7 years:
Most people in most synagogues are very nice people whom you would be
glad to have as next-door neighbors.
The Christians here should not judge all followers of Judaism by the
few bad apples that post here.
Likewise, you should not assume that you know how I treat all followers
of Judaism based on how I rebuke the few bad apples who post here.
- moshe
Cleo
news:1150394068....@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What would you think, and why? Terry it is more important as to how the
other person understands what was said instead of the person who sent it.
If the message is misunderstood then the person who sent it need to make it
more clearer.
Terry was what I said easy or hard to read. Did you feel anger or not? Did I
attack or did I just made a statement?
Cleo
>
Cleo
news:1150395700.2...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks Moshe for you candid answer. I had a question and you answered like a
gentelman, thanks. I might not always agree with you and I know you do not
always agree with me. As I have been absent from this ng for a period of
time I needed to ask you the above question. I know tend to get upset too
easily, and some of the things that you say at times does not set with me. I
know you can say, "so what," but I wanted to be honest with you. If you feel
that you are doing what Jesus would do then so be it. I will voice this
subject no more.
Cleo
>
joes...@hotmail.com
=========
You and I have often clashed in the past, but I have *always*
considered you my sister in the Lord and I always will.
There is a line in the old 1947 movie "Portrait of Jennie" (based on a
story of 10 years earlier) in which Jenny explains that she was
fighting with her friend.
The man asks Jenny how she could "fight" with a "friend".
Jennie replies that it's nice having a friend to fight with:
------begin quote-------
JENNIE: "I can fight Cecily. She's bigger but I'm stronger. I can fight
her good."
ADAMS: "I thought Cecily was your best friend."
JENNIE: "She is".
--------end quote------------
- moshe
Terry Cross
> > > > >
> > > > > You are not God, and it is wrong to think that you can act as God. It
> > > > > is okay for God incarnate to criticize. We are not the lawgivers or the
> > > > > lawenforcers.
> > > >
> > > > =========
> > > >
> > > > Matthew 3:7 and Mathew 11:11
> > > >
> > > > Acts 7:51-53
> > > >
> > > > Titus 1:10-13
> > >
> > > moshe is your aim in serving G-d to draw the sinner to Jesus or to ridicule
> > > and always tell him he is wrong? Remember you catch more flies with honey
> > > than you do with vineger.
> > >
> > > Cleo
> >
> > Cleo, would you classify your message as "honey" or "vinegar?"
> >
> > TCross
>
> What would you think, and why? Terry it is more important as to how the
> other person understands what was said instead of the person who sent it.
> If the message is misunderstood then the person who sent it need to make it
> more clearer.
>
> Terry was what I said easy or hard to read. Did you feel anger or not? Did I
> attack or did I just made a statement?
As you understand your intent, so should you understand Moshe's. Had
you been watching, you would see that Moshe does not post harsh words
without cause.
I am sorry you did not understand the rhetorical question. I did not
feel anger. For a message of bitterest emotion, read something by
Deborah Sharavi.
TCross
Emma
>
><joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Oooh, Cleo, I don't think so.
Moshe was not a gentlemen towards other posters
in that reply.
Deborah, Cindy, Ephraim are "swine",
"bad apples" and "hateful hypocrites"??
Is that what you think? Are you agreeing with that???
This doesn't seem like you, Cleo. You are usually
so friendly and nice to everyone.
--
~*~*~
Emma
http://www.anglicansforisrael.com
emmas...@yahoo.co.uk
joes...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> >
> > >
> > > As I already cited, John the Baptist and Jesus and Stephen and Paul
> > > sometimes spoke vinegar.
Same old moshe. Thinks he's on a par with John the Baptist, Jesus,
Stephen and
Paul. Too big for your boots, that's all!
All the above proves is that you are both trolls par excellence.
Cleo has forgotten that you are crossposting into a Jewish group.
And you don't give two hoots for Jesus or Christianity.
If you did, you wouldn't be teamed up with Terry.
I don't ever call other posters anti-Semitic but I make an exception in
Terry's case. She is the most anti-Semitic person I have every met.
She tries to be cool about it though, but it comes across to me as
contrived and comically sinister. Like a comedy caricature of a
Nazi... "Ve haf vays of making you talk!"
I don't know where that saying came from, but it reminds me a lot
of Terry when she's in full rant.
Cleo
news:e6sdp...@drn.newsguy.com...
Hi Emma, I was considering Moshe's reaction toward me. He treated me and my
question like a gentelman. That is all. No Emma I am not like myself, have
not been for some time. Phyically I feel lousy. Emotionally at times I am a
wreck. I ventured in for just one question and now I will be silent and not
put more stress on me than I can handle. Take care and your pastor did the
right thing by leaving because she could not forgive-yet. She need to clear
her mind and her heart and let G-d heal her soul. I wish her well, and she
is still a good Christian, just a hurting one that needs our prayers not our
cencorship.
Blessings to all
Cleo
Terry Cross
Everything remonds you of everything. That is no comment on the world
- that is just a short circuit in your cerebrum.
TCross
fact-c...@hotmail.com
...
> For a message of bitterest emotion, read something by
> Deborah Sharavi.
=======
------------begin quote----------
Thread: Scriptural Basis of Judaism (not)
From: dshar...@hotmail.com - view profile
Date: Fri, May 12 2006 5:06 pm
Email: dshar...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.messianic, soc.culture.jewish
...
Creaming in your jeans over these thoughts?
------------begin quote----------
Thread: Scriptural Basis of Judaism (not)
From: dshar...@hotmail.com
Date: Tues, May 16 2006 2:47 pm
Email: dshar...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.messianic, soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.israel
...
I'm still farting in your face.
------------begin quote----------
Thread:Cindy contradicts Judaism big-time
From: dshara...@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, May 19 2006 3:46 pm
Email: dshara...@hotmail.com
Groups: alt.messianic, soc.culture.jewish
...
Dear Jesus: give me eternal life, and a hundred million bucks with
which to enjoy it, and I will eat your flesh and drunk your blood. If
you don't give it me, then FOAD.
------------end quote----------
For an explanation of that last one:
------------begin quote----------
FOAD
(chat) FOAD - fuck off and die.
- quoted from
http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/FOAD
------------end quote----------
------------begin quote----------
Thread: Further proof of how vile Deborah is
soc.culture.jewish - Jun 2, 4:17 pm by dshar...@hotmail.co
... I haven't called anybody a missionary, you lying queynte. ...
soc.culture.jewish - Jun 2, 4:17 pm by dshar...@hotmail.com - 36
messages - 11 authors
------------begin quote----------
Thread: Origins of the Jesus Mythos
soc.culture.jewish - Jun 2, 2:57 pm by dshar...@hotmail.com
... I haven't called anybody a missionary, you silly queynte....
------------begin quote----------
Thread: Morris scuttles off again
alt.messianic - Jun 1, 5:49 pm by dshara...@hotmail.com
... like the ignorant, uneducated Jew hating queynte you are. ...
------------end quote----------
For definition of "queynte" see:
www.answers.com/topic/cunt
www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/queynte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt
ww.librarius.com/canttran/wifetale/wifetale437-456.htm
www.etymonline.com/index. php?search=cunt&searchmode=none
dsha...@gmail.com
> > I don't ever call other posters anti-Semitic but I make an exception in
> > Terry's case. She is the most anti-Semitic person I have every met.
> > She tries to be cool about it though, but it comes across to me as
> > contrived and comically sinister. Like a comedy caricature of a
> > Nazi... "Ve haf vays of making you talk!"
> > I don't know where that saying came from, but it reminds me a lot
> > of Terry when she's in full rant.
Terry Cross wrote:
> Everything remonds you of everything. That is no comment on the world
> - that is just a short circuit in your cerebrum.
> TCross
Evidently nothing reminds Terry of any extrabiblical sources for her
antisemtic rant:
"I see 100,000 Egyptian children, Amaleks, Midianites,
Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites,
Hivites, and Jebusites who also disagree. And look,
there are tens of thousands of Benjaminites. And
there are the thousands of Gentile women and children
driven off to starve in the wilderness by the Godly Ezra.
A river of humanity become a river of blood and gore."
- Terry Cross <tcross77 @hotmail.com>, Wed, May 17 2006 10:06 am
Apparently the ignorant antisemite made it up after a few puffs on a
crack pipe, after her goosestepping practice.
Deborah
Terry Cross
Why do you need extra-Biblical sources? How can you say you are a Jew
if you do not believe in the Hebrew Bible?
TCross
dsha...@gmail.com
> I'm still farting in your face.
> Dear Jesus: give me eternal life, and a hundred million bucks with
> which to enjoy it, and I will eat your flesh and drunk your blood. If
> you don't give it me, then FOAD.
> (chat) FOAD - fuck off and die.
> - quoted from
> http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/FOAD
Morris/me/Janet seems to be quite excited over the foregoing. I'm
surprised the twit is so unconversant with net language s/he had to
look up FOAD.
> For definition of "queynte" see:
> www.answers.com/topic/cunt
> www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/queynte
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt
> ww.librarius.com/canttran/wifetale/wifetale437-456.htm
> www.etymonline.com/index. php?search=cunt&searchmode=none
I bet Morris/me/Janet just loved looking up all those definitions for
"cunt".
Evidently Morris/me/Janet is thoroughly at ease with the expressions of
his/her fellow antisemite Benzonah Creamer:
"you sick jew cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 4, 8:47 pm
"you thieving faggot jew cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 2, 8:50 am
"bent faggot asshole, sick jew cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 2, 10:40 am
"you queer cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 20, 7:35 am
"you fag hag"
Ben Cramer, Jun 4, 8:47 pm
"you chicken shit yid cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 21, 11:09 am
"plagiarising yid cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 4, 2:32 pm
"plagiarist cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 4, 1:35 pm
"grubby cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 2, 10:36 am
"you dopey cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 3, 9:44 am; Jun 1, 6:04 pm; May 31, 5:06 pm; May 30,
8:11 pm; May 30, 8:08 pm; May 30, 8:00 pm; May 30, 7:58 pm; May 30,
7:50 pm; May 30, 7:44 pm; May 30, 5:50 pm; May 29, 9:25 pm; May 27,
8:39 pm; May 27, 5:18 pm; May 27, 12:42 pm; May 23, 5:24 pm; May 23,
4:59 pm; May 23, 4:54 pm; May 23, 4:40 pm; May 23, 4:31 pm; May 21,
12:00 pm; May 21, 10:32 am; May 20, 8:58 pm; May 20, 7:26 pm; May 20,
12:46 pm
"you dopey, dopey cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 30, 7:34 pm
"you dopey old cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 27, 11:27 am; May 23, 10:40 pm; May 23, 10:34 pm; May
23, 8:25 pm; May 23, 4:49 pm; May 20, 9:40 am
"you dopey, cowardly cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 21, 10:27 am
"you dopey, pedantic cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 30, 7:41 pm
"you dopey, delusional and pedantic old cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 31, 9:00 pm; May 29, 9:15 pm
"you dopey polack cunt"
May 20, 7:48 am by Ben Cramer
"Lying cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 31, 7:42 pm
"you lying old cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 27, 11:29 am; May 22, 4:25 pm;
"deceitful old cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 22, 4:47 pm
"Gutless cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 30, 8:38 pm
"you fat cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 29, 9:43 pm
"you lying fat cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 30, 7:59 pm; May 31, 5:29 pm
"you dull cunt"
Jun 3, 9:46 am; Jun 1, 7:05 pm; May 30, 7:56 pm; May 23, 4:33 pm;
"you stupid old cunt"
Ben Cramer, May 22, 4:29 pm
"you thick Irish cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 10, 8:29 pm; Jun 10, 7:53 pm; Jun 4, 8:57 pm; Jun 4,
8:51 pm; Jun 4, 8:44, Jun 4, 8:42 pm; Jun 4, 8:41 pm; Jun 4, 8:37 pm;
Jun 4, 8:34 pm; Jun 4, 7:29 pm; Jun 4, 7:15 pm; Jun 4, 7:14 pm; Jun 4,
7:13 pm; Jun 2, 10:44 am; Jun 1, 7:17 pm; Jun 1, 7:14 pm; Jun 1, 7:13
pm; Jun 1, 7:12 pm; Jun 1, 7:01 pm; Jun 1, 6:05 pm; Jun 1, 5:53 pm; Jun
1, 5:34 pm; Jun 1, 5:00 pm; May 31, 7:39 pm; May 31, 7:35 pm; May 31,
7:25 pm; May 31, 7:10 pm; May 31, 7:05 pm; May 31, 7:03 pm; May 31,
7:00 pm; May 31, 6:59 pm; May 31, 6:57 pm; May 31, 5:49 pm; May 31,
5:40 pm, May 31, 5:12 pm; May 31, 5:08 pm; May 31, 5:02 pm; May 30,
9:08 pm; May 30, 9:07 pm; May 30, 9:06 pm; May 30, 9:03 pm; May 30,
8:59 pm; May 30, 8:55 pm; May 30, 8:50 pm; May 30, 8:42 pm; May 30,
8:38 pm; May 29, 10:04 pm; May 29, 10:02 pm; May 29, 9:58 pm; May 29,
9:54 pm; May 29, 9:47 pm; May 29, 9:46 pm; May 29, 9:46 pm; May 29,
9:37 pm; May 29, 9:33 pm; May 27, 12:42 pm; May 26, 5:50 pm; May 23,
5:47 pm; May 23, 5:42 pm; May 22, 5:54 pm; May 22, 5:37 pm; May 22,
5:30 pm; May 22, 5:23 pm; May 22, 5:17 pm; May 21, 4:50 pm; May 21,
4:48 pm; May 21, 4:46 pm; May 21, 4:45 pm; May 21, 4:43 pm; May 21,
4:41 pm; May 21, 4:38 pm; May 21, 4:36 pm; May 21, 4:35 pm; May 20,
5:29 pm; May 20, 8:17 am; May 20, 8:05 am; May 20, 7:58 am; May 20,
7:53 am; May 20, 7:43 am; May 20, 7:39 am
"you lying, thick Irish cunt"
Ben Cramer, Jun 10, 8:04 pm; Jun 10, 7:57 pm
"you fuckwit"
Ben Cramer, May 31, 5:12 pm
Deborah
emmas...@yahoo.co.uk
Cleo wrote:
> >> >
>> Hi Emma, I was considering Moshe's reaction toward me. He treated me and my
> question like a gentelman.
Sorry Cleo, but I don't see anything gentlemanly about a man calling
women posters names.
>That is all. No Emma I am not like myself, have
> not been for some time. Phyically I feel lousy. Emotionally at times I am a
> wreck.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I hope you feel better soon.
>I ventured in for just one question and now I will be silent and not
> put more stress on me than I can handle.
OK, but it's nice to know you are still reading the threads.
> Take care and your pastor did the
> right thing by leaving because she could not forgive-yet. She need to clear
> her mind and her heart and let G-d heal her soul. I wish her well, and she
> is still a good Christian, just a hurting one that needs our prayers not our
> cencorship.
Yes, I think you're right, although she's not my vicar.
She's somebody I heard about in the news.
I think she was very honest and quite brave to
admit her feelings.
Anyway, I hope we hear from you again soon, Cleo.
I'm glad you haven't left the group completely.
dsha...@hotmail.com
Terry Cross wrote:
> Why do you need extra-Biblical sources? How can you say you are a Jew
> if you do not believe in the Hebrew Bible?
> TCross
What, ANOTHER sidedodge? Isn't it clear enough to you YET. You KNOW you
claimed you could see "others have lined up with THEIR stories". That
clearly indicates those "others" possess stories apart from the
biblical references which you can see, -- or you claim you can see.
Belief in the bible has nothing to do with your claim of being able to
see "others lined up with THEIR stories." Put up some of those
extrabiblical stories you claim you can see.
While you're at it (NOT), would you care to learn why another of your
claims, that no evidence exists for any "Hebrew civilization" prior to
your arbitrary date of "350 BC", is equally fallacious? Probably not.
You suffer from an allergy to facts, it seems.
Deborah
emmas...@yahoo.co.uk
Terry Cross wrote:
> > >
>>>Emma wrote:
>>> > I don't ever call other posters anti-Semitic but I make an exception in
> > Terry's case. She is the most anti-Semitic person I have every met.
> > She tries to be cool about it though, but it comes across to me as
> > contrived and comically sinister. Like a comedy caricature of a
> > Nazi... "Ve haf vays of making you talk!"
> >
> > I don't know where that saying came from, but it reminds me a lot
> > of Terry when she's in full rant.
>
> Everything remonds you of everything. That is no comment on the world
> - that is just a short circuit in your cerebrum.
>
Now Terry, what did Suzanne remind you of the other
day?.. Spring weather?.. Sunlight?... A ***HAM SANDWICH***??? :-)
Terry Cross
That was poetry, Emma. It was not "reminding."
TCross
Mary Hogan
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
fact-c...@hotmail.com
=======
Sharavi has already said that the Bible lied when it said that Israel
destroyed Jericho in Joshua 6:21.
Why isn't Ephraim screaming that Sharavi is a "fake Jew"?
After all, I only criticize "Oral Torah".
But Sharavi is criticizing "Written Torah".
----------begin quote----------
Thread: Was Jesus Merciful?
From: dshar...@gmail.com - view profile
Date: Wed, Jun 7 2006 1:00 pm
Email: dshar...@gmail.com
Groups: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.israel, alt.messianic,
alt.bible
...
You don't care for fact, either, as evidenced by the snippet
from Joshua referencing the suppositious destruction of Jericho. In
fact, the archaeological record shows that the Israelites could not
possibly have destroyed Jericho, as it had been a ruin for centuries by
the time Israel is first recorded as resident in Canaan.
...
----------begin quote----------
Thread: "God's Own Blood"?
From: dshar...@gmail.com - view profile
Date: Wed, Jun 7 2006 8:15 pm
Email: dshar...@gmail.com
Groups: alt.messianic
...
the Israelites never destroyed "anything that was in the city" of
Jericho.
...
----------end quote----------
emmas...@yahoo.co.uk
Terry Cross wrote:
> > >
> > > Everything remonds you of everything. That is no comment on the world
> > > - that is just a short circuit in your cerebrum.
> > >
> >
> > Now Terry, what did Suzanne remind you of the other
> > day?.. Spring weather?.. Sunlight?... A ***HAM SANDWICH***??? :-)
>
> That was poetry, Emma. It was not "reminding."
>
That was not poetry, Terry. It was excruciating.
dsha...@hotmail.com
> Sharavi has already said that the Bible lied when it said that Israel
> destroyed Jericho in Joshua 6:21.
You lie again, you yapping little poodle. And you prove it with your
"quotes". I said there is no archaeological evidence for Joshua's
destruction of Jericho. That is a statement of archaeological fact. I
NEVER said "the Bible lied". That's YOUR fake contribution, ya ibn
sharmout.
> Why isn't Ephraim screaming that Sharavi is a "fake Jew"?
Hmmmm....because I'm not a fake Jew like you?
That, too, is archaeological fact; Israel was still in Egypt when
Jericho was destroyed.
Fact, however, is something alien to fart-checker.
Deborah
Cleo
"Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
news:11504063...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> Cleo, I thought you left this place for good.
I yielded to temptation and had to ask a question. But I am going back into
the shadows for a while longer. :)
Cleo
--
Cleo
news:oHkkg.112280$Ce1.94783@dukeread01...
>
> "Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
> news:11504063...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> > Cleo, I thought you left this place for good.
>
> I yielded to temptation and had to ask a question. But I am going back
into
> the shadows for a while longer. :)
>
> Cleo
Truely Mary, I visit ever so offen to see what is going on. I am just not
going to be an ever present poster. March was the last time I posted except
for today.
Mary Hogan
> news:11504063...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>> Cleo, I thought you left this place for good.
>
> I yielded to temptation and had to ask a question. But I am going back
> into
> the shadows for a while longer. :)
>
> Cleo
I'm glad to see that you are fine, Cleo.
Mary Hogan
> "Cleo" <Cl...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:oHkkg.112280$Ce1.94783@dukeread01...
>>
>> "Mary Hogan" <ho...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message
>> news:11504063...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>> > Cleo, I thought you left this place for good.
>>
>> I yielded to temptation and had to ask a question. But I am going back
> into
>> the shadows for a while longer. :)
>>
>> Cleo
>
> Truely Mary, I visit ever so offen to see what is going on. I am just not
> going to be an ever present poster. March was the last time I posted
> except
> for today.
>
> Cleo
I personally love ya, Cleo unless you turn into a Missionary.
Mordecai!
Cleo wrote:
>
> >
> > This doesn't seem like you, Cleo. You are usually
> > so friendly and nice to everyone.
>
> Hi Emma, I was considering Moshe's reaction toward me. He treated me and my
> question like a gentelman. That is all. No Emma I am not like myself, have
> not been for some time. Phyically I feel lousy. Emotionally at times I am a
> wreck. I ventured in for just one question and now I will be silent and not
> put more stress on me than I can handle. Take care and your pastor did the
> right thing by leaving because she could not forgive-yet. She need to clear
> her mind and her heart and let G-d heal her soul. I wish her well, and she
> is still a good Christian, just a hurting one that needs our prayers not our
> cencorship.
>
This is not a nice place - filled with nice people.
I am sad about that - but alas, that is outside my power to change.
There are some beautiful people here - but many of the kind people have left -
and others are in battle armour - and need it to survive in this war zone
Given your physical condition - I strongly suggest you try elsewhere ... and the
group by PT sounds a better place and more suitable for your particular needs.
I am as sorry for your physical condition, but alas, I am powerless to help -
and all the words of "I am sorry" or "How terrible" or "Get well" does nothing
except make you concentrate on the very thing you wish to avoid.
I do wish I could do something. But neither words, nor any actions I can think
of can help.
Please email me if there is anything at all I can do.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
Cleo
news:4491DC9E...@internode.on.net...
Thank you for your kind words Mordecai. G-d is ever with me so thus I am
content. His love ever surrounds me and when things get too bad I can rest
in Him.
Cleo
Terry Cross
Excuciating poetry is a time-honored American tradition. Wot's yur
prahblem?
TCross
fla...@verizon.net
On 15-Jun-2006, "Cleo" <Cl...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> > Likewise, you should not assume that you know how I treat all followers
> > of Judaism based on how I rebuke the few bad apples who post here.
> >
> > - moshe
>
> Thanks Moshe for you candid answer. I had a question and you answered like
> a
> gentelman,
How is lying anything a gentleman would do?
Susan
Ben Cramer
<dsha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150407964.1...@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> fart-c...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Sharavi has already said that the Bible lied when it said that Israel
>> destroyed Jericho in Joshua 6:21.
>
> You lie again, you yapping little poodle. And you prove it with your
> "quotes". I said there is no archaeological evidence for Joshua's
> destruction of Jericho. That is a statement of archaeological fact. I
> NEVER said "the Bible lied". That's YOUR fake contribution, ya ibn
> sharmout.
>
>> Why isn't Ephraim screaming that Sharavi is a "fake Jew"?
>
> Hmmmm....because I'm not a fake Jew
Yes you are. You're not a darkie.
Padraic Brown
wrote:
>
>Padraic Brown wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 08:46:16 -0700, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"cindys"
>> >> You're more or less talking to yourself as everybody else
>> >> left the
>> >> playground a long time ago. Grow up.
>> >
>> >Cindy, apart from the levity some serious points were made.
>> >As usual you feel no need to respond in an intelligent and
>> >honest way. You give me no opportunity to respect you, as I
>> >might otherwise. Why don't you put away the distractions and
>> >personal attacks, and answer the serious questions. I think
>> >that's moshe's point and Terry's point.
>>
>> Did you ever stop to think that she might be responding that way to
>> Morris for a good reason? I haven't had anything but instructive
>> interaction with Cindy. I respect her, and though I disagree very
>> strongly with her understanding of Christianity, I don't think I've
>> ever been abusive of her religion or personally insulting towards her.
>> (Nor do I think she's been especially or overly abusive of
>> Christianity.) Whenever I have a question about Judaism, guess who
>> answers me?
>>
>> Respect is a two way road, Randy. Judaism get precious little respect
>> around here, and I can see why Jews might respond that way.
>
>No respect for Jews in SCJ? How strange! They should do a little
>houscleaning, then.
>
>Or do you mean Jews get no respect when they come into alt.messianic,
>call it "alt.messy," and invent filth about Jesus? If that is your
>statement, you are certainly correct to be outraged - I guess. Jews
>should be respected wherever they go, regardless of whom they tred on,
>and regardless of what they defile. I shall order up a new bag or rose
>petals for Cindy's next visit to throw at her feet.
All those who hunger for and follow after God need to reflect outward
the love of God that is within them. Minor doctrinal and creedal
differences oughtn't stand in the way.
Invented filth -- whether it's Cindy's or Randy's or mine or yours --
obscures the respect we should be showing each other. This doesn't
mean we give people a free pass just because they are a certain group
-- if they behave badly, they should be called on it. Chistianity
makes it an article of faith that we (Christians) should be above such
natural pettiness.
Padraic.
>
>TCross
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Linda Lee
Padraic,
Some on here seem to hate each other personally. Their responses are
simply character assassinations and provide no evidence to support
their assertions, no documentation to prove their contentions that
others are wrong, and prove nothing to most people reading it except
that they're small-minded and apparently ignorant of the Scriptures,
although loyal to their faith, which they don't seem to understand and
can't explain.
Since they don't actually know each other, it can't really be personal,
but must be an outlet for internalized hatred or bigotry. And the ones
screaming "bigot!" the most seem the most bigoted themselves.
It's so boring. Like the Jerry Springer show on Usenet. What a waste.
Linda Lee
I'd like to see someone of the Jewish faith explain to me why Judaism
is better than Christianity and by Christianity I don't mean Paul's and
Luke's writings, which contradict the apostles' writings at times - I
mean the writings of the apostles, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark, James,
and Jude and their presentation of the Messiah's words concerning the
Hebrew Scriptures.
I'm open to, and hungry for, spiritual growth and would even convert if
I thought the Rabbis understood their Scriptures. I don't see any
evidence that they do, and the Hebrew prophets complaints seem to
confirm that's the way it's always been.
I also *don't* mean that anyone can be saved 'by the blood' of the
Saviour, which smacks of the human sacrifice practiced in pagan
religions. I believe it is his teachings (3-1/2 years worth) that were
meant to give us the knowledge to obtain salvation, especially the
knowledge of the forgotten name of God.
I believe that this was the reason the Messiah incarnated in the flesh
- to teach the knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures necessary to
overcome hell and escape the death of the spirit.
The apostle Matthew states that the Messiah had fulfilled a prophecy of
old (Ps. 78:2) when he says in Matt. 13:34-35, "All these things
spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake
he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the
prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things
which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
Ps. 78:2 says, "I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark
sayings of old: Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have
told us."
The word translated as both of the words 'dark sayings' - Heb.
2420 - is defined a puzzle; hence, a trick, conundrum, sententious
maxim:--dark saying (sentence, speech), hard question, proverb, and
riddle.
The word translated 'old' - Heb. 6924 - in part means time
(antiquity), ancient (time), aforetime, before, old, past, and eternal.
Even though they and their fathers had heard the sayings since ancient
times, they were a puzzle to them.
The Messiah used the parables to convey an understanding of these
puzzling sayings that they had heard related since antiquity, but which
they could not understand without someone explaining their meaning by
relating a parable.
The parables were designed to teach on an unconscious level the 'dark
sayings' that men were unable to accept or understand with their
conscious minds. Because they were not able to understand the meaning
of these 'dark sayings', their meanings had remained concealed, and
in that sense, the sayings had been 'secreted' from them.
The word translated 'secret' as in "I will utter things which
have been kept secret from the foundation of the world" - Gk. 2928
- means in part - to conceal (properly by covering), and secret.
The word here translated 'foundation' - Heb. 2602 -
'katabole' - means "founding", "foundation", and
"conceive" and is "from 2598" ('kataballo' - above)
meaning "to throw down:--cast down, descend, fall (down)". The
meanings of these 'dark sayings' had been puzzling them since the
creation of the Earth as it is now.
So, anyone, please explain to me the superiority of depth of knowledge
if I were to convert to Judaism. It's the reason I came on
alt.messianic - to learn things about the Scriptures that I might not
know. So far I've heard very little in four or five months. When I ask
to have an understanding presented to me of the basic theme of Judaism,
I get only silence, which leads me to believe no one here understands
it.
Padraic Brown
wrote:
Sad, but instructive. You have to wonder how it is people can justify
such negative emotion with religions that profess love for neighbour
and a God who embodies love.
>Their responses are
>simply character assassinations and provide no evidence to support
>their assertions, no documentation to prove their contentions that
>others are wrong, and prove nothing to most people reading it except
>that they're small-minded and apparently ignorant of the Scriptures,
>although loyal to their faith, which they don't seem to understand and
>can't explain.
We also have to keep in mind that faith really isn't a matter for
proof, the way a law case or a scientific theory is. A faith is what
people say (i.e., believe) it is. Documentation and evidence are all
relative.
>Since they don't actually know each other, it can't really be personal,
>but must be an outlet for internalized hatred or bigotry. And the ones
>screaming "bigot!" the most seem the most bigoted themselves.
>
>It's so boring. Like the Jerry Springer show on Usenet. What a waste.
There's really a lot of interesting stuff going on in here, though!
Padraic.