Maharishi's mantras
John Manning
mantras. I am also familiar with the mantras Maharishi gave me to teach.
The following includes what I was taught. It also includes other
information which I was not given by Maharishi or in advanced
instruction, but which follows the context within which I received what
I got. The source is http://minet.org/mantras-alt.html
OK. Here is the whole picture:
The TM and TM-Sidhi Techniques
As reported in the TM-EX Newsletter, and from other sources.
Disclaimer - read this first.
Provided for historical and research purposes only (in other words,
don't blame me for what happens if you attempt to meditate with this
data, and don't even think about sending me international snail-mail
with questions about meditation.)
The TM technique is simple mental repetition of a "mantra" or word. The
TM movement claims that only specific "words" can be used. They claim
that the selection of words is based upon a secret formula. Court
documents have shed some light on this "secret" process. It is nothing
other than a set of words given out by age, and/or age and sex,
depending on the teacher training course the TM teacher attended.
The TM-Sidhi program is nothing other than a set of sutras (words or
phrases), mentally repeated every fifteen seconds after doing a twenty
minute session of TM. Each sutra is repeated twice, with a 15 second
pause in between each repetition.
The TM Mantra Tables
1961 1969-Male 1969-Female Fiuggi, 1972
Sex Mantra Age Mantra Age Mantra Age Mantra
MALE RAM 0-15 ING 0-15 IM 10-11 ING
FEMALE SHIRIRAM 15-30 AING 15-30 AIM 12-13 IM
30-45 SHRING 30-45 SHRIM 14-15 INGA
46 + SHIAM 46 + SHIAMA 16-17 IMA
18-19 AYING
20-21 AYIM
22-23 AYINGA
24-25 AYIMA
> 25 SHIRING
1976 1977 1978 October,1978 1987
Age Mantra Age Mantra Age Mantra Age Mantra Age
Mantra
03-10 ENG 03-10 ING 0-11
ENG
10-12 EM 10-12 IN 10-12 ENG 10-12
ENG
12-14 ENGA 12-14 INGA 12-14 EM 12-14 EM 12-13
EM
14-16 EMA 14-16 INA 14-16 EMGA 14-16 ENGA 14-15
ENGA
16-18 AENG 16-18 AING 16-18 EMA 16-18 EMA 16-17
EMA
18-20 AEM 18-20 AIM 18-20 AENG 18-20 AING 18-19
AING
20-22 AENGA 20-22 AINGA 20-22 AEM 20-22 AIM 20-21
AIM
22-24 AEMA 22-24 AIMA 22-24 AENGA 22-24 AINGA 22-23
AINGA
24-26 AEMA 24-26 AIMA 24-25
AIMA
24-30 SHIRING 24-30 SHIRING 26-30 SHIRING 26-30 SHIRING 26-29
SHIRING
30-35 SHIRIM 30-35 SHIRIN 30-35 SHIRIM 30-35 SHIRIM 30-34
SHIRIM
35-40 HIRING 35-40 HIRING 35-40 HIRING 35-40 HIRING 35-39
HIRING
40-45 HIRIM 40-45 HIRIN 40-45 HIRIM 40-45 HIRIM 40-44
HIRIM
45-50 KIRING 45-50 KIRING 45-50 KIRING 45-50 KIRING 45-49
KIRING
50-55 KIRIM 50-55 KIRIN 50-55 KIRIM 50-55 KIRIM 50-54
KIRIM
55-60 SHIAM 55-60 SHIAM 55-60 SHYAM 55-60 SHIAM 55-59
SHAM
60 + SHIAMA 60 + SHIAMA 60 + SHYAMA 60 + SHIAMA 60 +
SHAMA
Notes: The year at the top of each column indicates the year the teacher
was trained. "Age" is that of the initiate at the time of learning the
technique.
See the TM Checking Notes and Steps to Initiation for details on the
initiation and checking rituals. (http://minet.org/mantras-alt.html)
Advanced Techniques
First: AING NAMAH
Second: SHRI AING NAMAH
Third: SHRI AING NAMAH NAMAH
Fourth: SHRI SHRI AING NAMAH NAMAH
Fifth: SHRI SHRI AING AING NAMAH NAMAH
Sixth: SHRI SHRI AING AING NAMAH NAMAH
(Thought in the heart area)
Seventh: Age of Enlightenment Technique:
A system of putting attention on parts of the body, environment,
world and outer space.
Notes: In most cases students were instructed to use their own,
previously assigned mantra where AING appears above.
************************************************************
Translation of Advanced Technique Mantras
SHRI "Oh most beautiful"
AING "Hindu goddess Saraswati"
NAMAH "I bow down"
************************************************************
(borders added for emphasis)
Ayurveda Techniques
Primordial Sound - "AMRITA," used as a mantra
Psychophysiological Technique - Mantra is thought in heart area.
TM-Sidhi Techniques
The names of the sutras used in the TM-Sidhi program are:
Friendliness
Compassion
Happiness
Strength of an elephant
Bronchial tube
Inner light
Sun
Moon
Polestar
Trachea
Navel
Distinction between intellect and transcendence
Transcendence intuition
Transcendence finest hearing
Transcendence finest sight
Transcendence finest taste
Transcendence finest touch
Transcendence finest smell.
The "levitation" or "flying" technique, now known as "Yogic Flying," is
used in the same way as all other sutras:
"Relationship of body and akasha - lightness of cotton fiber."
This phrase is mentally repeated every fifteen seconds after doing a
twenty minute session of TM. Each sutra is mentally repeated twice (if
time allows 4 times), with a 15 second pause in between each repetition.
After doing the flying sutra for 5-30 minutes, the instruction is to
rest for 10-30 minutes and then read the Hindu Scriptures for 5 minutes.
An example of the readings (from the Ninth Mandala of Rig Veda):
Flow Soma, in a most sweet and exhilarating stream, effused for Indra to
drink. The all-beholding destroyer of Rakshasas has stepped upon his
gold-smitten birthplace, united with the wooden cask. Be the lavish
giver of wealth, most bounteous, the destroyer of enemies; bestow on us
the riches of the affluent. Come with food to the sacrifice of the
mighty gods, and bring us strength and sustenance. To thee we come, O
dropping (Soma); for thee only is this our worship day by day, our
prayers are to thee, none other.
[end of quote]
That is what is taught in the TM org. If there are those who think that
TM uses scientific 'meaningless sounds' as mantras, then I am at a loss
as to their motives. And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
am also at a loss.
John
Stu
in article 3D475921...@biohard.com.br, John Manning at
joh...@biohard.com.br wrote on 7/30/02 8:27 PM:
> That is what is taught in the TM org. If there are those who think that
> TM uses scientific 'meaningless sounds' as mantras, then I am at a loss
> as to their motives.
The argument is not that the mantras are meaningless. The argument is that
their meaning is irrelevant to the practice. In order to practice TM
innocently one only brings their attention to the sound. If some Hindu
cults choose to assign meaning to the mantras that is their problem.
I am of the understanding that like Hebrew every letter of the Sanskrit
alphabet has a different force or Deity associated with it. Thus if you
subscribe to the superstition any sound made in Sanskrit is going to relate
back to a subtle vibration level associated with that force.
For a paranoid Xtian this means that nearly any sound chanted has according
to Tantric sources deeper invocations of appropriate spirits. For example
after a prayer a person reciting "Amen" would be invoking unwittingly Hindu
Deities.
This is all in the realm of Tantric yoga that is quite different from the
yoga taught by His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
> And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
> am also at a loss.
>
There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic leader
His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It is
clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books, it is
written all over the WEB site.
However it is possible to learn the technique of TM, and practice it for
many years without getting involved with their beliefs.
In fact I don't remember there being any form of coercion to get one to
pursue the Meheshian Philosophy (Joe's term). It pretty much out there for
the taking if you care.
--
~Stu
willytex
John - You also signed a pledge to Maharishi at Estes Park. So, we can see
that you are not a man of your word, Sir.
John Manning
In fact Tex, I never signed any such pledge at Estes Park, Humboldt or
anywhere else. As I understand it, those 'pledges' did not happen until
TTC in Mallorca.
will...@texas.net
John - So, you made a pledge to Maharsihi at Estes Park and you broke your
pledge. You are not a man of your word.
"John Manning" <joh...@biohard.com.br
wrote in message
Lawson English
"confidential?"
"John Manning" <joh...@biohard.com.br> wrote in message
news:3D47DC55...@biohard.com.br...
Petrus
"Stu" <nos...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:B96CB4F9.1186C%nos...@no.spam...
> I open with a...pardon me...big [snip] of the mantra page.
>
> in article 3D475921...@biohard.com.br, John Manning at
> joh...@biohard.com.br wrote on 7/30/02 8:27 PM:
>
> > That is what is taught in the TM org. If there are those who think that
> > TM uses scientific 'meaningless sounds' as mantras, then I am at a loss
> > as to their motives.
>
> The argument is not that the mantras are meaningless. The argument is
that
> their meaning is irrelevant to the practice.
This is where you have to look at the precise meaning of what MMY says about
his mantras:
"But we do not select the sound at random, We do not select any sound like
'mike', flower table, pen, wail, etc, because such ordinary sounds can do
nothing more than merely sharpening the mind; whereas there are some special
sounds which have the additional efficacy of producing vibrations whose
effects are found to be congenial to our way of life. This is the scientific
reason why we do not select any word at random. For our practice, we select
only the suitable mantras of personal Gods. Such mantras fetch to us the
grace of personal Gods and make us happier in every walk of life. "
http://www.trancenet.org/secrets/beacon/beacon2.shtml#27
As you can see from the above quote, if MMY had given you the mantra 'mike',
it's meaning would have been irrelevant to the practice. Transcending which
it will automatically get into the realm of Sat-Chidanandam and experience
it. Which is what most - non worship god - TMers are after. But if you read
about the "scientific" reason why the mantras are picked you will get the
riligious - worship - aspect of TM.
> In order to practice TM
> innocently one only brings their attention to the sound. If some Hindu
> cults
ROTFLOL
> choose to assign meaning to the mantras that is their problem.
ROTFLOL, the only Hindu cult that did not choose to explain the meaning of
the mantras is the TM0
>
> I am of the understanding that like Hebrew every letter of the Sanskrit
> alphabet has a different force or Deity associated with it. Thus if you
> subscribe to the superstition any sound made in Sanskrit is going to
relate
> back to a subtle vibration level associated with that force.
That is what the TM0 explains about their mantras.
>
> For a paranoid Xtian this means that nearly any sound chanted has
according
> to Tantric sources deeper invocations of appropriate spirits. For example
> after a prayer a person reciting "Amen" would be invoking unwittingly
Hindu
> Deities.
No because the English meaning of the word "amen" is either to express
solemn ratification or hearty approval. On the other hand the mantras have
NO English meaning. Thus it requires one to find out what the meaning is in
India.
>
> This is all in the realm of Tantric yoga that is quite different from the
> yoga taught by His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
?
>
> > And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
> > am also at a loss.
> >
> There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic leader
> His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It is
> clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books, it
is
> written all over the WEB site.
Yet it is denied, here on this newsgroup by their attorney as well as TM
teachers, and is denied when people ask about it in their intro lectures.
What gives? Fraud?
>
> However it is possible to learn the technique of TM, and practice it for
> many years without getting involved with their beliefs.
Yes if you were to use the mantra "mike"
>
> In fact I don't remember there being any form of coercion to get one to
> pursue the Meheshian Philosophy (Joe's term). It pretty much out there
for
> the taking if you care.
Stu- do you believe in Karma and reincarnation?
John Manning
"will...@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> > I never signed any such pledge...
>
> John - So, you made a pledge to Maharsihi at Estes Park and you broke your
> pledge. You are not a man of your word.
I just told you that I never made any such pledge - in writing or
verbally. As I understand it, those 'pledges' happened beginning in TTC
in Mallorca, Spain - *after* Estes Park.
(snip to end)
John Manning
Lawson English wrote:
>
> So no-one, at any time, asked you to keep what you learned on the TTC
> "confidential?"
That is correct - no one. What is there in TM to hide from others? Why
should anything be 'hidden'? Maybe so someone can be in a 'special'
position of information 'superiority'? Hmmmm...
Original TM technique mantra:
AING (original mantra, meaning "Hindu goddess Saraswati")
Advanced technique mantras:
SHRI (added mantra, meaning, "Oh most beautiful")
AING (original mantra, meaning, "Hindu goddess Saraswati")
NAMAH (added mantra, meaning, "I bow down")
SHRI AING NAMAH = "Oh most beautiful goddess Saraswati, I bow down."
These advanced techniques "make use of" *additional mantras*. The
actual practise of using the additional mantras together with the
original one - is identical to the practice of using the original
mantra alone. And while the mantras *do* have a meaning, THAT MEANING
IS NOT USED IN THE ACTUAL PRACTISE - *only* the 'sound' is used - just
like with the original technique.
The point of all of this is *only* to point out that the TM mantras
are not 'meaningless sounds'. It appears that some TMers are *desparate*
to stick with the idea that TM is simply a mechanical technique (which
it is) and strictly devoid of any religious or spiritual content (which
it obviously isn't).
John
will...@texas.net
Petrock - Excuse me: you just spammed on yourself again! There is no 'mike'
mantra. Maharsihi was referring to the abbreviation 'mic' for microphone,
and not the personal nickname 'mike'. Are you dense? It says 'mic' in the
official translation "Beacon Light". You made up the 'mike' part and that's
dishonest. You just undermined your own position by trying to be a wiseacre.
Congratualions.
> ...it's meaning would have been irrelevant
> to the practice.
Uh, no. The personal nickname 'mike' is not meaningless. It is the
abbreviation for Michael, a common Persian personal name of an 'archangel'
according to the Catholic Appendix to the Hebrew Bible. The name Michael is
derived from the Greek, which is akin to Sanskrit and Latin.
But, what if the Maharsihi had said "We could take any word, for instance
'Peter' for our mantra?" In that case you would be meditating on a pun word
for the magic mushroom whose gaurdian 'angel' is the 'Peckerwood of Mars'.
So, how does it feel to have the name Petrus, which you were told meant a
'rock'? The word 'Peter' and 'Petrus' are both Sumerian names of a fungus
with a bright red cap and little white spots all over it.
The "mic" quotation:
In the most shocking point for orthodox TMers, the Maharishi admits that any
word, even the prosaic "microphone," can be used for meditation.
http://www.trancenet.org/secrets/beacon/index.shtml
In the most shocking point for orthodox TMers, the Maharishi admits that any
word, even the prosaic "microphone," can be used for meditation.
http://trancenet.org/secrets/beacon/
<snip>
will...@texas.net
>>
> John - So, you made a pledge to Maharsihi at Estes Park and you
> broke your pledge. You are not a man of your word.
>
>> I just told you that I never made any such pledge - in writing or
>> verbally. As I understand it, those 'pledges' happened beginning in
>> TTC in Mallorca, Spain - *after* Estes Park.
John - All TM teacher's make or sign a pledge; it's in the puja to Guru Dev.
Wanna try this one again?
Source:
TM teachers must sign an oath which, in part, states: "It is my fortune,
Guru Dev [the Maharishi's dead master], that I have been accepted to serve
the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God ... and I promise on your
altar, Guru Dev, ..."
http://www.city-net.com/~dkrieger/Latex2HTML/flyer2/flyer2.html
will...@texas.net
>
> So no-one, at any time, asked you to keep what you learned
> on the TTC "confidential?"
>
John - Unbelievable. I think you're fudging on this one. The pledge is also
in the initiation puja, the one you repeated thousands of times for
twenty-five years, as you recently claimed.
"THE ONE, THE ETERNAL, THE PURE, THE IMMOVABLE, the witness of all
intellects, whose status transcends thought- the Transcendent along with the
three gunas, the true preceptor, to Shri Guru Dev, I bow down."
http://www.city-net.com/~dkrieger/Latex2HTML/flyer2/flyer2.html
John Manning
"will...@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> > Lawson English wrote:
> >
> > So no-one, at any time, asked you to keep what you learned
> > on the TTC "confidential?"
> >
> > > That is correct - no one. <snip>
> John - Unbelievable. I think you're fudging on this one. The pledge is also
> in the initiation puja, the one you repeated thousands of times for
> twenty-five years, as you recently claimed.
The results of your admitted drug use are showing Tex. Since you claimed
that you were "born enlightened" and somehow forgot your "enlightenment"
and then took drugs with a fictional shaman drug dealer to get
"enlightened" again - your extensive verbosity has little credibility.
It is especially offensive to sincere seekers who practise TM since
Maharishi has always been totally against drug use as a means to
enlightenment. It's no wonder that your fellow TMers feel sorry for you
and think that you're missing a few marbles. Does your girlfriend Rita
do drugs too? Maybe you should both sign up for counseling. You claim to
support Maharishi and TM. Does yogic flying neutralize the drug effects?
When was the last time you got "loaded" Tex. Maybe 'that's' the way to
enlightenment for you. Do you forget your 'meaningless' mantra when
you're stoned on drugs? Maybe that's why some people think that you have
something to offer.
Go figure.
John Manning
"will...@yahoo.com" wrote:
>
> >> I never signed any such pledge...
> >>
> > John - So, you made a pledge to Maharsihi at Estes Park and you
> > broke your pledge. You are not a man of your word.
> >
> >> I just told you that I never made any such pledge - in writing or
> >> verbally. As I understand it, those 'pledges' happened beginning in
> >> TTC in Mallorca, Spain - *after* Estes Park.
>
> John - All TM teacher's make or sign a pledge;
Just what is this pledge Tex?
it's in the puja to Guru Dev.
I know the Puja to Guru Dev quite well, Tex. What pledge in the puja to
Guru Dev are you referring to???
> Source:
>
> TM teachers must sign an oath which, in part, states: "It is my fortune,
> Guru Dev [the Maharishi's dead master], that I have been accepted to serve
> the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God ... and I promise on your
> altar, Guru Dev, ..."
> http://www.city-net.com/~dkrieger/Latex2HTML/flyer2/flyer2.html
Sorry Tex. I've never heard of it.
Richard Cliche
all Headaches one day? Forgive him, for he knows not what he does.
Stu
wrote on 7/31/02 12:44 PM:
>
> No because the English meaning of the word "amen" is either to express
> solemn ratification or hearty approval. On the other hand the mantras have
> NO English meaning. Thus it requires one to find out what the meaning is in
> India.
>
As you would need to find out the mantra's "meaning" by digging about in
tantric superstition.
>>
>> This is all in the realm of Tantric yoga that is quite different from the
>> yoga taught by His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
>
> ?
Perhaps you should read a bit about the religions of the East before you
make arguments about that which you know nothing.
>
>>
>>> And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
>>> am also at a loss.
>>>
>> There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic leader
>> His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It is
>> clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books, it
> is
>> written all over the WEB site.
>
> Yet it is denied, here on this newsgroup by their attorney as well as TM
> teachers, and is denied when people ask about it in their intro lectures.
> What gives? Fraud?
No a point of view that separates "spirituality" from "religion". I donšt
draw a line between the two like they do.
>
>>
>> However it is possible to learn the technique of TM, and practice it for
>> many years without getting involved with their beliefs.
>
> Yes if you were to use the mantra "mike"
No. You are just making that up. Somehow you practiced without turning
into a raghead. I know many people that practice TM without the
accompanying philosophy.
>
>>
>> In fact I don't remember there being any form of coercion to get one to
>> pursue the Meheshian Philosophy (Joe's term). It pretty much out there
> for
>> the taking if you care.
>
> Stu- do you believe in Karma and reincarnation?
Karma means action. Yes I believe that there are actions. I do not believe
in reincarnation. I pretty much take the death thing as an unknown until
the time comes, then I will find out.
--
~Stu
Stu
joh...@biohard.com.br wrote on 7/31/02 2:19 PM:
> The point of all of this is *only* to point out that the TM mantras
> are not 'meaningless sounds'. It appears that some TMers are *desparate*
> to stick with the idea that TM is simply a mechanical technique (which
> it is)
Okay so far.
>and strictly devoid of any religious or spiritual content (which
> it obviously isn't).
In repeating this meaningless mantra what is the religious or spiritual
content? You can make an argument that the TMO infuses "religious or
spiritual content" into much of their rhetoric. But even if you were to
take the Tantic meaning of the mantras as part of TM's teaching, it is
clearly content left behind in practicing the technique.
Note that the Tantric descriptions of chakras (a cornerstone to tantric
meditation techniques) is not mentioned at all my His Holiness the Maharishi
Mahesh Yogi.
--
~Stu
P Duff
Better, he'll wake up w/ the mother who gives all headaches.
That'll learn 'im.
P Duff
will...@yahoo.com
>> The results of your admitted drug use are showing Tex.
John - Why can't you stick to the subject of your own thread? This is
mis-direction. and a cheap shot. Depends on what you mean by 'drug', which
you didn't define. So, that makes your reply not only mis-direction, but
also a lie. In fact, you don't know what substances I use, do you? You
should apologize for attempting to chracterize my posts as the result of
drug use in order to avoid a fair debate. Others have been sued for less in
the courts. Apparently, Joe Kellet was correct on this one: you are very
highly suggestible. But, I am very interested in mycology and the use of
magical herbs in the ancient world for religious purposes. Apparently, it
was very widespread: Indians, Hebrews, Christians, and Muslims. According to
the Hebrew Bible, we were given by God Jehovah every herb that grows on the
face of the earth to use for meat. Do you deny that the Bible says this?
For the record: I adopted a macrobiotic diet in 1968, and graduated to
Ayer-Veda in 1973. Since then, I've been avoiding all recreational
substances such as tobacco, alcohol, and caffiene. But, some folks think
vitamins are 'drugs', which according to the FDA are classed as 'foods'. So,
you go figure. Anything that is assimilated into the body could be termed a
'drug'.
>> Since you claimed that you were "born enlightened" and
>> somehow forgot your "enlightenment"...
Depends on what you mean by 'enlightened'. In the Hebrew Bible it is stated
that God Jehovah said "Let there be Light." I suppose you interpret this as
meaning "sunlight", but apparently God Jehovah created an "enlightened man"
after He created sunlight. In this sense everyone is 'enlightened' through
ordinary sunlight AND is imbued with another kind of 'light' which brings
'knowledge'. So, you just spammed on yourself bigtime with your juvenile
remarks. In the context of my statement, everyone is born 'enlightened'.
However, what I was referring to was the Buddhist notion of 'enlightened' by
virtue of being endowed with a human body-mind. I'm surprised that you are
not familiar with this concept; it's common knowledge to most seekers,
adepts, and religious scholars. The idea is very nicely explained in Houston
Smith's classic book entitled "The Religions of Man" which I have cited in
many of my posts. You don't seem to know very much about comparative
religions. You might consider getting a education before you try to come off
as some kind of religious 'savant' here.
>> ...and then took drugs with a fictional shaman drug dealer
>> to get "enlightened" again - your extensive verbosity has
>> little credibility.
You are lying, again; I never claimed to have been 'taking drugs' with a
'shaman' in order to 'get enlightened' again. You're misquoting me. What I
said was that I was "slipped a magic mushroom in my taco back in '71",
apparently a common occurance in those days. Maybe old Don Juan and Carlos
felt I needed to wake up again.
However, this is beside the point. In fact the whole of 'yogic' endeavors is
apparently the attempt by adepts to re-experience 'drug' induced ecstasy, a
technique which was lost long ago. According to my calculations the exact
nature of 'Soma', i.e. the identification of Amanita Muscaria fungus in the
Vedas, was lost even before the Vedic people settled in North India, at
which time 'substitues' were used instead. In 1500 BCE probably less that
100 Brahmins knew the exact nature of the 'Soma' plant. That knowledge has
been lost, and ever since then yogins have attempted, by other means, to
recapture the ecstasy of awakening knowledge.
Apparently, the ingestion of the 'magic mushroom' was very widespread in
antiquity. In the Hebrew myth of the Creation we find Adan and Eve in a
'garden' where they 'eat' a magical 'fruit' which grows under a certain
tree, and by it's ingestion they gained the 'knowledge of good and evil'. Is
it just a coincidence that the Chrtistian ritual of 'communion' involves the
ingestion of a 'wafer' along with the 'juice' of the vine? I think not.
Also, you might consider just why some folks still arrange gifts wrapped in
red and white, and place them under a pine tree on December 25. The Amanita
Muscaria is red-topped with little white spots, and only grows under pine or
cedar trees.
In addition it has been demonstrated that many names and words used in the
Bible are pun names on the Fly Agaric (Amanita). Example: Boeanerges = Sons
of Thunder = magic mushroom in the Hebrew, Akkadian, Babylonian and Sumerian
language. Note: If even only ONE word of the Bible can be shown to refer to
the mushroom cult then I have made my case; if anyone can demonstrate a
'coverup' then you Sir, are in deep trouble with your faith. I believe that
this hypothosis has been demonstrated by R. Gordon Wasson and John Allegro.
>> It is especially offensive to sincere seekers who practise TM
>> since Maharishi has always been totally against drug use as a
>> means to enlightenment.
You are painting with a very large brush. Excuse me you just spammed on
yourself again. The Maharsihi has more 'drugs' for sale that Carter had
little liver pills. Again, you didn't define 'drugs', so by your logic
virtually everybody on the planet takes 'drugs' either illegaly, by
prescription, in their food, in the air, and for relaxation. Millions of
people in fact do ingest 'drugs' such as alcolol, caffiene, and tobacco. But
millions of others take aspirin and other OTC substances on a regular basis.
Are vitamins and food supplements drugs?
>> It's no wonder that your fellow TMers feel sorry for you
>> and think that you're missing a few marbles.
I don't have any 'fellow TMers', whatever that is, I only know people. I
came here to get in touch with some of my old meditating buddies, not to
debate the obviouis with the likes of you. But now that I've been
corresponding on this forum it seems as a great way to get it straight in my
own mind just what the mechanics of TM are. Hey! While you were spouting one
liners on alt.mormon.religion I wrote a whole book! I think you're jealous
John.
>> Does your girlfriend Rita do drugs too?
This kind of personal attack is getting to be a pattern with you. In a
previous post you denigrated my 'relatives'. What's up with you and all
these personal attacks?
>> Maybe you should both sign up for counseling.
You don't even know Rita, so how would know if she needs 'counseling'? You
are pathetic, Sir.
>> You claim to support Maharishi and TM.
I never made this claim; you made that up. I just meditate twice a day and I
can smell a fart in a car.
>> Does yogic flying neutralize the drug effects?
Yes. You would not know anything about 'yogic flying' because you got kicked
out of the TMO long before the TM-Sidhi program was offered. According to
your report you were intitated in Las Vegas, attended Humbolt Guides Course,
became a teach of TM at Estes Park, and you got fired just after the
Majorrca Course. That's three uears John, not the twenty five you claim.
And, just how diod you intitate over '5000' people in the short space of
three years?
>> When was the last time you got "loaded" Tex?
I already stated that I ate a magic mushroom in 1971, and that I haven't
taken any drugs since. Maybe you just want to avoid a fair debate. Maybe
that's why you never respond to any of the points I make. Maybe you're just
ignorant too.
>> Maybe 'that's' the way to enlightenment for you.
Maybe. But it seems that was the way the Vedic authors got enlightened.
Almost the whole of Mandal IX of the Rig Veda says so. In fact, G. Gordon
Wasson has stated that the 'Soma sacrifice' was the primary rite of the
Vedic Civilization. In addition it's obvious even to a causual reader the
the ancient Hebres got 'loaded' on 'Manna' which was a ergot substance
derived from rye bread. Not for nothing did the Hebrews have a 'showbread'
aging just oputside the tabernacle. Jesus of Nazareth drank wine to relax
and so do millions of other folks. It's obvious to me that you are very
confused on these issues. Millions of ancient adepts took drugs in order to
get enlightened. Adam and Eve ate 'magic fruit' and gained the knowledge of
good and evil. Thousands, if not millions, of sadhus in India treat Cannibis
sativa as a sacrement, just like the Muslims smoke hashish. And millions of
Indians dip snuff and chew betal nut. Are they taking 'drugs'? What 'drugs'
do you consume John? Brazilian beer perhaps?
>> Do you forget your 'meaningless' mantra when you're
>> stoned on drugs?
I don't take 'drugs' by my definition. But, anthing which is assimilated
into the human body could be considered to be a 'drug'. Lot's of people
around love iced tea.
>> Maybe that's why some people think that you have
>> something to offer.
They do?
>> Go figure.
Yes, I will go figure. I will figure that you broke your word to Maharsihi
and to Guru Dev, to your parents, your faith, and to both your former wives,
and to yourself. Now you've broken your word to me, because you admitted
that you posted a scurrilous remark concerning on my relatives, you made a
deal to apologize and you didn't. You also didn't apolgize to this newsgroup
for your anti-semitic and racist remarks concerning the Jewish people.
So, John I'm sorry if anything I ever said offends you. But I'm only
speaking the sweet truth. Get used to or move on. I asked you not to feed
it.
<snip>
Judy Stein
> in article ukgfhvt...@corp.supernews.com, Petrus at NOS...@NOWAY.NOWHERE
> wrote on 7/31/02 12:44 PM:
> >> There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic leader
> >> His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It is
> >> clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books, it
> >> is written all over the WEB site.
> >
> > Yet it is denied, here on this newsgroup by their attorney as well as TM
> > teachers, and is denied when people ask about it in their intro lectures.
> > What gives? Fraud?
>
> No a point of view that separates "spirituality" from "religion". I donšt
> draw a line between the two like they do.
It's a useful distinction, though, one that can
reduce misunderstandings.
"Spirituality" is a very broad term that
encompasses specific sets of sectarian
beliefs about God (or gods); generic beliefs
that God exists and that it would be a good
idea for human beans to somehow align themselves
with God (or gods); and even beliefs that
*deny* God's existence altogether and venerate
instead higher human values (love, peace, truth,
trust, etc.).
The term "religion" encompasses the first of
these and virtually always excludes the third.
The second category is the iffy one. TM
certainly falls into it, but if you want to
call TM "religious" on this basis, you need
to make it clear you *don't* mean the first
category.
Any time you use the term "a religion," it
refers to the first category--a specific
sectarian set of beliefs to which one must
assent in order to consider oneself a member.
The term "religious teaching" could be either
category one or category two, meaning either
the teachings of a specific religion or
teachings that are religious in the second
sense, i.e., generically about God or gods.
Then, of course, there's the issue of whether
"God" is really *a supernatural being* or simply
a metaphor for the purely natural unmanifest
Source of the manifest universe, i.e., Beingness.
In which case the distinction between "religious"
and "secular" disappears altogether, and even
the term "spirituality" tends to lose its meaning,
in the sense that there is nothing which is *not*
"spiritual," i.e., nothing that is not about
unmanifest Beingness and Its manifestations.
But if you don't want to get into that can of
worms, you're really better off using "spiritual"
rather than "religious" when characterizing TM.
Petrus
"Stu" <nos...@no.spam> wrote in message
> in article ukgfhvt...@corp.supernews.com, Petrus at
NOS...@NOWAY.NOWHERE
> wrote on 7/31/02 12:44 PM:
>
>
> >
> > No because the English meaning of the word "amen" is either to express
> > solemn ratification or hearty approval. On the other hand the mantras
have
> > NO English meaning. Thus it requires one to find out what the meaning
is in
> > India.
> >
> As you would need to find out the mantra's "meaning" by digging about in
> tantric superstition.
There are many Hindu sites that will give you the answer.
> >>
> >> This is all in the realm of Tantric yoga that is quite different from
the
> >> yoga taught by His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
> >
> > ?
> Perhaps you should read a bit about the religions of the East before you
> make arguments about that which you know nothing.
But you claim it not to be a religion, (some posts in the past to newbies)
eventhough in the past you have made the claim that TM to you is a religion.
What will it be today? And why did it change?
> >
> >>
> >>> And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
> >>> am also at a loss.
> >>>
> >> There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic
leader
> >> His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It
is
> >> clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books,
it
> > is
> >> written all over the WEB site.
> >
> > Yet it is denied, here on this newsgroup by their attorney as well as TM
> > teachers, and is denied when people ask about it in their intro
lectures.
> > What gives? Fraud?
>
> No a point of view that separates "spirituality" from "religion". I donšt
> draw a line between the two like they do.
The definition of religion is very clear. I quoted it many times.
> >
> >>
> >> However it is possible to learn the technique of TM, and practice it
for
> >> many years without getting involved with their beliefs.
> >
> > Yes if you were to use the mantra "mike"
>
> No. You are just making that up.
That is what your beloved MMY says. Should I not take him for his word?
> Somehow you practiced without turning
> into a raghead.
Incorrect. I did fall prey to the Hindu beliefs about god, karma and
reincarnation just as I suppose TM pulled you away from Judaism.
> I know many people that practice TM without the
> accompanying philosophy.
I wonder...
> >
> >>
> >> In fact I don't remember there being any form of coercion to get one to
> >> pursue the Meheshian Philosophy (Joe's term). It pretty much out there
> > for
> >> the taking if you care.
> >
> > Stu- do you believe in Karma and reincarnation?
>
> Karma means action. Yes I believe that there are actions. I do not
believe
> in reincarnation. I pretty much take the death thing as an unknown until
> the time comes, then I will find out.
Might I suggest it be too late then?
Stu
in article uklotpa...@corp.supernews.com, Petrus at NOS...@NOWAY.NOWHERE
wrote on 8/2/02 12:55 PM:
>
> "Stu" <nos...@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:B96DFB57.118E0%nos...@no.spam...
>> in article ukgfhvt...@corp.supernews.com, Petrus at
> NOS...@NOWAY.NOWHERE
>> wrote on 7/31/02 12:44 PM:
[snip for boredom]
>> Perhaps you should read a bit about the religions of the East before you
>> make arguments about that which you know nothing.
>
> But you claim it not to be a religion, (some posts in the past to newbies)
> eventhough in the past you have made the claim that TM to you is a religion.
> What will it be today? And why did it change?
I am a chameleon at heart. The definition of religion versus spiritual
movement is open enough one can change it for the circumstance.
Besides TM is only a religion for those who want it to be. I maintain that
one could practice it and be an atheist or what ever is pleased.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> And if they think that TM is devoid of religion, I
>>>>> am also at a loss.
>>>>>
>>>> There is no question that the cult of TM as run by the charismatic
> leader
>>>> His Holiness the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is centered around religion. It
> is
>>>> clear in their introductory meetings, it is spelled out in the books,
> it
>>> is
>>>> written all over the WEB site.
>>>
>>> Yet it is denied, here on this newsgroup by their attorney as well as TM
>>> teachers, and is denied when people ask about it in their intro
> lectures.
>>> What gives? Fraud?
>>
>> No a point of view that separates "spirituality" from "religion". I donšt
>> draw a line between the two like they do.
>
> The definition of religion is very clear. I quoted it many times.
Your definition sucks. You should know that by now. Nobody is buying it.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> However it is possible to learn the technique of TM, and practice it
> for
>>>> many years without getting involved with their beliefs.
>>>
>>> Yes if you were to use the mantra "mike"
>>
>> No. You are just making that up.
>
> That is what your beloved MMY says. Should I not take him for his word?
>
>> Somehow you practiced without turning
>> into a raghead.
>
> Incorrect. I did fall prey to the Hindu beliefs about god, karma and
> reincarnation
You are easily duped. The proof of it is that your a xtian now. What will
you be into next?
I had a pal that was born again, then he got heavily into golf. The last I
heard he found himself and is happily going to dominatrix parlors and doing
the leather and chains thing.
Some people just need some myth to lean on.
> just as I suppose TM pulled you away from Judaism.
No, I won't bore you with my sad story, but Judaism pulled me away from
Judaism. And really with no loss. In case you haven't guessed I don't give
a great deal of credence to any mythology.
>
>> I know many people that practice TM without the
>> accompanying philosophy.
>
> I wonder...
Wonder if you will. There are meditating Clergy out there. I can point you
to books - but I really don't want to take the time to research a list for
you to ignore.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In fact I don't remember there being any form of coercion to get one to
>>>> pursue the Meheshian Philosophy (Joe's term). It pretty much out there
>>> for
>>>> the taking if you care.
>>>
>>> Stu- do you believe in Karma and reincarnation?
>>
>> Karma means action. Yes I believe that there are actions. I do not
> believe
>> in reincarnation. I pretty much take the death thing as an unknown until
>> the time comes, then I will find out.
>
> Might I suggest it be too late then?
C'est la vie. Better late then never. Like to take things as they come.
Its a big universe out there, maybe the biggest.*
--
~Stu
*Kilgore Trout
ColdBluICE
> > ColdBluICE wrote:
> > ...his *weird* lil political party (the Ajay Bharat Party)
> > failed miserably in the polls in recent elections (2000) in Jalapur..
>
> Perino - But, the Maharsihi still has the RSS!
- Hindu Fanatic RSS Party Threatens Muslims in India
Updated on 2002-08-09 14:00:37
ISLAMABAD, August 09 (PNS):
People of villages and cities get ready and celebrate next Holi with
the corpses of Muslims, says Hindu extremist Party RSS in a pamphlet
distributed in Indian state of Gujarat.
"There is still time for you to go to Pakistan if you want to. We do
not want to leave a single Muslim alive in Gujarat."
The timing of the pamphlets in the city was eerie. They were just in
time before the occurrence of Godhra incident, where in a train
carrying Hindu pilgrims was set ablaze.
A forensic report later disclosed that the fire started from within
but the incident led to the most gruesome incidents of mass murders
and killings of more than 5000 Muslims, rape of around 1000 girls and
women, destruction of 26,200 houses and loot and plunder of 21,100
shops.
-source- http://www.paknews.com/flash.php?id=4&date1=2002-08-09
>
> "ColdBluICE" <ColdB...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cd5299c0.02080...@posting.google.com...
> > > law...@west.of.pecos. wrote:
> > > > Mike Doughney wrote:
>
> > > : > law...@west.of.pecos. wrote:
> > > : > You think it
> > > : > is a complete and accurate list on trancenut?
>
> > > : A "complete and accurate" printed list of mantras doesn't exist and
> > > : probably can't exist, considering that every such list is dependent on
> > > : the imprecise memory of those trained as teachers, and the variations
> > > : in what was taught from year to year. These basic limitations aren't
> > > : the fault of any website author.
> > >
> > > I am not interested enough to look, but I believe the list is
> represented
> > > to be *the* list. That wasn't my point anyway.
> >
> > -What would be your point Lawman?
> >
> > Afterall, could you make any relevant point?
> > Especially after all your *rants* of months past claiming-, 'Lil
> > MishMashi Mahesh is doing very well in India.'
> >
> > When, in fact- his *weird* lil political party (the Ajay Bharat Party)
> > failed miserably in the polls in recent elections (2000)in Jalapur,
> > Madhya Pradesh. Even after shamless attempts to buy votes with
> > promises of millions of rupees (if his candidates were elected).
> > Facts are Lawman:
> > 1). *lil MishMashi Mahesh could not even pay the Indian people to buy
> > "tm"*!
> >