Disenchanted with Self-Realization Fellowhip
Disenchanted
the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
Disenchanted
nojdw
Oh-kay then-----leave!
How do you expect the Master's to help you with that kind of attitude??
nojdw © ™ ®
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Raymond Karczewski
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:32:58 GMT, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted>
wrote:
d: >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't
stand the way the organization is going. I received Kriya years
ago but now I hear it isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not
effective like the original Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri
Mahasaya. I never did like organizations, but put up with the
churchiness of SRF because of Kriya. But I can't stand its
"don't worry, be a smile millionaire and everything will be
Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to India and look
for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
Disenchanted
rk: Your title and name says it all, doesn't it?
rk: Dis-enchanted!
rk: Dis-illusioned!
rk: Spell is broken?
rk: The question is -- are you WAKING UP from your long hypnotic
sleep?
rk: Or are you looking for a more comfortable PLACE to SLEEP?
rk: Are you still intent upon PIDDLING your life away while
shopping around for the "idea" of spirituality?
rk: What can be said of one who would travel to the ends of the
earth to find that which is already within?
rk: Misdirected? Ignorant? Blind?
rk: Wipe that phony smile off your face and learn to love the
Mirror Of Truth.
rk: From this moment henceforward, NEVER TELL ANOTHER LIE.
rk: Then watch what happens in the world which had held such a
death grip upon the previously ENCHANTED -- now DISENCHANTED.
rk: You want SPIRITUALITY? That's all there is to it!
rk: NOW THERE'S YOUR MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!
Ray Karczewski
****************************************
Let man not Fall for a New World Order.
Let mankind Rise to a New World Consciousness!
========================================
Dialogues With A Christ - The Wisdom of Divine Anarchy
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb983743
Raymond Karczewski http://www.arkenterprises.com
****************************************
Steven Lightfoot
>After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the way
>the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
>organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
>But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
>India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
>Disenchanted
Swami Satyeswarananda Giri
The Sanskrit Classics
P.O. Box 5368
San Diego, Ca., 92105
He doesn't have a group structure, (they asked him to lead up SRF
Worldwide--he refused). If you have some karmic attachment with
him, I'm sure everything will work out okay. :-)
Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form.
Life is Death, Death is life.
Where do you think you are hidden from me?
Where do you think we are not touching?
Are we not always touching the beginning and the end?
Are we not now beyond? Does breath need words?
Douglas F Couch
Disenchanted wrote:
> After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving.
--
Douglas F. Couch
http://ompage.net
Overland Park, KS
baru...@my-deja.com
py dev too
I feel you are just being flippant. The man is just stating
what is in his heart. I hear him as someone who has tried
to be loyal to the SRF, but is wavering in his continuing
loyalty, due to the abundance of these other "competing"
kriya schools that have apparently succeeded in convincing
him that SRF's kriya is not the same one as the one that
was given by the Babaji, Lahiri, Yukteswar lineage.
Personally, I have also wondered the same. However, for me
I will continue to practice the kriya I was given by SRF;
it is the organization that Master started.
SRF, the organization, was left by Yogananda nearly 50
years ago. They say, never really providing the
documentation, that the Master himself left the blueprint
for the future of the organization in the "ether," and that
Babaji has already selected all of the future presidents of
the organization, and that they, the future presidents, are
all God-realized. But,again, as a member, I have to take
those assertions on faith; since they, the organization,
provide no tangible documentation.
I've never encountered in Yogananda's writings any
reference to any of the above assertions. Perhaps you have
and can therefore provide me with those citations for my
perusal.
SRF, the organization, also has an expanding evolution of
the office of president. When Rajarsi was president, there
wasn't any mention of his being Yogananda's successor; or
his channel. The position was seen as simply the head of
the organization. It wasn't until the later years, under
Daya Mata, that the organization began to present her, and
hence the office, as identical with Yogananda. Currently,
the atmosphere at the organization is one in which the
president makes a decision which is seen to be infalliable
because the president is God-realized, in complete
attunement with Yogananda,and consequently, that decision
is seen by the organization and the layity as to be the
same as Yogananda. There is no separation.
And because of that, Sister Daya has become Daya Mata, then
Reverend Mother Daya Mata, and then, Sangha Mata Sri Daya
Mata. Even Master only changed his title once, and that was
because his Master had changed it for him!
So currently there is an unwritten assumption that Sri Daya
Mata is infallible. Whatever she decides is straight from
God and Master. But doesn't this preclude the realization
that Master doesn't need an intermediary? For isn't Cosmic
Consciousness, as we all believe our Guruji to have
attained, eternal? And if that is true, why does he need a
successor. Or more bizarre, a "channel."
So, you have decided, for yourself, that SRF is your
organization. I too share that same faith. But, as a matter
of compassion and living that faith, shouldn't we offer
this brother any type of aid we can muster to help him in
his hour of doubt?
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
nojdw
My intuition.
nojdw © ™ ®
Paramahansa Yogananda
Loyalty to the Guru and his work
"It is the duty of the guru-preceptor and the disciple to be loyal each
other, not only in one life, but for many lives if these are necessary
to reach God. Those who are one hundred percent loyal to a guru can be
sure of ultimate liberation and ascension. One may have many teachers,
but only one guru, who remains as one's guru even in many different
lives, until the disciple reaches the final goal of emancipation in
God. You must remember this, once that relationship is formed. It is
much easier to reach God through the link of true masters with whom you
are connected as a member of the Self-Realization Fellowship."
"Many will urge that you join other societies and religions. If you
succumb to the temptation of curiosity, you will get confused, and due
to disloyalty to the specific messenger and guru-preceptor sent to you
by God's decree, you will lose wisdom and may not ascend or be
liberated for one or many lives. To dishonor the messenger of God sent
by Him in response to the devotee's prayer call, is to be disrespectful
of God. That is why Jesus said to Peter, "O ye of little faith,
wherefore didst thou doubt?" Remember, you have been told that Jesus
was Eliseus before and his guru-preceptor was Elijah. Then later
Eliseus, through a succession of incarnations, was born as Jesus, and
Elijah was born as John the Baptist. That is why Jesus asked John to
anoint him, saying, "This is the way of all righteousness." That is,
all righteousness, or the right way of finding liberation and God, lies
in following the teachings and discipline of a true guru-preceptor."
"Though you should love all people and respect all religions, still
your own path lies through Self-Realization and it's Masters. You were
selected and ordained to find liberation and ascension through Jesus,
Babaji, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri Yukteswarji and Paramahansa Yogananda,
your Guru-Preceptor. The title is a much higher title that "swami,"
which signifies one who is trying to master his Self or one who has
succeeded in doing so. The title "Paramahansa" signifies the Royal
Divine Swan swimming in the sea of Spirit, one who is free from all
limiting desires, or new desires and karma which might keep him tied to
the world. A "Paramahansa" lives in the world, but is not of the world,
and knows God as His sole object of desire."
"All who have actually accomplished the goals of the Seven Steps can
act as preceptors to others, but only by years of merging with truth
can they ultimately attain the paramahansa state, From that state on,
God directly controls the life of the devotee."
Paramahansa Yogananda:
"As I love you so, so I am writing this -As a son shuld be loyal to his
father so a disciple to his guru in every way. I never question your
love and loyalty-I feel you nearer and nearer to me- that is why I
venture to ask you to follow;
1) 100 percent Self-Realization and the living link of the gurus, and
not divert your mind to any other teachings or work. Make Praecepta
(SRF Lessons) your whole life with Kriya Yoga.
2) Passing out literature of other teachings confuses and unsettles the
minds of new and even old students. So I shall be happy if you
concentrate minds of students only in SRF.
3) All meetings strictly should be around SRF and practice meditation.
If the above rules are followed you will find the great gurus showering
blessings on you and you will feel a living connection with the living
link of gurus"
An excerpt from a handwritten letter from Paramahansa Yogananda to a
disciple, 1947. It was published in a letter that SRF put out in
November, 1995, in response to a letter circulated by Ananda making
various accusations against SRF. A readable photocopy of the letter is
also included.
"Your letter's assuring words of devotion and loyalty to this Cause and
the Masters deeply touched me. Whole we must pay homage and give all
due respect to all religions and all religious followers, still, we
must remember our supreme loyalty and devotion must be one-pointed-
given to one path only. You have given that already to Self-Realization
Fellowship and to guru. One should become firmly grounded in the
teachings of his choice before studying the merits of other teachings,
else he will become confused and lose sight of his goal, which is not
theoligical knowledge, but actual God-union"
An excerpt from a typed and signed letter from Paramahansa Yogananda to
a disciple, 1947. It was published in a letter that SRF put out in
November, 1995, in response to a written and verbal attacks and
accusations against SRF from Ananda.
"The Kriya technique will be the foundation, the continuosly expanding
base of your own Self-realization, So you must be true to yourself and
to the Gurus of Self-Realization-Fellowship by faithful practice of the
liberating soul-science. SRF is resolved to show you that Cosmic
Consciousness is attainable in one lifetime if you properly and
continously cooperate in this divine endeavor."
On July 8, 1948, shortly after his great samadhi, he wrote the
following words to the leader of the SRF center in Mexico City:
"After the great visitation of Divine Mother I see more clearly how She
wants this work to be directed and therefore I write this letter....we
must remember that in the second or third generation of our work
everything must be centralized here at Headquarters, otherwise
divisions will begin and our work will fall apart. You and those with
me now are of the first generation, and I do not worry about you for
you have had contact with me and know how the work should be spread,
but those who follow after us will make mistakes unless all the work is
centralized under one department- under the Mother Center."
py dev too
Thank you very much for taking the time to re-post those
quotes from various writings of the Master.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I will state it
simply. Is SRF, the organization, infallible? Is the
president infallible? Is the president the successor to the
guru?
I've answered those questions to my own satisfaction. I
continue to be a loyal devotee to my guru, and a member of
SRF. But, I don't mind saying, that that relationship is
private, and is therefore not a topic I will discuss on
this forum.
There has been an progressive evolution of the presidency.
I find that to be unfortunate. There is only one guru for
those who take the kriya diksha of Paramahansa Yogananda
via SRF, and, through him, his lineage.
Today, we find that our Guru is no longer in the frame we
knew as Yogananda. Therefore new, and also many older
devotees look to his remaining direct disciples with the
type of ardor and devotion that, were he in his body, would
naturally be given to him. In that dynamic lies the rub.
For Yogananda never counseled his future disciples to look
to any of the future presidents of SRF as successors to
him. The SRF claims he carefully trained them for the
ardous task of establishing SRF as a world organization.
And they seem to be faithfully undertaking that task as we
speak.
But I will never confuse the Master with the president. Or
the organization for the Master. Or a direct-disciple for
the Master; even though all of the ones I've met, including
Daya Mata, Durga Mata, Uma Mata, Mukti Mata, Swami
Ananadamoy, Swami Bhatkananda all shine with the
unmistakeable glow of deep realization.
That's my only point. Too much emphasis upon the office of
the president leads, as we can see in the example of the
Catholic church, to a concentration of power that, I'm sure
you'll agree, our Guru never advocated.
His counsel remains: practice the teachings, love the Lord,
serve all. And as you know, my brother, this is only
possible through each disciple's deep attunement with the
undying, omniscient, ever-loving Guru, alone.
He promises us that his sole desire and purpose is to give
unto us the same. Therein lies our soul's satisfaction!
nojdw
In article <184874d0...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com>,
py dev too <williammcc...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi no,
>
> Thank you very much for taking the time to re-post those
> quotes from various writings of the Master.
>
> I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I will state it
> simply. Is SRF, the organization, infallible? Is the
> president infallible? Is the president the successor to the
> guru?
1. Is SRF, the organization, infallible?
No. Who implied they were? That is the key.
2. Is the president infallible?
No. Who implied the were? Again, that is the key.
3. Is the president the successor to the Guru?
"There will always be at the head of this organization men and women
of realization. They are already known to God and the Gurus. They shall
serve as my spiritual successors and representitives in all spiritual
and organizational matters."
Paramahansa Yogananda
"Those who will succeed me as representitive spiritual head of this
work are already chosen by God and the Gurus..."
Paramahansa Yogananda
>
> I've answered those questions to my own satisfaction. I
> continue to be a loyal devotee to my guru, and a member of
> SRF. But, I don't mind saying, that that relationship is
> private, and is therefore not a topic I will discuss on
> this forum.
>
> There has been an progressive evolution of the presidency.
> I find that to be unfortunate. There is only one guru for
> those who take the kriya diksha of Paramahansa Yogananda
> via SRF, and, through him, his lineage.
>
> Today, we find that our Guru is no longer in the frame we
> knew as Yogananda. Therefore new, and also many older
> devotees look to his remaining direct disciples with the
> type of ardor and devotion that, were he in his body, would
> naturally be given to him. In that dynamic lies the rub.
Personally, I, and I'll bet the majority of the devotees, still
have the Master in the original frame of baptism.
There will always be those that worship the personality.
That is not the fault of the direct disciples nor due to
shameless self-promotion.
The "rub" is ego attachment----self-induced.
>
> For Yogananda never counseled his future disciples to look
> to any of the future presidents of SRF as successors to
> him. The SRF claims he carefully trained them for the
> ardous task of establishing SRF as a world organization.
> And they seem to be faithfully undertaking that task as we
> speak.
>
> But I will never confuse the Master with the president. Or
> the organization for the Master. Or a direct-disciple for
> the Master; even though all of the ones I've met, including
> Daya Mata, Durga Mata, Uma Mata, Mukti Mata, Swami
> Ananadamoy, Swami Bhatkananda all shine with the
> unmistakeable glow of deep realization.
The confusion lies with the unnecessarily confused.
> That's my only point. Too much emphasis upon the office of
> the president leads, as we can see in the example of the
> Catholic church, to a concentration of power that, I'm sure
> you'll agree, our Guru never advocated.
Who is placing that emphasis, William?
> His counsel remains: practice the teachings, love the Lord,
> serve all. And as you know, my brother, this is only
> possible through each disciple's deep attunement with the
> undying, omniscient, ever-loving Guru, alone.
Yes William, that, indeed, is it!
> He promises us that his sole desire and purpose is to give
> unto us the same. Therein lies our soul's satisfaction!
Yes!
nojdw © ™ ®
Steven M. Stoltz
baru...@my-deja.com wrote:
> For more information on the original Kriya yoga tradition, go to
> www.sanskritc.com.
Perhaps you meant to say, "*AN* original Kriya yoga tradition".
In the future, proper placement of the word "the" may help you avoid
committing further errors of religious sectarianism and misrepresenting
the universality of the beloved Mahavatar Babaji.
Stoltz
Fred Hageman
>After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the way
>the organization is going.
Ok, what way is the organization going?
>I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
It might be good to think about where you heard this from. Are they
saying they have the "real" kriya, the kriya that Babaji specifically
sent Yogananda to the west to disseminate?
Ever wonder why the designated source to bring kriya to the West (and
world at large) would change it, and yet the others who weren't chosen
to do so would want to be saying that what they are offering is
somehow the "real" kriya? It's never made much sense to me.
>I never did like
>organizations,
neither did Yogananda. But without them, a vital function is not
served. But you may want that function. Fine. It has nothing to do
with your and the guru. You are free to skip all the organizational
stuff and still go on with your sadhana. Many do.
>but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
What do you mean by the "churciness" of SRF? They've got the temples
and the meditation groups, yes, but neither are prerequisite to the
practice of kriya.
>But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
This isn't a fair, or accurate, portrayal of where they (or Yogananda)
are coming from.
>Maybe I should go to
>India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
You sound like you are going through a tough time. But think about
what you are saying here.
What would going to India do for you? You have a guru, Yogananda. You
made that connection when you were intitiated, as did Yogananda. (I am
assuming you were intitiated through either the lessons or at a kriya
initiaiton, since you have been in SRF for years.)
What is it you are feeling lacking from this guru-disciple
relationship that you would seek for elsewhere? The g-d relationship
isn't a casual situation, nor something you toss off when things are
difficult in your life in search of another. It's a sacred bond over
lifetimes, till you are free. Yogananda was clear and consistent on
this point always.
Think about what you are intimating here. And remember what he said
when someone asked him what the chief principle of the path was:
"loyalty is the highest law."
He wasn't one to say things idly. Please think about what you are
saying here. If you are disenchanted with SRF as you see it, fine. But
you aren't heholden to follow the organization. You can disassociate
with all SRF stuff in the day to day, with their blessings, but
looking for another guru isn't the answer.
Fred
Steven M. Stoltz
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
way
> the organization is going.
Perhaps you are placing the bulk of your attention EXTERNALLY where it
shouldn't be - such as on a vague limited mental concept of an
organization. I once heard an SRF monastic say, that in order to
cultivate true devotion to God, it is important to have the right
mental picture of what God is. It seems to me as if you would get
better results if you shifted your focus INTERNALLY towards a more
personal relationship/concept with/of God and your guru-dsciple
relationship with the Masters.
I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
> isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
There again, you are placing your attention on what others say. In the
end, its just between you and God, and nothing anyone else says or does
can change that.
It is clear that you are unhappy - but it is you that has to change,
and only you can do that. An organization cannot do that for you, nor
can the empty promises of other people. Once you have a taste of what
it means to know where you stand with God personally, you will lead
your life by that - and you want give a crap about anything anyone else
says. Perhaps that is why Yogananda stated this in his autobiography:
"The life of an advanced Kriya yogi is influenced, not by effects of
past actions, but solely by directions from the soul."
I never did like
> organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
Kriya.
If you are putting up with something you don't like because of the
Kriya, its because that Kriya is doing something beneficial for you,
right ? Why can't you simply focus on that, and realize that that
aspect will continue to improve, and forget all the superfluous crap ?
Surely, the option to practice another form of Kriya - take
instructions from other Masters, etc. is always there, but - if your
focus doesn't change to the internal - you would always be plagued by
these same questions.
> But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
Some people - particularly Westerners with a formal approach to things,
need external support from an organization, and are benefitted by
hearing things like this. If this isn't for you - then simply retain
your own inward focus on the Masters .......
Maybe I should go to
> India and look for a guru there.
Perhaps you could also look within and talk to Yogananda there.
Fred Hageman
<williammcc...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>The man is just stating
>what is in his heart. I hear him as someone who has tried
>to be loyal to the SRF, but is wavering in his continuing
>loyalty, due to the abundance of these other "competing"
>kriya schools that have apparently succeeded in convincing
>him that SRF's kriya is not the same one as the one that
>was given by the Babaji, Lahiri, Yukteswar lineage.
Competition seems to be the key word here, and one that should shed
light on some folk's motivations. I've seen some of these arguments,
but I haven't seen anything credible. I guess I just figure that
Babaji knew what he was doing when he set the whole thing in motion.
>Personally, I have also wondered the same.
Why, exactly?
>However, for me
>I will continue to practice the kriya I was given by SRF;
>it is the organization that Master started.
Sounds like a good practice. What could Yogananda's motives for going
against Babaji's purpose be? He gave his all to serving SRF according
to the dictates of Babaji and Yukteswar. Why would he alter the
fundamental upon which everything else he did was based upon?
>SRF, the organization, was left by Yogananda nearly 50
>years ago. They say, never really providing the
>documentation, that the Master himself left the blueprint
>for the future of the organization in the "ether," and that
>Babaji has already selected all of the future presidents of
>the organization, and that they, the future presidents, are
>all God-realized. But,again, as a member, I have to take
>those assertions on faith; since they, the organization,
>provide no tangible documentation.
What do you think they should do here, put it in the magazine or
something? For what reason? Yoganda said that the future of the
organization had been set forth by Babaji and himself. What tangible
documentation are you looking for?
>I've never encountered in Yogananda's writings any
>reference to any of the above assertions. Perhaps you have
>and can therefore provide me with those citations for my
>perusal.
I don't have them handy, but perusing this thread, I see that someone
else has offered direct quotes, so "what he said." ;)
>SRF, the organization, also has an expanding evolution of
>the office of president. When Rajarsi was president, there
>wasn't any mention of his being Yogananda's successor; or
>his channel. The position was seen as simply the head of
>the organization. It wasn't until the later years, under
>Daya Mata, that the organization began to present her, and
>hence the office, as identical with Yogananda.
What are you basing this on? The last person on earth who would equate
herself as identical with Yogananda is Ma. I've heard her say it
numerous times and read it yet again and again, that she is not a
guru, or successor. He was the last of the line and will be the guru
always. She is running the organization, under the dictates that he
left to her. (Yes, I see this seems to be an issue under question.)
>Currently,
>the atmosphere at the organization is one in which the
>president makes a decision which is seen to be infalliable
>because the president is God-realized, in complete
>attunement with Yogananda,and consequently, that decision
>is seen by the organization and the layity as to be the
>same as Yogananda. There is no separation.
Between what? That Ma is the successor, or that Ma is attuned? Yes,
she maintains that she is attuned, and clearly explains the way this
attunement was attained and when.
I don't know if you are doubting her realization or her dedication to
going by what Yoganada instructed her to do, but he did train her
directly for the position, much against her personal wishes. So are
you doubting him or her?
>And because of that, Sister Daya has become Daya Mata, then
>Reverend Mother Daya Mata, and then, Sangha Mata Sri Daya
>Mata. Even Master only changed his title once, and that was
>because his Master had changed it for him!
You forgot Sri Sri Dayamata. All of the above are designates of
respect, not the same as Paramahansa, which was confered upon him by
Yukteswar. Which of the above are you doubting, and why?
What is it you are saying here, that Ma's on an ego kick? What's your
point.
>So currently there is an unwritten assumption that Sri Daya
>Mata is infallible. Whatever she decides is straight from
>God and Master.
That would be the attunement thing. She's got it or she doesn't. What
do you think?
>But doesn't this preclude the realization
>that Master doesn't need an intermediary?
No. It doesn't. The organization needs someone to run it and follow
his guidelines. That is her place and the only thing she has ever
claimed. And when she is gone, someone of equal abilty will be in the
position, unless you doubt Babaji and Yogandanda.
>For isn't Cosmic
>Consciousness, as we all believe our Guruji to have
>attained, eternal? And if that is true, why does he need a
>successor. Or more bizarre, a "channel."
You are confusing things here. Ma is not his successor, as in lineage.
He was the last of the line, which Ma will be the first to tell you,
which she has over and over again.
An anecdote: I was at a convocation one time, and Ma came out at the
end. Of course, devotion being what it is, along with respect, someone
yelled out "Jai Ma" as she came up to her chair. Without missing a
beat, she said, "No, Jai Guru!" She has never ever put herself
anywhere near him in terms of successor or any of that. Never.
>
>So, you have decided, for yourself, that SRF is your
>organization. I too share that same faith. But, as a matter
>of compassion and living that faith, shouldn't we offer
>this brother any type of aid we can muster to help him in
>his hour of doubt?
That's a good point, and I agree fully. Anytime anyone comes to such a
cross-road, you know they are going through a severe time. I wish him
or her all the support he or she can find. If there's any way I can
help, I am happy to.
Fred
Fred Hageman
<williammcc...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I will state it
>simply. Is SRF, the organization, infallible? Is the
>president infallible? Is the president the successor to the
>guru?
As, I've said in the other post, Ma is not the sucessor to Master as
far as lineage goes. She would never make that claim. The question
here is whether Ma is attuned with Master. Is she or isn't she? She
has devoted here life to serving him that devoted his life to setting
a work in motion. Questions seem to hinge on who of the two we think
missed the boat.
>I've answered those questions to my own satisfaction. I
>continue to be a loyal devotee to my guru, and a member of
>SRF. But, I don't mind saying, that that relationship is
>private, and is therefore not a topic I will discuss on
>this forum.
I don't think there is any need to disclose such. I certainly would be
hesitant to do so, and have been. Good thinking.
>There has been an progressive evolution of the presidency.
>I find that to be unfortunate.
I don't follow this. Do you mean in honorifics or otherwise?
>There is only one guru for
>those who take the kriya diksha of Paramahansa Yogananda
>via SRF, and, through him, his lineage.
No one in SRF has ever said otherwise, ever. Least of all, Ma. What
are you implying here? They are rather stubborn on the point.
>
>Today, we find that our Guru is no longer in the frame we
>knew as Yogananda.
What does this mean? I haven't seen that frame move an inch, ever.
>Therefore new, and also many older
>devotees look to his remaining direct disciples with the
>type of ardor and devotion that, were he in his body, would
>naturally be given to him. In that dynamic lies the rub.
There ain't no dynamic, and there ain't no rub. No one can predict
what devotees might latch onto, or why, but the "rub" is whether or
not any one of these direct disciples is culpable of fostering such an
ardor and devotion to themselves instead of where it belongs, with
Master. They do *not* do this, and they never have.
An anecdote: Brother Anandamoy was ministering at a temple for awhile.
He then moved elsewhere. The first service, he looked out and saw
these people from his old temple attending his services in this new
location, many miles from his former post. After the service, as they
came to speak with him, he lit into them and told them, with that
wonderful Anandamoy fire, "You follow *Him,* not me!"
>
>For Yogananda never counseled his future disciples to look
>to any of the future presidents of SRF as successors to
>him.
That's right. And none of the folks at SRF have done anything to
foster such. They are adamantly against it. And they will tell you so
in no uncertain terms.
>The SRF claims he carefully trained them for the
>ardous task of establishing SRF as a world organization.
>And they seem to be faithfully undertaking that task as we
>speak.
Extremely faithfully, which is my point.
>But I will never confuse the Master with the president.
There's no reason to. Master is the guru. Case closed.
>Or
>the organization for the Master.
Again.
>Or a direct-disciple for
>the Master; even though all of the ones I've met, including
>Daya Mata, Durga Mata, Uma Mata, Mukti Mata, Swami
>Ananadamoy, Swami Bhatkananda all shine with the
>unmistakeable glow of deep realization.
This is a very good call. I've met them all, except Durga Ma, and I
agree with you. Which one of these have you seen suggesting otherwise?
>That's my only point.
And it's a good one.
>Too much emphasis upon the office of
>the president leads, as we can see in the example of the
>Catholic church, to a concentration of power that, I'm sure
>you'll agree, our Guru never advocated.
This isn't the same. And, neither Master, nor anyone else has ever
gone this way. If SRF has a dogma, beyond *Meditate!,* surely this is
it.
>His counsel remains: practice the teachings, love the Lord,
>serve all. And as you know, my brother, this is only
>possible through each disciple's deep attunement with the
>undying, omniscient, ever-loving Guru, alone.
Right on the money. Absolutely.
>He promises us that his sole desire and purpose is to give
>unto us the same. Therein lies our soul's satisfaction!
Amen. And no one from SRF has ever said otherwise.
Fred
Fred Hageman
>1. Is SRF, the organization, infallible?
> No. Who implied they were? That is the key.
Well, this does call into question whether or not they are following
Master's guidelines. I think this is the point.
>
>2. Is the president infallible?
> No. Who implied the were? Again, that is the key.
All of Ma's claims, such as they have come from the stance that she is
following Master's wishes, which she had said is the only compass she
abides by, repeatedly.
>3. Is the president the successor to the Guru?
> "There will always be at the head of this organization men and women
>of realization. They are already known to God and the Gurus. They shall
>serve as my spiritual successors and representitives in all spiritual
>and organizational matters."
>
>Paramahansa Yogananda
But this doesn't and has never meant that she, he, or they are the
"succesor" in the lineage. They ain't, and they will be the first to
tell you. Sharply, if it is needed.
>
> "Those who will succeed me as representitive spiritual head of this
>work are already chosen by God and the Gurus..."
>
>Paramahansa Yogananda
Representitive head of the organization is not the same as succesor.
They know this fully, and never tire of saying so.
>Personally, I, and I'll bet the majority of the devotees, still
>have the Master in the original frame of baptism.
>There will always be those that worship the personality.
>That is not the fault of the direct disciples nor due to
>shameless self-promotion.
>The "rub" is ego attachment----self-induced.
Bingo. Good point. Well, great point, sir, or madame.
>>
>> For Yogananda never counseled his future disciples to look
>> to any of the future presidents of SRF as successors to
>> him. The SRF claims he carefully trained them for the
>> ardous task of establishing SRF as a world organization.
>> And they seem to be faithfully undertaking that task as we
>> speak.
>>
>> But I will never confuse the Master with the president. Or
>> the organization for the Master. Or a direct-disciple for
>> the Master; even though all of the ones I've met, including
>> Daya Mata, Durga Mata, Uma Mata, Mukti Mata, Swami
>> Ananadamoy, Swami Bhatkananda all shine with the
>> unmistakeable glow of deep realization.
>
>The confusion lies with the unnecessarily confused.
Perhaps. But we all know what this is like. We've all had to go
through it or are going through it. Which of us, if Yogananda was in
the body, would not be doing whatever we could to make a bee-line to
that spot? I would, assuredly. You may disagree. But, clearly, it's an
urge that is easy to understand.
>> That's my only point. Too much emphasis upon the office of
>> the president leads, as we can see in the example of the
>> Catholic church, to a concentration of power that, I'm sure
>> you'll agree, our Guru never advocated.
>
>Who is placing that emphasis, William?
Yes, I agree. Where is this emphasis coming from? It ain't coming from
SRF, that's for sure.
>
>> His counsel remains: practice the teachings, love the Lord,
>> serve all. And as you know, my brother, this is only
>> possible through each disciple's deep attunement with the
>> undying, omniscient, ever-loving Guru, alone.
>
>Yes William, that, indeed, is it!
Me, too, me, too. This can't be stated with too much emphasis.
>
>> He promises us that his sole desire and purpose is to give
>> unto us the same. Therein lies our soul's satisfaction!
>
>Yes!
And again.
Fred
Jiva
>After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the way
>the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
>organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
>But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
>India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
>Disenchanted
Why don't you go see Sai Baba in Puttaparthy. He's the guru du jour in
India. Just make sure you're wearing clean underwear when he calls you in
to his 'interview room'.
Jiva
>After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the way
>the organization is going.
Many people feel the same way.
>I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. The
question is, why did Yogananda change it? And is it as effective as the
original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in the
original way). Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's obviously
not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari Mudra, Navi
Kriya and others are missing. Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect any
Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty new in the
West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this life, and
we'll worry about the rest later.
>I never did like
>organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
>But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey direction.
It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what did you
expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add more
water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
>Maybe I should go to
>India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
>Disenchanted
Why don't you go see Sai Baba in Puttaparthy. He's the guru du jour in
India. Just make sure you're wearing clean underwear when he calls you in
to his 'interview room'.
No, seriously, you could consult with Swami Satyeswarananda in San Diego.
If you get a good vibration about him, maybe he could accept you for
training. Then let us know how it goes, because not too much info from
direct sources is known about him.
Jiva
Imperfect Chela
has become Master's successor (in the line of gurus). I was finally about
to write to say how ridiculous this is to me. In the forty years that I've
been following Master, very imperfectly I'll admit, I've only heard from
Ma just the opposite. "Don't follow me; follow Master."
Fred Hageman has said it all--much better than I can.
Imperfect Chela
One of the disciples -- we'll call him John -- was telling the other
diciples that he knew a better way to practice Kriya. "If you just do it
this way," he said, "it will work much better."
One of the other disciples went to master and told him that John was
telling people that "if you do it this way, it'll work much better."
Master said, "Oh that John! He was telling people that same thing in his
past life!"
nojdw
Hmmmmmmm,
Sounds like Kriyananda("See if they will accept you"),
and Roy Eugene Davis ("I AM HIS ONLY GURU-SUCCESSOR").
nojdw © ™ ®
Fred Hageman
>> I once heard one of Master's direct disciples tell the following
>story:
>>
>> One of the disciples -- we'll call him John -- was telling the other
>> diciples that he knew a better way to practice Kriya. "If you just do
>it
>> this way," he said, "it will work much better."
>>
>> One of the other disciples went to master and told him that John was
>> telling people that "if you do it this way, it'll work much better."
>>
>> Master said, "Oh that John! He was telling people that same thing in
>his
>> past life!"
LOL. Ya, there's always been these folk. Remember the guy in the AY,
"gimme the second kriya, gimme the second kriya" to Lahiri? He brings
in Brinda, the postman, and asks him if he wants the second kriya.
Brinda says, "oh, no. Please Master. I am getting such results from
the first kriya that I can't deliver the letters!" The guy sees this
and says, "Master, I am a poor workman finding fault with my tools."
So it goes. Hell, I think most of us have been in this guy's place, as
well as the place of the disenchanted person who started this thread.
It's a tough spot. I just hope he doesn't bolt and go off on a long
round of futile searching for what he already has.
>
>Hmmmmmmm,
>Sounds like Kriyananda("See if they will accept you"),
>and Roy Eugene Davis ("I AM HIS ONLY GURU-SUCCESSOR").
Sigh. It always amazes me that folks will listen to the stuff these
two have to say as if it were gospel, and then start to doubt Ma and
SRF because of it. If anyone within SRF said a 10th of this sorta
stuff, there'd be holy hell, but the breakaway folk don't get examined
with any discrimination too much of the time.
I've never met Roy, but had the chance to meet Donald way back, before
his undending troubles came to get him. But, even then, it was clear
as to who the "star" was, and it put me off right away. Ma would never
do such or sanction anyone treating her as such. But the stuff these
guys get away with with their followers boggles the mind.
Discrimination. So hard to get, so easy to misplace, eh?
Fred
nojdw
Who let you out of the I'm Not OK Corral mental hospital.
Once again you conned the white coats into letting you
have internet access. And you let your Thorazine prescription
run-out!
Give it a break garbage mouth. No one wants to hear your false
information. You have no credibility. Everyone is aware of your
flagrant symptoms of psychotic disorders.
Finish the chess game-------coward!!
I remain,
nojdw © ™ ®
PS,
Take the lifts out of your shoes. This will not
help your Napoleon complex.
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@jiva.jiva> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:32:58 GMT, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
>
> >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
way
> >the organization is going.
>
> Many people feel the same way.
>
The number of people which adhere to a belief doesn't make that
belief true.
> >I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
> >isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> >Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
>
> It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri
Mahasaya. The
> question is, why did Yogananda change it? And is it as effective as
the
> original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in the
> original way). Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's
obviously
> not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari
Mudra, Navi
> Kriya and others are missing.
The above statements are not completely accurate.
Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect any
> Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty new
in the
> West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this
life, and
> we'll worry about the rest later.
The above statement is complete crap. Yogananda can take a person to
cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
> >I never did like
> >organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
Kriya.
> >But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> >everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
>
> They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey
direction.
> It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what did
you
> expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add more
> water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
>
You may fool some people into thinking that you know what you are
talking about, but probably what is closer to the truth is that the
only thing that has been "dumbed down" is you - unless that is just an
act. Your posts that interpret the Gita, for example, have illustrated
your lack of understanding and are quite flawed.
And quite honestly, your pig headedness, unkind remarks, and general
callousness towards others has seriously made me consider the fact that
you might in fact be on the mission of an asura - a devil in the flesh
with a mission to keep men bound by confusing them and deluding them
away from the path of righteousness. The question in my mind, is
whether or not you are acting in this capacity to serve God in his
overall plan of creation (which includes the Satanic aspect), or if you
are merely deluded.
And that, Jivass, fairly adequately summarizes my opinion of you.
Stoltz
il...@angelfire.com
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
way
it
> isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
Kriya.
> But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
> Disenchanted
>
Why not take advantage of situations? This is a good chance for you
to build up some self-confidence. Try the following "starter kit".
(Just promise me, though, that you will go back to your "sweet old
church" soon enough. Once you have built up enough self-confidence,
everything in your way will turn to gold. This is the "art of turning
garbage into gold".)
-- ilgu
il...@angelfire.com
http://www.itsmysite.com/yourpage/ (Home page)
http://live.altavista.com/clubs-zenzen (Zen club site)
almi...@my-deja.com
Sri Daya Mataji said:
"Remember, every time you repeat the name of the Guru, try to feel His
presence. If you do this, you will find yourself drawing closer to him.
Don't say, 'I didn't know him.' Don't worry about that. Visualize him
in your Christ center and try to relate to him. He is the greatest
friend and the greatest confidant you will ever have. As *God's
channel,* he is the greatest protector and well-wisher of the disciple.
Try to know him. If you do that day after day you will come to the
realization that he is always silently with you; there is no
separation....
"That is your guru; he wants the highest for you and for every one of
us. Where else will you find the kind of rich spiritual wealth that he
laid at your feet? You will never find another like him. I often think
how blessed we all are. My dears, we could have been drawn to any of
the *false prophets* of today. But we had the good karma to be drawn to
a truly divine soul. I have not yet met one of his spiritual stature,
even in India. And I do not say that just because he is my guru, but
because of my long association with him. *If you can live around a
person for over twenty years and behold in him a greatness that does
not diminish, but ever increases, then you can know he is truly a great
soul.* Such is our guru, Paramahansa Yogananda." - Sri Daya Mata, in
"Self-Realization" magazine, Spring 1982, page 17.
"As I have said many times, please never, never equate Daya Ma with the
Guru. Neither Daya Ma nor any other of Gurudeva's successors who will
come in the future will ever presume to assume the role of Guru.... I
am nothing. In that nothingness I am content; because in being nothing,
my beloved Guru is everything....
"You have kindly honored Daya Mata today. In years ahead there will be
others to honor; I am just a symbol. But there will always be one
eternal flame in Guruji's society [Self-Realization Fellowship], and
that is our beloved Gurudeva. He said:
"'My body is nothing. Whether I am in the body or not, still, to those
who will be in tune I shall stoop down from heaven to make them realize
the love of my Father.'
"That is the mission of our blessed Guru. He continues to stoop down
from heaven to make all of us who will strive to be in tune with him
realize the love of our Cosmic Beloved." - Sri Daya Mata, in "Self-
Realization" magazine, Winter 1991, pp. 17-8.
These words from Ma speak for themselves.
almir
Steven M. Stoltz
nojdw <no...@aol.com> wrote:
> Take the lifts out of your shoes. This will not
> help your Napoleon complex.
>
Nojdw, even remotely comparing him to Napolean is totally inappropriate.
After all, Napolean was somebody Swami Sri Yukteswar actually praised
in his book, "The Holy Science". Clearly, this man deserves no such \
praise.
Stoltz
Fred Hageman
<sto...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
>way
>> >the organization is going.
>>
>> Many people feel the same way.
>>
>
> The number of people which adhere to a belief doesn't make that
>belief true.
Good point, but I still want to know how anyone knows about many
people feeling whatever. It's such an empty statement. What is it
based on?
>> >I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>> >isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>> >Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
>>
>> It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri
>Mahasaya. The
>> question is, why did Yogananda change it?
What evidence is there for this supposed change? And, again, why would
he change the foundation of what he was sent to the west to
accomplish?
>And is it as effective as
>the
>> original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in the
>> original way).
Where's the 12 come from. I know of 4. Where do the rest fit in?
>Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's
>obviously
>> not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari
>Mudra, Navi
>> Kriya and others are missing.
Why is it so obvious? What kind of evidence do you have?
>The above statements are not completely accurate.
Yeah, what he said.
> Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect any
>> Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty new
>in the
>> West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this
>life, and
>> we'll worry about the rest later.
>
>
>The above statement is complete crap. Yogananda can take a person to
>cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
Again, I agree. There's no basis in that statement at all. I don't
understand such cynicism in the face of the many westerners who have
gone on to achieve such tremendous results. Ma, Rajarsi, Gyanamata,
Durga Mata, Tara Mata, Bhaktananda, Anandamoy, Bhimilananda, Premamoy,
Turiyananda, Dharmananda, Uma Mata, Santoshananda, Mukti Mata,
Mrinilini Mata, Anihlinanda, and all the other incredible souls that
have done the work and reaped the gains. What other tradition has such
a large number of heavyweights in tow. Not very many.
Having been around these people, I can't point to anyone else and say
that they have what these folk have. They are the proof of the path,
and all this drivel about dilution falls fast when ya see what this
path can produce.
>
>> >I never did like
>> >organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
>Kriya.
>> >But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>> >everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
>>
>> They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey
>direction.
>> It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what did
>you
>> expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add more
>> water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
Try looking at things without the shit-colored glasses. This stuff
you've stated is entirely facile.
>
>You may fool some people into thinking that you know what you are
>talking about, but probably what is closer to the truth is that the
>only thing that has been "dumbed down" is you - unless that is just an
>act. Your posts that interpret the Gita, for example, have illustrated
>your lack of understanding and are quite flawed.
I've not seen this stuff you allude to, but if any of what is
presented here is an indicative, I don't think I will be bothering to
look for it.
Fred
Stu
wrote on 6/1/00 7:32 PM:
> After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the way
> the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
> isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
> organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of Kriya.
> But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
> India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
> Disenchanted
I noticed the amazing amount of cross posting your post involves. I am not
about to get involved with the SRF. Could you reveal the actual techniques
of Kriya yoga that you practice so we could understand your dilemma? They
seem to be a mystery in any writings I have read.
--
~Stu
devo...@my-deja.com
> > I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I will state it
> > simply. Is SRF, the organization, infallible? Is the
> > president infallible? Is the president the successor to the
> > guru?
>
> 1. Is SRF, the organization, infallible?
> No. Who implied they were? That is the key.
You have, nojdw, over and over again. You keep saying that they are the
only reliable source for information and quotes on Yogananda. That their
'edited' versions of Yogananda's words are infallibly true. That if
people want to find out about the dishonesty around the Mt. Washington
renovations, they should call Mother Center, rather than looking into
the facts themselves.
>
> 2. Is the president infallible?
> No. Who implied the were? Again, that is the key.
You have, nojdw.
>
> 3. Is the president the successor to the Guru?
> "There will always be at the head of this organization men and
women
> of realization. They are already known to God and the Gurus. They
shall
> serve as my spiritual successors and representitives in all spiritual
> and organizational matters."
>
> Paramahansa Yogananda
This is a perfect example. This quote never appeared until the 1960's
when it was sprung on long time disciples, none of whom ever remembered
hearing it. If it were written in Master's handwriting, then it would be
believable. But many disciples, including some in SRF, doubt the
veracity of this quote.
> "Those who will succeed me as representitive spiritual head of this
> work are already chosen by God and the Gurus..."
>
> Paramahansa Yogananda
>
> >
> > I've answered those questions to my own satisfaction. I
> > continue to be a loyal devotee to my guru, and a member of
> > SRF. But, I don't mind saying, that that relationship is
> > private, and is therefore not a topic I will discuss on
> > this forum.
> >
> > There has been an progressive evolution of the presidency.
> > I find that to be unfortunate. There is only one guru for
> > those who take the kriya diksha of Paramahansa Yogananda
> > via SRF, and, through him, his lineage.
> >
> > Today, we find that our Guru is no longer in the frame we
> > knew as Yogananda. Therefore new, and also many older
> > devotees look to his remaining direct disciples with the
> > type of ardor and devotion that, were he in his body, would
> > naturally be given to him. In that dynamic lies the rub.
>
> Personally, I, and I'll bet the majority of the devotees, still
> have the Master in the original frame of baptism.
> There will always be those that worship the personality.
> That is not the fault of the direct disciples nor due to
> shameless self-promotion.
> The "rub" is ego attachment----self-induced.
There will always be those that worship the organization, and not the
Guru. That is not the way or our Guru.
Jason Cunningham
i've heard that yogananda simplified a lot of the teachings he gave to srf.
i heard this from a 17-year devotee of srf who reached an impasse, and went
looking for another way. he found what i believe is an authentic ashram of
babaji in canada. its website is www.babaji.ca .
peace
jason
"nojdw" <no...@aol.com> wrote in message news:8h7kn5$47l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <39371CE5...@enchan.ted>,
> Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> > After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
> way
> > the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear
> it
> > isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> > Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
> > organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
> Kriya.
> > But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> > everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
> > India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > Disenchanted
>
>
> Oh-kay then-----leave!
> How do you expect the Master's to help you with that kind of attitude??
>
> nojdw © T ®
py dev too
Thank you all so very much for the kindness that is
reflected by your messages. Master often quoted the
proverb, "fools argue, wise men discuss." And you are all
reflective of that sage advise!
I hope someday to have a deeper discussion of this issue.
But because this board has been linked to many other sites
unrelated to this discussion I've decided take to "the
better part of valour" at this time. And at any rate,
after closely reading your posts, it is apparent to me that
I need to contact the Mother Center to resolve this issue
in my own mind.
Finally some wisdom from "Swami Beyondananda" the humorist,
"Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
And no matter what adversity you face, be reassured: of
course God loves you. He's just not ready to make a
commitment."
Namaste!!!
Jiva
About
Nojdw (Fred Parente)
1. Who is Nojdw?
Nojdw (no...@aol.com) is the Internet handle of a frustrated homosexual and
major nutcase who plagues the yoga newsgroups and message boards with his
anti-Ananda/Swami Kriyananda agenda, as well as tons of unintelligible
garbage posts typical of a lunatic.
2. What is Nojdw's real name?
His real name is Fred Parente. He sometimes also posts as 'Astral'.
3. What does Nojdw stand for?
Nojdw stands for No J Donald Walters. J Donald Walters is the real name of
Swami Kriyananda, the embattled self-appointed guru of Ananda Community in
Nevada City, CA. Ananda is a 60s style commune, a holdover from the hippy
era. It was founded by Swami Kriyananda, a disciple of Paramahansa
Yogananda, when he was expelled from Self-Realization Fellowship, the
organization that Yogananda founded. Swami Kriyananda and Ananda have been
hit by many lawsuits from women devotees who were sexually harassed by
Kriyananda.
4. What is Nojdw's problem?
Well, that's a long story. He doesn't have just one problem, he has many.
5. What's his problem with Ananda/Kriyananda?
Nojdw is an ex-member of the Ananda commune. He is a frustrated homosexual
who wanted to be Swami Kriyananda's lover. Unfortunately for him, he
discovered that Swami Kriyananda's weakness is for the opposite sex.
Kriyananda's indifference toward Nojdw left him bitter and broken. Some of
the other Ananda residents have told of how Nojdw used to go into jealous
rages when Kriyananda payed attention to the women. Some described how he
went out of control 'like a jealous bitch' whenever he saw Kriyananda even
talk to a woman. Some members also described how they would hear screams
coming out of Nojdw's room at night when he had sex with himself using a
vibrating sexual aid he nicknamed Swami. Nojdw was often raped and
sodomized by the other men in the commune to see if they could cure him of
his lust for their guru, but it was no use. Nojdw contined lusting after
the guru ever more. In the end he left, broken-hearted, when he realized
the guru was never going to pay attention to him.
6. Is that why he posts so much vicious and hateful rhetoric against Swami
Kriyananda on the Internet?
Yes. He has made it his mission in life to spam as many newsgroups and
message boards with his anti-Ananda/Kriyananda vitriol as possible. So
watch out, if yours hasn't been hit yet, it surely will!
7. What other problems does Nojdw have?
Nojdw has an alcohol and drug abuse problem. It is said that he hasn't
been sober since 1965. As a result, it's often pretty much impossible to
decipher what he writes.
8. What else?
Nojdw has an ego problem as well. He needs to be the spotlight wherever he
posts. If he perceives that other posters' messages obscure his own, he
goes berserk. He starts spewing forth tons of garbage, real demented
rantings, as well as songs and poems written by himself and others while
stoned out of their minds. When he starts posting crap about a chess game,
watch out!
9. Is Nojdw insane?
Yes. Some say he lost his mind when he was spurned by Kriyananda, others
say he never had one to begin with.
10. Where does he live?
Nojdw is locked up in an insane asylum for life. He lives in a padded cell
where he was allowed to have a computer and Internet connection so he would
stop screaming and yelling obscenities and his own feces at the nurses and
hospital workers. In light of his demented spamming attacks, they are
thinking of taking his computer privileges away.
END OF FAQ
Copyright: This document is public domain. Distribute freely.
Acknowledgements: Many thanks to all who made contributions to this FAQ.
Jiva
>In article <8camjsknqfga36a25...@4ax.com>,
> Jiva <ji...@jiva.jiva> wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:32:58 GMT, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
>>
>> >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
>way
>> >the organization is going.
>>
>> Many people feel the same way.
>>
>
> The number of people which adhere to a belief doesn't make that
>belief true.
Maybe if you take that reading comprehension course that you so badly need
you'll see that I did not say that.
>> >I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
>> >isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
>> >Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
>>
>> It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri
>Mahasaya. The
>> question is, why did Yogananda change it? And is it as effective as
>the
>> original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in the
>> original way). Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's
>obviously
>> not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari
>Mudra, Navi
>> Kriya and others are missing.
>
>
>The above statements are not completely accurate.
Spoken like a true ignoramus. Claim it's not accurate but fail to provide
the alleged inaccuracies. Figures....
Please come back and discuss this topic when you can at least tell me what
were the original 12 Kriyas taught by Babaji. Until then, you're nothing
but a spiritual victrola parroting what you read in SRF's books.
> Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect any
>> Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty new
>in the
>> West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this
>life, and
>> we'll worry about the rest later.
>
>
>The above statement is complete crap.
Another highly intelligent aphorism from Swami Steven Shitz.
>Yogananda can take a person to
>cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
Like I told you before, those voices inside your head are *not* Yogananda
speaking to you. Think about it....
>> >I never did like
>> >organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
>Kriya.
>> >But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
>> >everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
>>
>> They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey
>direction.
>> It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what did
>you
>> expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add more
>> water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
>>
>
>You may fool some people into thinking that you know what you are
>talking about, but probably what is closer to the truth is that the
>only thing that has been "dumbed down" is you - unless that is just an
>act. Your posts that interpret the Gita, for example, have illustrated
>your lack of understanding and are quite flawed.
There go those voices inside your head again. I have never posted
interpretations of the Gita.
>And quite honestly, your pig headedness, unkind remarks, and general
>callousness towards others has seriously made me consider the fact that
>you might in fact be on the mission of an asura - a devil in the flesh
>with a mission to keep men bound by confusing them and deluding them
>away from the path of righteousness. The question in my mind, is
>whether or not you are acting in this capacity to serve God in his
>overall plan of creation (which includes the Satanic aspect), or if you
>are merely deluded.
>
>And that, Jivass, fairly adequately summarizes my opinion of you.
>
>Stoltz
And what, if I may ask, Swami Shitz, makes you think that I would give a
rat's ass about your opinions?
As I've told you before, for someone who claims to have received SRF's
second Kriya initiation, you have precious little to show for it. You
certainly have no powers of perception or understanding beyond the first
grade level. Hell, you can't even comprehend what you read!
You are the best proof of those who say that SRF's Kriya is not effective.
Fred Hageman
>I noticed the amazing amount of cross posting your post involves. I am not
>about to get involved with the SRF. Could you reveal the actual techniques
>of Kriya yoga that you practice so we could understand your dilemma? They
>seem to be a mystery in any writings I have read.
People who receive kriya and the other techniques from SRF are bound
by an oath *not* to reveal them. They are freely available from SRF,
but since kriya was lost for so many years, SRF is doing what it can
to keep it intact, hence the oath to keep the "whispering down the
lane" stuff out of the loop.
Fred
Fred Hageman
<hbone...@voyager.net> wrote:
>
>i've heard that yogananda simplified a lot of the teachings he gave to srf.
>i heard this from a 17-year devotee of srf who reached an impasse, and went
>looking for another way. he found what i believe is an authentic ashram of
>babaji in canada. its website is www.babaji.ca .
sigh. Why is it that all the impasse reachers want to go and blame the
techniques for their impasse? Like Yogananda said again and again, if
you go diving for pearls and don't find any, don't blame the ocean;
blame your diving.
After making the guru-disciple bond, which is the heart of receiving
kriya, going "somewhere else" is a losing proposition any way you look
at it. How can it be justified?
Fred
baru...@my-deja.com
> I noticed the amazing amount of cross posting your post involves. I am
not
> about to get involved with the SRF. Could you reveal the actual
techniques
> of Kriya yoga that you practice so we could understand your dilemma?
They
> seem to be a mystery in any writings I have read.
> --
> ~Stu
>
Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay, and also discusses the
modifications made by Yogananda. It is available from:
nojdw
baru...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay, and also discusses the
> modifications made by Yogananda. It is available from:
>
> www.sanskritclassics.com
Baruch,
Do you question or doubt Paramahansa Yogananda?
Do you question or doubt Babaji?
nojdw © ™ ®
Steven M. Stoltz
> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay
Actually, in fairness, it should simply be said that the book outlines
Kriya yoga from the point of view of Swami Satyeswarananda Giri. Who
knows if SSG's approach has any resemblance to that of Sri Lahiri
Mahasaya, since - after all, that is merely a matter of belief to those
who read the book.
Stoltz
pur...@my-deja.com
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
way
it
> isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
Kriya.
> But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
>
> Disenchanted
1. Why did you post this to all of these groups?
<<alt.yogananda,alt.yoga,alt.meditation,soc.culture.indian,alt.religion.
hindu,alt.religion.vaisnava,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.buddhism,
alt.zen>>
2. SRF is a young organization, relatively speaking. Mistakes and
missteps will happen. If the organization will be around for several
thousand years and it is less than 100 years old, it's still in diapers.
3. Which way is the organization going? Would you clarify this?
4. The nature of the mind is doubt. Maya likes to keep things stirred
up and keep creation going. Have you had any benefit from your Kriya
practice? (I'm not talking about visions or anything, for those are not
important.) Are your meditations deeper and deeper to the best of your
ability on a daily basis? Are you meditating regularly? (You can go to
another teacher or Guru but you may run into the same "problem"
whatever that might be).
5. If you've taken Kriya (and I don't know how many years you've had
it) it is definitely over 1 year. Master wrote to, essentially, put
your whole effort into this path for at least a year and if it's not
for you then find what is for you. Have you done this willingly?
6. How do you know this Kriya is not as effective as the "other" Kriya?
How do you know that we don't have the original Kriya from thousands of
years ago and the other Kriya is the "new and changed" Kriya?
(Remember, we just came out of the Dark Ages. In fact, it was the low
point of several cycles. Things don't get much darker than they were.)
7. Have you done what Master says about urgent matters? Meditate, do
Kriya, and then ask for guidance holding the rose petals in your right
hand? And sing the special chant?
8. Is there some other issue in your life that may have touched this
off? Ultimately, it is each one of us and the Guru. Or, rather, us and
God. No one said ultimate fulfillment would be easy and sometimes right
before you get to the summit of a mountain the climb is vertical. So it
may seem, almost, impossible.
9. Are you endeavoring to stay attuned to Master? Do you read the
lessons or other writings for 30 minutes daily? Or not meeting that,
how about 1 paragraph or one sentence? How about the Spiritual Diary?
10. Have you tried practicing the presence of God? Try to make it a
game? Take something from the lessons or writings or think to do
something that reminds you of God. Do you practice japa (sp?) yoga?
11. Do you attend a meditation group or have a support group around
you? Many times when we have issues that we deal with, we think we are
the only ones going through something until we speak to someone else
who has also had the same, or similar, difficult experience. We're not
alone. All of the issues we need to deal with are inside of us. We have
everything we need at each moment in time to reach God. It's a choice.
Going to India, staying in the US (are you in the US), won't really
change anything. Everything you are dealing with will stay with you
until you face and overcome it.
12. Are you a real person? (I hope this is not a hoax.)
God be with you,
purusha :)
pur...@my-deja.com
> SRF, the organization, also has an expanding evolution of
> the office of president. When Rajarsi was president, there
> wasn't any mention of his being Yogananda's successor; or
> his channel. The position was seen as simply the head of
> the organization. It wasn't until the later years, under
> Daya Mata, that the organization began to present her, and
> hence the office, as identical with Yogananda. Currently,
> the atmosphere at the organization is one in which the
> president makes a decision which is seen to be infalliable
> because the president is God-realized, in complete
> attunement with Yogananda,and consequently, that decision
> is seen by the organization and the layity as to be the
> same as Yogananda. There is no separation.
Daya Mata needs to be told things like everyone else. She has a part to
play in creation.
> And because of that, Sister Daya has become Daya Mata, then
> Reverend Mother Daya Mata, and then, Sangha Mata Sri Daya
> Mata. Even Master only changed his title once, and that was
> because his Master had changed it for him!
The nuns take the suffix "Mata" if they are on the SRF Board of
Directors, otherwise they remain Sister 'somebody.' ALso, I sincerely
doubt that Daya Mata decided one day, I think I'll be called "such and
such" from now on. Just like Mahatma Ghandi never refered to himself
as "Mahatma". It was his followers that bestowed the title out of
respect and reverence. (On one of the tapes, if you recall, Brother
Anandamoy says, "Did you hear how they introduced me? The Reverend
Brother Anandamoy." Do you think he wrote notes and told someone to say
that?) The titles people refer to Daya Mata are due to respect and
reverence.
pur...@my-deja.com
>
> >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
way
> >the organization is going.
>
Possibly because the attention is focused outward on the organization.
Is there a desire for the organization to be perfect?
>
> >I received Kriya years ago but now I hear it
> >isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> >Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
>
> It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri
Mahasaya. The
> question is, why did Yogananda change it? And is it as effective as
the
> original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in the
> original way). Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's
obviously
> not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari
Mudra, Navi
> Kriya and others are missing. Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect
any
> Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty new
in the
> West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this
life, and
> we'll worry about the rest later.
>
Misleading and speculative.
> >I never did like
> >organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
Kriya.
> >But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> >everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
>
> They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey
direction.
> It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what did
you
> expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add more
> water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
>
> >Maybe I should go to
> >India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
> >
> >Disenchanted
>
> Why don't you go see Sai Baba in Puttaparthy. He's the guru du jour
in
> India. Just make sure you're wearing clean underwear when he calls
you in
> to his 'interview room'.
>
> No, seriously, you could consult with Swami Satyeswarananda in San
Diego.
> If you get a good vibration about him, maybe he could accept you for
> training. Then let us know how it goes, because not too much info
from
> direct sources is known about him.
>
> Jiva
>
>
pur...@my-deja.com
> > Jiva <ji...@jiva.jiva> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:32:58 GMT, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted>
wrote:
> >>
> >> >After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand
the
> >way
> >> >the organization is going.
> >>
> >> Many people feel the same way.
> >>
> >
> >belief true.
>
> Maybe if you take that reading comprehension course that you so badly
need
> you'll see that I did not say that.
>
> >> >isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the
original
> >> >Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya.
> >>
> >> It's true, it's not the original Kriya of Babaji and Lahiri
> >Mahasaya. The
> >> question is, why did Yogananda change it? And is it as effective
as
> >the
> >> original Kriya (Kriyas, actually, since there's like 12 of them in
the
> >> original way). Well, actually, we know the answer to that, it's
> >obviously
> >> not as effective, since several key components, such as Kechari
> >Mudra, Navi
> >> Kriya and others are missing.
> >
> >
>
> Spoken like a true ignoramus. Claim it's not accurate but fail to
provide
> the alleged inaccuracies. Figures....
What is the quote? "It takes one to know one"?
>
> Please come back and discuss this topic when you can at least tell me
what
> were the original 12 Kriyas taught by Babaji. Until then, you're
nothing
> but a spiritual victrola parroting what you read in SRF's books.
>
> > Maybe Yogananda didn't really expect any
> >> Westerner to get that far in one lifetime, since yoga was pretty
new
> >in the
> >> West back then, so maybe he figured let them get started in this
> >life, and
> >> we'll worry about the rest later.
> >
> >
> >The above statement is complete crap.
>
> Another highly intelligent aphorism from Swami Steven Shitz.
>
> >Yogananda can take a person to
> >cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
>
> Like I told you before, those voices inside your head are *not*
Yogananda
> speaking to you. Think about it....
>
> >> >I never did like
> >> >organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
> >Kriya.
> >> >But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> >> >everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore.
> >>
> >> They do seem to have taken a definite step in the Oprah Winfrey
> >direction.
> >> It's too bad, we're seeing the trivialization of yoga. But, what
did
> >you
> >> expect when yoga hit The States? This is the 'dumb it down, add
more
> >> water, make it puree for the masses' capital of the world.
> >>
> >
> >You may fool some people into thinking that you know what you are
> >talking about, but probably what is closer to the truth is that the
> >only thing that has been "dumbed down" is you - unless that is just
an
> >act. Your posts that interpret the Gita, for example, have
illustrated
> >your lack of understanding and are quite flawed.
>
> There go those voices inside your head again. I have never posted
> interpretations of the Gita.
>
Ah, so Mr. Stoltz is correct.
> >And quite honestly, your pig headedness, unkind remarks, and general
> >callousness towards others has seriously made me consider the fact
that
> >you might in fact be on the mission of an asura - a devil in the
flesh
> >with a mission to keep men bound by confusing them and deluding them
> >away from the path of righteousness. The question in my mind, is
> >whether or not you are acting in this capacity to serve God in his
> >overall plan of creation (which includes the Satanic aspect), or if
you
> >are merely deluded.
> >
> >And that, Jivass, fairly adequately summarizes my opinion of you.
> >
> >Stoltz
>
> And what, if I may ask, Swami Shitz, makes you think that I would
give a
> rat's ass about your opinions?
>
> As I've told you before, for someone who claims to have received SRF's
> second Kriya initiation, you have precious little to show for it. You
> certainly have no powers of perception or understanding beyond the
first
> grade level. Hell, you can't even comprehend what you read!
>
> You are the best proof of those who say that SRF's Kriya is not
effective.
>
Jiva, How can YOU determine by outer circumstances where someone is in
their spiritual evolution? You bludgeon this newsgroup with your
assertions of how people are not being helped by yoga, meditation,
etc., etc., but have not explained from what vantage point you are see
these from? You write about spiritual victrolas a lot but seem to be
the only victrola in the newgroup! Write something original, new, and
unique, or preferably, post a quote from Yogananda that inspires you.
And can I ask a favor? Would you post your vermin posterior
descriptions to alt.jiva please? Let's all work together to uplift
alt.yogananda newsgroup. Your cooperation is appreciated.
dyas'^kr
pur...@my-deja.com wrote:
> 1. Why did you post this to all of these groups?
>
<<alt.yogananda,alt.yoga,alt.meditation,soc.culture.indian,alt.religion.
>
hindu,alt.religion.vaisnava,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.buddhism,
> alt.zen>>
I have been reading this thread in which none of the usual contributors
to soc.culture.indian has so far taken part, and have been wondering
why someone has chosen to bring out the issues here.
>
> 2. SRF is a young organization,
I wonder if the Nuns in SRF are married or not.
--
dyas'^kr
http://www.eurosys.net/gujarati
Steven M. Stoltz
> > Stoltz wrote:
> >The above statements are not completely accurate.
> Spoken like a true ignoramus. Claim it's not accurate but fail to
provide
> the alleged inaccuracies. Figures....
>
Unfortunately, a public bulletin board is not the proper place for
detailed discussion and figures on the teachings of Kriya yoga .....
> Please come back and discuss this topic when you can at least tell me
what
> were the original 12 Kriyas taught by Babaji. Until then, you're
nothing
> but a spiritual victrola parroting what you read in SRF's books.
>
If I want to SSG's home page, I'm sure I could find "authentic sounding"
names for 12 techniques that are called Kriya techniques, but; *NO ONE*
can be absolutely sure they are techniques taught by Babaji unless they
are taught from Babaji Himself. SSG claims to have been taught
directly by Babaji - but that is about as conclusive for me as
Brahman-Atmananda's claim to be a yoga master and a Paramahansa .....
While I realize the same can be said of SRF teachings, I have had some
personal experiences with Babaji through practice of Kriya that leads me
to "believe" that the SRF teachings have originated from Babaji's
approved line .......
> >Yogananda can take a person to
> >cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
>
> Like I told you before, those voices inside your head are *not*
Yogananda
> speaking to you. Think about it....
>
You clearly are not omnipresent, because you clearly do not know who I
am and have absolutely no idea of the relationship I have with
Yogananda. At any rate, that only confirms what I knew all along.
> And what, if I may ask, Swami Shitz, makes you think that I would give
a
> rat's ass about your opinions?
See my last remark.
> You are the best proof of those who say that SRF's Kriya is not
effective.
>
No - truly you are the best example of that. You did say you were a
member of SRF didn't you ?
Stoltz
Jiva
>In article <8hi3ce$bab$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> baru...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
>> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay
>
>Actually, in fairness, it should simply be said that the book outlines
>Kriya yoga from the point of view of Swami Satyeswarananda Giri. Who
>knows if SSG's approach has any resemblance to that of Sri Lahiri
>Mahasaya, since - after all, that is merely a matter of belief to those
>who read the book.
Shitz, if you'd get your head out of your ass for one moment (difficult
though that is for you) you might realize that the same can be said about
Yogananda. He taught Kriya from his own point of view. Its 'merely a
matter of belief to those who read the book' [Autobiography of a Yogi,
Lessons, etc.]
I know its difficult for you SRF True Believers (tm) to understand....
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <93rojssgmiagfr7je...@4ax.com>,
> Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
>
>> > Stoltz wrote:
>
>> >The above statements are not completely accurate.
>
>
>> Spoken like a true ignoramus. Claim it's not accurate but fail to
>provide
>> the alleged inaccuracies. Figures....
>>
>
>Unfortunately, a public bulletin board is not the proper place for
>detailed discussion and figures on the teachings of Kriya yoga .....
As usual, Snake Shitz takes the easy way out as soon as his infantile
debating techniques are pointed out to him.
Never mind that what I asked for doesn't entail 'detailed discussion and
figures on the teachings of Kriya yoga' by any stretch of the imagination.
>> Please come back and discuss this topic when you can at least tell me
>what
>> were the original 12 Kriyas taught by Babaji. Until then, you're
>nothing
>> but a spiritual victrola parroting what you read in SRF's books.
>>
>
>If I want to SSG's home page, I'm sure I could find "authentic sounding"
>names for 12 techniques that are called Kriya techniques,
So you're saying you don't know them. Thought so.
Oh, and I doubt you'd find that information on Swami Satyeswarananda's
website.
>but; *NO ONE*
>can be absolutely sure they are techniques taught by Babaji unless they
>are taught from Babaji Himself.
Just as no one can be absolutely sure then that the Kriya Yoga that
Yogananda taught has anything to do with that taught by Babaji.
>SSG claims to have been taught
>directly by Babaji - but that is about as conclusive for me as
>Brahman-Atmananda's claim to be a yoga master and a Paramahansa .....
Still obsessed with your gay Atmananda fantasy and paranoia, I see. Truly
a case of Fatal Attraction (tm).
>While I realize the same can be said of SRF teachings, I have had some
>personal experiences with Babaji through practice of Kriya that leads me
>to "believe" that the SRF teachings have originated from Babaji's
>approved line .......
If you really think you've had personal experiences with Babaji, there's a
bridge I'd like to sell you......
>> >Yogananda can take a person to
>> >cosmic consciousness, and *EXCPECTS* one to follow Him there.
>>
>> Like I told you before, those voices inside your head are *not*
>Yogananda
>> speaking to you. Think about it....
>>
>
>You clearly are not omnipresent, because you clearly do not know who I
>am
Unlike you, I never make claims of having supernatural powers.
But the fact that you've appropriated the above quote from Yogananda about
'who I am' and used it in reference to yourself shows that you are far more
deluded than anyone could have possibly imagined.
> and have absolutely no idea of the relationship I have with
>Yogananda. At any rate, that only confirms what I knew all along.
Oh, I have an idea of what kind of relationship you have with Yogananda.
Let's just say that people who make similar claims to yours are usually
locked up in nuthouses.
Which is not to say that I'm questioning the ability of some to communicate
with beings on other planes. Not at all. I fully believe in that. I'm
just questioning *your* claims about your 'relationship' with Yogananda.
Next you're probably gonna tell us you're carrying his lovechild.
>> You are the best proof of those who say that SRF's Kriya is not
>effective.
>>
>
>No - truly you are the best example of that. You did say you were a
>member of SRF didn't you ?
Another totally clueless remark from Swami Shitz.
Jiva
About
Steven M. Stoltz
1. Who is Steven M. Stoltz?
Steven M. Stoltz is a Self-Realization Fellowship fundamentalist. He
claims that he talks with Paramahansa Yogananda, the SRF's founder who
passed away in 1952, and that Yogananda talks back to him.
2. Wow, does Stoltz really think that Yogananda talks to him? What gave
him that idea?
Stoltz is a True Believer. He's an SRF fundie. He believes everything he
reads 100%. And he has a vivid imagination. He spends his life listening
to SRF tapes about miracles, and then he brainwashes himself into believing
that the stories about others' miracles and mystical experiences happened
to him. He believes that talking to Yogananda in his imagination
constitutes a real conversation. And he believes that when he imagines
that Yogananda talks back to him, that it is real. Stoltz hears voices
inside his head, and he claims that one of them is Yogananda. The other
one must be Annie Besant. LOL
3. Is Stoltz a Kriyaban?
So he says. In fact, he *claims* that he received the second Kriya. Which
is really suspect, considering that he cannot even read properly or
understand what others are saying to him. He has the reading comprehension
skills of a first grader. How can he even understand what the lessons on
Kriya Yoga say.
4. What is Stoltz's obsession with Brahman-Atmananda?
Stoltz is obsessed with Brahman-Atmananda because he is jealous of him. He
is insecure and has low self-esteem. He is insecure of his masculinity,
and therefore idolizes Brahman-Atmananda and other men. He asked
Brahman-Atmananda if he could perform fellatio on him and drink his holy
sperm so that he could become enlightened, but Atmananda refused, so that's
why Stoltz has carried on this ridiculous vendetta all these years.
5. What is Stoltz's vendetta against Atmananda?
Ever since Atmananda refused to let Stoltz suck him off, his obsession with
Atmananda has turned into Fatal Attraction. Stoltz goes from board to
board on the Web and in the newsgroups looking for Atmananda. He is
paranoid and thinks that every poster is Atmananda in disguise. As a
result, he's been banned from all Yogananda message boards for starting so
many flamewars. He doesn't give up and hopes that one day he will finally
meet Atmananda and be able to finally drink his holy jism and turn into a
siddha.
6. Why is Stoltz so hated by all?
Stoltz is a very divisive and incendiary figure. He has wreaked havoc in
every group he's ever joined, both online and offline. He's created
trouble in every SRF meditation group he's ever joined. He always starts
complaining to the Mother Center about the leaders and the other members,
and usually ends up destroying the groups and the nice fellowship that
existed before he came along. He's made countless enemies among SRFers.
At Mother Center they're so tired of him that they won't even take his
calls anymore. He is considered persona non grata at SRF.
7. Is it true that Stoltz is a repressed homosexual?
Yes, he's a self-loathing homosexual. He's still very much in the closet.
8. Wasn't he married once?
Yes, he was. His wife left him for another man. He likes to tell people
that he doesn't understand why she left him, but then conveniently forgets
to tell them that he is gay. His wife came home one day and found him in
bed with another man.
9. What's this story that he claims that Yogananda is accelerating his
karma?
Yeah, he likes to claim that a lot of bad things have happened to him
because Yogananda is helping him to work out his karma faster.
10. Like what kinds of things?
Like saying that they broke into his apartment and into his car several
times. But he conveniently forgets to tell people that he is such a loser
that he actually leaves them unlocked and does not take proper security
measures. He also claims that he is dirt poor and has been wearing the
same clothes for five years because Yogananda is trying to teach him a
lesson. He also alleges that he was held up at gunpoint while innocently
walking down the street, but he conveniently forgets to say that it was
because he was cruising for sex and trying to pick up men on the street and
some of them didn't take too kindly to a queer making passes at them.
11. Wow, sounds like a really messed up loser! Is that why he's such a
snake?
Yep, he's FUBAR. He has pissed off just about everyone offline and
online, so most people treat him like the snake he is. Then when he can't
stand up for himself, he has to recruit others to defend him. Other losers
like himself, of course. He sits at home in the dark in front of his
computer firing off e-mails to newsgroup and forum participants making up
stories that other people are out to get him in order to drum up support
and sympathy. Then, the other losers believe him and come out in his
defense like good little soldiers. The poor morons don't even know what a
fucked up nut they're getting involved with. As a result, they end up
looking as clueless and fucked up as Stoltz himself.
12. Will Stoltz ever realize what a sad, pathetic loser he is and give up
trying to impress others with his retarded posts or his delusions that
Yogananda communicates with him?
Highly unlikely. He's pretty far gone, completely swallowed up by
delusion. His dementia is in the advanced stages, and doctors have pretty
much given up on him. That's why he's been put in the same padded cell
with his buddy Nojdw down at the insane asylum (see the Nojdw FAQ).
majicalex
when I finally left I wallowed around for years thinking I should maybe "GO
TO INDIA" and find a reclusive Babaji saint to take "Real Initation" from. I
never did..I knew people, friends of mine who did .....some got completely
into it whereas others ran like lightning back into "Maya" back to where
they could be ordinary people! So for myself I chose to be a little more
ordinary a little more "Open To New Ideas and Perceptions"
I think it would good for you to read Satyeswarananda Baba he will give you
some interesting info on your Kriya background! For Sure..just be careful
about jumping into another Guru relationship so quickly after just coming
out from a long one which did not pan out for you...give youself a
break..who knows you might become enlightened during the break!
But I do think you should most definitly look into other paths and
philosophies other than Kriya (Not that Kriya is wrong , I like Kriya in
fact) but you don't want to become lopsided with "Oneway Vision" and believe
it or not you have it no matter how cool you think you are , no matter how
far away you live away from the "Temple" if you are "Lopsided with Onesided
Vision" you are in an unhealthy state because "Onesided Vision" is
Exaggerated by each and every group..
RA RA RA! GO TEAM GO WE ARE THE BEST!!
IT ALL COMES FROM EGO! ....
Being in an organization that focus's on one certain path can give you
tunnell vision...it would be of great benefit to expand your studies in
other paths ..Yoga, Buddhism, Nietzche even read about the Beatles and other
things you have not allowed yourself to if what I say pertains to your
situation!
Smoke a little pot.... I'm not saying take it up as a lifestyle but after
being inside an institution of any sort..the release it can give you can be
beneficial. Just a little bit if your so inclined and go out and be with
nature or listen to some groovy music. In fact music in itself will be a
great healer for you. Losen up a bit my friend and give yourself a break and
live a little and find out who YOU are...you have spent years following
someone else's ideals and being the way the group wanted you to be. Even if
you were independent you were still affected by the group because that was
the "Tribe you chose after leaving the tribe you were born into" and to move
beyond that "Tribe" is not easy my friend! But you can do it. Again I say
take time for yourself, allow yourself to be free from the dogma for a while
and look into other philosophies even if you differ with them..read novels!
Play a musical instument...dance! Go to movies..go out on a date!
But if you are used to speaking with a certain "SRF" slang and if you have a
Sanskrit name they gave you ..no matter how "Exotic" it sounds..DROP IT!
Going back to being a simple seeker of truth is so much more alive and free
than being locked into any one path that claims themselves to be the
highest..and they all do!
hope this helps
majic
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
> Just as no one can be absolutely sure then that the Kriya Yoga that
> Yogananda taught has anything to do with that taught by Babaji.
>
True, but that is of course, if one has not actually seen Babaji. I
have no doubt that you've ever spoken to Him.
> If you really think you've had personal experiences with Babaji,
there's a
> bridge I'd like to sell you......
>
Nothing you have to say could compare to an experience like that.
> Unlike you, I never make claims of having supernatural powers.
In other words, your hot air isn't backed up with any real substance,
right ? That is totally obvious to me.
> Oh, I have an idea of what kind of relationship you have with
Yogananda.
That is obvious to me, in more ways than one.
> Let's just say that people who make similar claims to yours are
usually
> locked up in nuthouses.
>
That's precisely what Sri Lahiri Mahasaya's friends said to Him when he
returned from His experience in that castle in the himalayas.
> Which is not to say that I'm questioning the ability of some to
communicate
> with beings on other planes. Not at all. I fully believe in that.
Through practice of Yogananda's SRF Kriya initiation, that is no longer
a belief for me, and I thought a few people on this newsgroup would
benefit from hearing a success story like that, from an ordinary non-
monastic .....
Of course, you are supposedly above these things ....
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
> Shitz, if you'd get your head out of your ass for one moment
(difficult
> though that is for you) you might realize that the same can be said
about
> Yogananda. He taught Kriya from his own point of view. Its 'merely a
> matter of belief to those who read the book' [Autobiography of a Yogi,
> Lessons, etc.]
>
> I know its difficult for you SRF True Believers (tm) to understand....
Jivass, if you'd get *YOUR* head out of your ass, you'd realize that I
already admitted that as a logical possibility in my first article.
(Of course, my experience has enabled me to eliminate that as a
possibility .....)
Steven M. Stoltz
> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay, and also discusses the
> modifications made by Yogananda. It is available from:
Sri Lahiri Mahasaya entered mahasamadhi long ago. Thus, the Kriya
spoken of above is not currently taught by Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, it is
taught by someone known as Swami Satyeswarananda Giri. Who knows what
connection exists between these two people ...
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <i8rrjsoahpbkr8cms...@4ax.com>,
> Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
>
>> Just as no one can be absolutely sure then that the Kriya Yoga that
>> Yogananda taught has anything to do with that taught by Babaji.
>>
>
>True, but that is of course, if one has not actually seen Babaji. I
>have no doubt that you've ever spoken to Him.
As usual, your delusion is so all-encompassing that you cannot even follow
up with a proper argument.
Of course, considering that you think that you've actually seen Babaji,
everything else is pretty much pointless. As I've told you before, if you
really had the supernatural powers that you claim, you would not be
discussing them here.
>> If you really think you've had personal experiences with Babaji,
>there's a
>> bridge I'd like to sell you......
>>
>
>Nothing you have to say could compare to an experience like that.
Of course not. In your maya-permeated mind, you've seen and conversed with
Yogananda and Babaji. How could anything else compare with a delusion like
that?
>> Unlike you, I never make claims of having supernatural powers.
>
>
>In other words, your hot air isn't backed up with any real substance,
>right ? That is totally obvious to me.
Again, you're clueless as usual. *YOU* are the only individual who has
ever claimed to have supernatural powers. As I do not make such claims, I
do not have to substantiate them. You, on the other hand, have yet to
prove and substantiate these alleged powers that you have.
>> Oh, I have an idea of what kind of relationship you have with
>Yogananda.
>
>That is obvious to me, in more ways than one.
Again, totally clueless response. What's new....
>> Let's just say that people who make similar claims to yours are
>usually
>> locked up in nuthouses.
>>
>
>That's precisely what Sri Lahiri Mahasaya's friends said to Him when he
>returned from His experience in that castle in the himalayas.
Great. Now you're comparing yourself to Lahiri Mahasaya. Why am I not
surprised. Next you're going to claim that you're Jesus Christ, or
Krishna, I suppose....
>> Which is not to say that I'm questioning the ability of some to
>communicate
>> with beings on other planes. Not at all. I fully believe in that.
>
>Through practice of Yogananda's SRF Kriya initiation, that is no longer
>a belief for me, and I thought a few people on this newsgroup would
>benefit from hearing a success story like that, from an ordinary non-
>monastic .....
Materialize yourself in front me and then we'll discuss spiritual success
stories....
>Of course, you are supposedly above these things ....
>
>Stoltz
Again, a claim which you have made up. I have never claimed to have any
such powers. But you have.
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <8hi3ce$bab$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> baru...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
>> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay, and also discusses the
>> modifications made by Yogananda. It is available from:
>
>Sri Lahiri Mahasaya entered mahasamadhi long ago. Thus, the Kriya
>spoken of above is not currently taught by Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, it is
>taught by someone known as Swami Satyeswarananda Giri.
It is also taught by many who are in the lineage of disciples of Lahiri
Mahasaya.
And I doubt Satyeswarananda teaches anything directly from Lahiri, since
his guru was Babaji. He never met Lahiri Mahasaya. It'd be kind of
difficult to have known Lahiri personally and still be alive today.
>Who knows what
>connection exists between these two people ...
>
>Stoltz
For someone who has scolded others innumerable times for their so-called
sectarianism, you can certainly be as sectarian as the best of them. Your
statement above is more arrogant and sectarian than any of the ones you've
criticized.
willybilly
>
> In article <39371CE5...@enchan.ted>,
> Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> > After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
> way
> it
> > isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> > organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
> Kriya.
> > But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> > India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > Disenchanted
>
> How do you expect the Master's to help you with that kind of attitude??
>
hendr...@my-deja.com
the same when I gave up SRF half a year ago.
After all Yogananda is a dead master, and don't
see any evidence that there is a secret bond
bestowed at initiation, except a not so secret
one for those perhaps who believe so or feel a
special attraction for this master.
This may be a bitter pill to swallow for some who
after some years find their believes scattered to
pieces, but this insight can also be very
wholesome and personally I find it very
comforting.
To follow a specter may not necessarily be a help
for spiritual progress.
After having left SRF, I can honestly say that
this was a great help and freed me from many
delusions about spiritual life. For me it was a
one-way street and I would have get stuck at the
same spot forever. For others it may be different.
I cannot recommend leaving SRF nor staying there;
it depends on each person. The only thing I am
saying is that spiritual baptism at SRF is the
same kind of hogwash as baptism in a church. A
symbolical ceremony, and that's it, friends.
Hendrik
yogau...@hotmail.com
yogau...@hotmail.com
Fred Hageman
>No idea whether this post is a hoax, but I felt
>the same when I gave up SRF half a year ago.
Were you a kriyaban? If not, no biggie. If yes, lots of luck. As we
all know, karma can be *such* a bitch. Gave up the guru after taking a
loyalty oath. Ouch.
>After all Yogananda is a dead master, and don't
>see any evidence that there is a secret bond
>bestowed at initiation, except a not so secret
>one for those perhaps who believe so or feel a
>special attraction for this master.
A dead master? Just like Jesus, eh? You didn't really understand what
a master was/is, eh? Look at what so many disciples of Christ gained
by their attunement with the dead master. Look at what those disciples
who came after Master became a dead master have achieved. Premamoy,
Turiyananda, Anhilanda, etc. What were they *thinking*? Guess they are
all fakes, eh?
>This may be a bitter pill to swallow for some who
>after some years find their believes scattered to
>pieces, but this insight can also be very
>wholesome and personally I find it very
>comforting.
What, exactly, is comforting about it? Wholesome? What succor do you
gain from knowing that you broke rule number one in the path to God?
Loyalty is the highest law.
>To follow a specter may not necessarily be a help
>for spiritual progress.
A specter? You weren't paying attention to what was laid at your feet.
You missed the boat entirely.
>After having left SRF, I can honestly say that
>this was a great help and freed me from many
>delusions about spiritual life.
Looks like you clung fast and hard to the deepest delusions.
For me it was a
>one-way street and I would have get stuck at the
>same spot forever. For others it may be different.
Well, you had the ball and dropped it. You may not be stuck at the
same spot forever, but you are likely to be there for a long time.
"Oh, I got tired of following a dead master, who needs a specter, or
this one way street?" Sheesh.
>I cannot recommend leaving SRF nor staying there;
>it depends on each person. The only thing I am
>saying is that spiritual baptism at SRF is the
>same kind of hogwash as baptism in a church. A
>symbolical ceremony, and that's it, friends.
There isn't anything symbolic about it. I remember at one ceremony,
Dharmananda, SRF's resident wise-ass, was speaking of just how it
wasn't symbolic. He explained what it meant and was. Then, in his
witty way, tossed in, "But, hey, if you don't want it, (the blessing)
don't worry, we'll take it."
Reevaluate, Hendric. You missed a lot the first time around.
Fred
Fred Hageman
<maji...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I think it would good for you to read Satyeswarananda Baba he will give you
>some interesting info on your Kriya background! For Sure..just be careful
>about jumping into another Guru relationship so quickly after just coming
>out from a long one which did not pan out for you...give youself a
>break..who knows you might become enlightened during the break!
What is this about? One doesn't jump from gury to guru. The
relationship is eternal. It's the most precious gift we get in a
lifetime. To be so ungrateful that you got it once and, for whatever
dissatisfication thought it wasn't good enough, seems the height of
error.
>But I do think you should most definitly look into other paths and
>philosophies other than Kriya (Not that Kriya is wrong , I like Kriya in
>fact) but you don't want to become lopsided with "Oneway Vision" and believe
>it or not you have it no matter how cool you think you are , no matter how
>far away you live away from the "Temple" if you are "Lopsided with Onesided
>Vision" you are in an unhealthy state because "Onesided Vision" is
>Exaggerated by each and every group..
Hey, look into any and all paths when you are in your investigatory
phase. This is good advice. But, after you have you have chosen to
become a devotee of a true guru, following the same advice will only
lead to heartbreak over and again. Loyalty is the highest law. It
isn't a matter of oneway vision. It isn't dogmatic at all. All roads
lead to Rome, but if you ever hope to get there, you better take the
one that starts at your doorstep and goes to Rome. When you enter the
guru-disciple relationship, you have chosen the road. Just keep
walking and get there, bumps in the road and all.
Many teachings may say they are the only one, and certainly this was a
major shortcoming with ISKON, but not every group states such.
Yogananda often directed certain devotees to other paths and told them
that he was not their guru. SRF will do the same if such advice is
warranted.
>RA RA RA! GO TEAM GO WE ARE THE BEST!!
>IT ALL COMES FROM EGO! ....
No it doesn't. Most comes from ego, but a true guru and a true path,
well, it don't work that way.
>Being in an organization that focus's on one certain path can give you
>tunnell vision...
or clarity.
>it would be of great benefit to expand your studies in
>other paths ..Yoga, Buddhism, Nietzche even read about the Beatles and other
>things you have not allowed yourself to if what I say pertains to your
>situation!
Read, read, read. But if you are a disciple of a true guru, all the
reading is compared to the benchmark of the teachings you have been
given. A way of finding similarities and differences, yes, a way of
improving what you have, no. (But, this is assuming you did the
requisite investigation *before* signing up for the guru-disciple
relationship, and assuming you signed up with a true guru.)
>Smoke a little pot.... I'm not saying take it up as a lifestyle but after
>being inside an institution of any sort..the release it can give you can be
>beneficial.
Oh, please. And I've smoked a ton of pot, and still do smoke. But I am
not kidding myself that it is of any true worth. I know I am slumming
when I do so, but haven't yet overcome the desire to do such slumming.
My karma, my price to pay.
> Just a little bit if your so inclined and go out and be with
>nature or listen to some groovy music. In fact music in itself will be a
>great healer for you.
Again, I am a total fan of "groovy music," but, as much as I listen to
it, (and am doing so presently) I cannot delude myself to believe that
it comes within the same zipcode of healing that happens when I am
doing my sadhana with regularity and zeal. Most of the time, when I am
deep into the "groovy" music, I'm just hiding. Much as I hate to admit
it, since I love music so. Still I *am* hiding.
>Losen up a bit my friend and give yourself a break and
>live a little and find out who YOU are...you have spent years following
>someone else's ideals and being the way the group wanted you to be.
Who are you? A central question. Ramana Maharshi's favorite. If you've
spent years following someone else's ideas and being the way the group
wanted you to be, you picked the wrong group to start with. Look
higher.
>Even if
>you were independent you were still affected by the group because that was
>the "Tribe you chose after leaving the tribe you were born into" and to move
>beyond that "Tribe" is not easy my friend!
This makes good sense. The secondary tribes we choose are our choices,
something we don't get initially.
>But you can do it. Again I say
>take time for yourself, allow yourself to be free from the dogma
This is good advice, but it doesn't apply to SRF, unless you take
"just meditate," as a dogma, which is their "dogma."
>for a while
>and look into other philosophies even if you differ with them..read novels!
>Play a musical instument...dance! Go to movies..go out on a date!
>But if you are used to speaking with a certain "SRF" slang and if you have a
>Sanskrit name they gave you
They don't give sanskrit names to layfolk. Ain't there way.
> ..no matter how "Exotic" it sounds..DROP IT!
Well, the shouting is nice, but it doesn't apply. They don't give
sanskrit names. Sorry.
>Going back to being a simple seeker of truth is so much more alive and free
>than being locked into any one path that claims themselves to be the
>highest..and they all do!
No, they all don't. SRF doesn't claim to be the only thing of
anything, except for the place to learn kriya and have the
guru-disciple relationship with Yogananda. They don't disuage anyone
from following any path. And, as for being a simple seeker of truth,
yeah that's good in the initial stages. After that, it's time to get
on a path and follow it. That's what a path is, a way to go from here
to there. Where do you want to go today?, as Bill's pals have said
again and again.
A real path only states that if you are one of us, as in this is your
proclivity, we will help you get home. If you aren't one of us, go to
where you will be happy and get home. If you don't go our way, you
will go to hell, is the message of the dogmatist. If you don't go our
way, go somewhere else to get to the same place, is the message of a
real path.
Fred
Sri Brahman-Atmananda Paramahansa
cres...@yahoo.com (Fred Hageman) wrote:
>>After all Yogananda is a dead master, and don't
>>see any evidence that there is a secret bond
>>bestowed at initiation, except a not so secret
>>one for those perhaps who believe so or feel a
>>special attraction for this master.
>
>A dead master? Just like Jesus, eh? You didn't really
understand what
>a master was/is, eh? Look at what so many disciples of Christ
gained
>by their attunement with the dead master.
The Lord Christ was RESURRECTED while Yogananda stayed in the
grave and rot. I bet he now stinks ten times your
shit, Fred.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
devo...@my-deja.com
not- I would like to clear up your confusion over a 'dead master'. Do
you really think that a Master is in his body? I laughed out loud when I
read the phrase 'dead master' in your post.
There is an enlightening story along these lines regarding Brother
Turiyananda, the SRF monk who passed away a few years ago. Before he
became a disciple of Yogananda, he met Swami Ramdas (the Indian, also
known as Papa Ramdas). He was very drawn to Ramdas, and asked if Ramdas
would be his guru. Ramdas said, 'No, Yogananda is your guru.'
Turiyananda stammered, 'But, Yogananda's dead!'
Ramdas enlightening reply was, 'No, you're dead. Yogananda's alive!'
Well, I think you get the idea, Hendrik.
> After all Yogananda is a dead master, and don't
> see any evidence that there is a secret bond
> bestowed at initiation, except a not so secret
> one for those perhaps who believe so or feel a
> special attraction for this master.
P. Blauw
Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote in message
news:19srjssj9hgk9uf84...@4ax.com...
> 1. Who is Steven M. Stoltz?
> 3. Is Stoltz a Kriyaban?
>... he received the second Kriya.
There are 7 major Kriya's. None of them too difficult exept to understand
them.
> 4. What is Stoltz's obsession with Brahman-Atmananda?
No true yogi is jealous...
> 5. What is Atmananda's vendetta against Stoltz?
> 6. Why are both so hated by all?
Not by me. We are all the same - God's children.
Taking wrong for right, light for dark etc. . .?
yogau...@hotmail.com
of life like anyone else down here.
Now he is dead and if indeed something of him continues to exist on
another plane, his connection to our world however is cut off, and only
those people who by nature feel a strong attraction to his spirit (like
the one you quoted) can make use of his invisible presence, if they
really feel it. For the other 98% he is just a living myth like Jesus
and this myth can only be of limited use for spiritual life.
If Yogananda isn't dead then please someone show him to me and make him
live here as a human being again for an extended period of time.
The blueprint of him that remains in the memory of some people or in
the ether is different from the presence of a being living on the
material plane. Those who are already very close to a person, may be
even more close after his death, the relation may become more inwardly,
not depending on physical mediators anymore, but those who didn't have
any contact beforehand won't attain much of it afterwards. And how
should they? People like Turiyananda are exceptions, not the rule.
Likewise, many people tell me they "speak with Jesus". But I can't see
any development in them at all; instead of progression it seems to be a
matter of perpetually remaining at the same spot. Christianity has
become in the first place a means for self-gratification, to ensure
oneself of what one thinks to be, with the hope to be 'saved' by an
outside imaginary force, and many devotees of SRF are, in my humble
opinion, rather Christians than people looking for realizing the truth
in themselves. Focussing on an imaginary saviour is an element of
belief and religion, and not of yoga, which is about realization.
Hendrik
devo...@my-deja.com
Indeed they are- few have the openness and receptivity to receive an
Avatar like Yogananda into their lives. But the limiting factor is in
us, not Yogananda. A Master is omnipresent, 'alive'. Until we acheive
that, we're 'dead'. That's the meaning of that story.
yogau...@hotmail.com
> Indeed they are- few have the openness and receptivity to receive an
> Avatar like Yogananda into their lives. But the limiting factor is in
> us, not Yogananda. A Master is omnipresent, 'alive'. Until we acheive
> that, we're 'dead'. That's the meaning of that story.
Sorry, but I am unable to see an "Avatar" in Yogananda. I wonder where
this idea comes from.
I believe that originates with Yogananda himself; he was much convinced
of his own greatness and gave subtle hints to Bro. Anandamoy and
perhaps others that he was an "Avatar", probably to back up his
position as top guru and make people believe in him. Still he was not
able to throw no shadow as he said an Avatar would and just smiled.
A "bluffer" I call this, not very convincing.
He was a spiritual master, it took him almost all his life to realize
his spiritual goal and had to work for this same as non-"Avatars", and
he had serious shortcomings as a person, as has been reported several
times now. His intuition was also not infallible.
So why "Avatar"? And why "receive him into their lives"? One of the big
problems of religion is the duality religious people like to build up
between "common men" and "masters" although there is so much in
between. I am still convinced that Yogananda was a master, but with
each bad news about him it becomes harder to believe that he was.
I wonder whether after a few decades or so SRF and its founder will
find their place in history books as just another "new religion" like
the Hare Krishna movement or the Theosophical Society. He will rank
among celebrities like Madame Blavatsky and Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada
and feel comfortable there.
If we concede that an Avatar is someone with a divine mission, then it
is not sure that Yogananda was an Avatar more than Joseph Smith the
founder of the Mormons. Kriya Yoga he didn't invent either, and nothing
else worthwhile, he just mixed up traditions and changed and watered
down traditions that he got from his various teachers and gurus - I
believe he had at least six of them.
All this is good and fine, but almost exclusively for American
Protestant enthusiasts, and to a lesser degree for a certain kind of
emotional people worldwide who can't think for themselves. If he had a
mission it was limited in scope with the main end of pepping up
orthodox Protestantism a bit, and make Kriya Yoga popular, which he
achieved. Apart from that, of course, his life-work in the long run is
doomed to fail as Christianity failed.
Yoga has to be done by ourselves, and the master is just there to
supervise our sadhana and give some help when necessary. Ramakrishna
tried to do the sadhana for one of his disciples, but the experiment
failed.
As long as we make others responsible for our spiritual well-being, we
will never pass the mark.
Hendrik
Disenchanted
appreciated. Yes my dilemma is for real, my post was not a hoax. After
all these years in SRF I've begun seeing a whole new side of it. Others
kept telling me, but I would not listen. I kept shutting them out,
telling them SRF and my guru were perfect. Family and friends warned me
that I was in a cult, and I should ge out. But I turned a deaf ear. I
ridiculed them, told them what do stupid Christians know, Yogananda is
the only one who knows the real Christianity. I joined SRF when I was
young, fresh out of college. I got caught up in the furor of
Yogananda. His autobiography was so full of miracles, and he kept
telling how divine mother got him out of trouble all the time, she fed
him and gave him money when he was penniless in Brindaban, the
miraculous way he met his guru, the amulet, the visions, how God looked
after him in everything, got him out of every hardship. If he lost his
way in the forest, God showed him the way. God helped him pass his
exams, helped him graduate, told him to go to America, where he became
famous, etc. I got caught up in that and believed it like an idiot. I
blindly believed every single thing Yogananda said. I believed him that
God looks after his devotees. So I started practicing all the SRF
techniques and Kriya Yoga. All that stuff takes an awful lot of time.
So I stopped seeing my friends and my family. I didn't have time for
them, I was a devotee, all my time was supposed to be for God. They
wanted me to work extra time at work, but I couldn't, I had to go home
and do Aum technique, and Hongsau technique, and Energization technique,
and then practice Kriya. All my coworkers advanced and got promotions
and higher pay, got married, had kids, but I stayed stuck in my job,
going nowhere, because Yogananda said God was more important. Then I
left everything behind and moved clear across the country to Los Angeles
to be closer to SRF and other devotees and attend temple. My family
asked me not to move away, not to leave them, but I didn't listen. No.
God was more important. My guru was more important. He would show me
God. God would give me everything. He wouldn't let me fall. "Seek
first the kingdom of God and all things shall be added unto you." So I
neglected my family and my career for God, guru, and Kriya practice. I
no longer had any friends, I had lost them all already because I was too
busy being a devotee and practicing kriya. So the years went by. and
what happened? Now I'm middle aged, lost my house, my job, my family,
my friends. What do I have left? Nothing. They fired me from work
five years ago because I was too busy being a good devotee and
practicing all the SRF techniques to keep up with the demanding schedule
at work and get ahead like my peers. So I became depressed after I lost
my job and stayed home for five years, living off my savings, until the
money was gone. I lost the house and went into debt. Haven't seen or
spoken to my family in years. And where is God? Where is guru? All
those SRF tapes I bought where Sri Daya Mata said only love matters
nothing else. But nobody wants to love you when you have no money, no
job, no success, nothing. What about all those other SRF people who
were supposed to be so supportive? Well they're too busy building
worshipping the personalities of Yogananda and Sri Daya Mata to notice
someone who is alone and no one loves him. And what about God who was
supposed to look after his devotee. Where was he when they fired me for
going home afte work to practice Kriya instead of working overtime in
the evenings and on weekends at the office? Or when I lost my house?
Or my money? I was so busy loving God I didn't notice I was falling of
a cliff. And where was Master who was supposed to catch you in his
lap? I fell on the hard stone and broke every bone in my body.
Now I must think about whether I want to continue living or end this
nightmare once and for all. First step will be to disassociate myself
from the SRF and start deprogramming myself. It won't be easy, after so
many years of brainwashing. I have to start all over again, start work
from the bottom, while most people my age are at the managerial level,
I'll be working at some entry-level position, IF I'm lucky. I mean,
who's going to hire someone who stayed home depressed for five years? I
have to start building a relationship with my family again. If they'll
even talk to me after what I did to them. Right now everything looks
pretty miserable. Where's God and guru now? Where's Divine mother to
take care of me like she did Yogananda when he was penniless in
Brindaban? I've bought some books on how to take one's own life
successfully without making too much of a big mess or failing and then
having to spend the rest of one's life being ridiculed, or worse
crippled, so if things don't work out and I can't success at getting my
life together again after this horrible experience, I'll probably end up
going into mahasamadhi. It just won't be the yoga kind.
swift
Is this you?
love,
swift
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote in message
news:3941C508...@enchan.ted...
grail...@ntsource.comnojunk
"Where's Divine Mother to take care of me like she did
Yogananda when he was penniless in Brindaban?"
Disenchanted,
I saw your post in alt.zen and thought I would reply. I am also
sending you a copy of this post, although it looks to me like
your email address is bogus, so I am not sure that every thing
you write is the truth of your experience or not. I do understand
that there are those out there who wish to discredit certain
organizations.
But assuming that you have not lied and told the truth of
your story/situation, I would like to respond to some of your
words.
Divine Mother *is* always with you. If She were not, you would
not even be able to draw one single breath nor sustain your
bodily functions/life. When people get together to organize,
there is always, I feel, a change in the vibration and even
maybe a distortion of the original teacher's teachings. Please
realize there is a difference between a spiritual teacher
and a yogi. If you wish to understand this more deeply,
please check out the book "Tapas Shakti" which can be obtained
from Tom Palotas (http://www.shiva.org).
There are teachers and then there are those who are the
Living Presence. Many years ago I took some lessons from SRF
but they were just too much for me to follow at the time--
there were many things going on in my life and many difficulties
and stresses, so I did not keep up with them, but I did
feel that Yogananda's heart was with God. And I do believe
his story. But you cannot compare yourself or your life's
lessons with another, each one has his path. I was very
sorry to learn how you forsook your family/relatives and
job to seek God. God *does* take care of His devotees,
it may just not be the type of caring you want or demand.
(or perhaps you misunderstood your own responsibilities
and thought you no longer had to be responsible for
earning a living, etc.) Even monks who live in monasteries
must work and do seva (service), clean. Even Catholic monks
work and grow vineyards to make wine and sell it, etc.
Work is part of sadhana.
You sound very angry and embittered and perhaps your
idea of the 'kingdom of God' was simply praying/meditating/
practicing SRF suggestions without keeping your dharma
duty (working as a householder, supporting a family and
going for a job). I do not know you and your situation,
only from what you shared in your post. You asked, what
do you do now--I suggest, if possible, you have darshan
with Karunamayi if She is in your area (please
check http://www.karunamayi.org) as right now She is
doing Her once a year tour here in the U.S. (that is, if
you live in the U.S.--I am supposing that you do).
Also helpful may be for you to check out these websites:
http://www.babalokenath.org
http://www.shreemaa.org
http://ammachi.org
I believe it says in the material by/about Baba Lokenath that
a true seeker always finds a true Master. You might also check out
books on Ramana Maharshi, who recommended Self-Inquiry (asking
continually throughout the day, 'Who Am I?') Ramana Maharshi
was a sage from India who told Karunamayi's mother that she
would give birth to a divine child.
I also might recommend some of the books which contain
lectures by (Sufi Master) Hazrat Inayat Khan who I consider
also as one of the teachers of my heart who said something
to the effect, that one thing is a preparation for another.
For some reason you had to go through this experience, as
disappointing as it might have been. Many of the great ones
speak of tests and tribulations and from what I understand,
when one embarks consciously on the spiritual path, things
can get pretty rough. Trials abound it seems to either
strengthen us, build us up inside, or test the faith, etc.
Really, I recommend you go to the Living Presence of
Amma (Karunamayi--which means 'Compassionate Mother'). Let
Her dry your tears in person, that is my suggestion to you
if you want it. Please feel free to email me privately if
you wish to talk further.
Kathy
Note: to email me, remove the '3' and the 'nojunk'
--
grail...@ntsource.comnojunk
"Kathy, is this you?"
No, Swift, it is not me. Just a few minutes before I read your
post inquiring, I had already answered Disenchanged with a public
post. But I do understand how organizations have a lot of
people following a spiritual teacher and put their own bent onto
things, which *do* change the vibrations. Especially if money
is involved, etc. In reading some of the material by the
Swami Steven Lightfoot used to go to (there are names of books
and these are probably still available from him), it is mentioned
that the teachings of the SRF are not the original Kriya that
Lahira Mahasaya taught, and I think someone told me that
changes were even made in the original book that Yogananda
wrote. Knowing myself what 'organizations' can do, I don't
doubt that there may be some truth to this. However,
if Disenchanted's devotion is pure, I know s/he will be
led to the right teacher at the right time.
A very great being, Amma Anasuya Devi (who was known as
the Jillelumudi Mother from India, no longer in the body)
once said that we must go through that which is ordained and
cannot escape it. For some reason, Disenchanted had to
go through this experience and will undoubtedly understand
at a later point in his/her life why it may have been necessary.
When one speaks about going through the fires, I think
there is truth to it.
dyas'^kr
Elin Entchev
> > Avatar like Yogananda into their lives. But the limiting factor is in
> > us, not Yogananda. A Master is omnipresent, 'alive'. Until we acheive
> > that, we're 'dead'. That's the meaning of that story.
>
> Sorry, but I am unable to see an "Avatar" in Yogananda. I wonder where
> this idea comes from.
>
> I believe that originates with Yogananda himself; he was much convinced
> of his own greatness and gave subtle hints to Bro. Anandamoy and
> perhaps others that he was an "Avatar", probably to back up his
> position as top guru and make people believe in him. Still he was not
> able to throw no shadow as he said an Avatar would and just smiled.
> A "bluffer" I call this, not very convincing.
>
> He was a spiritual master, it took him almost all his life to realize
> his spiritual goal and had to work for this same as non-"Avatars", and
> he had serious shortcomings as a person, as has been reported several
> times now. His intuition was also not infallible.
>
> So why "Avatar"? And why "receive him into their lives"? One of the big
> problems of religion is the duality religious people like to build up
> between "common men" and "masters" although there is so much in
> between. I am still convinced that Yogananda was a master, but with
> each bad news about him it becomes harder to believe that he was.
Actually, there are three distinctive levels: "common people" (who are just
born again and again - punar dganma), avatars (who reincarnate - avatara)
and apta kama (divinly born - divia dganma). Many people (including you)
make the mistake to think about the avatars as they are "apta kama".
Apta Kama are these ones who have achieved the ultimate goal - unity with
GOD. They are above the life-death cicle and do not have any karma. They are
immortal and they quit their bodies when they want. According, to Yoga-sutra
they can just make a new body and mind when they have a divine mission and
want to return to the material world. Apta kama are very few and blessed are
the people who are near them even for few moments.
Avatars (they are not re-born but reincarnated in a process called
"avatara") - they are people who are halfway to GOD. They have advanced a
lot but still have to "walk" more. Of course they are worth following by
"common people". However, they are not perfect, they are not apta kama! They
can help you a lot, even though they have shortcomings, trow shadows and
their intuitions are not completely "infallible". They still deserve all our
respect.
> All this is good and fine, but almost exclusively for American
> Protestant enthusiasts, and to a lesser degree for a certain kind of
> emotional people worldwide who can't think for themselves. If he had a
> mission it was limited in scope with the main end of pepping up
> orthodox Protestantism a bit, and make Kriya Yoga popular, which he
> achieved. Apart from that, of course, his life-work in the long run is
> doomed to fail as Christianity failed.
Christianity has not failed! All that failed are the anti-christs methods of
the once corrupted by power and money Catholic church (such as the crusades
and the inquisition that do not have anything in common with Christianity
and are actually opposite to it). Christianity still remains the truest
religion for me and many other people.
Elin
P.S. There may be slight differences in the English transcription of the
terms I've used.
BuddhaBaby
>"I agree that Kathy's heart is usually in the right place, but
>this talk of her being in league with Jetsumman's is news
>for me, and if true -- well, that demands that her spiritual
>recommendations be subjected to scrutiny!"
>
>
>
>BuddhaBaby,
>
>What DT failed to tell you was that I have already said
>publically a number of times (you must have missed it),
I'd guess yer admissions were made on alt.zen which I don't read (oh,
how spiritually deprived I must be, LOL!), or some ng other than trb...
>that
>I felt very badly to learn that there was a use of toxic
>materials in the creation of the PadmaSambhava statues that
>were offered, (...)
I'm sure you genuinely do. :-) Anyone who willingly helps out in
hospice care is unlikely to ever have a heart of stone. Your kindness
and consideration are quite evident in everything you write. Even DT
admits this!
>DT is intent on stirring up trouble and gossip that
>is not true.
So what's new? ;-)
We all know that da Troll takes on this tack whenever he tires of
writing sober and intelligent posts. It's no secret that he is a closet
masochist, and the motives behind his baseless, gossipy posts are: to
make us angry and retaliate with insults like "f*cking idiot" - verbal
abuse which he perversely loves to revel in.
Don't give him this satisfaction! The best response we can adopt is: to
ignore his baits, and instead, generate thoughts of loving-kindness
towards him. Dyeing one's locks in a color other than blonde helps too,
imho.
[the rest of yer excellent, lucid reply snipped]
Cheers!
BBaby
devo...@my-deja.com
>
> Sorry, but I am unable to see an "Avatar" in Yogananda. I wonder where
> this idea comes from.
Because many have seen him, after he left his body. I know some of
those- one in particular who had a divine healing. I've also seen his
power in my own life, miraculously helping me through some extreme and
unusual situations.
Whether he is an avatar or not- I'm quite happy with my choice of
receiving Yogananda's power into my life. And whether you make that
choice or not- that doesn't change who and what Yogananda is.
>
> I believe that originates with Yogananda himself; he was much
convinced
> of his own greatness and gave subtle hints to Bro. Anandamoy and
> perhaps others that he was an "Avatar", probably to back up his
> position as top guru and make people believe in him. Still he was not
> able to throw no shadow as he said an Avatar would and just smiled.
> A "bluffer" I call this, not very convincing.
>
> He was a spiritual master, it took him almost all his life to realize
> his spiritual goal and had to work for this same as non-"Avatars", and
> he had serious shortcomings as a person, as has been reported several
> times now. His intuition was also not infallible.
>
> So why "Avatar"? And why "receive him into their lives"? One of the
big
> problems of religion is the duality religious people like to build up
> between "common men" and "masters" although there is so much in
> between. I am still convinced that Yogananda was a master, but with
> each bad news about him it becomes harder to believe that he was.
The nay-sayers love cutting the Christs and Yoganandas down to size. It
means that they don't have to try as hard for enlightenment. It 'lowers
the bar' that they have to jump over. But it doesn't change who they
are.
>
> I wonder whether after a few decades or so SRF and its founder will
> find their place in history books as just another "new religion" like
> the Hare Krishna movement or the Theosophical Society. He will rank
> among celebrities like Madame Blavatsky and Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada
> and feel comfortable there.
>
> If we concede that an Avatar is someone with a divine mission, then it
> is not sure that Yogananda was an Avatar more than Joseph Smith the
> founder of the Mormons. Kriya Yoga he didn't invent either, and
nothing
> else worthwhile, he just mixed up traditions and changed and watered
> down traditions that he got from his various teachers and gurus - I
> believe he had at least six of them.
>
> All this is good and fine, but almost exclusively for American
> Protestant enthusiasts, and to a lesser degree for a certain kind of
> emotional people worldwide who can't think for themselves. If he had a
> mission it was limited in scope with the main end of pepping up
> orthodox Protestantism a bit, and make Kriya Yoga popular, which he
> achieved. Apart from that, of course, his life-work in the long run is
> doomed to fail as Christianity failed.
>
> Yoga has to be done by ourselves, and the master is just there to
> supervise our sadhana and give some help when necessary. Ramakrishna
> tried to do the sadhana for one of his disciples, but the experiment
> failed.
>
> As long as we make others responsible for our spiritual well-being, we
> will never pass the mark.
You're right- we can't make others completely responsible for our
spiritual well-being. We have to do our part too. But we do it with the
help of God and Guru. Read up on the meaning of the Guru-Disciple
relationship. The Guru is quite definitely not there merely 'to
supervise our sadhana'. A teacher does that. A Guru does much more.
If Yogananda is not your Guru, then why the need to cut him down to
size? Better to look for your own Guru. Or to make yourself ready for
one. 'When the disciple is ready, the Guru comes.'
Good luck, Hendrik.
>
> Hendrik
Funky Prophet _0/
news:3941C508...@enchan.ted...
There was a man who woke to find his house was burning, he went back to bed
saying "My God will protect me."
He woke again to the shouts of his neighbor, his reply "My God will protect
me."
then he went back to sleep.
He woke again to the shouts of his friend, "Friend your house is on fire,
come out."
again, he replied "My God will protect me." and went back to sleep.
He woke again to the shouts of his weeping parents who lived down the road,
"Son, your house is burning, if you stay, you will die!"
again, he replied "My God will protect me."
When he awoke again, he was before God. "My God, why did you let me die?"
God looked down and said "I sent you a good man, to warn you, I sent your
own friend, and finally, I sent your parents. It is you who did not
listen."
Disenchanted, if you know the house is burning get out.
Also, don't worry about trying to understand God, God understands you.
Funky Prophet_0/
With LOVE for all sentient beings.
Steven Lightfoot
>Thank you very much everyone who replied. Your help is greatly
>appreciated. Yes my dilemma is for real, my post was not a hoax. After
>all these years in SRF I've begun seeing a whole new side of it. Others
>kept telling me, but I would not listen. I kept shutting them out,
>telling them SRF and my guru were perfect. Family and friends warned me
>that I was in a cult, and I should ge out. But I turned a deaf ear. I
>ridiculed them, told them what do stupid Christians know, Yogananda is
>the only one who knows the real Christianity. I joined SRF when I was
>young, fresh out of college. I got caught up in the furor of
>Yogananda. His autobiography was so full of miracles, and he kept
>telling how divine mother got him out of trouble all the time, she fed
>him and gave him money when he was penniless in Brindaban, the
>miraculous way he met his guru, the amulet, the visions, how God looked
>after him in everything, got him out of every hardship. If he lost his
>way in the forest, God showed him the way. God helped him pass his
>exams, helped him graduate, told him to go to America, where he became
>famous, etc. I got caught up in that and believed it like an idiot.
If it wouldn't have been him it would have been some other idiot.
I
>blindly believed every single thing Yogananda said. I believed him that
>God looks after his devotees. So I started practicing all the SRF
>techniques and Kriya Yoga. All that stuff takes an awful lot of time.
>So I stopped seeing my friends and my family. I didn't have time for
>them, I was a devotee, all my time was supposed to be for God. They
>wanted me to work extra time at work, but I couldn't, I had to go home
>and do Aum technique, and Hongsau technique, and Energization technique,
>and then practice Kriya.
And what are these techniques, in particular? How do you know that
they are not the Original Kriya discipline?
All my coworkers advanced and got promotions
>and higher pay, got married, had kids, but I stayed stuck in my job,
>going nowhere, because Yogananda said God was more important. Then I
>left everything behind and moved clear across the country to Los Angeles
>to be closer to SRF and other devotees and attend temple. My family
>asked me not to move away, not to leave them, but I didn't listen. No.
>God was more important. My guru was more important. He would show me
>God. God would give me everything.
And He didn't show you God?
He wouldn't let me fall. "Seek
>first the kingdom of God and all things shall be added unto you." So I
>neglected my family and my career for God, guru, and Kriya practice. I
>no longer had any friends, I had lost them all already because I was too
>busy being a devotee and practicing kriya. So the years went by. and
>what happened? Now I'm middle aged, lost my house, my job, my family,
>my friends. What do I have left? Nothing.
What do you think God has, in particular?
They fired me from work
>five years ago because I was too busy being a good devotee and
>practicing all the SRF techniques to keep up with the demanding schedule
>at work and get ahead like my peers. So I became depressed after I lost
>my job and stayed home for five years, living off my savings, until the
>money was gone. I lost the house and went into debt. Haven't seen or
>spoken to my family in years. And where is God? Where is guru? All
>those SRF tapes I bought where Sri Daya Mata said only love matters
>nothing else. But nobody wants to love you when you have no money, no
>job, no success, nothing. What about all those other SRF people who
>were supposed to be so supportive? Well they're too busy building
>worshipping the personalities of Yogananda and Sri Daya Mata to notice
>someone who is alone and no one loves him.
Not even himself?
And what about God who was
>supposed to look after his devotee. Where was he when they fired me for
>going home afte work to practice Kriya instead of working overtime in
>the evenings and on weekends at the office? Or when I lost my house?
>Or my money? I was so busy loving God I didn't notice I was falling of
>a cliff. And where was Master who was supposed to catch you in his
>lap? I fell on the hard stone and broke every bone in my body.
Who caused you to fall? If it was God, don't lose faith that he can
fix you. If it was yourself, don't lose faith that he can fix you?
All is never lost, even when it appears to be the bleakest, in life,
People have been known to make the biggest breakthroughs when they
have lost everything, so to speak, and become broken. Humpty Dumpty
can be put back together again because his break is impermanent, as he
himself is.
>Now I must think about whether I want to continue living or end this
>nightmare once and for all.
The nightmare is better lived through and seen for what it is by
waking up as oppossed to dying, which is also not the *final solution*
as you will find out if you think that anything you can possibly
imagine or do would be final to the whole of self-nature.
First step will be to disassociate myself
>from the SRF and start deprogramming myself. It won't be easy, after so
>many years of brainwashing. I have to start all over again, start work
>from the bottom, while most people my age are at the managerial level,
>I'll be working at some entry-level position, IF I'm lucky.
If you had actually found God, would it matter what level you had
attained in this impermanent dream?
I mean,
>who's going to hire someone who stayed home depressed for five years?
Someone who was doing a study of depression?
I
>have to start building a relationship with my family again. If they'll
>even talk to me after what I did to them. Right now everything looks
>pretty miserable. Where's God and guru now?
Maybe in your family, where they also were all the while, no?
Where's Divine mother to
>take care of me like she did Yogananda when he was penniless in
>Brindaban? I've bought some books on how to take one's own life
>successfully without making too much of a big mess or failing and then
>having to spend the rest of one's life being ridiculed, or worse
>crippled, so if things don't work out and I can't success at getting my
>life together again after this horrible experience, I'll probably end up
>going into mahasamadhi. It just won't be the yoga kind.
That's an option, yet it would be a shame to lose all you've wroked so
hard for when you're so close to finding it.
Just for your information and because I can't seem to reach you in
E-Mail, I'll tell you what I found.
After seeking desparatly for God for 25 years, from age 11, I met the
Head Disciple of Yogananda's Brother Monk, Satyananda. After
Satyananda's death he came to the United States. I spent three
months with just he and I together and he would tell me spiritual
stories while I typed the manuscripts for his books, both of us all
the while not even there in the sense of needing to be doing separate
things at the same time, everything flowing together as if no one was
doing anything but everything that was suppossed to be happening was.
After 3 months we were sitting facing each other and something strange
began to happen, something neither one of us either expected or knew
why it was happening. We both disappeared into sparkling
intelligence where neither of our minds was known as separate from the
other. There was God, and there was no *other* to say the word God
and make a reference point out of that word.
I did not take up the practice of Kriya, I just hung out with this
fellow until I got what I sepnt 25 years desparately seeking for.
He doesn't have an organization, although they asked him to head up
the worldwide SRF movement, which he declined because it would mean
his having to give up his privacy time to act as a figurehead.
I do not associate with this fellow anymore because our karmas took us
in different directions, or so it seems (truly, we are essentially
tnot two).
Because you followed all the rules and failed to find what you were
seeking and I broke all the rules and found what I was seeking, I have
a special place in my heart for you that you might want to explore
with me. Seems a waste to make all that hard work count for
nothing, to have been in vain, when I can't imagine that it was.
I have some questions for you that I would like to ask, as you have
information that I do not have about the SRF and I have the certainty
that I have found what I sought from the direct experience of what
people have called God over the eons, and can perhaps share some of
that with you? Since my fellow is an Original Kriya Master, this may
be something we can both benefit from. He has written a book
exposing the SRF as giving a false and impotent teaching which cannot
promise results since Yogananda died. Much political wranglings
behind the scenes, which there is in any organization after the
founder dies, it seems.
Steven
"The I Am That I AM" *IS* "The I Am ThatI Am."
There is no *other* "The I AM That I AM," that
I am not.
Nitin Batra
> We both disappeared into sparkling
> intelligence where neither of our minds was known as separate from the
> other. There was God, and there was no *other* to say the word God
> and make a reference point out of that word.
> Since my fellow is an Original Kriya Master, this may
> be something we can both benefit from...
Ron & Keli Conroy
Satyahit das
Funky Prophet _0/ <POI...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8i2suq$7ra$1...@alice.walrus.com...
Steven M. Stoltz
cres...@yahoo.com (Fred Hageman) wrote:
> What evidence is there for this supposed change? And, again, why would
> he change the foundation of what he was sent to the west to
> accomplish?
Fred,
I was only responding to that post, I didn't author it.
Stoltz
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
> Of course, considering that you think that you've actually seen
Babaji,
> everything else is pretty much pointless. As I've told you before,
if you
> really had the supernatural powers that you claim, you would not be
> discussing them here.
At least one thing is true, Jivass - I shouldn't be discussing them
with you :-)
Stoltz
P.S. "Cast not pearls before the swine ..."
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:06:54 GMT, Steven M. Stoltz <stoltz@my-
deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <8hi3ce$bab$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > baru...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> >> Kriya - Finding the True Path, outlines the original Kriya Yoga
> >> discipline as taught by Lahiri Mahasay, and also discusses the
> >> modifications made by Yogananda. It is available from:
> >
> >Sri Lahiri Mahasaya entered mahasamadhi long ago. Thus, the Kriya
> >spoken of above is not currently taught by Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, it is
> >taught by someone known as Swami Satyeswarananda Giri.
>
> It is also taught by many who are in the lineage of disciples of
Lahiri
> Mahasaya.
>
> And I doubt Satyeswarananda teaches anything directly from Lahiri,
since
> his guru was Babaji. He never met Lahiri Mahasaya. It'd be kind of
> difficult to have known Lahiri personally and still be alive today.
>
> >Who knows what
> >connection exists between these two people ...
> >
> >Stoltz
>
> For someone who has scolded others innumerable times for their so-
called
> sectarianism, you can certainly be as sectarian as the best of them.
Your
> statement above is more arrogant and sectarian than any of the ones
you've
> criticized.
>
I disagree with you regarding my so called sectarianism. If
Satyeswarananda Giri (SSG) is a geniune, "bona-fide", representative of
Babaji's Kriya yoga, then good for him. Nonetheless, I wanted to make
the distinction that SSG is the one who's doing the Kriya teaching, not
Sri Lahiri (as was implied by previous post) - unless they are in fact
one in the same ....
Stoltz
Genghis Khan
py dev too <williammcc...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
0f19bff4...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com...
> Dear All,
>
> Thank you all so very much for the kindness that is
> reflected by your messages. Master often quoted the
> proverb, "fools argue, wise men discuss." And you are all
> reflective of that sage advise!
>
> I hope someday to have a deeper discussion of this issue.
> But because this board has been linked to many other sites
> unrelated to this discussion I've decided take to "the
> better part of valour" at this time. And at any rate,
> after closely reading your posts, it is apparent to me that
> I need to contact the Mother Center to resolve this issue
> in my own mind.
>
> Finally some wisdom from "Swami Beyondananda" the humorist,
>
> "Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
> And no matter what adversity you face, be reassured: of
> course God loves you. He's just not ready to make a
> commitment."
>
> Namaste!!!
>
>
>
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
Beautiful
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <9vbujssu4d2l9sobj...@4ax.com>,
> Jiva <ji...@is.with.in> wrote:
>
>> Of course, considering that you think that you've actually seen
>Babaji,
>> everything else is pretty much pointless. As I've told you before,
>if you
>> really had the supernatural powers that you claim, you would not be
>> discussing them here.
>
>At least one thing is true, Jivass - I shouldn't be discussing them
>with you :-)
>
>Stoltz
The fact that even while you're at convocation you're still your usual
vulgar immature self hurling insults at others is the best testament that
SRF's teachings and Kriya Yoga don't work.
You're the best negative publicity SRF has. I wouldn't doubt you were
really from Ananda, cause you're certainly doing an excellent job of
discrediting SRF.
>P.S. "Cast not pearls before the swine ..."
Wish SRF and Yogananda would have remembered that before they cast their
teachings before you, pig.
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <53dujsc0n4du0ms95...@4ax.com>,
Not even being at convocation surrounded by thousands of spiritual people
has managed to open up that mind of yours that is closed tighter than a
mosquito's asshole.
Who the hell ever said that SSG was Lahiri or that Lahiri was doing the
teaching?
Open up that bigoted, sectarian mind of yours, Shitz.
joshua
of the lotus feet of the Lord and in due course of time does not succeed in
coming to the ultimate goal of life or falls down due to lack of experience,
there is no loss. But for a person who does not take to devotional service
yet executes his material duties very nicely, there is no gain.
- A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam commentary 4.22.37
Don't lose heart! If you are sincere then you can continue. If you are
insincere then you will give up, at least in this life.
Your friends and co-workers seem to have advanced, but what will be their
destination when this body is finished? What will be their fate? Our vision
is greater than this. Job was tested, Jesus was tested, all are tested to
see if their determination is worthy of advancing toward the goal. Don't
give up. Seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door shall be opened unto
you. Pray with determination and sincerity and you will be sent a guru to
lead you further on the path.
ys,
joshua
Steven M. Stoltz
Jiva <ji...@jiva.jiva> wrote:
> Who the hell ever said that SSG was Lahiri or that Lahiri was doing
the
> teaching?
>
> Open up that bigoted, sectarian mind of yours, Shitz.
>
I never said such a thing - don't you understand logic ? I said, that
clearly SSG has set himself up as the teacher and - and unless he is one
and the same individual as Sri Lahiri (by way of reincarnation), that
SSG is not qualified to speak as Sri Lahiri or to translate Sri Lahiri's
books (Logic says either he is Sri Lahiri or he isn't ...)
Even though fans of SSG tend to regard him as equal to Sri Lahiri, the
matter is still open to debate to those who don't know for sure. I have
seen enough religious sectarianism in SSG's followers (and his writings)
to have my own doubts as to SSG's authenticity .... However, since SSG's
authenticity is not really a matter that deeply interests me (because I
have a connection to Yogananda that I can feel already ..), this is the
first post that has been more than a sentence long on the matter ...
Evidently the subject interests you Jivass ...
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 16:12:04 GMT, cres...@yahoo.com (Fred Hageman)
wrote:
>On Fri, 09 Jun 2000 21:05:16 GMT, yogau...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>When he lived here, he was subject to the conditions and vicissitudes
>>of life like anyone else down here.
>
>Sort of.
>>
>>Now he is dead and if indeed something of him continues to exist on
>>another plane, his connection to our world however is cut off,
>
>This is utter bullshit. Back this up with anything of substance,
>please.
>
>
> and only
>>those people who by nature feel a strong attraction to his spirit (like
>>the one you quoted) can make use of his invisible presence, if they
>>really feel it. For the other 98% he is just a living myth like Jesus
>>and this myth can only be of limited use for spiritual life.
>
>Yeah, just like the limited use Saint Francis had for Jesus, Saint
>Teresa, and Saint Theresa, and the many other Christian mystics who
>have found so much depth in such a dead master. Open your eyes, and
>learn what is possible.
>
>>If Yogananda isn't dead then please someone show him to me and make him
>>live here as a human being again for an extended period of time.
>
>Look at the ludicrousness of what you are saying here.
>
>>The blueprint of him that remains in the memory of some people or in
>>the ether is different from the presence of a being living on the
>>material plane.
>
>Is it? Says you, but eveidence ain't on your side. Yo, he says often
>and clearly that the connection between guru and disciple isn't
>limited to the physical. But you say it is. Why should anyone listen
>to you against him?
>
>>Those who are already very close to a person, may be
>>even more close after his death, the relation may become more inwardly,
>>not depending on physical mediators anymore, but those who didn't have
>>any contact beforehand won't attain much of it afterwards. And how
>>should they? People like Turiyananda are exceptions, not the rule.
>
>Why is Turiyananda the exception? Why Premamoy, why Anilhinanda, and
>so many others? They went all the way in their practice, they did the
>work, and they got there. That is the same thing all of us have access
>to, but whether we do it or not is the only question.
>
>>Likewise, many people tell me they "speak with Jesus". But I can't see
>>any development in them at all; instead of progression it seems to be a
>>matter of perpetually remaining at the same spot. Christianity has
>>become in the first place a means for self-gratification, to ensure
>>oneself of what one thinks to be, with the hope to be 'saved' by an
>>outside imaginary force, and many devotees of SRF are, in my humble
>>opinion, rather Christians than people looking for realizing the truth
>>in themselves. Focussing on an imaginary saviour is an element of
>>belief and religion, and not of yoga, which is about realization.
>
>This is so off-base. To say that Yogananda is an imaginary saviour, is
>egregious, as is the inference that Christ was/is also. If you are
>comparing fundamental worshippers with mystical investigators and
>practicioners, well, your comparison is fucked at the start, which you
>know. So, why are you making it?
>
>
>Fred
baru...@my-deja.com
>>I had to go
home
> >and do Aum technique, and Hongsau technique, and Energization
technique,
> >and then practice Kriya.
>
> And what are these techniques, in particular? How do you know that
> they are not the Original Kriya discipline?
>
Steven,
They are not part of the original Kriya tradition.
Barbara
with our family, partner, friends, at work. We should feel better, be more
able to solve problems. If this is not happening then there's something
wrong either with the meditation in itself or in our understanding of the
meditation. Or it might be that our path is to move into the Himalaya and
meditate in a cave.
In our life we should take responsibility for what is happening to us.
There's always something to learn out of it. Don't blame only SRF, there are
many people meditating for long hours and they are still able to manage
their life.
Maybe one day you'll find your own personal relationship with Yogananda,
don't care for SRF, look what Yogananda means to you, only he, not the
organisation.
Barbara
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
3941C508...@enchan.ted...
Jiva
<barbar...@berlin.snafu.de> wrote:
>Maybe one day you'll find your own personal relationship with Yogananda,
>don't care for SRF, look what Yogananda means to you, only he, not the
>organisation.
>Barbara
Wow, Barbara, I'm impressed. That was a really good post. And a welcome
departure from your usual posts bitching and complaining about everything.
I hope in the future you'll continue along this line of helpful posts.
By the way, is that why you didn't go to Convocation (concentrating on
Yogananda and not the organization)?
Jiva
wrote:
>In article <q5jgks8lfvqae25sn...@4ax.com>,
> Jiva <ji...@jiva.jiva> wrote:
>
>> Who the hell ever said that SSG was Lahiri or that Lahiri was doing
>the
>> teaching?
>>
>> Open up that bigoted, sectarian mind of yours, Shitz.
>>
>
>I never said such a thing - don't you understand logic ?
Bwaaahahahahahaha. You, of all people lecturing on logic. ROTFL!!!
>I said, that
>clearly SSG has set himself up as the teacher and - and unless he is one
>and the same individual as Sri Lahiri (by way of reincarnation), that
>SSG is not qualified to speak as Sri Lahiri or to translate Sri Lahiri's
>books
You never cease to shock with your utterly moronic and clueless arguments.
SSG does not need ANYONE's permission to be a teacher or to translate books
any more than Yogananda did.
>(Logic says either he is Sri Lahiri or he isn't ...)
No shit, Shitz!!!
>Even though fans of SSG tend to regard him as equal to Sri Lahiri,
Where do you get this from?! He is his own person. Nobody regards him as
Lahiri any more than anyone regards Yogananda as Lahiri.
>the
>matter is still open to debate to those who don't know for sure.
Just like the matter of Yogananda is open to debate for many who don't care
about him, don't believe in him, don't think he was an avatar, don't
believe that he ever met Babaji, or that Babaji told him to go to the West,
etc. etc. etc.
>I have
>seen enough religious sectarianism in SSG's followers (and his writings)
>to have my own doubts as to SSG's authenticity
First, it's impossible for there to be any more sectarianism among his
followers than among SRF people. He has very few disciples, and a few
readers of his books. NOTHING compares to the sectarianism and religious
bigotry that exists among the hundreds of thousands of followers of
Yogananda. And nobody among those Yogananda followers is a greater
sectarian and bigot than you. (With the possible exception of your friend,
the Nojdw/Fred Parente/Astral loony).
> .... However, since SSG's
>authenticity is not really a matter that deeply interests me
Oh, sure, that must be why you keep going on about it.
>(because I
>have a connection to Yogananda that I can feel already ..)
And yet you deny others the same right to feel connected to whomever they
wish.
>this is the
>first post that has been more than a sentence long on the matter ...
You are the most full of shit being that I have ever encountered. You are
beyond full of shit, you have become shit.
>Evidently the subject interests you Jivass ...
>
>Stoltz
And it obviously doesn't interest you, Shitz, that's why you keep
discussing it, right?
You are a discredit to Yogananda and to the whole SRF organization. The
very fact that you are attending their convocation in Los Angeles this week
and it hasn't done you any good and it hasn't opened up that bigoted,
sectarian, narrow, closed mind of yours one bit is ample proof. And the
fact that you traveled all the way from New Hampshire to California to
attent this convocation and instead of trying to absorb some spirituality
while there you are on Usenet instead hammering away and being your usual
childish, immature, clueless, moronic self speaks volumes about what a
phony you are and how bogus your alleged connection with Yogananda really
is.
Sphere
Why is your entire post put in terms of ought?
Shouldn't one find their own way rather than
follow the whims of others?
--
Sphere.
"Please change your sig line!!!!
Like yesterdays underwear, it's a little stinky." -- Bryant
Steven Lightfoot
wrote:
>
>Why is your entire post put in terms of ought?
>
>Shouldn't one find their own way rather than
>follow the whims of others?
>
Not if one's way *is* the other. :-)
Vijay Kumar
> In article <39371CE5...@enchan.ted>,
> Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote:
> > After many years in SRF I'm thinking of leaving. I can't stand the
> way
> > the organization is going. I received Kriya years ago but now I hear
> it
> > isn't even the real Kriya, that it's not effective like the original
> > Kriya yoga of Babaji and Lahiri Mahasaya. I never did like
> > organizations, but put up with the churchiness of SRF because of
> Kriya.
> > But I can't stand its "don't worry, be a smile millionaire and
> > everything will be Oh-Kay!" attitude anymore. Maybe I should go to
> > India and look for a guru there. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > Disenchanted
>
> 1. Why did you post this to all of these groups?
> <<alt.yogananda,alt.yoga,alt.meditation,soc.culture.indian,alt.religion.
> hindu,alt.religion.vaisnava,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.buddhism,
> alt.zen>>
>
> 2. SRF is a young organization, relatively speaking. Mistakes and
> missteps will happen. If the organization will be around for several
> thousand years and it is less than 100 years old, it's still in diapers.
>
> 3. Which way is the organization going? Would you clarify this?
>
> 4. The nature of the mind is doubt. Maya likes to keep things stirred
> up and keep creation going. Have you had any benefit from your Kriya
> practice? (I'm not talking about visions or anything, for those are not
> important.) Are your meditations deeper and deeper to the best of your
> ability on a daily basis? Are you meditating regularly? (You can go to
> another teacher or Guru but you may run into the same "problem"
> whatever that might be).
>
> 5. If you've taken Kriya (and I don't know how many years you've had
> it) it is definitely over 1 year. Master wrote to, essentially, put
> your whole effort into this path for at least a year and if it's not
> for you then find what is for you. Have you done this willingly?
>
> 6. How do you know this Kriya is not as effective as the "other" Kriya?
> How do you know that we don't have the original Kriya from thousands of
> years ago and the other Kriya is the "new and changed" Kriya?
> (Remember, we just came out of the Dark Ages. In fact, it was the low
> point of several cycles. Things don't get much darker than they were.)
>
> 7. Have you done what Master says about urgent matters? Meditate, do
> Kriya, and then ask for guidance holding the rose petals in your right
> hand? And sing the special chant?
>
> 8. Is there some other issue in your life that may have touched this
> off? Ultimately, it is each one of us and the Guru. Or, rather, us and
> God. No one said ultimate fulfillment would be easy and sometimes right
> before you get to the summit of a mountain the climb is vertical. So it
> may seem, almost, impossible.
>
> 9. Are you endeavoring to stay attuned to Master? Do you read the
> lessons or other writings for 30 minutes daily? Or not meeting that,
> how about 1 paragraph or one sentence? How about the Spiritual Diary?
>
> 10. Have you tried practicing the presence of God? Try to make it a
> game? Take something from the lessons or writings or think to do
> something that reminds you of God. Do you practice japa (sp?) yoga?
>
> 11. Do you attend a meditation group or have a support group around
> you? Many times when we have issues that we deal with, we think we are
> the only ones going through something until we speak to someone else
> who has also had the same, or similar, difficult experience. We're not
> alone. All of the issues we need to deal with are inside of us. We have
> everything we need at each moment in time to reach God. It's a choice.
> Going to India, staying in the US (are you in the US), won't really
> change anything. Everything you are dealing with will stay with you
> until you face and overcome it.
>
> 12. Are you a real person? (I hope this is not a hoax.)
>
> God be with you,
>
> purusha :)
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Looking forward to some serious reading on Self realization -
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lawson English
If God is omnipresent, and God loves Himself, than God loves EVERYTHING,
including the "evil" of the world.
OTOH, if you are able to see the essential unity of the universe, that would
include the essential unity of everything with God, and therefore God
*would* be a loving God, just as many scriptures suggest.
The Vedic tradition holds that Knowledge is structured in consciousness: the
way in which your nervous system operates is the ONLY way in which you can
perceive the world. Change your nervous system, and you'll change your
perceptions. Try to understand the universe from the perspective of someone
or something that you are not, and not only are you doomed to fail, but to
be miserable while you try to do it, because you will ALWAYS fail to
comprehend the universe of the enlightened person if you aren't enlightened
yourself.
Just ignore the incomprehensible stuff and try to live a good life.
Meditate and chop wood, as the Zen Buddhists might say.
[Meditate and watch Galaxy Quest, *I* say]
--
YOU have the right to select the Reform Party Presidential Nominee, which
doesn't have to be Pat Buchanan. Vote BEFORE June 30.
<http://www.reasontovote.com>
--
----------
In article <3952C8B1...@enchan.ted>, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted>
wrote:
> Again, thank you to those of you who took the time to reply, to
> understand, and to care. There were those who have been very
> judgemental, but that was to be expected I guess. Anyway, the last few
> weeks have been the worst of my life. Leaving my guru was
> heartbreaking. I really did love Yogananda for many years. And leaving
> SRF was not easy either. All things, even bad ones, are habit forming,
> and after so many years of thinking of them as my religion, attending
> events, sunday services, etc., it wasn't easy. Leaving a cult never
> is. So many psychic bonds to sever. It has been a horrendous
> experience. Anyway, the worst is now over. I plan to enjoy my newfound
> freedom for a little while, not get too crazy or anything, but just bask
> in the new air of freedom, and then continue my search for another
> path. Not necessarily a religious one, though. After this experience,
> I think I've had it with religion. I've been reading some of
> Vivekananda's works just to get a different perspective on what I've
> been through, and Buddhism appeals to me in some way because of it's
> nonbelief in God, though in the end it's still religion. I'm leaning
> pretty much toward atheism. That's what I was before I enterred the
> cult, and it feels like coming home after this terrible brainwashing
> about God I've just been through. I'm reading some of Aurobindo's
> works, don't know yet if that's religion too, haven't come across too
> much churchiness and God this God that in his books, though I'm just
> scratching the surface. I think that's religion too. Nope, I think in
> the end I'll just go back to being an atheist. Atheism and science from
> now on. No more crap about a supposedly loving God who is supposedly
> full of compassion yet he puts his children through crap only an evil
> mind could come up with. When you think about it, God is the cruelest
> being in the universe. Nothing but pain and suffering for his
> creatures. What the f-ck kind of love is that?! Anyway, thanks
> everyone who is still with me and has read this far. Being able to
> share this experience with others has made a big difference.
Disenchanted
Disenchanted (ever more)
YogiB
Finally, it's arrived.
You know that answer you've been looking for all this time?
Well, here it is....
There is no such evil in the world or the universe, only that which you
label so.
Don't judge means just that - stop labelling everything.
Most of all - stop labelling and judging your own self.
Just be cool, and give the pursuit of organised religion the flick for a
while. It can really zap your sense of freedom, especially if you are
buying into a heap of Dogma (dumb shit you gotta do to get to heaven).
Zen is cool but, because it's illogical, which means you can't work out
what the hell you're supposed to be doing and after a while you give up and
just wander off thus achieving the very thing which Zen wanted you to
achieve in the first place which is really nothing - weird, huh?
Chill out and stop externalising God - you are God and God is you - that's
what makes you so special....
Don't be angry at yourself and you won't be angry at God.
Don't be scared of yourself and you won't be scared of God.
As a great master once said:
"Fear is the path to the dark side - fear leads to anger, anger leads to
hate, and hate leads to suffering....."
Take comfort in the knowledge that all paths (even the nasty ones) lead to a
good place.
How do I know?
Because in the long run good always beats evil.
How do I know?
There was never any evil in the first place, besides, how can millions of
Star Wars fans be wrong?
One final thing - leave the drama to the cast of Melrose Place - at least
they are getting paid for it!
Okay - so this may not be the answer to all your problems, but what is?
As a great master once said, "Unfortunately no-one can be told what the
Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself."
Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted> wrote in message
news:3952C8B1...@enchan.ted...
Dayamati Dharmachari
> Anyway, the last few weeks have been the worst of my life. Leaving
> my guru was heartbreaking.
I have been divorced twice, and I have left a religious community
once. Leaving the religious community was many times more painful than
leaving a marriage. For me it was not heartbreaking to leave my
teacher, to whom I had never felt very close anyway, but it was
heartbreaking to leave the thirty or so good friends I had made. With
some of them I stayed in touch for a while, but our friendships were
never quite the same.
> I really did love Yogananda for many years. And leaving SRF was not
> easy either. All things, even bad ones, are habit forming, and after
> so many years of thinking of them as my religion, attending events,
> sunday services, etc., it wasn't easy. Leaving a cult never is.
Leaving a community of any kind is never easy, especially if it has
been a source of positive experiences for you. For what it's worth, I
think the word "cult" is overused and usually misused. It has a
precise technical meaning, which is not at all negative. And it has a
more informal meaning, which is imprecise and invariably pejorative.
Calling a religious community a cult is merely a way of saying you
don't approve of it.
> So many psychic bonds to sever.
I see this every year when I attend graduation ceremonies. People are
suddenly faced with disconnecting from hundreds of friendships they
have formed over the years, and saying goodbye to a place that has
become familiar. Many students I know go into a real slump after
graduation. The feelings of loss can be acute. Pretty much the same
psychological forces are at work when a person leaves a religious
community of any kind. It is a time for grieving. And you must give
yourself the time and space to grieve properly.
> After this experience, I think I've had it with religion.
Give it time. There is no need to throw out the very possibility of a
positive religious community simply because you have had a bad
experience with one. (I am reminded of George Bernard Shaw's answer to
a question about his sex life: "I tried it once and didn't like it.")
--
May all beings find a cult that nourishes them,
Dayamati
Sue Green
I am not as strict with ensuring an amount of quiet time with no physical
movement (meditation to me). But I do try to mix it in with everything I do
(wash up, walk to work). I never know if its really any good, or if I am
doing well (who can say? only me I guess).
Sue
Lawson English wrote in message <8iumtu$5it$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
>
>Just ignore the incomprehensible stuff and try to live a good life.
>
>Meditate and chop wood, as the Zen Buddhists might say.
>
>[Meditate and watch Galaxy Quest, *I* say]
>
>--
>YOU have the right to select the Reform Party Presidential Nominee, which
>doesn't have to be Pat Buchanan. Vote BEFORE June 30.
><http://www.reasontovote.com>
>--
>
>----------
>In article <3952C8B1...@enchan.ted>, Disenchanted <d...@enchan.ted>
>wrote:
>
>
>> Again, thank you to those of you who took the time to reply, to
>> understand, and to care. There were those who have been very
>> judgemental, but that was to be expected I guess. Anyway, the last few
>> weeks have been the worst of my life. Leaving my guru was
>> heartbreaking. I really did love Yogananda for many years. And leaving
>> SRF was not easy either. All things, even bad ones, are habit forming,
>> and after so many years of thinking of them as my religion, attending
>> events, sunday services, etc., it wasn't easy. Leaving a cult never
Phil Pease
"Disenchanted" <d...@enchan.ted> wrote in message
news:3952C8B1...@enchan.ted...
> full of compassion yet he puts his children through crap only an evil
> mind could come up with. When you think about it, God is the cruelest
> being in the universe. Nothing but pain and suffering for his
My belief about this is that God allows free will. For God to control us
would make us puppets. Would that be better? I think not. But with free
will comes the possibility of good and evil. It is up to us to choose.