God studies Torah and wears Tefillin?
moshe
The first claim is blasphemous because it implies that Torah knows
more than God, and that God must actually learn from Torah.
The second claim is blasphemous, especially because of what is
claimed is inside the Tefillin worn by God:
Whereas man wears Tefillin containing words that glorify God,
God wears Tefillin containing words that glorify Israel.
Implying that God is the god of Israel,
and that Israel is the god of God.
------------------begin quote-------------
The Gemara in Tractate Avodah Zorah tells us "During the first three
hours of the day, G-d studies Torah and during the second three hours
of the day, He sits in Judgment of the world.
- quoted from
http://www.yadavraham.org/html/bereishis2003.html
------------------begin quote-------------
"Each day Hashem studies Torah for three hours."[Talmud Avodah Zarah
3b]
If Hashem is the one who gave us the Torah, and He learns it three
hours a day, how much more so do we who have received it from Him have
to study the Torah?
- quoted from
http://torahs.ilovetorah.com/
------------------begin quote-------------
(b) The Beraisa describes Hashem's daily schedule.
During ... the first three hours of the day, He studies Torah
- quoted from
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/azarah/reviewa/az-ra-03.htm
------------------begin quote-------------
There are twelve hours in a day, three hours of which the Holy One,
blessed be He, is occupied with the Torah.
- quoted from Avodah Zarah 3b of Talmud, aka Chapter 1 of Avodah
Zarah, at
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t09/zar03.htm
------------------begin quote-------------
Could it be that performing mitzvot (the halachah) is how God spends
His day, much like the Talmudic legend claims that God studies Talmud
continuously? I find this idea appealing because by contemplating each
and every mitzvah or each and every problem we face daily, we have
some spiritual guidelines to follow.
- quoted from
http://www.jewishealing.com/questions_halachah.html
------------------begin quote-------------
This should not surprise those familiar with the Talmud that says that
G-d "wears" tefillin (Brochos 6a). In fact, the Talmud states that
when Moshe asked G-d, "Let me have a vision of Your Glory ..." (Shemos
33:18), G-d showed Moshe His tefillin knot (Brochos 7a). To see more
than this was impossible, as G-d told him, "Because no man can see My
face and live." However, the tefillin knot, which is worn on the back
of the head, was still an exceptionally high level of spiritual
revelation of the light of G-d.
- quoted from
http://www.judaism.org/learning/perceptions/5758/vaeschanan.html
------------------begin quote-------------
"Putting on tefillin is such a good idea, even G-d does it!"
[snip]
And, yes, the Talmud indeed teaches us that G-d wears tefillin.
- quoted from
http://www.hasofer.com/page.pl?p=halacha
------------------begin quote-------------
The Babylonian Talmud, on Berakhot 6a, explains that like us, God
wears tefillin. Where our tefillin hold the words Shema Yisrael –
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" – God's tefillin
are home to a different verse, Umik'amkha Yisrael – "Who is like your
people Israel, a singular nation in the land."
- quoted from http://www.hillel.org/Hillel/NewHille.nsf/0/4A05EA484458935185256E90005993B4?OpenDocument
------------------begin quote-------------
Brachot 6a-7a:
R. Abin son of R. Ada in the name of R. Isaac says [further]: How do
you know that the Holy One, blessed be He, puts on tefillin?
For it is said: The Lord has sworn by His right hand, and by the arm
of His strength.
‘By His right hand': this is the Torah; for it is said: At His right
hand was a fiery law unto them.
‘And by the arm of his strength:' this is the tefillin; as it is said:
The Lord will give strength unto His people."
And how do you know that the tefillin are a strength to Israel?
For it is written: And all the peoples of the earth shall see that the
name of the Lord is called upon you, and they shall be afraid of you,
and it has been taught: R. Eliezer the Great says: This refers to the
tefillin of the head.
R. Nahman b. Isaac said to R. Hiyya b. Abin: What is written in the
tefillin of the Lord of the Universe?
He replied to him:"And who is like your people Israel, a nation one in
the earth."
Does, then, the Holy One, blessed be He, sing the praises of Israel?
Yes, for it is written: You have affirmed the Lord this day . . . and
the Lord has affirmed you this day.
The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Israel: You have made me a unique
entity in the world, and I shall make you a unique entity in the
world.
You have made me a unique entity in the world,' as it is said: Hear, O
Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
‘And I shall make you a unique entity in the world,' as it is said:
And who is like Your people Israel, a nation one in the earth.
R. Aha b. Raba said to R. Ashi: This accounts for one case (of God's
tefillin), what about the other cases?
He replied to him: [They contain the following verses]: For what great
nation is there, etc.; And what great nation is there, etc.; Happy are
you, O Israel, etc.; Or has God assayed, etc.; and To make you high
above all nations.
If so, there would be too many cases?
Hence [you must say]: For what great nation is there, and And what
great nation is there, which are similar, are in one case; Happy are
you, O Israel, and Who is like your people, in one case; Or has God
assayed, in one case; and To make you high, in one case.
"And I will take away My hand, and you will see My back." R. Hama b.
Bizana said in the name of R. Simon the Pious: This teaches us that
the Holy One, blessed be He, showed Moses the knot of the tefillin.
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=833
------------------begin quote-------------
Actually, let's begin with who wears a tallit. First, God wears a
tallit, and since we are in God's image, we pay close attention to
what God wears.
- quoted from
http://scheinerman.net/judaism/tallit/drucker.html
--------------------------------------------------
Ben Mikra
: Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
*Stick to the Tanach and you won't have to be so concerned with what the
Talmud says.
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Patricia Heil
might be a little bit human.
Susan Cohen
"moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40f21e75.0406...@posting.google.com...
> Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
The god you worship did, if he ever existed.
And that's what really gets your goat, too!
Susan
TonyaK9
Reform Jews find such "interpretations" laughable, to say the least, and we
also find both you and your primitive cult laughable and obnoxious.
Tell us, Moshe, do you believe in Trinity?
How does that jive with the monotheism - the corner stone of the OT?
And by the way, if you don't believe in Trinity, how is it that you call
your god to be a son of G-d?
Your cult is beyond a joke!
TK9
Jan Pompe
> "moshe" wrote
> : Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
> *Stick to the Tanach and you won't have to be so concerned with what the
> Talmud says.
It's no problem Ben God gives a good exampmle that is what this Midrash
about. We have justification in Torah that he gives us good example he
did not provide manna on Shabbat and he waited a week for the period of
Miriams (after her lashon hara against Moses) cleansing before moving on.
We have a positive commandment is to study Torah.
Jan Pompe
Some reform Jews consider themsleves above the Law.
don't spam me]@slater.net Joe Slater
>Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
>
>The first claim is blasphemous because it implies that Torah knows
>more than God, and that God must actually learn from Torah.
>
>The second claim is blasphemous, especially because of what is
>claimed is inside the Tefillin worn by God:
You're a Christian. How can you find either statement blasphemous?
It's fundamental to your faith that Jesus did both of these.
jds
TonyaK9
"Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
news:10ccluo...@news.supernews.com...
Our Lord gave us brain to use it - therefore His Torah and His Law of Common
Sense is what we look for, not the ridiculous interpretations, which YOU
cannot defend even now as we speak.
Some of the Ultra seem to be intentionally keeping themselves below His
Laws, relying on rabbis instead...
TK9
LionOfJudah
Moshe, you are a stupid cunt.
Instead of focusing on trivial little shit like the above, you should be far
more concerned with the very serious and HARMFUL commands which came from
the God of Israel such as killing for a supposed 'holy' day called the
Sabbath.
But you are just every bit the stupid fucking monkey as those you are
preaching to.
Jan Pompe
> "Jan Pompe" <janp@!!dx.com.au> wrote in message
> news:10ccluo...@news.supernews.com...
>
>>TonyaK9 wrote:
>>
>>>"moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:40f21e75.0406...@posting.google.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
>>>
>>>
>>>Reform Jews find such "interpretations" laughable, to say the least, and
>
> we
>
>>>also find both you and your primitive cult laughable and obnoxious.
>>>Tell us, Moshe, do you believe in Trinity?
>>>How does that jive with the monotheism - the corner stone of the OT?
>>>And by the way, if you don't believe in Trinity, how is it that you call
>>>your god to be a son of G-d?
>>>
>>>Your cult is beyond a joke!
>>>
>>>TK9
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Some reform Jews consider themsleves above the Law.
>
>
> Our Lord gave us brain to use it - therefore His Torah and His Law of Common
> Sense is what we look for, not the ridiculous interpretations, which YOU
> cannot defend even now as we speak.
That's right and the Almighty himself did not keep himself above the Law
if you used that brain you would know this.
Jan Pompe
> "moshe" <joes...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40f21e75.0406...@posting.google.com...
>
>>Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
>
>
> Moshe, you are a stupid cunt.
>
You should concentrate on going home to your mother and tell her you
need a clip around the ear.
TonyaK9
He IS the Law.
"Keep" is but a word, useless in this case...
TK9
Jan Pompe
Is that how you work around it fallcies of equivocation?
Brilliant logic.
TonyaK9
Riain Barton
"LionOfJudah" <thepupp...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:m8txc.1344$JF6...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Bill_The_Butcher
news:TLvxc.26573$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>> >
>>
>> Is that how you work around it fallcies of equivocation?
>>
>> Brilliant logic.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
Enjoy it, K9. It will probably be the only time someone uses those two
words to describe your emotion-based method of "reasoning", even in jest.
--
"The Arabs cannot accept the existence of Israel. Those who accept it are
not normal. The best solution for the [Palestinian] Arabs in Israel is to
go and live in the Arab states." - David Ben-Gurion
vince garcia
But you do find the notion ridiculous, I assume. God does NOT need to
study torah, right?
cindys
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:40C6F8...@ix.netcom.com...
God wrote the torah! The whole thing is metaphorical. Only Morris wants to
pretend it's intended to be taken literally.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
don't spam me]@slater.net Joe Slater
>> >Talmud says that God studies Torah and that God wears Tefillin.
>Joe Slater wrote:
>> You're a Christian. How can you find either statement blasphemous?
>> It's fundamental to your faith that Jesus did both of these.
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:42:18 GMT, vince garcia
<vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>But you do find the notion ridiculous, I assume. God does NOT need to
>study torah, right?
And he doesn't have an arm or a right hand, either. These are all
anthropomorpic expressions. The passage in the Talmud (Berachot 6a)
that talks about G-d studying Torah and tefillin is actually applying
an exegesis to a passage (Isaiah 62:8) talking about G-d's hand and
arm. But I don't know how literally the passage is meant; I suspect
not very.
The passage seems to be an excuse to identify passages which describe
G-d's relationship with the Jews in terms which are comparable to the
passages (describing the Jews' relationship with G-d) which are found
in Tefillin. So if we have an excuse to say that G-d has Tefillin,
then we can identify all these lovely passages in the Bible.
jds
TonyaK9
"Bill_The_Butcher" <stand_up_f...@jdlxxxx.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9503249F11844st...@130.81.64.196...
> "TonyaK9" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in
> news:TLvxc.26573$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Is that how you work around it fallcies of equivocation?
> >>
> >> Brilliant logic.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
>
> Enjoy it, K9. It will probably be the only time someone uses those two
> words to describe your emotion-based method of "reasoning", even in jest.
You are a nice man as well, Bill.
TK9
vince garcia
You know, that's what i was thinking (or at least hoping). I could see
someone making an off the cuff metaphoric remark exactly like that as a
parable to encourage study. I think that makes good sense.
Problem is, it's sometimes hard to know what IS meant to be taken
literally and what is not. My rebbe, Moshe Shulman, for instance,
affirms he believes two rabbis conjured up a cow by invoking the
Ineffable Name. Well...that passage I suupose could easily be seen as a
metaphor like this, but then I see a learned rabbi accepting it as
historic, so it leaves me a bit...confused
cockroach
[snip}
> My rebbe, Moshe Shulman, for instance,
i didnt no
:-)
don't spam me]@slater.net Joe Slater
>> The whole thing is metaphorical.
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:37:21 GMT, vince garcia
<vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>You know, that's what i was thinking (or at least hoping). I could see
>someone making an off the cuff metaphoric remark exactly like that as a
>parable to encourage study. I think that makes good sense.
Perhaps the basis for this sort of anthropomorphism is that we are
supposed to "walk in the ways of G-d". So if we say that G-d does
something, we're implying that it's supremely important that we do it.
Also, I guess, if it's important that we do something then there's
room for an exegesis which describes G-d doing something similar.
Incidentally, you may not have realised that scholars wore Tefilin all
day at the time this exegesis was written. They would take them off to
sleep and to perform bodily functions, but if they were studying (and
perhaps doing other "clean" activities) they would wear them. Nowadays
we only wear them during morning prayers. So depicting G-d as wearing
Tefillin is also a way of depicting him as being like one of those
refined scholars who is punctilious about not doing anything
inconsistent with wearing tefillin - idle speech, snoozing, passing
gas and so forth; it's like the prayers and Biblical passages
depicting G-d as sitting on a throne. Does G-d sit on a literal
throne? No, but describing him in this reminds us of kings and rulers
who sit on thrones.
>Problem is, it's sometimes hard to know what IS meant to be taken
>literally and what is not. My rebbe, Moshe Shulman, for instance,
>affirms he believes two rabbis conjured up a cow by invoking the
>Ineffable Name. Well...that passage I suupose could easily be seen as a
>metaphor like this, but then I see a learned rabbi accepting it as
>historic, so it leaves me a bit...confused
The Christian scriptures say similar things about Jesus.
If that passage is meant metaphorically then I can't see what the
metaphor is supposed to be.
jds
vince garcia
outstanding point. Thanx
>
> >Problem is, it's sometimes hard to know what IS meant to be taken
> >literally and what is not. My rebbe, Moshe Shulman, for instance,
> >affirms he believes two rabbis conjured up a cow by invoking the
> >Ineffable Name. Well...that passage I suupose could easily be seen as a
> >metaphor like this, but then I see a learned rabbi accepting it as
> >historic, so it leaves me a bit...confused
>
> The Christian scriptures say similar things about Jesus.
those things were true tho :)
>
> If that passage is meant metaphorically then I can't see what the
> metaphor is supposed to be.
>
> jds
I think i agree.
cindys
"Joe Slater" <joe[please don't spam me]@slater.net> wrote in message
news:mcuhc09eg7aljpgaj...@4ax.com...
> >cindys wrote:
> >> The whole thing is metaphorical.
>
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:37:21 GMT, vince garcia
> <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >You know, that's what i was thinking (or at least hoping). I could see
> >someone making an off the cuff metaphoric remark exactly like that as a
> >parable to encourage study. I think that makes good sense.
>
> Perhaps the basis for this sort of anthropomorphism is that we are
> supposed to "walk in the ways of G-d". So if we say that G-d does
> something, we're implying that it's supremely important that we do it.
> Also, I guess, if it's important that we do something then there's
> room for an exegesis which describes G-d doing something similar.
There are so many things I am determined to do...when I get around to them,
like check the primary source material for this metaphor regarding God
wearing tefillin (and davening also BTW). The description/discussion be
found in the first perek of Berachos (along with commentary). I believe it
follows the section on the 4 watches where the gemara describes that for
everything on earth, there is something which corresponds to it in the
heavens. IIRC, the gemara says that there is a beis mikdash (temple) in the
heavens. At certain moments during the day, the heavens open so to speak,
and God is more receptive to our prayers during those times. One of these
times is chatzos (halachic midnight). This is why a wind would blow every
night at chatzos and cause King David's harp to play, and this would wake
him up and he would study torah. Since it has been over 2 years since I
learned this, the details are very fuzzy. And before *moshe* starts saying
how *ridiculous* all of this is, for the record, this is aggadata and is NOT
intended to be taken literally.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
>